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made with freeze-dried dragon fruit. and made to lock in. The all-new energizer now at McDonald's. Good morning, everybody. Welcome into the Winkler Verse.
I'm Bart Winkler. It is Wednesday, August 26th. Happy birthday, Brock. One of my three bros. I have Jordan Treskey.
Tim, too long of a pause, edit and post. Jordan Treskey is going to be on the podcast today. Longtime podcaster from Winning Six and All these different things he's done. He's written a book. In the process of writing another Bucks book, but he wrote one about the early years of Bucks basketball, sort of compare and contrast with the 21 championship to the 71 championship.
So that'll be the bulk of today's episode. Talk to him earlier in the week and have that for you here today. But I did want to put a little. Intro into it to talk some brewers and a few other things here on this fine Wednesday. Mitvalk.
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So check out Dan Shaney. insurance Brewers game on Tuesday night. They lose to the Mets 3-2. And Baseball is a long season, 162 games. And I think of the years that I covered the Brewers more intently.
where you watch a game. And then kind of plan a four-hour show. Around one game, especially in the summer here before footballs. really gotten going. We're still dissecting these games, watching these games, and Pat Murphy.
Anytime you can. Leave. A baseball game, and you know you have a talking point the next day. Um For your radio show, what a massive dub. That is.
So Pat Murphy took out Cooper Pratt. For lack of hustle. For other mistakes, I'll get into, I think. Murphy kind of retconned a little bit what Cooper Pratt actually was up to. Um I think that I think that I lost my train of thought because.
I was thinking, oh, I want to tweet that. Should I pause it here?
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So Pat Murphy says I took out Cooper Pratt and he took him out after his second AB. He took him out after his second AB. at bat, um, which was in the fifth inning.
So you took him out there. This was a tight game. Again, Brewers lose 3-2. But David Hamilton was up. He was the replacement.
He actually took. Pratt got on base and Murphy pinch ran for him in the fifth inning. Because he had to talk to him or he talked to him after the game and like. Joey Ortiz and Jake Bowers and Sal Freelick were like consoling or supporting him. Murphy didn't like the way that.
That Cooper Pratt was playing.
So he took him out of the game. And this is great because we can talk about that specific instance if it led to a loss, as Hamilton then was up and. I mean, Lindor made an improbable catch. But what if Cooper Pratt was at the plate? And then also in the bottom of the 10th.
Hamilton threw home. Completely missed Contreras for a play at the plate. Not that Pratt would have got it there, but Hamilton didn't even give him a shot.
So Pratt coming out of the game. And you can't like, it's very hard, you know, does one thing. Everything else would have happened. I was thinking about this today. Um I was like laying in my bed at 745 for a little bit.
And I thought, because I mowed the lawn, but then I didn't totally weed whack or trim. And I thought, how different would my night be? If I did trim. That would put me off 10 minutes. Everything would change.
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But what I'm saying is. You can't say because something happened in the fifth inning. It totally affected something in the ninth inning because there's a hundred different things that could have gone a hundred different ways in between there.
However, when you do take out player A and put in player B, and then everything that happens to player B is bad. You can say well Because the game would have been different. If Pratt was in different defensive plays, different anything, any number of things. He could have told a joke. He could have got off the field late and talked to a third base coach, and that could have been whatever, whatever.
But Pratt was taken out, and Hamilton was put in, and then Hamilton was at the middle of those two things.
So after the game, you can say. Pat Murphy, you lost this one.
Now, Pat is going to get... Excuse from a lot of the blame because some of his big studs are hitting terribly lately. An Ofer for Jackson Churio tonight. Um Contreras hot, but he gets hot, and then Churio. Does not.
Terang also old for five.
So you had some guys that. We weren't getting on base. Um But What can you do? It's a loss. It's to the Mets.
So, because the Brewers lost, I do have to check on the Cubs, and I will do that here. Later. I only scoreboard watch when the Brewers actually lose. I guess I got to check Dodgers 2, Dodgers Braves. Because that series is going on and Everyone's like NLCS preview.
