The Final Fulton County Ruling

Hey everybody, breaking news out of Georgia. Can Fannie Willis stay on the case? We dive into it with a subject matter expert.

Also, the electoral math is changing in front of our eyes. Joe Biden tells us his strategy. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Become a member if you want to ask me questions weekly. Be part of an exclusive community and also listen to our episodes, advertiser free, members.charliekirk.com. That is members.charliekirk.com. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

Buckle up everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

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Go to noblegoldinvestments.com. There is breaking news out of Georgia. We want to dive right into it with special guest Brett Tolman, executive director of Right on Crime and former U.S. district attorney. Brett, thank you for joining us on this breaking news day. Help us unpack the details and your reaction to Judge McAfee's ruling.

Charlie, thanks for having me on. It's very important ruling. It is important because it reminds us that they're not all judges are legal savants. What you have in this instance is pretty shocking for those of us who've been in front of these kinds of judges before with these kinds of issues that have been paraded out. You have a district attorney who the judge finds has the appearance of a conflict.

And that's significant because it doesn't matter if it's an actual conflict or it's an appearance of conflict. The law treats them the same. So he makes that finding along with indicating that he believes that they may have compromised themselves on the stand, meaning they may have perjured themselves or lied. He also acknowledges that there may have been amounts of money that inappropriately went to Fannie Willis. So all of that should lead any sound legal mind to the conclusion that the one that should be ruled against is the one that has that high office and that authority, the county attorney. But instead what he does is he indicates that she can stay on the case, but she would have to remove Nate Wade, her lover boyfriend who's also prosecuting the case. It's shocking to see Charlie the the wrangling and the wringing of hands that a judge is doing when it's staring him in the face. You know, not only unethical behavior, but now it appears even criminal behavior that he acknowledges. Yeah, I just it's kind of leaves me speechless.

And there's just so many questions. It's obvious they lied. It's not an appearance. They lied under oath. So I guess lying under oath is cool if you're a prosecutor now.

Is that the message that this judge is sending to the rest of the country? Well, the one thing, you know, you're right, Charlie, but the one thing that really stands out is how bad prosecutors who are compromised are when they're on the stand. She she yelled, she was belligerent. She tried to take back control because they're not used to someone questioning their authority.

And in the end, she she thought so highly of herself and the power that she's wielded that she's willing to lie on the stand. And that needs to be investigated. I hope that the attorney general takes that ruling and uses it as the basis to open an investigation against her.

So what is the process now? Does this open it up for appeals, for challenges? I mean, at the very least, no one and no decent person in Georgia or across the country is going to take what this court does seriously. I mean, after this just multiple weeks of Fannie Willis and on the stand and Nathan Wade, I mean, the judge said this reasonable question that whether the D.A. and her hand selected lead special assistant D.A. testified untruthfully.

Hold on. Reasonable questions. The judge could find the truth of that, though, couldn't he? Couldn't the judge demand back in and like say, hey, let's get this sorted out. Reasonable questions.

Why doesn't he figure it out? Well, he did. Actually, he has enough evidence to conclude that they did lie. It was presented in court.

He allowed the defense team to go into it and to expose that they lied at the very least about when the affair started, which was an important factor because it showed that they were compromised before they launched the case against Donald Trump. So you're absolutely right. It's already been concluded. And when he says questionable, perhaps he's being nice because he's a former donor to her campaign and worked in that office. But the reality is that should be a beacon call for for the attorney general and the state bar of Georgia to investigate both individuals for perjury. Yeah.

And so just can you just riff on this for a second? Because some of our audience might not understand just to even the appearance of impropriety should be enough for dismissal. And we have that. He even acknowledged it in his document.

And we know that it's more than we know that it's more than the appearance. It's the actual factual pattern and reality that they they lied under oath and that they weren't being truthful. And that, by the way, this judge is now effectively normalizing.

Oh, yeah, I got repaid in cash. I mean, you're just it is so it's just so sloppy. It is so obviously untruthful. So what sort of precedent does this set? I mean, I personally believe the American justice system is no longer what it once was. It's the Western legal tradition is now a mockery.

