The Birthright Citizenship Scam + The DeSantis Tragedy with Michael Anton and Mike Cernovich

The US dollar has lost 85% of its value since the 70s, when the dollar decoupled from gold, and the government seems bent on continuing the tradition.

Charlie Kirk here. From now until after the elections, the government can print as much money as they want. The last time they did that, inflation went up 9%. Gold is the only asset that has proven to withstand inflation. Invest in gold with Noble Gold Investments. You will get a 24-carat, one-fourth of an ounce gold standard coin for free. Just use promo code KIRK. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

That's noblegoldinvestments.com, the only gold company I trust. Hey everybody, today on The Charlie Kirk Show, Michael Anton joins us to talk about birthright citizenship. We talk about the 14th amendment, and then we are joined by Mike Cernovich to talk about the tragedy of the DeSantis campaign. Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com, subscribe to our podcast, open up your podcast app and type in charliekirkshow, get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com, that is tpusa.com, start a high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com, become a member, members.charliekirk.com, and listen to the end of this episode for a special giveaway opportunity.

Buckle up everybody, here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie, he's an incredible guy, his spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

Brought to you by the loan experts I trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandtodd.com. There's some breaking news, we're not going to emphasize this, but in addition to the federal charges that we expect against Donald Trump, the extent of which we are not sure, Georgia looks like it is winding up, long wind up to use a baseball pitcher analogy. Fulton County case against Trump might be the most serious yet. Fannie Willis is ready to go all in, eyeing criminal solicitation charges and Trump inquiry of criminal conspiracy based on a phone call where he said, can you go find votes? Find votes.

So that is getting really wound up. So you're going to have New York with Alvin Bragg, you're going to have Department of Justice Florida documents, and then you're going to have Department of Justice, whether it be insurrection, seditious conspiracy, rebellion, January 6 related stuff remains to be seen. And then we have Georgia, and in Georgia, the governor, Brian Kemp, even though he's a Republican, he hates Trump and vice versa, he's not able to pardon Donald Trump. There's a pardon board of people that are all appointed by the governor, and we've controlled that office for the last 20 years, but somehow the pardon board isn't one that would just shoot down a sham prosecution like this, especially how Donald Trump has gone scorched earth against the good old boys network in the state of Georgia. Georgia has actually more counties per capita than any state in the country. There's a lot of localized political power in Georgia, a lot of dog catchers, mosquito abatement district, school board members, mayors that you have to brown nose to be able to win in Georgia. And by the way, Donald Trump said, hey, can you go find me?

He did not say go steal or fabricate or find me. And I believe the phone call was recorded by Brad Raffensperger. Georgia was the most Democrat state in the country for a century after the Civil War. Georgia is a very unusual state.

It has a lot of Hollywood influence because of the tax incentive structure to have films in the bucket area, obviously has a significant black population. And Atlanta, I'll be very honest, Atlanta is not my favorite place. I love Georgia. Georgia is a great state. I do not like Atlanta. Atlanta is like top three cities where I'm just not happy to be there.

I'll be honest, not a great place. But I love Georgia. Georgia has some of the most beautiful places in the world. Savannah, Georgia, for example, is just an extraordinary city. Augusta is really nice. And so Georgia is a great place.

Atlanta is not my favorite place. But Georgia has turned and largely turned because of mass mail-in voting. In 2018, Georgia had 248,000 mail-in ballots. And now this last cycle, they had somewhere between 2.4 to 2.5 million.

We can get the exact number. But it was about a tenfold increase. Mass mail-in voting. Stacey Abrams, who we used to mock, became this incredibly vicious community organizer. She threatened to sue Brian Kemp and — not threatened. She actually was suing Brian Kemp and Raffensperger. They signed a consent decree, different than the RNC's consent decree from multiple decades ago, that basically Brian Kemp and Raffensperger relaxed the signature verification threshold. This happened coincidentally right before COVID was a thing.

This was all in the spring of 2020. This is the secret — not the secret, but the kind of just not talked about way that we lost Georgia. So you have all these dynamics happening. And just remember the time and sequence of events. All this is tied together.

It's all harmonized, right? So Georgia is a state that we thought we were going to win automatically. But if you were reading all the kind of intelligentsia left-wing blogs, New York Times and all this, they were incredibly bullish on Georgia in August and September.

