Unite the Tribes — A DeSantis Supporter Explains How to Bring the Party Together

Okay everybody, today on The Charlie Kirk Show, time to unite the clans and the tribes, Josh Hammer, with some excellent commentary, former DeSantis supporter.

It's time to bring everyone together, and it's time for us to win, win, win. Great conversation. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. And an equally interesting and important conversation with Sarah Gable Seifert from everylife.com.

That's everylife.com, a pro-life diaper company, everylife.com. Excellent conversation about single women, marriage, hormonal birth control, and more. Make sure you listen to this, you're going to love it. Subscribe to our podcast and become a member. Members can listen to the podcast advertiser free, and we're building a beautiful community there and a way to get behind our program. It's members.charliekirk.com. That is members.charliekirk.com. You can email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast when you open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk show, and get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com.

That is tpusa.com. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

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Go to noblegoldinvestments.com. There is a big push by the left. Joe Biden did a whole rally yesterday all about abortion. We need to celebrate life, and there is a wonderful partner of this program that we want to brag on, everylife.com. It is the only pro-life diaper company, and joining us now is Sarah Gable Siefert, who does a wonderful job running EveryLife, everylife.com. Sarah, welcome to the program. Talk about the great work that EveryLife is doing and the advertising campaign that has gone very, very viral.

Thank you so much for having me, Charlie. EveryLife is the first pro-life diaper company on the market. Every other diaper company that's out there is supporting abortion financially and vocally. So we decided to be the solution for parents that are passionate about shopping and alignment with their values.

We have a premium high-performing product that can be delivered straight to your doorstep. And really, our mission is simple, Charlie. We believe that every child is a gift from God deserving of love, protection and celebration. We just launched a huge campaign in Times Square, and it was inspired by Elon Musk. He said having children is saving the world, and we 100% believe that. So we blew it up on a billboard in Times Square with a message underneath that said, make more babies. Charlie, we need more children in this world, not less. There is a massive push for people to not have children. We're seeing declining birth rates. We're seeing fertility rates at a historical low of 1.67 in 2022. 23% of U.S. adults from 18 to 45 say that climate change has them reconsidering having children.

44% of non-parents 18 to 49 say that it is probably unlikely that they're going to have children at all one day. So this is a really big message that we need to be projecting that children are actually a gift. They are how we continue as a nation.

It's how we stay strong. And they're not a burden. They're not an inconvenience. They don't steal your joy.

They actually are the very opposite. They are a gift. They are a blessing.

And we're thankful to be sharing this with Americans. I find the people who say they're a burden are childless. I don't find people that have kids. And if you say that they're a burden and you're a parent and there's something deeply wrong with you. I mean, so I said something similar at America Fest and it's just it's not controversial. And I was attacked from every direction where people say, how dare you tell people to have children?

This is awful advice. So, Sarah, can you riff at that from a female perspective? Because they say, how dare you tell women this? And so we have we have more single young ladies in their early 30s than any other time ever. Actually, more single young ladies than married young ladies. I think part of that is our fault for not celebrating life well enough. Your thoughts, Sarah?

Yeah, it was really interesting, Charlie. When we were in New York, we actually did some man on the street interviews and almost every single woman that was in their fertile years said that they did not believe that children were saving the world and that they were actually very content not having children. And so it was pretty heartbreaking to hear that this message actually is impacting hearts and minds. And what I would say is that, man, you're buying into some serious lies because I'm a mom. I have a 14 month old and she has brought me more joy than anything else I could ever hope or imagine. And I would say that from the very beginning of time, God actually called us to be fruitful and to multiply. It's why we are here on this earth. We are meant to do that. And as mothers, we have a motherly instinct. And so these women that are not having children, they're actually burying something that is already inside of us. So I would say champion that that thing in you that actually does desire to not just think about yourself all of the time, but actually to procreate and to create a legacy for yourself. Because without children, what's our legacy?

Why are we even here? So I would say being a mom is the greatest gift at every life. We champion parenthood, we champion motherhood and fatherhood, and we want to see more babies, Charlie.

Yes. So I want you guys to check out the website. It's every life dot com. You guys can get the bundle, the diaper pack, the wipe.

It's great products. They do a great job changing diapers, changing lives. And and Sarah, we want to try to change the culture around life. And without getting too deep into the politics of abortion, you and I are very pro life. There is a darkness around the fascination with abortion.

