Wes Hodkiewicz of Packers.com, Brewers swept by Braves

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You need Indeed. Good morning, everybody. I am Bart Winkler hijacking this studio microphone to sound a little bit better. I do have plans to buy a new microphone, but it's a lot more expensive than I thought. But I thought this would be a nice audio treat for you. Me sounding a little bit different. This is The Bart Winkler Show. It is great to be with you. Wes Hodkiewicz is going to be the star of this episode.

It is going to be pretty much his episode to shine. Wes Hodkiewicz, longtime writer for the Green Bay Press Gazette. We're going to talk about his time there and then get into his time with the Green Bay Packers. I think he's been with packers.com for about seven years. A big transition for any writer when you're on one side of the fence and then the other.

To stay afloat. I'm in the hot take business or whatever the hell I'm doing. A lot of things that I say about the Brewers, for instance, you ain't hearing that from me if I'm getting paid by Milwaukee Brewers Inc. That ain't happening. Wes had to adjust a little bit. I think it's a good behind the scenes look. I try to ask him a few questions that maybe he's never been asked in these kind of interviews before.

Just get to know him a little bit and present that to you. We do talk a little bit about the upcoming season. Some basic ask your beat writer of a website generic questions, but he gives much better answers than those questions deserve. Wes Hodkiewicz, it's good to talk to him and catch up with him.

We'll hear that a little bit later on in the show before we talk some Brewers. Hubbida hubbida. HappyPlacetime.com I want to tell you about them immediately because they deserve your attention. They have gummies and other products that have CBD in them, which can help you in a variety of different ways. CBD, the all encompassing rub it on your arm if you got an owie or your wrists have been hurting. If you're old, if you have plantar fasciitis, one of the millions of Americans that suffer.

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Do me a favor and at least browse the site, see what we're talking about. HappyPlacetime.com. I've got no Carl's Place voicemails for you today.

Carl's Place, carlvt.com backslash BART for the golf simulators. No brewer related ones, so the ones I do have I might save. I am planning to do a brewer's show Monday and Tuesday night.

So here's what I was planning to do. I was planning to do a trade deadline show on Tuesday live. I didn't realize the trade deadline was at five o'clock.

Five o'clock on Tuesdays is swimming lessons for the boy. So instead I'm going to do a post game for the brewers on Monday, which will serve as a what should they do? And then I'm going to do a post game for the brewers on Tuesday, which will serve as why didn't they do what they should have done?

So those things coming up. Tough weekend for the brewers. They got swept by the Braves.

A lot of people upset the Braves had one of those weekends where you're just not going to beat them. They hit like 400 in this series. The Brewers gave up in a three game series, the most runs 29.

That's the most they've given up. Our friend Kurt Hogue with the stat in a series since 2019. So this was a series we haven't seen in about four years and they were hitting a little bit too. The Brewers were hitting a little bit.

It wasn't always like they were in these games. Sunday's game I was watching as I was doing CBS Sports Radio and I'd check in between segments. I couldn't watch the game.

I'd get too distracted. I'm not going to do a CBS Sports Radio shift where I'm doing play by play for the Brewers, although I could have, but 10-7, 11-5, and then 8-6. So finally this team that can't score dick for runs puts up a bunch of runs and they just can't keep up the pace. Julio Teran got drilled, so obviously he's on the injured list. Carlos Santana's a brewer. He hit a home run.

That was nice. I bet on him. I did bet on him to hit one Saturday and he didn't, but then he went on a Sunday.

I fucked that up. Now they've got the Nationals, so hopefully things change a little bit. I think that there's been a lot of teams. What's interesting about this time of the year in baseball is that these series somehow are more important than the other series at any other time in the year because teams are deciding what they're going to do. What are we going to do? If you're the Cubs, you were selling.

You were selling. Marcus Stroman, gone. Cody Bellinger, gone. Then they won eight in a row. They ain't trading those guys now.

Not when you're three and a half back in the Central. They're not going to trade those guys anymore. The Brewers will be in second as of Monday morning as the Reds, as I'm recording this, destroying the Dodgers. Some trades in baseball. Cardinals are selling off some pitchers.

Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery. Max Scherzer is a Ranger. Looks like he'll start Thursday. If there is a big Brewers trade, we'll talk about it tomorrow. If for some reason they get Eloy Jimenez overnight, I didn't add on to this one. This is Wes Hodkiewicz's Time to Shine. I'm just doing a little Brewers segment so that I can put the ads in the proper placement where they need to go before I give you all of Wes. I need ads in the first 30% of the show.

That's why it's structured the way it is. A little hint or secret. I also wanted to talk about the Brewers and to tell you that we'll be live talking about the Brewers Monday and Tuesday night.

I would like to do something for the U.S. Soccer Women's Game Tuesday morning at 2 a.m. I don't know that I will. You know what I think about with the series against the Brewers? It's not that they ran into a Braves team. The Braves are hard to beat. Clearly they're a class ahead of the Brewers.

MKEMat13 on Twitter, I see this from him. He's with Reviewing the Brew. He says the Brewers are 7-2-1 in their last 10 series. The two series they lost were both to the Braves. On one hand, it's like a good measuring stick that the Brewers are not the Braves.

On the other, it is a measuring stick that tells you you're competitive against everybody else. So what do you do if you're a team like this? Did this series motivate them any less or more to make trades? What if the Brewers are around 500? If the Brewers came into this series around 500 and got swept by the Braves, we could be sellers. So that's why, like I say, these games are important and they are important because the trade deadline's coming up.

But that's why every game's important. Some of those games that they won by one run or walk off, every game's important because if the Brewers had any worse of a record coming into this series, this series against the Braves was devastating enough from a pitching standpoint that you could have deemed yourself as bad. Now the Brewers would still give the argument, we're getting Brandon Woodruff back, we're getting Brian Anderson back, we're getting Roddy Tellez back. They thought they were getting Justin Wilson back. That sucks. He got hurt. I just want to say every game of the 162 matters. Sometimes we feel like it doesn't, but it all does.

