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Supreme Court Will Hear Mandate Case Jan. 7th

Sekulow Radio Show / Jay Sekulow & Jordan Sekulow
The Truth Network Radio
December 27, 2021 12:00 pm

Supreme Court Will Hear Mandate Case Jan. 7th

Sekulow Radio Show / Jay Sekulow & Jordan Sekulow

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December 27, 2021 12:00 pm

President Biden is forcing private employers with at least 100 workers to make medical decisions for their employees by requiring them to get a COVID-19 vaccine or submit to weekly testing. Biden's mandate goes into effect starting January 4th, and now the Supreme Court has agreed to hear oral arguments on the constitutionality of the mandate on January 7th. Jay, Logan, and the rest of the Sekulow team discuss the upcoming case at the Supreme Court. This and more today on Sekulow .

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The Supreme Court will hear arguments January 7 on the mandate case briefs are due on the third keeping you informed and now this is pandemic upwards. We bought what is the requirement that big employers makes other workers are either vaccinated all regularly test the other requires that healthcare workers at facilities that get federal money are vaccinated here from you, Sharon, call one 800 683110 together to cover about 97 million Americans being challenged by religious labor and business some Republican states.

Now you J break this down because I to be honest I think anybody that's being fair about this, would say this is a confusing situation. What were talking about is by the ministrations of mandate that requires private employers that have more than 100 employees 100 employees or more to have in place a system where vaccinated employees would show their vaccination card nonvaccinated unvaccinated employees would be required to do a weekly test required to get a vaccine would have to be tested. The problem horses multiple problems. What is testing right now is very difficult because of the variant that is out there is because such serious concern that people are getting tested which is smart make sense get tested if you think you might have it.

The problem is not you can get tests. This is supposed to go in effect January 4 selecting what we need to do. Logan is back up what this case is about where it started and what the Supreme Court is not you do. A lot of people have lots of questions related to this and you can give us a call 1-800-684-3110 of these calls are should be on whether you're choosing to or not to get a vaccine that's not really the question in question is how does this work for an employer has worked for the employee right a situation that were coming on to him what just under two weeks under two weeks and even less that 10 days or so until this is supposed to go into effect and really the rules are blurry that there's not a lot of oversight here clarity where that's coming from a Supreme Court which could happen there or whether that's was coming from. Even just the OSHA rule let's start with what the rule is so little get into it was when the rule that OSHA put forward requires that employers over but I want more than 100 employees. That's not in one location that's in the United States. More than 100 employees. Your required as an employer to make sure your staff employees are either vaccinated or not vaccinated that they will be some that they will be tested once a week. That information be gathered and So that when OSHA doesn't audit. That's what will be reviewed so that is what is at Fairway Harry employment law mean Blahnik on that's pretty much what the lawyers yes sir, essentially about the rules suggest that you need to impose a mandate on your employees to be vaccinated or there's an exceptional allowable if they are subject to weekly testing at their expense at their expense, but that is also complicated by virtue of the point you raised earlier.

Our test reveille available at the moment and that may not be the case. It's not the case through the at-home test.

I think there are. This is where you can go to a doctor, get that done.

I love those still do exist. The prices in your insurance, it becomes a hold of the $30 at-home test in the $200 rapid or whatever. And on top of that, and we will get this in the back Supreme Court issued a series of orders, one of which requires us by the way file a brief on my plate 19) yeah so were to be working right through on that were to get into what the Supreme Court mechanism is what it's not what it looks like based on some other cases will take your calls at 1-800-684-3110 800-684-3110 we represent the heritage foundation and rent the Supreme Court right now.

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It happened during the Christmas break I we are all in text threads because obviously Supreme Court will be hearing the vaccine into cases and that's coming up. Maybe you can break down the board what are you so sorry forever whose is watching the mandate meeting the employer mandate let me explain what weekly briefly stated, what it does and what the mandate with the order from occupational safety and health ministration said is that if you will hundred employees or more. Not one location but within your company. You either have to have all your employees vaccinated every vaccinated or in the alternative, if someone's not vaccinated. They have to provide evidence of testing that they tested that week.