Don't be mad, they're not mentioning the brewers. You can only have two, you know, whatever. They just said it about us and the Dodgers. Braves won last night 4-3.
So Murphy then after the game. has the press conference to explain what he did. And because he took him out in the fifth inning, we all assume, well, he dogged it.
So, what happened in the fifth inning was. Pratt had essentially a pop-up just behind first base. But the outfielders and infielders got confused. It dropped. Pratt wasn't running all the way or as hard as he could.
And then he was at first, and Murphy thinks he could have got to second. In reviewing the angles that we got, I think it would have been close. I don't think seconds assume there. I think it was more Pat Murphy. had the idea Of sending someone a message relatively soon to maybe get the other guys.
thinking. Like when you've got Cooper Pratt.
Okay, and you've got Christian Yelich and Jackson Churio and Wilson Contreras.
Sometimes to get a message to Churio, Yelich, Contreras, you have to give it to Cooper Pratt. That is the way that leadership and seniority and feelings and all of that stuff ends up factoring into. A lot of different outlets in life. but maybe you're not happy. with the way your overall team is playing.
or approaching at bats. or the hustle And you can't scold your top guys.
So you think I'm going to be very critical and really pick on one of the younger guys. I'll call him out for something, and then the other players can say. Oh, I'm also doing that too. Because I think Pat Murphy. It's a very quick trigger.
I don't think you have that quick of a trigger unless it's intentional, unless. There was some Thought put into it, some planning to it. I don't think Murphy saw that and said, God damn it, get out of the game. I think he. Decided in this series.
He's going to pull someone. And It's going to be one of the young guys.
So he's really going to look at them to see who to make the example of. And Pratt gave him an opportunity tonight. Even though I don't think he would have got to second, Murphy has enough wiggle room to have the opportunity to send his message. That's how I think it went down. You also like.
The Murphy interview he did, he also went back to the first at bat. And said, so he bunted. And Missed, and then strike two was down the middle, and he was mad, Murphy, that Pratt didn't lay down for the bunt. Which I think Is a retcon.
So Murphy. Knew he was going to get criticized. for taking Pratt out and putting Hamilton in. or at least get questioned about it. And then.
Murphy could then say it wasn't just that. There was another thing.
So then Murphy had to go look back at that first at-bat and see what I can pick on here. And he thinks, okay, maybe he could have, you know, as a strike, he could have laid down the bunt again. I don't think you're getting benched for not laying down a bunt or showing bunt on a strike two. And I don't think that that's enough to lead to the second thing. I think this was pre-planned by Murph.
whether he admits it or not. That's just with coaching experience, that's what I think may have happened here. in this Brewers game. But the Brewers got the Mets again tonight, and then on Thursday, and the Packers on Friday night.
So we'll have. coverage. all week long. We've got Jordan Treskey coming out. This is Into the Winklerverse, not on 12:50 a.m., the fan.
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Protein for all. Good morning, everybody. Welcome into the Winklerverse. I'm Bart Winkler, Jordan Treskey's joining us, longtime Bucks podcaster. Who has turned Bucks author, which is always a very tough endeavor.
I'm always fascinated by people that. Have the idea. to write a book. And then actually write that book. Because I think in any you know i've had periods including now of unemployment and sometimes you think I could write a book.
But the the process from I want to write a book. To now, I have a published book, and I need to see if anyone wants to read it. Um I there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that happens. From point A to point B.
So, what Jordan did, Jordan wrote a book about the beginning of the Bucs franchise and their history in Milwaukee and the initial success that they had. It's called Building the Milwaukee Bucks. Full title, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Oscar Robinson, and the rapid rise of an NBA franchise, 68 to 75. Kareem, the big O, Robertson, and then many others highlighted in this book.
So it came out last summer. He's been on the Evergreen, forever book tour. Um doing events when they when they pop up, but just Jordan, on the process of point A to point B. Like, how taxing is it? And if somebody is like, I want to write a book.
What's like the one thing that you wish you knew before you got into that process.
Well, I'm here to tell everybody that if I can write a book, so can you. There we go. There we go. I mean, there's two things that started. really it was winning in twenty one and At that time.