It's a joke. And then one of the most high profile cases in the history of the country. Let's be clear. This is one of the highest profile criminal cases in the history of the United States of America. This judge says it's OK to lie. It's OK to, you know, say you were repaid cash. It's OK to maybe funnel money back to yourself to get belligerent and upset on the stand. What does this say about the status of the American justice system?

Yeah, no question. Charlie, the justice system in this country is broken. You know, it's and it's not not to put the plug in there for for my organization, but I'm executive director.

I'm executive director of Ride on Crime. And our our purpose is to fix the broken justice system in this country and to do so with conservative principles based on data and research and not based on politics, because you're seeing it play out. And you did an excellent job of highlighting just how absurd it is. And we're watching it in multiple cases across the country. But let's back up and look at this particular case. You have a county attorney that has very high ethical standards and high legal standards, not above and beyond just what an ordinary lawyer that appears in that courtroom does.

They have higher standards. So the judge actually finds that there is an appearance of conflict, which the law doesn't require him to find actual conflict. The law requires that if you have either an actual conflict or you have an appearance of conflict, then you have to remove the individual. They have to remove. They should first remove themselves.

But Fannie wasn't going to do that. Then if they don't, the court removes them and a different county or the attorney general would would then take the case, review it and then decide if they wanted to pursue it. But that didn't happen here because judges in this country are willing to set aside the law and facts in order to achieve a political result rather rather than what the legal result should be. And that is is is when your your justice system fails.

Can you can you just elaborate more? This judge has donated to Fannie Willis. How is that not a conflict of interest? Who oversees the judge?

I mean, I don't even know the answer to this question. Is there an appellate process? So we have judges that are so friendly with the D.A.

that they can contribute to their campaigns. How is that legal? Yeah, it's it's a perfect example of the public not realizing that we have ceded power to judges and prosecutors in this country without accountability and without transparency. So you take the recusal of a judge. That decision rests with the judge and only the judge. And so, you know, that that needs to be a policy that's like Pharaoh didn't even have that kind of power. I mean, so there's like no check and balance on a judge that oversees a proceeding of a former president.

That's correct. That that is one of the areas that we need accountability. There needs to be transparency.

You need to be able to appeal a recusal request of a judge. And so we're stuck as a as a country because we have given all that power without thinking through the dynamics of potential abuse. And how we survive so long is we did have, you know, well-meaning people, good intentioned people that filled those positions. And for the most part, it was very exceptional if someone abused their positions. But that's not the case anymore.

We are not putting exceptional people with high, high moral and ethical ethical standards in these positions. And now the abuse is much more apparent. Plug your organization again, Brett, please. Quickly. It's right on crime dot com.

And we are a conservative organization that seeks to fix the justice system. Very good. Brett, thank you so much. Thanks for taking the time today. Thank you. Thank you, Charlie.

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That is 888-596-0155 or visit strongcell.com forward slash Charlie. So yesterday we were off the program. Thank you, producer Andrew, for hosting. It's going to happen just a couple more times this spring where we do these during the day campus events, which honestly reach even more people. And we reach millions of people online. And it's just amazing to be able to have these in-depth conversations. The evening events are terrific. We're going to keep doing those. We have one coming up on Monday.

But the ones during the day are just, they're really breathtaking. And let's put 130 up on screen. We used to get 30 or 40, maybe 50 people that would come. Now we're getting 300, 400, 500 people and thousands of students, if you count all the pass or revise, because kids go to class and they come and they listen, they go.

And so we call this the change my mind kind of programming. And that's why I have to take off radio every so often because they happen during the day, which is most of the kind of traffic between 12 and two. Kids are going from classes, they're getting lunch, they're hanging out on campus, all sorts of good stuff there. And so first, just from the attendance, look at that, hundreds and hundreds of students.

This is at Cal State Fullerton, of all places. And so, you know, I talk for over two hours. We had some great dialogues, some great discussions, some disagreement. And I go and I start to, you know, take pictures, everybody, and I start to all of a sudden notice like, wow, 60 or 70 percent of the people that are coming up for pictures are Latino, Hispanic, Vietnamese. And, I mean, it was overwhelming.