We don't know. It's not clear whether they test on site. It's not clear how that's done, but that is effectively and be the law as it is right now. Effective January 4 are some delays in the enforcement but that is basically all that is absolutely correct J that is the status of the law. Right now because the Sixth Circuit removed the state of the Fifth Circuit and put on the case and ruled that the vaccine mandate. If you want to call it that testing mandate went into effect, we sought to review in the Supreme Court, through the mechanism of a stay Justice Cavanaugh decided not to grant the stand referred to as all court and there is no stay in the fact. Therefore, that's the state of the law. As of this moment just what you pointed out yet so we filed along with other groups would be filed on behalf of heritage foundation. Our application for stay was now deferred to an oral argument that Take Pl., January seventh we brief that is good to be due on January 3, the government has until the 30th of this month and a few days to respond to our applications and all the other ones that were filed and it was eight or nine cases. Now the only bipartisan agreement that is been put in place plan is the resolution of the Senate. It doesn't carry the force of law but it was interesting that they did it. Well it's not to be enacted. J you're right, but that is about the only bipartisan thing happening in Washington DC right now, the Senate voted 52 to 48 just to strike down the mandate J Joe Joe mansion West Virginia John tester of Montana voted with Republicans of the vote. There was 52 to 40 8J. Speaker Pelosi is indicated she's not eating and I bring it up for a vote in the house and even if a majority could force a vote J the President can veto that. So it's not gonna resolve the issue the issues to resolve here after the case of the Supreme Court right so Abby, let's talk about what we did here so we represent the heritage foundation and we took an application first day in an alternative and a petition for explain to the audience what we've asked for them will talk about what's actually happening past the cart and Carson application for state to issue an emergency stay in line laugh.

The first action taken in this case, the Fifth Circuit, which was to initiate a stay at which West and 96 Arquette and position. Parents are Terry when asked the court to review the case. So right now what we have the was we got this is the order that the court issued and it said that the case is the consideration the applications for stay presented to Justice Cavanaugh by him referred to the court is deferred pending oral arguments only stop right there. What that means.

It normally what we would expect it was Harriet administrative stated be put in place in a justice can say you know what.

While this is being litigated. This law is going to affect January 4 as we difficult for employees can be really difficult for employers put a stay in place. Keep everything status quo until we hearing this thing expeditiously. They did not. They did not and it's very very surprising and I think it certainly throws everything up in the air because, in essence, employers need to prepare for the full enforcement of this mandate as of January 4, 2022 and then the Supreme Court will actually hear the case or at least a case surrounding the stay on the seventh so it would know today with with no stay in place and it's also compounded by virtue of the fact that there are insufficient number of test available to employees who have the burden of ensuring that they test if they are not vaccinated point that the whole at-home test are not available in the scenic in the order promotion doesn't separate the two, but you can get tested yet me. I think a lot of the stilted clinics in the different offices and well in advance of a lot of wildflowers with in the process and something takes days. If you wanted the fast rapid wanted to hundred 20 to 250 bucks to do that every week so there it is that we obviously even when the rapid test started coming to retail. They look what you do yourself a day they went pretty quickly hide a few and then they were gone. I kept you we had in the house when you could get them readily. Now they're pretty much gone everywhere.

However, you're going to see more rollout and even in the Bidens proposal speech that I will send one third of the website eventually splitting your dress yes it would be her house one so this is it is a complete mess. It is a complete mess and the easy answer.

The Sandy would the grant and a ministry of state Ministry of stay is not a decision on the merits. Just hold things in place. I understand why Jeff Cavanaugh didn't do that, the circuit justice for the Sixth Circuit have the right to simply saying to the folks listening and watching. I just want to say an administrative state just simply says stop hold everything as it is the law does not go into effect the things that this Fifth Circuit decided to grant a stay stay in effect. The overruling of that by the Sixth Circuit is reversed for the moment administratively until we can hear from the government December 30 until we can hear a reply from the petitioners that includes us January 3 until we can have oral argument which is January 7. He could've said just everybody stopping your shoes stay still and let's figure this thing out before everybody scrambling around to figure out where they get tested how they get tested how much it's going to talk all what this is going to be what that's going to be, but he did not do that and I am still curious and don't know why here's the real here's the real problem. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration ocean were breaking this down for you whether what we are. If your employee or employer calls 1-800-684-3110 800-6431 10 so OSHA said that this is what they're going to do this is when the Sixth Circuit decision came down. They said that OSHA will not issue citations for noncompliance with any requirements of ETS at the emergency order before January 10, which is only three days after the oral argument and will not issue a citation for noncompliance with the standards testing requires before February 9 so long as an employer is exercising reasonable and good faith efforts to come into compliance with the standard. So Harry, if I'm a lawyer representing a company and in their HR office on Wednesday. Look by January 4.

