New Days, Old Demons with Mark Driscoll

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That's noblegoldinvestments.com, the only gold company I trust. Hey everybody, an extraordinary conversation with Mark Driscoll, author of New Days, Old Demons. You're going to love this conversation. It's really, really great. I learned so much. Get your pen and paper out and take notes, and text this episode to your friends.

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Yeah, thank you. Trinity Church and also the author of a very important book, New Days, Old Demons, one of the best, most important Bible teachers in the country and the world, actually. Mark Driscoll. Mark, welcome to the program, man. Honored to be with you, my friend.

It's good to see you. Yeah, you have a huge following here in Phoenix and across the country, and I think you have such an amazing gift from the Lord to teach the Word and to honestly tell the truth in this era of lies. Well, I've been teaching the Bible for about 30 years, pretty much verse by verse, week by week, and what I always say is the Bible is not a book that just tells us what happened but what always happens, and we tend to think of it as an old book. It's not. It's an eternal book.

And so it's always timely because it's over all the times. And so for me, if you can't connect what's going on in the culture with what's said in the Scripture, people have no idea how to interpret everything that they're going through. So why'd you write the book? I was preaching through 1 and 2 Kings, book in the Old Testament, and realized that the same things that they were dealing with in the ancient nation of Israel about 3,000 years ago are exactly the same cultural, political issues we're dealing with today. So it got me asking, if you see the same issues happening in different cultures and different nations and different governments with different people, what's the causation? And it's spiritual. That people come and go, but the demons remain the same. And what we're dealing with is truly demonic.

The progressive agenda, wokeism, kind of soft beta male woke Christianity is all demonic, and it's ancient paganism, and it's the same thing that happened in the days of Elijah. So let's go through some of the characters. Ahab, Jezebel, Elijah, for the uninitiated audience, who are these people and why does it matter? So 3,000 years ago in the nation of Israel, they were supposed to be like us, a nation founded under God, and they weren't. So Ahab was the king, he was passive, permissive, tolerant, progressive, he was weak, and he was not a man who liked to make decisions or have conflict, and he was fairly incoherent and incompetent. Sounds like most of the church. Well, we couldn't imagine a senior political leader like that. His wife, Jezebel the queen, she was controlling, domineering, overbearing, very sexual, and slept her way to the top.

Like Kamala Harris. Well, you said it and I didn't disagree with it. And so what you have, anytime you have a passive leader and a controlling, domineering, overbearing partner, the point is this, if you tolerate, they will dominate.

That's so good. And so the entire pride movement, the entire trans agenda, the entire LGBTQIA, alphabet soup people agenda is tolerate. And Jesus talks about a thousand years later about Jezebel. Jezebel was not just an ancient queen, but a spirit. And he says, you tolerate that woman, Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. She's a highly religious, highly seductive, highly spiritual leader.

She teaches false doctrine and she leads people into sexual immorality. And so from Jezebel to the book of Revelation, the Lord Jesus, there's a thousand year gap because the demons are the same, even though the people change. And so what we're dealing with today in the church is Ahab and Jezebel. In Christianity, most denominations are led by Ahab. The government is led by Ahab.

The southern border is open because of Ahabianism. It's a passivity and a tolerance. And anytime you tolerate, they dominate. If you tolerate like Ahab, then the Jezebel spirit comes in, dominates, takes over, controls, seduces, sexualizes. And in their days, that included child sacrifice, which was the precursor to government sponsored abortion to the Canaanite god Molech.

It also included genital mutilation, transgenderism. And in the days of Ahab and Jezebel, they were dealing with drag queens overtaking. And so what you had then, the Jezebel spirit takes over the government, closes the churches, as we saw globally during COVID, took over the Christian schools, took over the economy, canceled the platform and killed anyone who disagreed. And this is an entire demonic agenda to replace God with government. That's what's going on in the days of Elijah. I mean, that's remarkably deep. I haven't really heard a lot of people connect those dots. Is it just because they don't read the Old Testament, or is it just kind of not parallel to their theology? I mean, that's so clear what you just articulated. I think oftentimes people just don't read the Bible. They just don't. And they know, you know, every pothead knows one verse, God made every seed bearing plant, and the liberals know one verse, thou shalt not judge.

That's about as far as they get. Now, if you dig deep into the Bible, you'll find, as Jordan Peterson has recently, it's the most amazing, fascinating, incredible book that's ever written. The profundity is beyond. Well, because when you read the Bible, it's the only book that as you study it, it studies you. And when you meet with it, the author meets with you to help you learn it.

