The Perilous Fight with Dr. Ben Carson

Hey everybody, today on The Charlie Kirk Show, Dr. Ben Carson. What a great man he is.

I'll tell you, I loved this conversation. He's such a sweet Christian man. Really love him.

And he's become a friend. He's done a lot with Turning Point USA, TPUSA.com. Enjoy this conversation with Dr. Ben Carson and go purchase his new book, The Perilous Fight.

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We bash our leaders a lot. If we had more leaders like Dr. Ben Carson, our country would be in a much better place. Dr. Carson joins us for this hour, author of The Perilous Fight, overcoming our culture's war on the American family.

Lots to discuss. Dr. Carson, welcome back to the program. Thank you, Charlie. It's always good to be with you. Dr. Carson, I just want to say you served through the whole Trump administration. You did a wonderful job. There was no controversy.

There was never any issues at all. I wish we had 19 cabinet secretaries like that. And you're just a wonderful man and honored to call you a friend. As a side note, you've also been selling out arenas and rooms at Turning Point USA on campus, doing our campus deal with the Cornerstone Institute. But first, tell us about your book, Dr. Carson. Well, you know, recognizing that our country was moving in a very dark direction, I was quite concerned. And I thought about who our enemies are and what they want to do. They'd like to overcome our country and impose their Marxist ideology. However, we're much too strong to be overcome militarily. We can, however, be overcome from within. Dividing us, divide and conquer is their theory, and it works extremely well. And what do you have to really get to?

You have to get to the foundation. What is the foundation of our strength, of our values and our principles? It is the family, the very thing that's been under attack so much. And interestingly enough, you go back to the congressional record, January 10, 1963, and look at the 45 goals of communism in this country. And you see everything that's happening today, including the student rioting, the taking over of the public school system, taking over of the media, Hollywood, infiltrating all of our important media so you can influence the thinking of the people in America.

And it's working. And unless people actually recognize what's happening to them, they'll continue to be manipulated into believing that we're all each other's enemies. We're not each other's enemies.

I have an acrostic that I use, W-A-N-E. We are not enemies. But they've divided us on the basis of race, age, income, gender, religion, political affiliation. And they made us think that we're enemies so that we can fight each other and destroy ourselves while they sit there and laugh and reap the benefits of the spoils of that war. We're smarter than that.

This is America. And we have to fortify ourselves. The family, the whole formation of families has fallen to the wayside.

Our birth rates are incredibly small. By the way, congratulations. I understand you have a new Kirk. Thank you.

That's right. We're doing our best, Dr. Carson, to reverse the fertility crisis in the West. We need a lot more. So keep going.

I don't know if you know Terry Shirley, American principal. Oh yeah. He's got what, seven or eight now? He's got seven now.

He's just had another one. But, you know, the families are not forming. When they do form, you know, we have the no-fault divorce and all these things that rapidly disintegrate the families. We have the television shows, particularly the sitcoms, making the men seem like some kind of adult. And the woman always has to come and figure out how to clean the mess up.

The men might not even be necessary. You saw what happened to the Kansas City football player who just mentioned traditional families and traditional values. And he was just blistered for saying that. And a lot of people believe it, but they're afraid to say anything.

They'd rather stand in the corner and look at their shoes and hope no one calls them a nasty name. This is what we have to get over. And this is something that I emphasize in the book. Unless you're willing to stand up for what you believe in, you're going to lose in the long run. And we all have influence. We all have shares of influence.

And even if we are persecuted, what is that against the backdrop of eternity? That's exactly right. So, Dr. Carson, I want to get into some of the numbers here. In the book, you dive into the data of exactly the breakdown of the family, the effects on our society. So give us some of the hard numbers and hard data. Well, when you look at what happens to children, for instance, who are raised in a traditional two-parent family, the number of people involved in the juvenile justice and adult justice system is double for those who come from non-traditional families.

Think about that. The number of who are successful are double when they grow up in a traditional family. You know, those are very substantial statistical markers.

