Classified Documents Found At VP Pence's Home

Today on Sekulow, Vice President Harris rewrites the Declaration of Independence and rips Ron DeSantis. We'll talk about that more today on Sekulow. Welcome to Sekulow.

We're taking your phone calls 1-800-684-3110. So Vice President Harris, she's at an event marking the 50th anniversary of Roe vs. Wade, even though it's been overturned. But they're still doing those events, of course, trying to support the Biden agenda, which the latest move has been, of course, the medicated abortions, which we'll get into in just a minute. Because she also took a shot, as we said in the tease, against Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, because the way those are being now prescribed by telemedicine, or even text medicine, and then distributed by the major places like Walgreens, CVS, and your right aides. But I want to start with this, because it's just interesting how they're afraid, even when talking about our Declaration of Independence, which is what she was citing in this speech to this pro-abortion group, and notice what she leaves out. And this is just telling to me how much they've lost on one issue when it comes to abortion, which is whether or not this is a human being.

Take a listen. America is a promise. It is a promise of freedom and liberty. Not for some, but for all. A promise we made in the Declaration of Independence, that we are each endowed with the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

So there you go right there. Did you notice she was missing a key, the key beginning, that your kids learned at school? Hopefully they're still learning that at school. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. She's afraid to say life in front of a group of pro-abortion activists. I thought it wasn't a human life that they were destroying.

Here's what they said. This is what the founders said. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It starts with, which makes sense, that among your unalienable God-given rights are the right to life. Which of course she eliminates there, because are you kidding me?

It's the last thing you want to stay at a pro versus weight function. But this is how they rewrite history. It's actually pathetic. But I want your reaction to this, because this is rewriting the U.S. Declaration of Independence.

So give us a call at 1-800-684-3110, 800-684-3110. The reaction to it has been pretty swift. Members of Congress are saying everything, some saying, hey, Vice President, it's life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

We have the right to life. Others are saying, I guess it's easy to rewrite our founding principles when you need to fit your own narrative. And another one says, has the Vice President ever actually read the Declaration of Independence?

This tells you kind of the nature of the scope. But this is a total rewrite of American history. I mean, it was really, it's pathetic when they start doing this. Yeah, that's right. And we won't take your calls on this.

1-800-684-3110. It was done intentionally. This was not Vice President Harris stumbling around.

No. And deleting this herself. The speech writer deleted that, because they knew her saying right to life, which is associated with the pro-life movement, but and the idea that, again, that this is somehow, they've lost on that issue that it's not an infant. You know, even when we were talking about the Born Alive Act, they didn't say fetus.

They said infant. Right. So, you know, on that issue, while there's a lot of work to do, and certainly in the states and state courts, state legislatures, ballot initiatives, state constitutional amendments, of course, some Democrats would like to codify Roe vs. Wade. They, of course, don't have the votes for that right now, because the House went Republican. They don't have enough to get through the threshold in the Senate.

But they've talked about that idea. And we have a lot of work to do left on life, because Roe vs. Wade opened up an entirely new battlefield, which was taking it out of the Washington, D.C. in the courts and putting it in your state institutions. So if you're taking your phone calls, 1-800-684-3110, and remember to support the work of the ACLJ right on the forefront of all these issues involving life, you go to ACLJ.org and donate today. We'll be right back. Take care. Alright, welcome back to Sekulow.

1-800-684-3110, if you want to join us on air. Vice President Harris didn't stop with rewriting the Declaration of Independence and leaving out the right to life at the beginning of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, which was intentionally done. This was not her even like pausing and saying, I don't want to say that line in front of this pro-abortion group. This was done by the speech writer, because it would be off-putting at a pro-abortion event to say there's a right to life.

Why would it be? Because they know that the medical and science, you don't have to believe in enabling rights from even God to know that there's medical science that proves there's a human life there. There doesn't have to be a religious conviction anymore, which has hurt the pro-abortion movement. So now they've really changed from, it's not really about the child's life. It's about how women will be criminalized, and you could go to jail for having a miscarriage.

We heard that in Kentucky with the ballot initiative there, which of course would never happen under the ballot initiative, and that wasn't the point of it at all. But that's the kind of, they love misinformation, disinformation, they say we're the ones responsible for that. It's actually they who go out, especially the abortion, we call it abortion distortion, and make up basically straight up lies, spread it around. They target churches, target evangelical communities, where they know that the pro-life viewpoint is popular, and try to scare people, just thinking, you know, if you had IVF and it failed, you will go to jail. Or if you had a miscarriage, you will be judged why did you have a miscarriage, and you will go to jail, the woman who was pregnant.

So there was that aspect. She also took a shot at Ron DeSantis without saying his name, because she talked about what he described as the free state of Florida, and how he has restricted the major pharmacy retailers in Florida to providing patients with the abortion pill, RU-46. It's not plan B. RU-46 induces a miscarriage. In the past, you had to go to the abortionist and actually stay there while you took the medication to make sure you didn't have serious complications on your life. So what he's saying is I'm protecting Floridians so they don't go home and take this, what they know is going to induce a miscarriage, and everyone's going to react different to that. So when you think about this move by the FDA, think about this, CVS and Walgreens and Rite Aid, which is part of Walgreens now, it's just under 20,000 that are dispensing RU-46 by prescription through telemedicine.