To insert myself into it. I was finishing up. My time at Behind the Buck Pass the fansighted buck sight. And I really, I mean, it was great, but it's also like overflowing with work. And you know The Crappy thing about it is that, like, when the Bucks are going on this historic run, like.
Yeah, we may never see this again, at least in my lifetime. You're getting swamped out by like the bigger outlets because they're hitting. They're going the finals, they're winning the championship.
So That stuff is gonna take precedent. And I was kind of like, that really, it always kind of like. It didn't sour my time with it, obviously, because they won a title, and I never thought they would win a title when I was writing about them. But it was just like, oh man, like that kind of stunk. You know, and then.
I think part of originally we were my Friend Adam McGee, who w when we were doing We in the Six, we were Yeah. I could go on with a very long answer, but with COVID, it was just like we had nothing else but to look back. And we were really looking at it as an audio documentary originally. And so I went. hog wild with research at the public library and And finding old books and Kinda wanting to capture like Just the whole era.
and what it felt like when Walkie won in seventy one and Obviously, you tell the story of why the Bucks came into the NBA in the first place, the people that brought them there, Kareem coming to Milwaukee. There's just there were so many different things that, like, eventually I probably took it farther than I imagined initially. And then Probably selfishly, it's like I don't know.
Now that I'm like kind of a little bit out of it, you're just like, maybe I want something more permanent because it's like. A lot of the things that I would write about at Behind the Past, I'm again, I'm very grateful for it because it. Got people to be interested in my stuff. We all It's all it is. A lot of it is fleeting.
It's like writing about trade rumors, and 90% of the time it's like this stuff, this stuff doesn't happen. And I think for me, be on the other side of it, it's like. I think you can, there's always a balance. You can kind of go in the history of it, but you can kind of lose yourself into like, remember this thing? I definitely do this all the time, but remember this, this happened, this happened.
And I think Trying to write about things that actually happen versus like endlessly theorizing. I think that's kind of just the sports economy now, especially online, that like I feel like it's gone too much that way, that like I kind of felt like this personal mission to be like let's tell a story that I feel like a lot of people know the broader points of it. But de diving deeper into kind of like these little data points or things that Eventually told the story of the Bucks beginning that I think Probably got lost in the shuffle in some ways, you know? Yeah, and I think I wonder because the book's fascinating, and I'll have some questions about that. you know, bucks in general here as we talk for a little bit, but I think, like, when I'm cranking out these pods, or when you're cranking out these pods, or writing.
there is a finite amount of time that it lives for.
So if I do a Packer Post-game on a Friday night, as I did last week for a preseason game. Like it'll live for the weekend. Yeah, but nobody is going back. Like the video I did, the podcast I did, I won't get numbers on that. Yeah.
For because who cares? In the moment, you care. Yes. But later on, you won't care. It's interesting sometimes watching the podcast that, because I do a lot of, it's just reaction podcasts.
I'd like to get into more of. storytelling so that there's things that are evergreen. But even then, what I'm wondering is. The way that we are now in society, it's very quick, very microwave.
So I can put no effort. Really, none into a 45-minute Packer post-game podcast. And it will die. But if you're going to spend multiple months, weeks, years writing a book, Which is ever like you can go and learn about the Bucs history and how it started, however, you want. Have you found like the book got released?
Big push. I'm everywhere. And then like two weeks later. What like You have a thing that people can have anytime. but you almost have to promote it like it's new.
All the time. And that's why these book fairs and anything, because you probably, when on Tuesday, you'll be in front of someone for the first time. They'll have no idea. It's just like a constant, it's here.
Now it's your job to have people find it. That's. It's just an interesting thing. There's similarities, but they're not. It's weird.
Yeah, it's like an uncanny valley kind of thing of like. It's like I don't know. I I mean, I guess this is like. the what is the meme of like you rather Men would rather go back and go through basketball reference or pro football reference to remember some guys than go to therapy kind of thing. But that I think that probably fits to what I've been doing for a while here of like trying.
