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Who knew? Good. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome into the Winklerverse. I'm Bart Winkler.
The Panthers have beaten the Packers 16-13. This is our live post-game show. Following that on Sunday afternoon, and a bad afternoon that it is.
So The title of this Um Episode Everything goes wrong and Packers lost to Panthers. La fleur is so bad I can't take it anymore. LaFleur is terrible. I am tired of pretending that he's not. And I mean, I'm not pretending, but I'm tired of getting.
Bullied into thinking, no, no, no, no, this guy, you know, it's not a me problem. The way Matt LaFleur coaches, he is coaching on purpose. And then the guy has the gall. To say scared money don't make money. He's joking about how he doesn't give a shit about Halloween.
Basically, you've got a captive audience. of beat writers that You know, I don't want to. Harp too much on them, but they do make them laugh. Almost in a Pastor makes the Parishioners laugh, sort of way, just enough to keep. Everything status quo in Green Bay.
And I understand that you're not going to fire Matt LaFleur right now. There's a couple of these reels that I've made where I say fire them. And people are like, well, who are you going to hire? Who are you gonna hire? If you fire Brent, who are you going to go?
He'll get hired in three seconds. None of that is true, by the way. He would not get hired in three seconds. He'll probably get another job at some point, but he would not get hired in three seconds. I'm just so tired of that argument and I'm tired of the Uh who you gonna who are you gonna hire?
Who are you gonna hire? First of all. You're not. Firing Matt LaFleur. I know you're not.
They're five, two, and one. And they have every opportunity to be a playoff team and possibly make a run.
So obviously, I'm going to bitch about LaFleur a lot. That is my preface to the bitching about Matt LaFleur. On the same token, Jordan Love. Made two. Two very bad decisions in this football game when he was allowed to.
I should say, make decisions. on his birthday. I'll throw the link up in a little bit. But I need uh I need them I need them I need to ramble. uh for a while 'cause I'm pretty um Well, I'm pretty annoyed.
That was just, and here's the thing. Two. They lost to the Panthers. They were two touchdown favorites against the Panthers. The Panthers did not deserve to beat two touchdown underdogs.
And I'm not trying to talk my way out of a loss. You know, oh, they lost, and I'm gonna. I'm not trying to do that. They lost to an inferior opponent. Bryce Young didn't do anything special.
Rico Dowdle, who I know in Carolina, it's like They think this guy is Saquon Barkley or some shit. He's having a nice stretch, and he had a good year last year. I don't buy that this is like This is who he is. He's going to be the next great running back. I'm not buying any of that.
But he ran all over the Packers today. Certainly. He finished with 130 yards and two touchdowns. And there were a lot of two, three-yard carries that turn into six, seven-yard gains.
So I think that was a big problem. for uh Green Bay there. Um but the Panthers are not a team That is just going to lay down for you. I know they laid down for buffalo. Um And I know that their season's been kind of wacky, but they are a young team that's trying to figure out what they are.
I thought we were going to get Andy Dalton in this game, we got Bryce Young. Towards the end of the week. Panthers did beat Atlanta 30 to nothing. They beat Miami. They beat Dallas.
They beat the Jets, they beat Green Bay. They lost to New England, Arizona, Jacksonville, and Buffalo. And they lost to Buffalo without Young. Dalton didn't do much.
So they're kind of a sporadic team. But they could like they could be a playoff team. I don't think this is like, oh, you lost to the. Jets or the Brown.
Well, we lost to a worse team. We did. We actually lost to a worse team this year.
So if you're upset that they lost, you should be. But remember they lost to a worse football team. This year. Then then the team they lost to Today. Again, I don't think that they should have been two touchdown underdogs.
I certainly think that we should have beaten them, but we did not beat them because everything did go wrong. I'm struggling to think of a good aspect. Of this game. The kicking is disastrous again. They went for it on fourth down a lot, so I commend them for that.
I'm fine with them not going for two at the end. I know why you would have. But the big issue in this game is when Jordan Love was allowed to execute. He made a couple of mistakes. And Matt LaFleur I think is calling these games in a way where Establishing the run seems to be more important to him than winning the football game.
I said this online: the way Matt LaFleur is coaching is intentional. He is not He is not unable to coach, and he's just coaching poorly. And he's like, oh, I can't figure this out. Give me time. This is his seventh year.
This is him. This is him. For whatever reason, the team was not ready to play and quickly win this game. This is his personnel choices. And I know Golden and Kraft got hurt.
But save Jan Williams right away with a fumble. Uh not good. The predictability. of always running the football on a first down. There was a time light they threw, but for more often than not, and you can look up the stats.
I'm of course talking uh In anecdotes, but they Too often were running the football, and it was very predictable. And then you get into another second-down run, and then you get into a third down. Where, if you're going to go for on fourth, you know, you're going for fourth, but they put themselves in that position too many times. And this third-down bubble screen shit. Like he loves that play and he will make it work until it works.
I got to throw it behind the line of scrimmage. I gotta have three blockers in front. Because if I break one, I'm going to break one. You know the play in Madden? Um Halfback slip screen.
It's very fun to run when the opponent is blitzing your ass all day. That's why you can never run play action against a buddy. Uh, just doesn't work. Maybe against the computer, you can suck it in, but never against a buddy.
So, the slip screen's fun because if you let it. You know, you run around and you let it materialize, you're gonna get a guy open, you're gonna hit him, and he's gonna go. And he's going to have blockers. And LaFleur is trying to do that constantly.
Now, I'm a big proponent of playing Madden as a head coach to get yourself familiar with scenarios and situations. But you got to give up on a play if it's not going to work. And that is his bread and butter. Right now, and it's very infuriating. They know how to run slants.
There's been plenty of times where Jordan Love dropped back. He completed 26 balls. Um He wasn't He wasn't terrible at all. Jordan Love just threw two really bad passes. The interception into triple coverage was terrible, and then he is lucky that he got away.
Where the guy was out of bounds anyway, he came back in, but he got away with a pick that could have been returned. All the way, but that was still on a fourth down that got busted, and you're trying to just do anything at that point. Uh the the the The outcome would have been very bad, but I do understand how he got in that position. When they did let him uncork the ball, after I was bitching all day about LaFleur, please let him cork the ball and cork the ball. It's his birthday, let him throw it.