I mean, it is it is the over celebration of death or at least not of life. And it's sad because I totally agree. I mean, these young ladies in New York, they say that now when they're twenty six, but when they're thirty three and they have a bunch of cats and they're a partner at some private equity firm, I don't know if they're going to still have the quote unquote happiness they claim to have. And Sarah, in addition, we must be clear that corporate America, they do not want young ladies to get married. They pay for their abortions. They pay for them to freeze their eggs.

Talk about this, Sarah, please. Every life dot com. Yep. That's 100 percent accurate. These corporate companies do not care about their women employees having children. They would rather them sit on the computers and crank out Excel sheets and numbers all day long.

And what we're saying at every life is we're doing the opposite. We have a baby bonus program where we actually reward our employees for having children. We'll give them five thousand dollars when they have a child to bless them or if they choose to adopt, because we actually care about their children and them having them. And we want to reward them for them. We want to bless them for it. And so I would say, yeah, the pro choice message is strong. It's out there.

But I'm also seeing a pro life generation rise up and more young people also saying that children are a gift and they want to get married and they want to have children. And so the more that we can be as a company across the board, standing for life and putting action behind it, I think we're actually going to see a lot of reward because of it. It's every life dot com. It's a wonderful company, everybody.

You also use promo code Charlie for 10 percent off. I want to play this piece of tape here. It's extraordinary. This is an OBGYN student testifying in some sort of a hearing from Wisconsin. And she says that she and many of her classmates will not be in Wisconsin if they cannot conduct abortions, if she cannot forcibly removed a baby with the umbilical cord, crush the skull and remove it from a mother's womb. She's out. And I hate to be that graphic, but I hope everyone understands what an abortion actually is.

It's not it's not a haircut. It's a vicious procedure that is. And if you if you're pro choice, my only ask of you is watch an abortion through.

There's plenty of plenty of videos online. And if you can stomach it and remain pro choice, then so be it. But don't be a hypocrite.

OK, play cut one twenty two. I think abortion should be unrestricted. And I think when somebody finds out in pregnancy, when or how far along that they are, when someone finds out they should be able to get an abortion if they want to.

And for some people, that is full term. If I can't get abortion training here, if I can't perform abortions in my career, I will not stay in Wisconsin. And a lot of my colleagues who are on the same track agree. All right. Thank you.

That will do nothing to help our shortages, sir. It's heartbreaking. And the reality is you're right to your point earlier, Charlie, these young girls that are saying that they don't want children and they want full access to abortion. I think that they're going to see five years, 10 years, 20 years down the road, that they're very much going to regret those statements and actually wish they would have pursued the very things that lead to life, which is getting into a beautiful marriage and having children. That is what life is about. That's what makes it sweet.

That's what makes it special. So our message to young people is get married, have kids and enjoy that because there's truly nothing better. Look, it's a huge problem. The civilization is in decline as far as peer numbers. The fertility rates are down. Testosterone rates are down. Young ladies are less happy than they've ever been. They're more suicidal than they've ever been. And again, the bad guys, they say, oh, you can't connect two or three.

At some point, these things start to connect, right? When you change 5,000 years of recorded history and you immediately have young ladies on hormonal birth control, which messes with your head, hormonal birth control is a disaster. Read about it. It's awful.

By the way, I say this and these women come up to me and they love it. That's like a nonpolitical thing. They say that hormonal birth control is out of control in their study after study, how hormonal birth control increases suicidal ideation and anxiety. And Alex Clark mentions this a lot. But then also they're having less children and we're wondering why it's the most suicidal, alcohol addicted, drug addicted generation history. Traditional media is crumbling.

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Sarah, can you just respond to that riff I was making? You know, you have this hormonal birth control movement that is really, there's a lot of big pushback against it. A lot of young women feel as if they have been lied to.

Please elaborate if you will. Yeah, it's interesting Charlie. I actually directed a pregnancy resource center for a few years, couple years back and I had the opportunity to actually sit with a lot of these women who were considering abortion and many of them had had abortions previously and when we kind of talked through what that experience was like, many were experiencing depression. They were experiencing regret. They were lonely. They were isolated.

They were having relationship problems, PTSD. The list goes on and on and I'm going to be honest with you, I've never heard anybody say that they regret having their child but I have heard over and over and over again that I regret my abortion and so I do think there is a culture and there is a message being projected to young people that abortion is the solution, that hormonal birth control is the solution but it's not the solution. We actually need to prioritize our health and the way that we prioritize our health is by getting in healthy relationships and getting married and having children and experiencing the beauty of life and in that comes fruitfulness and in that comes joy and so I would just say to all the young people that are listening, there's no better joy in this world than finding someone to spend the rest of your life with, your best friend, and producing children with them. It is unbelievable. I can't say enough good things about it and Charlie, I know you feel the same way.