It all matters. So Brewers post-game show Monday and Tuesday. Packers, again, I haven't seen too much of the training camp because they're very strict about videos. I did see all the reports that people loved Jordan Love's performance on Saturday. I'm really thinking he's going to be good. I really am. Also, I broke the seal on CBS Sports Radio on Friday night.

I've gone all in. I do trash Rogers again now. I took the summer off from that, but I'm back.

I'm out of retirement. And I thought that it was cute that he made a Sean Payton story now and Aaron Rodgers story. Sean Payton's bitching about the Jets and Nathaniel Hackett.

Suddenly Rogers is saying, keep my coach's name out of your mouth. He could have said anything else. He could have said, yeah, you know, I just kind of like, that's not something I want to get into.

I wouldn't be talking about people that way. He could have said any other answer, but he went for the sexy clickbait answer. And it, he put out honey and it attracted bees like me. So I'm back. I'm back bitching about this guy. I tried.

I really tried my best, but I really don't like him. I'm going to, I'm going to be so happy to see him retire his number as a Packer. I'm going to be very happy. And that day I'm going to think of all the great moments. I'm going to think of the hail Marys. I'm going to think of the gotcha plays offsides, the free plays. I'm going to think of the play against Detroit and Arizona and Jeff Janice. I'm going to think of I own you. I'm going to think of Superbowl 45.

I'm going to think of it all. He gave me a lot of great memories. He gave me a lot of great seasons.

He really did. But right now I hope this guy does not win another game in his professional career. And I don't care. I don't think that, that, I don't, that I don't, I want the Jets to be bad. So we get a better pick if I have to justify it, but I'm not trying to, I'm just, I don't like them. So I don't want to see him succeed. Now, will I quietly play a Aaron Rogers Jets stack on DraftKings every week to hedge my emotions? Of course I will, but I don't want to, but I will have to do that. Wes Hod coming up. We'll do that.

He will also be the video of him and I talking is on the YouTube stream. You can check that out when it's posted that courtesy of Dan Cheney, Dan Cheney insurance. Check him out. Dan Cheney.com for all of your work, business, home auto. If you need something insured, Dan Cheney will get you a quote. More often than not is we're finding out from a lot of you guys that have already called them, get you a lower rate, same coverage, sometime even better. And for a lower rate, that's what Dan's able to do. So check him out.

Wes Hodkiewicz next, Bart Winkler show. We're driven by the search for better, but when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search match with Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed data and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day. Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences. Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash blue wire.

Just go to indeed.com slash blue wire right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast indeed.com slash blue wire terms and conditions apply need to hire you need Indeed. Without the ones like you who work tirelessly to keep things running, everything would suddenly stop. Hospitals, factories, schools and power plants. They all depend on you.

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Count on real time product availability and fast delivery call click Grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Joining the program is Wes Hodkiewicz, longtime writer, formerly of the Green Bay Press Gazette, longtime contributor at the fan when that used to exist. And now with packers.com. Wes, thanks for coming on. How are you? Absolutely, buddy. I felt like this was years in the making to finally make this happen.

It's like bringing the whole SSP thing back full circle again. So happy to be here. Yeah, well, we're all still kind of mostly out of work, but it's good to talk to you. Hey, one of my old coworkers just got placed on the Packers board of directors.

Hey, I know it, right? I mean, I was so excited. I actually got a chance to see Leroy after he was down there looking dapper as ever.

And he came out and biggest smile in the world. I'm just so excited for him. It's cool when you see somebody that I think is so richly deserving a hall of fame honor like that, but just to see the world start to understand and know the Leroy Butler that we've all known for so long. And the reason I'm always felt so connected to Leroy in addition to doing the big show with him was he was a guy when I was a little rugrat running around the beat, 20 something years old, not really having a lot of people to go to. I don't think there's been one time where Leroy Butler hasn't answered my phone call. And at a certain point, dude, especially my first couple of years, there's a Rolodex of former Packers, current Packers, people that weren't, they weren't picking up that cell, but Leroy Butler has always made time for me. So when he, anything he does, man, I champion him to the fullest. Cause he's one of my favorite human beings, former Packers.

Sure. But I mean, in terms of people that come into your life and you appreciate, they don't get much better than that guy. Well, he's one of the guys, I said this the other day, but I'll say it again.

Cause it's him and a Jim Paschke that we used to do bucks games forever. These are two guys that are so nice. And I've told both of them this. I said, you're so nice that there'd be there, there became a point where my whole mission was to see you screw up. Like I am going to find the moment where you take the mask off and you're evil. Like you're faking it.

And it never, it doesn't happen with those two, especially as I call them leap. Yeah. I mean, the beautiful thing about Leroy is again, he's one of those human beings that, and I wish I could be like this. I, if he's had a bad day, he hasn't let me see it. Maybe Genesis has, but I mean, I, the guy has always got a smile on his face. And also from the Green Bay Packers perspective, being able to work on this side of it with them.

I mean, you talk about great ambassadors, people just at a drop of a hat, willing to show up and, and go to a charity event or go to something cool like that. He's always there. And that's, that's incredible.

I think that's a testament to him and, and obviously the life that he leads. So growing up when you, or even, you know, back in the day, when you saw the transition that happened between Farve to Rogers, were you like, I'd love to be working at that place when another transition happens. Cause that's what you've just had to experience and, and are still experiencing.

Yeah. I'll tell you what though, Bart, I don't know if you could ever compare the two. Cause I was a little, I was doing like, I was a part-time preps reporter in 2008 when that all went down at the press cause that, and I watched Rob Dimofsky and Tom Pellicero and Mike Vandermoss, that whole crew. I mean, I think there were probably some sleepless nights mixed in there and I'll never forget, dude. I was on vacation with my now wife. We were down visiting some family and the whole thing happened where family night happened where Farve showed up and I'll never forget. I was coming back to work that following week and Vandermoss called me up and he's like giving me the schedule. And dude, we're talking about like not meaningless things. Cause it was important to my job, but like the high school cross country preview, right.

