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Visit DisneyPlusHuluMaxbundle.com for details. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome into the Winklerverse. Today we welcome in Longtime Milwaukee Wave player. Indoor Soccer Hall of Famer, do I have that correct?
Michael King. I think that's on my resume. It's just too many Hall of Fames to keep track of.
Well, yeah, there's a couple on that.
Well, good. Michael King again. What were your years at the wave, like 93 to 2000 something? Yeah, 2008, 15. Fifteen years.
With the Milwaukee Wave, now doing stuff with the Milwaukee Kickers, staying involved in the soccer community in Milwaukee, where he played. For so long, we can touch on some of that stuff. We will. I wanted to talk to you specifically right now because of the World Cup. And this is being posted the day before the World Cup starts.
I'm going to try to hit pretty much every establishment over the next six weeks that is showing games. I had a great time doing that four years ago in the winter. But now we get a true Summer World Cup. This World Cup, there's a lot of things going on around it. Um I'm very encouraged by seeing all these foreigners come here and experiencing a waffle house and that kind of stuff.
There's other weird things, and I'm going to get into all that stuff kind of later. Um, in the week, but for you. I think when this World Cup. was first announced. I'm excited for it.
I don't know. Maybe you have to live in a city where it is, and maybe the World Cup has to get going a little bit. It's like if you look one direction. There's World Cup fever, and you can't miss it, but if you look another direction. There's people that don't know that the World Cup is happening.
I think that's kind of a. That's part of just being a country with 330 million people. But where is it from your expectations to what? This was going to be when the USA held a World Cup again last time in 94. Did you think it'd be more than this?
Is it exceeding what you thought it would be? What are you, as you lead into the World Cup, what are your thoughts?
Well Media manipulates a lot of things. Yeah. Until you actually start playing the games or seeing the games. Then I'd like to think that you know, media can't deny certain things.
So, I mean, like you said, you want to go around to all the establishments that are going to show the games and everything.
So I think that that's going to build up The momentum, the excitement, and everything. Obviously, with more countries involved this year than in any previous World Cup.
So there's going to be more of more of the uh the immigrants that we have in this country that founded this country. Are gonna come out of the woodwork, kind of thing.
So, um, yeah, it's it's building, obviously. The soccer landscape has changed drastically from when it was here in 1994. You know, that's a generation ago. Um, so there's going to be a lot of new fans that. you know didn't didn't experience what it Uh in ninety-four, so Um yeah, it's it's it's a momentum thing.
And and you know that that's We've seen it in other activities, other sporting events and activities, you know, that. Once a group gets behind it, then it can take over.
So I'm hoping. You know The good thing is, from a timing standpoint, there's not a lot going on in the US during when.
So you know it's in July. Yeah, you know, besides the 4th of July, there's not too much else going on, and so it's a good time. We haven't yet hit. You know, preseason in the NFL and baseball's in the middle of you know, all-star break or something, but there's you know, it's so it so it does hit at a pretty pretty good time. All the kids are out of school, so I mean, looking for things to do and stuff.
So Um on that standpoint Um yeah, obviously the NBA final is going on, but the way that's going, it could be over in a few days, and same with and same with the uh the NHL Standing Cup outside of that. What we got? The preakness coming up? Is it all the bells? No, I'm not bothered with horse racing.
I don't horse racing means nothing to me. I think based on that, like. The USA is going to be, so I'll talk about them for a second, they're going to be in their group round. And they got to get out of it. But this year's another.
Kind of wrinkle. You have 48 teams, and you used to have 36.
So you have 48 teams. which means the qualifying is going to be different. There's two different there's again, there's two different things here You're going to see probably a lot of blowouts in this first round when you have these big soccer powers against some of these teams that have qualified for the first time.
So there could be like a, ah, this isn't that exciting yet. But then there's so many teams that are going to qualify as a third-place team. That is going to be crazy with like goal differential stuff. And I just don't know what to expect with a lot of this stuff. I'm kind of in the same place that you are.
There's a lot of buildup, but let's just kind of see. What happens?
So, I think it's going to be an interesting journey these first couple of weeks, but for it to really. grab a stranglehold. In the country, and obviously, Canada and Mexico are involved in this too.
So, you know, with those respective teams as well. Yeah. But for the US, They need to get out of their group. And they need to win a game. Which they haven't done since two thousand and two.
Yeah. Yeah, but the the average sports person in this country, they they don't understand how difficult it is to win a World Cup. Oh, yeah. There's only been eight countries, I think, that have won the World Cup.