And what we have to really start doing when we have these discussions is actually putting the facts on the table. You know, what percentage of people from this group versus what percentage of people from this group are successful? What about mental illness and suicide? Same kind of thing, almost double the rate when they come from non-traditional families. Now, this is not to say that non-traditional families can't be successful. I came from a non-traditional family. You know, my parents were divorced early on, and I had just the most amazing mother anybody could imagine. I think if everybody had my mother, we'd have no problems. But that's not the case, obviously. And we need to ask ourselves, why is it that the model that God established for the family works so well? And why is it that it doesn't work when we destroy that model? Those are things that are put on the table when you have an intelligent discussion, as opposed to one that is just driven by ideology.

Also, in terms of where do the values come from? Where do people get their values? You learn in your family that there are other people beside yourself. And you learn how to respect other people's opinions. You learn how to respect other people's property. You learn the difference between right and the wrong. You understand that there is a right and a wrong, not your right and my right, and your wrong and my wrong, not your truth and my truth. There is the truth. Those are the kinds of things that fortify you against the kind of propaganda that you're going to be facing when you go out into the world, when you go out to colleges and universities.

And we're seeing the fruits of that right now. So many of those young people totally not grounded. And it's sort of like a leaf blowing in the wind, whichever direction the wind is blowing. That's the way that they go without having any idea what they're protesting about, without realizing the absolute savagery and brutality of Hamas.

They're holding up their flags. And it's almost incomprehensible. But this is what happens when people are indoctrinated. And that's why the Marxists try so hard to get into our schools early on and to influence their children early on. As Vladimir Lenin said, give me your children to teach for four years and the seed that I sow will never be uprooted. And it's absolutely true.

You can't undo a lot of stuff. So we have to be very aggressive in terms of making sure that we teach our children the right things. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't talk about the bad things that have happened in America. There's good, there's bad, and there's ugly.

But there's a heck of a lot more good than there is bad and ugly. So we don't have to just sit there and let the critical race theory and the 1619 people go unopposed into our schools. So, Dr. Carson, why do you think the fertility rates have gone down so dramatically in the West? Well, for one thing, people aren't getting married. And when they do get married, they're getting married much later at a time when they're not quite as fertile as they might have been earlier. And also, singlehood versus motherhood is being pushed by Hollywood and the general media. It's a good thing. You don't need to be married. You don't need to have babies.

In fact, that could harm the environment. We have just crazy stuff being propagated throughout our society. And I think people are falling victim to it, unfortunately. But there is always hope. And what we have to do is not give up and make sure that we continue to push the narrative of what a wonderful thing it is to, in fact, have a family. You know, you have children, what an incredible joy it is when you go home and you see them and they're so excited to see you and you get a chance to instill into them some of the real values and principles that made this into a great nation. That's what it's all about. And unfortunately, just last week, when the Kansas City kicker, but can I think of his name as?

Butker, Anderson Butker. Just talked about traditional families and how wonderful a privilege it is to have a family and to raise children and to be in unit. And he was just savagely attacked. He didn't say anything about there was anything wrong with women getting college degrees and pursuing a career.

He just talked about how wonderful it is to have the privilege of raising a family. And that is something that is under attack now. And a lot of people are coming to it. And as a result of that, we're not forming those families. We're not having those babies. We're not having babies at a rate sufficient to replace the number of people who are dying. And that's a real problem for society.

Yeah, we are below replacement rates here in the West. And it is very troubling. The Harrison Butker clip was so interesting because he was talking about the privilege and how good it is to have children. Why do you think the media reacted the way they did?

What prevailing viewpoint and cultural sickness makes the entire media ecosystem attack somebody like that? Help me understand that. Well, you know, Marxism is not in favor of the traditional family, particularly the patriarchal family. And in fact, interestingly enough, Black Lives Matter had that up on their website early on.

And then some of us started pointing out that it was there and they took it off their website. Doesn't mean that they took it off of their agenda. They still believe in a different type of society where the children don't necessarily belong with or to the parents, but are part of community property to be cultivated in a way that is beneficial for the community as a whole. That's the way they look at it.

Of course, their definition of what's beneficial is probably a little bit different than our definition of what's beneficial would be. But in communist societies, they absolutely believe that they have a right to the children and to train the children according to their principles and values. I was talking to a young woman from Cambodia.

Well, she's not that young anymore, but when she was 13 years old, that's when the Khmer Rouge came in and took over and imposed communism and took them off to labor camps and separated them from their parents and subjected them to all kinds of propaganda. You know, this is what can be expected from some of the types of governmental systems that want to replace what we have, even though it's been shown time and time again to be a failure. But there's something that's attractive to people when they hear someone saying, we will take care of all of your basic needs, everything from cradle to grave we will take care of.