And so it's a supernatural experience when you actually take the Word of God seriously. And so, diving into this, so let's go to the events that led to 1 Kings, right? So, nation of Israel delivered out of Egypt, right? God delivers, they get into Canaan, you know, end of in the wilderness, Book of Numbers, Moses gives his goodbye address in Deuteronomy, you know, Joshua generation enters into Canaan, right?

First new generation, all the old one died off. Then, they enter into a place with no standing army, really no police force, where the law was the center, and then at some point, I think, either in Samuel or whatever, they say, God give us a king, right? We want a king like the other nations. So, I'm doing the best I can paraphrasing here. So then what happens is, you get King Solomon, and King Solomon is told by God, here's what you do and you don't do. Well, the dude does everything he's not supposed to do. He gets like, you know, 95 wives and concubines and like 1000.

I mean, he's, I mean, Hugh Hefner is like, that dude's next level, you know, and so he starts worshipping foreign gods, he starts opening pagan temples and sacrifices, including child sacrifice. And so, and so ultimately, what that leads to is five generations of this evil demonic family. And you see this slow decline in government, every generation is a little worse. And this is the progressive lie. This is the powerful delusional myth of the progressive line that is that we're good and getting better.

I love I totally agree with you. And the story of the Bible is we're bad and getting worse. And so what you see in first King 16 is five generations, one to the next to this corrupt political family.

And the truth is America has been largely dominated by a handful of corrupt political families for generations. And then what happens is it gets to the point where it is so dark, it is so despicable that literally the government is against God because the conflict is always between God and government. God says, I have all authority and government says, we want to remove God and replace God. And we want to be the highest authority. We don't need Jesus to come back. We can set up heaven on earth through policy and taxation. And then the government tries to in the days of Elijah as our day, take over education, take over entertainment, take over the economy, take over the church.

And so then what happens, it gets so dark, so damnable, so despicable, and God's people are so squeezed and they're so hopeless that God sends Elijah. And the guy's a mountain man. I mean, if you watch the television show alone, he would be the annual winner. He's just a lifestyle guy. And he wears a camel's. He wears what he kills.

He eats what he kills. He doesn't... John the Baptist was similar. There was some... He became the spirit and power of Elijah. Yeah, there was some harmony there, right? They thought he was Elijah.

Yeah, that's right. And so this is the guy like, if Rip got saved from Yellowstone and won alone, his name would be Elijah. He's that dude. And so what I love about it is usually when you think of Christianity, you think of like that soft, beta male, gender confused, skinny jeans, you know, feathered hair with frosted tips, you know, bad voice... Like Judas Smith, Levi Lusko, people like that. Well, you know, I don't name names.

I do. But what happens then is you get a guy like Elijah and you're like, this dude doesn't bring a weapon. He is a weapon. He's a man's man. He's a dude of dudes.

I love that. He's an outlaw. He's a cowboy. He doesn't fit the mold and he doesn't come out of the establishment.

He comes out of the woods. And that's what we really need right now. Everybody who's coming out of Bible college, seminary, everybody who's coming out of some sort of established political party is just a neutered, compromised beta male. And we need more Elijahs.

It's a bunch of cowardly eunuchs calling themselves pastors. I'm a donor to preborn and you should be too. Call 833-850-BABY.

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If you want to save one baby or five or hundreds, the opportunity is just right there. Go to preborn.org slash kirk. Mark, we are talking about pastors who have become like charismatic eunuchs. Well, so Ahab is the king in Israel and he's passive tolerant. He doesn't do conflict.

He doesn't make hard decisions. And as a result, if you are like Ahab, then you're going to get Jezebel. Jezebel comes in, is domineering, overbearing, highly controlling and very, very sexual. And what you see wherever the Jezebel spirit is at work. So the two primary deities in their day, the false gods were Baal, the male god, and Astra, the female god.

And so what you see is these two demonic spirits working through these two political leaders. And so at the end of the day, the way it works itself out is the Jezebel spirit castrates males, literally castrates males, emotionally, spiritually, but also physically. So Jezebel, all of the ancient artwork about her, highly pornographic, highly seductive. You're talking about gender bending and all kinds of sickness. When they go to arrest her, a guy named Jehu in 2 Kings 9, it says that she painted her face so that she could try and seduce him.

Her way is to sleep her way out of all of her problems. And that she was, quote, surrounded by her eunuchs. So to literally, the job description to go work for Jezebel is you've got to cut your junk off.

That's part of the rule. Same thing happened with Daniel. He was a eunuch in the kingdom of Babylon under the spirit of Babel. And so literally to worship the Jezebelian spirit and to serve it, you have to be a man who's willing to undergo genital mutilation. So I started looking at this and I found in the, there's the University of Chicago's got an academic journal called The History of Religions. And they trace that everywhere there has been a dominant feminine female deity and spirituality in the history of the world, all religions, all cultures, all times and places, the men who are serving her have to castrate themselves and become transgender.