For our area, stuff like that. And I'm like, Mike, you guys got Brett Farve flying in a thunderstorm in the middle of the night. It's like, I respect the dedication to the sports editing craft here, but it's like, you got, you got bigger problems right now than what I can offer you. And seeing what, how tumultuous that time was compared to this. I mean, yeah, certainly it's been a long drawn out process here the last couple of years, but I kind of count myself somewhat fortunate that I wasn't having to show up at any airports or anything like Dimofsky did and being able to actually, you know, see the thing happen. And it took time, but at the end of the day, I felt like it ended up being kind of a win-win for both sides. I mean, Rogers gets his next step chapter, which just so happens to also be in New York while the Green Bay Packers, you know, get to move on to Jordan Love, who we got to figure out what he is as a quarterback, but in terms of a professional and someone that I think has done every single thing, right. That he could the last three years, finally get to see what he looks like under center. You know, I would think like the writer in you and I'll talk to about the love stuff in a second, but there's, there's, I don't know when you first make the leap from like newspaper to packers.com, everyone's going to be like, you know, you know what they say, but there's gotta be some times where you're like, and maybe it's all the time, but there's gotta be some times where you're like, I am so glad that I'm working for packers.com where I can just report on what's happening and not like log into flight aware and see where Brian Hootikin's plane is.

I'll tell you camping out at the airport. The two things that hurt me the most, dude. So I started working at the press cause that when I was 18, a year into that, I was helping people clean out their cabinets and, you know, be laid off and things like that. I can't imagine how many different layoffs I went through in those 10 years I was there.

I was always fortunate enough, but a lot of my colleagues and friends weren't. So for me, that was the first thing. Cause my wife and I, we talked about it. I'm like, okay, where are we going to set up our next chapter of our life? Are we going to be here? Is this where we're going to start a family?

Well, if you're going to do that, and I'm from Green Bay, I went to school at Green Bay. This is where I want to be. So that was sort of the thing for me when I, when I made that move, it was all about what, what's going to be the best that keeps us here in the long run. But in the back of my mind too, Bart, I'll never forget this.

One of the biggest things that stood out to me about why I felt like I needed to start making a transition was I was sitting at dinner with my wife. This was like, dude, this is like a March, Saturday night. And one of my favorite all time packers, really great human being, Andy Malumba had just signed with the Kansas city chiefs. God bless Andy.

I love him, but with all due respect, it is Andy Malumba, right? This wasn't Clay Matthews. This wasn't Aaron Rogers getting traded, but you get that text message. You get that call. Next thing I know I'm leaving my wife at the dinner table and I'm out on the sidewalk trying to get ahold of Andy's agent to confirm that he signed with Kansas city on a Saturday night.

No disrespect. Nobody cares. And that aspect of it is what I think ultimately kind of drove me out of the business. Cause I kind of got handy, like just kind of handcuffed to being a beat like news guy.

And I wasn't able to do as much writing as I wanted to. So to get back to your question, when you have things like this and it's important, people obviously care about it and they want to talk about it, but it's just the, the amount of doors that you have to bang on and the amount of the lengths that you have to go for information that is already readily available for just for the sake of being the paper of record. That's the part of it. I think that I breathe the biggest sigh relief on being on this side of it now is it's like the way I handle the packers.com gig. I'm never going to go because there's a lot of people I respect in the business.

Adam McKelvey was one of them. I saw what he did with brewers.com. I've seen what a lot of my friends that made the transition around the league. I'm never going to sit there and write, you know, so-and-so is the worst player ever. They need to cut him.

Right. But at the same time, my whole goal has never to been Ben X player, a player. This guy's playing great.

When the rest of the world can see he's struggling. The nice thing about being an NFL beat reporter is there's 53 guys in that locker room. And I'll never forget one of the lessons I learned from Pete Doherty and Cliff Crystal. And that was going back to some of the rougher days when some guys maybe weren't willing to talk to me in the locker room was you need five guys to cover an NFL football team. You really need five players that are willing to talk to you.

And that's that'll get you through an entire season. I took that to heart. So being on this side of it, I just try to tell more of the people's stories. I try to give more of a glimpse behind the scenes and then obviously leaving it to the true beat, the true beat guys out there that have to unfortunately kind of scratch the ground a little bit when the Aaron Rodgers stuff happens. Well, yeah, I mean, there's those guys that do that. And if people are looking for like, negativity, I mean, there's 9000 of me's.

I think you're a little hard on yourself there. He's doing these weird, you know, I love like, after a game, I'll do post games. And it's like, I'm doing a post game. And then these people are doing a post game.

It's like, there's 40 post game. At the same time, just like, if you just listen to it at some point during the week, but I get it though, right? Because like, I'm a huge UFC fan. That's something I do in my free time. I love, you know, MMA. What's the first thing I do after like a UFC pay-per-view? I'm going immediately to the press conferences. I'm going to the analysis, the experts, because you want to continue the conversation.

So I get it. The thing I love most about this beat though, is the fact that there are all those different people and there's all those people willing to consume that content, right? Because dude, there are a lot of teams in the national football league. They are not lucky with that kind of following. I know there's specific teams.

I won't name them, but they'll basically credential anybody because they're trying to just get people in their locker room to talk to their players, to tell perspectives, to sell tickets. The Green Bay Packers. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons why I wanted to stay in Green Bay so much and why I love the state. I love the Brewers and all these other teams because people do care.