I don't know, it is just like it is fascinating how. Kind of I've probably spent equal time be having like one foot in like that's how I started writing and started podcasting and doing all that stuff. And now kind of taking a step back and trying to focus on writing. And it is really interesting how like Even this stuff was kind of happening back then, but now everything's very bifurcated or like. Endlessly growing, where you know.
It and I to be fair to what you said, like I think you do a good job of finding those evergreen, of finding the storytelling, especially like around World Cup time. I mean, there was stuff that I was learning about that you were talking about that. I find it fascinating. But yeah, you're welcome. But yeah, it's I know, it's really interesting.
I think too it's like in the grand Kind of over the last year of talking about this stuff, it's like Packer's history is just so. Maybe it tells the story of Green Bay. Brewers like Until this era, I mean, you have like the touch points of 82 and then. year 2011 But there's something about baseball because it's America's pastime. And then when it's with the Bucs, it's like.
It usually revolves around Kareem, Yannis, so you have the ten poles of 71 and 21. And then there's just a lot of like. Like Del Don Nelson died two weeks ago. And there is some great stuff, and I'm not. Mm-hmm.
disparaging people and how they talk about People that pass, but it was like He's the guy like he he won the most games of Bucks history. That record's never going to get touched based on how coaches just come and go now in the NBA. Yeah. And it is just like, that is.
Something I'm personally trying to do with another book of like, it's just kind of, it's not that there's a gap, but it's not. To the degree of what I even found, like reading Brewer's books, Milwaukee Brave stuff. Greenman Packer stuff over the years that like That's what kind of kept me going and kind of gave me my North Star to kind of like. This is how I can write a Bucks book. But with the Bucks, it's like you got 71 and 21.
And then there's like Some cream Oscar Wayne Embry books that I could find, but. Yeah, that's kind of a. I'm kind of going all over the place, but like it is just telling the history of the Bucks is fascinating to me because they've been around so long. And I think. the same things kind of get told over and over again that like We know, and there's just a chasm.
Compared to it's weird because I'm thinking about doing the radio show with Chuck. And You know, he's maybe a decade older than me, but he's lived through.
Okay. Um, a lot more of the stuff.
So, like, he's got a good reference point. But when I'm thinking of the conversations we would have. over the however many years of the show. Packers history came up at any time, like we know it's secondhand. Whether you want to talk about the 60s Packers.
Or even like before that, enough people know enough things. Of course, oh, you don't want to be like the 70s and 80s, right? They're brewers. The Brewers are interesting because obviously there's still so much connected to 82. Yeah.
And then they've kind of like. become One of the better franchises, no World Series yet, but over the last 10 years, Bucks are weird because.
So, I'm going to think of myself first as born in 84. I didn't watch a lot of Bucks basketball when I was like seven, eight or nine. When I was watching a lot of baseball, I was watching a lot of WGN, a lot of TBS, a lot of Brewers. Um you know, playing little league, whatever.
So Even as a kid, for whatever, and I grew up an hour north of Milwaukee, so that's maybe some of it. That tells it too. But then, like. Even people with the Brewers, we got so many calls still. about the Milwaukee Braves.
Yeah. And meanwhile, the bugs have this history. Where they won a title. In 1971, And to most Bucs fans. That never happened.
And for a couple of reasons. One, we're not old enough. And there aren't, I don't feel like. Where there would be elders telling you, guys. Cherish the Packers.
They sucked for 35 years. Where there's people telling you, you think this is fun with Brewers fans? You should have seen 82. There was no one telling us that about. The early 70s and the early part of this franchise, even though they won.
And even if you're going to cover that book, as you did, and again, more questions to come. But then the 1980s. Mm-hmm. They made the playoffs every single year. They made the conference finals, I think, three times.
Three in. Yeah, over the course of the 80s, before Don, or before Nelson said, Don, like I know him, Nelson left. Obviously, if you grew up a certain way, or you're old enough, or you lived, you know. In the apartments across from the Bradley Center, I don't know. But there's a lot of people that like Their first bucks.
