The MAGA Legal Counteroffensive with Darren Beattie and Brian Mueller

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That is noblegoldinvestments.com right now. Hey, everybody. It's in the Charlie Kirk show. Darren Beatty joins us about how we fight back and some breaking news regarding Grand Canyon University. As always, you can email us freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast. Open up your podcast app and type in charliekirkshow and get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com.

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Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

That's why we are here. Brought to you by the loan experts I trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandtodd.com. We have an exclusive breaking story here, very important story, so pay attention. Grand Canyon University is one of the most important institutions in the country. It's a Christian school. They do an amazing job here in Phoenix, and they are being targeted by the federal government in a way that is so unbelievable. Joining us now is President Brian Mueller of Grand Canyon University.

President Mueller, thank you for taking the time, and I know you're breaking some news with us today. Please tell us all about it. It's something that started in, you know, we have an interesting history. We started as a non-profit institution in 1949, small private Christian university, and changed to a for-profit status in 2008 because we were in debt. We were down to 900 students. We came in at that time, and we went to the public markets to get access to capital so we could grow this thing out in a big way, and that worked. It was incredible growth from 2008 to 2018. In 2018, we decided to go back as a non-profit university and execute a debt transaction with the blessing of the IRS, and the IRS has always been the determiner of whether a university is non-profit or for-profit. The department took unprecedented action, the Department of Education, in saying that they're going to treat us as a for-profit institution. It took us a little while to figure out why they did that. We were looking for a path forward with them, but in 2021, the department along with the VA and the FTC came out and said, we are going to crack down on for-profit institutions because historically the default rates are higher than non-profit institutions.

At that point, we realized why they were doing what they were doing. We were, number one, a non-profit university and operating that way, but number two, our default rates are less than a national average, and so their rationale for cracking down on for-profits, even if we were, didn't fit us. We worked hard with them for four years. We worked hard, they didn't, to try to get a solution to this thing because we wanted the university's long-term legacy to be insured.

They could never get there. They wouldn't change their mind, and so in 2021, we filed a complaint. It's an ongoing legal action, but that precipitated then the retaliation, and they've opened up four different investigations that are unbelievably exhaustive. It costs us millions of dollars in legal fees, et cetera, and they announced a couple weeks ago that in one of the cases, they're going to accuse us of misrepresenting our programs. No students have complained about misrepresentation or very few, nobody officially, but they looked at our website and said, you misrepresented something and they're going to issue a big fine.

So what we're doing is we're coming out and saying, listen, this has all got to stop. We have been a model institution for everything that they've said is important to them. We have good graduation rates. We have low cohort default rates.

Our 90-10 calculation is 65 percent. Gainful employment, almost all of our programs pass it. We haven't raised tuition in 15 years, which is unheard of. We have an extremely diverse student body as a result, and we've grown to 118,000 students, and so why we're getting this harassment that's not stopping is the question the question we're asking and trying to get some support for. Yeah, and I mean, I think I know why. You guys are effective.

You're Christian. When I visited the campus with you, President Mueller, I was so impressed by the quality of the students, the joy, the worship that was happening, and so do you believe that this is ideological in nature, that you guys have pioneered a path for innovative, entrepreneurial, low-cost, faith-based education, and that the current government in Washington, D.C., specifically the Department of Education, finds this to be a problem, which I find hilarious and also tragic because there are actual other colleges, like other colleges that are doing really, really bad stuff that are untouched by the Department of Education. Do you think that this is ideological, the hit from the federal government?

Yeah, they certainly won't tell us. They won't give us their reasons, and so you're left with that. There are serious problems in higher education today. Tuitions keep going up at an alarming rate. Students are taking on too much debt.

Programs take too long. Programs aren't tied directly enough to the economy and where the jobs and careers are going to be, and every time tuition goes up, diversity goes down, and we have created a model that's resolved all those issues. We haven't raised tuition in 15 years.