Overwhelming. I'm talking about, it was hard to find a white person that wanted to come up and take a picture. I mean, there were a couple people, but it was a majority-minority support crowd. And their enthusiasm and their energy, I'm talking about Black and South Asian and Cambodian and specifically Nicaraguan and Mexican and Honduran and I speak very bluntly about the immigration issue. In fact, one of the Honduran Nicaraguan Americans, formerly of those countries, he said, look, my family came here legally. Number one, he says, I don't like when people loop me into the category of these illegal squatter jumpers. He used that word.

I said, what are the terms? I said, wow. He said, these people come in, they want all these benefits.

They cut in line. My family came here the right way. I resent them.

Wow. I don't know if that's a majority opinion, but the New York Times has now come out. Latinos shifting toward Trump, land at the center of the 2024 campaign. This is poll after poll. This is data set after data set, coupled with my on the ground, anecdotal experience that there is something profound happening in the Hispanic community. This could be seismic.

This could this could change the entire game. Let me read from The New York Times. Trump has found new support among Latinos who work in law enforcement around along the Mexican border. Cuban Americans in Florida, averse to policies they view as approaching socialism. Evangelical Christians attracted to Christian nationalism and second and third generation U.S. born Latinos who are more likely to identify with and vote like their white peers. I got to tell you, everything that the Koch brothers, everything that the Chamber of Commerce, that the Karl Rove's and the moderate Republicans told us about this group of voters is wrong. They said you have to go weak on immigration. You have to go weak on social social issues and they're going to come your way.

It's not that. They're more conservative than the upper middle class whites. They they want stability. You want to know the number one thing that I hear from Latino voters. They say we come from destabilized countries. We came to America because it was a stable country. One of the individuals I spoke to yesterday said if America destabilizes, that will pave the way for a Marxist revolution.

It's very insightful. Latino voters are far more aware of what happens when you embrace policies that are insane because they come from countries that are the ones that have been championing these insane policies for the last 30 or 40 years. The riots in 2020, we call it Floyd-a-palooza, were a lot closer to their homes than white liberals. Bad economic policies hit them immediately.

Inflation hits them immediately. Immigration and the massive invasion of our country. And I got to tell you, building the wall and deporting foreigners is a issue with Latinos, with Hispanics. The fight for the presidency has expanded in recent elections from battlegrounds in the Rust Belt to the Sun Belt. Joe Biden relied on victories in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada to win in 2020. This year, both parties are investing heavily in those states to persuade the large number of Hispanic voters they believe are up for grabs. If this is even a little bit true and Donald Trump does three or four points better, by the way, polling is showing he's doing 10 points better, then Arizona is going to be just fine. It's going to all be about the Rust Belt. And we're going to focus on that later in the hour because Joe Biden leaked a story yesterday through Bloomberg. He's going to go for, he's actually going to go for states that are some of the whitest battleground states. Let me say that again. Joe Biden is going to go all in on the whiter states and ignore the more diverse states.

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Schedule your free confidential consultation. Visit TNUSA.com slash Charlie, TNUSA.com slash Charlie. Joining us now is Vernon Jones. Vernon, thank you for taking the time.

Vernon, you know Georgia, the Georgia landscape very, very well. Your reaction to this ruling from Judge McAfee? Well, obviously, I think a lot of us are not so much disappointed, but cannot believe that there was not enough compelling evidence that it would be a conflict of interest.

If the judge can disqualify Wade, then clearly you have to disqualify Fannie Willis because there were two peas in the pot. You know, they were Mutt and Jeff or Mutt and Jane, which however you want to call it. But the fact of it is, Charlie, her problems, her troubles are yet to come. When you look at what the state commission is going to be doing, someone's filed a complaint against the state bar. It sort of reminds me of a story when the dog wanted to cross the railroad track and went across the track and the train cut off a piece of his tail.