You need to take an reasonably good faith efforts to come into compliance absolutely so reasonable good faith compliance. That means will be a function of I think existing practice in existing law and I don't know the specifics of what that really means, but certainly it does mean that the employer has to began an affirmative effort to achieve compliance in early January they have to per the cost. We also have to incur the legal cost in terms of specifying to their employees. Keep in mind if you have 100,000 employees, you will have to communicate with all of them in order to avoid these penalties down the road when I will be cleared our audience and our supporters and and and nebula dresses.

We did ask for a stay. We've asked for a statement that the problem here is that the state wasn't denied it was postponed and the law goes into effect.

How do you read it logs into effect January 14.

I make a reasonable good faith effort.

Employers have to began all of the work necessary to comply with patient before the Supreme Court will even hear argument in this case, many as you know, then we have to wait for decision: the days of three weeks or three months, we have no idea so it's only a decision on the stay. So then epic the state is granted, it goes back to the court slogan to determine it on the merits, which in this excerpt is already determined on the merits that maybe the Supreme Court gives enough substance to it, it won't matter, but this is the difficulty and it's putting employers and employees in the top spot like a set Opera faxing you know that the mandate is just not set up easily administered especially start a minister not easily them even be administrative theory. Starting the first of the year we lift forth the your first week of the theory sounds good year.

This is what logic or just now getting back into the office even hear you were probably a court of the people are still out on here on vacation or on a family trip select some people are out because they're sick of a lot of things happening right now in the world that is causing people to not be in the office right now and I this whole change. Look, there's a whole conversation related to the left of even your remote employees and what that means, of people who are working remotely. What they don't have to beat you would have to test them, but that you can at your 109, at all, and then subject to guests in Europe about other things that have left is the people of immediate immediate Beazer look. That's why we asked for stay a lot of questions.

There are no answers to any that's probably the best we can.

We get a lot of questions, and where and what is partake in those early in the next thing folks don't forget to support the work of the American Center for Law and Justice and ACLJ.Ward wearing a matching challenge campaign we can brief you in this case on January 3, the government's brief is due on the 30th. Oral arguments are on the seven the law goes into effect on the fourth. This is complicated enough. Yes they made it less complicated not been doing this for 40 years, say you made this a lot less complicated. We think I've been doing this for four decades is an easy way to do it only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable invoice. Is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice, defendant the right to life, we've created a free and powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn Gold mission will show you how you are personally publication includes a look at all major ACLJ were fighting for the rights of pro-life activists ramifications. 40 years later Planned Parenthood's role in the history and what Obama care means to discover the many ways your membership is powering the right question mission in life today online/the American Center for Law and Justice were engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom. Protecting those faith covering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress.

ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support for that. We are grateful.

Now there's an opportunity for you to help me way for limited time you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge for every dollar you donate $10 gift becomes 20 $50 gift becomes 100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ.

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I come up here this in the next half-hour. So if you don't get is a local station are phobics are gleeful right now, they will open up.

It will give us more time to enfold a half-hour to get your calls or comments.

It is well got to calls, let's go with the orderly called okay it's Robert Maryland online one year hey Robert, you hide your know what to ask you is partly a vaccine mandate I dear I dear come from Anthony about people awful present in the body to try to impose or did it come from VP Kemal Harris vaccine development itself started under Pres. saying that the mandate and let me just get the vaccine itself was developed during the trump administration under operation warp speed.

So that's where the vaccine developed the implementation of that vaccine for the first year's not even yet I guess what, nine months has been voluntary.