So, I mean, you know, and in this country, it's either, you know, you either win or you're done. You're out. You're a loser. You know, it's a failure. you know so um the people that have been around it, you know, you're looking at, okay, what's realistic.
Obviously, you definitely want to get out of the group stage, which should be somewhat of a formality for host countries. And then after that, it's a crab shoot, depending on who How teams perform in their group stage games. You know, you look at, usually, you look at these things. momentum You know, you've got to win, I think, is what it's seven games. win it seven or eight and so there's a There's you want to build into it.
I mean, teams in the past have done not very good in their first game. Got a draw in the second game, they won the third game, they got through, and then they built momentum and they've had success. You you want to be playing have good form going into the tournament, but that's still there's still no guarantee that that's gonna that's gonna get you over the line or get you where you need to get to. But I think Yeah, I tell American non-soccer fans, it's kinda like you know, it's kinda like March Madness. you know the first first few round of games are a crabshoot you know and Giant kill, and they could be blowouts, they could be close and exciting.
And then after that, you're probably going to get your Dukes and your, you know, your North Carolina and your Connecticuts. Those sort of teams are going to be there at the end, you know, around the quarterfinal, semi-final, final four.
So I think you're gonna you you may get one dark horse but You know, towards the latter stages, you're going to see pretty much, you know, there's probably a half a dozen countries that realistically can win this. I just felt like um You know, back in 2002 when they had a run and they beat Mexico and. Lost to Germany. I thought if you'd tell me, I just, you know, I'm not someone that thinks, oh, the USA was going to win a World Cup one day in my lifetime. But I thought that It just doesn't feel like it's grow.
It doesn't feel like the national team. Has improved. And I know there's different coaches, different players. It's a new generation, but it still feels the same to me. It still feels like.
U.S. men's national team soccer is. They're going to defend. They're going to try to counterattack. I'm sketch about the goalkeeping right now, but it just doesn't seem like.
In 25 years. I don't feel like there's been a tangible Improvement. In the national team, and I don't know if that's just the wrong guys at the wrong time, I don't know if it's that's that's a development thing, you do a lot of stuff with you soccer. I just figured at this point They would be better than this. I don't know.
Yeah, you've hit on a number of points there. We could spend hours discussing. You know Why? You know. You know, the game's been around for a long, long, long, long time.
everywhere else in the world and it's still relatively young here. you know we haven't got that much history and pedigree you know Um You know, you look at some of the countries that didn't make it here. You know, Italy's not here where you know they've won it numerous times.
So, I mean, so there's a lot of. Lot of opinions and stuff like that. At the end of the day, you know, are you producing? Um Quality players, or do you have a pipeline to get quality players? When you've got players that you develop, and then they don't want to play for the country, they want to.
They want to take country of their parents or their grandparents. you know, then that cut should kind of tell you that there's probably something wrong. in what's being done. Um We have come a long way, but there's still a long way to go. Yeah, there's so many things.
There's so many things. Pick a level, and I could gripe about it. Pick the top level and how it's run. I could gripe about it. Pick another intermediate level.
I could gripe about it. Yeah, but we're gradually making headway. But We're a pretty impatient nation. When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, you keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns. With Granger's vast selection of high-quality motors, sensors, belts, and hard-to-find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place.
So nothing gets in the way of getting the job done. Call 1-800GRANGER, clickgranger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Yeah, yeah, man. I'll bring this up because As you know, I coach my kid and he's six years old.
Okay, he's going to be seven. Relatively soon. And I coach these kids, and my goal. My goal when I'm coaching these kids is. I want to develop them as soccer players.
I want to develop them individually and as a team. And I want to make sure they're having fun. And I want to make sure they know if soccer is even something they want to do in three years. much less um 10. I will go up against other teams.
At six, seven, eight years old, and their goal is to win that game that day. And I have a big problem with that. And I talk to a lot of parents. Like Around the community that are like, yeah, I agree, Barta. You soccer is crazy.
I don't know what's going on. And then I find out, oh, they just signed up for four days a week. For $1,500.
So I don't. There's too much right now with youth sports, where I just don't want, like, youth sports should be for the kids. But a lot of times it's turned for the parents, it's turned for clubs to make bank. And I think that we're losing a lot. I just saw Lane and Donovan talk about this.
We're losing kids at a certain point. And then it's like, what did you even develop them for? Yeah, well I like what you said, but you left out a huge component, and that's the parents. That's that's you know We I see so many kids and at the end of the day I you know The kids' actions should tell you whether they're having fun and enjoying it or not. You know, and you know, parents are always looking for more, for more, because you know, that's but if your kids aren't out there on their own in their own time with their own soccer ball, Then then everything else is a facade.
