The Two Sides of the House Funding Fight with Reps. Byron Donalds and Andy Biggs

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Two opinions on the same topic. Byron Donalds and Andy Biggs joined us to talk about the continuing resolution fight. 930 is in sights and we have all the facts here. Email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com. Get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com. That is tpusa.com. Sorry, high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com.

As always, you can email us freedom at charliekirk.com. Buckle up everybody here. We go.

This is across the country. That's why we are here. Brought to you by the loan experts I trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandtodd.com. Okay, Byron Donalds joins us now. Byron, we spent a whole hour framing the need to balance the budget, to figure out our debt. Byron, you have put forward a plan. Tell us about it.

Charlie, it's good to be with you. A couple of things. Let me first say things are moving fast here on Capitol Hill. But essentially the plan is trying to resolve our ability to pass the appropriation bills that we set out to do months ago.

But the government is going to shut down in about 11 days now. So the idea is let's cut spending 8% across the board and all the federal agencies, and let's actually secure our southern border. Everybody is seeing the trains full of migrants who are making their way to the southern border.

We've seen the migrants who are sleeping in streets in New York and Chicago and every other city of our country. What Joe Biden's done to our southern border is terrible policy. So the plan was essentially let's actually cut spending, get a real conservative policy on the border. And while that's happening, it gives us the ability to negotiate the other spending bills and go from there.

So Byron, I like Matt Gaetz a lot. He says this is a terrible deal. I understand some of the details here.

Obviously, you know it much better than I do. Walk us through what some of his objections are and why you feel this is a solid deal. And there seems to be some disagreement over Jack Smith. Do you have a plan for handling his investigation and the funding of his investigation?

Well, let me say Jack Smith first and I'll work backwards. I think people need to understand that if we're in a government shutdown that does not stop Jack Smith's persecution, his political persecution of President Trump, the Department of Justice and Joe Biden will exempt Jack Smith from the shutdown. They'll still do their work. I believe the better way is let's actually put the Joe Biden and the Democrats on the frankly on the on the line when it comes to the border. Let's actually have an ability where our more moderate members in the conference want to join us in that battle. And it gives us the ability to actually really negotiate the C.J.S. bill. This is the Commerce, Justice and Science bill where the Department of Justice is funded. And that gives us the ability to go after Jack Smith and the weaponization by the Department of Justice.

What's happening right now, Charlie, as I speak, we had a conference meeting this morning. There were members who don't want to vote for a C.R. and I understand why, because like so many Americans, they have been lied to by Republican leadership before. They have been lied to by this government. They have been told we're going to fight on the next thing. And the fight never comes and they can get kicked down the road. So I know why they were upset with the C.R. plan.

I don't want to have to deal with the C.R. plan. But if you want to put Jack Smith in the box, if you want to cut the weaponized up out of this government, if you want to cut spending overall and get us on a fiscal track and preserve our border, we got to shape that in a battle with the Senate over the border.

Chuck Schumer does not want to talk about the border policy. He wants to talk about internal Republican fighting. So I'm going to read Matt Gaetz's tweet here. And Byron, I mean, you're hearing all the objections.

I just want to give you a chance to walk through it. And this is a friendly territory for you to do it. Matt Gaetz says, quote, I want to send Jack Smith and every person who works at the DOJ a message. Byron, comma, your legislation sends him a check. Here is my plan. Signal single subject bills, programmatic reform at DOJ and goes on from there.

He says abandon this disaster. Do you think that maybe what Matt is proposing is unrealistic? No, I'm what I'm saying to Matt and probably to the members who might disagree. And frankly, for Americans who are disagreeing disagreeing with me at this point is that single subject bills wanting to actually go after the Department of Justice.

I want to do that, too. But up here on Capitol Hill, there are members that you have to tactically get into that position. That's the only real difference between us. I know that doesn't seem like you're you're you're using every arrow in your quiver to get it done. But those are the realities on Capitol Hill. I've been involved in these spending negotiations now for four months. I've been imploring House leadership that you've got to cut spending bills down even further or you're not going to have the votes amongst members from the Freedom Caucus to support it.