Um He throws it and he throws into triple coverage and he throws uh He throws an interception. Let's go to some of the comments. Aaron says Matt LaFleur, Masterclass game. This is why they call him Little Matt. Ken says he's angrily folding his lingerie.
Fuck this coach, fuck these players. who play down to their shit ass opponents. Silver lining, they have the Eagles next.
So they might try. Although they didn't the last time they played him. In the playoffs, they just kind of gave that one away. Two. Chuck says definitely a happy place, hemp.
evening. And Ben has the same thought. Props to Happy Place Hemp for getting me through this game. Remember, Happy Place Hemp, the promo code is BART 25% each and every order, 25% off. You plug in the promo code, you're going to get it at checkout.
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Promo code BART. We'll have a seltzer for tonight's game for sure. 25% off each and every order. All right, some more comments from the masses. I do have a special guest joining us.
I believe. Told me all week he would. I'm pretty sure he's coming. And then we'll also open things up. To others.
Stalust Tom, always like hearing from him on the postgames. Sincerely, I do. When you need two scores to win, take the effing points. Elton Jenkins might be worse than Josh Myers. The O-line is a mess, and LaFleur wants to run behind it like it's the 93 Cowboys.
And and this I'll just say is my biggest gripe with LaFleur. Like again. I will put on Facebook LaFleur stinks. Knowing I'll rage bait into some comments. I'll put on Twitter.
Criticisms about Matt LaFleur. All day long. I think I tweeted. After not tweeting really in a month, I tweeted eight times how much I hate him. I even added him.
At Coach M. LaFleur.
So I'm a big tough man. I'm a big tough boy.
Okay. Um But this is he is coaching this way intentionally. This is this is This is how he wants to coach. And at one point, um I saw Ernagler. Tweet that Matt LaFleur needs to coach for the team he has.
not the team he wishes he had. But then again, that doesn't make sense either. Because remember when he had Derrick Henry with the Titans, he didn't run Derrick Henry.
So now he's got a team that doesn't run the ball as well. I mean, I think Josh Jacobs is good. Emmanuel Wilson's been good, but yeah, this is a team that. You've got a guy who's got top 10 MVP odds. Oh, he probably won't win it this year, but he's got top 10 MVP odds.
And he should be throwing the football more. He should be throwing it on first down. You've got an offense that can run efficiently with the passing game. You can run slots, you can throw the ball downfield. You got Christian Watson with very good hands.
You got Romeo Dobbs, who usually has very good hands. Don't put him in the position where he has to throw it into triple coverage. Don't put him in a position where he's chucking the ball on fourth down. I understand that individually. Those are some terrible throws.
They were. I questioned the situation that he was put in. Again, everything that I have. When it comes to a gripe, about Matt LaFleur. As John says, Bart.
What is LaFlop doing? always plays down to the competition. This is by design. Matt LaFleur is coaching the way he wants to coach. This is how he wants to coach.
Does he have the personnel or the team to coach the way he wants to coach? Doesn't seem like it. You know, a lot of you guys last year. Yeah. talking about How Malik Willis.
was a better option. At quarterback. And that is wrong. Jordan Love is better. But In the style that Matt LaFleur wants to coach.
Perhaps he would rather have Malik Willis. Perhaps he would rather have a guy that is only going to be asked to make three or four throws. But the other rest of the game we're gonna Do screen passes and bubble screens and end arounds and run the football. I mean, he's got a quarterback. They drafted one on his watch, too.
That's why none of this makes sense to me. Matt LaFleur was there. Matt LaFleur was a code signee. On the drafting of Jordan Love. Matt Lafleur for three years was able to have him in his QB school.
or whatever. He was able to work with him and develop him. Matt LaFleur's now had. Three years of Jordan Love. Matt LaFleur is in the driver's seat.
On this situation, he's not Mike McDaniel. Coming in where he's got a coach to a. He's Matt LaFleur. He's got, he was here for Rodgers. He was part of the Jordan Love.
Everything that Jordan Love would be if he's great is going to be attributed to you as Matt LaFleur, and yet here you have him. And you don't want to continue. to give him The football. LaFleur is French so he always surrenders from Heathcliff. With stays under two hundred and fifty dollars a night, Verbo makes it easy to celebrate sweater weather.
You could book a cabin stay with leaf views for days, or a brownstone in a city where festivals are just a walk away. or a lakeside home with a fire pit for cozy nights with friends. Or if you're not a sweater person, we can call it corduroy weather. More flexible. And with stays under $250 a night, You can book a home that suits your exact needs.
Book now at Verbo dot com. In Walmart's Houlouville, everyone readied their cart. The early Black Friday deals are about to start. Online and in the app, such great deals to explore. everything you love from tech toys and more.
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All right. I do have a special guest on the proceedings today. Ladies and gentlemen. Ryan Horva! Dog.
All right, I'm 15 in. Good to see you. Are you? I'm having a uh I broke the streak. We're drinking some Guinnesses today.
When you lose to the Carolina Panthers, it's a minus 100,000 favorite on the money line. It's caused to drink some beer.
So, as soon as I actually wrap up with you, I'm gonna run across the street to the liquor store and probably grab another 12-pack. My wife wants to go out to dinner tonight. God damn it, dude. The fucking Broncos just won. I went five and two, six and two on my bets today, but I had the Giants and I had the Broncos, so.
That was a tough loss. I bet my other loss was the Packers, though. I bet the Packers is 13.5 point favorites because.
Well, and I give the Panthers credit because they are not, they shouldn't have been that, but I'm also not trying to talk my way out of anything. Basically, I know. That You will shit on Jordan Love for those throws. He was bad. They were bad.
I think LeFleur put him in his position. to be bad. Would rather have Malik Willis as the quarterback. I do. And I think LaFleur, the way LaFleur is coaching, like It's not that he got this job.
And he's just bad at it. This is how he wants to call a football game. He wants to call behind the line of scrimmage screens on third down. He wants to run the ball constantly. He cares more about establishing the run.
He is more of a, and he went on a lot of fourth downs today. But I still think for him to have been the one of any coach this year. To have said scared money don't make money. That came out of Matt Lafleur's mouth? I think is a crime.
So there's there's not really one thing that went well today. And they've got some injuries to their offensive weapons. And I'm only drinking a diet zero dew. But I mean, I'm going to be the guy that shits on Matt LaFleur. I'm just going to.