So no meeting, doing it at home. That means there's 20,000 new abortion clinics in America today. Yep. What's interesting here, though, is you've got to go back to the fundamental, I want to play this soundbite again by, I think this is important, by the Vice President of the United States, Vice President Harris, you need to hear what she said. America is a promise. It is a promise of freedom and liberty.

Not for some, but for all. A promise we made in the Declaration of Independence, that we are each endowed with the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Okay, let me break this down and get Cece how to respond. So let's go through what she said. First of all, she totally misquotes the Declaration of Independence, which she says, it's not just some, but for all. That's not a quote from the Declaration of Independence.

That's how they view it. All, of course, does not include, in their view, the unborn child. Then they say, we are each endowed with the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Leaving out the word by the Creator, we are endowed by the Creator. And then, of course, with certain unalienable rights, these are rights that can't be removed. They're unalienable rights.

That among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And, of course, they leave out Creator and life because it doesn't fit the narrative. No, this is more abortion distortion. She absolutely takes out the right to life that we all know exists in the Declaration of Independence, and then she's trying to resurrect the fake right to abortion. And, once again, the right to abortion, which the Supreme Court has rightly said is not a constitutional right, it's not a fundamental right under our Constitution, a right to be protected, she resurrects that as the premier right while destroying the right to life. And, of course, because it doesn't fit the abortion distortion narrative. You know, it's interesting, Jordan, though, you brought up what Ron DeSantis is doing in the RU-486 issue, which was very controversial when RU-486 came out because it was this abortion pill, but it did require you going to a woman, going to a Planned Parenthood clinic, or an abortionist. They, you know, the left is trying to do it with, and all the rules on medical care are put aside when it comes to abortion. So, it's not, again, to say that there are now 20,000 new abortion clinics operating in America, and they're operating in places we all utilize and you might not even think about, and they're doing it under the guise of, well, people had a prescription, we prescribed legal medication, it's legal medication. But this was never done through telemedicine, and again, it can be a very dangerous medication to take because what it does, it 100% induces a miscarriage, and everybody has a different response to that. So, you don't just pop this pill and say, okay, it's done.

It's done. So, we've represented pharmacists and have taken cases to trial, where we've represented pharmacists that for the right of conscience, they did not want to fulfill the prescription for this particular drug, and we actually got a jury verdict and punitive damages in a case. Frank Mannion tried it, the senior counselor of the ACLJ, a number of years ago, and so medical professionals have said, and pharmacists included within medical professionals, they're not going to do this on this particular medication. But again, it's an interesting, it is an interesting issue, but the important part of this is they left out the right to life in the description. It's abortion distortion, absolutely, and you see abortion distortion, too, because what do the pro-abortionists always say? Oh, we're so concerned about the health of the woman. Oh, we're concerned about the woman's rights. But then you take this drug, methaprestone, which has terrible side effects, including death, and they're ready to just dole that out with absolutely no oversight from a medical doctor. So do they really care about the health or the life of the woman?

No, they do not. They're always just about killing the baby and abortion. That's their bottom line. I think the whole issue, Jordan, is we're in a very unique spot in history. You've had the constitutional right to Roe v. Wade, recognized in Roe v. Wade, overturn as not being found in the Constitution, that opposition to abortion is not equal protection violation against women, and then you had this rush of these initiatives in the states, which did not do well for the pro-life cause. They were confusing.

It was not the right language. And you just were up at the pro-life event we conducted in our office where we talked about this, and strategy here is very, very important moving forward. It is, because it was easy to all unite. There's many pro-life groups, and then there's organizations like ours that fight the legal battle on it, whether it's pro-life speech, pro-life pregnancy centers, fighting against Roe v. Wade for decades. And then what we've said is we've all got to come together. I said this in the remarks of that group, and that we've got to agree on what laws we want to support, what kind of constitutional amendments.

They need to be similar. Of course, tailored to states, so they're going to be unique because of different state constitutional issues. Some may go to court, but if we rush without agreement and we don't use all of our resources, and I'm talking economic. In many of these states that had this initial round of ballot initiatives, we were being outspent four to five to one. We were doing polling on it on ACLJ action, and the polling inside the evangelical church we were losing. We're talking about evangelicals, weekly church attendees who vote Republican and consider themselves to be pro-life were voting against the constitutional amendment in Kentucky because of the misinformation on IVF and mis— Actually, a lot of it was if you have a miscarriage, they're going to investigate why you had a miscarriage, which I don't think has ever been done before in the United States. But that's enough to scare people out of—listen, you had some of them in other states. I read some of these.

We read a number of the state attorneys. Was it a yes vote or was it a no vote? I mean, that was part of the problem.

Well, and I think that was clearly what they won on. Confusion. Confusion on we don't know what we're voting on, confusion on, they don't know what it says, and they just aren't going to vote for something if they're confused on it. And I think Planned Parenthood and the pro-abortionists really capitalized on that. We've got breaking news.