There's been little movement from the leadership to this point. And so now we're in this battle right now. But I want to stress to you, Charlie, the only way you're going to deal with weaponization at the Department of Justice or the FBI or any other part of our agency. If you want to stop the spying on the American people with FISA and everything else is that you've got to get to the appropriation bills. And if we have members of our conference who sign a discharge petition with the Democrats to essentially do a clean, continuing resolution, we're not going to have any ability to do that. And so it's really a tactical difference between Matt and I. It is not an overall goal difference about wanting to make sure that we end the weaponization in our government for sure.

And your conservative bona fides are exceptional. But, Byron, here's my question. And our audience shares this. So this is only for 30 days. What is the next step that just basically buys you time to continue to negotiate? So walk us through from what you can, without revealing too much inside baseball, the strategy and the tactical premise here. So right now, actually, what came out of this morning is, like I said, there are members who weren't supportive of a continuing resolution. And that's fine.

No pride of authorship here. Now we have members in the room from all parts of the conference who are going over the individual spending bills. That is exactly what we should be doing. And, frankly, we should have been doing it a long time.

But that's not just what happened. And that's water under the bridge at this point. So you've got to be able to land those bills, get them in a place where they can be voted off the floor. In my view, the 30 days gives some of these members political cover. They're in Biden districts.

They're in heavy blue districts. But the border is killing them just as well as it's killing the people on the southern border. And it gives them an ability to pit Eric Adams against Joe Biden, to pit Chuck Schumer against the squad members in the House who want this radical open border policy. Let them fight about their terrible policy on our side of the aisle. Let's get our members together, get through this appropriations process, have the ability to deal with weaponization in our government, secure the border and everything else that needs to occur. So then how do we know that the Biden regime will actually then execute on the border? That's another important issue. If you finance it, will they actually end up executing on it? And then is there any conversations negotiating ongoing with the United States Senate?

So one thing is I want to be clear on this one. What was in the in the continuing resolution was a chart to which is the most conservative border security package has ever passed off the House floor in Congress. It's that bill. And then there are key we call them riders are essentially the policy parameters about making sure that you can't you can't transport migrants in the interior of the country. We completely defund that. It's defunding the CPB one app that has allowed Joe Biden to basically put our asylum process on DoorDash or Uber Eats where people can just get into their app and do it that way. It defunds that it defunds Mayorkas's letter that allows for the transmission of migrants. It defines it defines the ability of agents to no longer make determinations of credible fear.

And this is very technical. But the way border security used to operate is that border agents made a determination of credible fear. And that would stop people from being allowed into the country. Joe Biden got rid of that and they have no ability to make these determinations.

We restore that. At the end of the day, if Joe Biden is in violation of the law, in my view, those are clear articles of impeachment. And then those gives us an ability to fight that out with the courts about his ability to basically ignore the law.

But I think those are issues that look in a political context. We have to bring that to the forefront. All the news channels are covering what's happening at the southern border now.

Even ABC and CNN. They're talking about it now because you cannot hide from this reckless policy. So my view is let's actually put the Democrats in a pinch on that while we handle the other appropriation bills, deal with Jack Smith and the Department of Justice, the FBI and Chris Wray and all these other areas of our government where the radical left has run amok through Nancy Pelosi spending and policies. Balance of nature, changing the world, one life at a time. I try to take care of myself. I try to eat right. And I love fruits and vegetables.

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Go to balanceofnature.com or call 1-800-246-8751 and get this special offer by using discount code Charlie. So, Byron, let me just contribute a little bit of my opinion and you know, the details far better than I do, but I would say just shut the sucker down. I would say that I don't think we need to keep the government open. We need to draw a line in the sand. They're completely out of control. We've gone through government shutdowns before and it's not nearly as dramatic as they think. And I would say if and only if they show that they're not negotiating in good faith. My fear, Byron, is that we're pandering a little bit too much to the moderates like Dusty Johnson.