A lot of people been vaccinated. I mean the vaccination numbers are in a lot of places in the 67% top the mandate to come into place was the idea. I don't know who was the originator of the mandate. Whether it was the President or Anthony possibly came from the executive branch, which is what makes it so interesting, so the executive branch of government seizing the executive branch of government decided that the way to increase vaccination to curb the virus was going to be that individual private employers with more than 100 employees would have their staffs would be tested at a minimum, vaccine preferred, so it's really it is in a sense a vaccine mandate in that you got vaccinated. The exception is if you're not vaccinated, you have to be tested weekly now how the courts can view all of this is the open-ended question, but the employers like were having this discussion here at the ACLJ I'm sure our client heritage foundation is having this everybody's having this conversation and that is what does a reasonable good faith effort mean and you know because that means I mean if you're being conservative is a lawyer means you're putting in place the things you can put in place to get it done and you have to began preparing a policy you have to distribute that policy team employees and informed them Avenue will take place beginning on January 10 so mean, you know, the court could have made this a lot easier any bike putting administrative stay in place but they didn't. Well, there is no reason in the world. In my view, not to put the stay in place. It would have simplified matters we would've known where we stood.

The law would not have taken effect until the Supreme Court ruled on it. All it had to do is require the signature of Justice Cavanaugh's the circuit judges.

It would just had everybody stand still until the court figured it out but for some reason I have no idea. Justice Cavanaugh decided not to do that and and he didn't implement and therefore were in this kind of a who knows what situation you with them coming is not obligated to issue a stay in the prudent thing to do administrative stay here maybe 150 for their two cases, actually the second case is a vaccine requirement for healthcare workers and vaccine are test mandates and private businesses with two cases. I think it's two separate arguments. I'm not look like there's two hours with arguments on the seventh but in neither case states have been granted correct so no stays or been granted on any of this.

There's no legislative moves going on right then not currently jamming.

There is one active in the House of Representatives and speaker policy would choose to call that that's the one. The Senate passed 52 to 48. We don't expect her to do that day just to be very candid with our listeners, even if the house did pass that it would go to Pres. Biden and he can veto it.

There is not vetoproof margins in either house. I will tell you this though, J. One of the things I'm hearing the most for members of Congress.

While a lot of the legal arguments are around you know that the force of law and the ability for OSHA to impose the mandate there really concerned about the economic impact here jamming is probably the worst time in the world to inject more uncertainty on to both employers and employees, and as you said, it's a murky situation, so does this economy need one more. And certainly I know the elected officials are saying no you hear the cook thing. I just cannot get my head around you been doing this for 40 years and he never said that you would know better than anybody is the truth. Administrative stay like it is not complicated. You just think they're hearing the argument in the case three days after it goes into effect issue an administrative state decide the case quickly get Bush versus Gore in today's and you have a decision by the 10th and then we figured out.

I think it was a week to figure out how to implement it. But that's not what they've done thing medical go to Philip is coming on line to in California you're on their hey Mike, really great help my situation out loud healthcare worker that works from home three years and been placed on administrative leave and looking at termination as of January 7 and drinking that I can do you with information that you share not to be terminated is the remote healthcare worker so working out of the state of California, and I know every state is different so is the is your employer putting in place for putting in place that everybody has been vaccinated, correct yeah well and their private employer in California. Very tough California legislation.

Isn't that right and has has actually meant the same thing so that there there were healthcare workers are required in California to be vaccinated, but are you and your nurse are you doing giving flight telemedicine back office worker. I work from home yet but I think it applies to all healthcare workers. We can give you advice on individual states.

Just this is but it's I'm glad you called because you know what it says loading. This is really confusing because there's a person that it would really not matter that should matter at all. I just got a notice from my insurance Company are insurance company that they have gone to remote because of that. Okay which means things are to take longer to process that I just got like five minutes five seconds ago take longer to process so that the Supreme Court initially stay sober having to deal with all of this. Now I can become.

And this is what is so ridiculous about this and I bit is pro-vaccine is there is anybody in the country on this stop me and Donald Trump. You and Donald. That's right, Donald from the underworld speed invented the vaccine really gave us the opportunity to be vaccinated into at least reduce and mitigate the VD the horrors of the disease. If you get it right you got more glitz I'll give credit where credit is due. I say that using words. It's just confusing and part of the probably taking the calls. I'm glad were doing.