And especially if you win, you know, people are going to want to be able to follow that product and see how far that that journey can go. You were out to dinner with your wife. Do you remember where my, my wife was in a sushi. Oh, we're at a now defunct place called Bonsai in De Pere, Wisconsin. And to make it even more depressing. It was one of those joints that like, it's an old school to peer place. The building was probably 150 years old where you walk in and you immediately have to go down the stairs. So it was like an old mafia film. Like I left her down there at the table and I had to go up the stairs and back up to the Broadway up there to be on the phone asking what kind of one year contract Andy signed. I mean, that was just depressing because my wife, when we met, she lived in Green Bay.

She lived in alleyway. So we used to always go to there's this place in the pier. It's a Mexican place. El Caliente. Yeah. Is it really? Yeah. El Caliente. Yep.

Yeah. And then there's one in alleyway. I think Los McGooey's.

We went to a lot. It's a very popular one still to this day is Jimmy C's still kicking. It was, I feel like it's not.

And if it is, it's a reincarnation of it. But I, cause one time I tried to go there and I found out as soon as I drove down, cause it's right on the water that as soon as I drove down, it was no longer operational. They had closed up shop, but I haven't been down there in a while.

I heard a rumor that maybe it had been back or something. I've been back in that space. There was one time we were there. I didn't say hi to him, but Larry McCarron was there. Oh, you should've said hi. It was 95 degrees and he was in jeans.

That's true. Larry doesn't wear shirts, bro. I tell my wife, I go, that's Larry McCarron, Packers, whatever.

Why is he wearing jeans? The most startling. So the one thing that's cool about the Packers, the press Gazette, by the way, they ended up getting rid of our YMCA of memberships. You couldn't get free YMCA memberships anymore.

So you can get, you know, diabetes or whatever they didn't care. But the cool thing about the Packers is they have like a little, it's not huge, but there's this little employee workout area. And I'll never forget this. It was the most startling thing in the world for me the first time. Well, in addition to feeling really sad about my diminutive stature and watching a guy like Larry and some of these people that have been doing this entire life as professional athletes, but Larry was actually wearing shorts and I couldn't think in my head right away about what seemed off.

But then I was like, you know what, all these years, whether I was at the press Gazette, the Packers, whatever. Yeah. Larry, Larry is a pants man. It can be, he could be on the face of the sun and that guy is going to be wearing pants.

And I mean, you can only respect it. So, but you shouldn't have totally said hi, but my mom did that once. She's like, I saw Larry at Los Banditos in on what, on Mason street in green Bay. And I'm like, well, why didn't you say hi?

She's like, ah, I was a little nervous. And then the coolest story, I got to tell this story quick. My dad was at this place called D2 in green Bay and he, my dad's, I get my extrovertedness from my dad. My mom's more introverted and he's, he's, he'll go up and talk to anybody.

And he didn't want to interrupt him. He's like, Hey, you know, Mr. McCarron, I just want to let you know my son is Wes Hodkowitz. He, he works with you at the Packers and Larry, and only the best way Larry could ever do it. I mean, just talking about making w whether I'm a screw up or not, but making a father feel great about his son just gave him the best compliment ever in terms of just the type of kid that he raised.

And that made me feel like a million bucks, but more, it made my dad feel really good about it. So my point being is next time, I don't care if it's at Lambeau field, I don't care. Just quickly go and say hi to Mr. Larry McCarron. Cause he is, we got to enjoy him while he's, while he's doing this.

Cause he is an absolute legend. I have a story about my grandparents that I want to tell you. Let's do it. So my name is Bart, obviously. And I've always asked my parents if I was named after Bart star. Are you Bartlett? Are you, is a full Bartlett? Just Bart. Okay.

All right, cool. And then when I found out his real name was Brian Bartlett star, I like died inside. Cause there's so many people you meet as Bart's and they're like, Oh, you're Bart too. And he goes, no, my name's Steve Barkowski, even a UWM basketball coach, Bart Lundy.

It's not his real name either. You're an authentic Bart. Sorry to interrupt your story though.

Go ahead. But you're talking to your grandparents. They apparently the story is I've got, you know, the, the sheet, the Bart star picture that everyone's got autographed. Yeah. The story is they saw him in an airport when I was a baby and they said, our grandson's name is Bart.

Can you sign this? And a year later he saw them and asked how Bart was doing. It's unbelievable, man. The guy you, again, it's true.

I always thought they were blowing smoke. I honestly think, dude, there's a real chance that that's true. I honest to God mean that because you know, I was talking about being one of the great ambassadors, Bart star. So we do this thing, an insider inbox where we have to do this Q and a six days a week, right? It's 52 weeks out of the year.

It's like, it's a contract thing. We have to do it. You can't take a break from it. So it's myself and Mike Spofford. It's us all year long. Well, to give ourselves a little bit of break, I started doing this thing called outsider inbox like five years ago, which is where we just ask the questions that people answer and then I can curate those for an entire week and both of us can take off.

It's a really good deal for us. Anyway, one of the questions and it's valuable, people like this stuff. So, but one of the questions ended up being basically like, tell us your favorite Packers memory. We always switch it up every year, but I can't tell you Bart, how many times I, I asked a question like that and people said they either met Bart star where he didn't have a pen. And then he ended up sending them a letter six months later with a signed photo or stuff like that, where people had an interaction with them, not even in green Bay might've been in Alabama, might've been at a card set, something where he actually, whether it was him or cherry, however they did it, that he kind of had this, the steel trap memory and was incredibly diligent following up.

And I think that's one of the coolest things about that generation is they, I don't want to say they'd appreciated it more, but they were, I think they did a better job of showing what fans truly mean to them and how effective they were and be able to kind of give back to those fans that support them. So I don't, I don't, I'm not, is it Mr. And Mr. Mr. And Mrs. Winkler or is that the mom's side? The grandpa, my dad's parents. Yeah. Okay. So I'm saying grandma and grandpa Winkler, they're not necessarily just blowing smoke up their young grandsons, but that this could actually be a legitimate story. All right. Well that I, cause I've asked my grandma swears it, but you never know. They might be a whatever.