I do. I also think we must be very direct with, you know, some of the young ladies will say, you know, but my life will change and I can't put myself first. You're 100 percent right. You're no longer number one but then you're going to remain an infant. You will remain an infant.

Infants are people that only think about themselves. If you want to be an adult and do something bigger than yourself and have a duty and have an obligation, then yeah, you're going to lose some sleep and you're going to have some really stressful days and things outside of your control but that's how you grow. You grow as a person, you grow spiritually and so when people say, oh my goodness, you know, it's going to be really hard and we have to be honest with it, you know, this whole dink thing. What is your response to this dink thing? It's that dual income no kids.

They're bragging on TikTok and they say, you know, I can go to Maui and I could go to Tokyo and that's totally true but you might die alone. Sarah, your response? I would say that's another lie and I would also say that, again, my husband and I had our first child. My daughter's been on 40 plus flights now.

She goes everywhere with me. We travel the world together and yeah, of course there's times when it's challenging and we don't have a lot of sleep but it doesn't matter because we're having so much fun traveling the world together as a family. So this idea that being single and not having children is the best way to live your life, I would say you have not experienced life yet. Life is so much more fun and full when you build your family and so I can say from experience that you got to have children.

You got to get married because there's nothing better. So all these single people that are out there with dual incomes, great, but you're not going to leave a legacy and I would be asking them, you know, what are you leaving here on this earth? What's your goal? Where are you going to go with this? Because there's really not much there. There's not much substance there but children lead to fruit and children lead to legacy.

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Leave the diaper and wipe delivery to you guys. Everylife.com. Sarah, thank you so much. Thank you so much, Charlie.

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GoodRanchers.com, promo code Charlie. It is time to unite the clans, unite the tribes. And joining us now is a very smart man, formerly in the DeSantis camp, but now is trying to unite everybody together, which I enthusiastically support. And we had Chip Roy on the program earlier and we didn't even get to that, but we're trying to do our best to show it's time to let this primary be over and unite to defeat the Democrats. Josh Hammer, host of the Josh Hammer Show and senior editor at large of Newsweek. Josh, welcome to the program. Is it time to unite the clans and the tribes against the Marxists? Charlie, long time no talk.

Hope you're doing well. Look, it obviously is over. I mean, this was over at the very latest night of the Iowa caucuses. I wrote a column last Friday saying that it was time to get behind Trump. That's a couple of days before Ron DeSantis announced that he was bowing out of the campaign. You know, at this point, Charlie, I do hear some people who were formerly within the broader DeSantis fold, who are, you know, are affording with the possibility of going with RFK Jr., some people who are still mulling their options.

Maybe they'll just stay home this November. You know, look, I think that everyone on the right at the very latest should have learned their right lessons from way back in 2016. There was a very vibrant never-Trump movement back in 2016. Donald Trump ended up winning around 95% of self-identified Republicans in 2016, going against Hillary Clinton.

He had a very successful presidency for the most part. Obviously, you can pick and choose some things to be upset about. That's why you have primaries, but he's now the candidate. And at this point, Charlie, there is no need to overthink this.

There is no need to try to over-intellectualize or over-analyze it. We are conservatives. We now have someone who's going to be the nominee, who was a very conservative president for the most part, who transformed the federal judiciary, something that I know firsthand about.

I clerked for a Trump nominee, the amazing Judge James C. Ho down in Texas on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. I saw it firsthand. When Donald Trump was present, we had sanity and stability on the world stage. Russia was not marching into Ukraine. Hamas was not slaughtering Jews over in Israel, where I just was a couple of weeks ago. I saw the carnage for myself. I literally saw the effects, the carnage and the destruction of Donald Trump being absent from the White House.

So this thing is just beyond over. Who the heck knows what RFK Jr. would do if you're thinking of possibly voting for him? What is his foreign policy? What is his constitutional judicial philosophy when it comes to Supreme Court picks?

It makes no sense whatsoever, Charlie. So, yes, I live in Florida. I was enthusiastic supporter of Governor DeSantis' campaign.

I think that he is the best governor in America. But at this point, it is just so beyond patently obvious to me. Bring everyone together. Let's get Donald Trump across the finish line this fall. Yeah. Amen.