Our average student pays less than an average State University student, which is heavily subsidized. Our students take out less debt than the average State University student, over 40 percent, graduating in three or three and a half years, not four or five or six, and so all those issues that plague higher education and is causing people not to want to engage in the percentages they have in the past, we resolve those things. In addition to the free speech thing, we're a Christian university. We have a doctoral statement, a set of ethical position statements. We teach from that viewpoint, but about 30 percent of our students come here for a different reason, and they're free to express their worldview in the classroom and out of it. We're not a church, we're a university, and so we think we've hit a spot that we're incredibly attractive. We've grown our ground campus from 900 students to 27. People are responding very positively to this, which makes all of this harassment very difficult to understand.

By the way, the campus is super impressive, and what you've done to the area, I mean, you have brought jobs and opportunity to an area of Phoenix that is typically overlooked. So, President Mueller, what exactly then is the state? So, you have multiple investigations from multiple departments? So, explain to us what are you going to do, legal action against the Department of Education or the Federal Trade Commission?

So, to walk us through kind of the current investigations and how you plan to respond. Yeah, the first one came from the VA, and they're looking at our advertising, our communication, they're saying we miscommunicated, and they were going to hold us accountable because we said cybersecurity experts are in huge demand in today's society, and that's every company needs cybersecurity. I looked at that and said, number one, the VA has never looked at advertising material before. I had no idea why they were doing that, but secondly, I said, go away and got to where we're going to agree to that, because those are both factual statements. Well, they backtracked, and then the department came with what we call an open program review around what we were counting as attendance in our online program.

We have students post a bio, which is critical to the learning process for working adults, and they claimed that that was not legitimate academic work, and we disputed that. That's an ongoing thing. Nothing's happened about that. The third thing is they claim we misrepresented the cost of our doctoral program, which we absolutely have not in any way done that, and it's that one that they sent us a letter two weeks ago and said that they're going to fine us for that. They're going to have a press release, and they're going to fine us for that, and the reason we're getting out in front of that is because we want to make sure everybody that is associated with the university knows that we in no way shape or form misrepresent cost in time of our programs. In fact, we go way overboard and do a lot more than you have to do in that vein, and so obviously we're going to contest that in whatever way we need to. We do have an ongoing litigation about our nonprofit status.

That started a couple years ago, and that's ongoing. We're not asking for much. All we want all we want is for them to recognize us as a non-profit institution, which we duly have earned by virtue of the IRS look into what we do. All we're asking to do is do that. A very simple thing. They don't want to do it because they can't treat us differently, and they want to treat us differently, and they want to do all these investigations, and it's this second thing that they're going to come out with.

We think in a couple weeks about we misrepresented the cost of our doctoral program, which we absolutely do not do. We go way above and beyond, in fact, in the opposite vein of that. Geez, I'm 100% behind you, President Mueller.

This is a pattern and a theme of anybody that is successful that is in the Christian world or in the center-right conservative world. Whatever it is is just experiencing the wrath of the government. The VA, the Veterans Administration, is coming after you? Well, the VA should probably worry about how many veterans are committing suicide every single day, not attacking one of the most successful, low-cost, effective Christian universities in the country. President Mueller, we're behind you.

What is the action item for our audience? Well, if you're in Arizona, we'd love for you to call the two U.S. senators who are behind us, by the way. Everybody in Arizona is behind us, but we'd really like you to call your local congressperson.

Call the two U.S. senators and just tell them that Grand Canyon University is important to the state. We're doing really, really good work. We're helping people across the socioeconomic strata, which is extremely important.

We're really impactful as it regards social mobility, and that they would like the Department of Ed to back off and treat us fairly. We're with you. Thank you, President Mueller. Keep us updated, and we have your back. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate the time.

Thanks. Listen, as students begin heading back to school, do you think they'll be learning about the founding principles that made America the freest, most prosperous nation in history? Will they learn that our unalienable rights are God-given and not granted by government?