A couple of more West centric questions. Yeah. I'm curious. So when you take the job with packers.com, is there something that you thought would be like hard or the biggest challenge? And now seven years later, you're like, Oh, that's actually easier or the one of the better parts of my job. Yeah. Yeah.

It's definitely the aspect of being behind the wall, so to speak. Right. Like I always, I remember having a joking with Jordy Nelson about this about six years ago, we did this thing when they, when they brought us all in to a team meeting back in 2016, it was right when I started. And that's when probably there was the most people on the football, like mostly the player side of things were like, Oh, they're hiring this guy. That's kind of different.

But I'll never forget it. They did a thing where they brought in everybody from Packers media. So our social media people, our video people, Larry himself, I mean, talk about just an absolute living legend and applause he gets. And then they said, Wes Hotquitz. And it was like this, this Bronx sort of like cheer mixed with like, like we're just going to clap just to be nice.

And then there's other people that are kind of booing in the background. And I remember later on Jordy Nelson, I had a good laugh about that. I was that first year in particular and everyone was great for the most part. People really did make me feel like I made the right decision now. But the difference now though, is you get, I felt like I got to know players better now.

I mean, I'm not throwing up anybody's house, you know, playing PS five with them, but like Kenny Clark's, for example, Kenny's like one of my all time favorite guys, just because I never covered him on the other end of it. He came in in 2016, just like I came in in 2016, a month after I started, he was drafted here. So I've covered now his career for seven years and he's just known me as the website guy. So that, that part of it, I think was probably the biggest transition that I was worried about because I did the move for all the right reasons. But when you cover a team critically for five years, you know what it's like, I mean, it can be tough and not that I was sitting around, you know, creating all these headlines and trying to be a rebel rouser in the locker room, but I mean, you got to cover the team from what you see on the football field.

And there were some tough years for Green Bay in there, you know, a couple of times. So that aspect of it has been cool. And then just being able to kind of grow those relationships moving forward now, I think has probably been the neatest part, both, both with just the locker room, but also the guys in facilities and the people that work in finance and are ticketing people. I mean, there's just so many, I felt blessed in that I went from a place at the press Gazette where there was 35 people in the newsroom when I left. And unfortunately a lot of them were on the older side of things too. It's cool being able to sort of mentor people now on this side of it, right.

Get interns in there and I can give them my experience now. I think that's really fun. So in that way, it's been a really, really fulfilling transition. Not that I don't want to think the team I've been the most critical about is the team on my hat, the Brewers. Hey, it happens, man. Back, back in, you go back to college, Wes Hodkiewicz and the Ned Yost years. I was pretty critical too, at that point.

So I, I understand. I just don't think like, not that I would, people like send me when the Brewers have like jobs or something. I'm like, they're not ever hiring. And I would, I would, I would have to like everyone that's there now in any capacity would have to have been gone before I even think about applying.

That was actually one of the things. So my, my process for coming to the Packers was like seven months long, Bart. It was like, I think I did my first interview while I first started talking about it in like October of 15, I didn't get hired over there until like end of April. And I'll, I'll never forget one of the conversations I had with somebody was, you know, how does Mike feel about this? Mike McCarthy at the time. And basically the message that was relayed to me as well, Mike, Mike didn't want you here.

You probably wouldn't be here. So it's like, you just, you just kind of do the best you can. But I I've always been a communicator. I've tried to be a communicator. I, I came up in this business, dude. I'm 35. I started doing this when I was 18.

So it's almost half my life at this point. So I love journalism. I love sports media and everyone's got to kind of do their own thing and do what's best for them and their family. And this has kind of been my path. So everybody does it differently with the brewers when I covered them and got like the credential.

I don't have it now, but the thing that I miss the most is I got to go pretty, I mean, not everywhere, but you got to be in a lot of places that now when I buy a ticket, I can't go to, is there like a part of Lambo that you wish more fans could see or a part of your day-to-day that you wish they could have more access to? Yeah, dude, that, that is by far probably one of the best questions anyone's ever asked me on these things, because I think that's the thing that's most special for. Walk out, mic drop.

I always cock off that I'm a great interviewer and it's great to have the interviewee. Look at that. Look at that. You sons of bitches.

Look at that. But you would admit, why are you critical of the brewers, right? Because I think at some level, you want to see them succeed. You want to see Milwaukee as a town, right? I love the brewers.

They're just so easy to make fun of. But along with that goes Miller Park, it goes AmFam Field, whatever you want to call it now, and what you see and what it represents. So I grew up in Green Bay, Wisconsin, going to Chuck E. Cheese as a five-year-old driving past Lambo Field to go to bring my high school girlfriend to a movie at Bay Park Mall, going to different restaurants. Lambo Field's always there. And I think there, I've always said this, the one thing like we can do for families, we can do tours, like before home games, now that COVID's kind of passed. And it's a neat experience because you get to go back into some of the football facilities. But the thing I always enjoy the most showing people is going up to the seventh floor.

And if you do the tour, you can go check out the seventh floor, especially now that construction's finished. You can go up to the seventh floor and looking down on that field. And especially when nobody's in the stadium is the coolest experience. Because for me, that's where the historian in me, the history person in me is like, may not be the same ground, may not be the same grass, but in that spot, like one of the most iconic teams in the National Football League's history, if not the most iconic, all that history since 1957 has happened in that spot. And I think of those opportunities, a lot of times before home games, on Fridays before I leave, I'll go up into the south end zone and in that area, and I'll kind of take a lap.

Let's go walk around. And there's so many cool things and cool people in that building that make all those pieces fit together, that you can kind of appreciate what makes that stadium special. And whether it, like I said, whether it's the seventh floor in the south end zone, the highest point in Green Bay, Wisconsin, whether it's going down and walking through the tunnels and going through the concourse, which looks beautiful now with all the renovations that they do, there's so many neat spots that I think make that stadium what it is.