But nothing went right today. I don't even know what to. Celebrate. Yeah, there's really not a whole lot that you can celebrate. The only thing that you could maybe celebrate is it looks like the Bears.
Might like have an epic loss here. They might blow this game. Did the Vikings hang on? Vikings hung on, they won. The Bears, right now, it's second in goal.
For Cincinnati at the Chicago Nine. I have no idea. It was just a time. They got an onside kick somehow. Unreal, dude.
It's second in goal right now. Joe Flacco, we got a little single back formation here in the shotgun. And he has. Wow. Oh my god, dude.
The Bengals just took the lead, or they just tied the game. Extra point takes the lead.
So that's the only good thing here is it looks like Can I show the game on tape delay on red zone? I don't think so. I think that'll get us boosted. If you see the reflection in the mirror behind me, you can see it kind of. See?
Yeah. I can. Actually, a little bit. Joe Flacco steps back. It's uh that guy's name I can't say.
Ecovash or whatever. Touchdown, baby. Um You know. Just honestly, you can't lose to the Carolina Panthers as a 13.5 point favorite. And I'm not here to defend Jordan Love's play because.
He threw, honestly, those might be. The interceptions, the one into triple coverage might be one of the worst balls you'll see all year, but the one in the red zone. I think was even worse.
So I would say probably Two of the worst balls you'll see all year. The defense of Jordan Love would be well all of his healthy wide receivers were dead. Everybody got knocked out of that game. The Tucker Kraft injury absolutely sucks. That did not look good, man.
Knee injury. Um so beat up weapons, I think they probably Overlook Carolina a little bit, but this is what pisses me off, man. You're a 13 and a half point favorite. If that's a road game, I understand maybe. Kind of like this isn't even the worst team we've lost to if you are going to be like, oh, we lost to the Panthers, we lost to the Browns, my friend.
I think the Browns are a good football team. I think they're a quarterback away, man. That's the best defense in the league. I think they're starting to Sean Watson next year again. I mean, I'm ready for the Shador Sanders experiment.
It's clearly not Dylan Guy. Must they trade? Can they trade Deshaun Fortua? Because both teams are kind of stuck with those contracts. If they could, I would take two over to Sean.
Yeah, get two in the cold weather. Is Parsons a bust? I got that comment. He had three stars. No, no.
No. No. But that's the thing, like, we all rip Jerry Jones, and rightfully so. But Dallas' defense sucked with Micah Parsons.
So maybe when you think back on it, he made the right move. You bring in Kenny Clark to try to help the run defense, and you get two first-round picks. You know, the argument that I would have against the two first-round picks is Green Bay is going to win double-digit games and you're going to be picking like twenty-fifth. 26, but it's still two first-round picks. And if they don't want to pay all that money to Micah Parsons, I guess it would make sense because it's not like Dallas is just like one player away from being a contender.
Maybe they are though, man. Dak if like Dak's on any other team, he's probably the MVP of the league, so Maybe they are just a player away. I think the Packers will be fine. You know, I really do. Yeah, but so they're gonna be, they're gonna, like, they are going to be fine in the grand scheme of the season.
And what I also said was, like, I have tweeted Matt LaFleur should be fired a lot. And there's one reel that I posted from like week three that picked up some steam where I was like, LaFleur should be fired, and it got steam after the Packers and Steelers game. And so everyone's like, Oh, LeFleur's so great, or whatever. I'm not going to be bullied into thinking LaFleur is ever good. He is, he is who he is.
Okay. He is a uh, where's this? Where's this one I got from uh Jively? It's the play calling. Absolutely, it's the play calling.
He coaches. I can't stress it enough. Horvat, you and I. If I may. You and I are very Wee.
get upset at people when they suck right Yeah.
Okay. So When someone does something. That you can't understand why they're like, I can't understand. Why Matt LaFleur, of all people, said scared money don't make money.
Now if he's trolling Fuck you, because you know that you are. A bitch. And you're saying that and people are gonna laugh because I and then I then what's gonna happen, and we'll try to find it, but he's gonna go to this press conference, he's gonna say, I didn't I didn't this, I didn't this, I'll put on all the blame on me. And just when some of the people in that media room Are gonna be like. All right, I'm gonna write the article that Matt LaFleur ain't it.
He's gonna be like, he's gonna make some pastor-like joke. Which will get a chuckle out of these guys like, man, LeFleur, look me in the eye. All right. Shit on Jordan Love, shit on the O-line, injury excuse. It's just I don't think Matt LaFleur, like, again, I don't think Matt LaFleur is going to get fired today, and I'm not saying he should, but they need to make.
They need I would I'm going to have a hard time. They need to make the Super Bowl, or I would like a new coach. Fuck it. I don't care about NFC championship. They need to make a Super Bowl or get him out of here.
Honestly, they're going to make the playoffs, even if they were to lose in the wild card round. Or the divisional round? His job would still be safe. I'm not saying LaFleur is overrated, man. But you know what I never gave him credit for?
Was the Packers had Really like one down year. And he takes over. And they win thirteen games with Aaron Rodgers. And then he wins 13 games with Aaron Rodgers. Like, you were gifted.
In my opinion, we could argue on the at least the top five, talent-wise, quarterback of all time.
So you were supposed to win 13 games and Brian Gudekins that second year or first year. Spent a ton of money in free agency. You had a motivated Uh Preston and uh Zadaria Smith. You brought in Adrian Amos, who was pretty good that first year. And um You know, that was a good team, so you should have won 13 games.
Well, Floor is also the same guy. Oh my god, the Bears are gonna win this game, Bart. They just Caleb Williams just threw a game winner. He did with how many seconds left? Ticole Sten fucking loved one, dude, who I bet to scored two touchdowns today.
Woo! We may be unemployed. But we ain't broke, baby. Colston big game Loveland. And you know what, man?
Even though I hate the Bears. Everybody was like in my message like oh you you hate Jordan Love, but you love Caleb Williams. Yeah, Caleb Williams is fucking good and here's the thing I'm not a Jordan love hater I thought he played like dump today and you can't play like that against the Carolina Panthers I get that Packers fans don't watch like the other teams but Carolina has like a generationally bad defense last year historically Loveland broke a tackle and last year the Panthers had historically dude like one of the worst defenses and they're a little bit better this year but they're outside the top 25 in every single category.