And look, I'll speak to the Trump guys and I want you to speak to the DeSantis people. I'll go first, which is I totally get 48 hours of little bitterness, built in muscle memory. It's all right. Get it out of your system. We're past that.

No more of these potshots on social media. I don't want to hear it's enough. You guys had your couple of days of taunting and all that. It's fine.

It's totally normal. You know, it's a long primary. You got to get out of your system. We're past that.

We're at Wednesday coming into Thursday. Time to let that go away. We need a consolidation. Josh, what do you have to say to the DeSantis enthusiasts that are saying, I'm going to go work for R.F.K., I'm not going to vote for Trump? And they're fired up.

What would your message to them be? Charlie, we live in a two party system that is just a very basic reality of American politics that you have some people saying that, oh, maybe the two party system is finally going to break this year because R.F.K. Junior is polling at a certain threshold.

You have this no labels thing. You have Cornel West, who's running as a socialist, will still vote from Joe Biden. So there's been a lot of chatter as to maybe this could be the year where the two party system is going to break.

You know, I have news for everyone out there. The two party system is not going anywhere. That is simply a part. That is very simply a part of the American political fabric. At this very point, Ross Perot came the closest in the early 1990s.

Maybe R.F.K. Junior maybe could break through to 15 percent of the national popular vote. It's not like he's going to win any Electoral College votes. So, you know, if you actually do think that Joe Biden is as bad as I think that you should think that Joe Biden is, he has been an absolutely horrific president. His term thus far, Charlie, I think has been considerably worse than either of Barack Obama's two terms.

And that is a very, very low floor to even try to get below. I think that he has done it between the economy, between the foreign policy. If you think that he is that bad, then I really don't think you have any choice but to vote for Donald Trump this fall. And moreover, you know, I referenced the 2016 election earlier. You know, in 2016, we saw a lot of the same kind of personal mudslinging. I mean, back in 2016, I was a vocal supporter of Senator Ted Cruz's campaign back in the primary. And I remember back in March of that year how there was a story in the National Enquirer that seemed like it maybe came from Trump people about Cruz having these affairs.

And I was really disgusted by it. But at some point, Charlie, you know, we're adults. At some point, you have to realize that politics is a dirty business. And this isn't necessarily about forming the best of personal relationships. You don't need to necessarily want to go have a beer or break bread with the person that you're going to vote for. You're going to vote for that person because you are a patriot and you love this country and you should entrust your political judgment to one person and one party in this case. And in this case, that obviously is or at least should be Donald Trump and the Republican Party this fall.

Yeah. And I look I tend to just kind of forget quickly in politics. I mean that unless there's a certain group of people that I won't name on air.

There's like three or four that I won't forget. But besides that, you know, it's just like it's just generally if it's within the boundaries, I don't even want to say a fair play, but of just kind of primary contention. You guys have just got to forgive and just wipe the slate clean. And we have to try to put this together because and I'm not too worried about this, Josh, because I over time this starts to fade away. And, you know, and look, I fully acknowledge it. And I said it on Sunday. I'm going to apologize for it on Sunday. I sent out a spicy tweet because I was really ticked at DeSantis for staying in the race too long.

It's fine. We're on Wednesday. We're moving on. I like DeSantis.

It's the way it is. And we're at a place now, though, where it's all about defeating the Democrats. It's about bringing people together. Now, Josh, if I can ask, though, without getting too into the rearview mirror, just can you just give us your take on what could have gone differently? What are the lessons from the DeSantis campaign?

He's America's greatest governor. Is there anything from your perspective that you think we can learn that you want to share? I'm curious because you're super smart and analytical and it might be helpful for future campaigns. You know, Charlie, I haven't really had the time to fully put pen to paper and write down my full thoughts on this. Obviously, the DeSantis campaign was was not well run from start to finish. I mean, going back to the infamous launch on Twitter and the Twitter space with Elon Musk last May, which, by the way, was a huge mistake right out the gate. You have a very telegenic family, the beautiful first lady and Casey DeSantis.

You have young, good looking kids. You know, it would have made a lot of sense to announce that campaign with all the televisuals, the backdrops of like a U.S. Navy base or maybe a baseball field. DeSantis was a former baseball player.

So, you know, it infamously got off to a terrible start with all the Twitter space crashes. And unfortunately, you know, they never really found their message. I mean, DeSantis, I as authority and I've seen him in action time and time again as governor. He has a certain swagger.