It comes down to the kids what they want. And The majority of the countries around the rest of the world, soccer is the main sport. And the kids are dreaming and want to, you know, they've got their idols out there. and that you know they they're they're playing all the time or they're playing a lot Here we have Too much structure for all the sports, not enough free play. We used to play all the time in the street, in the parking lots, in the playground.
You know, you could always find a pickup game somewhere. That's where you learn it. It wasn't that there was structure. the kids, the community. around had that structure.
and now everything they think is oh if i do this then my kid's going to be great Well, that's not how it works. We have an educated parent base. Look at the numbers. The numbers don't lie. It's not that difficult, but parents think with their heart and not with their brain when it comes to youth sports.
Let the experts do what they do. Which is which is in the full-time full-time coach. Just like if you have an issue with your car, you take it to a mechanic. You don't take it.
somewhere else. You take it to the expert. And then and let these those guys do their job. In old? The other argument is that you talk about soccer being like the main sport in a lot of countries.
Um The pushback I would be to like, well, LeBron James isn't playing soccer, and Patrick Mahomes isn't playing soccer. The greatest soccer player in the world is like five foot six and 160 pounds. You know, so I I don't think we need I think in a country of 330 million people. You should be able to find 22 guys that can compete. At a high level, but we still they're still like there's still a ceiling for the US.
Yeah, well if you if you put them in the right environment, there's a lot of good soccer people in this country. You know, a lot of them aren't taxed. Two of them are right here. A lot of them aren't tapped on. Because the way the structure and the hierarchy has been been be put in place.
You know We've got to go overseas to get a a coach to come and coach the national team. You know, why is that? What well, you know, maybe. You know, they've tried different things, but then they've got to look at themselves. Why isn't it working?
So, I mean, like I said, we can talk about it all day long. Um Um all I know is that There are other countries with way less numbers that do more with what they've got. England. Uh your homeland. How do uh how do you expect them to fare?
They should have a good a good competition what does what does good mean If you get if you get to the quarterfinals or semi-finals, Especially if you look back at What the you eighteens, you twenty-one's have done. In other tournaments since the last World Cup, because if you look at it, Those are the players that should be groomed through to be playing on the national team. you know four years ago from four years ago and if you look now There's a number of those players because the younger national teams had had some success on the world stage.
So They, you know, if you if you look back in history, you look at those countries that have had success. at the last Youth World Cup or, you know, U twenty one's. That's the crop of players coming through. And so with England, We should have a relatively successful, but the bar is high in England. We have the best league in the world, professional league.
We're one of the eight countries that have won it.
So, you know, we've got a star on our chest, even though some countries have more. Um So, we kind of should have a pretty good idea of what it takes. And so, now we've just got to go and prove it. And, you know, a little bit of luck. The one thing that we always say in England is we plan in a hot climate.
A really hot climate. You know, Dallas is going to be crazy temperatures against Croatia. you know and Hopefully our players I know the coach told him to come on haldy over here before you know Training camps started so they get acclimatized to the conditions in America. But you know, in most of the world, it's a full winter sport, full sport. And so you're not used to playing in, you know.
hundred degree temperature with you know with very high humidity.
So that's always been a little bit of a struggle for the English teams. Yeah. I'm going to ask you. Which you've probably been asked a lot. I've been asked a lot, I don't have an answer.
The favorite. For the World Cup, who do you like? I know Spain, France. I throw Belgium as a dark horse. Yeah, maybe Argentina.
A lot of kids are going to be rooting for Argentina. Once the USA falls out.
Well, I think I think if you know if If you're a betting man, you'd probably put it on some money on those teams. You're probably not going to make a huge amount because they are the favourites or they've got. Top quality players, that's why I said it takes, you know, to win a championship, and I've won quite a few of them, you know. There are times that you are the best team and you don't win. You know, it does happen.
Injuries can happen, you know, a bad caller.
Well, at least now they've got VAR, you know, which is new from. The last time the World Cup was staged here. You know, so you know, hopefully if if they get that sorted out and uh you know, the fix is not in, then they should be uh You know, at least we can see. Everyone a lot of big ifs right now. A lot of big ifs.
Yeah, yeah. Just like, you know, just like, you know, replay in baseball and hockey and basketball, you know, it's. Yeah. So A lot of things can happen, but yeah, I would think that the winner is going to come from one of those six countries. Yeah.
Probably. But should be a fun tournament. As we get there, you again, you played. For the wave for 15 seasons, a few seasons before that. I was just watching this documentary.