Will they be given a full and honest account of our nation's history? The answer to all these questions is yes for students at Hillsdale College. And these days, in addition to teaching college students, Hillsdale has extended its teaching to K-12 students and lifelong learners like you and me. If you're not doing so already, one of the best ways to start learning from my friends at Hillsdale is through In Primus, Hillsdale's free digest of liberty. My listeners can sign up for free at the special website, which is available for a limited time. It's at charlieforhillsdale.com. I look forward to In Primus each month, and you can too. It's interesting, useful, and free. The best and smartest in conservative constitutionalist thought. Find out more about Hillsdale and In Primus at charlieforhillsdale.com.

They're an excellent college, America's greatest college, charlieforhillsdale.com. Breaking news, Donald Trump might be coming to D.C. sometime soon. Maybe going to D.C. to put his name out for Speaker of the House. Now, I don't want to say it's an impossibility, but do you really see Dan Crenshaw voting for Donald Trump for Speaker of the House?

I think that that would be rather unlikely. Or even Chip Roy, who has endorsed Ron DeSantis or Dusty Johnson, would be first time since President Polk that that has happened. A lot of people are proposing it out here, and there's certainly a lack of clarity on who the next speaker needs to be. Congressman Troy Nels believes that Donald Trump is the way to go. He has proposed Donald Trump, and we'll see how it happens in the Republican conference meeting. Trump has just been at the civil trial in New York. Letitia James comes out and attacks Donald Trump, obviously.

Play cut 61. Trump's comments were offensive. They were baseless. They were a void of any facts and or any evidence what they were or comments that unfortunately fomented violence and comments that I would describe as race baiting and comments, unfortunately, that appeals to the bottom of our humanity. This case was brought simply because it was a case where individuals have engaged in a pattern and practice of fraud. And I will not sit idly by and allow anyone to subvert the law.

And lastly, I will not be bullied. And so Mr. Trump is no longer here. The Donald Trump show is over. This was nothing more than a political stunt. I think it was really smart for Trump to show up. Trump didn't have to show up.

It's a civil trial. He decided to show up and sit through it. What he did is he changed the media narrative around the whole thing.

Very, very smart. Trump did what Trump does best. He draws all the attention to himself, the magnetic energy. So instead of this sideshow where all of a sudden there's this penalty, Donald Trump leaned right in, sits right there during that trial where that judge is smirking and smiling for the cameras.

You know this, but it's worthy of repeating. We are now in the next phase of the Cultural Revolution. We're living in a world where we're living through the Cultural Revolution. We're living through lawfare. We just talked about it with Grand Canyon University. 118,000 students. Christian.

Huge impact to the community in Phoenix. Take them out. NRA? Try to take them out. Project Veritas?

Try to take them out. Steve Bannon? Try to put him in federal prison. Dinesh D'Souza? Try to put him in federal prison.

It's across the entire landscape. One of the reasons why our Republicans are nearly coming to blows with one another is I don't think the rank and file in D.C. understand what's really going on with the regime. They are going name by name, name by name. Take out this guy. Take Tucker Carlson off the air. Isolate James O'Keefe. Project Veritas. Gone. Forget it. Name by name by name by name by name by name by name by name. Surgical strikes.

They have a whole war room dedicated to this. And of course Donald Trump's at the top of the list, but doesn't stop there. Leonard Leo, who runs the Federalist Society. Washington D.C. Attorney General. Deploy him.

Because you can't have good judges. Leonard Leo also has a billion dollar fund that he runs. Boom. Isolate him with criminal investigations. Bottom up.

Top down. No such war room to counter this stuff. No such strategy as to how we solve it. When I talk to Republican lawmakers, it's always like, oh, I hope it gets better. Or they don't really have an answer. They're terrified. They're afraid. They know deep down they actually live in an enemy occupied country. And the Democrats, they smell blood. They see that they can eliminate basically the entire infrastructure on the right.