The way that he talks to the media, the way that he vetoes legislation, the way that he can bully people on his own side and get them in line and get bills across the finish line, sign into law. He never was able to get that swagger to the national stage. You know, back in, I guess it was last summer, last May or June as the campaign was revving up, they had this campaign slogan, Great American Comeback. And, you know, unfortunately, Charlie, I'm not sure that I could tell you exactly what the Great American Comeback ever was or ever was intended to be.

They never had a message. And then you kind of combine that with the fact that the DeSantis campaign put a lot of chips, a lot of eggs into the basket of Iowa, which makes sense to an extent. I mean, he's a very conservative governor.

So you want to go for the, for the more avowedly conservative evangelical of the early voting States. I understand that calculation, but whoever was advising him to kind of put on the sweater vest and do kind of like the dad joke kind of thing, you know, totally robbing DeSantis of his most natural element, which is just being a fiery right wing populist conservative. So it was just a total mismatch from, from start to finish. In retrospect, I don't think that anyone could have beaten Donald Trump this cycle. Maybe that should have been obvious at the time. I mean, you know, there were, there was polling after the November 2022 midterm that showed DeSantis and Trump fairly neck and neck. So I don't think, I don't think it was crazy to think at that time, like you might've had a shock, but in retrospect, certainly, I don't think it was actually possible to beat Donald Trump this cycle. I think that's good analysis.

Okay. Let's I want to now shift gears to Nikki Haley. Nikki is continuing this primary.

It's one of the most delusional things I've ever seen. I mean, she's acting as if she's a winner every time you go around here. What's your take on Nikki Haley? How damaging is this to the party?

What ideas does she represent Josh Hammer? Charlie, I think Nikki Haley is absolutely terrible. In fact, before DeSantis dropped out, this part of my column that I wrote last Friday, which is that I said that DeSantis should come back to Tallahassee and that he should probably do so before the New Hampshire primary for the very simple reason that more of his voters in New Hampshire and elsewhere will go to Trump than for Haley, and that Nikki Haley poses a unique threat to take the Republican party back to the pre-2016 status quo ante, to the way it used to be, to the party of Paul Ryan, the party of John McCain, of globalism, of neoconservatism all around the world.

And, you know, not to toot my own horn, but that's basically exactly what DeSantis did. He dropped out on Sunday and he condemned Nikki Haley in not so subtle language, and he was emphatically correct to do so. Nikki Haley, Charlie, is the exact opposite, I think, of what people on the right like you, me, and so many others stand for. We are trying to take the conservative movement, trying to take the Republican party in a direction that is more in tune with the tangible bread and butter day-to-day interests of a working class and middle class party. The Republican party at this point is, you know, is the party of white t-shirt, blue jeans, and I was going to say Bud Light, but I guess not Bud Light, I guess we'll say Chorus Light at this point.

You know, it's not the party of Rosé and Martinis and Country Club memberships that maybe it was 60, 70 years ago. And the Wall Street Journal editorial board and folks like that, National Review, they haven't gotten the message yet. Nikki Haley, unfortunately, at this point is simply trying to appease and kowtow to her donors who read publications like the Wall Street Journal editorial board.

They're not listening to the Charlie Kirk show or the Josh Hammer show or interests or media organizations like that. She's a total throwback. I think that she is extraordinarily dangerous and is very, very important. If any of the momentum from the post 2016 conservative movement is to prevail into the future, then it is existentially important that Nikki Haley be swiftly defeated. I hope that South Carolina is her last stand if she is not out before that. Yeah, I mean, she's she's setting herself up for failure there in humiliation.

It's an unnecessary extra month. I think Donald Trump should declare himself the presumptive nominee. He needs to start just acting like it, raising money for it. I think he should de-emphasize ground staff in these states, deploy them immediately to Arizona, Wisconsin, Georgia. Trump has to just say, I'm the nominee.

This is a waste of time. And by the way, I'm just so insulted, Nikki Haley says. And next we head to South Carolina. Hey, hello. There's a Nevada caucus. That's and that's a big state. How insulting.

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Check it out, myphdweightloss.com. So, Josh, I want you to react to this. There has been tape after tape after tape of the media, especially center-right media last evening on cable news, trying to push for Nikki Haley as vice president. I want to consolidate the DeSantis support. I want to consolidate true conservatives.

I can't imagine that, you know, the DeSantis kind of Trump camps that are now merging into one. I think there would be widespread anger if Nikki Haley ended up becoming vice president. Riff on that and then list some names of some people that you think would be strategic and smart. You don't have to say it.