Was Big Dog and Ray and Sam right here. And then you find out about the seventies a little bit. But you don't really know about the 80s. And then, of course, you have Giannis and whatever's going on, but. It's the 80s, but it's also your section, too, because there's just a lot, I think, that.
There's just a lot. It's like the Bucs didn't start until we all decided they started, but they started 25 years prior to that, and they won a title as you covered. Yeah, it's really. I mean, I could talk to you about this for probably an hour of like, I thought about it way too much of like how. Buck's history itself is Presented.
And also like I don't know. Did everyone that saw them win in 71 just like die in 75? Or was that just too? Like, where are these? I've never had anyone tell me.
Well, you think this Bucs team is good? You should have seen Korean. Like, I know it was a long time ago, but still, I've never. My first introduction to Kareem was an airplane. I mean, that's gotta be for a lot of people.
But then I was like, oh, the guy from the Lakers. And then someone's like, no, he used to be Lou L. Cinder and he played for the Bucs. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And then they're like, he won a championship.
I'm like, the reason why they became a franchise, not to you know, spoiler. But it, you know, obviously it's it happened. But yeah, it is just interesting of like. I think it's an one of a, it's a, it's, you could call it a bucks problem. You call it an NBA problem just because I think Rings culture just revolves around if you win, therefore it's meaningful.
Because anything about like specific players over the course of Black's history when we talk about like remembering them It's about should this guy's jersey be retired? Yeah, I mean And I don't know if that's part of the effect of Kareem being so significant to the Bucs. you know, origins and then leaving. That's I don't know if it's I don't know who's who's to say, but like there's that part of it. I think the bucks, it's I mean They Mm-hmm.
They were so good, so fast. And Even when they Kareem leaves, they kind of dipped, but then they come back up in the late 70s. They make their run through the 80s. Did win the big one. But you could still look at that as a successful franchise.
I mean, the reason why Herb Cole buying the team was it was a team worth saving on top of a lot of other emotional and Financial reasons for it too, but It's just I don't know. Again, I read a lot of basketball history books that kind of helped me. Give me the gumption to write this kind of s book. And It's just not a sport that has, it's always kind of forward thinking. It's always about like technology.
It's like, It kind of goes through the ways of like. The whole reason why David Stern and the NBA kind of saved themselves in the 80s is that they looked at cable television to kind of. A new revenue stream that they didn't, you know, it was the sport that they needed it more than. I feel like it's like what MLS try to do with Apple and that just Exploded in their face. Yeah.
Not great. No, not great at all. But Basketball for a reason, we just think of it. Pretty much like a business, and I think you know. Current day, it certainly feels that way.
I'm just like, it's these guys that get paid a lot of money. That everybody's like, this guy's overpaid, this guy's overpaid.
Meanwhile, these franchise evaluations are going. Crazy. And in Milwaukee, it's like we had the original ownership. Jim Fitzgerald takes over. Herb Cole buys the team, has it for 30 years, and now we're kind of like.
Meeting what sports is today that I don't know. Again, I could talk to you about this for like so long that I'm trying to formulate my thoughts in a very concise manner. Let's talk the rest of the night and I'll do a five-part series all week and not do any other work. It's Jordan week on the Winklerverse. If you're like me, you're the kid who savored every last drop of sugary milk at the bottom of your cereal bowl while watching Saturday morning cartoons.
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Kareem. Yannis.
So both kind of carried by a superstar. Did you see like other similarities? Because it's a lot different. When they first won, that was what, their third year? Third year.
And then when the Bucs went in 21, it was. After a lot of people just never thought they would actually see it. And then even getting Giannis, it took another. Eight, nine years. to have that to fruition.
Like After that Raptor series in 2019, I just thought, okay, I've never. going to happen no matter what. Would it did you what similarities Between the errors, what differences? Did you pick up on with not living through one and then living through another?
So the Part of this is one of the things that I I definitely went Like full tilt on was like, I really wanted to not just, I feel like the story of Kareem and Milwaukee kind of just goes to like. He comes, they win in 71, and then he leaves. And I kind of wanted to get in between 71 and 75 because there's a lot of stuff there. For him personally. More so than just with the bucks.