They see that they'll be able to take people's stuff like in New York. And I think it was Ruth Marcus from the Washington Post. Is that right? Who wrote this piece? Yeah, it was Ruth. OK, Ruth Marcus. I've met her before. Actually, a sweet person. We see the world completely differently. She became kind of nasty against Trump and stuff, but I've met her before. She wrote this piece. She says that the op ed on op ed Trump's fraud case is completely unprecedented, completely and totally unprecedented. So even some Democrats might be wondering, like, guys, are we are we are we creating the KGB?

Yeah, you are. And they're going to come after you next. AOC, they're going to come after you. The beast will eat itself.

It is the snake eating itself. And they might come for us first. But eventually there will be a knock on the door for Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar and all of them. Look, I want to tell you about Donors Trust. We're sponsored today by them, the principal taxed friendly way to simplify your charitable giving. Fidelity Charitable recently released its latest giving report. According to its report, its account holders recommended in 2022 11 billion dollars to nonprofits in the mixed Planned Parenthood Foundation of America. In fact, according to the report, Planned Parenthood was the sixth most popular nonprofit among Fidelity Charitable account holders last year, six out of nearly 200000 unique charities. Does that upset you?

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Take as much time as you need. Finally, a roadmap, finally a blueprint, because, Darren, they are coming after everybody one by one. And you detail this in your piece just for you keeping score at home. James O'Keefe, Tucker Carlson was law fair by other means, but it was civil. Douglas Mackey, Donald Trump, Bannon. Again, I'm not even mentioning everybody. Right. But they are enthusiastically using the instruments of state level, federal level and civil level to destroy the American right. And it's time for us to do the same to them.

Darren Beatty. Absolutely. Well, it's a pleasure to be here, as always, and especially so because this piece, in large part, is a product of conversations that we've had about this very issue throughout my various appearances on this show. And we've both been in agreement for some time now that, number one, the foremost impediment to political progress for the right, but more importantly, the foremost threat to American liberty right now is no longer the issue of big tech censorship, which I think for a long time was the number one issue. That is now supplanted by a deeper and more existential threat, which is the complete political weaponization of the justice system by the left, by the Democrats, in order to imprison anyone associated with Donald Trump, or any patriotic American generally. That's the number one issue. And if we don't solve that issue, nothing else that we're talking about matters. Even winning an election, what's the point in getting the most votes if it becomes literally illegal to question the integrity of an election? You're giving them carte blanche to do what they want.

So this is so critical all the way up from the burying Trump in indictments to ordinary random citizens who get convicted for felonies facing 10 years for a Hillary Clinton meme. This is the issue. So the question is, what do we do about it besides just complain?

And this piece, I'm hoping, is the first major step toward sketching an actual solution, an actual plan, actual blueprint. So simply put, the answer is tit for tat. We have to impose some kind of cost for what the left is doing in order to deter them from going further. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of institutional power at the federal level. But we could potentially create our own sort of reciprocal retaliatory prosecution factories at a more local level, like a Fulton County of the right, or even at the state level, at the state AG level.

And so the first part of this piece, basically, just because a lot of people in the GOP are not only cowards, but they're lazy. This serves up prosecutions, potential indictments on a silver platter, a number of them, and a number of them are along the lines of what we discussed. For instance, the Attorney General of Alabama is a Republican. There is absolutely an indictment to be made associated with the corruption of the SPLC. The SPLC was a scandal-ridden organization. Their leader was recently disgraced just a handful of years ago, under allegations of not only harassment, but ironically, also discrimination.

There's so much more to be told about that story. And I would suspect criminality, given the standards on which the left is prosecuting their political enemies, there's absolutely a legitimate indictment in there. So the Attorney General of Alabama, get on it. We want an indictment for SPLC.

The other example, there are many, I'm just highlighting the most important ones. Our friend, our hero, Ken Paxton. There's a great indictment in this for all the border chaos going on in Texas. Doesn't have to just be a federal issue. He could indict Mayorkas for violation of Texas law, for all kinds of violations. And we adduce exactly how that might play out.