You won't have to worry about anything. Just give us all the power and we'll take care of you. And people keep succumbing to that. And we have people in this country who are incredibly blessed and don't actually recognize it.

No matter where your ancestors came from, be it England or France or Spain or Nigeria, it doesn't matter. You're probably better off here than you would have been had you been born in those places. And we need to recognize what happens in this country.

This young lady that I was talking about from Cambodia, after five years in a prison camp where they were starved and mistreated, she managed to get to the United States of America, didn't speak a word of English, but recognized that this was a land of opportunity, taught herself English, went to college, got a degree in engineering, became a NASA engineer, subsequently started her own business, was very successful. Those are the kinds of opportunities that exist in a society like ours. Now, unfortunately, some people don't recognize them. And that's one of the reasons that people who come here from the outside frequently do so much better because they come here and it's like you turn them loose in a candy store with an unlimited budget. I mean, they just see all these opportunities that we unfortunately don't see, but they are here.

But that's one of the reasons, again, that you and I fight so that we can maintain those opportunities. Whether people see them or not, we need to maintain them because that's why this is such a desirable place to be. And if we're such a bad place, why are all these people trying to get in here? You know, there is obviously if we're so bad, if we're so bad, why won't the people who hate it, why do they refuse to leave? Even though they promise to leave, they said, if Trump wins, I'm leaving the country. How many of those people actually they're not going anywhere. They know better.

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They're terrific. Go to CharlieKirk.com. Click on the preborn banner. So you talk about this in the book and also your work, Dr. Carson. How do we best then teach gratitude to an ungrateful generation? Well, the first thing we have to do is not succumb to what we're told from the time that you're a child. And that is there are two things that you're not supposed to discuss in public, politics and religion. Those are the exact things we need to be talking about because the leftists do their best work in the dark. They don't want to be seen what they're doing. They don't want people talking about what they're doing.

Just quietly sit there and allow your whole life and your whole environment to be changed. So we need to be willing to engage in these conversations, particularly with our young people. You know, one of the problems and I talk about this in the book is our young people spend an inordinate amount of time on social media and with their electronic devices. Far more time than they spend with the family. So which influences do you think are going to be the greatest?

You don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure that out. And what we need to do, obviously, is spend time with our family and cultivate those relationships. You know, when my kids were growing up, we made a big deal about, you know, having dinner together. And each one of the boys was required to bring a fact to the table that no one else was likely to know. Which means they had to do some research. And everybody loved it. It was so much fun, you know, learning what other people's facts were.

And it was really cool when you could say, I already know that and furthermore. But those kinds of things build good family relationships. But we have to prioritize our families. That's so key in a society that's as busy as ours. I was extremely busy as a young attending neurosurgeon working from five in the morning to nine at night most days. And there wouldn't have been a whole lot of time to interact with my family if I didn't make it a priority. But I was also giving a lot of speeches traveling around the world. I made the requirement that my family go with me every place I went. So the kids have frequent flyer cards for every airline.

They travel all over the world. We have a lot of quality time together. Dr. Carson, continue please. You were talking about how you made time, you carved out time, you made it a priority to spend time with your children. And also just remind our audience, you were in a very stressful, time-intensive, high-stakes job.

I mean, you were literally doing brain surgery that was unprecedented frontier work. So please tell us, you were one of the more busy people on the planet, yet you made it a priority, please. And you have to make it a priority. You can always find a way if it's a will there. And I knew that I wasn't going to be able to carve out a lot of time in my clinical schedule. But when I'm on the road, I have a lot of time. So that's why I made the requirement that my family come with me. And we had a blast. If I hadn't done that, the kids would have been saying, Mommy, that strange guy was here again last night.

Who is he? And that happens too often with professional people. And people who just have intensive work schedules. We can change it. We must change it. The other thing that I emphasize in the book is faith. You know, what happened to faith in this country? Our founding document, the Declaration of Independence, talks about certain inalienable rights given to us by our Creator, aka God.

Think about that. Think about the fact that every coin in your pocket, every bill in your wallet says, In God we trust. The Pledge of Allegiance says we're one nation under God. What happened to us? Well, you know, back in 1958, a lawsuit was brought against a county in Pennsylvania.

