Will the Supreme Court Overturn Roe?

Today on Sekulow, as we await a Supreme Court decision on Roe, our fight for life continues. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. We want to hear from you.

Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow. Hey, welcome to Sekulow, folks. This is a unique broadcast today because, as we know, the Supreme Court will be deciding the fate of Roe vs. Wade early this summer. And there's a lot that will happen, depending on this case. Now, it might not be that it's a direct reversal, Roe vs. Wade is no longer the law of the land, but it could be that the basic principles of Roe vs. Wade that allowed for very little restrictions on abortion, that the idea of Roe vs. Wade is gutted.

So what happens next, of course, in this fight for life? Well, we know the abortion industry is going to ramp up two ways. They want to shut down pro-life speech.

We've seen that time and time again. We have current cases right now you're going to hear about where the abortion industry wants to shut down sidewalk counselors. The idea that on that public sidewalk, because you're speaking about your pro-life position, that speech is no longer allowed. So they want to treat, it's always abortion distortion, treat anything against abortion as somehow different and wrong.

And they're going to also ramp up their efforts to try and shut down crisis pregnancy centers, pro-life pregnancy centers that are across the country. So you might be in a state where, and the abortion industry knows this, that if they give the green light to the law in Mississippi, your state might want to say, okay, we won't adopt the same law. But you might need a constitutional change.

You might need some advice from the ACLJ. You will get challenged in court still. They'll all be unique. So there's going to be an incredible moment. The fight will be far from over if we get the decision that many people are predicting that opens the floodgates to allow states to regulate abortion more directly. And I think, again, folks, we have not seen a case like this since Roe vs. Wade.

I mean, really, again, we saw one close in 1990. That's how long it has been. And, Logan, we know, though, the abortion industry is a business. That's part of the show today. And we show the insights of that. And it's about making money. So when you try to come after a business, they will fight back. And so even if they lose this case to the Supreme Court, that opens up the fight to the states.

And they're well-funded. And if Roe vs. Wade is overturned, definitely take a huge victory in the fact that we've gotten this far. But that does not mean the fight is going to end.

It means the fight is going to change and change rapidly. So what you'll see in some of this documentary we put together—again, you can watch the full film at acljfilms.com—is that our team broke down really what that industry is like with the business side of abortion is—big abortion, if you will. It's definitely not something you necessarily want to watch with your children. So I want to give a fair warning to that. It's a pretty intense, obviously, subject matter.

You should watch it. Keep yourself educated because so much is going to change. You have these kind of documentaries that are relevant right now.

They're going to be even more relevant, and we're going to have to update them because so much is going to change potentially in the next few months. We have to be well-informed and engaged on what is going on with this fight and how things are going to change. And look, that is not something that we at the ACLJ are not already considering. We're already looking towards what happens, depending on the decision. Decision can go either way.

What happens and how does this fight continue on? Like you said, they're not going away quietly. Again, it's a billion-dollar-a-year business.

You have to think about it that way. When you win against a billion-dollar-a-year business, they don't just say, okay, we're done. We're not going to fight back anymore. Remember, what this case would do—and we'll explain this throughout the broadcast today and talk about how they're already trying to shut down pro-life speech, pro-life pregnancy centers, and the business of abortion. Ultimately, what they're going to do is they're going to take this battle to the states. Now, about half the states of the country are red states, pro-life states, but still, they're going to need to do a lot of work to get the good laws in place. So they will fight every step of the way, the abortion industry there. Then you've got to have about half the country where, you know what, this is going to open up a whole new debate. Because instead of just saying, oh, well, the federal law or this or we don't really have a say in this, even if you're in a blue state, your state now is going to have to make decisions about this and your state legislators and your governor. They can't just hide behind federal law if this case goes the way we hope. So you've got to get up to speed and ready to go for this battle. The abortion industry, they're ramping up. They're preparing like they've lost.

We have to prepare like they are going to lose at the federal level, so what's going to happen when this really returns to the states for the first time since Roe versus Wade? That's why we need your support financially. We have a matching challenge the entire month of March at ACLJ.org. Donate today. ACLJ.org.

Double your impact. We'll be right back. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad, whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith. I'm covering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress. The ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support.

Take part in our matching challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, playing parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to Sekulow and we are going to be taking your phone calls to 1-800-684-3110. I encourage you, if you're on Rumble, this is a kind of new feature we can utilize. It says if you scroll down right below the video, maybe a couple ads, you'll see where we're able to put in text. In the first text it says sign our petition now with a link. That is a petition if you click on it for life and specific to the Dobbs case at the U.S. Supreme Court. 408,000 people have signed that petition.