October 2020. I personally dismissed it. I thought it was just kind of like, oh, we're going to win Texas type stuff. And they always like fall 8 to 15 points short. But they knew something was in. They knew the fix was in as far as the mass mail-in voting. The Trump campaign did not dedicate a lot of time, energy or resources. Remember, Obama nearly won Georgia in 2008. That's a little bit deceiving because it was Obama 08, McCain was an awful candidate, high black turnout, right? But remember, it wasn't just the presidency.

That was very disappointing. But we should have had Senator David Perdue win without a runoff. So then we go to January 5th, not January 6th.

People forget this. January 5th was the runoff. January 5th was the Georgia runoff.

The day before, obviously, all the events on January 6th. January 5th, you had Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue both fall short in the runoff to Raphael Warnock and John Ossoff, which ceded control of the United States Senate. A Senate that could have at least slowed down some of the Biden nominees.

A Senate that could have locked down this Katangie Brown Jackson nutcase that is now in the Supreme Court. So the Georgia reconfiguration was a master plan by Mark Elias and Stacey Abrams and Lorene Powell-Jobs and George Soros and Arabella advisors and America Votes. And, I mean, of course, they had all the Fulton County, Cobb County slowing down, stopping to count ballots.

But Donald Trump made a certain calculation. This helped, by the way, Donald Trump in states like Ohio. Going after the good old boys network in certain states helped Donald Trump. It hurt him significantly in Georgia. If you do not pander to the southern hospitality, not just southern hospitality, but it's just relationships are a big deal south of the Mason-Dixon line in politics.

They just are. There's a lot of graft, and both parties, by the way, but especially the Republican Party, a lot of graft, a lot of corruption, a lot of backslapping. Okay, now we have Michael Anton as I set that up on a separate topic, who I think is the most gifted and talented essayist and writer in the conservative movement.

Michael, welcome to the program. I want to talk specifically about the idea of birthright citizenship, 14th Amendment. Where do people get this most wrong? Well, they interpret a clause in the middle, a parenthetical clause that reads subject to the jurisdiction of the United States in the 14th Amendment as requiring birthright citizenship, when that is not what the drafters of the 14th Amendment intended.

Now, this gets very much into the weeds. I've written about it at length. So what the court said in Wong Kim Ark was that the child of legal permanent residence could be allowed back in. It only ruled on that question. It did not rule on the question of the legal status of the children of illegal immigrants, people who cross the border illegally, who overstayed a visa, who were vacationing or working temporarily in the United States, but without any kind of legal status to reside in the United States. That has never been decided on, not only by the Supreme Court, but by the court at any level. So what happened is sometime in the middle of the 20th century, after World War II, and really in the 60s, the federal bureaucracy just started granting citizenship to anyone born.

And remember, this is a complicated issue because there's a state question, right? There's still no such thing as a federal birth certificate. Any of us who lived through the Obama birth certificate brouhaha of 2008, 2012 remembers this, right? Birth certificates are issued by the states. And without being told by any higher authority, whether court or executive authority, the states would just say, you know, we can certify that you were born in the United States. And then the federal government started to say, well, if your state birth certificate says you were born in the United States, we're going to say that that amounts to citizenship. Now, again, this is just something that the bureaucracy, the government decided to do on its own without being told. Granted that many people in the Democratic Party and the Republican Party liked the outcome of the policy, so they declined to stop it. And now and for, I don't know, at least a generation, they have been pretending that this was intended by law and intended by the 14th Amendment all along. But in fact, that's not true. There's no law that says this. There's no court decision that says this.

There's not even an executive order that says this. And so as a result, you get not only the normal abuse that we're used to, that is to say, you know, people crossing the border illegally, obviously coming for a better life. I understand why people come from south of the border or why many or if not most people come from south of the border into the United States, because they're coming from poorer countries, often much more violent and dangerous countries.

And they know they're going to have a better life for themselves and for their children. But it still breaks U.S. law. And there is no legal reason for their children to have citizenship simply by virtue of being born here. So let me ask you, Michael, so this has not been in the last 100 years, what I understand, challenged at the United States Supreme Court base. I mean, it's just this is not even an executive order. This is just bureaucratic precedent that the administrative state decided upon. That's fascinating. The federal government for a long time has just decided if you can produce a state birth certificate that affirms that you were born on U.S. soil, you're a U.S. citizen. They've never been told to do this by Congress, by the Constitution or by the courts or even by executive order. They just do it.

This is one of the most important things for a civilization to basically get right. How rare is this in the Western world? I mean, France, Spain have gotten rid of birthright citizenship.