And the list goes on. Eric Holder, not only fast and furious, but his involvement in probably unconstitutional practices in relation to discrimination, all sorts of possible indictments for Eric Holder at the local level through Arizona. So that's the first step is we need to line up potential prosecutions, and we need to identify who would be responsible for this.

So they feel a little bit of pressure saying, hey, if they wanted to, they can go for it. Basically what we need, the recent issue in the House, we saw the amount of difference that somebody like Matt Gaetz can do. What I'm saying in effect here is we need Matt Gaetz's in the DA's offices. We need Matt Gaetz's in the State's Attorney General's office. We need people like that in order to launch a sufficiently robust retaliatory measure against the abuses happening.

And I'm just going to cut in. So I'm going to isolate something you said that was really smart. So Darren, starting around 2018, we started to really launch a campaign about how social media censorship is the existential threat.

And in 18 and in 19 and then January 6, they kept Trump off. I'm not saying we've solved the issue, Darren, but think about how far we've come. TwitterX is far better. It's liberated because Elon Musk purchased it. The American people are distrustful of tech, and we have Missouri going after these tech companies and we have Rumble, a legitimate YouTube competitor. What I'm getting at, Darren, is that things can improve if we focus and we put our energy behind them. I'm not saying we've solved the big tech issue.

It's still a problem. But Darren, I feel much better with that topic than I did two years ago. Do you agree with that and connect it with how we can improve the lawfare landscape now, as now that is now the number one threat on the horizon? Indeed. Well, it's a great point because I think it's absolutely true.

We're very, very far from where we should be, but it is completely fair to say that we're in a much better position now than we were two years ago. That's simply the case. And you know what's interesting is, I think the improvements that we've made on the free speech front have actually played a role in the regime's shift in their approach to lean more directly on the free speech and their approach to lean more directly on the kind of brute force technique of throwing people in prison. You can't platform somebody anymore. You throw them in prison.

That's the logical next step. And we've seen not only that we have more speech online, which is great, but the effectiveness of hit pieces has diminished considerably, I would say, in the past five years. So in one sense, that's great because these journalists who do the hit pieces are scum and disingenuous and all that. But on the other hand, if they're no longer able to use that sort of soft power, if you can even call it that because it's so dirty and disgusting, but that kind of soft power, then their next option is, okay, we can't destroy their reputation. If we can't balance them from speaking online, what's the next step?

Either put them in bankruptcy or put them in jail. And that's why we're in the position we're in. I think it's very much linked, ironically, to the progress that you correctly described in relation to the censorship issue. Yeah.

And again, think about it. We would have Darren on the show years ago and be like, well, it's a big threat that we're kicked off of Twitter. And now we're at a place like, yeah, it's a big threat when the government throws you in prison for 100 years.

This is an act of desperation. There's going to be a moment where finally our side gets it. There's an adjustment period.

And Darren, let's talk about this. The adjustment period, we have to kind of close that window. Remember, for the social media fight, there was an adjustment period, right? For years, we were starting to bubble this up. People said, oh, free market. And then, you know, we exactly we we we we we won that right through brute ideological force.

We pummeled them because their arguments were terrible. The ideological adjustment period for the old school lawyerly types that still have a belief that our justice system is fair and partial and the best in the world. That's that's a big concern of mine.

Yes. I mean, it really is. I think it's partly a generational issue and it's a tough pill to swallow to really fully accept and digest just how far we've gone in the gutter. You know, just every single institution in the country being so corrupt and being so actively hostile to the well-being and the livelihood and the freedom of everyday Americans. That's very hard to accept, especially because I think the psychological disposition of many conservatives is to want to, you know, venerate these legal institutions, institutions of authority generally. But just like, you know, with the tech issue, I think the necessity of recognizing this will have to do the heavy lifting here.

When we're looking and we see that the front runner for president right now, you know, the favorite guy to win not only the nomination, but the entire election is getting hit with all of these ridiculous, obviously politicized charges, criminal and civil. There's no other choice. Either we develop a robust hit-for-tat system and we recognize that this has to be done.