Where am I wrong here, Byron? Well, first of all, I'll tell you, Charlie, I'm not afraid of government shutdowns. If that happens, that's fine. What I think a lot of people need to understand up here is that we do have members on the more moderate side of our conference. They've actually said it in two meetings I've been involved in over the last hour. They are going to sign off on a clean CR with the Democrats and they'll do it because in their view, in the districts that they represent, that it's better to keep the government open.

I can't control what they do. So my thought, my view of the entire landscape, knowing the members here, having talked with them, having engaged with them for many months is I do think that's what they would do. And so is it better for them to go vote for a clean CR and then there's no ability to negotiate the stuff that we need to do, like taking care of Jack Smith, the weaponization, et cetera? Or is it better to have a serious political and, frankly, budgetary fight over the border and some government spending while we continue the other work to get to Jack Smith and the weaponization?

That's really the difference here, Charlie. It's not about – and look, I get the concerns. People are frustrated with our government.

This government is bloated. It is weaponized. It doesn't do what it does.

It's supposed to do. It's outside the confines of Article I, Section 8 of our Constitution. I agree with all of that, but I know there are members up here who don't want to go through a government shutdown fight. And so looking at that landscape, all I'm saying is I'm looking at the tactics that are being used all around this town, and I want to make sure that the conservative movement, the America First movement gets real wins, not tweets, not talking points, not cool speeches at rallies.

I'm talking about wins, period. And I'm right there with you. My fear is that we do this 30-day rider. Let's just focus on the Jack Smith. And Byron, you and I see this the same way. And again, you're in these meetings.

I do not envy you. And I hope the audience understands Byron's not in an easy spot here. This is dealing with Dusty Johnson, all those people.

God bless you. So Jack Smith, how then do we do it? What is the battle plan? Because that's number one on my list, right?

Total weaponization, terrible. So let's say that you get your way and we pass this 30 days. Then what are the steps then, just so that our audience understands, to take care of, in your words, Jack Smith?

Well, I want to clarify something. I don't really think it should be viewed as getting my way. You know, I put together an idea with Chip and Scott Perry and a couple of members on the moderate side of our conference. As it stands right now, I don't really think the votes are there. But I think the overall strategy is we have to find a way to pass the Justice Appropriations Bill. And in that bill, then what you have to do is you have to defund political prosecutions. You have to get rid of the woke stuff that's at DOJ. You have to actually hold them accountable for weaponization activities, spying on the American people activities, stuff like that.

That's the stuff you bring into that argument. And then you have to find a way to conference that with the Senate. So this goes back to some of the political strategy. If Joe Biden, who frankly is taking naps three times a day, no disrespect to taking naps sometimes is great, but you're the commander in chief.

You've got to be awake all the time. If Joe Biden can't even defend his position on the southern border and Chuck Schumer doesn't want to talk about the southern border, my question is for everybody watching. Does that give us more leverage to deal with the Department of Justice or less leverage? And at the end of the day, here in D.C., everything is a leverage play. I hate it, but that's the reality of what we're dealing with. And so, you know, I've always told my voters back in Southwest Florida and everywhere else, I'm going to tell you what it is and what it's not. That's where we are right now, in my view.

Byron Donalds, thank you for the time. We will see how this unfolds. Final prediction, 30 seconds. How do you think this is going to pull out? Fourteen-ish members say they're not voting for it. So how do you see this developing?

Well, I mean, honestly, Charlie, I really don't know right now. Like I said, members are meeting right now. I'm going to go back into these meetings, seeing if there's a way we can agree to funding levels on the 12 appropriation bills. And when you get to funding levels, then we've got a real policy in these bills. I'm going to focus on that.

I'll give you a prediction later. Byron, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate it. Thank you. All right.