The summer of 94 documentary, I was watching how that team came together. Yeah. And one of the guys they talked to, Jeff Agus, defender on that team. He played like a year or two in indoor. And he said, like, he didn't, he didn't like it.
He couldn't figure it out because it's basically. Hockey with a soccer ball. As a player, just how different are the two things indoor versus outdoor. Um Okay. Yeah, well there's There's the the physical side of it, um the conditioning side of it.
The newness of it. Um The nuances of the game when you've got balls being played off off a off a wall. Whereas normally that would be out of bounds.
So depending on how you Um How you adapted to that.
So, but you do, you get players who have opinions. It's no different than.
Some other sports that have hybrid versions, you know, arena football to American football. You know, they still put on pads and helmets, and the ball's the same shape.
So the certain things are the same. Uh but back with Back with the old team. Um And at that time. You know, part of the prerequisite of having the World Cup over here was to have a professional. league in place because In 84, sorry, 85 was when the old NASL folded.
And so, so for when that next World Cup came around, there was meant to be a league in place, and there was no Um respected professional league in the US. I think it was for nine years until MLS started. And so there was a void. Players who are playing overseas, the really good ones, you know. Harpes was playing in England, and some of the other guys are playing in Germany and stuff.
So But a number of those players played indoor, and that's where I was playing because. There was no outdoor professional league, and if we wanted to play and stay in this country, which I did, then it was the indoor was the only route. For me the to get a work permit to stay in the country. And so you had those players and that's and then Um you know, when when when they had international games, outdoor games, national team games, they pulled the best players. And where were the best players playing?
There was a there was a handful of them in Europe and the rest of them were playing in indoor.
So that's where they went. They did their training camp. You know, and it's like you start riding the bike. You don't forget. Yeah.
You know, whether it's indoor or outdoor, whether you're riding a bike indoors or outside, it's still riding the bike.
So you adapt. You know, and the players that adapted were able to have pretty successful careers playing indoor. If you look at the guys who play who are in the Hall of Fame for the indoor. They all cut their teeth playing outdoor. Did you think about that jump, or was that possible for you?
Because you were like. I mean, if you don't know, Michael King was like. An amazing player in indoor soccer.
Well, no, I. I was three-time All-American at college, led the nation in scoring as a freshman. and couldn't get into the proteins outdoors. Because you had to kind of go through your four years, and then, well, when four years was up, there was no league. The league would fold.
But if you're so, you were, when did MLS start?
So 96, so you were. You already had like a decade in indoor. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah.
So, was that? Did you want to make that jump back, or were you just content with it? I wanted to stay in America. And that was the way I was. At the top level.
Yeah. You know, that's, you know, that's why a lot of those players came.
well come over to America, you know, to go to college 'cause they're not in a pro environment overseas. That's just how it is, you know, but then. You've got a number of those players that were top professionals and they were at the end of their career and you saw in MLS like David Beckham, you look at Messi, those guys are coming over in the twilight of their career. They're still doing it. And out?
Who was the guy from Germany that it was a real disaster with New York? Who was that guy? Recently, no, in like 98 with the Metro star Schweinsteiger. Ah, no, it's somebody else. I gotta look it up.
Okay. It was like it just he came and played like four games. Balak? Did Ballot come? No, it was somebody else.
I'll look it up. But then you have guys, I love when guys like Messi, what Messi's doing here is cool. And he's packing stadiums. Um and uh The guy with Vancouver. That's going well.
But then like. I loved when Zlatan came over here because he just dominated the league for a year. It's like, see him. Rooney had a good stint. Rooney had a good stint.
That was good. No, I mean it's It's not for everybody, but you know, a lot of a lot of Europeans like to come to America for vacation because if they're big name players, they can. They used to be out of just, you know. Fourth through the cracks, no one recognized him. You talked to Henri, and he used to come to America because he'd walked down Manhattan, no one knew him.
But now the game's got more popular and and you know you can't You know, you have a you know, everyone wants your autograph now, you know, 'cause the world's shrunk with with uh with the internet.
So it's definitely changed. But also. Oh Love Star? Yeah. Yeah, he came and played like a half season with the Metro stars at the time.
After a nice run at Byron. I have a World Cup theory. Or I have a soccer theory. I have a theory on why. If you don't okay, I'll just give you my theory.
People that don't think they like soccer or don't know much about soccer. They need to watch the World Cup. Like first, they need to watch it at the highest level, how great it is, how insane this is going to be. Because I think a lot of people are like soccer, their only experience is watching their seven-year-old run around. Yeah, so I tell you, which is, I mean, it's just you watch a bait, you watch kids play baseball, it's still like that's a baseball game, but soccer is.