And then they started looking at it and they asked this interesting question. They're asking, if we're seeing all the men castrate themselves in every generation in different religions and places, but these people never intersected, how did it leap from one place to another? New days, old demons.

People come and go, but the spirits remain the same. So then I jumped into it and Augustine, the church father said that in his day, the greatest threat to the spread of Christianity in the early Roman empire were the Cybelean priests who were male drag queens, who castrated themselves, painted their faces, wore women's clothes, went out in public. He said their necks were so limp they could barely keep their head up. And they did story hours for children in the fourth century. So everything you're seeing on the progressive left is nothing but regressive paganism. And everything you're seeing with the gender spectrum is literally demonic because God made us male and female. And then Satan wants us to be remade as something other than male and female. And so I'm just telling you what they dealt with in the days of Daniel, the castration of healthy young men, the castration of men in the days of Jezebel continued through the early church in the days of Augustine continues to our day. This is demonic and it is satanic. And what you get in denominations, not to interrupt you, you get these Ahab passive, weak, woke, cowardly pastors that will tell you what they're for, but not what they're against, and they're not up for the fight.

And it is the masculine role to say no. That's Elijah. Elijah's the man of mans, dude of dudes. He hunts fishes and loves every minute of it and lives in the woods.

A little more Esau than Jacob. He shows up and he just rebukes them. He calls down fire from heaven. And then he slaughters over 400 of their false prophets. Imagine a pastor today that had the stones to pick a fight and then slaughter 400 denominational leaders, slit their throats as a public event. That's Elijah.

Stay peaceful. The book is New Days, Old Demons. What motivates your typical woke pastor? I'm talking about the skinny jean type, the people that never actually teach the word.

You know, we mentioned some of the names. What drives them into the ministry? Some are cowards and they took the job because it's indoor, doesn't require any heavy lifting. Some guys were over-mothered and under-fathered and so they feel at home in the church like they did in their mom's house. Some guys, they have church hurt and they're bitter and they're deconstructionist and they need to just get over their hurt and grow up and be a grown man.

For some of them, they're just poorly read and they've spent more money on their wardrobe than they have their library. As we say often, too many churches have become Ted Talks with a rock concert, skinny jeans and look at my new shoes. That's what passes American Christianity. But check out the coffee bar, everybody, but I'm not going to tell you about sin.

Check out Trinity Church, though. You will hear about sin, but most importantly, redemption. Right now, our world is changing in many uncomfortable ways. It's not just natural disasters, political and economic disasters. The bottom line is you must be prepared for anything to happen at a moment's notice. You won't get a warning.

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Save 20% today, 25% today before the sale is over. Go to PrepareWithKirk.com. That is PrepareWithKirk.com. I just have to read this description. The book is New Days, Old Demons by Mark Driscoll, who's a legend. Study of Elijah, sex, gender, ancient paganism masquerading as progressive Christianity, victims of nothing, woke politics, the transgender Jezebel spirit that castrates men, and the passive Ahab soft woke Christian beta male spirit leading the conga line. What is this, the sheol?

The sheol, yeah, that's the grave. Thank you. Carrying a rainbow flag. Again, Mark, you gotta get to the point, okay?

Enough of this vanilla watering down stuff. Yeah, I mean, to me, if you're gonna go... Giving you a hard time.

Go big, and if you're gonna get canceled, you know, make it fun. Yeah, so let me ask you some questions I have, I know our audience has, just about some confusion. And I've had an opportunity to speak with over 120 churches across the country, and there's a lot of agreement on the demonic and Satan, but I hear different things, and when I ask questions, I'm actually told different things. What does the Bible tell us about Satan? Is it true that Satan and or Lucifer rebelled as an angel of God?

Is that an inference, is that a folktale, is that tradition? Let's just start with that. Who is Satan and how much power does he have? Yeah, and if you go to realfaith.com, all my Bible teaching is free.

Get what you pay for, lower your expectations, but it's all there. And there's a book I wrote with my wife in a series I did called Win Your War, and it's all on Satan and the demonic, and it's all free. But anyways, there's one God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and then there are two realms that form one reality. There is the unseen realm of the Spirit, and then there's the physical realm that we inhabit.

And what's interesting is the entire progressive woke world downplays or denies the spiritual altogether. So like the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Health Disorders on how to help people who are struggling, mentions the soul zero times. There is no acknowledgement that you have a soul.