Schlemp was the family name. And they were opposing the fact that the Lord's Prayer was said at the beginning of school and Bible verses were read. State tried to accommodate them, said their children didn't have to go through that. But they persisted and went all the way to the Supreme Court.

Five years later, in 1963, the Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional to read the Bible in school and to say prayer to make it a requirement in school. So that was the beginning of the downslide. Then they took all the Ten Commandments off. Used to be in every wall.

Every school had a wall with the Ten Commandments on it. Took it all away. And think about, have we gotten better since that happened? Are schools safer? Do people treat each other better since we got rid of all that stuff? I dare say things have deteriorated significantly.

In fact, in a recent survey, 55 percent of public school teachers said they were considering early retirement because they didn't feel safe in the classroom. Now, think about those things. And we've caused those kinds of things. And that's really the reason that John Adams, our second president, said our Constitution was designed for moral and religious people and is inadequate for the governance of any other.

A lot of people are complaining about the Trump trial that's going on right now with this very biased judge. Well, that's what happens when you have any other, not a moral and religious people. That is exactly right.

That is right. And so, Dr. Carson, absent revival, what can the state or politics, what can we do in the political realm to inculcate a virtuous and moral people? That's a very good question. You know, this country is supposed to be for the people. It's about what concerns us. But it means that people must get involved. You need to run for the school board. You need to at least go to the board meetings and make your voice heard.

You need to run for other local offices. And you also need to ensure election integrity. See, we don't have to accept it when people say the signatures don't have to match on the mail-in ballots. You don't have to accept it when they say you can observe this polling place, but you have to do it from way over there where you can't see what's going on. We don't have to accept it when a thousand ballots come from the same address. You know, there's so many things that are done because we accept them and we don't have to. And just normal, ordinary citizens can get together and they can put pressure on the local officials to make sure that you do things according to the law and not according to some officials' last-minute declaration, which we have allowed to happen. And we're paying the consequences for that.

No, that is right. And it's an interesting thing, Dr. Carson. I'm so glad you brought up the Constitution is holy for a moral and religious people. So if you'll indulge me, I'm going to ask you a provocative question, which is, can the Constitution survive if the people are no longer moral and religious? That's a very good question. I guess it depends on how many of them are no longer moral. That's right.

No. And so that's the question, Dr. Carson. Do you think it requires a majority or a vocal, minoritarian vanguard enough to keep that alive, to keep that idea alive?

I think if, you know, there were only 12, Jesus only had 12 disciples and look what happened with Christianity. So if you're vigorous and you're committed, you can have a profound effect. Everybody needs to recognize that they have a sphere of influence. And it's usually a much bigger sphere than you think. And also people are watching you. They're watching how you live and what you do.

And it makes a big difference on the lives of other people. You know, I remember when I was in Australia, I spent a year in Australia as a senior registrar and I was operating one day and I said to the scrub nurse, give me the bloody forceps. They were all so shocked because in their culture, bloody is a curse word. It's not a curse, it's a curse word.

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Strongcell.com forward slash Charlie. Check it out right now. So Dr. Carson, so many thoughts I have. I want to continue on the book here, The Perilous Fight, Overcoming Our Culture's War on the American Family. I want to take a little bit of a detour here because you mentioned your career. And for those that don't know, Dr. Carson has one of the most impressive and impactful medical careers, a doctor for good. Dr. Carson, as you now look at American healthcare, are you hopeful or are you a little bit, let's just say, pessimistic about the current trajectory of American healthcare? Well, the current trajectory is awful. There's no question about that.

It's not sustainable. So we will have to make a change. The question is, are we going to do it in a logical fashion? You know, we have a system that would be akin to someone coming to a hotel, putting their credit card down, and the clerk saying, we don't need that.

All your expenses are taken care of. And you say, oh, well, give me the room service menu and whatever else I can get. Otherwise, you're saying, is there a McDonald's around? Of course, that can be pretty expensive, too. But there's no responsibility or very little responsibility in the system that we have now. And that creates a lot of problems.

And I think we need to migrate to something where personal responsibility is primary. People have health savings accounts, for instance. And if that health savings account can roll over, it's even more impactful.