I wish I'd known you're going to ask that because I had the exact numbers for a piece that I wrote. And I don't know. But it's about 80 percent of countries do not offer birthright citizenship. It's something about like 20 percent do. And those 20 percent are overwhelmingly in the Western hemisphere, although not exclusively. But pretty much nobody in Europe, Asia, the rest of the world offers this. And if you go not just by number of countries, but by population, you know, because some countries are bigger than others, it's something like almost 90 percent of the world's population live in a country that does not offer birthright citizenship. And one other important fact, countries have had it and then moved away from it, have gotten rid of it. But in the last 50, 60, 70 years, no country has moved in the direction of more birthright citizenship.

They've only moved in the direction of restricting. So, so, Michael, is it time for a Supreme Court challenge, considering the Supreme Court is more sane than insane right now? Well, you know, I usually I'm wary of claiming on things like that under my own name because I don't watch the court carefully. I know some people who really understand the court extremely well. I'll just name one name you're probably familiar with. That's Theo Wald, who's now the solicitor general of Idaho. He's a close friend and a lawyer and his wife is a lawyer.

And, you know, he's tied in and he would have a much better sense of what the likely outcome of the challenge is. I think, though, that the way to approach this is to start small and go for the obvious abuses first. Now, obviously, with the Biden administration in power, you know, none of this is going to happen. But the most obvious abuse is so-called birth tourism, where, you know, people, not poor people, but by definition, rich or at least affluent people from Russia and China, scheduled to have babies in the United States.

Southern California is a big destination, as is Southern Florida. So they fly in six weeks before the birth. There are whole hospitals and industries that are geared toward taking care of these people. They have the birth. They get their child a U.S. birth certificate. They make sure to go and get a passport as quickly as possible.

And then they go home, you know, with the idea that, well, they need the option. They can always come back, essentially, on the backs of their child status. That is an obvious abuse of the system that even if you believed the framers of the 14th Amendment intended birthright citizenship for the children of illegals, which I don't believe and I don't think the text supports.

But even if you believed that, you'd have to admit that they certainly did not intend for birth tourism in the age of jumbo jetliners flying in rich people from, you know, hostile or adversarial countries to take advantage of U.S. citizenship. I don't want to say laws because these are not the laws, but misguided citizenship practices. So I would start there with that obvious abuse where you're going to get 80% at least of the American people agreeing, this is terrible. This should not take place. These are people exploiting us.

We have to stop that and then work your way up toward the correction of the more widespread abuses. This is the big, the buried lead, and it ties to your other story here, Michael. The deep state is gearing up to fight a second Trump presidency. You think about gay marriage, Obergefell, this issue.

Congress is not participating in this Roe versus Wade. This is administrative state and courts and largely bureaucrats that are unelected, unaccountable, and this fourth branch of government, this leviathan that is calling shots. So Michael, tell us about this article you wrote for The Telegraph, the deep state is gearing up to fight a second Trump presidency.

Tell us about this. Well, look, I mean, I'm sort of on record saying that I don't expect a second Trump presidency to happen, and I hope I don't upset any of my Trump supporting friends by saying that, and I'm not saying that because, you know, out of any disdain for Trump or for the movement or for the things that he represents, I just think that the forces arrayed against him are incredibly strong, and I don't see the counterforce arrayed against him as being nearly as strong to overcome what the deep state, plus not just the deep state, but what the tech companies and what the financial firms and what the foundations and the media and every, you know, and the Zuckerbergs and you name it can throw against him. Plus, all you have to do is read what these people say, and I unfortunately do maybe more of that than I should, but they're quite clear that they think Donald Trump is the biggest threat to America since, you know, 9-11 or even before that, bigger than Pearl Harbor, I've heard some people say it, and so they therefore think that they're justified in doing absolutely anything to stop him, and I take them seriously when they say that, and that means that they'll use any and all of their powers to make sure that there isn't another Trump presidency, and since they have a lot of powers, I unfortunately take seriously the fact that I think they can block it, and I think they will block it and I tend to block it, and what I'm not yet seeing is enough countervailing force, you know, and not just force, but like the political savvy, the institutional savvy, the institutional infrastructure, legal challenges to all these voting changes that make things easier for Democrats and harder on Republicans, and so on and so on and so forth.