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That is patriotmobile.com slash Charlie or call 878-PATRIOT. I have to say, sometimes people email me stuff and I'll respond to them. They say, thanks so much for the reply. And I just kind of calms down.

So it's it's fine. And you get heated. Look, I would be heated, too, if the government lied to me and took seven percent of my wages for decades. I would get fired up. Of course, I totally get it.

But I would be a hypocrite if I did that whole hour about the threat of debt. And I say, yeah, you know, we just need a short term resolution. And I we heard out Byron Donald's. Byron is 10 out of 10.

He's the best. I don't agree with Byron here. I think we got to be firmer.

I got to be honest. We got we have to say, look, our opening argument is the sucker is getting shut down. That's our opening argument.

Thanks for playing. By the way, government shutdown. I made this point before.

And it's somewhat of a it's a simple, shallow point, but it's very correct. If they're non essential workers go home when there is a government shutdown. Why are they in existence? Why do they have jobs if they're not essential? Kind of reminds you how most of your government is not essential.

Jack Smith does continue, though. And I wanted to give Byron an opportunity to speak out. Look, here's the devil's argument. The devil's advocate.

OK, let me just and I think Byron, this is the motivating action for Byron. If I were to say this is two things. They're worried that the moderates are going to join with Democrats and we get nothing. That's a legitimate fear.

That's not bluffing. But there's another fear, which I don't like, but it's legit. But I don't like drives me nuts, which is Charlie, if we shut down the government, it's going to hurt moderates in their districts. And we're going to lose the House of Representatives. Tyler Boyer from Turning Point Action has been warning us how we are probably going to lose the House next November because of bad redistricting. We are in a bad spot because Republicans did not do their job with redistricting. Politico agrees, by the way.

Politico.com says that the Senate tilts red, the House tilts blue. I hear that argument. I internalize that argument.

I have heard that argument for 11 years. I think we need to do the right thing and then defend the right thing to our voters, not constantly just kick it down and say another election, another election. And I fully acknowledge and admit there is a risk to this. The easy thing is just a dirty CR.

They call it clean, but it's really dirty. Pass it and then let's just go right into 2024, raise a bunch of money and hope that we hold on to the House. At the same time, though, I do not want to be reckless in the pursuit of asking for the world. You might not be happy with what the House of Representatives is doing. You might not be happy with Speaker McCarthy. I hear your emails. But what if I told you you should be happy with what you're not seeing?

What? If the best argument to keep the House red is not for grand sweeping reform, it's for oversight and for the stuff that's not going to happen. You're not going to get D.C. as a state. You're not going to get Puerto Rico as a state. You're not going to get the Electoral College abolished. You're not going to get H.R.

1. That is not an argument that resonates with a lot of people. I get it, but it's real.

It's a real thing. The House being red, at least we do not get the more systemic, constitutionally altering stuff. With that being said, it's time to play hardball. You got to put out, you have to play a risk at some point.

You got to play the hand. We have the House, the country's falling apart, and joining us now is Andy Biggs. Andy, we just had Byron Donalds, heard out his argument. I'm much more in your camp with this, Andy Biggs. I think we need to say, look, here's our line.

Now's the time to play hardball. Walk us through what Byron is proposing and your opinion on it. Okay, so, Charlie, what Byron and some of our friends are proposing is that you do a continuing resolution. You kind of attack just a little bit maybe the spending, not much, because you can't do it much within 30 days. And it's the last 30 days, so you keep most of the Biden, Schumer, Pelosi policies in place.

But then you put down something like H.R. 2, which is the Secure the Border Act, and you put that in there. And then you send it over to the Senate with an idea ostensibly that you send it to the Senate. The Senate will give you a different C.R. coming back, and then you go into a conference committee and vote something out. In the meantime, the Senate will have taken out your border security act and most of your reforms. There's just a few other reforms in there. And so you basically end up with a clean C.R. at the end of the day, a clean continuing resolution. In other words, you can keep spending roughly where you are.

That's where I think you end up, and that's where they are. I don't like that. I think we have an existential crisis, Charlie. I think at some point you have to say, no, somebody said today, but that would give us 30 more days to consider the approach bills.

We've had nine series of 30 days. We've had 270 days at least to do it, and these guys haven't done it, so they've created this false deadline, right? And what that does for us is it leaves us with this notion of we have to do something. And my opinion is, you know what we need to do? We need to draw a line in the sand.

We need to take a position, and we need to say no more. What's happening on the border, whether it's the drugs coming across, the human trafficking, the sex trafficking, the cities along the border and within the United States that are now being overrun. You've got the New York City mayor, for Pete's sake, who's at his wit's end, and he's experienced 110,000 illegal aliens. Imagine if you're Yuma, Arizona, and you've seen, you know, every three months you're seeing about that many or Del Rio or Eagle Pass that had 2,200 people just the other night.

I mean, I don't know exactly if you do something now. Even now, if we can recover from the literally millions of people who've come here from all over the world who don't have the American ethos, who don't have the same connection to the American government, who don't have the same affinity for the American culture. I mean, we are a melting pot, but part of what melting pot means is you come together and you have one idea of culture, one idea of freedom, one idea of your relationship to your government and the rights that are recognized, not given, but recognized and protected by the government. And we're getting overwhelmed, Charlie. I don't know when we're going to say enough is enough. So, Andy, I agree enough is enough and we get political power, you get political power from the voters to fight, right?

And we've been through these and you come on our show a lot, Andy, and it's always the next deadline and the next deadline. So address kind of the silent motive here, which is and they're not saying this, but this is that the moderates are afraid of there's two fears. The moderates are afraid that if we shut down the government, they're all going to get clobbered next November. Always about the next election, right? And then the second one is that the moderates are going to team with the Democrats.

Address those two fears, Andy. Well, OK, so there's no doubt because the moderates have indicated pretty clearly that if we don't do a C.R., they are going to do a discharge petition, take a C.R. out of the drawer of the speaker, put it on the floor, vote with the Democrats and send a clean C.R.

That means that no modifications whatsoever. You're keeping the Biden, Pelosi, Schumer policies, their spending levels, everything. And that's going to go over to the Senate. They've already said that that's the case. The other the other one, though, is is, I think, a little bit more problematic. And that is if you are always saying wait till the next time, the next election, the next leverage point before you take a stand. So let me let me give you an example. A lot of my colleagues supported the the limit, save, grow, whatever that whatever they were calling the the debt ceiling deal they made.

I love these guys. But I told them at the time, Kevin is going to take that one point five trillion dollar debt ceiling that you guys have created in this bill. And by the way, that was for eight months. Right. So you're going to you're going to increase your debt by one and a half trillion dollars over eight months. He's going to take that and he's going to use that as a starting point to negotiate.

And guess what happened? He did use it as a starting point. I was trying to encourage them. Let's make this our stand. And you don't get leverage points every day, Charlie, in Congress. And and this is a leverage point for us.

It's an inflection point. But as the country is spending so much, we're spending ourselves into oblivion. There's been weaponization of the federal government. You've got the border. And you and I both know, because we live in the valley of the sun, gas is up to four seventy five a gallon. And that means inflation is is going to that's that pressure is going to keep driving prices up, certainly in my home state, but around the country. All of those things that are happening.

Crime is rampant everywhere. When you begin to look at these this this series of problems that you can't keep saying we're going to fight it next time. Somebody somebody actually told me the other day, they said, Andy, if we can't we can't get all the stuff that you're looking for us to fight on.

Don't worry. We can fight for some of that stuff next time. And I'm like, at one point, at some point, you've got to say today is the day we're going to fight.

At some point, you actually have to listen to your voters and to draw a line in the sand. For 11 years now, Andy, I've heard, well, next cycle, next cycle, next cycle, next cycle. And we never actually get the fight.

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Use promo code Kirk, my pillow dot com promo code Kirk. Andy, I want to just play this out from a strategic tactical standpoint. Byron is saying, look there and you've said this to they're going to do a, quote unquote, clean CR, which is a dirty CR. And so I guess Byron's calculus is that it's better to get something than nothing and just be kind of left out in the dust. How are you balancing that right now? Because, you know, Dusty Johnson, Don Bacon, Diaz, Baltart, you know, they seem as if they are yearning for no structural changes, no adjustments. So how do we balance those two? Because you and the Freedom Caucus and the conservative wing of the caucus have power, but the moderate seem to be kind of snapping back.

How do we balance that, Andy Biggs? Yeah, so that's what's happening is the majority is so narrow that any four people can move the body. And by the way, we're down a couple, three people as it is.

We had a retirement. We've got someone who's been injured and can't be here on the Republican side. So you move down two or three people and it becomes two people can actually drive or prevent or block the agenda. So I understand where the moderate side of our conference is coming from.

They tell me they represent their constituency. And I say, I understand you're representing your constituency, but at some point we are facing an existential crisis as a nation. And so the point I would make to my friends who say, well, let's at least get something is sticking in language into a bill, a spending bill that you know that the Senate is going to, first of all, immediately take it out. That means that that it's not going to happen. Right. But moreover, even with that language in there, if let's pretend that that he got through and Joe Biden signed it because because we can only do what we can do.

Right. But let's pretend Joe Biden signs it. Charlie, is there anybody who is watching things and is sentient at all that believes that the Biden administration would all of a sudden have an epiphany and start enforcing the border laws of HRT?

Plus those that are on the books. And the answer is no, because this is a lawless administration. They've weaponized their government. They're not going to give us anything. And if we're not going to fight now, when are we going to fight? I mean, that's what I've been saying for years. And I'm told, oh, it's coming, we're going to do it. Yes.

So since, you know, for moderates, you know, they think they have all this power, you know, Don Bacon and Dusty Johnson and all that, it's just how then do we build consensus? Because what's surprising here, Andy, let me ask you this. Were you were you aware that Byron was negotiating this with Dustin Johnson?

Was this a little bit of a surprise? Because I'll be honest, I don't love all this PR splintering. It's kind of a mess right now.

Right. People that I'm really good friends with are on all sorts of different sides. And I'm looking around like, come on, guys, like, don't you have a group chat going or something? Can you walk us through that, Andy? It's a little bit it's awfully dysfunctional, I got to be honest. Charlie, it is awfully dysfunctional.

I mean, I'm not going to lie to you. Look, so they kind of told me that they they wanted to to see see what they could find out from the moderate wing. Leadership was basically drawn out. You know, the speaker's office was drawn out.

Why? Because the speaker's office has done nothing, right? Nothing. And so some of our guys said, well, we'd like to find something. But we had I had no idea what was going on, what was being said.

And then I learned seriously, I was flying back to D.C. Sunday and I got a text message on the flight or a message on the flight saying, hey, there's going to be a conference meeting in a few minutes where they announce some kind of proposal between Dusty Johnson and the several of the Freedom Caucus guys. And I mean, media is asking me about it. I'm like, what? I don't even know what you're talking about. So it was a bit of a surprise. I'm not I'm not going to say that that I'm not going to condemn them.

I think they were trying to do something meaningful. No, I do. And it's just that, Andy, you know, I could talk offline. It doesn't make our job very easy as this media support because I'm getting phone calls. I sent out one tweet and you would have thought that, you know, I said that I'm registering as a Democrat. I got more phone calls on Sunday night. I'm trying to watch Sunday night football or whatever.

And my phone's lighting up. But you guys are going to figure out Andy with you 100 percent, lie in the sand, draw the line and just remind these moderate Republicans. Now we have the power. I say our opening argument is to ask for the order.

It's the art of the deal. Jack Smith, Ukraine border. Those are the three things. Andy, we're out of time. Thank you so much. Thanks, Charlie. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always. Freedom at Charlie Kirk dot com.

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