And yeah, I just think, and I'll, one other quick story when you ask about locations, because I'm the only one that knows this in terms of, well, some people know this. If you remember when Odell Beckham Jr. punched the wall, like after the playoff game in 16. So me, which would have been still under 30, so I was somewhat juvenile back then, me and a couple of my colleagues, we all like ran down there after the game because we're like, okay, they're going to plaster over that thing. That's going to be gone to history.

It's like, but you got to, Odell Beckham Jr. put his fist through this wall. We got to see this thing. So we went down there.

I remember taking a quick little picture of it. And now every time I walk, it's over in the media area, it's on your way. If you're walking into the visiting locker room and it's like, it's that type of stuff that you realize in that space right there, Bart, and just for a quick minute, it's those types of things that eventually some people a hundred years from now won't care about. But in that moment, one of the top players of the national football league, that's the type of stuff that happens.

And it happens on a daily basis there. Well, not that exactly, but cool things. I you know, grew up a Packer fan obviously too. And now I'm trying to, I've always said, I don't, my son doesn't need to like sports for me to like love him. Yeah. But I am really going to make sure I try to ingrain it in him and we're going to take him to the Sunday, Saturday preseason game. Nice. Yeah. That's the bet. Like, thank, what a great, what a great day for a preseason game.

Unbelievable afternoon. I don't know how, and it's great too for his first game. It's like, I don't care if they win. I'm not going to be like a loser dad. I'm we, uh, we stayed at an Airbnb up there for a family thing and it took them over to the stadium and, uh, we bought some in the pro shop and I think it's like, he, he sees G and he knows Packers and, um, he plays with, I have all these old starting lineups. So yeah, they had a Reggie whites that he would play with and he knows like some of these guys. Yeah.

Do you try to ask Moses your son or do you, what are you trying to do? So here's, what's funny. My wife could not care less about what I do for a living. Obviously the financial aspect of health care for everyone loves dental insurance, but, uh, the thing that's neat about it though, is that he doesn't necessarily know what I do, but he knows I work at the football stadium.

Like he gets that. And one of the coolest things that I ever did is so, so my parents, you know, I'm, I'm your standard, my, both of my parents worked in a paper mill up here. I'm your standard middle-class kid in green Bay, Wisconsin. So we didn't have season tickets. I got to go to Packer games by that Brown County lottery as a kid.

Right. And it always seemed like at least once every other year we were going to the preseason game, just like you're going to do. And that's where I actually kind of found my love for this thing was going with my dad to those preseason games and watching Tim couch completely looked like a dumpster fire and enjoy those experiences. So one of the coolest things I did is again, going back to those tours, we can do right after my son was born two years after he was born, we went down in the field and one of those Saturday tours and like took a picture with my dad and my, and his grandson, my child, my, my grandma too, and my mom too, his grandma, but she doesn't care as much about it.

So if Killian cares, if he wants to go, you know, work there someday or do equipment or work in it or whatever, I'll be well open to opening that opportunity for him. But I think the thing I want the most is if he can have an appreciation for sports and if it's something he chooses to actually watch or enjoy or do, I'll support him. And if he doesn't and he's like me and like Pokemon as a kid and things like that, that's fine too.

But the cool thing is, is by having that I'm an only child. So having that bond with my dad growing up, I wasn't like this like living and dying Packer fan. Like I was more of a Brewer fan, to be honest with you. Um, just cause I like baseball more. If you look at me, you'd be surprised. I wasn't actually a really good athlete or a football player.

So it's kind of harder to get into that. Um, I played soccer, swam and ran. Yes. Yes.

Perfect. I was a soccer kid too. So, um, but it was still neat to be able to bond with my father over that stuff. Bond with my grandfather over that stuff. My grandfather was a huge Packers fan. You know, he was the one that I remember when I was a kiddo saying, Hey, Bob Harlan's trying to get this new stadium. You guys, we got to support this.

This is gonna be important for you. And then lo and behold, his grandson ends up working for the team, but I sure hope Kelly likes sports, but any we're doing soccer right now with them. Um, but, um, yeah, probably like your kiddo too. I mean, yeah, we did soccer with him. He hated it, but then, uh, just the other day we were in the car and he goes, when am I going to do soccer again? And it's like, he hated it. We left three times, but now he wants to play again.

I don't know. I'll tell you what though, dude, I think the one I'm going to try to force him on is probably pro wrestling. Like if, if kill doesn't like pro wrestling, we're probably going to have some problems.

We'll see if he, if he ends up following me down that path at all. Oh, what you said about UFC and like trying to, after I walked out, I'm a wrestling guy too. After like any of these events, I go and like, what did people say?

Yes. Twitter. But then I like grab, I ended up gravitating towards the guys. I hate what did they say? And I'm like, Oh, then I like tweet them and then delete it. I get off.

I think my favorite thing is when I, uh, will ultimately end up sending, not, I always try to be somewhat creative, but then I'll send a tweet to like the WWE account and then like 10 minutes later being like, dude, you're 35. Just delete that. Forget that this all happened. Yeah, no, I'm with you. Uh, should I ask you about the team? I think that I can ask you about the team. Well, I mean, I think like team wise, this is a new era and I know Matt LaFleur this week was asked about the new offense and he's like, it's not a new offense, but to us, we feel like it is.

Yeah. Here's, here's what I think I want from the Packers and how I think they're going to succeed. So this is just me saying this, the worst they are as a fantasy football team.

I think the better there'll be outside of Jordan love. Like I want, I want all these receivers to have like 50 catches each. I want these tight ends, four of them to make a team. And one day it's this guy's game.