I'm not seeing enough organization money and serious effort to oppose that, and so right now it looks like a pretty lopsided fight. I agree, and by the way, you want to talk about someone who understands Machiavelli very well, and I'm going to learn a lot about Machiavelli in the next couple months. It's Michael Anton, who sees this super fairly looking at this with prudence and practical judgment and with wisdom and not hopium. Anything you want to plug, books, articles? I'm working on a lot of stuff right now. I guess my next thing is, well, you could look at something I just published on Compact called The Pessimistic Case for the Future. It's a little bit of a downer, I hope it stirs thought. It's also the first chapter in a brand new book published by the Claremont Institute, edited by my colleague Arthur Millick, that has, I think, 18 authors, all of which are going into different issues of why conservatism needs to change, called Up From Conservatism. And then one other thing is my next article, which I'm finishing now, which will be out in the Claremont Review of Books, so I guess in the next issue, so let's say a month or so, is a review of Patrick Deneen's, I think, very important book called Regime Change. Oh yeah, it's a game changer. Michael, thank you for taking time, look forward to the class, and hope to have you on again soon, and everybody should read everything he has published. You will learn something. Michael, thanks so much.

Thanks a lot. Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here. Do you believe in our founder's vision for America? That our republic will only survive if we are an educated and informed people who know our rights and our duties? Since 1844, Hillsdale College has sought to educate all who wish to learn about these timeless principles of self-government. For more than 50 years, the college has worked to spread that mission by sending In Primus, their Digest of Liberty to millions of Americans, including me. In Primus features some of the best speeches given at Hillsdale events, and now an audio version of the Popular Speech Digest is available in a new podcast of the same name. And like print publications in Primus, the podcast is always free.

You can hear the best arguments from speakers such as Christopher Rufo, Molly Hemingway, Mark Stein, Hillsdale College President Larry P. Arnn, among others, read by Hillsdale students. I started listening to In Primus and now my friends at Hillsdale, and I want you to listen for free as well. You can subscribe today to listen in at Primus at charlieforhillsdale.com. That is charlieforhillsdale.com. They do an excellent job. It is the best college in America.

Hillsdale College, charlieforhillsdale.com. Okay, joining us now is Mike Cernovich. Mike, I think, is one of the smartest people in the movement. I love how honest he is on social media, and he sees things as they are, and he doesn't really care if he gets hate for it because he's honest.

Mike, thank you for taking time. Mike, you've been very outspoken regarding the DeSantis campaign. I consider it a tragedy the last couple months. I'm a massive supporter of what Governor DeSantis has done in Florida. I don't like to see people underperform their potential, which is certainly what has happened with the DeSantis campaign.

Mike Cernovich, what's going on on Team DeSantis? He's maybe the first candidate that became less popular when he ran for office. There was a lot of enthusiasm from people, myself included, with the DeSantis campaign because we wanted a competitive primary. We wanted a primary, not a coronation. When I said that, that made a lot of people maybe who are more casual in the politics angry, you're a traitor, you must hate Trump, not realizing that this isn't the era of coronations.

It's not the era of kings. This is a primary. We wanted to be competitive, and now there's no competitive primary. I've never seen a campaign alter like this in my lifetime. Some people are comparing it to Scott Walker, who is a great governor.

He ran for office realizing it was a national scene, completely different vibe. If you're me, you're other people, you're pretty frustrated because you see a lot of denial from DeSantis supporters. You see a lot of frustration from them, a lot of rage. Even people that I consider friends for many, many years, nitpicking little subtweets about me. I can tell where they're being insulting, being condescending. I think that fundamentally, rather than just, wow, wow, wow, wow, here's what they did wrong. Fundamentally, the failure of the DeSantis campaign was that they didn't understand, and they still don't understand, the MAG energy that existed in 2015 and in 2016.

They didn't understand that it was fun. One of the reasons Trump won an unprecedented election, the close election, an election that could have gone either way and that the regime didn't expect him to win or else they would have done more shenanigans like they did in 2020, was if you just looked, who do you want to be with? So much of politics is tribalism, and so many people who are conservative, they think they're real intellectuals. That's the snobbery that I flagged in a number of my tweets that I've noticed. Yes, that's so true. As part of the conservative movement is these guys on Twitter, they're so haughty.

I've read the great books, and there's nothing I'm reading from your tweet that is so freaking amazing that I think, where is this guy's book? This person is a brilliant articulator, wonderful insight. They're snobs. What happened is all the snobs that existed in 2015, 2016, they hitched their wagon to the DeSantis.