Soccer is not what they think soccer is. The vast majority of it. Non-soccer people that I run into, which is quite a lot. Two things. If they travel.
out of the country, whatever country they're going to. There's very few that Don't have soccer.
So hopefully you go there and try to go and watch a professional game. overseas. It's a different animal. You know? Um Uh And then the the other thing that I want and I get him to do is If they can't do that.
Then go to an establishment on a Saturday morning when they're showing A Premier League game or a Brunners League game or somewhere where they can be around. Fans, fanatics. You know, you're starting to see it now. you know That you look at what happened in the deer district during the championship run. You look at all the stadiums now.
Um people Can't get in, there's not enough tickets.
So the whole team, if sorry. It's like Stanley Cup, you know. People are going to the home stadium, even though the team's playing away. Yeah, they packed it. They be together to experience and have fun with it, kind of thing, you know.
Um Yeah, we look at sports a little differently in this country. Go and experience it overseas, and it will. blow their minds and that they will not look at American sporting events the same way. We do a great job in organizing But we do a a a a pretty poor at the atmosphere inside. It's all generated by flashy lights and you know and pom-poms and razza mataz.
Whereas you go overseas. The last sporting event I went to was a Savannah Bananas game.
So, yeah, that's true. Yeah, or you need a mascot, you know, as you know, as you need those sort of things to, you go overseas. The fans generate the atmosphere, and you're starting to see that now when you go and see. Um The loons play in Minneapolis, you know, you know, or the LA playing those, they've got an entourage, they've got a following, and they've got stuff that they do throughout the game, and it is. Emotionally generated, it's not, you know, overly choreographed like a lot of.
you know, a lot of the stuff is, you know. Over here. Uh I got two more for you. Back to your career. I always find it.
Like people. People will, I grew up in Fond du Lac an hour away.
So we would come down to Milwaukee for things. I only made it to County Stadium twice. Because I only went to the Brewers at County Stadium twice. When we came down to Milwaukee, it was for like wave games. Like we came two or three times a season.
To a wave game. And I think if you look at the history of the wave, there's peaks, there's valleys, there's whatever. What do you think was like the heyday? For the wave, if I just say Mike, Michael King, Milwaukee wave, like, what's your free association? What's your do you have like images that pop up right away?
Yeah, um. We were on the map. You know, we played at the Bradley Centre, the Marquis facility. Um We We often How to open up the upper deck at the Bradley Centre. for fans.
So it wasn't, you know. How it's been, or sometimes it is at the Panther Arena. You know, we had a good fan base clientele. We hit all the local clubs, youth clubs, you know. that get them out of the game.
We were trying to get new people introduced to the game. Um At the end of the day, you're gonna have success. You know The last championship that was won. I know the Admirals, I think, could won a Colder Cup, whatever it is they call it. The Bucks won it way back since then.
You know, it's funny in this city, we celebrate. We celebrate the brewers. I didn't win it on the pen. You know, I get sick of hearing that, you know.
So, but when we got over the line and we won the championship. Um You know, we've gone on and won. I think that we're on seven or eight championships now. You know, we don't get. We don't get the credit that A lot of the sports franchise in certain cities would get if you said you've got seven championships.
you know Um so that's why I say media controls a lot of this a lot of this stuff. Um the heyday Uh we had bread for First public appearance after he won the Super Bowl was at the Bradley Centre, and the Bradley Centre was sold out. I was there.
So So we had people, we had the vision to do something like that.
Okay. And then that ran its course for two or three years. The Women's World Cup team soccer was getting great. We had me a ham.
Sold the place out. Mia Han bought her all-stars, and we did that to help raise money for her. Um her charity that That that she was working on.
So we did that. And uh And that was real the real heyday and throw in there that we had won. We've won championships and been to numerous um Championship finals.
So yeah. Then towards the end of the career. I wasn't as big a part as of the team, but still. We were still I think every year that I played it, we were in the playoffs. Yeah, so that's yeah, I mean that's That's some of the things that you know, I look back on and pretty proud of, you know, that bought numerous championships, and there was a number of players that.
We were part of that. It wasn't just me. I mean, Coach Toza was involved in them for a number of years, and then Giuliano Liviera picked up the reins. Um Yeah, some of those players that You mentioned earlier, Victor Naguera, obviously. He was he was part of that and then um Nick Borberg, who took over from him.
So, you know, we left a legacy, and that's continued on. You know, this year the team got to the final, so it's still. It's still a successful organization from a um competing again into In the championships, and that's what you want with your team. I mean, every year. You ask what's the goal of the Packers?