So I get all your wide receivers were dead. I get LaFleur's play calling was shit. I get you wanted to run the ball all day long and he doesn't trust Jordan Love. That's the thing. We heard it on the broadcast last week, dude.
during the Aaron Rodgers jerk-off session. Matt LaFleur. Would have preferred to keep Aaron Rodgers. We all knew that, man. Like, that was a Brian Goudekin's decision.
They moved on from Aaron. Probably the right time to do so. I'm not here to be like, oh, they should have never moved on from Aaron Rodgers. Here's what you get. Rodgers is old and he's playing great football.
But You know, like Jordan Love has 13 touchdown passes, the two picks. You know, if you look at the numbers, man. Tealers beat the Colts today, those frauds. Yeah, yeah. Thank God, too.
I want the Steelers to win that division, man. I'm cheering for Rogers, I'm cheering for love. I'm not here to be like Jordan love sucks, but I like to joke about it because You know, that's kind of like. My uh My bit is that I'm the Aaron Rodgers guy that everybody thinks hates Jordan Love. I don't, man.
But today's just another example where. I'm not ready to throw him in the MVP conversation. That's Thieler's secondary as crap. He really, I like, honestly. Could we?
Motivate Jordan Love like he's playing against Rodgers every single week. Last week, man, 20 straight completions locked in. You could tell he really wanted that one. And I'm not saying he didn't really want the one today. This is where I blame today's loss, not on Jordan Love.
Not on the defense. The defense played good enough to win that football game, man. I blame Matt LaFleur because if you sleepwalk as a 13 and a half point favorite, by the way, this is the biggest upset. in the NFL dude since 2022. The Packers.
That's bullshit. They should not have been a 13.5-point favorite. I know, but like, honestly, they should have at least won the football game at home. And you have to blame Matt Lawrence. Yeah, that's just me.
I mean what I said, but it sounds like I'm a little bitch when I say that. You know what I'm fucking sick of, though? Every loss. Matt LaFleur at the podium. in tears, looking like he's about to cry like his puppy ran away.
And it's always the same shit. Right? Uh it used to be with Aaron Jones. I abandoned the Rudd game. We didn't run the ball enough.
I got to go to Aaron Jones more.
Now, after every loss, it's always, I got to be better. I didn't put the team in the best position to win. We weren't prepared. That falls up. Like, yeah, that does fall on you.
You know, undisciplined football. Penalties losing is a 13 and a half point favorite at the crib at Lambeau Field to Carolina. That is on the coaching staff. That's on Matt LaFleur, man. And I'm with you.
It almost should be Super Bowl or bust. How much longer are we going to continue this?
Well, they're the youngest team in the league. You gotta have playoff failures before you have success. Let's remember that Matt LaFleur is the same guy, and I know you guys want to bring up all the incompletions and forcing the ball to Devontae Adams. He's the same dude that kicked the fucking field goal with that defense with Kevin King as his... Is this shutdown corner?
In Jaire, but he was the same guy that kicked the field goal against Tampa to make a one-possession game, a one-possession game in hopes. that his defense would get him the ball back. Like that's ever been the case for us, man. When has the defense in Green Bay history ever got the ball back for the quarterback? Never, ever, ever, ever.
So the floor. When he's good? He's really good at game planning and scripting and play calling, but you know when he's never really all that, even when they build big leads. They always take their foot off the gas in the second half, man. Every game becomes uncomfortable in the second half.
And it's because LaFleur's a great Nerd, he's good at game planning and scripting, but when he has to make decisions, clock. You know, clock management, timeouts, you know. That's where I think he's a little overrated. I really do. He's not McVay.
He's not Shanny, his buddies. They're way better than him. They stuff him in lockers every single time they play against each other. And the game actually, like, how many times has Shanny shoved them in a locker? When the Packers have had the better final thing.
Oh, I think they love coaching against him, too, because they know that he's like the. You put all those coaches together that are buddies in a game of pick up anything. Um And he's the last one being picked. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing.
Like, I think that they know he's kinda like the cuck of the friends. Like, I think. I mean, look at him at the podium. You ever see Kyle Shanahan look like he's about to fucking cry after a loss? No, he's like ringing out his team.
Like his players hate him, man, because he's such a dick. LaFleur is like too buddy-buddy. And you know what? He always wants to be like the fake tough guy. Oh, I don't care about Halloween.
I don't care about that. Yeah, it doesn't. You know, he was out there. trick-or-treating in a costume. Oh, you know it, dude.
And and like, I wanna see him get pissed off, break something. You know what? He's a little bitch. I'm trying to find some, and I'll put the uh I'll put the um I'll put the link up here. Oh, Ben, Ben.
Scared money don't make money. Five dollar donation from Ben. Scared money don't help out maybe come. Later. We can't say.
Yeah, soon we will. I'm about there. I might just say it. Yeah. All right.
Um I want to.
Someone also keeps like pretending to be Matt LaFleur's wife in these comments. It's well really? Yeah, she's like, my husband's crying. When he's unemployed, he makes us watch Barney.
Now she's like, he was Barney for Halloween.
Well then you spell the fluorite. Oh, another thing. I'm not in on calling Jordan Love Pookie. I don't think that I don't want to do it. Why is everybody calling him Pookie?
Is that his? I don't know. Is it? Is that like a nickname when he was a kid or something? No.
I'm calling him Dookie 'cause he played like shit. Again, I want Jordan Love to prepare like he's playing against Aaron Rodgers every single week, man. Here's some things that LaFleur did say. Uh, sounds like Tucker Kraft has a serious knee injury and it does not look good. He's done.
And I blame LeFleur. I blame LaFleur for running the ball so much to keep him on Run protection. You know? You pass the ball, Maury never gets hurt. I blame LeFleur.
I'm trying to look.
Okay, let me pull up the box score today. If we can't figure shit out, he said shit again. Look, like, I know it's cool that we say shit on a podcast. Man LaFleur dropping shit twice in one week is lame. This guy is a fake tough guy.
He's scrappy fucking do. I was so perfect on that. He's scrappy do. Dude, so if we can't figure shit out in the red area, God fuck you. It's going to be tough to win football games, man.
Fuck you. Here's one of those games where you go back Like And you're like, how the fuck did they lose this game, man? 369 total yards. Carolina only had 265 total yards of offense.