We are one person in two parts. We have a physical body and a spiritual soul. Our physical body was built for this world, our soul was built to connect with God in that world.

And so in that way, what we experience as human beings correlates with the reality that God made. So there's one God, and as there are beings that inhabit our physical world, men and women, there are beings that inhabit the spiritual world, angels and demons. All started as angels. Angels are messengers and ministers and servants of God.

That's the Greek word for angel is messenger, and in Hebrew it literally means messenger. Now it says in Revelation that there was a war in heaven, Revelation 12. That Satan decided that he would try and overthrow, usurp God. And so everything that God creates, Satan counterfeits. Everything that God builds, Satan breaks.

Everything that God has, Satan tries to steal. And so what happens is there's a war in heaven that says that Michael and the angels won the war, Revelation 12. Satan and the demons were cast down.

Jesus said it was a third of the heavenly host. So a third of the angels now became dark. They're still divine beings.

They're still supernatural. They're under God. They're not equal to God.

They don't share his attributes. They immediately take the war to Adam and Eve, and they're trying to rule on earth because they lost their war in heaven. They won their war on earth, and then they took over humanity. So now the Bible says that Satan is the god of this world. That's Paul. Yeah, that he rules and reigns.

Prince of this world. And so Satan can't be everywhere and doesn't know all things. He doesn't share God's attributes, but it's like a military with a commander in chief, and the Bible uses military language like archangels, which is a military term, to refer to the demonic realm like soldiers. And then Paul says our war is not against flesh and blood, but powers, principalities, and spirits. So what we're up against is not just a physical war, but there's a war behind that war that's a spiritual war.

That's super helpful. Best, honestly, summary that I've heard. So is it fair to say God created everything, Genesis 1-1, including all the angels? Yep. Is it too far of a reach to say God then gave the angels agency? They've always had agency because love requires agency. If you take away free will, you take away love because love is a choice. And so my wife, Grace, and I have been faithfully married 30 years.

And it's not because every day she puts a gun to my head, but because I choose to love her. And so you can get obedience without love and agency, but you can't get love without agency. And so God allows choice and freedom and will so that there can be love and genuine relationships. And so what we're seeing right now in our world, it's spiritual.

There are physical realities, but they're caused by spiritual entities. I mean, how else do you explain like human trafficking and drug cartels and open border and mutilation of children in the name of care and state seizing custody of children with mental health disorders like gender dysphoria? How do you have, you know, our world exists where everything that is dark is called light and everything that is wrong is called right. It's demonic. There is an agenda that's at work to destroy everyone and everything that God made.

And so what we're living through, and this gets to your book, New Days, Old Demons, is that there are certain demons or spirits, as you say, the spirit of Jezebel, or it could be re-manifested in the spirit of Aphrodite, right? That have temporary dominion over this world, whether it be the Aztecs or the Mayans. Every culture. That they re-manifest themselves in predictable ways. Yeah, the patterns are the same. And so, I mean, there was recently a study that came out, I think it was this week, that seven in ten Americans, I think it was according to Gallup, believe in angels.

Seven in ten Americans. And so there is a curiosity about the supernatural and the spiritual. Now, just like you wouldn't trust every human being, you can't trust every divine being.

And so discernment is getting to know, like, is that a good person or a bad person? Is that a good spirit or a bad spirit? So the Bible says don't believe every spirit, but test the spirits. So what we have is people who believe in angels, but they don't understand demons. And so what they could be doing is living a spiritual life. We don't want to live a spiritual life, we want to live a spirit-filled life. We don't want unholy spirits, we only want the Holy Spirit. And I think there's a lot of confusion. I think that's what's driving general vague spirituality, deconstructionism, progressive Christianity, the woke joke folk, the BLM Christians, and the rainbow flag pastors who've come out of Satan's closet.

I think it's all the same demonic forces. You've been doing this for 20, 30 years? 30 years in the pulpit. And it's worse than ever in the Christian space, correct?

Well, what has happened is it used to be... So you know this, the transition. What is being taught at the university today will be normative in the culture tomorrow. That's our hypothesis of my life's work.

So upstream is the university and downstream is the culture. So I got saved in college. I did college ministry forever. I taught the Bible basically near the chop zone in the People's Republic of Seattle for about 20 years, which every day was like a double date with Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. I mean, it was always very interesting. 10,000 people got baptized. I got canceled. Our producer was one of them, Andrew. Really?

Okay. And so then what happens is if you've been in a university in a bright blue dot city, you are looking at the future. That's so true. Because those people will go upstream and make culture. They'll become your politicians, your media personnel, your lawyers, your judges. And so for me, I have lived in this reality for decades, and now it's just found its way to places like Alabama. So I come from the future. And prophet literally means to see forward, right? To be able to see what is coming next. And when you spend time at universities, you could see what is coming. But in Christianity in particular, the seminaries, the capture of institutions that were otherwise biblical or theological becoming woke, did you see that coming?