Well, they're used to winning championships, so if you don't win, then it's not a successful season. Um Know brewers are happy to make the playoffs.
Well, that's because they never won a championship, you know. It's not easy to win. It's not always pretty. But there's no feeling like it in the world. And you win.
You are named the third commissioner of Major League Soccer. What is your first change? Um Oh Because mine is Promotion relegation. Yeah, well, I mean they got they got different platforms different levels I do that, and there's still a player in me. And uh Treat treat the players like they're professionals.
You know, when I came out of college. the NASL or the the old NASL and then the indoor We had a players' union, and so the owners were held accountable. And then when when the owners broke the union, And still to this day, the indoor doesn't have a legal representation for the players. The MLS does, but the Arena Soccer League doesn't. And so I If you're if you're owner of a professional team, take care of your employees.
Seems pretty. I probably wouldn't get the commissionership because that's dictated by the owners. Yeah, the little secret in sports is we always think the commissioner is on the fan side. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, who's playing his paycheck? You're not giving Roger Goodell $60 million to be a fan.
He is the shield for the owners. That's what's happening. Yeah, yeah. No, it's a tough job, don't get me wrong, but you know that going in. You know, that's what that's you know, you take you take on that, but Um Um You know, and k I say, you know, Coach Toza, Commissioner Toza, you know, he was a player.
He was one of the first players. Drafted to play indoor soccer.
So, I mean, he's been around again a very, very long time. Um he's doing Mm-hmm. A job, you know, and everyone has an opinion of how well he's doing his job or whatever, but. There's the game still around, it's growing. And so um Just like the outdoor game, hopefully it will continue to grow and and give people a lot of enjoyment.
I lied, I got one more. Where are you watching these games? Because I like to watch sports by myself. I don't like to watch the Packers with anybody or the Brewers in a playoff game, or unless I guess I'm at the game.
Soccer, I need to watch these games with at least 100 other people. That is the best part of this experience for me. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna uh watch some games. Um During the day at work, I'm a coach, and that's part of learning and continue education. We're going to host some viewing parties here at Eline Soccer Park.
I'm going to go down and and probably watch some games at some point at some of the Milwaukee establishments. Three lions, red lions, nomad. The hybrid somewhere there, and also probably at someone's house, just chilling back with a couple of friends. you know watching the games so you know It's great that it's here, and we've waited a long time for it to come back. You know, four years of waiting to see if we can knock the French off their pedestal.
It's been a great, it's been a great, it's going to be a great summer, and it's been great to catch up with you. Michael King, thanks for stopping into the Winklerverse. Thanks for having me. Yeah. When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, You keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns.
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I wanna revisit my interview with former USA head coach Bruce Arena that we did on Chuck and Winkler. I don't believe Chuck asked a question. In fact, I think he left the room and let me handle it. And I appreciated him for that. But, Bruce Arena, the thing that I was upset about, I'm reading.
The uh, I put a transcript out of it. I'm reading the transcript. I said, Sometimes, when the American soccer fancies, an interview that you do, when we hear that you don't have anger about missing the World Cup, people get mad about that. Do you feel like you are being judged too harshly when your reactions are being scrutinized like that? He says, I don't believe there's a lot in life to be angry about.
There's a lot of stuff going on in this world. That we shouldn't be expressing anger over athletic competition, but we're all disappointed in not being in Russia. And I didn't like that answer. And I'm going to listen to it back now. I haven't listened to it back yet.
I'll listen to it back with you. But I like that answer because I thought he was dismissive of it. This is, this is, this is. I mean, come on. First of all, I agree with him on that.
Why should I get mad? That Matt LaFleur is a bonehead coach. When people die senselessly all over the planet every single day. I agree. I agree.
I'm gonna choose my words carefully here. I don't think you can answer that way when it's your job. Bart, you had a bad show today. Bart, you showed up late. Why are you mad I showed up late?
There's worse atrocities in the world. There are terrible atrocities in the world, and I'm not. We just can't, you shouldn't be able to use that as a defense mechanism to why you failed at something. And that's what I felt like he did.
So I'll listen to it back. I mean, I agree with them. A lot of this is arbitrary. But also, it's, I don't know, whatever, Tim. Tim, I'm gonna call Tim Shea right now.
I'm going to call Tim right now. Uh Tim Shea. Hey, I'm recording a podcast right now. I need you to edit something in post. Will you do that for me?
Sure. You will? I got it. Yeah, I got you. I'll just send over the file and then you'll get it done.