So they outgained them by over 100 yards, man. They ran 63 plays. They ran 11 more plays. They averaged 5.9 yards per play. They beat them in the first down category.
Passing yards, they had more. Yards per attempt, they had more. Third down efficiency. They were 7 for 13, Green Bay was. Carolina was only 4 of 10.
Time of possession, Green Bay, 30 minutes and 10 seconds. Carolina, 20 seconds. $29.50. They won all the major categories. They lost this game because of the coaching staff and because they couldn't cash in in the red zone.
And that's because the red zone play calls. And he's blaming, he's saying, as a team, his quote was: if we can't figure shit out, yeah, in the red zone, you're calling a screen. For Emmanuel Wilson. Behind the line of scrimmage. And that's the thing.
Okay, so if you want to. And that's not like, oh, that's one bad play he ran. Don't. That's his whole thing. That's what he like.
This was such a time capsule Matt LaFleur game. If you're ever like. Why don't you like Matt LaFleur? This is the game, man. Yeah, and this is where Green Bay, dude, you know what they could really use is a change of pace back.
And I thought that was gonna be Lloyd if he could stay healthy, but that's really what they're missing is like a home run hitter. His injury is as mysterious as Berzinga's last playoffs. But you know how, like, Detroit. They spent money on David Montgomery, but they also went out and drafted Gibbs. I thought that was fucking genius because you have that like lightning and thunder type duo.
And Josh Jacobs did his part today: 17 carries, 87 yards, 5.1 yards per pop, had a touchdown. Longest rush of the day, 18 yards. That's. That's top five running back type shit right there. The problem is what you just said, man.
Wilson. What the fuck? Six carries for 16 yards? His longest of the day was seven yards, 2.7 per pop. He doesn't need six touches.
Savion Williams does not need to get involved with this gadget shit, dude. Didn't you draft Matthew Golden in the first round? Why are we using him like he's Amari Rodgers? Matthew Golden today, first-round pick, right? First, first-round pick is a skill position player for 20 years today.
Again, three targets, dude, two receptions for nine yards. He's your vertical fucking threat. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever should Matthew Golden have two catches? For nine yards. It should be like two grabs for 90 yards.
He should be your Jameson Williams. He should run one route. Down the field, vertical. One route, dude. That's it.
And instead, two carries, two catches for nine yards, man. Romeo Dobbs has been really good this year, by the way. Romeo Dobbs. Is a really good receiver. I also like Christian Watson is.
back from a knee injury. And he's making plays, dude. I know the box score is only gonna say two grabs for 58 yards, but he's blocking. He's a bitch out there, and I mean that in a good way. Tough physical football player.
I've always been a big Christian Watson fan, man. Big Tucker Kraft fan. That injury absolutely sucks. Jordan love. Is easy to rag on for me because he's not Aaron Rodgers and Rodgers won today, and I'm halfway.
Well, one thing I wish he did more like Rogers would be to check out some of these shitty plays. Like, and that's remember when we ripped that? Oh, it's Rodgers calling out of LaFlore's. Yeah, I'd kill for that. I'd kill for that.
You know what? Maybe that's too hard on him. Uh, trick play to Tyler Irvin. You know what I mean? Two years.
Two years, I'm like, God, Rogers, just call what your coach tells you to call. And meanwhile, The coach is calling some of the worst plays ever. Ben L is joining us. Thanks for the five bucks, Ben. Yeah.
You're welcome. Are you wearing a neck brace? That's No, what are you talking about? I got a pack of G. Oh, your neck looks like you're wearing a neck, Brett.
You're so wistful. It's my neck, Bard. All right, what are your thoughts, Ben? I don't think there's a single Good takeaway from the game. You know, you had penalties.
You had kicker problems. They came in with a game plan, Carolina, run the ball, eat the clock, and they won the game. I mean how hard is that to figure out from uh offensive and defensive perspective like How else were they going to win the game? Bryce Young was going to throw for 300 yards? No.
No, like You should have seen it coming and we just got. Beep. All over the place. All Carolina can do is talk about how much they love Rico Daudo. And what do we do?
We let them run all over us. We just let them, we let every two-yard. A temp going to a seven-yard carry. Yeah. That's my biggest takeaway is Yeah, LaFleur, bad play calling on offense, but also.
as a head coach you got to know what the opponent's going to probably do to you. Horbut, I think this one's for you. If the Packers listened to Goose before the game, they wouldn't have lost. Um Yeah, probably, probably true, you know. Um, maybe a little Wu-Tang clan.
Wha what are they listening to? in the uh locker room. I don't even know what to say to that. I fucking can't believe that last minute, you guys, I was like, I'm not going to bet Green Bay because they're a 13 and a half point favorite. And then the number went down to seven and a half, and I was like, they're going to win this.
They did? Yeah, because they weren't doing anything. And so, like, during the game? And I just unloaded on them because I was like, they're not going to lose the Carolina. They're going to win this game by at least 10 points.
And uh And they didn't. See, that one I didn't have on the win-loss for the schedule part. I didn't, guys, I didn't have that as a. Is a letdown spot. You can't lose to the Panthers.
And I know they're a better football team this year. And people are always like, well, Bryce Young's getting much better. He's not. And when I look at Bryce, does Bryce Young not look like he's in the seventh grade? He's not.
He's not getting better. You're right. He sucks. I thought he was for a while, but Hot take Jake joining us with light this time. Good to see you.
I had to give the people what they wanted. You're a very good self-promoter, Jake. Thanks, bud. I feel like you blend in with your Your kitchen Paint setup. Yeah, it looks nice.
Yeah, um I'm not really upset. I don't get that upset about sports anymore, but it's just like it's kind of exhausting being a sports fan. To me, it reminds me of. Like, why do we as humans We get pets. And we know that like, these things are gonna die.
And like, we know we're going to put ourselves through that.
So, like, I look at today. I wasted three plus hours of my life watching that. And then Chicago wins on a last. What else were you going to do? What are you going to do?
Break the fucking leaves, Jake? Anything, man. Like, contribute to society? You know, what? What are you going to do?
You're going to domestic payers? You're going to go to a soup kitchen? Maybe, you know what?
Next week, maybe I will. All right. To appease you, Bart. Yeah, you're right. You know what?
Next Monday night, I'm gonna actually take off, not watching. Let's go to the soup kitchen. Save ourselves. Did you know you can opt out of winter? With Verbo, save up to $1,500 for booking a month-long stay.