One day it's this guy's game. I want the running backs to be active. And I, that's kind of like where I would think, we don't know. We, we talk about Matt, LaFleur's offense, Matt, LaFleur's offense, and we think we see it, but how much of that is Rogers? We never know. I think it would be, if I look at these other offenses, a lot of people are involved and a lot of people are going to have the chance to succeed. Is that something that we might see?

Bart, you hit it on the head. Cause again, that that insider inbox column we did, somebody kind of asked me about what I think this offense is going to look like. And I said more than any other tier that I've covered the team, I think this is year 12 for me now. I think that wide receivers, three through five, all could have roles. I think tight ends one through four definitely could have roles. And I think even there's a room for an RB three to, to, to be able to have maybe not 10 carries a game, but be able to do something that they contribute. If you go back to the construct of LaFleur's system and some of the things he's tried to do over the years, he has tried to get a third running back involved.

So I think you're spot on in that. And I think the more players that step up, the bigger it's going to be for this unit, because I just look at the multiplicity of the scheme and certainly you have guys like Christian Watson, Romeo Dobbs, they're going to get their snaps. They're going to be the featured players in this offense. But you know, I think you look at what a guy like Don Tavian Wicks did during the off season program. I made this comment with Mike Spofford, my colleague, you know, if it wasn't for Dobbs and Watson and all these young guys, Jayden, you know, Reed as a second round pick, if we flash back a year ago, I think Don Tavian Wicks could have been the headline the same way that Romeo Dobbs was.

I thought Wicks had a really nice spring. And the more of those guys can come in and look the part and be comfortable. I think the better that this offense is going to be, the biggest key for them though, is especially if they run young here at tight end, making sure that those young guys can block and do some of those small things that this offense really does require. Now you could get more six O-line stuff happening if you need it. But that was one of the beautiful things that they could do with, with Mercedes Lewis is you could kind of mix that up a little bit and you don't necessarily have to tell on yourself as much by putting a six offensive lineman out there. But I like it. I like the fact that people know that you don't have necessarily all these different melts that have to get fed. You can kind of spread it out and mix it up.

And I feel like if guys can stay healthy with how young they are, I mean, the cream will rise to the top out of that group. Now for those listening, I do want, I, I read Wes's column and framed a question off of what you wrote. So you could highlight your column. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Whatever we can do to get people to the website. It's just this journalism. That's how I'm doing. That's the key. That's the, that is the radio and podcast 101 is, Hey, what did this guy write recently? How can I feed into his content rather than just saying, Hey, go to Joe Schmuck's website and he wrote something about a couple players. You know, I appreciate that. Thank you. But no, I mean, but, but I do, I do think that is going to be, I will agree.

I think that's the strength of the offense, being able to use all those different phases. You knew Tim Allen from the fan. Yeah, absolutely. So he, I just talked to him the other day and he said the funniest thing to me that I can't get over. He goes, if you ever want to ask a radio guy how he's doing, tell him that you just went to the doctor and, and then go, I go, Tim's like, and I, and then I said, I know Tim, I just went to the doctor and I got this foot thing and I got this plantar fasciitis. That's how you get these radio guys to talk, tell them something about you.

You went to the doctor and then these idiots will. Absolutely. I mean, Hey, Tim's the master too. I was actually, it was fun. I got a chance to actually talk with him a couple a week or two ago.

It was good getting on the radio with him again. Oh, nice. Good. Good. Yeah.

Miss, miss Tim so much too. Defensively. I'll ask you one, I guess from, from what I'm thinking with the team and maybe offenses in the mix too here, it seems like, all right, we kind of know the team.

Everybody does their little depth charts, three D here's my prediction. Yeah. Do you think there's, are there more spots up for grabs, especially on that side of the ball is training camp.

And I saw one coach, I forget who it was, but their whole thing was we watch what happens, but we don't start to make any personnel decisions until that first game. Yeah. Is, is there like, is there an added importance to this training camp? Cause it's not just Rogers left.

It's right. A lot of guys left. A lot of guys, a lot of depth pieces, right? When you look at safety, when you look at defensive line, the kicker kicker, that's not nothing, right? I mean, that's a huge quantum change and shift to what they've done. I like that idea too, to wait into the first preseason game and more now than ever because of this ramp up period, uh, as much as this first week and the second week is going to be about, okay, who's that, who shows up, who looks good.

You're not going to be in pads yet. It actually is kind of an extension of the off season program in a lot of ways. So it does take some time here to actually get a feel for where these guys are going to be at. That being said, I look at last year with the defense and it was such a weird situation where, I mean, all of us had these astronomical expectations for them, especially with the success they had against Green Bay's offense in these practices and the New York, New Orleans saints too. I mean, Green Bay dominated those practices against the saints and certainly New Orleans didn't end up being a, you know, they weren't exactly a power last year, but it got off to such a slow start defensively that this year, I think it's going to be more about building momentum, certainly staying healthier, but then seeing which young guys step up Bart, because Dean Lowery and Jaron Reed are gone and I'm not trying to, you know, act like this is the sixties Lombardi defensive line and there's these huge questions, but those two guys ate up for 1400 snaps last year.

Who's taken those on? And I think it's a good sign, at least from a scouting perspective, that Green Bay must feel really good about Devante Wyatt and TJ Slayton and what those guys could potentially do next to Kenny Clark. Because beyond that, you have two rookies that are going to be working into that rotation. And safety is probably the position where it's the biggest steepest odds in terms of what it could be in terms of being a starter in this defense to potentially not making a 53. When you look at the veterans that Green Bay has assembled and okay, who's going to start, who's the best compliment to Darnell Savage. And then on the other end of it, if you don't end up being that starter, who's going to be the guy that ultimately gets those snaps with special teams that could step up Ruby Ford, Tarverius Moore, Jonathan Owens.