But I mean, a lot of things are different, but the story is the same, like, You know, when you win. You're not going to have high draft picks. And When, you know, whether it's the Bucs trading so many draft picks over the years that they mortgage their future. Or When the Bucs had Kareem, it's like the ABA is going on, and they draft guys that would get. Poached by ABA teams.
because they didn't have as much money to give them. That other ABDA teams that eventually folded, but they were. This is how you get guys to play. with a rival lea league going on at the same time.
So there was that component. There was also just like kind of like I've tried to think the one big thing is like they went after Dr. J, Julius Irving. That's kind of obviously the biggest what if, and that didn't pan out to say the least. And They had You know, they go almost they go to the finals in 74.
They lose in game seven in Milwaukee.
So th they actually had like Giannis That era, they didn't We can look at 22. Yeah, they won. Not another series, right? We haven't won a series since then, have we? One maybe?
Did we beat the Pistons? We haven't won anything. We haven't won a series since the Bulls in twenty two.
Okay, that was a series, though. Yeah. Great. Good for us. Yeah, good for us.
But yeah, it's just kind of like. The team gets really older, but that's what you need to win a title. And then Draft picks don't pan out. You're kind of I mean, back then, it was, they didn't have a salary cap. It's all free market.
It's like what you're able to pay. And ABA teams are poaching the draft picks. They try to go after Dr. J, some of their kind of bigger. Plays, I'm trying to remember.
You know, there was rumors that they're going to move on from Bob Dandrich multiple times over the years that they didn't until they eventually did, but. It's kind of like I know that's where it's like a lot of things have changed over the years, but The ultimate core of things is like these teams get. Once they Get a bite of the apple. They need competitive guys that meet the moment of winning a title. And that's that moment.
Passes so much. I feel like even because There's a lot of great sports illustrated stuff. I mean, the Milwaukee Journal and Milwaukee Sentinel when they're two separate things. They're talking about the Bucks as a dynasty at the start of the seventies and I'm like We still do the same damn thing with NBA teams now, like the Thunder last year or. San Antonio's probably getting it.
I mean, the Knicks won, but I wouldn't necessarily call them. Yeah, everyone's like, okay, the Knicks got, they're treating the Knicks like they treated us in 21. And they were right about us in 21.
So, yeah.
So it's like. Or feel like it's Generally, if you have a four-year window of like When you look back at it, and if you Make a couple finals if you win a title. to me is a successful Period. But There's always just like that, it's going to happen again. It's going to happen again.
It's like it's a long season. These guys play so much. Yeah. And I don't know. The game is so different, but.
The ultimate principles stay the same, you know. Who would be um When you go back and you research this book, again, Building the Milwaukee Bucks. Available wherever you get your books. Who's somebody that deserves a lot of credit. For what happened at the beginning of this franchise.
that hasn't become a household name or like. You'd just be surprised, like, oh, wow, if it wasn't for him. This wouldn't have happened. Is this an on court or off court? question because i could give you give me the answer for both Encore I do think it's just Kareem.
Kareem. Who's the one that's not a household name? You're saying Kareem.
Well, it's not that he's not a household name, but I do think. it gets lost of like When you read about it after the fact and how Do you read about it like What is the point that I'm trying to make here? And I'm like... I don't know my words. I know.
Ha ha. Mm. When you read about Kareem, as they were talking about in the moment, and it's like he's this.
Next big thing, yo. Really, it's like he's a teen. He's the equivalent of like a guy. Breaking out on YouTube, and the whole country knows who he is. You know what I mean?
And he was like. Fifteen. And part of that is because he's so tall and he's so dominant and LeBron. Yeah. to one another than they are far apart.
Like as LeBron keeps going, it's like Yeah. You know, obviously, the MJ comparisons are what they are, but he is the modern-day Kareem for a lot of reasons. But and the greatest to ever play the game I would agree.
Okay, good. Ha ha ha ha ha. But I just think, I'm just like reading stuff about the fact that they had an outlaw dunking. And when he was at UCLA. And There are obviously a lot of racial reasons for that too, but It's just like there's, I get it, kind of astounded by all the things that he had to go through as a player.