Well, the dog started coming back, smelling a little piece of his tail and got hit by the train again and lost his head. So the moral of the story is, why worry about a little piece of tail when it costs you your head? So, Vernon, I want you to talk about SB 332 that Governor Kemp just signed. He signed this bill that empowers a panel created by Georgia lawmakers to discipline and potentially remove rogue state prosecutors. Fulton County DA Fannie Willis and Athens, Clark County DA Deborah Gonzalez are rumored targets, though Governor Kemp and others are emphasizing crime as the main reason for the bill. Quote, when out of touch prosecutors put politics over public safety, the community suffers and people and property are put at risk. Do you think this potentially could be used regarding Fannie Willis? Well, the basis of this bill, Charlie, is that there's been a number of prosecutors across this country that has refused to prosecute groups of people based on their political affiliation.

And it's wrong because criminals are literally getting away. I think this piece of legislation allows the state of Georgia for the first time because they were not able to do in the past, or I should say able to do it in the past, to hold a district attorney accountable. Before, there was no recourse when a district attorney committed some unbecoming behavior.

So this allows an organization or a panel, I should say, to review what a district attorney is doing. And if they're of any conduct unbecoming, they can be removed from office or they can have some other disciplinary actions towards them. So I'd say this, she has a lot to be afraid of right now. Her license could be at stake, be removed from office, could be at stake. And remember, Charlie, the perjury. There could be some perjury here where she could end up in jail. So Vernon, can you talk about how this is playing politically?

What is the vibe on the ground? Is this helpful to the Democrats? Is Fannie Willis continuing on makes the furtherance of this legal crusade delegitimate?

What is your thoughts on the political implications of this politically? She's going to have to illegally. She's going to have to drop Wade like a hot potato. Secondly, she's going to she realized that there's a certain faction that's supporting her, that want her to get in there and go and prosecute Trump.

There's another group that there's no way in the world that she can be untainted. There's not going to be a pool of jury, a jury pool that cannot have at least one or two people on there saying, wait a minute, this is political. So she doesn't get the verdict she's seeking. This is election year. The judge is up reelection.

She's up reelection. They both have opponents. Obviously, there's a lot of politics going on right now. And it's just messy. It's just really messy.

It's a hot mess. And I think this thing is going to come to an end, Charlie. And this whole case is going to be dropped, I believe. So the we know that nationally, you know, Fannie Willis has almost no respect and support. Have you seen movement in the black community in Atlanta, Fulton County specifically over this issue? And do you think Donald Trump is poised to do better with black voters in Georgia coming into November? Obviously, Donald Trump is trending and trending hard with the black vote in Georgia, irregardless of this case.

Let's be clear about that. Also, yes, there's a there's a fraction of black voters who support Fannie Willis, but there's a fashion of white liberal voters that's supporting her as well. Those hardcore left radical Donald Trump members, I mean, I should say, Joe Biden groupies, they don't care. They don't care about judges.

They don't care about what's constitutional or not. They just want to get rid of Donald Trump. But then on the other hand, you have another faction of people that just that there's no way in the world they will sit around and allow this to happen without putting pressure on Fannie Willis, either through that committee that's going to be holding hearings, as well as more complaints coming against her towards the bar. And so it's both sides.

I don't think the needle Charlie's been moved on either end. Everybody who's for Trump is still for Trump. Those who are against Trump are against him. Those who are for Fannie, they're still with Fannie. But the end of the day is such a mixed bag. Nobody can walk away, though, not feeling that this case is tainted and that the credibility of Fannie Willis has been shot, whether you support or not.

They just want to admit it publicly, but probably they're admitting that it looks really, really bad for Fannie. Yeah. In 2020, Georgia was narrowly decided by 10000 votes. What needs to happen on the ground to ensure a Trump victory in Georgia and what is currently happening in Georgia? Charlie, it has to be an in your face campaign, door to door, precinct to precinct, voter to voter. And there's got to be an emphasis, Charlie, on getting votes out early, getting people to the polls to vote early, whether through mail or actually going down to the designated areas to vote. As a former county executive, I had to run an election office.

I know how this thing works. And I know that a lot of votes can come in early and you can determine who's voting, who hasn't voted. So you can go and target those that get there to vote by the deadline. So there has got to be an in your face campaign. The Democrats are extremely, extremely afraid right now.