Yeah. Okay, that'll be good. Are you watching the World Cup anywhere or do you not give a shit? Yeah, I mean. I'll wa I'll watch.
I don't know, you know, how many times I'll go out. What's up with you and uh Are you are you do you got something with the bar? Uh, what's it called? Um Toms? Toms, yeah.
Yeah, remember everything I say, I'm gonna air on my podcast right now.
So, okay, all right. I do. And I have an affiliate link, and I get like 10% if people buy tickets. I actually don't think I'm supposed to say that.
Okay. So do you want me to buy a ticket or Do I get to come in with you? I'm going to be there on Thursday. There's a night? No, during the day for the Mexico game.
Oh, okay. I could maybe do something Thursday night with you if you want. I gotta work. Thursday night.
Well, no, Thursday, during the day, obviously. What does the US play? Oh, the US plays Friday night. What are you doing Friday night? Friday night TBD.
Okay. But those are the kind of games you'd want to buy the packages for because seating is going to be tough at those games. Right now I'm just explaining to the people. Gotcha. Gotcha.
Okay. All right. Anything else you want to say on the podcast? I'm in my car, shockingly, I'm in my car. Yeah, I'll talk to you privately in just a second.
I just wanted to. keep this bit going. Oh yeah. Yeah. Do I have anything else?
I can't wait for the brewers.
So leave Vegas. Are you gonna be able to come to the tailgate? Yes, I'm in. I'm 100% in. All right.
I'll get six. $1,000 worth of food. Done. Good. All right.
I'll supply the meat.
Okay. All right, without further ado, that was Tim Shea. And here's an old interview with Bruce Arena. Thanks for stopping into the Winklerverse. Oh, happy place hemp also promo code BART 25% off.
I meant to say that. Oh, I'm getting you gummies. Me? Yeah, I they asked if I needed any more product. I said I gotta get Tim some gummies, the night ones.
You know which ones I like.
So those should be coming soon. The nighttime ones. Yeah. All right. I can't wait.
All right. Here's Bruce. The World Cup? About halfway, over halfway through the first round. Mexico with a big win.
Brazil with a tie? No United States in the World Cup. He tried, Bruce Arena came in for Jergen Klinsman, tried to get him back to the World Cup. They were unable to get there. The new book, What's Wrong With Us?
A coach's blunt take on the state of American soccer after a lifetime on the touchline. is out Coach, thanks for a couple of minutes. Bruce Arena joins us on the Great Midwest Bank Hotline. I don't know where you're at at this point as far as watching these games. I watch these games.
And every time there's a moment of Like, wow, this is a great match. Oh, my goodness. Ronaldo, three goals. Wow, this is great. As soon as I get happy, coach, I get mad.
Like furious. That the United States is not in this thing. Where are you at, having coached that side with the time that's passed? Where are you at when you watch the World Cup?
Well, I clearly have my regrets. I my my plans would have been this World Cup coaching the US team. And We're all disappointed. I can't say I have anger, but I clearly have disappointment in not being there.
Sometimes, when we hear like interviews that you do, when we hear that you don't have anger, then it like, People get mad about that. Do you feel like you're being judged too harshly when your reactions are being. are being scrutinized like that.
Well I don't believe there's a whole lot in life to be angry about. Uh there's a lot of stuff going on in this world that that that we're expressing anger. Uh Uh Of a s athletic competition, but certainly we're all disappointed not being in Russia. We want to be in Russia because the World Cup is, I mean, it's the greatest sporting event that there is. And you see some of these countries, the way they're reacting to goals.
I was mentioning the Uruguay kids, and they The video of them in the classroom, and it's just a fun thing.
So, we want to get back there. Obviously, it's coming back in 2026, but we want to make sure we get back there in 2022. And then we want to get it one step further and start to get farther than we've ever been before.
Now, you have been very successful in the MLS with the five titles there. I'm starting to feel like the MLS is almost working against. U.S. soccer. It's helping strengthen the other countries in our region, but I feel like it's almost working against U.S.
soccer. Is the MLS currently set up, coach? to do the best for US soccer that it was supposed to be intended to do twenty years ago.
Well, twenty years ago, I think it was intended to grow the sport in the United States and grow the domestic players. Today, it's very much an international player league. And that is somewhere that has to be worked out with U.S.
soccer and major league soccer. And that's obviously what I talk about. Uh at the end of the book. better coordination by these two entities to help grow Not only the league. and the sport in the United States, but also develop our players as well.
Coach, there's a lot in the book. Again, it's called What's Wrong with the U.S. or What's Wrong with Us. The play on words that I did agree with. I agreed with a lot of the points you had about the future of soccer and how we need to get there.