First and then as a person of just like He's just very fascinating to me and why probably as big a reason why I wanted to write the book to begin with, because I think We kind of Again, broad strokes. It's like we know he leaves. He didn't like it here. Yada yada. But there's like I don't know.
I just don't think this team exists without him. It's just, it's so plainly clear to me. And Off the court, I mean, there's a lot of interesting. people like Wes Pavillon Yeah. He was essentially There's two co-founders.
So there's Marvin Fishman. He's the guy that. Tries to bring a football team here, gets to fill in County Stadium. Packers, Vince Lombardy. Because of their contract with the stadium.
they're they don't want any part of it. Yeah. So there's that part of it. We were going to get an AFL team, weren't we? They were going to get, yeah, he was trying to bring an AFL team.
The Packers are you know they're at the height of their Dynasty in the sixties. And so there's a lot of political power that way: of like, you have Milwaukee and you have Green Bay when those two things were. you know, an equal Kind of measure.
So he's kind of bringing this over the line to use a football analogy. And then Wes Pavlon comes in. He's kind of like the money guy. He's like. It's so modern day of like Of these kind of big money guys that make their, it's not, he's not a tech guy or anything like this, but he.
Bill's just kind of. Vocational school called Career Academy makes a lot of money. gets into sports ownership. With the Bucks. He was even looked at.
I didn't put this in the book for some dumb reason, but. He was talked about.
Now you get now if there's just take three new things. Put him in the book and say it's a re-release, like Avengers Endgame. Exactly. Hey, it's four more new minutes. Come to the theater.
But like he Was thought of as like Gideon as an investor with the Eagles in the late 60s. The Montreal Expos, when they come in the league, they kind of meet into money troubles initially. And they were looking at him. There was some speculation that maybe he moved the team to Milwaukee because they were still trying to get a baseball team back here.
So there's he's just this endlessly fascinating figure that like You know, there's a whole Sports Illustrated story about him. There's a story in Esquire. They devoted, he is like that level of fame and. and money kind of power and all that stuff that It just reads like a Huck Finn. Like the story of this tall tale of these things of how he made his fortune, they're just fascinating to me.
Um And Wayne Emry too, like his book is one of the best basketball books I've read and He plays the first year, the expansion year. He's a captain. And then Retires, comes back. He's the reason why Oscar comes to Milwaukee. Like, he kind of facilitated that.
Bridge the gap between player and ownership at the time, and then actually becomes the first black general manager in all sports.
So There's just a lot of things that I I mean, off the court it fascinated as much as on the court that I I wanted to kind of give equal shine. Let me fast forward to to end here on the present. Because the Bucs will not be winning a title in 27. No, we don't need to add that to the to the thing. I don't So the last few years have been rough.
The injuries, obviously, the Bucs are interesting because. They didn't need to change anything. They could have just said injuries. And used it as an excuse every year. But they didn't.
Um And then they made a lot of horrible moves. I would say no matter how bad they were in the 90s or 2000s, whatever. I think the two years with Doc were the worst in franchise history, just for what you were wasting and why you were doing it. I think I share the sentiment of a lot of Bucks fans is. I'm going to say the day Giannis got traded is the best day in this franchise's history since they won.
Because It was over. They're not winning. They're not winning with Giannis. I don't think they're winning. My whole thing was: I'd rather keep him because we're not winning with him, but we're not winning without him.
So just have him here. I think it's interesting that Giannis hasn't even played. Anyway Competitive. thing with the heat at all. And he's already talking about coming back.
Because it's very easy to regret a decision that you didn't want to make in the first place, but you feel like you're supposed to make it. There's a little Devontae Adams there where Rogers was getting traded, and then Adams was like, I guess I need to be traded. I think Giannis just feels like this is something that he needs to go through. Whatever. But they're probably going to win.
So the over-under is 24 and a half. They're winning more than that. Is it? It's that low? It's low, dude.
They won 30 games. Was it 32? They'll win 30 this year. Yeah. But from a nightly, night in, night out standpoint, I mean.