Our goal is 500,000. So we have new folks on Rumble. It takes just a minute to sign the petition. You put your name, email, and zip code and that is it.

Again, I encourage you to check that out on Rumble. It's a new feature we've got and you'll see right there the petition. So Frank Mann, you're joining us, Senior Counselor for the ACLJ and Frank, you were in federal court last week for a two-day trial. Before we get into the specifics of what happened in court, let's talk about this case. We've been standing for free speech for the life issue for literally 40 years. I mean, we go back a long time, all of us working together, and we've been doing this for four decades and yet even with wins at the Supreme Court on this very kind of issue, we are still finding ourselves defending those that want to speak out for life in the vicinity of an abortion clinic. But give us the details of this case.

What was it involving, Frank? Sure, Jay, and you're so right. What's happening here is we have a unanimous Supreme Court decision in 2014, McCullen versus Coakley, that the lower courts and municipalities still haven't figured out that the court meant what it said. We represent a woman named Gerald Turco who's been sidewalk counseling outside of an abortion clinic in Englewood, New Jersey since 2005.

For the first eight years, things were fairly peaceful. Then in 2013, a new group of protesters, pro-life protesters, arrived who had a completely different approach than Gerald. She prefers the quiet, personal one-on-one communication with people, handing them pamphlets, giving them alternatives to abortion.

She thinks that's more effective. Frankly, I do too, which is not to say that these other people don't have their own First Amendment rights. The city was claiming and the clinic was claiming that they were doing illegal things, pushing people, blocking doors, screaming into the building, that sort of thing. Well, Englewood's response was to pass a buffer zone which excludes from the vicinity of the clinic not only those people who they may or may not have a right to exclude, but also our client and other quiet, peaceful sidewalk counselors. Well, the Supreme Court in 2014, nine to zero, how often do you get a unanimous decision in abortion?

Maybe never. Including people like RBG said, cities, you can't do that. These kinds of buffer zones are disfavored. If you exhaust everything else, targeted injunctions against the actual wrongdoers, face-type laws, prosecutions of actual criminal violations, if none of that works, then maybe you can go to a buffer zone.

Englewood did none of that. That's been a testimony for the seven years we've been litigating this case. It finally came out in court last week and we're hoping we get a successful result in the end. Frank, as I think about this, you and I have been litigating at the Supreme Court and at the Court of Appeals, these kind of abortion free speech cases, literally for decades. And when you have a situation like this, you think to yourself, well, you won, it's done.

And why would you be back in federal court? But then a municipality thinking they could treat pro-life speech different than any other form of communication. And that's what the real problem is here. They treat pro-life protesters as if they are, you know, as our friend Jordan Lawrence used to say, asbestos in the ceiling tile, they're dangerous just because they're pro-life, so we can change all the rules. Yeah, and that's why we have to keep fighting this case. And that's why we frankly have been fighting this case for literally seven years. We won the case on summary judgment in 2017 at the district court level.

The city appealed. The Third Circuit spent about a year and a half mulling that over and then said, you know what, we need a trial. So that's why this case is dragged out for so long. And in the meantime, our client has to navigate this obstacle course created by the buffer zones.

There's really six separate buffer zones in this particular place. And it's simply impossible to share the message she wants to share in the way, not only she wants to share, but in the way that the unanimous Supreme Court said she has an absolute right to try to do. So that's why we're still fighting. You know, and this is at a time when we've got the biggest abortion case since Roe vs. Wade is at the U.S. Supreme Court waiting for the opinion. I mean, it came up in the State of the Union address by President Biden.

The Supreme Court justices, you know, they showed their faces, which were stoic most of the time during the State of the Union, maybe even more stoic when he made that attack on them, because ultimately that's what he's trying to do is, even at that moment, trying to influence them at the last minute. And so we have that. But we're also representing South Dakota and their governor, Kristi Noem, in a case there involving informed consent. So we are, I think, on the one hand, doing the traditional cases we've been working on, like the sidewalk counselor, like informed consent. We're also preparing for what would a post-Dobbs, in a good way, world look like. And Frank, there would be an unbelievable amount of new litigation because you've got state constitutional issues, you have probably about half the states of the country that would want to put in similar laws, other states that might be kind of somewhere in the middle, and then some states that are going to be very pro-abortion. So it's going to be up to groups like ours to go in and educate the legislators on what they can and can't do, the steps they need to take to get the laws passed. There's a lot of work that can be done. The pro-life movement will not be done because of what happens in Dobbs.

No question about it. I mean, if Dobbs goes the way we hope it goes, or even part of the way that we think it should go, it's not going to be an end of litigation. It's just going to be the beginning of a new round of litigation.

Slightly different in some ways, but you're right. I mean, the patchwork quilt of laws will be challenged and defended all across the country after that. Frank, one of the things I've thought about, and I see this, if Dobbs goes the way we think it does in that particular case of the Supreme Court, we filed a major brief on that amicus brief, and we've been involved in abortion litigation cases at the Supreme Court for, like I said, four decades. I think the crisis pregnancy centers, the women's health centers, are going to be really at risk in states that are pro-abortion.

We already know, even though we've won at the Supreme Court on this, they are going to try to regulate them out of existence. That's right. Let's not forget who was the defendant in the case that we brought to the Supreme Court.

It was somebody named Kamala Harris, I believe. She's in an even more influential position now. So that's the kind of thing we're up against. And you're right, crisis pregnancy centers are also on the front line, just as the sidewalk counselors are.

They are targets of pro-abortion regulators all over the place. So Frank, let me ask you this. So you had the trial. What's the next move after the trial?

How'd it go, first of all? The trial went fine. I think our case looks better after the trial.

You'll appreciate this, Jay. Every single one of the five witnesses who testified for the city contradicted their deposition testimony on the crucial issues in the case. For a lawyer, it was like Christmas morning. I sat there with deposition transcripts to every single one of them. Remember when I took your deposition?

You said the opposite. That rarely happens in a trial, but I think that came across loud and clear to the judge who heard the case. We now have a couple weeks to submit our written summations, findings of fact, and conclusions of law, and then we'll wait for a decision after that. So very important on that point. So even though the trial is complete, the post-work here is you've got briefs and submissions due as a result of the witnesses at trial, basically summation? Exactly.

Exactly. Thirty-five years ago, you argued your first case to the Supreme Court, a Jews for Jesus case. That was 35 years ago today. So for our audience who may be new to our work, I know some people know that we've been doing that for decades, but if you might be new to our work, there's a photo outside the court.

I was pretty little. That's me in the blue coat there. When we talk about the expertise, it has been over three decades of work at the Supreme Court. And like we talked about our work at the ICC, we have all these specific, very unique specialties and focuses. So I think, again, it's worth pointing out to all of you during this matching challenge month, when you're supporting the work of the ACLJ, you're supporting the work of an organization that has been in existence, that has been at the Supreme Court for 35 years protecting your constitutional rights on a whole host of issues, whether it's free speech, which really that's what this case is about. It's got abortion distortion in it because it's an abortion clinic, but it's free speech. That's what the Jews for Jesus case is also about, free speech. The idea that religious speech is just like other speech, and we have free speech. And we've been arguing that and fighting for freedom. And you know what's interesting, Dad, I would say, is that over time, there were other groups who would say, well, they were even more extreme free speech groups like the ACLU, and they're not anymore.

Now they pick sides with speech. It's a historic picture. For those that are watching us and for those that are listening on radio, I mean, it is a historic picture. Jordan's three years old. Logan's in it. A nephew of ours is in it. My brother's in it.

My parents are both in heaven now as well is in it. Stuart Roth is there. That's how long we've been doing all of this. And the fact is, about a week after this hearing, I met in Kentucky with a lawyer named Pat Monahan, Frank, and we started working together then. Yeah, so I mean, you look at that and you'd say we've litigated in the 80s, the 90s, the 2000s, the 2010s, and the 2020s, five decades before the Supreme Court of the United States. So folks, again, just a great example of the work outside of what you see on this broadcast, which is an important part of our work because we're able to get the message out and inform you. But again, it's a small part of everything else that goes on behind the scenes, the cases, the attorneys that are out around the country defending constitutional rights in a time where free speech is under attack because we saw the censorship of Facebook.

There's new censors in the world, and we fight back against those. Yeah, I think my sister's in there, Jeannie, and my sister-in-law. I mean, it was a family affair then. It is now, too. Our entire family is still fully engaged as we go to the next generation of leadership with Jordan and Logan. Folks, very important. Support the work at ACLJ.org. ACLJ.org to support the work of the American Center for Law and Justice, especially in the month of March and our Matching Challenge Campaign. Support the work at ACLJ.org.

Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support. Take part in our Matching Challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family.

Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. We'll now recognize our witness. Please welcome Ms. Cecile Richards, President of Planned Parenthood Federation of America. If you will please rise and raise your right hand.

Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Startling revelations tonight that could put some in the abortion industry in a most uncomfortable position. I'm proud to be here today speaking on behalf of Planned Parenthood, a leading provider of high quality reproductive health care in America. The fetal tissue is obtained with the pregnant woman's permission and can be useful investigating diseases. Planned Parenthood has been in the news recently because of deceptively edited videos released by a group that is dedicated to making abortion illegal.

Planned Parenthood's Senior Director of Medical Services says prices per body part specimen would likely range from $30 to $100. The outrageous accusations leveled against Planned Parenthood are offensive and categorically untrue. I think what we need to look at is the business of abortion. And the business of abortion starts with a sale. An organization is chopping up children and selling the body parts to the highest bidder. They can call it whatever they like.

The reality is they've been caught red-handed. I was told it was just a blob of tissue. She looked me dead in the eyes. She said, it's not a baby.

It's a blob of tissue. We really did treat women like second-class citizens. Do not ever kid yourself.

They know exactly what they're doing. We were driven by this quota. I didn't want the baggage, in all honesty, of having a child.

I pretended I was fine, but I wasn't fine. She said, this is the best choice for you. They're in the business of abortion. They worship at the altar of abortion. Most people working in the abortion clinic make more money than they can anywhere else. Does no one see what's really going on in America?

Is this really who we're going to be? Can you tell me how many of your affiliates receive the majority of their revenue from abortion? I don't know that answer. Could you get it for me? I'll talk to my team.

Thanks. But I do think it's important to understand that abortion procedures are probably more expensive than some other procedures that we provide, which might explain what you're trying to get at. Fear is probably the biggest reason why these girls have an abortion. A lot of them know that it's wrong.

A lot of them don't want to do it, but they feel like it's their only way of surviving their life. I just can't have this baby. The guy's not going to stand by me. My parents will not stand by me. My mom's telling me to have it. My friend has had one in the past, and she says, just do it.

You know, just suck it up for this half an hour and go through this horrible thing and your life will be back to normal. Crisis pregnancies have all kinds of circumstances that surround them. Perhaps they're young and unmarried. Perhaps they're in an economically compressed circumstance or maybe even a depressed circumstance. It may be that they have family pressures.

There may be stigma that is sure to be placed on them if they carry a child to term. Because she's scared. Because she already has other children. Because she's poor. Because she's single.

Because the guy ran out on her. Because she's in college. Because she wants to finish her education. Because she just got a promotion at work. And she doesn't want a baby to come in between her and her career goals. Because she doesn't want to disappoint her parents. Because she was raised in the church. And she doesn't want anybody to know that she was having sex. They're confused. They're hurt.

They're scared. And abortion is presented as the easy alternative, the painless alternative, to eliminate the problem. I didn't want the baggage, in all honesty, of having a child while I was in college. Because I had a vision for my life and it didn't include children. I don't have a car. I don't drive.

I have no money, you know. So yeah, the ideal thing would be to have an abortion. And that's what I had 100% decided to do. It was my third pregnancy. In my second marriage, with an agreement, there would be no more children. Of course, I never expected to get pregnant. And when I found myself pregnant, Roe v. Wade had just happened.

It was all in the news. I called my doctor. He said, no problem.

We can take care of it. I remember walking out from the bathroom, holding the pregnancy test, and telling my boyfriend at the time I'm pregnant. You know, my mind was blank. I had no idea what to do. And so I guess I was looking to him for some answers. I remember he looked at me and he said, well, that's not a problem. He said, I've taken other girls to abortion clinics.

We'll just take you to a clinic and get it taken care of. And, you know, I would like to tell you that I thought, well, wait a minute, you know, let's talk about this. But I didn't. I just said, okay. I sat through the counseling part of it. And, of course, it was very, you're too young, you know, this is probably going to be your best option. I remember very, very vividly them saying that. So I thought, okay, we borrowed money from his best friend.

And at the time he was, that friend was the only one who knew about it and made the appointment. And I went back the following week. My mom said to me, she says, if you have this baby, you have to do it by yourself. She says, or you can have an abortion. And I thought to myself, wow, okay, I can have an abortion? Well, let's do that. I mean, I'm 14.

I don't want to be pregnant in high school. And so if it's coming from my mom, surely, you know, it's a good decision. So, okay, yeah, let's do that. A friend came running in and he said, Jonesy, your girlfriend's on the phone. She's lying. So I ran out, I answered the phone. And she just kept saying over and over and over again, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

It wasn't me. And then her father said over the other line, Jason, we know your secret and your secret's gone. We took Katie to get an abortion. In a landmark ruling, the Supreme Court today legalized abortions. The majority in cases from Texas and Georgia said that the decision to end a pregnancy during the first three months belongs to the woman and her doctor, not the government. One of the things that most Americans think and think wrongly is that abortion began with Roe v. Wade.

The truth is, is that every single civilization throughout all of antiquity and all the way up to the present time has had as a major component part of the culture, abortion. I think from the very beginning, I came with a large family. My mother died young, 11 children, made an impression on me as a child. I was a trained nurse, went among the people.

I saw women who asked to have some means whereby they wouldn't have to have another pregnancy too early after the last child, the last abortion, which many of them had. There's a number of things that are one after the other that really made you feel that you had to do something. This broadcast every day is because of your support of the American Center for Law and Justice. We're in a matching challenge campaign in March. We're up to a really good start.

We want to continue that momentum. That's right. And to be part of the ACLJ's matching challenge, simply go to ACLJ.org. And what it means, if you donate $25 to the ACLJ today online at ACLJ.org, we have a group of donors throughout the month of March that will match the donation that comes through. You've got to take the initial action, though, to get that match from those donors. So if you donate $25, they also donate $25. So effectively, your $25 donation is like $50 for us at the ACLJ. That goes for a $5 donation and a $200 donation on up from there. So if you want to support our work, which is much bigger than just the broadcast, go to ACLJ.org.

We'll be right back. I'm talking about freedom. I'm talking about freedom.

We will fight for the right to live in freedom. According to New York health department statistics, we now know that there are more African-American babies that are aborted in New York than actually born alive. Of course, the lack of access for African-American women in particular to basic preventive health care, including family planning, is a huge problem in this country as well. It is.

I don't want to spend, and I agree with you. That is an aforementioned time of places that we've served and worked in. But it does concern me that three times the African-American population is 13%, yet they're being aborted three times percent of the population at 35%. At the end of the 19th century, the beginning of the 20th century, there were a number of revolutionary figures who wanted to remake the world as a kind of revolutionary challenge, to remake it in a kind of pseudo-scientific fashion.

They wanted to usher in Tomorrowland. Planned Parenthood and Margaret Singer, who was the founder of that organization, were eugenicists. And eugenicists are not killing babies because of some political issue.

They are on a mission to purify. Planned Parenthood began as a eugenics movement. This was to create the superior race. And the target of Planned Parenthood were those that they deemed to be less desirable.

And they viewed the minorities in our communities as the least desirable. She believed that sexuality is a powerful engine to drive social change. And so she sought to usher in this revolutionary new age starting with human sexuality and do it by scientific means, by eliminating unwanted people groups, what she called human weeds. And the human weeds were specifically identified as blacks, Hispanics, Eastern Europeans, Slavs. She believed that these were sort of lower on the evolutionary chain.

And so to bring about this new age of a race of thoroughbreds, as she called them, you had to eliminate the bad gene stocks out of the human gene pool. Abortion, birth control, those kinds of things really emerged out of that ideology. It wasn't medicine. It wasn't to help women. It wasn't to give freedom of choice.

It was really how do we reshape society? Planned Parenthood had a history, according to its founders, Margaret Sanger, of targeting Negro leaders. And she said, Negroes are like weeds who need to be exterminated. They want that word to get out.

So what we need to do is to cultivate some of their leaders, get them on our side, have them think that we want to help them. This is how Planned Parenthood went after African American leaders. They still do it today. The eugenics movement is dead. They don't call it eugenics anymore. Planned Parenthood doesn't use the word eugenics. But the fact of the matter is the result that they're getting is exactly the same.

It's the elimination of a race. Where are these abortions taking place, minority communities? Those of us that believe in life know that we're on the right side of history. We understand full well children are children, and they're precious in God's sight, and they're precious in our nation's sight, and they're precious to parents. The more that we talk about children, the more the nation awakens to the realities of this. And I believe in the days ahead America will look back on this season in history and will be mortified about what happened in the abortion industry, much like our nation is mortified about slave trade from a century ago. We look at it and say, I know that was legal. I know that was provided and protected by the courts, but we all understand it's wrong now. We will see abortion that same way in the days ahead as we awaken each other to the realities of the value of those children. So we continue to press the fight, and we continue to do it the right way to actually win hearts and minds. Again, not in a way that pushes people away, but people that can be drawn to the simple reality, shouldn't we stand up for life? Shouldn't we do that most basic thing as a culture?

And I think we'll win it. To be part of the ACLJ's Matching Challenge, simply go to ACLJ.org. And what it means, if you donate $25 to the ACLJ today online at ACLJ.org, we have a group of donors throughout the month of March that will match the donation that comes through. You've got to take the initial action, though, to get that match from those donors. So if you donate $25, they also donate $25. So effectively, your $25 donation is like $50 for us at the ACLJ.

I mean, that goes for a $5 donation and a $200 donation on up from there. So if you want to support our work, which is much bigger than just the broadcast, go to ACLJ.org, donate today, be part of the Matching Challenge. We'll be right back. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in the years ahead. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support. Take part in our Matching Challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms.