These people, they're insufferable. They yelled at me, even though if anybody had followed along, super pro DeSantis, everything I say is good about DeSantis. I'm one of the only people who could be pro DeSantis but also still exist in MAGA World, just because, as you said at the intro, people know that I'm kind of a loose cannon, wild card, call it whatever you want, but there's just some people who are able to exist back and forth.

Well, you tell the truth, and that's what I love about you, Mike, is that there's no agenda except the truth. I think you're diagnosing it perfectly. First of all, there's these surprisingly hostile snobs that are anything but DeSantis, and they're not even allowing you to have any sort of criticism towards the campaign. It's kind of like everything is fine and everything is great and everything is fine.

I'm like, guys, no, it's actually not. Two things can simultaneously be true, by the way, which is I think that I'm behind President Donald Trump, but I also really like Governor DeSantis, and I think he's done a wonderful job, and it's as almost as if those cannot simultaneously exist in the same universe. We had a dialogue with Dave Rubin the other day, and then privately I've talked to some people, and somebody said, well, Charlie, what do you think DeSantis could be doing differently? Like, what could he change? So Mike, one or two things, what could he change?

I have a whole list of things that he could change, but what could he change? Right now, the perception, and again, the DeSantis people are going to be all down my throat when he posts this clip, right? I can't wait to watch them prove me right in real time. The perceptions, these are snobs, bickering people who think that they're better than everyone else, they think they're better than MAGA people, they think they're better than Trump, and they have that DC, I call them elite.

Like, who are these people, right? Like, why do you think you're elite? When I see these people and their haughty tone and the nastiness that they spread towards other people, to me, I think, like, why do you think you're so special?

What is it about your achievement in life that makes you think that you can talk down to people in the way that they do? But I don't know how you fix that. That's a cultural problem. There's a command and control problem. I totally agree with you.

I think that is exactly right. Please continue. Right, so you have a command and control problem and a culture problem. So if I'm handling messaging with the DeSantis people, I would say, why are you bickering with people who are 80% pro-DeSantis because they criticize DeSantis? Don Jr. follows Mike Cernovich, retweets Mike Cernovich.

Read what Mike Cernovich has said about President Trump, right? You've got to be an adult. You know, if you're in the campaign for DeSantis, you've got to be an adult. Guess what you're running for, a big boy office.

You want to have the power over the nuclear glitch. You're going to have people who come at you aggressively. And if you're going to cry about that and throw a tantrum about that, this can be a problem. Now, of course, the flip side is I've had – they're very robotic, so I don't know if it's a botnet or they're just on group text, but I've noticed a bunch of them go, oh, you're just Cernovich. You can't take mean tweets. And I see that same coordinated inauthentic messaging. So everything about the campaign is inauthentic messaging. I don't know if you guys have that memo or you read that memo yesterday that I tweeted that was full of just corporate gobbledygook, the kind of memo that you get when you work at a big corporation. There's no enthusiasm, right?

So if you back to Santa – and I could have done this. I was enthusiastic and then I just saw the campaign, didn't really get it. You have to really believe in what you're selling. You're selling a candidate.

To sell a candidate, you have to create alliances, maybe with people you don't agree with on everything, but you go, you know what, that guy, he's not an enemy. You've got to realize there's a difference between an enemy and someone who's not a friend. And then there's people like me who are friendly. So the De Santis people, they treat friendlies like enemies. And then one of them said, well, we're glad we got rid of you. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, but I was never with you.

I was just somebody friendly to De Santis. So they need a whole image makeover, a whole messaging makeover. They need a complete reform of the command and control happening where it takes three days for a tweet to go out.

So let's take a concrete example. The sound of freedom, trending on Twitter, biggest story ever, $100 million blockbuster film. I said, why doesn't De Santis and his campaign just tweet a copy of a movie ticket stub, date night, important issue.

That would have been saturation coverage all weekend. Oh, De Santis, easy, easy. I could come up with you too.

By the way, but Mike, when I come up with these ideas, I text some of the De Santis people. They're like, oh, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm like, guys, look, I didn't go to college.

I know you don't think highly of me. I kind of do know what I'm talking about. Like turning points, not nothing. Right. I mean, we kind of have this thing. We had 7000 people in a room, sort of important.

Right. A lot. There were a lot of donors, financiers, media. And not only did they not come, but the snobbery from his allies were like, oh, it's just a MAGA event. I'm like, well, you kind of need to win these people over too, guys.