Absolutely. Because the trend is, it's like gravity. Gravity never pushes things up, it only pulls things down. If you believe that we live in a sinful, fallen, and cursed world, the force of gravity is down. So if you want things to regress, you don't need to do anything. If you want progress, you got to work. So every institution veers left.

Some go fast, some go slow, but all go left and all go down. And that's an interesting segue to something I want to talk about, which is, you say, as it was in either the days of Daniel or Elijah, sometimes we'll have people on the program that say, we're living through the days of Noah. And that's an interesting comparison because Christ our Lord say, I'm paraphrasing, the days of Noah will show us when the end times are here. I take no strong opinions on eschatology. I do believe in what the Bible says, Jesus will return. There will be an end.

He will sit on his throne. But Mark, can you just comment, do you think we are in the end times or do you think it's a little bit tricky to say declaratively, we are in the end times? So Jesus uses this language of birth pains. And birth pains, so right now, literally, my daughter-in-law is having birth pains. My first grandchild or grandson will be born any minute.

So if I run out of here, that's where I'm going. And so what she's experiencing right now is birth pains, contractions, dilation, pain. And what Jesus says is that just like people are born again, history will be born again. And that it's like birth pains. The closer you get to the birth, the more intensity, the more frequently, and the contraction... The tremors increase.

Exactly. And then out of the greatest pain comes new life. And so if you believe in Jesus' analogy, the closer we get to the end, the same things will be happening with more intensity and frequency. More apostasy, more lies, more murder, more sexual confusion, more calling darkness, light, and light darkness, and all of that. And so every generation is thinking, we must be at the end because this is the worst it's ever been. Well, it's the worst it's ever been for us. And it may get worse, and it may not.

Yes. But I think if we look at it right now, you'd have to say that at some point, human life on the earth is going to either come to an end or it's going to be delivered from itself. And this is the story of every major Hollywood movie. The earth is in peril. Some half-man, half-woman, half-god deity comes from another realm with supernatural powers and rescues us.

Everything that's DC and Marvel is ripping off the storyline of the Bible and Jesus Christ. Yeah, and because it's true, and it's a story that resonates with us, as you say, at an invisible level. And so, but do you think that it, what is the downside, let me put it this way, of overemphasizing that we're in the eschaton? Well, you can become fearful. And God says in the Bible, he has not given us a spirit of fear.

Put that up a sound mind. So we live by faith, not by fear. And a spirit of fear is literally a demonic spirit of fear. And once you take upon fear, it drives all of your decision-making. And what happened a few years ago with COVID, a spirit of fear ran planet earth for quite a while.

Yes. Closed schools, closed churches, caused perfectly sane people to do perfectly insane things. Caused people who are next to zero risk to shut down their life, to sit at home, a whole generation of men to exit the workforce, not get married. You've got dramatic, traumatic mental health. Even the CDC says that young women are suicidal and cratering. Welcome to a spirit of fear. And so what I don't want to do is look into the future with fear. I want to look into the future with faith. I want to say if it's getting worse, I shouldn't be scared. I should be glad because it means that Jesus is getting near. Yeah, and that's, you know, some people say, because some objections to my life's work, which is to, you know, try to save Western civilization, as futile as that effort might be, is that Charlie's not falling apart, it's falling into place, you're wasting your time, Jesus is coming soon. I'd like to explore that with you because I think it goes down to what is actually motivating our action, right?

And I think that's probably the most operative question. Mark Driscoll is here, New Days, Old Demons. What's the website?

Realfaith.com, all the Bible teachers. Free of charge, right? Yep. And you said you get what you pay for?

You get what you pay for. Well, no, you have an effort, though. If you buy a book, you send one to Levi Lusko, right? If you buy the book, and I do know Levi, so Levi, if you're listening, God bless your life. I'll be honest, he's never explained why he marched in a BLM parade, so I'd love to hear. Oh, he did?

Well, I'll call him after this and get you an answer. And BLM is just a Ponzi scheme and a fraud. I agree. In the name of social justice, all it did was provide a lot of money for a corrupt handful of lesbians.

So if that's justice, I'm out. But anyways, if you buy two copies, if you buy a copy of the book, we'll send a free copy to a woke pastor. And if you want to, let us know, you know, what rainbow flag church you want it sent to, and we'll send it to him.