And one of the things that you were talking about was. The guys maybe in charge of soccer, like a Don Garber with the MLS, or some of these guys in these higher positions with the United States soccer, maybe don't have that technical background. I wanted to see like a Kyle Martino or an Eric Winalda. take over the presidency, but I feel like it's More of the same kind of a status quo. Did they get it right with the U.S.
soccer president that was named, or should they have gone down a different road?
Well, to be elected President of US soccer is very political. and a newcomer is not going to be able to step in and get elected. It's a very, very Political organization and no offense by any of the former players, but if you look at the end, Uh the people with the through the best experience on the technical side, were nowhere in the election at the end. And the two people that were there in the end were there for political reasons and supported by Uh you know, major league soccer and and others.
So i i i it's really difficult at that end. Having said that, the leaders in both of those organizations can help grow the game by hiring more people that have experience on the technical side. I feel like with U.S.
soccer. The way that it's positioned, the bottom line is to Make as much money as possible, which I mean, you know, capitalism, that's a good thing. But I feel like that far outweighs trying to actually better the growth of the game in America, get the game to kids who can't afford it. uh circumvent pay-for-play And really grow the game on a grassroots scale. I feel it's more.
financially aimed at Than the game aim. The goal is to make the World Cup coach. I want to see the goal to be to win the World Cup, and I don't think we're on that point.
Well, a lot of countries in the world want to win the World Cup. understand that. There's about two hundred and ten countries that are competing to win a World Cup. every four years during a qualification process.
So first of all, that's not easy. The play the pay-for-play thing is is very confusing to people. Every sport in this country is paid for play. for the most part. And uh i i if you thought the US soccer could pay for everybody in the United States, just millions of kids playing.
That's not possible. And pay for play just happens to be how our sports work in this country at every level. There are young kids pay paying f uh To play in hockey and football and baseball, etc.
So I can't knock US soccer about that. U.S. soccer actually identifies the best young players. in the country and they're part of these academy programs is w which is about a hundred teams of uh a hundred clubs I should say it doesn't Take care of every kid, but it takes care of the elite players. And the other part I would say, in all fairness, any young player with Exceptional skill.
and is i identified, uh if they don't have money, there th there's a way to uh pay for those players.
So in all fairness, I'd like to correct that part of it. Is US soccer very commercial in what they do? Yeah, uh a little bit, but they are a nonprofit organization. And they need to spend the money they have. Right now, they've got a big bank account, so they can allocate funds a little bit better to help the sport.
And then as a governing body of soccer in the United States, they have to do a better job in putting demands on major league soccer and getting domestic players on the field. Every league in the world takes care of their own. They put in their own rules and regulations to allow for domestic players to play. And in our case, we need to do that, but we also need to get our young players on the field. They're very talented players, and we have to have some rules in place to get them on the field.
We're bringing a lot of players from Central America, South America, young players. They pay a lot of money for them. They get them on the field. The American player is not getting on the field. Coach Bruce Arena, the book is What's Wrong with.
Us, would you like to see? You're very hopeful in the book that they we can win a World Cup. in our lifetimes. Would you like to see Major League Soccer? Does promotion relegation go toward that step?
Or is that not something that the U.S. can pull off?
Well, I think many years down the road, they can do that. Right now, you see this expansion where new ownership comes in, and they pay a franchise fee, they build stadiums, they build training facilities. They're in about a half a billion dollars a start. And to tell those teams in one year you could possibly go down in the second division. Uh is not feasible.
I think they what they can do in the second and third division, start utilizing promotion relegation. And I would say that the teams that finish on top in the second division don't move up to Major League Soccer, but the teams that finish in the bottom of second division go down the third, the teams that finish in the top of third, go up to the second. Start experimenting that with our country and then say perhaps ten or fifteen years down the road, we want to start implementing this format for First Division as well. Coach, how do you feel about Landon Donovan rooting for Mexico? Uh I'll be honest with you.
Uh It it it it doesn't bother me a whole lot. I you know, w we're gonna hopefully support our teams out of CONCACAF in the World Cup. Uh, you know, we we compete real hard against Mexico. uh uh during the World Cup if we're not in the World Cup uh I don't mind that. You know, I I think some of the discussion is Do you support them i in commercial activities.
That's another question. But I'm all for Mexico, Panama and Costa Rica doing well in this World Cup. Coach, appreciate some time. Again, the book is called What's Wrong With Us. Coach Bruce Arena, we appreciate it.
Hope to talk again soon. Thank you. I appreciate you having me on. Snoring? Gasping during sleep?
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