Go ahead. Yes, there's breaking news. We've talked about the weaponization of these institutions, whether or not Joe Biden's going to end up saying that. Now they're reporting Vice President Pitts was it a dozen? A dozen classified documents found at the—his Indiana—last week, the FBI got possession of him. Don't know if they searched the house.

His Indiana home, which is a new residence since he left office and they moved your document. This is what I'm talking about here is I think when Joe Biden weaponized this as a long-term politician— Be careful what you wish for. Because I—and all these politicians coming out, I feel like if I get to dig through their boxes with the FBI, I will find something they shouldn't be in possession of. And I don't think, again, it's not always intentional to do anything wrong.

And I think that should really be the standard. Were you using this for your own gain? Were you selling this information? Because if not, it's a document dispute. And with these people who have just left office, unlike when Vice President Biden left, which was years, people like Pitts, Trump, I think you should have time to work with the National Archives to figure out what you have, what you don't have. Yeah, but this is—now they're going to be able to get off and provide it for a while. But they're going to go to everybody now. And now it's going to be— Like Pitts and who's next? They're just going to go down a list.

Exactly right. All right, we're taking your calls on this, folks. Are they going to go to Hillary Clinton? Well, they're—yeah, right.

She bleeds my head. Maybe, who knows? 800-684-3110, 800-684-3110. Support the work of the ACLJ at ACLJ.org. Back with more, including phone calls. We're going to bring Andy Economo in next to discuss the latest developments here. Back with more in a moment.

And welcome back to Secchio. So we are discussing the breaking news politically because CNN just broke. I mean, so if you're not watching CNN, I'm not sure it's broken anywhere else yet. But it's coming through the wires now that Vice President Pitts, which I'm sure a lot of politicians are doing right now, had his lawyers go through documents that were in his home, which is a new home he purchased after leaving office back in his home state of Indiana. And they found about a dozen of these classified documents. We don't know the level of classification.

We don't know how they got there yet. But we do know, unfortunately for Vice President Pitts, he was on the record saying, I don't have any of these. He went on TV, went on interviews saying, kind of attacking Trump, saying, you know, I didn't have this in my possession. But it's what I said yesterday about Joe Manchin. I said, I wouldn't even say that if I was Joe Manchin because he's been in the Senate so long that if I – I feel like if I could comb through all these people's offices, Republican or Democrat, I would find documents that I could make an argument they shouldn't have. Sure is looking that way.

So why have we weaponized it? Andy just walked in. We were going to originally talk about this arrest of the counterintelligence special agent. We'll save that for another day this week, which is interesting because he was one of the ones behind the whole Russia collusion narrative that the FBI was involved in. Now he's been indicted. But now we've got this lawyer for former Vice President Pitts discovered about a dozen documents. They're marked as classified at Pitts' home in Indiana. He has turned the classified documents over to the FBI. The FBI and the Justice Department National Security Division have launched a review of the documents and how they ended up in Pitts' house in Indiana. So again, you know, these are not being handled just with the National – at this point, people are – the National Archives is like the repository, but everybody's worried about the FBI. And then these politicians, and that means all of them, and includes Mike Pence is a friend of ours. Of course, we represented the former President.

Joe Biden's the current President. They're all making these – they make these global statements, exactly what you said, Jordan, where the search is complete, we have nothing else, and then this happens. And they're almost disqualifying themselves going forward. I mean, this is the problem with all this.

Well, it is, and that's exactly what Jordan said. These people have been in government a long time in different offices, senators, representatives, congressmen, and so forth, and they probably all had access to secret or top secret documents or classified materials, and then they come out and they make these statements, oh, we never had them, we never touched them, we never saw them, we never brought them to – after we had them in Congress. And it turns out they had them in their houses, and they're making these broad statements that they did not have in them, in their possession, which turned out not to be the case. But also, this could be as benign as the vice President asked his national security advisor for a memo on something, and he got it, and it was classified at the time of the marking, and who knows if it was declassified. It may have been declassified at this point. I mean, we know that – Well, Rick was in charge of that, but for now – Yeah, Rick just said, I mean, he came in and that's why he was acting.

He didn't go through the confirmation process. His job was, of course, to get the intelligence to be back in order because it had gone so off the rails. And the second part of his job was to tackle this overclassification problem that he's discussed, which is that they overclassify too much of their mistakes, and then they keep it from the American people and Congress, who has oversight over them, so that there's an overclassification problem.

My issue has been from the beginning. But they're all making these giant statements, though. These should be document disputes, but everyone knows now that even Republicans who have tried to pile on President Trump, now it is backfiring on them. So you have to be very careful if you were an administration official at levels – and listen, if you're cabinet level or vice President or – that I think you take Rick's approach, which is, listen, this should be document issues with National Archives.

There's overclassification. Presidents could declassify. It means Vice President Pence could have had these declassified.

We don't know, and he likely – obviously, though, what everybody's doing is having their attorneys go through their paperwork documents right now. You're not kidding. You're not kidding. Now, you talked about the weaponization of the FBI.

I do think it's worth tying in, Andy. This arrest – indictment of the special agent who was charged with counterintelligence out of the New York City Bureau of the – Federal Bureau of Investigation, who was one of the agents on the Trump-Russia collusion Bob Mueller issues that we handled, and now he has been indicted. What has happened here? Well, what has happened is that you've got corruption in the highest levels of government. This man was a counter – he was the special agent in charge – McGonigal is his name – special agent in charge of the counterintelligence division of the FBI's New York field office. That's pretty high.