Why? Because Donald Trump is having a significant impact in the black and Latino community. And now you can walk into a barbershop with most of the patrons of black or walk into a nail salon or, or walk into any work environment, both blue collar or white collar. And you have blacks who were saying, wait a minute, I can't go with Biden this time, or I'm going back with Trump again because things were better on the Trump.

And here's what's interesting, Charlie. The black voters who were changing and trending Trump is not so much about some sneakers they want to make about sneakers. They're looking at their pocket books, Charlie. They know that they, their money went farther when Trump was in office. They knew the interest rates were lower when Trump was in office. They knew that Trump was committed to America first, the borders were secured.

Their neighborhoods weren't, weren't dumped on by illegals, getting free iPads, free hotels and debit cards. So black people just like anybody else, any other person, they're looking at their pocketbooks too. Yes, they've been generations of blacks voting Democrat, but that day is over.

You know, there's an awakening now. They're seeing that the radical left has done nothing to harm them. Liberals have destroyed the black community.

Now it's time for the black community to destroy the liberals. So I have to just kind of, I want to play this piece of tape here for you, Vernon. I think it's very important, which is regarding the Fannie Willis ruling. And I want to get your reaction here. If Fannie lied, there'd be no choice but to kick them both off this case.

Let's play cut 126, please. If the judge determined they lied, he'd have no choice, right? They would both be off the case. But if he keeps her on, then he's determined they did not lie, or maybe she didn't lie, and that the timeline that was presented in court is accurate. Does that make sense to you? It does not, Bill. You know, again, as we discussed here two weeks ago, when we heard the testimony from Nathan Wade's law partner, it did not pass the smell test.

He had spoken very emphatically and clearly about the relationship starting in 2019. The statements made by Wade and Willis contradict that. And there is a strong sense that they perjured themselves in that. Fannie Willis, Vernon, has been playing the race card. She went to a local church and played the race card.

What is your reaction to her not defending herself, but saying that it's racist to criticize her or to attack her? Well, see, Charlie, this is where that commission comes in. And this is where the state bar comes in. The rules that govern lawyers in the state of Georgia, according to the state bar, are somewhat different, a lot different in many cases from what's going on with these legal proceedings in court. So what you're going to see happen, she's going to be held to a different standard. And she's already violated some bar rules. And so when that pursues down that particular avenue, that's where her law license is going to be in jeopardy. And the other thing, too, you know, the judge didn't say that Fannie didn't lie. I think the judge literally punted the ball, and it's a gift unwrapped to the legal team for all of the defendants, to appeal this.

It makes it easy to appeal because there's too many doors you can go through of evidence that it was a conflict of interest where there was perjury, where they sought to compel a lot of information from coming out. And so, again, that's why I said her troubles have just begun. She's going to lose her head because of a little bit of tail. I'm telling you. Are you ready to lose weight but not sure where to start? I understand.

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Check it out, myphdweightloss.com. I know you're probably not the biggest fan of Charlie Kirk, but I was on stage with Charlie Kirk talking about this. He wanted to talk about critical race theory with me, and I'm like, damn it, Charlie. I'm getting frustrated sitting there. Why would you say I'm not the biggest fan of Charlie Kirk?

I don't know. I figure that maybe you are. I think he's very smart. He's freaking smart. Nobody gives him credit for that.

No, because they associate him with the white nationalist sort of right wing. He's a different guy. He's quick.

He's not who they label him to be. He's very smart. He's very, very smart. Yeah, that was a really, that was a nice surprise.

All of a sudden, people are talking about it. Somebody comes up on campus, Charlie, Joe Rogan says, you're very smart. I said, okay, well, that's very sweet. I'm a huge Joe Rogan fan. I listen to Joe Rogan frequently, so that was really cool. And James Lindsay is one of my best friends in the world. I love that guy. By the way, if you listen to that episode of Rogan and Lindsay, all of a sudden, James Lindsay's quote in scripture, Matthew 7, Matthew 10, wise as serpent, as gentle as doves.

I'm like, you go, James Lindsay. So you guys should check out that podcast episode on the Joe Rogan experience. Joe Rogan will always, I will always just be a massive fan for what he did during COVID.