Like what, what population do you think you're going to win the nomination over? Right. We offered the red carpet. How was your take, Mike, when Ron De Santis decided to snub turning point action? Right. So what you mentioned is people didn't learn anything from 2015, 2016. I watched you go from basically a one man band and then the GOP convention happened in 2016. And you realized President Trump was it.

You were helping John Jr. The media is writing hit pieces. Oh, there's only 100 people and turning point is actually not a big organization. But they don't know any of this.

Right. So that's what I mean by their snobbery is so unearned. Because, like, if you've never built a brand, if you don't have any notoriety, if you don't have any impact, then why do you think you know more than people who do? You can say, for example, oh, I'm better than Dernovich. He's a degenerate lowlife or whatever.

He's stupid or he's ugly. Oh, and I'm better than Charlie Kirk. You can think you're better than people. That's just being a snob. But objectively, you would say, well, but they maybe have a finger on the pulse.

So Charlie's built a massive organization from scratch. Maybe we ought to say, what's some advice for you? And, yeah, exactly what you said. I've sent so many voice memos to De Santis people saying, here's what you need to do. They won't do it. Take, for example, Sound of Freedom, just tweet your date night. You're getting coverage all weekend, the media attacking you.

That's what you need. So if you're De Santis, you need adversarial media coverage where they claim you're a bad person because you want to stop child sex trafficking. Instead, that same weekend, he made a line about Trump that I think was taken a little bit out of context by MAGA. But it was something like he could have maybe done more on January 6, but he shouldn't be indicted.

And he got into the weeds on that. So that became the story where if you're just a casual Trump supporter, you go, wow, why is De Santis attacking Trump? Where instead that whole weekend could have been nonstop coverage of how De Santis is a horrible person because he wants to stop child sex trafficking. So I think it's not going to the movies. That's such a smart idea.

I mean, and we could list 10, 12 different ideas. Mike Cernovich, who, by the way, understood Trump well before anybody else in 2015, 2016, was a big part of the populist nationalist movement. And just everyone understands the credibility of Mike.

Mike has been very harsh towards Trump in the last 18 months and has really been leveling some fair criticism. But he also looks how things are, not how he wishes that they should be. And he's like, look, this De Santis thing, this dog is not hunting. GoodRanchers.com is an amazing resource. I love the meat from Good Ranchers. Look, they now have new prime pork at Good Ranchers.

Good Ranchers is the number one place to get America's best beef and chicken. And now they have the best pork as well. What is prime pork? Well, it's like prime steak.

It's more marbling, better coloring, and it's more tender by 25% over other pork. This is 100% American-raised pork that you can trust and seriously enjoy. Use my code to get $30 off your box of America's best beef, chicken, and pork today.

Go to GoodRanchers.com and you could use our discount code charlie to get $30 off any box. Look, Good Ranchers has done it again. I thought they'd stop at the best beef in the country, but then they get sensational all-American chicken too.

Surely they couldn't redefine another protein source from American farms, but they did. You might be thinking, I've never heard of prime pork before, and that's the problem. Prime pork has amazing marbling just like prime steak, so check it out at GoodRanchers.com. Head to GoodRanchers.com and change the way you buy pork, beef, and chicken. Use promo code Kirk for $30 off your box at GoodRanchers.com. Now's the time to get American meat conveniently delivered to your door. Use promo code Kirk for $30 off delivery of America's best beef, chicken, and prime pork today. Head to GoodRanchers.com and change the way you buy pork, beef, and chicken. They're a great company. Check it out. I use them, and I love them. In fact, we're having Good Ranchers meat this weekend.

GoodRanchers.com, promo code Kirk. So, Mike, I'm going to read a text from somebody in the DeSantis orbit in a second, but I want to go through your tweets here. You say, not even I could save the DeSantis campaign. My earlier advice, first mocked then accepted a day late, would have given them momentum. It's hard to help people who don't have joy. MAGA influencers can be... let's just blur that out.

But no one can deny they look to be having a good time. You've also said, DeSantis can now drop out of the race with dignity. Say we must really get behind Trump given all the unlawful indictments. Trump says he'll make DeSantis Attorney General.