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But I ask this because, you know, the LaFleur stuff, it's tired. I'm so sick of having to like. You know, you have friends that just, they, they, they poke you, they prod you. This is my least favorite thing ever. No, I don't want to get rid of Lil Flora because who's out there that's better?
Tell me who's better. Give me someone that would be better. And I'm like, that's not my job, okay? I can tell you the house is on fire. I can't make the, you know, get the fireman here.
That's for someone else to do. But I humbly ask this. We're coming up on a decade. You know, a couple years will be a decade under LaFleur. What is his identity?
As a coach, what is the team's identity under Matt? It's Malik Willis. He had Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love, and he'd rather have Malik Willis as his quarterback. I just he's someone that If one thing goes out of place. It's over.
Like Tucker Craft got hurt. the offense stopped completely. They decided, like, we're just going to run the ball. They probably thought we'll run these guys out of the building all day. It wasn't working, so it's like.
Well, what are we supposed to do? What I planned didn't work. incapable of making adjustments. Yeah. The late game stuff, he has no clue what he's doing.
Like no. Carolina gets the ball. I think there was two minutes and like 50 seconds left. You stop him on first down for nothing. Doesn't take a timeout, lets the clock run.
Carolina picks up a first down, then takes a timeout. Like, what are you doing? Do you have any clue whatsoever? How about the two-minute drive, Jake? Run, run, run, holding, holding.
Let the clock go, incomplete, then call timeout.
Well, you know, what's funny is like I say I'm not upset, and then I come on this show, and now I'm getting myself upset, getting all worked up about it. I'm an idiot, but um. I don't know. The Jordan Love, my God. Like, yes, he's good, but.
Two of the worst throws you're going to see all year, and that throw across his body when he. reared up and he went to throw it. I'm like...
Someone's wide open in the end zone with nobody by him. But, and there was, and it was a Carolina player. Like, that's probably the same thing. There was a Packer, but that guy, whoever it was, was out of the end zone. Yeah, and like even if you would have caught it, wouldn't have counted.
Even without the interception, I think that might be the worst throw of his career. Just what a horrible experience. There was nothing redeeming about it. I think Kraft is probably gone for a long, long time. Um, yeah, it sucks.
Green Bay's not a Super Bowl contender, it sucks to admit, but I The coach is always going to hold them back. And I just. If this is the LaFleur experience, I think we're stuck because they're never bad enough to fire him and they're never going to be good enough to do anything significant. I don't know. With Ed Policy in there, that's a bit of a wild card.
Yeah, I feel like you're up. On the Super Bowl dream yet. I mean, no craft is a killer if he it's it sounds like he's done done. I thought that was a really good point by Jake, too. Like, where remember two years ago, three years ago, every week, Christian Watson would go down in, like, the first quarter, and LaFleur would go to the podium, and you'd be like, well.
Our offense was going to run through Christian Watson, so when he went down, The whole game plan was fucked and that was like kind of the same thing with it's like You have to. You kind of have to prepare for Everything, you know, as a football coach, injuries happen every single week to every single team.
So if Christian Watson goes down, somebody else has to step up. Matthew Golden, if Tucker Kraft goes down. It's the next man up. But it's always just like that's the thing with the floor, man, is He's just terrible at I think like I think usually the game plan's pretty solid. most weeks, but the in-game decision making and when he has to make adjustments.
It's brutal. And remember, like when we used to do this with Coach Bud all the time, he needs to make the proper adjustments. And it's like, well, what fucking adjustment do you want him to make, man? Right? But with the floor.
I mean, it's the same story every week. And every time they lose a game like this, I feel like I'm watching the same press conference. Like, it's a rerun, man. That's because here's the problem. LeFleur knows How this works.
He loses a game. He gets up there. He takes. Uh some accountability. Says, you know, we got to get better.
Deflects some of the other of the accountability. But he does not have any fear of anything. He's not getting fired. He's not getting fired at the end of the season. There's, you know, we could talk about hot seat, but it's like, well, only if the worst happens.
Maybe there's an injury now with Tucker Kraft and he'll get. He'll get the benefit of that. Or, you know, one more year with half-lead leading a Micah Parsons-led defense. He has no. And not, you know, I I've not liked being managed out of fear.
Okay, but I also don't think that you should work. Just thinking, oh, well, today's day seven of my job. I'm going to be here for 25 years. There's you've got to have Things you got to meet, you got to have performance reviews. Matt LaFleur is coaching like a guy who thinks he's got this job as long as he wants it.
Until that changes. That's a problem. I also want a bitch. About, and Mark, I'm gonna pick on you. He says Lions lost for God's sake, free pass.
I've seen a lot of other people say, like, we're still in first. And that kind of mentality, and this is what bothers me, because I used to think I could change people's behavior. I cannot.
So, I won't do it as aggressive, but I'm still going to say it. Is that that kind of mentality is bullshit? It's bullshit. It's only week nine. Like, you can't just, oh, they lost today.
You can say that if you We're in the future and know that they're going to win the Super Bowl, and we're acting stupid because we're mad about a loss. Yeah, they did lose. They lost a very good opportunity with the Lions losing to separate themselves. We can't just look around the rest of the league and be like, oh, thank God. You know, we need to win.
We need a number one C. We need home field advantage, which didn't. doesn't mean shit. But I'm I'm not any of these comments that are like Oh, we're still in first. We're still in first.
Yeah, okay. One time I was in a race, and after lap number one, I was in first place. And you know what I finished? Fucking dead last.
Okay? 'Cause I'm slow and I suck. That was a two-mile race. But you learn from that, and guess who doesn't? Matt LaFleur.
What does he need to learn? There's no pop quiz, there's no lesson. It's just All right, here's another A for you, sir. Yeah, he has no, there's no hot seat. There's no, like, his job security is.
Too secure right now. What can you do though to get a head coach motivated? And to be fair, like, you know, like, there's really There's not a whole lot of pressure, like. In the in the Green Bay media, right? Like if If Yeah, the Giants or the Jets, I mean, they're dog shit every year.
But if, like, a team like that loses a game like this to the Carolina Panthers. Then they're probably like calling and I don't wanna like I've already said a few things like he's going to make the beatwriters laugh and he'll get away with it. But there's also because of their Success He's not going to get a lot of pressure from media anywhere. He's not going to get a lot of luck. People aren't going to look at him.
People aren't gonna look at him and be like, oh, Matt LaFleur in the past, like the way that we look at other shitty coaches, because LaFleur's had enough success. How could they not like LaFleur in Green Bay? It's the same thing where Pittsburgh fans get mad about Mike Tomlin and we're like, how could you get mad about Mike Tomlin? They're like, we haven't won a fucking playoff game in a decade, dude. Of course.
The floor is a casual fan's dream. Like, you know, they just kind of watch the games, they don't really pay attention to what's going on. Be like, oh, we must have a great coach. They always win 12 games. Yeah.
Just no, but also I want to make a point. You talked about accountability. Is it really accountability when you go up to the podium and say, Yeah, this one's on me, guys? And then just like nobody questions you on anything. And it's just like, okay, well, we move on.
Yeah, he said it was on me. Yeah, he always says I fucked up, but no one says why. Why'd you fuck up though? Why were you bad in the red zone? Yeah, you do need to be better in the red zone, Matt.
So, why'd you call a fucking backward screen on third down? You know what I mean? Tie, you asked them. Why didn't you go for two? Yeah.
And he kind of was backed out and said You well you don't do that there.
Well then what what do you kick a field goal tie? I don't know. I would love to be like a reporter and be like, okay, so we go over this after every single loss. What can you do to improve as a head coach? Like, what did you do wrong this week?
Why did your team come out? Sleepwalking against the Carolina Panthers in a home game That's what I would just like to ask somebody, like, what adjustments? You know, we're not, look, we're not, and I don't want to be in that room. I hate being in those rooms. It's boring.
It sucks, you don't get it. And there's like a weird high school hierarchy where, like, the nerds rule, though, really sucks. And I don't Because a lot of times people are going to be like, We need someone in there to... Hold his ass to the fire and grill him and be like, hey, what the fuck, man? And what?
We're not asking for that. We're asking for Logical follow-ups instead of I take coach at his word. He said he needs to be better and I try I'm gonna he says he needs to be better. We're asking for journey. How do you plan to be better, coach?
Be a journalist. Uh Ian Rapapor says Tucker Kraft most likely tore his ACL. Which okay. We think it sucks. And there are some good journalists, but when guys like Matt Schneidman are trying to be celebrities rather than cover the fucking team.
Yeah, more clements. I don't know. I would not take anything to heart of any of those guys that went out for drinks with LaFleur. It's all bullshit. Like any of those guys, you got nothing that you can that I'm listening to you on.
Yeah. I just want to hear Clemens' reports on like who owns a horse during the offseason. That's really all I'm looking for. Packer fans, Packer B-riders drinking beer with LaFleur is like. comedians going to that festival in Saudi Arabia.
Jesus. You think Wafla is Waflora a drinker? I didn't even know he was a drink. He had a glass of wine, of course. Hey, let's all have beers.
I'll have a red. Fuck you. Yeah. Just like my respect for Bill Burr went away. Hey, you got the seltzer.
Pop that up again, Ben. Yeah, I actually enjoy mixing it with a little lemonade.
So kind of got a little more sweetness done. Half lemonade, half.
Well, he had sprite, but. We'll we'll accept it. Yeah. Yeah. Yanna stopped the robbery at a pick and save.
Did you hear that? Stephen. No, he said he did. Yeah. He just said he did.
I choked the guy and gave the lady her purse back. He'd be the only athlete where I'd believe it, though. I'd buy it, man. Like, that'd be the least surprising news of the day. He said something after a game recently.
He was like. I need to take it, I can reach higher levels. I'm going to take it to another level. And I'm sitting at my couch at home, like, How are you going to another level? You're one of the best players in the world.
Oh, that game yesterday was fixed, by the way, against the Kings. That was fixed. They're all fixed, yeah. Yeah, NBA's crooked as fuck. Whatever.
All right, I'm going to head out, guys. Hopefully, I'm hoping Q is in the waiting room because this show needs some rightful batshit crazy right about now.
So. Thanks, boys. Even with Horvat here? Yeah. Even with Horvot here.
Yeah, like actually, I think that would be a great combo. Q and Horvot. Question. I'm going to step out as well. All right, boys.
See ya. That's Ben and Jake. With the happy place hemp, I like that. Both it. Love weed too.
Yeah. All right. We're good. Anything else you want to make sure we express before I go watch this Bills Chiefs game that has no juice because the Bills are going to win in the regular season and the Chiefs will win in the playoffs? Yeah, you know, just like disappointing loss to a man, Carolina's 5-4.
Carolina. Yeah, they're not bad.
So what pisses me off though, man? is the upcoming schedule And I don't like the whole...
Well, Detroit lost, 'cause of what you said, Bart, you could have made up some ground. Like the Packers. I want home accuracy. the Packers. I want homefield advantage really bad, man.
I know we always do this shit. Where it's like We just need one of these at Lambeau. And then we get it at Lambeau and we lose to the Niners on like a blocked kick. But I really Like, let's say Detroit's the team to beat in the NFC. You want Jared Goff in Detroit in a dome, or you want him come into the cold weather?
I love but they beat us here too, remember that game? Yeah. Yeah, that was like Rogers was like. Like shit that year, though. Yeah, he was like, I don't want to play it.
Yeah, he looked like he didn't. Yeah, so he's like, I got a trip to Madagascar coming up. I ain't fucking going to the playoffs. Like, all these guys, man, I want Baker Mayfield at Lambo. I want Brock Purdy or Matt Jones at Lambo.
I want Goff at Lambeau. I want Stafford's old ass. Bryce Young at Lambo. Definitely not in Los Angeles. Yeah, in cold weather Lambo.
So I think like the number one seed is really important for this team. And this was a game that you should have won. then you're still a one loss team with one tie. 'Cause up next? Granted it's at home, you get Philadelphia, man, Monday Night Football.
Then it's the Giants on the road. Then it's Minnesota. Then it's Detroit. Then it's this Bears team. Then it's the Broncos on the road.
Then it's the Bears on the road. Then it's the Ravens with Lamar Jackson back. Then you close out on the road against the Vikings. I don't think the schedule is as easy as everybody thinks. And I think this is, honestly, I thought this was kind of like, I'm not going to say a must win game.
But you had to win. You didn't need style points. You didn't need to cover, but you had to beat the Carolina fucking Panthers. But it's like he doesn't want to win unless he wins in a specific way. That's my problem.
And now you lose Tucker Kraft and I know it's just like one guy. But man, I mean He was your number one option other than Romeo Dobbs. And also, I don't know that they beat Pittsburgh last week without him. Yeah, man. And he's like, like I said, I mean, he kind of like brings it in the locker room, one of those leaders.
That's a shitty injury. I still think they're a corner away. Like, I mean, Hobbes is no.
Well, I'm not expecting any trades. I mean, that's Tuesday. Probably not, but I mean like this year they kinda went all in making the deal for Micah Parsons. Aaron Banks, we didn't even get to him. He sucks when he is on the field, and then he gets hurt when he is on the field.
It's like. That was a terrible pickup. Hobbs was a terrible pickup. Hobbes would have been a great pickup if, like, Jair Alexander was still any good and still on the roster. And now we got to see him next week.
Where he belongs. He's. Jair, he just got traded today. Yeah, to Philly. Yeah, he's terrible.
But yeah, I just thought that this was one you really needed, to be honest. And I feel like everybody's going to be like, oh, well, Detroit lost and. It happens, it's the NFL any given Sunday, but like, no, fuck that shit, man. Like that was one that you should have had and you kinda needed, to be honest with you.
So Mark's saying, I don't get it. Detroit losing is good. Of course, it's good, but it'd be better if they won. Yeah. It doesn't excuse the fact that They lost.
Yeah. Yeah. Who'd you bet in? Did you tell? I like the Chiefs, by the way.
It's a 7-7 game. Did you do anything in this game? I picked the Bills because they always win in the regular season. They won in 21, 23, 24. And the Chiefs always win in the playoffs.
I think the Chiefs are about to just go on a run and maybe not lose until the Super Bowl. when they lose to the Green Bay Packers. What's Jay Sternberger doing? Do we still have his number? No, he was That's now.
Now. It's gonna be uh Luke Musgrave time, ain't it? Right. I got Tucker Kraft in my main league. Should I pick up Luke Musgrave?
Is Luke Musgrave even alive, bro? Like, what has he done this year? He had a couple nice catches when they needed him. His rookie year he had thirty four grabs, three hundred and fifty two yards and a touchdown. This year he's done Jack shit.
He's got six catches.
Well Yeah, I I think you probably should pick 'em up though. Hey uh All right, well, good to see you. That sucked. I thought we were going to be talking about a win, but hey, it happens. I'm going to go tweet at Matt Walflora a little bit and have some more drinks, I think.
All right. What time's that liquor store close? I got five hours. My wife wants to go out to dinner tonight, so. What I'm thinking about doing is just destroying like another six pack and then throwing it in the trash and taking the garbage out and then telling her, oh, I only had two.
and then going to dinner and ordering a bottle of red and just being super hungover tomorrow. I did that move so many times that Gotta know. I don't get to take out the trash anymore. She's like, no, I know. Seriously.
It's like, I try, like, I do things around here. And she's like, why did you take the garbage out? What do you mean? I'm just trying to help you out. Every time I dig out the garbage, it's like.
And then I take a pit stop to smoke a joint while taking it out too, so that's always a double whammy.
Alright anyway. Bring back Coach Mac. All right, see ya. The good old days. See ya.
Brian Horvat. I got Drew the Intern, which is not his name, but. Are you voice tracking? Yeah. I am for tomorrow.
Yeah. Just like the good old days. I was just about to log off, but uh we can talk for five or ten. Oh, yeah. I was just popping in.
You know, I watched the game. It was a bummer. It is what it is. Um I feel like I jinxed it a little bit on my show, which you can listen to Monday through Friday, 2 to 7, 96.1 in Fond du Lac. Um I said the Packers historically are not great against.
Bad teams, and I feel like I manifested it, and I want to apologize to the state of Wisconsin. Did you pick the uh did you pick the Panthers? No, I've I In in any predictions, I of course I picked the Packers, but I I did voice. My concern. For What?
tends to happen.
So basically I've just been shitting on LaFleur for an hour. That's fine. I think it's warranted. And I I think he deserves it. You know, maybe he should have been focused on Halloween a little bit.
Because he wasn't focused on the middle of the middle. Maybe he put too much pressure on the game. Right, right, because he didn't seem to be focused too much on getting there. Don't go in front. Right, right, go trick-or-treating.
So Yeah, you can't be too married in your work. You gotta have a good li uh work-life balance. You do. I've learned that in my in my aging. You know, I focus on work.
I try to be the best I can be, but I also need to be like ninety eight too. Like ni two percent of your life should be your work. Right. I agree with that. I agree with that completely.
But uh how you been, Bart? You look nice. I like your hat.
Well, I was all pumped to wear my throwback that I bought. Yeah. And the Packers fucking lost and looked like shit. I got this throw up. This is the first time I'm wearing this shirt.
I got this shirt from 1996. It's pretty nice and didn't bring any luck. It's a Super Bowl one. It's the division. Um The Central Division Champions shirt.
Any shirt that says NFC Central in any way is a keeper for me. Yeah, it's a good one. It's a good one. Any shirt that says that. I just picked it up at a vintage store.
That I want a gift card to. Infadi? Ash gosh. What was it? Plato's Closet.
01, no, no, I wish. 01 vintage. It's a newer place. It's really nice.
So, if you want some vintage buck stuff or package, they got a lot of it. It's pretty awesome. All right, I'll give them a call and see if they want to. Jump on the pod. Yeah, they should.
They're good dudes. But no, of course, I just wanted to pop in and say hello to my first radio mentor out there, Bart Winkler, best in the biz, the goat. Good to see you. Good to see you, man. All right.
I got to get back to work. No, okay. I'll be listening. I appreciate it.
Alright, see ya. Bye. Love Drew. That's true. All right, thanks, Ben and Jake, and all you guys in the comments, especially the person that's pretending to be Matt Lafthor's wife, and Drew and Horvat.
And everybody well the mm-hmm mm-mm this week. I could do a trade deadline thing if anything fucking sweet happens. Probably not. And maybe some picks with Horvot later in the week, too. Also, just a little Easter egg.
Probably going to be doing more pods in the future. All right. We'll see you later. Bye. Thanks for stopping into the Winklerverse.
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