That is one of the highest positions. He's got access to classified information, too, and he had that classified information, but this is corruption in all phases of government, and they're slowly being exposed for what they are. So these people should not make these broad statements, oh, you had it and you're irresponsible, when it turns out you had it and you're irresponsible in terms of holding classified information and documents.

Jordan? Yeah, I mean, this is – I think, again, what we saw is we saw that when you weaponize this and you think, oh, we're just going to go after him, we're going to use this to go after President Trump, and we're going to somehow make him – disqualify him from future office, disqualify him from running, then it affects Joe Biden, and we're not done there. I mean, the special counsel has even started. We know other properties are being searched, and they keep finding more documents every time they do. Now it's hit Vice President Pence, who was trying to distance himself from President Trump and has created his own political machine to do that, and was on the record said, he has repeatedly said he did not have any classified documents in his possession. So, again, one is, before you say those statements, make sure – Don't say those statements.

How about that? And then especially because at this point we know that when you're that soon out of office, you're still dealing with it. And you don't know what's classified and what's been declassified? And who put what in a box?

These guys are not boxing up their own paperwork. No, so I'm not blaming the Vice President. I'm not blaming any of them. You need to be careful with the words now. Yeah, the words – well, I think you've got to be careful with the words, and you better – I think you've got to better take proactive aspects of this, because we got an intro.

Sean and Rumble said this. I feel like this all just needs to stop. There would be enough now to warrant all of these – everybody being searched and raided.

And here's the thing. The truth is it's because of the weaponization of the Bureau that you're taking a document request, and now it's national news, and it's breaking in, and now they can go after Mike Pence. So this way they go off with Joe Biden for a little while, until he finds more documents in his other location.

Right, so it's going to be this constant back and forth and back and forth. And they're going to use Pence, who is seen as, you know, as this more less chaotic and, of course, is not very popular with the MAGA world. And they're going to use him to say, well, this is a Vice President – former Vice President, too. So he is more of the apple-to-apple comparison to when Joe Biden had these documents.

Right, so he didn't have the – Mike Pence didn't have the authority to declassify. But if you're running for President of the United States right now, here's some free legal advice, in my view. Check your documents.

Get your lawyer to check your documents and what you got. Because this is going to become the issue, certainly a issue, in the primaries. Well, because Biden and the Democrats and the bureaucracy in Washington decided to raid Mar-a-Lago. Yes, and that changed the whole debate. You made a criminal investigation.

And when you do that, then you've got to – that applies to you, it applies to everyone. And so I don't know that the American people care this much. I mean, they care about our national security. But if you made it a document dispute, this would not be breaking news for anybody. No, but – They decided to change this into a criminal matter, into a place where you're going to raid a former President's home.

Now you're searching – you got 13-hour searches at the current President's home. Now you have the Vice – former Vice President Pence, and he's having his lawyers do what Joe Biden's lawyers did. I mean, this to me is the entire problem. What I talked about is that we've given way too much power to this bureaucracy in Washington. The Democrats thought that's a great idea because they love them more than they love Republicans.

But here's this. They love power more than they love either of them. They want to be in charge. Jim Comey thought he was God, thought he was the real protector of the free world. That's not how our Constitution is set up.

Our elected leaders who take the oath, they are in charge ultimately of protecting our constitutional freedoms and our country and our national security. We're going to talk more about this in the second half of the hour because the ACLJ has taken action on the National Archives. We submitted the FOIA request and have already gotten confirmation of expedited review. Support the work of the ACLJ so we can keep doing this.

ACLJ.org. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow.

Welcome back to Sekulow. We are taking your calls too and we're taking your calls to the new issue. We're breaking news right now.

And it's 1-800-684-3110. And I actually have a question to those of you out there. The breaking news is that now Mike Pence has come out and said he's found a dozen classified documents, we don't know what level, we don't know what they're about, at his home in Indiana. So not at an office, not at a storage facility. He had his attorneys obviously go through this. It was not just on a whim. Now he, unfortunately for Mike Pence, and again it's not at will because I think this whole thing is absurd, but he came out and tried to distance himself from President Trump and he said multiple times on the record, he said, I don't have any classified documents in my possession.

So he was inaccurate there. And I think, again, if you're going to make this a disqualifying issue, if you think that you can jump on this, even as another Republican who's maybe challenging President Trump, I'm not saying it's you need to vote for President Trump because of this, but they tried to disqualify him on this and now it's all, I mean, it's all coming back to everybody. These are people who have less of an argument to make about having these in their possession than a former President. Like we've said about Vice President, it was Vice President Biden who had these.

It was Vice President Pence. And again, if he had not come out and said in the media a bunch that he didn't have these, I don't know it would have been as big of a news deal. But my question to folks is, do you think this disqualifies Mike Pence? More so than President Trump in a sense because President Trump hasn't said this should disqualify me. Mike Pence has kind of said he's indicated that this is somehow not. He thought he didn't have them.

Like you said, he didn't pack this up himself. But he did go on the record to try to distinguish himself. I don't understand why they're going on the record on that. Because they're trying to run against Donald Trump.

Okay, well. But Donald Trump doesn't have a high ground in this other than he was the President and had declassification abilities. Which his lawyers have never submitted in court.

But there is a difference. The problem is the former President, like the current President, had authority to declassify. When Joe Biden was Vice President, he did not have that authority. Mike Pence did not have that authority. But why are they making these giant pronouncements? We could play it.

I mean, I think to be fair, we have to play it. Did you take any classified documents with you from the White House? I did not. Do you see any reason for anyone to take classified documents with them leaving the White House? Well, there'd be no reason to have classified documents, particularly if they were in an unprotected area. You know, the question was, did you take, his answer could have been still been no.

I didn't take these ages. But they showed up somehow. Here's the, Logan hopped in. Yeah, so on the media side of this, I mean, they're obviously, you know, CNN breaks in. It's going to take the attention off of Joe Biden. The FBI will end up at his house. Now we have a President and a former vice President and the current President with FBI at their homes. And the VP.

Former VP. What it does is actually push the theory that I said yesterday they were going to start pushing of this document spillage of this overall spillage that happens when you are at this level. So if you're this level of being a President or vice President, likely you're going to have some classified documents that somehow made its way into your residency. So what this does is definitely to me, this actually downplays the Biden situation. It does downplay the Trump situation, but they need that to happen for Biden to get through this. So now you're saying, well, everyone, now it's going to seem like everyone's done it.

And the truth is probably when you start looking through it, they probably all do. So what do you do, very quickly, Andy, what do you do if you're Merrick Garland? Right now? There you go. Another one? Yeah, we're going to have another special counsel.

I mean, we had one from Trump. How about just saying, okay, let's make these document requests just to document dispute and get all this stuff. Which is what we should have done in the first place and not aggravated this and escalated it. They allowed the agency, they empowered the agency, and then the agency does what it does.

And that is it weaponizes itself. If you think that you rightly have it, you can go to civil court. You could go to court over that. You don't have to go to criminal. It doesn't have to be a criminal matter, but they made it a criminal matter for Donald Trump. And that's why I say the FBI is going to be at Mike Pence's offices and homes and everybody. Again, because they set that standard for Trump, then they did it to Biden. So of course they're going to do it to Pence. And what are they going to do, to all 100 U.S. senators? Yeah.

I mean, because they're all going out there saying they don't have him either. And I just feel like we know Biden had some of that for his time, even as senator. So here you go. This is that drip, drip, drip that continues. But I think it's the FBI just over there. They're weaponized now. Totally, folks. They got a weak leader in America. Yep.

Welcome back to secular. So more classified documents found. This time it's vice President Pence's Indiana home, which was a new home. So it was not like one of the one in Delaware where for years and years of documents. But obviously by his personal attorney. So I think he probably had the same concern as we've all said you better.

Everybody better go check is especially with the FBI on this kind of rampage. And they're going to, you know, apples to apples, oranges to oranges if they got to go, if they think you've got it. So everybody's trying to get ahead of it by having their attorneys do it and then giving it over.

That part's not a bad strategy. But then the FBI says, look at all the past example like with Biden. They don't think that's it. They think they need to come through in a way that the FBI has the resource to that attorneys do not. The lawyers have to have.

So what's going to happen in his house? They got to be careful. They've got to have security clearance, number one, if they're looking at the document.

Maybe they just see the marking and that's enough. Also, if you're a member of the Intelligence Committee of the House of the United States Senate or Foreign Affairs and you've been given classified documents, you better make sure you don't have possession of those. Because this is what happens when you weapon and you took a civil. The dispute between the former President and the National Archives was a dispute between the former President's team and the National Archives on a document dispute. And they weaponized it into a search warrant. And now Merrick Gartland has unleashed, you know when Chuck Schumer said he unleashed the whirlwind? He has unleashed the whirlwind of the Federal Bureau of Investigation that is now going to, the former, look who's involved in this now.

The former President, the former vice President, the current President. So this is what the FBI, you empower them, this is what happens. I would assume they're going to end up in his home.

Of course. Well this is the natural improbable consequence of weaponizing a government agency, whether it's the Archives, the FBI, or the Treasury, or whoever it is, the Justice Department or whoever it is. As you said, you take a this is mine, this is yours, this is not classified, this is his, Trump. And you suddenly swoop down on him with a federal search warrant issued by a United States magistrate, who had a conflict by the way and shouldn't have done it. But you make a criminal case, you appoint a criminal special counsel against him, Jack Smith, right? And then it happens to Biden, oh my God I got to appoint another special counsel in that case. Then it happens to, now it happens to Pence, do I got to appoint another special counsel in this case? I mean how many special counsels are we going to have? Are we going to have to resurrect Robert Mueller, bring back John Adams, so you know who everybody in the world trusts and believes? George Washington of the United States?

Well John Adams was willing to defend the British. Yeah he was willing, yeah so Rob, bring them all back, let's have all special counsels all over the place. Let's have 10, 20 special counsels, let's have every member of the Intelligence Committee have a special counsel. He could, bring them in, bring them in special counsel for everybody.

This is so predictive. When the FBI does a 13 hour search, I'm sure a lot of people wonder this of your home, if they come across anything else like with Hunter or anything else, I mean I know you make parameters. They make parameters, but that is a really good question. If you come across something criminal, they don't ignore it.

So if I'm Joe Biden in that 13 hour house, I'm a Hunter Biden. Now I don't know if, you know we haven't seen the exact parameters of what they were asking for. They go into computers and stuff, we don't know. Well the parameters should have been just areas of where they were going, not documents that they were seizing. It was anything relevant, it should be anything relevant to the investigation.

And if Hunter Biden had access to these documents, that would be relevant to the investigation. But here is the problem with all of this now, it's gone into crazy land, okay? Because you've totally weaponized the government.

And what does this do, Logan, for people that are just following this now? Their heads are, I mean people that are commenting on us are saying, okay, send FBI to all these people because this is out of control. Well I guess they're all checking now is the case, because now everyone realizes this is a much bigger deal than, look we've all said this, this is a document dispute. It's always been a document dispute, whether it was from President Trump, whether it was Joe Biden. It's not really about the documents or what's in it, you kind of assume that a President, a vice President, yeah they probably have access to classified documents.

And yeah, some of them may have found their way out. It's the way they've treated people and the way that the FBI has treated people. That is where you have distrust in your government. The Democrats' strategy to do a big raid on Mar-a-Lago, even when they were cooperating.

Yes. They may have been, again, not, they may have been disputing some of the issues. They were. Let's go to court over this and let judges decide.

I remember their special master discussion, all that, but they decided to have a raid when they already had access. But here's Mike Pence's lawyer making the classic mistake. You want, let me read you the, you know, we have the PHD in how to handle special counsel investigations. Is this a pre-statement or a current statement?

No, this is a current statement. A small number of documents bearing classified markings that were inadvertently boxed and transported to Mr. Pence's home. Now, let's, okay, what does a small number of documents mean? That's exactly what Biden's people said.

Bearing classified markings, what level of markings? What were the documents' subjects? Remember, President Biden stopped sharing the subjects after it was Ukraine, Iran, and the United Kingdom. I didn't know any more than that.

Okay. And everybody's using inadvertent and everybody's boxed up and everybody's saying all these things. But Mike on Facebook asks this question. How many congressmen and senators are searching through their home offices for confidential documents right now? Over 400. Everybody who's been in office who's not brand new.

All of them, 435. That's what I said. This is what the conversation will now get to, which is, oh, this is just commonplace. And what that does is it surely it makes the Trump situation downplayed, but it gets the Biden situation. Oh, it's very good for Donald Trump.

It's actually very good for Biden, actually, too. This is good for everyone because what this does is actually prove the point of CNN yesterday saying the joking, the spillage, because what it's showing is it's probably not totally inaccurate in the sense of, but again, it's never been about the documents. It's all been about the treatment of the people with the documents and how different that is if you are President Trump or you are President Biden. Because President Trump was the most transparent of these days.

Yes. Because they knew they had documents that were in dispute. And they said, come look, come put this, you want a different lock on the door?

We'll put a different lock. Yeah, they were different. We already had cameras on the- But it was a conversation.

Yes, they had a conversation. These are all people who went back. They're self-reporting or something.

Yeah, well, let me ask you this, though. So they target him, they go after him hard, and then now these guys are self-reporting. And now it's backfiring on anybody. So everybody's self-reporting and now the FBI is making certain. And now you got to, you know, the FBI, here's the, first of all, if you're Donald Trump, let me tell you what you're not worried about.

Being indicted for document protection. Do you think that they would have ever done this search if the FBI didn't contact Pence? Do I think they would have done the search? Like, do you think that this is all like we thought with Biden, like, you better do this, you better let us in or else? Oh, I do think- You better go check. No, I don't know this.

You better go check first, and then we'll decide what we do next. No, I think what happened was when document two was found, and then the third document, my suspicion, I don't know this, Andy has more experience than I do, is that the special counsel's office or the U.S. attorney in Chicago said, you know what, we're either going to issue a search warrant, get a search warrant, which Andy can explain quickly, or you can give us a voluntary, we're going into your house. You see, that's what probably happens next to Pence. Probably. Yeah, I think that's exactly right.

They either could still be consistent in the way they're doing it. I think that's right. I think they're going to say to Mike Pence, look, you've got the documents, you've admitted you had them, we're going to either come into your house and do another 13-hour search like we did for Biden, or we're going to get a search warrant and we're going to do this. The lesson to be learned here is people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Don't also say a number of – a small number of documents bearing classified markings that were inadvertently – because here's what – now they've got to ask everybody who boxed the stuff up, here's what's going on now for Mike Pence's office. Everybody that boxes stuff up, who found the documents, who put them in his house, all that's going to come out. Listen, Mike Pence is a friend of ours, we represented the former President, we know these people. I'm not saying any of them, including – I don't think anybody was up to sinister here necessarily.

I don't think that. If you were going to make – hey, Joe Biden would make the most sense because his son is being investigated for that. Yeah, but that's not – but here's the thing, on that one, three times their lawyer said the wrong thing. Right. And that – I can't – and why is the White House counsel in the middle of this?