What he did during COVID was one of the most courageous stances I've seen from a public figure in recent memory. So we have said repeatedly, Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin. So if Donald Trump does three points better with black voters, Georgia, that's going to be in the winner column for Donald Trump. We're doing a lot of ballot chasing, a lot of activity on the ground in the great state of Arizona right here. And if he does even five points better with Hispanics, Arizona in the winner category. Now, if you listen, let's just say regularly, to the Charlie Kirk show, to thought crimes, to any any of our analysis, you will know that a month or two ago, we said that Joe Biden is pivoting for the blue wall, for the blue wall, that Joe Biden is transitioning his strategy away from Georgia and Arizona to Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania. Now, we had some data and evidence that suggests this, but we're so ahead of the curve.

And I don't say me, I'm just saying the turning point team. And I also thought to myself, Joe Biden is actually and his team are pretty smart. What would I do if I was Joe Biden? If I was Joe Biden, I would abandon Arizona. I would abandon Georgia.

And I would go all in on the three most winnable states that have the loosest voting laws that also have declining populations where a lot of conservatives are leaving these states where you can run up the score on college campuses, run up the score in urban centers. So we thought of that analytically, and it turns out. We were on to something, not just on to something.

We hit it right. Bullseye. AP News and Bloomberg reports, Biden looks to shore up Democratic blue wall as he announces millions for new projects. Now, this is one of the articles. The better worded one is Bloomberg, where it says Joe Biden is basically going all in on rebuilding the blue wall. Remember, Donald Trump broke the blue wall in 2016. He won Pennsylvania. He won Wisconsin and Michigan one, two, three. He cracked the blue wall.

The muscular class was ascendant. And Hillary Clinton spent more time in San Francisco and New York running national advertising. And they have tried to rebuild the blue wall in 2020. Joe Biden, I put in air quotes, won all three. But here's the math of where we're headed. If Donald Trump wins, Arizona Georgia and Nevada, he would have to then win the one pesky electoral vote in Omaha, Nebraska. Nebraska appropriates their electoral votes based on congressional district, not based on the winner take all of the entire state. Donald Trump will struggle to win the Omaha congressional district electoral vote. So therefore, Nevada does you basically nothing unless you also win New Hampshire.

Now, mind you, if and I know this math just from memory, because this is how seriously we take it at turning point action. Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, plus the one congressional seat in Nebraska would then bring us to a 269 to 269 electoral tie. And it would be thrown to the House of Representatives where each state would get one vote. And Donald Trump would then probably become president. But there's no guarantee there could be some coalition government formed. That's not a great path. The better path is that Donald Trump wins Arizona, Donald Trump wins Georgia, and then he needs to win one out of the three of the Rust Belt states.

And this is what bothers me. It bothers me because if Nevada just had one more electoral vote, you could actually just go heavy on Sunbelt and forget the industrial belt. Can't do that. We're one electoral vote short there. Now, another option is you could try to win New Hampshire. I think that's a bad idea. Way too many college educated Massachusetts liberals that live in New Hampshire. Bad idea.

Don't do that. So Joe Biden, in order for him to become president, needs to win all three of the Blue Wall. Donald Trump has to win one out of three of the Blue Wall if Arizona and Georgia go the direction that they're trending.

And that's a big if. So Joe Biden is going all in. I'm going three for three for the Blue Wall. Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan. If Donald Trump can win one out of those three, he's president.

If Joe Biden wins three out of three, he effectively blocks Donald Trump from becoming president. We believe that Wisconsin is the best bet for multiple reasons. The best voting laws of the three.

They're not good, but they're the best of the three. Michigan is a disaster. Pennsylvania's even worse. The polls are all three viable right now, but we think Wisconsin's the best bet.

If you live in those states, you need to get involved right now. This is why we are hosting our major summer convention in Detroit, Michigan. We are going all in on the Blue Wall. You must win one out of three. Joe Biden agrees.

They're telegraphing their strategy. Let's volunteer, donate, get involved, be a precinct committeeman, chase ballots, register voters. It's time to get in the grassroots. We know where the civilization will be decided.

It'll be decided in Wisconsin, Michigan or Pennsylvania. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always. Freedom at CharlieKirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.