I mean, talk about a guy that's going to have a chip on his shoulder. Jonathan started 17 games last year, played 920 snaps, and then kind of had to wait a minute to even get a contract and an opportunity to keep this thing going. Down Levitt's back, Innis Gaines has been a guy that I've liked the last couple of years, who I think has really progressed, has great size for the safety position. So as much as it's going to be about Lucas Fenes and Rashawn Gary and those cornerbacks and all these other guys, it's how do you fill out the rest of that 11?

Because as Mark Murphy was talking about this week too, especially early on, the Packers are going to be leaning on that defense and they need that unit to start fast this year. I missed the owner's meeting. I am an owner. Yeah. I had to miss the meeting. We missed you. Thank you. So if you, as an employee could pass, there was one suggestion I wanted to make. Yep.

I got the suggestion box here somewhere. Yeah. I sat in the club level for the game against the lions that they lost last year. Oh, good. Nice. And I never sat up there before.

So your own one is like a high roller. I wish just to pass this along. They play the radio feed and I love Wayne and Larry as much as the next guy, but they play the radio feed at like a hundred decibel. And I want to hear the sound of the crowd. Yeah.

So just pass that along too. Is this like, was that one of the end zone ones where it's like all the people that are in the seats together or were you like, how did that work? What kind of arrangement did you have?

It was almost like a movie theater. Yeah. Okay.

Those seats. Okay. Yeah. And then we sat kind of in the bottom.

Yeah. I'll have to run that one. And there's the glass and I can't like, I didn't, obviously the answer is sit outside then you wuss, but I was gifted tickets. So I've never been able to sit in the suites other than the year that I was quarantined in them, but yeah, that was fun. It's so loud.

I want to hear the fans, even a mixture. So you know what is funny about that? So in 2020, call the person right now and make this change. I don't even know who I would call to be honest with somebody facilities, but 2020 I was in the testing group for the Packers. So I had to get tested every day for COVID, but because of that, we were isolated from gen pop, as I called it, the actual other media that were up in the press box, we had to go in the fifth floor or no, I'm sorry, sixth floor right underneath the press box. And the funny thing about it, dude, now those were the real suites, right? Like the ones that I think the businesses are buying. And those are the ones that they did the renovations on where it was like $55 million. They, they made all the glass so you could open up the glass in the suites.

Right. And I'll never forget the first game I covered having the windows close and there was no one in the stadium. So it wasn't like we were trying to get it, but having the windows closed, as opposed to actually being able to open it up and just hear the plays happening and guys talking down there. It makes a difference.

It really does. So I, I sympathize with those folks that are in those like actual, I know what you're talking about. Like those theater ones, I think more towards the end zones that where it's like, yeah, you're those windows aren't opening up.

So yeah, I'll, I'll keep that under advisement. It'd be like, Hey, as much as we love Wayne and Larry, and we all do, we need more like crowd noise. Even if you just turn them down, it was very loud. It was, it really like ruined my day. Did you go home that night? And there was like two in the morning, waking up with hearing Wayne's voice, like shutting through your like Arabellum. And it was like, and the Packers lost to the lions. That's the part that probably really imagine what the lions are running trick plays now to rub it in. Oh man, that one hurt that you know, that the end of the season was a lot. Like I always said, it was like the 15 season in Arizona. I was in Arizona for that game when, uh, you know, they made the Janice had the big catches and then Larry Fitzgerald had the 75 yard touchdown at the end. That one always bothered me because the narrative, those are the things that get me the most Packers win or lose, whatever I got a job to do.

I got to get the story out, but it's when the narrative doesn't fit your story. And those are the two games where I felt like that happened Arizona because of all the heroics that happened and they still ended up losing the thing and they lost in devastating fashion and overtime. And then last year where the Packers get on this late season run, it feels like run the table again. And then you get to that game against Detroit, you get it winter, go home.

You're at Lambeau field and all the air comes out of the balloon. So yeah, there's, there's definitely from that regard. Um, yeah, that's going to be a tough one. I think it's funny too. I always write down, I always Sharpie in the Packers results after every game. I have this little schedule thing. I still have not put in the final score from that lion's game.

I don't know if I ever will. Wow. That's deep.

That's meta. Jordan loves to play that game. Rogers should have gone. It's like 2007 where it was like McCarthy should have just put Rogers in. They would have beaten the giants, but you know, yeah. Rogers should have played in the cold games.

Yeah. And just like last year, love should have played in the cold games. I don't know why no coach will do that. It's tough though.

Right? Because like, I've always thought about that, but football is as much about, you know, personality and managing people as it is, you know, the X's and O's. And I don't know, it would take a lot of, a lot of brass, a lot of, a lot of guts to make a decision like that, because certainly you were kind of hanging your guy out there a little bit too, but that's, what's exciting about this year, Bart. That's what I'm excited about for the Packers is that I've never covered a first year starting quarterback. You know, Aaron Rogers was already a Superbowl champion and a one-time MVP when I started covering the team in 12 full time. So to see a young guy go through the peaks and valleys, the ups and downs and seeing who rallies around that and even fill in the locker room, like even the off season program, I felt like things were a lot looser, not necessarily just a reflection of Rogers, but I mean, just the reflection of having a 24 year old quarterback that, you know, he's, he's been playing, you know, throwing Nicolet water bottles into recycled containers with AJ Dillon for the last three years. I mean, these guys know what the guy's all about and he could have made the situation a lot tougher, you know, for as much drama as there was the last couple of years and how tense things got.

You never heard Jordan Love making any of those things more difficult. The guy was a pro. He stuck to his business and now he's finally getting a shot to show what he can do. Well, you got the Nicolet water plug in there. So I did. Hey man, great water. Lucas Patrick once told me, he's like, that's the best water in America. I also got Lucas Patrick's endorsement.

It's got Lucas Patrick's endorsement. He was trying to get a sponsorship, man, but unfortunately I don't have any, I don't have any with me here though, but the official walk here of the Green Bay Packers. Wes, thanks so much. Good to talk to you. Yeah, absolutely buddy. I appreciate you having me on.

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