I can't figure that one out at all. Well, I think on the Pence matter too, I think what's – again, why the FBI is going to be there is I've seen – I know that he's hosted late Christmas parties at that home. People – you know, there's been people there.

Just like any other former major official, you – they have – and I've seen pictures on Facebook of people that I know that I'm friends with that have been to those parties. And they're going to say, okay, so people were in that home who did not have – definitely didn't have security clearances. It didn't mean that they were actually going to look through his files either. No, but – But I'm just saying, they've set this bar so high so where that everybody now is treated as a criminal from the start. So the spillage thing, Logan, that you were talking about.

The opposite, Joe. So did CNN know yesterday that Pence had it too? We have a bite – actually, you can kind of hear it from CNN, so you've got to have an idea. But yes, that's what it seems like is they had an idea that this was coming. Okay.

Katie, this has been a big question, of course, not just in light of what happened with Trump's documents but also now with Biden. You know, is it an accepted thing? How common is this? What has your reporting found? Yeah, Caitlin, this kind of classified spillage happens almost literally every day.

And most of the time, it's completely accidental. So this is how now they get rid of this issue for all of them. For everybody. But they're all going to be tainted with this.

Yeah, for everybody. And actually, it kind of plays back to our first point, our initial point with Trump. Should have never been. That this should never have been this big of a deal to begin with because these classified documents, it's at least a debate whether a President could or should have these documents or a former vice President for that matter or a former anything in the cabinet that they wouldn't maybe have access to these documents. And when packing up and leaving, especially under the duress that kind of happened in the Trump administration, then maybe sometimes stuff made its way out that shouldn't have made its way out. Well, you got it.

I mean, I'm thinking about all these friends of ours that are, they bet everybody better be checking. Yeah, because again, the FBI is on a power trip. Oh, yeah. And what Merrick Garland keeps doing with the point of these special counsels is delegating power. And it boldens the FBI. It technically has control, we know that, but like you really can't get rid of these special counsels once you appoint them. You got to let them like finish their job or else you look like you're obstructing justice. So even though the attorney general and the President can actually dismiss them, and we've said that before, they're not going to. But now this says the President, is there going to be another one? Well, I don't, you know, on Penn's matter, we'll have to see where it goes. Meanwhile, there's a hearing on the grand jury report on the Georgia grand jury investigating the former President's election activities. This is the grand jury that doesn't have the actual subpoena power, right? Right, but this is the hearing before the judge. So we'll talk about that a little bit when we come back as well. All right, so welcome back to Secular. So the breaking news, and I think, you know- Which we're uniquely able to comment on, I might add. Yes.

Is now that, because we have people who are just joining us, you might be just tuned in on radio, just tuned in on Sirius XM, just tuned in online. So now Vice President Pence's attorneys have confirmed to the media that they have turned over about a dozen of these files. That's what they mean by the documents. Very classified markings.

And they haven't said the level, they haven't said what it's about. We know it was in his home in Indiana, which was a new home that he purchased after leaving office as vice President. So again, the thing with Pence is that the media is going to hit on is they've got him on the record saying he doesn't have any classified documents. And you know, he made, went out and said, now his attorneys say, doing exactly what Biden's people did, which is, it was a small number. And then the FBI says, well, we need to look. You know, there's something going on here.

We should have had Wes, maybe Wes can come down. I want to ask him this because he handled classified documents. And the redepositing of the classified document when you're done with the document, we all remember this, is you return the document.

Okay, it's usually in a folder, off it goes. Here's the question. Apparently nobody was doing this. Okay.

Nobody was doing this. Well, I think it goes to your point. If you're at that level, you could request information as a vice President, like for a report. Because in his portfolio was some of the national security.

We know that. And foreign policy. And your national security advisor could go to the CIA or the FBI and say, I need a report on this. And that report could be at some level of classified. So it's different than like a skiff. Yeah, it is different than a skiff.

For this level of official? Remember, the vice President's office is a skiff. The President's office is a skiff.

The White House counsel's office is a skiff. And when you're taking them to your, when you took them, let's say the President took them back upstairs to the residence. That is technically, at that point it's within the White House material. A President can take classified documents and a vice President may be able to take them home.

But you can't take them to your private home when you're not. Let's take Jeff's call at 1-800-684-3110 is a really good question. Hey Jeff, welcome to Secular. You're on the air.

Hey, thanks for taking my call. I'm just wondering, could the Pence documents be used to give cover for the Biden document? Here's what it's doing. It's broadening out the problem to now it's affecting the former vice President, the former President, and the current President. So everybody that's involved right now in the political process seems to be, not everybody, but getting touched by this. But the problem is the weaponization of the FBI, which was Merrick Gartler's own creation here. They need to do away with the special counsel statute. I've said this for 10 years. It never works the way they think it's going to and now you've unleashed a government that is, an agency that is just doing pretty much whatever they want.

Well this is exactly correct. The special counsel, I mean when, you know, back in the old days we did it within the Justice Department and we handled it internally. We didn't farm it out to a special counsel or even an independent counsel which doesn't exist anymore who then makes a life career and has an annuity as a result of this. We kept it within the Department of Justice and to answer the caller's question, yes I think it gives cover. Because what it does is it shows that when you criminalize and weaponize a government agency, it's going to happen to everybody. They're going to become criminal subjects of an investigation which they shouldn't be.