It has to be done. It's all about deterrence, mutually assured destruction. I don't like it.

You don't like it. But if one side has nuclear weapons, we're going to build a bomb. Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here. When the government used emergency edicts during COVID to restrict the gathering and worship of churches, three pastors facing the risk of imprisonment, unlimited fines and their own churches being ripped apart, took a courageous stand and reopened their doors in the face of a world that chose to comply. The Essential Church is a feature length documentary that explores the struggle between the church and government throughout history. The story uncovers those who have sacrificed their lives throughout history for what they believe in. Rediscover why the church is essential and how we prove this stand remains true from a scientific, legal and most importantly, a theological and biblical perspective. This is not your typical movie.

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So go to salemnow.com right now. Darren, we have to change the mentality. And this is not a cause for celebration, but it is a it's a moment of necessity saying that we have political power too, and it's time to use it. When I, you know, speak to some people that are in these orbits, they'll say, but that makes us no better than the other side.

How shall we respond to that, Darren Beatty? Well, I mean, the other side is destroying us. The other side has total full spectrum dominance of every institution in the country. So that's going to be the default reality unless we make some major changes to our approach. So I guess the imperative on the other side is to say, okay, so the consequence of your position is losing and everything that follows from that, given what the left's agenda is, you know, the drag queen agenda, the open borders agenda, the anti white agenda, you name it, that's going to continue going to accelerate, and there's going to be no viable opposition whatsoever. In fact, there's a recent piece out in Newsweek saying that the most robust terrorism category from the standpoint of the FBI and other agencies in the government is MAGA. And keep in mind, Trump is the front runner for president, and the FBI and national security state's posture is that this is the number one threat.

It's going to get a lot, lot worse. So there we don't have the luxury. We just don't have the luxury of these outdated delusions from the 80s. It's just not that country.

It's not the country that Ronald Reagan grew up in or whoever it is. It's just we're in a very different landscape here, and we either adapt or die. But unfortunately, a lot of people have the psychology that they'd rather die. They'd rather die than be called racist by the media. They'd rather die than be called authoritarian. It's a simple choice, but it's amazing that people are so brainwashed and so cowardly and so unimaginative as to what things could actually be like if we got smart, that they just don't see it. But we have to see it. There's simply no choice at this point.

Yeah. And I think some people on our side would rather say, I don't want to dirty my hands, but I'm perfectly fine if the whole country collapses. And that kind of like fake piety and moral pomposity is going to collapse the entire republic.

And that's where we're at. I got to say, people have a range of motivations, but from what I've found is the reluctance here is more a product of just a lack of imagination because people don't understand how much leverage there is at the state and county level. And that's really where the big play is to create this robust retaliatory infrastructure.

It's not at the federal level yet. And people are so federal presidential election brain that they don't see the actual opportunity here. And the way that George Soros saw the opportunity when he effectively bought up all the DAs for the left.

There needs to be a little bit of imagination there to see. And also prioritization is that think of how much dumb money there is. Think of how much money is wasted on meaningless stuff. The money is there.

We need the efficient allocation of resources and the awareness. And hopefully this article contributes to that. And the last point is there's a lot of cowardice because so much of the right is set up to play this kind of fake and performative low stakes game. A lot of people are scared to actually step inside the playpen because I guarantee you this is just the reality.

If the GOP starts making moves in the direction of this article, in the direction of a real retaliatory response, things will get very difficult and very dangerous. And it's hard to do. People don't want to be the person in the arena subjecting themselves to the pain box, subjecting themselves to the prosecutions, the indictments buried in lawsuits and so forth. You're playing a different game when you're actually playing for keeps. And unfortunately, so much of the GOP infrastructure is just not set up for people to really play for keeps.

They're playing for scraps. That's right. Darrins, thanks so much.

Revolver.News. Check out the piece. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always. Freedom at CharlieKirk.com.

Thank you so much for listening and God bless. I want to be a conformist. I want to weaponize my pronouns.

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