Just list a name just generally. I'd be curious what you have to think. Yeah, Nikki Haley would be a disaster as vice president, Charlie. There is literally no reason to do that whatsoever. There is one possible reason that I can only think of, and that is her access to donors. She is very cozy with a lot of donors. She has a lot of access to Wall Street, hedge fund, private equity, billionaires of that sort. So if the very short-term calculation is to provide the presumptive nominee, Donald Trump, access to donors for purposes of helping fund his exorbitant legal bills from the Democrats' sprawling lawfare operation, that is literally the only reason out there.

Now, from a substantive conservative perspective, there is no reason whatsoever. And from that perspective, I sincerely hope that he does not do it. I don't want Nikki Haley anywhere near Donald Trump's presidency if he goes ahead and defeats Joe Biden this November. I don't care if it's vice president, secretary of state. You know, literally the only job maybe that Nikki Haley would be okay for was her old job in the Trump administration, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, because, Charlie, that's also the easiest job in the world. You basically go to this ridiculous cesspool of moral villainy there in New York City.

You flip your two middle fingers at tin-pot dictators and radical Islamists and you call it a day. It's the easiest job in the world. As far as people who I would like to see as vice president, the number one name that keeps on coming to mind for me, Charlie, would be my friend J.D. Vance. I've known J.D.

for years now. I am a huge, huge fan of his. I think that he has his finger 100 percent on the pulse of where the conservative movement is, where the Republican Party is. He is exactly the kind of dynamic figure we need to solidify the Republican Party as the party of the working in the middle class. He is a brilliant policy savant when it comes to rethinking political economy. His foreign policy is exactly right. I think that would be a tremendous asset for Donald Trump this fall.

I think that's smart. And he's a great family man. He would do very well in the Midwest. What do you think about a Ben Carson and some of these other whispers?

I'm a little worried about Lee Stefanik. She's a little too establishment for me. You know, they're talking about Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Christine Noem.

What are your thoughts on some of these names? I like Sarah Huckabee Sanders. I've been very impressed with Sarah Huckabee Sanders for years now. I think that she was extraordinarily capable when she served in the Trump White House. And she's been a very good governor in Arkansas, from what I can tell as well. So, you know, if Trump wants to go with a woman, I think Sarah Huckabee Sanders probably would be my top choice. I'm hearing recently, Charlie, about Katie Britt in Alabama. I honestly don't know a ton about her.

I mean, she was she was a she was a Chamber of Commerce person. Oh, no, she's McConnell in a dress. Not not her. No way. No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah.

I mean, I would not support that either. Sarah Huckabee Sanders would be my favorite if he's going to go with the woman. I share your concerns about Elise Stefanik. Elise Stefanik has her moment in the sun right now because of her grilling of the Harvard presidents. She did great. She did great. She did great there. But if you look at her track record, there are a lot, a lot of very troubling question marks. She has been wobbly, to put it mildly, on the transgender issue that is a civilizational defining issue.

She would definitely not be my first choice. Ben Carson is a soft spoken man. He is a good man. He is a man of faith. I'm not entirely sure that that's really the right pick for Trump this fall either, but I wouldn't necessarily oppose it.

I just don't really see the point for it. It depends on what type of race we have to end up running. If no labels, Cornel West and RFK are all in the mix, then we have to maximize base support. And that goes straight to the faith community and bringing people of faith home. And Ben Carson does that. He'll bring he has a he's a calming influence for suburban voters that might agree with Trump on policy, but they don't like the style.

He's a calming influence. And also, Ben could potentially address some of the covid vaccine anxiety that led some of the enthusiasm for DeSantis and for RFK. He's a medical doctor. He spoke out against the vaccine.

He said, you can't trust this technology. So the CDC lies to you. And no one is going to outrank Dr. Ben Carson when it comes to actually being in an operating room. I mean, Dr. Fauci is a celebrity TV doctor. Dr. Ben Carson has saved lives.

And I also just think that it's this unique thing. He's not a politician in the sense that he served his HUD. That's fine. But he has a great story to tell a story. I tell people about Ben Carson, like, really?

I didn't know that. Anyway, I'm not totally sold on it, but it's way better than Nikki Haley and Elise Stefanik. Something to think about. Josh, thank you so much. You bet, Charlie.

And remember, it's not brain surgery to be vice president. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always. Freedom at CharlieKirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless.