Facing the Dragon with Vivek Ramaswamy and Rich Baris

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Hey, everybody. Vivek Ramaswamy, who is surging into second place in the Republican field, and Rich Barris, join us. Subscribe to our podcast by opening up your podcast app and type in Charlie Kirk show. Email me as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com. That is tpusa.com. Start a high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com.

Turning Point USA is the way we stop the cultural revolution, is with turningpointusa at tpusa.com. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

Brought to you by the loan experts I trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandtodd.com. Joining us now is Rich Barris. He has a lot of polling that he wants to discuss from the People's Pundit Daily. Rich, you were watching the act conference. What is your response to it? Did you learn anything?

Does it confirm some other big trends that you are seeing? Rich Barris. You know, Charlie, I was actually just saying yesterday, and as always, thanks for having me on. You know, in the 2022 primaries, there was already this fight between the Trump wing, the Turning Point base, right, the war room crowd.

You put it all together. And the traditional wings of the party, or I hate saying traditional, it's just how the media phrases it, and they lost. And I'm not sure that you can win a presidential nomination by ignoring the young base of the party.

So it did, you know, the energy confirmed it, the Turning Point straw poll confirmed it. I really think that was a mistake by Governor DeSantis not going there, especially considering they had the summit with evangelical leaders with Bob Vander Plaatsch. Trump did not go to that, and the media made a lot of hay about that. But in truth, I thought it was a bigger mistake for Ron DeSantis not to go to an event in his own state where the, you know, the real base of his party is. And he wants to be president of Iowa, I guess. You cannot win a nomination by being the president of Iowa.

But we just pulled that state, Charlie. And as you can see from what I sent you, that doesn't even look like that's going to happen. So you needed to appeal to a greater number of people. I've been saying this for a while. MAGA is younger. MAGA is more diverse. MAGA is the future. And you cannot win a Republican nomination doing what Ron DeSantis is doing, which is running a 1990s 2000 style Republican campaign. So, Rich, it's it's confusing to me and I want to make sure it's clear I get hate mails for saying this. But Ron DeSantis is a great governor. Some people, you know, are trying to rewrite history.

We're honest on this show. He's not a good candidate. He's not going in a good direction. He's not a good candidate. He's not a good candidate. He's not a good presidential candidate. He's running a poor campaign.

But he's been a terrifically conservative governor. And, Rich, I'm confused. What is the internal strategy around there?

What is the calculation? Just walk me through it. I mean, I'm a Trump guy, but I'm also an interested patriot who doesn't want to see a conservative governor become so deeply unpopular that it's going to turn Florida blue. I'm not kidding. What what am I missing here, Rich? Because it seems to be a pattern of mistakes.

Rich Barris. It's a tragic story. It's one we've seen a lot on the Republican side, unfortunately, where they take somebody with a bright future and they being the consultant class, they take somebody with a bright future. They see dollar signs around these people. Charlie, the filings just came out. And people like me, even from NBC News to The Washington Post to The New York Times, I hate to say it, but they all see what I see, which is what you and I have been talking about for months.

This is a donor's you-know-what dream. This is not a campaign for the people. This is not a campaign to reach the future of the party. And by the way, it might have been six thousand people in attendance at the turning point. But action conference. But how many people watched online? How many people watch speeches online, clips online? It's a lot more than that. I mean, you know those numbers better than I. Yeah. You know those numbers better than I, Charlie. A lot more than the Bob Vander Plaats event. Give me a break. It was unbelievable. He was obviously told by consultants not to go there because he was afraid of the reception that he was going to get, which, by the way, if you're afraid of turning point activists, how are you going to fare in front of Vladimir Putin?

How are you going to fare in front of Xi Jinping? You can't stand up to the base of your own party? I just it's sad because it's really worse than people are saying when I'm looking at these numbers. I'm looking at a lot of consultants getting rich. I'm looking at a lot of vendors who have failed Republican campaigns time and time again getting rich. I'm looking at millions upon millions of dollars that could have been spent to vote.

You know, it's a more sophisticated get out the vote operation being spent on making them rich. Meanwhile, his poll numbers just completely tank. IBD tip out today. We took a lot of flak because we were the first ones to put him in the teens. Well, at least we still have him at 17. IBD and TIP have him at 14 nationally now. He was 19 percent in our poll in Iowa.

I got to tell you, that stunned me, Charlie. He spent that campaign has spent a lot of money in Iowa. And I was thinking anywhere this guy's going to be at 30, 32 percent. It will be the state of Iowa.

He was not. The entire strategy is built around evangelicals. And Trump had a 31 point lead with evangelicals in Iowa. So overall, Trump was ahead 51 to 19. And we put out that map.

And it's it's just again, it's tragic. It's a tragic story because I don't know a young governor. His age is successful as he was.

I don't know that anyone couldn't have looked at him and said he had a bright future. Why would you do this? And the truth is, look at your look at the FEC filings and then you'll see clear as day.

Why it was easy to convince him to do this and why people tried to convince him. What is it? So hold on, hold on, hold on. What is the S? What are what are in the files? Because people there's been a lot of cattle walling around it. We're running an event and dealing with all sorts of stuff. Tell us about the filings, Rich.

A lot of people don't know about it. His burn rate is through the roof. A burn rate is the basically the ratio. How much have you got coming in versus how much you're putting out their bird? They're churning and burning through the money he's raised. And he has nowhere to go to get money. Because not only have people maxed out, most of his vast majority of his donations not only came from big donors who are maxed out and cannot come back, but not just for the primary Charlie, but most of them have even maxed out for the general election. And then the one out of six that he has remaining cash on hand, which is about $21 million, is actually not really the case. Because one out of $6 of that $21 million can only be used in a general election. So the $21 million is not the case. Because one out of $6 of that $21 million can only be used in a general election. So the truth is, Trump outraised him on what can be used before Iowa and New Hampshire. So again, no low dollar contributions. To be fair, every non-Trump candidate is having problems with low dollar contributions.

But why does this matter? No matter how much money DeSantis' PAC brings in, a PAC cannot run a campaign. There are jobs that need to be run through the campaign.

There are not even jobs like I'm talking about people taking roles. There are things, there are operations that only a campaign can do. You cannot coordinate with the super PAC. So all that will do is make the consulting class even more rich while the campaign flounders. That's why Hillary Clinton had such a hard time shaking off Bernie Sanders. He had low dollar contributions coming in and revitalizing his campaign. Trump has always been a low dollar, you know, bull when it came to raising money.

So he never had this problem of his donors maxing out. So he's really, and there's been a lot of comparisons made in the last couple of days looking at this, these reports to Scott Walker in 2016. This is the same warning signs we saw flashing with Scott Walker and his money situation.

And he didn't even make it to a single state, Charlie. So this is very real. This is a very real problem. However, remember, again, the consultants, they're millions richer, millions richer.

The vendors, millions richer. It's tragedy. I love the framing of the tragedy because in some ways, you know, there's, we want everyone to be the best version of themselves.

He has a terrific record. And so then, you know, I was chatting with somebody and texting who is a DeSantis person. And they said, oh, Charlie, you know, I would have given the same advice for Ron DeSantis not to show up, which is just so silly. And they said, they said, what would you have expected him to do? I'd say, look, just take a little bit of a pay. I mean, obviously, they don't listen to people like me because they think they know better.

But when you have a problem, confront it or just do an open mic and say, if you disagree, let's chat. Do you understand the virality, Rich? That would have been right. I mean, you have 6000 grassroots activists. And honestly, Ron DeSantis is a smart guy. If I would advise him Ron DeSantis, I'd look him in the eyes, be like, you're tough.

You're smart. Lean in, man. Have a have a viral grassroots moment. Listen to people, clarify the misconceptions and you're in a dominance. You're in a dominance struggle with an alpha beast. You don't do that by avoidance.

You don't do that. And you're right, Rich. Now that his campaign is going down, people don't want to give money. He's laying off staff and it's going down the he's going down to the polls. All right.

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Go to public askew dot com. So, Rich, 95 percent of turning point action attendees of all ages, backgrounds and income levels say that we should not send money to Ukraine. Yet 99 percent of Republican politicians are enthusiastic to spend 200 billion. We've spent 200 billion. You know, it's so funny.

I'm here in Wisconsin. And a year ago, Rich, I did a podcast here in this very room with Senator Kramer from North Dakota. And at the time we'd spent 40 billion dollars. And I said, well, you know, what if we end up spending 130, 150?

And I was almost dismissed as if that would be an unconscionable amount of money. We're at 200 billion now, Rich Barris. One year later, I hate to say we were right. And the experts in D.C. were wrong. We're on pace for a trillion.

We'll do I think we're going to do a trillion. Rich Barris, why are Republican politicians so hostilely out of touch with their voters? Yeah, I think that's going to come to an end here soon, Charlie. You know, I sometimes wonder about the future of the Republican Party, because, you know, any time in American history a party has not been responsive to their voters, it does not last. You know, the Republican Party does not have some kind of like special sticker stuck to it where it's going to be exempt from the rules of history. I think they're going to have a reckoning this cycle.

I really do. You know, it's funny because just to go back to what we were saying in the last segment, immediately that poll that did come out today, which J.D. Vance, someone who has been pushing back on Ukraine spending, he commented on it. And it's like this inability for these people, they don't have the ability to listen to criticism, Charlie, or they tune it out. They're like petulant little children. They stick their fingers in the ear and la, la, la, la, instead of paying attention to what people are saying and, you know, giving them the respect they deserve, that their grievance may be legitimate. They feel that they could just ignore it and go on and continue to ignore it and still somehow their condition will improve. That's not how it works. Over time, there has to be this release valve, Charlie, you know, where anger and frustration with your politicians not listening to you, eventually something releases.

Otherwise, it gets to a boiling point. And I think this election, I think a lot of Republicans are going to I think they're going to hit a reckoning because, you know, there will be it's still early in the cycle and there will be people who rise to make some of these people answer or, you know, be accountable for some of these votes. It has been very clear for a year or more that Republicans didn't want anything to do with this, especially the base. They wanted nothing to do with this, and yet they wasted all of this money. And then they want to argue that they're the fiscally conservative one.

It doesn't work, doesn't jive. It's a big part of the Republican identity crisis. And one way or another, that crisis is going to get solved because it will be hammered out one way or another. So, Rich, in closing here, Vivek Ramaswamy won 50 percent of our second choice. I believe he's going to pop into second place as a contender above Ron DeSantis, which is amazing because Vivek Ramaswamy started basically at zero. He is not the governor of a major swing state. He's not a governor who has done amazing things like Ron DeSantis.

And so it goes to show that the Republican base, it really is a it's an open question. So, Vivek Ramaswamy, what do you attribute all this to? He's been he's he's played a lot of these key issues, very, very smart from Ukraine to the indictments. And that, I think, was a major problem with DeSantis, which is just as voters were looking at him as when he made a mistake with Tucker over Ukraine, just when voters were giving him the most scrutiny, the most, you know, you know, they were they were giving him a look just as he did that.

He made the wrong decision with the how he handled the indictments. Vivek has always been very smart with this and the the new line of attack this week, seeing that Vivek is coming up on their heels. Team DeSantis wants to point to some of the things Vivek had done during the pandemic, and that's not going to land, Charlie.

And I'm going to tell you why it hasn't hurt Vivek so far, because the truth is everyone fell for the pandemic nonsense. Everybody at some point fell for the lockdown. Everyone at some point fell from or mostly everybody. And those who didn't were not politicians or not political figures. Right. They were private people. They were pundits. They were show hosts. Right. Most of the politicians.

The only question is, how quick did you come out of your days? That has always been the real question. So it doesn't land because it's not honest. So when they dig up old tweets of Vivek and they put them out there, it's not honest, because we all saw the governor, you know, praising the jab and how readily available they were for for the elderly in Florida.

It's not going to work. He fundamentally misread the electorate. Vivek has never tried to make an enemy of the majority of the primary vote. And that is what not just Ron DeSantis campaign, but a lot of these campaigns have done.

Mike Pence, Asa Hutchinson, even to some extent, Nikki Haley. You've got to give her credit. She is what she is. And she never tries to be anything different. Right. You have got to give her credit for that.

Well, the rest of them, you know, tried to make enemies out of the majority. You can't do it. You can't win an election like that, Charlie. Rich Barris, check out People's Pundits and Big Data Poll. Rich, thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. With us now is Vivek Rameswamy, who got 50 percent of the second choice for president. Vivek was kind enough to come down to our event. He gave a barn burner speech. He then had an influencer reception afterwards.

And I believe he'll be rewarded by the six thousand Mavens that we had in the room, super activists and the well over 50 million people that saw clips were part of the event. Vivek Rameswamy, tell us how you believe the campaign is going. I see I see real momentum for you.

Yeah, thanks, Charlie. The campaign is going really well. Frankly, I'm sticking to the same strategy we started with, which is speak the truth without apology. Don't poll test things. In fact, there are some of the things that I've said that before I was actually planning to say them, some of the policy proposals I've adopted, my campaign team insisted on poll testing them.

They didn't do that well. And I still come out with my own convictions anyway. That's actually been working well for us because I think voters can tell the difference between somebody who's just trying to pander and tell them what they want to hear versus somebody who actually tells them and gives them their true beliefs. And so I'm going to stick to that strategy.

It's working well for us so far. I do think that there's something that I'm trying to bring to this campaign, Charlie, that's a little bit different, which is that I am genuinely an optimistic person and push come to shove. I'm actually optimistic for our nation, but I'm not a big believer in kumbaya. It's morning in America again until we have reconciled ourselves with the truth of what happened in the last eight years, in the last four years in particular, even the touchy subjects of 2020 in particular. And so I think that combination of my willingness to unsparingly recognize the truth about covid, about the election, about exactly what happened with censorship in this country, about what's happening in Ukraine now. But on the other side of that, to say that if we get this right, we can still be in our ascent. That is my true belief. I think there's something about that message that's really landing with people. I'm grateful for it.

And I think we're just getting warmed up. One of the most insightful things you said, Vivek, I want you to walk through it in great detail. We have some time here is your diagnosis on January 6, which makes so much sense. And you repeated it at the Turning Point Action Conference. This is considered to be a heresy in the mainstream narrative because the only acceptable narrative on January 6 is that this was a rebellion, insurrection brought to you by Donald Trump, try to overthrow our government.

You have a different take on it, which I think is an incredibly important contribution to the zeitgeist. How should we think about January 6, Vivek Ramaswamy? First of all, Charlie, I don't think we can really move forward and heal as a country until we come to terms with exactly what happened, not just on January 6, but in the year 2020 leading up to it. I think January 6 was the culmination of what you see when a culture censors people from speaking, when a government repeatedly tells people and I'm talking about the administrative state here, not the elected government, tells people to shut up, sit down and do as they're told. That's what happened in the year 2020.

Think about that. That was the 12 months leading up to January 6. We have lockdowns in this country. Told you had to hide in your basement.

Stay locked down while BLM and Antifa roamed the cities of this country freely, burning many of them to the ground. You were told that you had to take a vaccine when normally, and by the way, I've been in biotech. You have to take 10 years to develop a medicine for the public to believe that it's safe and effective. You can't even choose to take one that hasn't been through that. And yet here is something that went through the process in less than one year.

You couldn't choose not to take it. You were told that all of this, all of the grievances and vengeance that you wanted to get up on the table, you could do that through an election, through the democratic process. And yet on the eve of that election, the most damning story about one of the two candidates, Biden, his son, and being compromised financially by our enemies from Ukraine, from China in the case of an enemy, to Ukraine in the case of a corrupt actor, it had to be suppressed. You couldn't even send that on your social media accounts to individual people without being silenced. So if you think about the systematic silencing, using tech companies to silence anti-lockdown speech through the back door that government could not censor through the front door under the Constitution, you have a repeated pattern of telling people they can't speak. Then when they step up and start to protest in various civil ways across the country, now you tell them they can't scream. Well, if you tell people they can't speak, that's when they scream. And what I said on stage at the conference is you tell people they cannot scream.

That is when they tear things down. And my concern, Charlie, is unless we reconcile ourselves with what the truth of the matter was that led to January 6th, that's really just going to be a friendly preview of what's to come in this country. I don't want to see a national divorce. I want to see a national revival, one nation under God, e pluribus unum, from many one.

We are long for one nation, one America. But we're not going to get there by just saying, hey, we're going to sweep all of that under the rug and just move on to be a shining city on the hill, claim it's morning again in America. We can't get there without being honest about the truth of how we got to where we are. And I think it is so easy to point the finger at one man and say, oh, you were responsible for what happened on that day. We're going to be sanctimoniously indicting one individual without actually taking a long, hard look in the mirror. And I didn't say this part of the stage, but I think it's true, Charlie, is I think every American has to look, especially much of the left in this country that denounces January 6th and the supposed threats to our democracy. Everyone in this country has to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask ourselves what role each of us played in getting to that day. And once we're honest about that, then we've had all of our cards on the table. We can then have a conversation about how we heal and move forward as a country, which I care about.

But we're not going to get there without honesty. Well, but the regime doesn't want healing. You do. I do. I'd love to have the country I grew up in. I'd love to be able to go to a sports game and not care about the politics of the person next to me.

I actually think that's really healthy and a beautiful country. I would love not to have to think about politics every single day. There's a lot of depth in life that I think we're missing out on because we're on the surface level of a power struggle. Totally necessary.

I'm not saying it's I'm not saying it's it's inconsequential. It's totally what we need to be doing. But I think you would agree, Vivek, that there is a beauty of life that is outside of just which which which side is going to then be able to call the shots.

We need to because the godless Marxists are destroying the country. So they speak a little bit then also about the Ukrainian issue. You had a very good interview with Tucker Carlson.

I think you won that whole thing. The neocons were out in full force, kind of find like they're basically trying to compete. Who could send the most cluster bombs to kill the most amount of civilians and children in eastern Ukraine? America has no business involving ourselves in a thuggish border dispute between two bad actors. Vivek, how should we think about Ukraine? The way we should think about it is protect American interests. We should not use our money to protect somebody else's border when we could use that same money and that same military to protect our own southern border.

And a conversation that doesn't get talked about enough, Charlie, our own northern border eventually, too. It's like a hydraulic pump. You squeeze it in one place. It's going to show up in the next place, too. So that's where I think our focus ought to be. But in Ukraine in particular, it's actually staggering. Even in that lead up to 2020, what was in the Hunter Biden laptop? Five million dollar payment to Hunter Biden, the part of the Biden family that's now using two hundred billion dollars of American taxpayer money to that same nation. These things are not unrelated.

I think they're deeply related. Now, my view is that we should end the Ukraine war with a clean peace treaty that advances an American interest. I would freeze the current lines of control. I would further make a hard commitment that NATO should not admit Ukraine. This is not some paragon of democracy. This is a country where you have a leader in power that is going after churches and pastors in his own country, that has shut down 11 opposition parties in his own country, that has consolidated media into one state media arm. That Zelensky is some model for democracy is a joke. It's laughable.

But anyway, that's beside the point. We shouldn't admit them to NATO. And what I would say to Putin in return is we're doing a deal. You get that out of this deal.

Here's what we need. You exit your military partnership with China. I do worry about the China Russia military alliance. I don't think that we want two allied nuclear superpowers in the form of Russia and China. And I think that's a deal that Putin would do if we also reopen economic relations with Russia, which I would favor as part of this deal. And I think it is disastrous, Charlie, that NATO has expanded far more after the fall of the USSR than ever did during the USSR's existence, when supposedly the purpose of the institution was to deter the USSR. Now NATO is taking us closer to nuclear war with Russia. I think this is a disastrous mistake.

I would end it. And I am disappointed, Charlie, that most of the Republican Party, nearly the entire Republican field, save for Trump and myself, is on the same side of this issue as Joe Biden is. And so this is probably the most important foreign policy issue of our time. Foreign policy is, I think, arguably the top priority of the U.S. president, certainly on the global stage.

And yet nearly the entire Republican Party and Republican field of presidential candidates is lock, stock and barrel with from Joe Biden to Liz Cheney, who needs them when you have the existence of the rest of that Republican field. And so that's why I'm particularly vocal and passionate about this topic. And the idolatry of NATO, I think it's probably been a good idea. But when an alliance drags you into wars, they've gone seriously awry.

It's just it's just incredible to make your moral clarity on this is great. The only thing that Ukraine itself has become something of a religion. NATO should have been a task force. And the problem is, whether it's here at home or WHO or the U.N., things that should have been task forces outlive their purpose. And then that's when they become corrupt. So that's my view on it. No, they are. It's a religion of neoliberalism.

And Ukraine is the like holy ark of the covenant of modern neoliberalism. You cannot criticize it. You must protect it at all costs. I don't love doing this, but I do love your attitude. You want to lean in to any of the whispers of the chatter? And I got a lot of emails about this and I think you've addressed it before. But look, you know, politics is not a fair sport.

People are saying you have World Economic Forum or George Soros ties or connections. But the floor is yours uninterrupted. What is the truth? That's what the whole campaign is about, Charlie. And my view is, you know what?

If I were somebody else sitting on the outside who had never heard of me and there's this guy who's suddenly surging out of nowhere, I would have the same questions. And so I'm asking people to elect me as their president. Yes, I should be vetted and we should have it out in the open. Let me address the World Economic Forum allegations first. So what happened was a few years ago, the World Economic Forum asked to give me an award as a young global leader.

Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk and others show up on the list of people who have received this award. This was mysterious because I have been one of the biggest critics of not only ESG, but the entire World Economic Forum agenda. No bigger critic of it from Woking to my most recent book criticizing the ESG movement.

And so this is a bit of a mystery. So I declined the award. I said our values do not match. I respectfully decline. I'm always open to debate our views in the open, but I declined the award. A few months later, I get a phone call saying from a bunch of people saying, oh, congratulations, you've been named as a young global leader for the World Economic Forum. I said, this must be a mistake.

I called a contact. What the guy says is, oh no, you don't understand. This is going to open up so many more connections for you. And here's all the great people who have won this award in the past. And so I said, I told you clearly, I declined the award. I decline it now to take me off your site.

I don't want the award. And I'm going to be very clear about that as I was before. Put it in writing both times. They refused to take my name off. Now, what they now say is that that was them being dilettantes around this or whatever.

They kept doing it over a period of a couple of years. So I sued them. I filed a landmark lawsuit in litigation against the World Economic Forum because I don't believe in perpetuating lies. And to be honest with you, if they can do it to me, they can do that to anybody. So it makes me wonder about some of those other people, whether they consented as well from actually Elon Musk to even Glenn Beck, who I was talking to said he was named on something by them without his consent either. And so my bet is that Glenn Beck, he certainly told me he didn't consent to it either.

But even Elon Musk suggested that he wasn't consenting to it either yet still being named on their list. But in my case, I wanted to take further action. Charlie, as you know, I like to act on my convictions.

I sued them. And I believe that this is exactly how we deliver accountability. Now, here's what I've seen more recently. And people should be skeptical of what they see on the Internet. So there's been an article now circulating recently. This might be what some of your listeners were responding to, saying that no, no, no. How could Vivek be doing this?

Because he's attended the World Economic Forum of Davos in all of these years. And I was like, that's really weird because I never have. Turns out that was generated by Chet GPT. A.I., OK, an A.I. based made up article that literally on the Internet, you couldn't tell if somebody took a screenshot of it. Nobody can find the original article, but there's screenshots of that now circulating the Internet, literally made by Chet GPT. Totally false. Never been to the World Economic Forum.

Never been on any of their committees. Things that it says in there. And I just think it says, unfortunately, in the modern era, you have to be skeptical of everything you hear. Well, it turns out a lot of that is outright false. So that's on the World Economic Forum. Well, and I also I want to defend you here, Vivek. No, I want to defend you in this way, because, look, getting started in politics and all this, the World Economic Forum, especially six or seven years ago, was not exactly exposed in the mainstream of conservatism. I was never specifically invited, but there was kind of like, oh, I'm going to Davos, going to Switzerland, good networking and panels and all this. The World Economic Forum largely revealed their agenda post covid. And it's also I want to be very precise, everybody.

It's understandable to have skepticism on it. But it also let's pretend Vivek did go to Davos, which he didn't. What did he do there? What did he say? What was his tone? Just merely showing up to something does not necessarily it's like saying, you know, Charlie, you went and showed up at Brown University. Well, yeah, I debated with them for the entire time.

Right. And so merely showing up to something or merely being in the in the kind of proximity of somebody. How did and by the way, Trump went to Davos, too. How did you act? What did you say? What do you believe?

Vivek, we have 20 seconds. Please summarize. Sum it all up.

Yes. So the bottom line is in this particular case, I actually didn't. And there's not everything I'm going to take credit for being early on, Charlie.

But this is one of them. Before anybody was talking about stakeholder capitalism or woke capitalism or anything else. I actually did believe in indicting the World Economic Forum for their agenda.

So my whole first book was about. But in this case, I think it's good for people to be skeptical. I'm asking people to be the next president.

Very similar situation. If we have time to address it now, Charlie, I don't know with people talking about a scholarship that I want, which is. Yeah, but we'll talk. The good news is stay skeptical. I love it, guys. Vivek, we're going to have a long form interview with you. I think it'll be the most interesting that we have in some time.

Keep keep searching Vivek Ramaswamy. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us your thoughts. There's always freedom at Charlie Kirk dot com. Thank you so much for listening. And God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to Charlie Kirk dot com. You've spoken and we've heard you loud and clear. We're proud to announce our brand new ACLJ life and liberty drive. Our legal teams will be focusing on the issues that you are. Our ACLJ members have told us matter the most to you, life and religious liberty. We're redoubling our efforts to beat back the radical left's attack on your constitutional religious freedoms and to defend the sanctity of human life. This is your moment to get in the fight. Every tax deductible gift will be doubled. Join the ACLJ in the fight to keep America free.