Here's the problem. When you look at all of this, right, I think we have to look at this. Let's roll the tape back. This all started three weeks ago, January 6th.

This has not been going on for a year or six months. Now the negotiations between Trump and the National Archives have been going on for a while. This whole look back idea, like you go send your attorneys in. Let's see what's happened here. So you had the Trump situation going on in the summer where it got to the point where they were bringing in FBI agents that went down to Mar-a-Lago to look at documents and to see what was there and to assess the security needs that needed to be put in place. That culminates in a search warrant being issued by a magistrate judge who was really conflicted out, as Andy said. Now, here's another aspect of that. That happens.

At the same time, Merrick Garland had already been notified that secure documents were found at the vice President's offices with the Penn Biden Center. So all that took place. Then what happens? More documents are found.

Then what happens? Another special counsel is appointed. They're just starting searches. And so they did a special counsel to Trump, a special counsel on Biden. Now Mike Pence's lawyers say a small number of documents bearing classified markings that were inadvertently boxed and transported to the President's office after Mike Pence, who is, again, a friend of ours, and we represent the former President. So I understand the situation here, which means this whole thing's out of control because it's the former President, the former vice President, and the current President. So that's when you say we're a constitutional republic. Stop this, Merrick Garland. Take a time out. Say enough already. Let's get control of this document dispute that they have literally federalized here. Yeah.

And I want to play. I think that these senators have to be careful, too, because they even have a weaker argument. They're supposed to go to special places to hear it.

Take a listen by 22. President Biden said he had no regrets on how he handled this. Do you have any advice for him on how he should handle this? Oh, I think he should have a lot of regrets. Yeah, I would think that. I said whoever's responsible. I mean, if I hold people accountable and I use whether it be my chief of staff or my, you know, my staff that we're doing this and I'm looking at, then I'm going to hold someone accountable.

But basically, Buck stops with me. All right. So I asked, you know, Colonel Westman has just joined us here. So, Wes, it's not just the receiving of a classified document. You had classified the top secret clearance. It's the way you dispose of them when you're done reviewing them. You don't take them to your house. You do not take them out of the SCIF normally. Perhaps at the White House there might be a different procedure. Yeah, but still, you don't take them out of the SCIF. You don't take them out of that area. I mean, it is a huge, huge, everyone understands this. We're trained on this.

And the idea that someone would actually take them home is unthinkable. And what I think about also, Jay, is that there are service people that I happen to know about who for far less infractions with classified materials have been sentenced to prison for this. I know. This is the irony of all this.

We're saying, well, the President, the vice President, the former President. But people in the military have gone to jail for this kind of thing, Jordan. I mean, this is serious.

Yes. And then, of course, there's always been people who have gotten serious criminal charges, long-term prison sentences because of selling this kind of like trading it on the market, especially CIA agents, FBI officials. So that's a level we've always prosecuted and taken very seriously in our country. That's one thing. These are people finding it in their boxes and saying it's, well, his attorney just going by and saying inadvertent. It sounds like these were all together.

And that statement sounds like it was like a box of classified documents, which if you're the FBI, you're saying ring, ring, ring. Here we go. I'm going to say this. For our audience on Rumble and Facebook and YouTube, can we stay after for a moment? I want to add, because this is important. We could talk about it again tomorrow, too. But what I want to get into, and I guess we could save it for tomorrow. That'd probably be best because this is just breaking, is there is a real deep-seated problem here. And I want the American people, I don't care if you're a Republican, Democrat, independent, Green Party, I don't care.

But I want you to be thinking about this right now. The FBI is investigating the former President of the United States and the current President of the United States and his son. And now the former vice President of the United States has disclosed that even though he thought he didn't have any documents, he has documents, too. We have a special counsel against the sitting President and against the former President. And who knows what's going to happen now with the vice President. I'm saying is, how do we look to the rest of the world?

This is not the way it's supposed to work, Andy, in a constitutional republic. And it's because Merrick Gartland's weak leadership let this get a strike. Well, we look like fools. We look like fools going around and spoiling special counsel at the drop of a hat over a document dispute.

And we look ridiculous and we shouldn't be doing this. And now look how, Jordan, it's affecting everybody. Well, you know what, as someone said on Rumble, you know, we're not talking about the border. Nope. The economy.

Nope. Which we were going to be talking about today, actually. Ukraine, China, the issues that actually affect American people every day that are affecting them at this moment. So there's major distractions. Yeah, but we are looking weak globally. Yes.

I mean, that's what I'm saying. It also makes you look like these other world leaders say, oh, these guys are dealing with such a mess, we can do whatever we want right now. Wes, I was going to say, we'll talk about it more tomorrow, the implications of foreign policy could be dangerous here. Absolutely. People look at this and it inspires our adversaries and it definitely discourages our allies if they share information with us. All right, folks. That's the other thing. I mean, we have a lot to get into on this tomorrow, so you'll want to stay tuned. Support the work of the ACLJ at ACLJ.org. We'll talk to you tomorrow.