Big picture. We still kind of had a shot at winning with Giannis. We have no shot right now. Yeah. But small picture, I'm excited to watch every game.
I'm going to podcast after a lot of games because I think there's going to be interest. Like, it's just, and it's an interesting time to be a Bucks fan again. Because this feels almost more familiar in a way. Then like We did that. We did it.
We did it. We had our rum springer. We figured out what it was like to win a title. We figured out what it was like to have a superstar.
Now we're back to being Bucks fans. Which is we're never going to win, but we're going to have a hell of a fun time doing it. And I'm just excited for the unknown at this point. That's how I come into the 26, 27 season. I would agree.
I mean, last year. By the end of it, there were nights where like I knew that they were playing. I'm like, uh. I can't do it. Yeah.
The most ardent and die-hard of fans. You couldn't watch it at the end. No. No, and I I do think part of it's like There's so many flashpoints of the last five years that you can look at, like, if this went this way or if this went that way, but like. I think the biggest thing is he made the move for Dame.
After getting rid of bud And going after Griffin, and it's like When you The reason why an NBA team gets rid of a coach is that the players are tuning him out. The reason why you make a trade to upgrade your roster is that you think you're on the cusp or you're on the way of getting there. And you think you need someone else to kind of put them over. I mean, that what we do with Drew. And when you make those the same decisions in the span of Three months, four.
It's like, what do you like? That's where a lot of the messiness over. of what happened after the fact of Of Dame just not feeling right here for obvious reasons. The Griffin experiment going Up in smoke and then getting dark. It's just like it was just so.
It was just not fun. And I think, too, it's like they were still a decent. Good team. in the as they were going into the playoffs in twenty five. And then Dame got hurt.
And then it was like, remember that first half where he scored like 30 points and then he scored the rest of the game. And then Chris, the year before, like. This is why you brought me here, he said. And I'm like Mm. And the second half almost gave it away and he had like one bucket.
Yeah. I know They're gonna take their lumps. But it's like It's like you said, it's familiar. It's low stakes. I mean, The the thing too is like I My whole Bucks fandom is real, like this kind of act, too.
Cause like I phased out. Yeah. When I was a teenager, 'cause they were just horrible. And then it was really like around the time of Beanis. It was actually the year before when the last year of like.
Jennings and Manta and that. the lat skyles year. Um But It was so tied to being online and Kind of finding a Bucks ki the Bucks community through that, through Twitter at the time. And And I think that's it was really interesting to kind of go through that perspective.
So when they eventually won, it felt like. Vindication for all these nights are just like, this is awful, this is horrible. You know, like, yada, yada, yada, where you're just like going through all the motions. And then The afterglow of the last couple of years. Kind of soften like when they actually lost.
They're like, well, they did it, they did it. And then last year happened where I'm just like, oh, it's over. Like. There's just no way you can come back from it. And then everything that came out after the fact of like, Yeah.
It doesn't make it any easier, but it is just like, it just shows just how much of just like. they were in neutral for a very long time that like they just didn't know what else to do. Building the Milwaukee Bucks.
So if you're a Bucs fan, A, buy the book. Also, B, What we start doing in the Winkler house is we're Christmas shopping all year long now. There's the book. For real.
So we have like a gift closet.
So Because at Christmas, there's going to be people that I'm like, I don't know what to get them. I'll be like, oh, they love the books. I'll give them this book that I had bought back in August. See?
So start that.
So for whatever the reason is. I didn't have Jordan on just to say hi. We need to move some copies. I appreciate it. Building the Milwaukee Bucks.
Move some copies, Winklerverse, okay? I always tell people the Winklerverse bump is one, possibly two units moved. That's I'll take it. I'll take it. The freezing cold takes guy said the same thing.
I'm like, I might sell you one book. He's like, it's better than not coming on here. Thank you, freezing cold takes guy. Mr. Cold Takes.
Mr. Cold Takes, sir. Building the Milwaukee Bucks.
Check it out, Jordan. Always good to chat. We'll do it again. But for now, thanks for stopping into the Winklerverse. Thanks for having me.
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