Because I've been triggering progressives since 96. All right, Mark, I'm going to buy a couple dozen, and you send it to Saddleback for me, okay? That's our deal. Hey, Charlie Kirk here. If you guys love this program and you want to support this program, if we have impacted or blessed your life in any way, I want to tell you about a new thing that we are starting it up. First of all, if you have supported us at CharlieKirk.com slash support, nothing to worry about, you guys are going to be moved on over. If you want to support us even more and say, hey, I want exclusive content, I want to talk to Charlie directly, we are standing up this amazing infrastructure teams working so hard at members.CharlieKirk.com. Not only is it a way to support us directly outside of all of the other channels, but get this live Q and A's. I mean the team articles exclusively written by me that you won't find anywhere else.

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Head to members.CharlieKirk.com today. Yes, there's going to be a lot of goodies, a lot of engagement, a lot of fun stuff, but even more than that, if you feel moved and compelled that our show is impacting you and impacting the world, it would mean a lot if you became a member at members.CharlieKirk.com. The potential downside of overemphasize that we're in the Eschaton or the end times, right?

Some people say it's a waste of time. Let's just, for example, the house is on fire. Let's get the kids out. Let's run to the hills. Jesus is coming next Thursday. Certainty that we are in the kind of final contractions, right? When in reality, to just like play the analogy, the dilation only might be one, not ten. Yeah. We actually might be a lot more time left on the board than we realize, but the time and the hour is unknown, isn't it? Yeah, so there's a whole two books in the New Testament called 1 and 2 Thessalonians.

I'm going to start Jude this weekend. I'm going to start 1 and 2 Thessalonians. So, they heard Jesus was coming back and they thought it was in like 15 to 17 minutes. So, they all quit their jobs and started racking up their credit cards and dudes weren't getting married and they're just kind of sitting out in lawn chairs looking up, you know, waiting for the fireball. And Paul's like, go back to work, get married, live your life.

And so, that was 2,000 years ago. And so, every generation, somebody comes out, you know, with a chart and a graph and usually it's in crayon on an ammo box and not super official, but they're like, I figured it out. It's like, you probably didn't. And the problem with focusing too much on the end is you miss the immediate. And it's like a couple getting married and thinking about retirement, but they still haven't put in their career.

It's like you've got to get there. And so, think about it this way. When you were in high school, what did you do the last week of high school before you graduated? Oh, I threw, I mean, there was no grades, there was no studying, right?

I mean, it was part party. You don't do anything. If Christians think like Jesus is coming back next week, it's like the last week of high school. That's exactly right.

You don't do anything. And so, what I would rather do is I would rather go to work every day like he's coming back in a thousand years, and if he comes back and sees me busy, I'm sure I won't get in trouble. What do you want to be caught doing upon his return? Yeah, if he comes back and I'm preaching, he's like, hey Mark, you're unemployed.

I'm like, what a great day, you know. But I just want to do what I'm supposed to do until I'm dead or he returns. Do you think that, and I don't have any strong opinions in this way, do you think that the overemphasis though on this has created, let's just say complacent behavior in certain churches? It can be, it's not always, but it can be an escapist mentality. And that is that when hard things come, don't worry, you're not going to have to go through it. My experience is God sometimes delivers us from hardship, sometimes he delivers us through it. And not from it, you got to go through it. So, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, you're like, I'm in it. And so, you know, it would be great if God delivered us from it, but oftentimes we just got to go through it. And so, for me, like, I don't know when Jesus can come back. I always say, I'm not on the planning committee, I'm on the welcoming committee.

Like, I don't have the day on the calendar, but I always got a kazoo ready to go. I'm going to use all these, Mark, by the way. I'm writing them all down. By the way, the one that I'm tweeting is, I wrote this, if you tolerate it, they will dominate.

Boy, is that good. What power does Christ have over the demonic? What can we do against the demonic?

The calls to action, items to fight against these old demons that seem to have dominion over our land. Yeah, so there's us, but through sin, we have surrendered to Satan, who is now the prince of this world, the God of this world, the God of the air. He rules over us and our world. Over us and Satan and demons is our God, Jesus Christ. And he says all authority has been delegated to him.

So the only way you have authority over Satan and demons is if you belong to Jesus Christ and you're borrowing his authority. And it's like a child that gets adopted into a family. Now they have all the legal rights of being a son. So God is our Father, we get adopted into the family, we get the same legal rights as Jesus. And so this is where, Charlie, the issue is political and it is legal and it is judicial, but it's very spiritual. And you can't defeat the demonic spirits of this age without the Holy Spirit. So, yeah, but first of all, Roman adoption was actually more powerful than being born into somebody's blood family.