You know, if you don't use all of the benefits for one year, it rolls over to the next year and to the next and to the next. And then you also create a system where people can donate money out of their health savings account to members of their family. So if Uncle John is a heavy smoker and has a lot of problems associated with that, his family can help him. But also, his family is going to be real interested in getting him to stop smoking and to lead a more healthful life. So every family that way becomes their own insurance company. You can imagine after a couple of generations of that, you will have enormous amounts of money built up in most families. And that will pretty much take care of anything that comes along. Also, with a system like that, you can have a separate catastrophic insurance policy, but it will be much, much cheaper because all you're dealing with is catastrophic situations.

And how often do those occur? That is well said. And Dr. Carson, it is a tragedy that when I hear what someone now says, well, a medical professional or expert says or doctor says, I now have skepticism. I no longer have the trust that I used to because I grew up in a country where doctors were like you, who were ethical and were virtuous and cared about their patients.

And I just I look at Fauci, for example, I don't get that impression at all from him. This is from a Turning Point USA campus event. A young lady comes up and thanks Dr. Ben Carson for saving her life.

Play cut 70. Together, we were born so you don't miss us a lot. God truly had his hands in this miracle. Not only did we live in Maryland at the time, so we were close to Hopkins. My mom actually worked at Kennedy Krieger Institute and a doctor referred us to you. You walked in the room, you sat with my parents, you listened to their concerns. You examined me and within a few weeks I was on the operating table. You gave me the opportunity to graduate high school, college and start graduate school, play competitive sports, get married, have children. So while none of this was related to politics, I just wanted to say thank you. That's what life is all about. I just I'm so touched by that, Dr. Carson. You're a man of conviction, but you've done something really beautiful in your life. Dr. Carson, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked at our Turning Point USA AMFest event. And you can answer however you want.

Our chat and our email inbox is being flooded. Would you consider being Donald Trump's vice president? Well, I would consider it a privilege to do anything I can to help save this country.

And lots of different capacities, whether that's inside or outside the government. I can assure people that I'm not going to relax. You know, I've given up the whole ideal of retirement and recognize that there be people who preceded us, who sacrificed everything in many cases, including their lives, so that we can have a free and prosperous nation. And that is what I'm dedicated to do. I will say that having worked with President Trump in the past, he is a wonderful person to work with, very supportive, has very good ideals. And philosophically, we're peas in a pod. And, you know, some people say, Charlie, what should we look for in a VP? I said, you know, somebody with steady hands, calm. And I think you've demonstrated that, Dr. Carson. I'm a big fan. In closing here, Dr. Carson, our country is in trouble.

It is sick, if you will. Your book diagnoses it very well. And I want to make sure I repeat it. The perilous fight overcoming our culture's war on the American family. Let me ask you, Dr. Carson, what do you see, what one or two things do you see that give you hope?

Well, you know, when I was running for president, I traveled to every part of America, the biggest cities, the smallest little hamlets. And I discovered that people had common sense, and that gave me hope. But I also discovered that most people did not have courage.

They weren't willing to be canceled or have a possibility of that happening in their lives. That's what has to change. And I see more and more people being willing to stand up these days than I have seen in the past.

And that gives me hope. And I particularly see that in the colleges and universities. The Turning Point USA affairs have been wonderful, the enthusiasm of the young people. I believe that maybe that's where our revival is going to come from, from those young people.

You saw what happened at Auburn University last year and Berea last year. It's amazing the spirit that encompasses those young people. That's what's going to save us. Amen.

I agree completely. Dr. Carson, thank you. We are here for you. Any way we can support you, we want to keep on sending you to campuses. And I want everyone to buy your book and anything we can do with you or alongside of you, we're here for you. And you're also, Dr. Carson, you are speaking prominently at our Turning Point Action People's Convention in Detroit, Michigan, which I believe you were from Detroit.

Am I right, if my memory serves me correctly? That is my hometown. Absolutely.

That is really fitting. I want to thank you for being a patriot. You give me a lot of hope. And I was mentioning you on another broadcast this morning when they were talking about college students.

I said, well, there's one person who didn't go to college and is more intelligent than just about everybody who has and is running a big organization, so you don't necessarily have to have that college degree, but you do have to be intelligent. Thank you. Dr. Carson, God bless you and we'll see you in Detroit.

It'll be a fun homecoming for you. Thanks so much. All right. See you then. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Get involved with Turning Point USA today at TPUSA.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless.