NC State Senator Jim Perry on legalizing sports gambling

And a sports wagering bill hit the Senate floor today. Jim Perry from Lenoir is a state senator, and he joins us on the Adam Gold Show. Sir, first of all, thank you very much for your time.

I appreciate it. This has been a long process, and I know you have been in favor of legalized sports wagering in the state. What do you think has been the biggest obstacle to getting a bill passed? Well, that's a that's a great question. You know, obviously, there is already some competition out there, whether it be legal at one of the the Indian gaming operations, the tribal locations, or whether it be illegal. Right.

And you know, those those arms are long, especially with some involved with illegal gaming. I will say I've gotten a lot of questions about whether or not the the tribal organizations have been difficult to deal with. And I will say no, you know, we've been working on this for a few years.

The Catawba were not really involved on the front end, but the Eastern Band of the Cherokee were because they were already established. And they've actually been very reasonable in the conversations. I think something some ideas just take a time take time to, you know, sort of take root and become more accepted. I think as people understood that I can walk into their office with my phone or my laptop and open an account in five minutes and place bets that really, really shocked some of them.

And frankly, we had a lot of conversations over the last year just about the concept of freedom and free will and this is your money. And if you see it as entertainment, it's going on already, why wouldn't the state regulate it, make it available and help our sports teams here that are at a huge competitive disadvantage regarding salary cap issues if they don't have the same opportunities other states do. I was just curious if Tom Dundon or David Tepper have been blowing up phones at the state legislature because this is a would be a major major boon to their bottom line. Because I know for a fact I speak to Tom Dundon often, the owner of the Carolina Hurricanes.

They have plans all ready to go to put a spot inside PNC arena where you can place wagers on games. Jim Perry, state senator from Lenoir is joining us here on the Adam Gold Show. Would you consider this or the fact that we had to wait an additional year a bipartisan failure? Well, you know, I personally think that it should have passed last year. Still trying to figure out what exactly happened with that. You know, the General Assembly said politics do come into play and there's always some x-factors you're not aware of. You know, I think there was a lot of misinformation and emotion, you know, as an argument made on the floor about a point shaving scandal.

That was just absurd. If anything, that should lobby to have legal sports betting. You know, that's that's how you you find out when there's wrongdoing when you see those statistical anomalies and sophisticated organizations can certainly catch that. But, you know, whether or not someone places a bet in Roanoke Rapids or just over the line in Virginia on a North Carolina sports team is irrelevant. You know, there's bets on those teams every day in North Carolina, outside of North Carolina.

And I just feel like it's sticking your head in the sand and being caught in a bit of a time warp. Yeah, I'm not a sports bettor. I don't have that skill set. But, you know, I earned my money. And I think if I so choose to place a bet on sports, then, you know, I should be allowed to do that. Why should my neighbor get God gave me free will we've been spending three years talking about freedom in the state, and and how we're rebelling against so much government regulation. And we're talking about free will, but the first opportunity we have to take it from our neighbor.

We seem to be all too eager to do that. Jim Perry is the state senator from Lenoir, North Carolina joins us on the Adam Gold Show. The bill hit the Senate floor today. How long will this process take before it's actually voted upon?

And then I have another follow up to that. So House Bill 347. So my my dear friend in the House, Representative Jason Sain, Chairman Sain is actually running the bill. You know, I ran the bill last session, got it through the Senate, got held up in the House. So, you know, the decision was made that representative saying really needed to take a run at it, see if he could get it through the House.

He feels like he's got support this time. And, you know, they've really taken a lot of time on the front end. Folks like Don Waddell has spent a lot of time on it. You mentioned the hurricanes. You know, Fred Whitfield with the Hornets has spent a lot of time here.

He and James Jordan will be back this week. Really trying to help people understand the competitive disadvantage you put your teams in whenever, you know, if another team has a revenue source and it drives up the salary cap, that increases the expenses for our teams, but it doesn't give them a revenue source. So it puts them at a really big competitive disadvantage just based upon geography. And those guys have really spent a lot of time talking about it and educating members. I think you will see the bill marinate this week as we have conversations.

And then I think we should see movement next week. You mentioned a few things, and we're talking with Jim Perry, the state senator from Lenoir, North Carolina, here on the Adam Gold. So you mentioned a few elements. We have, like, there's a morality play against it. There is a nanny state type of an argument against it. And I think you raised very well basically a quality of life, an entertainment reason for it. But what I've never understood is the morality plays or the nanny state plays don't also go after why we allow people to drink.

Because alcohol, I mean, I may be wrong here, and I'm not sitting here, you know, armed with evidence other than I think I'm a smart guy, that alcohol has created way more problems for people than gambling has, gambling on sports. So why are we letting those things pass? That to me has always been the major, like, disconnect in this conversation.

Sure. And first of all, if you consider yourself to be a smart guy, you should go into politics, because, you know, we all think we're brilliant. And we have an opinion on everything, right? No, you know, and you have to be careful with that argument, because I will tell you, there are people walking around today that would absolutely go back to prohibition, even though it didn't work. And what's always confusing to me, it's the same people who, who yell loudly about freedom, and freedom this and freedom that the concern and listen, there are some sincerely held concerns. And I can appreciate that.

And I respect it. But you know, when you talk about just addiction overall, it's going to impact what one to 2% of the population regardless of what the addiction is focused on. It's a it's a disorder, right? People have addiction issues. But when we start talking about societal impact, you mentioned alcohol. Well, I will tell you nothing, nothing has broken up more homes, cause more financial devastation, or more more deaths, you know, breaking up families, then obesity related heart disease. But we're not banning biscuits and barbecue, you know, we're not about to do that or mandate that you exercise and maintain a certain weight.

So if we just want to do it mathematically, that's the largest impact on society is obesity related heart disease. So, you know, you can make a lot of those arguments. But at the end of the day, for me, this is about freedom.

This is about limited government. I don't think it's as big a deal as some others do. They feel that way. My thoughts are okay, fine. You should not gamble. If you are against it. I think that's fine. Make that make the choice. I have one more question. But I dare you to run on an anti barbecue and biscuit platform.

I dare you. I'm from the land of good barbecue. There's no way I 100% agree. All right, now, final thing, because this is a concern for I know a lot of people is that the money that the state can get in terms of tax revenue, and then the distribution of that money is way overstated. What are the expectations for that? And is there a state out there that is sort of the model? I know not And is there a state out there that is sort of the model? I know New Jersey has been and it's about this pretty similar state population to North Carolina. New Jersey has done extremely well in terms of tax revenue. I don't know about the distribution of it, but I know in terms of getting tax revenue out of this. So what are the expectations for that?

And is there a state model? So what I would say to that is people make those comments having no idea how the tax rate will end up or how it will be structured. We already know that there are some folks who would file a lawsuit just to jam this issue up if it passed.

There is no case law. There's no precedent anywhere that says we can't have a privilege tax on sports betting, but someone would file a lawsuit. So it's very possible this could end up as an excise tax structured just as many are up and down the East Coast.

There's absolute clarity on an excise tax. Based on the most recent projections that I have, depending upon where we set the tax rate, I'd say that to the state it's probably $45 to $50 million. It's not a ton of money just on the taxes. But what it opens up and what people don't appreciate is the competitive forces for those teams that are here and have a huge economic impact. For sales tax in the area, you can now monetize locations that empty during the week, nothing going on or on weekends when there's no athletic events. It's pretty short-sighted to just think about that direct tax benefit. It's about the economic activity, the quality of life, and just the fact of not criminalizing something that the average North Carolinian enjoys. Why is it the right of your neighbor to tell you how to spend your money? I just don't think that's right.

I will say this. Anytime you see legislation, and we get all these folks from the cheap seats and the peanut gallery saying, oh, they should have done this, they should have done that, you pass the legislation that you can get the votes to pass. You don't pass perfect legislation. So, you know, we hear a lot of opinions about what should be done. At the end of the day, Chairman Sane, Representative Jason Sane, is going to pass the legislation through the House that he feels he can get the votes for. It's not a perfect process, but that is how it works.

Jim Perry, State Senator from Lenoir, a lover of fine barbecue and biscuits, because that's your platform. You don't need to say anything else. Thank you very much for your time.

We'll check in again if we need to and if you're willing. All right, thank you. Have a great day.

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Philosophical question, Dennis. Before we start getting into the Blue Devils ACC Championship, does the NCAA tournament begin tomorrow or does it begin Thursday? I say it begins tomorrow. Games are being played in the NCAA tournament tomorrow, right?

Games are being played. Okay. Yet there's no excitement for tomorrow.

So- Sure, that's fine. Does it really be... So I understand what you're saying and technically, yes, it begins tomorrow. I will say though, it really truly tips off Thursday. Yes. Thursday noon. That's when it really gets going. Yeah, we are going to have in the near future a 90 team NCAA tournament.

Yeah. We're going to have that. It's a lot of games in Dayton. Yeah, they won't all be in Dayton.

My guess is that Dayton will... I don't know how they're going to do it, but I think the better way to do it would be to simply have these Tuesday and Wednesday games at the sites that these teams would be advancing to. That would make the most sense rather than... Because we're not going to have just four games over two nights. If we go to a 90 team field, we're going to have like 16 games or whatever the number is to get to a 90 team tournament. We're going to have so many more games, you can't do that all in Dayton.

There's just no way to do it. Oh, I know, but I just love the fact that it starts in Dayton. It would be... Well, Dayton's wanted it. I mean, Dayton's been...

It's been great. Year in and year out, you know you're going to have two double headers? Yeah. It's sold out all the time. That town shows up for it.

Oh, absolutely. Look, there's a lot of places that would. You can go to old school NCAA tournament hotbeds. Dayton, you can go to Ogden, Utah.

You could go to Boise. I mean, they used to have first and second rounds in Missoula, Montana. Yeah, they did.

I'm not even joking. They did. Right?

Far off, you know, corners of the world. So, it would be great if they wanted to do something like that on a permanent basis. But with as many games we're going to have, they're going to make it easy on themselves. You're just going to go to, all right, these games are feeding this region, so that's where we're going to go.

And now, whatever. But even though technically it starts tomorrow with two games tomorrow and two games on Wednesday, the tournament itself, the excitement of it starts on Thursday at noon. Straight up Thursday at noon.

That's when the excitement really hits. By the way, no surprise, Duke plays on CBS Thursday evening, 7-10. So, early prime time game.

Not quite prime time, but early prime time game. Duke in the first window Thursday night. And that'll get us to the Blue Devils. Because, look, I know they won the ACC Championship. And what they did was, the development of this team over the last month and a half of the season was fantastic.

100% fantastic. And full marks to the coaching staff and to the players for sticking with it. I don't know how many people recognize just how fragile that team dynamic is when you've got a bunch of highly recruited, highly touted players who have all been the guys on their team. With the one exception, I guess, being Mark Mitchell, who played with Grady Dick from Kansas. They were high school teammates, right?

So, Grady Dick was the guy. Because that guy is just an absolute killer. He's an awesome, awesome player. I love watching him play. Mitchell is a very good player. But it was clear, he wasn't the guy on that team.

If he was, I'd be surprised. Anyway, my overarching point is that you've got a whole bunch of highly recruited players all coming to Duke, all thinking that they're going to be the next greatest thing. And boy, their development was certainly not a straight line up. They had some bottoming out to do. And they got through it. And I think full, absolute full credit to the players for sticking to it, for the coaching staff, for, I mean, I'm not really all that smart about these matters. I'm sure they adjusted their mindset, their expectations, and their approach to how this season was going to go. But they won the ACC tournament. And I'm told that it was the greatest feat ever done in mankind. Mere mortals would have just absolutely crumbled at the notion that you might have to play number five in the ACC, then number one, then number two.

How do you do that? I don't know. That's the way it was phrased to me. And the other people made it seem like Duke essentially won a lower tier YMCA second grade league. Because the ACC was so bad that it's not an accomplishment to win it. Of course, the truth is somewhere in the middle. It wasn't a gauntlet, but it also was not meaningless.

And the truth is, the reason why I think in large part, people viewed the ACC being down was because Duke wasn't up. Now is the time to shop and save on Amana appliances at Lowe's. Get deals on select appliances, plus free delivery on items $396 and up. And you can bring your home the Amana appliance suite, featuring a refrigerator with adjustable shelving and reversible doors to fit any space for under $2,000. Head to your local Lowe's store or visit us online at Lowes.com to save big on Amana appliances today. Only at Lowe's.

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Savings off sale and clearance prices exclusions apply. See, that's the way it works in college. If you have a football conference and your football brands are not good, like if Alabama football one year, rather if SEC football one year is led by Kentucky and Missouri and South Carolina and Alabama, LSU, and Georgia are, you know, eight and four. People go, what's wrong with the SEC?

We can't look at it the other way. Wake Forest won the ACC way back in the day. And I'm not saying it was a vintage ACC, but because Wake Forest won, it was reason to slam the league when maybe Wake Forest is just good.

We don't have to get into the literal parts of that argument, but you understand what I'm getting at. The ACC wasn't a vintage league in large part because the two biggest brands, Duke and North Carolina, were not vintage versions of themselves. As it turned out, Duke ended up being pretty doggone good. Had to change the way they played, had to change the way they played offense, had to change the way they played defense.

And I give them 100% credit for getting all that done. Does that mean that they're going to be huge successes in the NCAA tournament? I wish it translated.

I wish we knew it would translate, but what we know is that it doesn't. It doesn't mean it won't work, but it doesn't. I think Duke was probably seated appropriately at number five. If they don't win the ACC tournament, they are probably a six.

But there isn't that big a difference between being a five and being a six. You're playing somebody who can beat you. This just in, Oral Roberts can beat Duke. I'm not saying they will.

I'm just saying they can. It would not be a monumental upset. Duke is a six-point favor over Oral Roberts. That's it. It's not a lot, right? No. If Duke and Oral Roberts were scheduled to play in November at Cameron Indoor Stadium, I'll bet you that spread is 15.

Probably. Right? That's a loseable game for Duke. I think they're seated appropriately. J. Billis from ESPN thinks differently. I thought the three-line was appropriate for Duke. Not just because of how they're playing, but the fact that when they have a full complement of players, they're 17-1.

And that speaks really well. You can take injuries into account. You have to account because the teams they're going against are the ones that are getting jobbed there.

Duke's not getting jobbed. It's the ones that have to play a better team than they're seated. But they got a good draw, I believe, because Tennessee without Zakai Ziegler is not the same Tennessee team that warranted that seating.

All of that is true. Injuries, momentum, matchups all play a role in the NCAA tournament. Here's John Shire, the head coach, on what it means to win the ACCs. It's pretty surreal. You know, for me, it was emotional after we won.

And like you mentioned, we were up on stage and was just looking around and see all the Duke fans. They stuck with us. You know, we've had to grow up this year.

It hasn't been smooth sailing. Most seasons aren't, but especially this year with such a young team, I'm just proud of the perseverance, the way they've stuck with it and stayed together. It's not easy to do and they've done a great job. And to see them be rewarded with a championship is special. First of all, I know that this was not processed in this manner by, oh, I shouldn't say by Duke fans, who knows how it was processed. Last year, Hubert Davis, year one, we realized that they went through some struggles during the course of the season. But his patience, their perseverance, Brady Mannix's emergence, and all of a sudden they win at Cameron, spoil Coach Key's senior coach case senior night, go on, get to the final four, get a breath away from winning the championship and beat Duke twice in the two most important games Duke was going to play. The single two most important games Duke was going to play that year, the home finale for K and the game in the final four.

And they won both of those games. Hubert Davis was hailed like, you go follow that, John Shire. So it didn't look like it was going to end up the way it ends up during the course of the season for Duke. And I don't know that anybody really talked about the following the act of first year Hubert Davis.

Here's John Shire in year one. That's a tough act to follow all of that. And I don't, I don't know that he has gotten to the level of where Hubert Davis took Carolina a year ago. But that's a significant accomplishment. Davis engineering a win at Cameron on Coach K's senior night is in and of itself a significant victory. Then Davis taking that team to the final four and a few baskets away from the national championship.

That is a significant accomplishment. Well, John Shire just directed Duke to a significant accomplishment, which is significant. It grows in significance or pales in significance based on your perspective of what a down ACC team ACC season means or what value you give to playing numbers five, one and two in ACC seeds at the ACC tournament.

I don't know. I think Duke had a great year. And whether they won the ACC or not, that was a pretty good start to the John Shire era. And let's see a how they do in this tournament. And let's see a how they do in this tournament. And honestly, anything would surprise me. Anything would not surprise me rather want to say that properly. Duke could lose to oral Roberts, they could get to the final four.

Yeah, I won't be shocked by any of it. Any of the Blue Devils are as every other team in this field vulnerable to the matchup. Can oral Roberts beat them? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Or oral Roberts can. Will they? I don't know. Probably not. Probably not. Should be a fun tournament though. Yeah. I mean, it's more unpredictable now than it's ever been.

Exactly. I don't know if the basketball is going to be great, but I anticipate that we will see a lot of silly things happen. This week at Macy's discover great deals on spring updates for you and your home refresh your look with Michael Kors handbags, shoes, and more 250 and under get 50 to 70% off suits, lasers, and pants for him and shops select great value. Small appliances, 99 95 and under plus get contact-free curbside pickup or pickup in store today at Macy's details at macy's.com slash pickup savings off sale and clearance prices exclusions apply.