Logan is some of these we just don't know the answer to some super employers over hundred and a bit but not of a location and know it's really unclear what that hundred means that 100 people is that 100 with you got guest of your part-time employees. It seems very vague.

I think that's probably these are gigantic, there's a lot of people with 100-ish people working for the is good about is confirmed, about 100.

That's a big business but that's not a gigantic business. That's not you McDonald's employing thousands, about 100 people to make a good fit with our employees that are covered by the thing that you have 100 that will just that the requirements of a but the penalties are not yet left will not only that, you also have a situation where the penalties have been ramped up. Yes, just this particular issue vis--vis other issues in the workplace imitate what this means really fighting hard to get clarity and that me and working like the holidays to do a company live in the broadcast today support the work of the ACLJ were a matching challenge campaign five days left. We are close to last year were like within 100 hundred thousand dollars of it going ahead of last year which was a big year for us so we want to go to ACLJ.org. Any amount you donate. We got people matching aclj.ortiz@aclj.org where for another 30 minutes to take calls were answered many questions we can ACLJ.

Don't forget the work of the Americas influence just as the American Center for on critical issues at home and abroad for limited time you can participate in the ACLJ matching challenge for every dollar you donate will be $10 gift becomes $20, $50 gift becomes 100 you can make a difference in protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms to you and your family. Give a gift today online ACLJ keeping you informed and now J secular and we have to live for a lot of reasons. We want to be like to be able to talk about the Supreme Court work that's going on in this vaccine mandate. We are filing a brief note on January 3 we were prepared when it was to be quite clear. We even though the order wasn't clear. Nothing in this case I will say has been clear.

We filed an application for a stay in an alternative interpretation so that the Biden administration's mandate, which we don't think can even be enforced because it's so difficult understand it, be put on hold until the spring court makes a decision on the state. They granted the agreement to hear the case. January 7. The law goes into effect January 4. Our blast briefest to January 3. The governance is due October.December 30. This is not to be confused though with the state mandates which have already been decided was by this report and let Abby explain that one because some state-supported putting mandates in the spring court already issued on that right currently before the Supreme Court that we are involved and involved a federal mandate error. There are also several state decided there and vaccine requirements and/or mandate and asked why the Supreme Court has declined to entertain any applications for stay and as to the states.

For example, New York is one of us and so we just want to clarify, there is a difference between the federal and state mandates and satisfy the Supreme Court has declined to weigh in on the state mandates yeah and there was interesting there with the was not part of that right test as score sets and Lito and Tomas and Ted and denying the application for stay in the New York State okay so that's not confusing enough. Let's try to answer some questions, because a lot of people have tried to go through these quickly, so keep lines open. I know this is listen while having to deal with this is employers employees. This is complicated. Let's go ahead John the Pennsylvania hold the longest John a line 6 John doing good work you're confused.

I know you new statement and a question.

If an emergency. Why doesn't apply to people employers over 100 to the people not matter under on general jurisdiction on matters like this. Apply the jurisdictional question of 100 employees or more that is really the way in which OSHA is set up to when they actually Andy can regulate an environment that's right, there is a prohibition against OSHA interfering in matters less than a certain number in terms of making determinations of the workplace. That's right. And one of the things that has been not raised yet J is whether we even really need to reach the constitutionality of the mandate and whether we simply focus on OSHA's rulemaking authority and avoid the constitutional issue altogether, the court could do that. Yeah I mean because any good to rulemaking, which would delay the impact of the imposition of the rule, so here's what we do know the reason we filed what we did with this report in United States. Glad that the smoke was inherent so they could listen, the court could have simply said Abby.

No applications for space denied sick circuit law in effect, that's it. Good minute right yeah they didn't take which left it in place which tells you what they think. So the fact that they've taken this I don't read anything into the substance were go, but we did accomplish that. I want to be clear, we got a positive result and that the court agreed to hear it in our case was accepted as one of the cases are enough 05 are all fine here. How are you give us a call 1-800-684-3110 heading to the excitement. We do have completely full bike calls right now were to try to get as many as possible. I also know a lot of great people calling great questions. Usually, yes.

Question 12 seconds later the answer happens, we move on. This is just a question. Five minutes later we can put as many calls we can. We know it's pretty intense to have a lot of people, but again it well.

I just opened 100 684 $0.31 for the ACLJ.or game to competence while monitoring questions online social media Facebook and YouTube.

The American Center for Law and justice were engaged in critical issues at home and abroad.

Whether it's defending religious freedom. Protecting those covering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support for that. We are grateful.

Now there's an opportunity for you to help me way for limited time you can participate in the ACLJ matching challenge for every dollar you donate $10 gift becomes 20 $50 gift becomes 100.

This is time for the ACLJ the work we simply would not occur without your generous matching challenge make protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms most important to you today online okay only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable invoice. Is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying the American Center for Law and Justice, defendant the right to life.

We created a free publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn will show you how you personally. Publication includes all major ACLJ were fighting for the rights of pro-life activist ramifications 40 years later Planned Parenthood's role in the history and what Obama care me to the many ways your membership is powering the right question free copy of mission life today online/in this because you people are asking, what can Congress do what can Congress do it.

They passed a joint resolution in the Senate but that's about it. Yeah, I mean there's a mechanism they could use the Congressional review act. They tried to initiate in the United States Senate and Sen. Mike Braun put forward a resolution.

It got bipartisan support J which is actually pretty shocking in the current state of affairs.

It passed the Senate 52 to 48 if that measure J would pass both chambers and be signed into law by the President, it would pull the regulation down. But here's the obvious problem.

Speaker Pelosi's not gonna schedule it and even if a majority of the house 218 members. In this case would sign a discharge petition and force a vote and the house would pass. It will Pres. Biden could veto it and were nowhere close to a vetoproof majority in either chamber J so that the short answer is there's a mechanism to do it, but there's just not the votes it's going to be resolved at the Supreme Court look like I said I mean it if you're vaccinated your lack of effective except if it affects your employer, they can keep the business operating in the conflict. Everybody vaccinated or not, so that the impact on this could be very significant. Like a set on promax but I'm trying to apply this as an employer is impossible right it really is impossible. Guidance takes more calls Lovett withholding for close to half an hour to Michael in Illinois on line 5 Michael yeah okay so I work for major corporation that out in Lake Forest.

We have location so we do sales and manufacturing throughout the country. I worked in the corporate office. I have not been there in the last two years working from home within the last 3 to 6 months they been initiated the corporate office is initiated. You have to have a vaccine to going to the corporate office you have to. There's no religious exemption. There's no testing out or anything like that so II cannot going to the office and so I guess I'm just wondering if just confused. I really don't need to be into the office but you know they're making his work could say to work here you have to be vaccinated means it is that simple.

Now is your religious exemption. I mean, I think those are tough cases. Really tough cases that means but a private employer certainly could say that's can be requirement the workplace and we put in the filtration system and in our offices. We didn't have to know be mandated next week is better for employees if we did it we had a mask of requirement for a period of time because we've had people we were concerned about never compromising our governor and state said we should do yeah try to apply as much on private employer has a lot more what my minutes and I can't let me quickly to decide what they want to get some that that is what that is. So let's move on calls yes okay I David who's calling similar call in California on line for line 40 on the yes thank you for taking my call on some of these, but I just wanted to maybe have no information but number one does OSHA have the constitutional authority to enforce the mandate number two by revealing one's vaccine status.

Does it violate the HIPAA laws and also if you work from home.

The mandate apply to those who let's start with the last column for home. They work for major corporation. I still required to report it. Well, that employer had a little bit that the British caller said if you were to go into the office he would have to be vaccinated and saves and loses job if he was testing yeah well here's the thing. This is a three-part question here, so doesn't violate HEPA that raises an interesting issue hippo only applies to healthcare institutions and your employer is not a healthcare institution. Having said that, it puts employer in a very awkward as an employer very awkward position to start creating these kind of records but it probably doesn't violate half does OSHA have the authority to enforce the mandate. I think they picked the wrong agency I made.

I didn't go through rulemaking. That's my be about Abby and Harry were anything on having one of the points that we raise our pre-identify the six are As you have several agencies that are vested with authority relating to vaccine rollouts that would be on the FDA, HHS, HHS, and have clearly what happened here is the administration determined that they did not have the authority for a vaccine mandate through any of these other agencies and their past shot wise, which is it's it's probably the best shot at building is a very weak argument but wasn't so weak that the six or been great but it's it's look whether OSHA has the authority, is that really can be the fundamental question and whether it was structurally, statutorily and constitutionally set up that way.

That's what's coming decided. I think that's correct and I so I think most people who look at this particular issue you look at the vaccine mandate. If you look at the testing issue.

I think most people will agree that the focal point of OSHA's quote unquote mandate whatever it is, isn't it is not focus on illnesses that are generated by going to work.

In other words, you could contract coded you. You go into a store, you talk for 15 minutes with person acts or person why and so I think that begs the question as to why OSHA did not go through regular rulemaking so that they could deal with some of the issues I think many of the callers are raising valid concerns that are not answered by reviewing all 450 pages of the emergency temporary standard. Yeah, I think the come up with a one page list of what you're getting, I think that's can happen hopefully with this restriction to Kathy in Florida aligned to Kathy you're on their going to Miami Florida and we got a letter that we strongly empathize and recommend that if not, your quiet thing like that we can get the results and I went down with no problem. Now that the new variant I can't click click I think that this is hours and hours of waiting, did nothing but my cousin she works at one of these testing facilities has for your urgent care work. I was texting with yesterday so nearly 200 people within the first few hours of the meeting opened up for a full shift yes or 200 people at about 10 to 15 minutes a person to get a test on reading about when to get the result is only about two minutes to swap to get out of their retirement. There's just not enough time on books to get him out of people that need to get test diets of these facilities that's can become the big problem and they came up with this idea this concept. That is when no one was getting testy where they were destroying totally. I will test the testing facility and ministration had the opportunity to order what was it in October.

Harry was October and they rejected a plan.

Then in place to make test widely available contrary to the experience of many European countries and so then they impose this mandate, they should have made sure testing was available widely before imposing the mandate but see what the problem with all this is and if you look at it administratively is what I don't get they put this in place, you can't cook employer to try to figure out what we do here.

Employees are trying to figure out what they do and meanwhile you got some industries where this is a real problem a serious problem.

Colloid shortages will be real. It will be very real. Especially if they're not there and and on this thing that Logan was averting to with respect to testing. I live. I know in Atlanta outside where I live, the there is a testing facility to the right of us in the cars are backed up all the way along Northside Parkway onto the ramp of interstate I 75, a major artery on the interstate I 75. Trying to get tested when there is an impossibility of performance. Those people have to get are they going to be penalized as a going to have fines imposed against them because they tried and couldn't get tested I will, I hope not.

The law says impossibility of performance should not result in negative consequences to the person we talked about that before. The problem with that is in Abby was right is you gotta hire a lawyer in a law firm to represent represents the employees and that can get very expensive very quick complication here and has and how long mandate is not really take to curb behavior by the employer and SQ carpal employees behavior and said there's a disconnect here in employer and you're being told by your employees. If there is nowhere to get a test in employer and their and our national regulation under the ETF. You're simply required to keep your employee from returning to work until their test at an exit paper that was nonproductive but they have to be in an office or a factor where it might be to work precisely can't just it's not so simple. That's create disruption which is shed crimes to be attempting to regulate here prevent the last minute of the segment. Next is because we can get, but also to go through through quickly. May we can assessment what is the actual timelines people understand January 4 January 6 the histologic rating report is when the law goes into effect. Employers have a have to have a good faith attempt at risk with exercising reasonable good faith efforts to come into compliance log wasn't affecting report. The argument of this report is January 7 stays in place of that law goes into effect. The fines are not living until February. You should have the six decisions come fairly quickly should the theory theory is that emergency made expedited review but you know I think putting employers and employees in a very very disorderly dysfunctional. Think I will try to make it here for your help. Best ACLJ outdoor sports work yet one more segment come up second only one. A society can agree the most vulnerable invoice. Is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice right to life.

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Laura will call and she worked for a company and they get so nice that works for a major insurance company and I've been working from home for eight years. However, on our house department they made it mandated that we had to get it done, click them and were fired at that point that this is both those that got fired or click I know they can't get unemployment because they typically said you didn't delete your employer tell you because you didn't get shot but it's a private employer, you know, private employers decisions do they the right to do that. The primary employer can say we are going to have a vaccine mandate and a private employer can do another may be grounds for religious exemption. I think those are very tough cases, honestly. But in private employer can do it in the states can do it as well, and the Supreme Court. Let in place a case coming out of the states and they did not intervene in that decision said that the state mandates could work constitutional. So this these. These are not folks are not easy questions and if you look at this is the hell you want to stand on understand it could end up impacting the other employers are trying to get jobs with exactly the same boat is not easy.

I get done let's get moving out of your call.

I was about six minutes. Maybe I'll get you what hundred 64 3110. No guarantees let's go to Roberta and Colorado online three mandate Island and post office employees are not under the mandate yet who are alone in the vehicle are under the mandate.

Can you explain that okay so Congress and post office. Well, this is a private employers mandate for employees of more than 100 people that would not apply to individual congressional offices. There's not a vaccine requirement.

Inside those offices, so I think the double standard is a relevant want to ask about. I'm not sure on the post office J not sure on David exemption to the post office because of the impact it would have on Postal Service delivery of the mail and it was for their businesses disruption.

That's a problem, but for everyone else's.

Doesn't matter especially with the same technical James a New York line 5 James who got their loved one dies from the mandated vaccine plaintiff's lawyer side.

I don't know but I went to get a false negative on on the persons positive on the testing and it came out negative and then they end up suing the employer saying that you maybe get this test came up negative.

All these other people exposed. Yes, this is a plaintiff's lawyer's dream. Okay because it's confusing. Confusion is great for plaintiff James Moore question] I love Amar was more if someone can't get exact offices that cannot receive vaccine have real medical medical issues that can't get any of that is what happens in that situation, they lose their job know because at this point they just get us this contest right so this is not about in that sense it's not a vaccine man. That's where the client get interesting because it isn't working on the call and maybe get a sick Susan is calling California where on patient and adult are on life support the family members cannot come in and visit because our state has mandated that everyone have a comment within 72 hours in their family members equipment after the holidays are neither children on my there's thing to my outline.

If there is available and begin to change it. The rapid cats which is notoriously unreliable out there spreading company everywhere there. They are people in power are now incompetent in my mess in California but let me let me say something okay because this is what if I had a lovely be really honest with you if I do love one that was in pediatric intensive care and I can only see them if I get the shot on the parent. I get the shot.

I don't think that's what they're saying you say that everyone has to get tested which would allow the California right now because of the omicron issues that the big events are trying to avoid question is going to be our test available. Can you actually get about one that is not alive talk about hours and hours wait a month ago was our size and employer but private doctors can give you a test immediately. Most of that avalanche are actually her primary care directive. I was the parent of that person. I would do that is practical and this and not make that you're trying to explain you something that's very difficult, as the court is really and hopefully get some clarity. I hope the Supreme Court sometime in January after the slopes already in place, but I think using common sense or two I well over into the causes this one coming up. I think if I could get anymore this week. Just people we understand it's very complicated were trying to break down the symbols again as we get more information were to get hopefully we will were still the last few days of the year comes a very important times for the work. This young Chad ACLJ.org. If you do it right now in all the receipts you'll see there is a code to watch our brand-new 10 part over for our series on the last few months of the last 20 years. The war on terror in Afghanistan coverage, the Taliban, we did some of the top names in the government. Top names are probably here as Presidential candidates coming up in the next few times really great people and really interesting deep dives. We did available right now in the only way to get it right now is to donate to ACLJ is about the December get code right now this is Logan team did a really great is a great series.

We encourage you to do it. Also, let me say this, Martin literally worked the holidays.

We are working for the holidays because we got New Year's coming up with days later we got file a brief at the Supreme Court of the United States on this mandate is for your support for the ACLJ makes that possible focus inward a matching challenge camping were the last five days.

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