They're most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication, offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, the play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. I went to Texas A&M University and met a woman there who was with Planned Parenthood. She was trying to recruit volunteers, student volunteers, but also certainly trying to talk about services to recruit patients as well. You know, I immediately was sort of drawn to her booth because it was saturated and hot pink and that's my favorite color. And so I went over to her. She asked me what I knew about Planned Parenthood and told her I knew nothing.

And I think for her that's probably like jackpot. You know, she doesn't know anything about our organization so I can sort of sell her all of our talking points. And she started telling me about all the wonderful work that Planned Parenthood does and how, you know, low-income women would have nowhere else to go for health care if it wasn't for Planned Parenthood.

And she did tell me that they did abortions, but she said it was just sort of this necessary evil and it was just a very small percentage, just not very many abortions every year. And so I just sort of bought it and started volunteering with the organization as a student and really believed that I was doing the right thing. I really believed that I was helping women. You had a statement that you made that quality, affordable health care is your entire mission. And you made that statement.

I actually wrote it down when you made it. Why would you not make an executive decision then to temporarily discontinue your abortion services, which only represents by your testimony 3% of the services that you provide, and continue providing what you consider to be your entire mission of 97% of the services provided? Well, because abortion is a legal service in America. And we think it's important that women—you quoted me as saying quality, affordable health care, and that includes access to quality and affordable abortion services as well. But you acknowledge that—do you say abortion is health care? Do you consider that health care?

Yes, it's a health care service for women. In fact, 3 in 10 women in this country have accessed an abortion at some point. So you define abortion as health care? It absolutely is part of women's health care, and women will tell—I think women would agree. Planned Parenthood, for the most part, for most women, is synonymous with abortion. So when women came in, even if they said they were there for options counseling, they generally were there just to get information about abortion. They call it reproductive care.

They'll call it health care. These are words that are utilized to give it a more palatable sound, so that in the body politic, when the negotiations go on, they're talking about reproductive rights or women's health issues, when in reality, what we're talking about—and look at the procedure itself. We're talking about the destruction of an unborn child. I said to Planned Parenthood, I'm having problems. And they said, well, you are pregnant. Let's do a pregnancy test. And then they said, you are pregnant, but you don't need a baby with everything that's going on in your life. We'll do something called a safe abortion. I went into Planned Parenthood, and they told me at that time, it's just tissue.

It's like having your tonsils removed. And they actually paid for me. I was living in Colorado at the time, and that was before abortion was legal there. And they flew me, bought a plane ticket, flew me to California to have an abortion. We had a script designed to overcome every objection, for that's what sales is.

If you overcome the objection, you get the order. And in this case, this is the abortion. And we led her through this script.

And she was scared, so she was easily led. It's really a business built on a model of drawing women in for abortions. I didn't know. I wasn't given any type of information as far as what it was.

I was told it was just a blob of tissue. I wasn't given any choices as far as ultrasounds or told me to want to go home, think about it, and then come back. Nothing like that.

There was nothing positive. She would confess, I think I may be pregnant. We can take care of this. No one needs to know. And then the first question is, what's the first day of your last normal period? And she figures that date and gives it to the so-called counselor, who's really just kind of a telemarketer of the telephone.

Because that's what they were trained to telemarket. And so she gives her the date and she says, you're eight weeks pregnant. Now what did she do? She confirmed her pregnancy over the telephone. Now you'd think she'd say, stop, how can you tell me that I'm pregnant?

I mean, you don't even know me. You've not done a pregnancy test. But no, this is the pregnancy expert. The seed is planted. The fear confirmed. The next question is, is this good news or bad news? And she says, it's bad news.

Of course it's bad news. She wouldn't be calling an abortion clinic if it were good news. We would talk to them about gestational dates and what sort of abortion they could do, whether it was the medication abortion or the surgical abortion, depending on how far along they were. We would talk briefly about what the procedure would actually be like. If they were getting a directive from my supervisor, we didn't want to give them too much information about the abortion procedure.

We didn't want to talk to them about risks associated with the procedure because we didn't want to scare them out of having an abortion. I was in a back room. It was pretty much bench seating around three walls. There were about eight, nine other girls in there, and there was a little draw curtain changing room with gowns and a big silver safety pin with a number on it. And so I was a number, and I think I was 514 or something like that.

Those numbers stand out. And while you're waiting for your number to be called, you kind of make your way down the bench line and your vitals are taken. And the nurse or whoever she is tells you, this is what you can expect. This is the kind of procedure you're going to have. I have the vacuum procedure and that's it.

And it's just kind of real, very clinical, just very matter of fact. This is what you're doing. This is what's going to happen.

Wait for your number to be called. And so some of the girls around me were really quiet. I was very, very quiet. Some were crying. Some were just gabbing with each other like it was no big deal.

I still remember lying on the steel cold table and staring up at that bright light and counting backwards from ten. The anesthesiologist came in and explained what he'd be doing. And right as he was putting my IV in, the doctor comes in and he just sat at the end of the table and he never said a word to me. He just sat and he looked at me. And he's flipping through a book and he's marking off things and flipping through pages and marking off and that was it. He never had any interaction with me. And the anesthesiologist finally just said, Count from ten.

Before you know it, it'll all be over. It was very, very painful. I've never felt pain like that in my life. I don't even really remember them talking to me at all during the procedure. I remember the nurse giving me sedation and she just kept rubbing my arm, shushing me, telling me to be quiet. And I remember looking around and seeing about three or four other girls waking up also. And I got dressed feeling very groggy and I went into the other room. And I just remember waking up and looking down the row and all these girls were just leaned over asleep. And once they saw me sort of stirring, waking up, they came over.

They had a little bag with my clothes in it and they just stood me up right there in front of everybody, dressed right in the middle of the room, and then gave me a glass of water and some crackers and sent me out the door. And I went and sat on the curb and waited for my boyfriend to come. When I stood up, their sugar and cookies didn't work and I fainted. And I think I fainted because of the horror of what I had done.

I realized that I was missing a large part of me and it was too much for me to take. I woke up crying and I actually ended up being pretty volatile and got a little physical with the nurse that tried to come in time with a puke bucket because I was getting sick. And I slapped her across the face. And I remember because I didn't want anyone to see me.

I didn't want anyone to know. So anyway, I was pretty physical. So they took me and they put me in my own little private room. And one of the nurses sat in the corner and just let me cry it out. And so I sat on a table and I just literally walked back and forth.

And I think probably a couple of hours passed and I just finally got too tired. And they let me go. And interestingly enough, they don't let you walk back out the front.

There's a private exit. And later on in life, I wondered, had I seen someone like me in the state I was in at that moment after that abortion walk back out the front clinic, maybe I wouldn't have done it. To be part of the ACLJ's Matching Challenge, simply go to ACLJ.org. And what it means, if you donate $25 to the ACLJ today online at ACLJ.org, we have a group of donors throughout the month of March that will match the donation that comes through. You've got to take the initial action, though, to get that match from those donors. So if you donate $25, they also donate $25. So effectively, your $25 donation is like $50 for us at the ACLJ. I mean, that goes for a $5 donation and a $200 donation on up from there. So if you want to support our work, which is much bigger than just the broadcast, go to ACLJ.org, donate today, be part of the Matching Challenge.

We'll be right back. Music Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad, whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith. I'm covering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress. The ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

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A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support. Take part in our matching challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org.

We do have an update to you. We're part of our matching challenge. We talked to you about what the ACLJ is doing outside this broadcast. It's not always stuff that's breaking news, but the fight for life is still very strong in the ACLJ. That includes the right for pro-life speech.

We have been defending this since literally the 1980s. Jeff Surtees, the senior counsel for the ACLJ, just came back from a trial in New Jersey defending a pro-life sidewalk counselor. You arrived there, Jeff, back into your offices.

What did you find? We get a denial of a preliminary injunction from the federal court in Louisville where we have filed a lawsuit on behalf of two long-time sidewalk counselors challenging that city's abortion buffer zone. So, yeah, you go through one trial, come back, and you go up on appeal in another circuit court of appeals. So describe this one, Jeff. Describe this one. What was the nature of it? So this one, actually, it was a purely political decision. I mean, because what you have is Louisville's only abortion clinic has been yelling and clamoring for an abortion buffer zone for years.

They finally got it last year. And the ordinance says that you cannot go within ten feet of the entrance of an abortion clinic store. The ordinance says all healthcare facilities, but the abortion clinic is the only entity in town that's requested that these zones be put out there. Well, now, ten feet might not seem like a big deal to many, but ask any sidewalk counselor, and you're going to get the same response.

Every second counts. And sometimes a woman thinking about whether or not to have that abortion is going to change her mind at the very last second. So that ten feet is an important public space where sidewalk counselors need to be able to go, counsel women, let them know about other options that are available, that abortion is not their only choice. But because the abortionists are in cahoots with the city council, they get their no-speech zone, and there we are in federal court. So this was a political move. It's interesting, because we had the same thing happen many years ago, Jeff, and Andy Akon was sitting right next to me.

He did these cases with us in the city of Atlanta, where they decided that the only place there would be stand-away zones would be in front of the abortion clinic, as if the abortion clinic gets its own sense of rules and regulations on free speech, but everybody else is treated differently. Well, that's exactly right. We won that, by the way. We did.

We did. But these cases that you are referring to, Jay, that you and I were involved in, were as late ago as in the 1990s. So we have been fighting for free speech in these areas.

88, actually. To be specific, yes. Okay, well, that's good. That's a long time ago to have been fighting for free speech and the ability of these counselors on the streets of Atlanta or Louisville or in New Jersey to counsel women who are going in to have these horrible procedures performed and to perhaps desist from doing so and not from doing so. But these fights that we have fought have gone on for decades, let's say, 80s, 90s, 2000s, and are going on today. And these are homicide hospitals. That's what they are. Let's just call them what they are.

That's what they are, killing fields. And we have got to be vigilant in our fighting for the ability to proclaim life in these areas, free speech in these areas on public sidewalks, which are traditional public forums, and to fight the battles in federal courts and in state courts all over, Jay. So, Jeff, where does this one go now? U.S. Court of Appeals, Sixth Circuit? U.S. Court of Appeals, Sixth Circuit. Our opening brief is due on April 11th. It's been expedited because this was a denial of a preliminary injunction. Our reply brief will be due in May. Oral arguments shortly thereafter.

Folks, this is what we expect to see. We talk about the same case of the 1980s and 90s. If the case from the Supreme Court, you've heard Joe Biden's rhetoric at the State of the Union on this issue. Even without everything else going on in the world, he made sure to talk about abortion rights and protecting abortion rights from his administration. This will be part of their plan, is that if the Dobbs case goes for life, in a sense, opening the door for states across the country to put it into most abortions.

Just be honest about it. About half the states in the country have state legislatures and governments ready to do that. The other states, and municipalities, by the way, you might live in a red state, but I bet your large city in your state is not run by Republicans.

There's only a couple in the whole country that are. So the municipalities and the cities are going to respond to state action with, I think, what will be even more aggressive and more outrageous restrictions on pro-life speech, on pro-life pregnancy centers. Those battles will all be re-fought. People think that this case could be the end.

It will be the beginning. It's just the battlefield might change from federal court to state court for some of these cases. But ultimately, they all involve constitutional rights. They all end up at the federal court. So if that door opens, you will see, Planned Parenthood's still got a billion dollars a year.

Their industry is not going to just back down and roll over. They are going to aggressively try to shut down pro-life speech, and that includes the sidewalk counselor. It also includes the pro-life pregnancy centers.

You know, Jeff, I look at it, it is the sidewalk counselor. It is the pro-life crisis pregnancy center. It's also doctors and nurses who don't want to engage in these procedures. Those are the three fronts of the abortion battle right now. That's exactly right, and we are aggressively moving forward on all three of those counts. You know, we had the case bout in the Ninth Circuit, went up to the Supreme Court in defense of crisis pregnancy centers. We now have the issue of... We won those.

Yep, won those. We have the sidewalk counselors that we're fighting for in New Jersey and here in the Sixth Circuit. And we're looking ultimately, Jay, with our sidewalk counseling cases to get up to the Supreme Court to have it overrule and renounce Hildy, Colorado, a case that you know very well. I think this court would do it. I think this court would do it.

Yeah, and I think it will. Justice Barrett, when she was on the Seventh Circuit, joined an opinion saying that Hildy, Colorado has been radically undermined by subsequent decisions of the Supreme Court. But that only the Supreme Court can overrule it. That's why, folks, one of these cases may get up there, and that's why we're taking them, and that's ultimately where it goes.

Jeff, we appreciate the update. Look, as it becomes standing for life, the American Center for Law and Justice, front and center on all of these fronts, your support for the ACLJ allows us to do just that. In federal court in New Jersey, now at the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, getting ready for the cases going all the way up to the Supreme Court of the United States. We're in our matching challenge right now where you can double the impact of your donation to the ACLJ. Go to ACLJ.org. If you donate $10, we've got a donor that's matching it. So again, ACLJ.org. That's ACLJ.org to support the work of the American Center for Law and Justice, especially in the month of March and our matching challenge campaign. That does it for the broadcast today.

We'll talk to you tomorrow. I believe that justice demands that we stand in the gap for the helpless. I think what we have to press for is an understanding that the slaughter of any human life is unthinkable. What I'm hopeful for is that my grandchildren and great-grandchildren will look back at this moment of history, like slavery, like the Holocaust. I stain on our history with horrible results and say, I can't believe that a culture in the United States of America did this, allowed this to happen, the taking of unborn life with callous disregard.

But I'm sure I'm glad it doesn't happen anymore. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20. A $50 gift becomes $100. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org.