There's a way to save face here and not look at your bend in the knee. This is the controversial tweet, Mike, why should Trump bring DeSantis now into the orbit? Because we're winning or losing elections on 50,000 votes in three states, right? Trump won 2016 by 83,000 votes in four states. He lost, if you consider it a real loss in 2020, by 50,000 or 40,000 votes in three states. You can't really alienate anyone is the problem here. And one of the people I read and some people I've talked to have actually thought that the DeSantis campaign is designed to torpedo support for Trump in 2024.

Then Trump can lose and then the regime comes back and says, hey, we told you this MAGA thing was a bad idea. I think that's right. Yep.

It's a long, slow motion, expensive, I told you so campaign. Right. Could be.

I don't know that it is. I tend to think that psychologically DeSantis is an ambitious man. He's a calculated man. I think he did want the presidency. I know that I heard before this was a big story that Casey DeSantis really wanted him to run.

I think some of the stuff people are saying about her is unfair. So I don't want to complain to that too much other than that she really wanted him to run. I know that he's an ambitious man, Cassius, right?

We go back to high school English. You know, you have to go to college to reach your Shakespeare. So he's that kind of character. I don't buy into that he's necessarily trying to torpedo, but I understand why a lot of people think that because if you look at how they're acting, you would say this is not somebody who wants to win. Right? You would say, Vivek, again, people have their things.

I'm not here to get into all that. But Vivek is playing to win. Now, whether he really thinks he can win the presidency or whether he's trying to win himself a profile, these are different conversations to be had, but he's playing to win. Right? He's on the field like, all right, we're fired up, ready to go.

Right? I was thinking about that actually yesterday when I met somebody who was part of the Clinton campaign in 2016. And she said, when we door knocked for Obama, every morning it was fired up, ready to go, fired up, ready to go. Everybody was hyped. That's how they managed the campaign.

And with Clinton, there was none of that. So if you're on the DeSantis campaign, do you imagine that it's a, because remember, politics is a team sport. Do you imagine that it's, all right, what are we going to do today? Who's here?

Boom. What are we going to do? What are we going to do? What's going on?

Show your wins. Do you think that's really happening? I mean, that's not a rhetorical question, Charlie. Do you imagine that there's an atmosphere of enthusiasm and hype amongst the DeSantis campaign? No, I don't. In fact, I'll read this text message because this is what the DeSantis people refuse to get through their head, that at times we're actually giving honest advice. I know that they feel like, oh no.

It's like, no, actually we want people to get to their highest level of excellence. So I was texting somebody in the orbit, right? And I said this. I said, look, I'm not one to give advice, but this campaign is the worst I've ever seen. Totally misreading the room. It's tragic to watch. He's a great governor.

And they said, okay, well, what's the, by the way, this is a name that everyone would recognize in the audience. They said, what's the strategic advice here? I said, fire everyone and stop acting like a chamber candidate. He's ruining his legacy and any future chances win for the presidency. It's sad. Final thoughts, Mike Cernovich? No, you're exactly right. He needs to go into the lion's den, not have your campaign people saying Jake Tapper's honest.

I mean, come on, bro. The more I think about it, just the more angry I get. Imagine calling Jake Tapper an honest person.

That actually came from the DeSantis campaign. Fire the comms team. That's for sure.

Get on message. Kick all the dorks out. They lost in 2015. They lost in 2016.

They're not going to bring anything new in 2024. Reshape your messaging and get people who are excited to be in the room. Yeah. And, and be a happy warrior. I mean, Vivek is, is doing very well because he's reading the room and he says, huh, 60% of Republican voters love Trump. Another 10% have some soft spot for him. That's 70% of the party.

Probably not a good idea to just declare war. So I'm going to just say really MAGA based things and win people over as this kind of like happy warrior and charm a guy that has zero experience. I love Vivek, but DeSantis is a track record. All DeSantis had to do was run as this cheerful, happy warrior and just kind of laugh like, oh, it's Trump being Trump.

But honestly, I could do what Trump wants to do better. If he had that tone, this would be a race. Instead, the smugness, the arrogance, the hubris, the pride, the hostility towards people like us has been unlike anything I've ever seen, but they know better, Mike.

And who are we to speak against them? Mike Sertovich, excellent commentary. Thanks so much. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us your thoughts. There's always freedom at charliekirk.com. Also email me freedom at charliekirk.com. Your opinions on the DeSantis campaign to win a signed copy potentially of my book, The College Scam.

Thanks so much for listening and God bless. Unfiltered. Unapologetic. Truth. Find what you're searching for at snc.tv and on Local Now Channel 525.