It was like the biggest thing. And so I don't think we understand that from a modern context. Holy Spirit, the Advocate, that's another theological, let's just say, disagreement amongst tribes that I'm in. What is the Holy Spirit? Yeah, I mean, for a lot of people, like the Father is the mean one, Jesus is the nice one, the Spirit is the weird one.

And that's not the way that it is. So in the story of Elijah, Ahab is passive, Jezebel is controlling. There's the Ahab Spirit and the Jezebel Spirit.

We all start more leaning one direction or the other. Elijah comes and he has the Holy Spirit. And Elijah stands against everyone and everything that is against God. And it says that John the Baptizer came in the spirit and power of Elijah. Jesus came in the spirit and power of Elijah. So if you want to know what it looks like to live by the Holy Spirit, it looks like Elijah. It looks like John the Baptizer. It looks like Jesus who, by the way, all three had head-on collisions with government because it's always God versus government. So to be filled with the Spirit is to have the character of Christ, the courage of Christ, and the clarity of Christ.

And so it's not so much about doing all of these wonderful things. Elijah does. He calls down fire from heaven.

He raises a dead young man. He causes it not to rain through prayer for three and a half years. He has these supernatural abilities and capacities. But to the end of the day, it's character and it's courage and it's clarity.

Yeah, and the word character in Greek means tattoo or imprint. It's a very powerful word. But the calls to action, because our people say, well, how about this? I have a woke pastor. What do I do, Mark? Get the hell out. Well, I can change him, Mark.

It's kind of like a marriage. I can change him. Yeah, no you can't. I mean, if you see that he is weak and woke, then who he is is worse because all you're getting is a portion of who they truly are and what they truly believe. And what happens with weak and woke pastors, they keep moving the line until there is no line. And so we heard this. I mean, there was a gal named Hillary Clinton speaking of Jezebel spirits. And she's like, we want abortion to be rare, safe and legal.

We know that's not true. It was just we want to move the line and then we're going to move it again and then we're going to move it again. Gay marriage is not the last line. It's like we want to have gay marriage and then we want to have polygamy. And that's coming in our lifetime. And pedophilia.

We want to move, yeah, minor attracted persons, which is, you know, pedophilia, changing the age of consent. And so if your pastor is good at going backward and not forward, it's only a matter of time before he backs himself off a cliff. So don't follow him. Yeah. And so get out. Right.

And find a church that is biblical. Yeah. And a pastor that's actually... That's an Elijah. Yes.

I mean, he gets up and you're like, man, I didn't know we were allowed to say that. But that is what the Bible said, because as a as a Bible teacher, you are not allowed to edit God's word. You are the mailman.

You need to deliver the mail and you're not allowed to edit the mail. Yet you're a messenger from one point to the other. That's it.

We get thousands of emails from faithful listeners. They say, I don't like my church. I can't find a good church. I can't. It's an epidemic, especially post-Covid. Yeah, it is. I mean, all of a sudden, the spirit of Jezebel closed down the church in the days of Elijah on planet Earth, only in the nation of Israel. The Jezebel spirit a few years ago didn't just take over a nation. It took over a planet and it closed the churches. It closed the churches for Easter for the first time in the history of planet Earth. Yes. The resurrection of Jesus was canceled. And the church was, and Pentecost too, Pentecost Sunday. Yep. Not too long after that, we just kind of rolled our eyes and we said, OK. Well, that's what the government said. Well, what did God say? Yeah.

And, you know, I want to get your take on Romans 13, because we hear about that one all the time. People are looking for their people. There's a sense of community.

Ekklesia is missing. Well, yeah. I mean, the Bible says that the world is not our home. You go to Target, you're like, this ain't my home.

You're like, I go to Disneyland, this ain't my home. I mean, you go to the Boy Scouts and they got a couple thousand kids recently under a rainbow flag. No, they're grooming kids for homosexual agendas at the Boy Scouts now. Totally.

I mean... And I'm an Eagle Scout, so it's like this, to see the destruction of that institution is just sick. No, and so, if you're a Bible-believing Christian, or if you're just a sane, heterosexual human being, you walk around and you're like, I feel like nowhere is home for me. I think that's where church needs to be countercultural.

It needs to be separated from the world, but open to the world. And it's like, this is where we believe the Bible. We love Jesus. We love each other. And we're just going to do things like God said, and this is the place for God's people.

So let me ask you, Mark, this is a difficult question. Do you think at times the church is too next world-focused than this world-focused? Yeah, and I think, you know, if you read the Bible and you hear about heaven, it's not, we're going to raise from the dead, the curse is going to be lifted, Satan and demons are gone, nobody gets sick, you get to hug your grandpa, you know, it's so bougie, the streets are lined with gold.

You're like, hey man, give me a one-way ticket as soon as possible. But the point is not to just get to heaven, but to get heaven to us. That's where Jesus prays, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And so what we want is we want heaven to come to us before we get to heaven.

And so how do you live your life in the presence of God, with the people of God, by the power of God, so that this world is actually a little bit enjoyable before it's over? And so I always like to tell our people, if you're not a Christian, this is your heaven, and you're going to hell, this is as close to heaven as you will ever be. If you are a Christian, this is your hell. This is as close to hell as you will ever be, and heaven awaits you.

And so, you know, for us, this is our hell. But how do we get heaven to visit us so that we have a little hope until we get to our heaven? Some people say we shouldn't even try to do that, right? That's a theological debate, right?

They say all that matters is the rescue mission, right? Get to the next life. This earth is not our home. Who cares if it falls apart?

It's just temporary. But then there's also, you could have to balance that with being a good steward and how God calls us to live. Jesus came into this world. Jesus worked a job. Jesus had relationships. Jesus didn't just come for 15 to 17 minutes and then exit.

He hung out here for a few decades. That's our example, is to follow Him. So, let's recap part of this.

New days, old demons, Mark Driscoll. Anything, I always ask this of our guests, anything we did not cover in the book that you want to make sure you emphasize in the themes, because you put a lot of work into it? Well, for those who are Christian, you need to see the world through the Bible. And so, what we tend to do is we have like our news feed and our Bible teaching.

I want to put the Bible teaching in front of the news feed. And I don't want to just look at the scriptures. I want to look through the scriptures to the world that we're living in and the demons that we're fighting against and the experiences that we're having. For those who are maybe church hurt, been through a rough season, pick up the book, forgive the people that have hurt you and find God and separate God and the church so that you can get back to God and maybe then find a good church. For those who are conservative but they're not Christian, you're halfway there.

You need Jesus Christ, because you don't need to know just what's wrong with the world, but the only hope and hero for it, and his name is Jesus. And once you start drinking from the streams of liberty, you're going to want to find its source. Jesus says, yeah, I'm going to set you free. His whole thing is freedom.

Yeah, John 10-10, which is what Satan does lies to eat, steal, cheat and destroy. I have come to give life and life more abundantly. What do you have to say to the criticism, Mark, that you're too political when you talk about these things? Everything is political. Everything is political. And so at the end of the day, if you're saying, well, I don't talk about abortion because it's political. It's not.

It's biblical. It's the murder of an innocent human being. And if we're going to be for social justice, it needs to be for the greatest holocaust in our lifetime. The most dangerous place on earth, even a few years ago, was not walking around without a mask. It was just being in your mother's womb.

The leading cause of death was not COVID. Even by the false standards, it was abortion. And so this is what frustrates me. Everything is political. Truth is political. Life is political.

Freedom is political. Church being open is political. And if you read the story of Elijah, every day, it's a head on collision between the prophet and the government. Same with John the baptizer. Same with Jesus Christ. They crucified Jesus because he was an offense to the authorities in the Roman government. Jesus died because he picked a fight with the political. So those who quote Romans 13, they're like, obey the government. It's written by a dude who did some of his best work from prison, started a number of riots. And if you look at Elijah, and you look at all the prophets, and you look at Daniel, and you look at Joseph, usually the government hates them, and God loves them, and they're a sledgehammer for justice.

Look at the midwives. We don't know if they're Egyptian or Hebrew in Exodus 2 or 3. It's civil disobedience.

Yeah, I think it's Exodus 2. It's the first act of civil disobedience, and it said, and it pleased God. And I think they're Egyptian.

I know it's debated, but it's actually even more powerful if they're Egyptian. They said, no, we're not going to kill the firstborn. Well, because government speaks, but above government is God.

And so they say this in Acts when they tell the early disciples, don't preach Jesus. They're like, we have to obey God, not government. And so I will obey the government until it disobeys God, and then I will appear to the higher authority. Because government doesn't have innate authority. It has derivative authority that comes from God.

Our whole nation is founded on that principle. And so many times, Mark, I heard pastors say, Charlie, I'm closing down mandating mass because of Romans 13. I'm like, man, your theology is so shallow, man. If that's your excuse. But those are the evangelical fish with no vertebrae.

Even jellyfish with no vertebrae. Yeah, that sounds about right. I love it. New days, old demons. Any closing thoughts, Mark?

No, thanks. This was fun. God bless you, man. We have your back, Mark.

Keep speaking the truth. God bless you. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

Email us your thoughts. As always, freedom at CharlieKirk.com. Thank you so much for listening.

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