Breaking news today on Sekulow as another migrant caravan, this time 19,000 plus people that the Biden administration has been warned about for months are heading to the U.S. border. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow.
Get ready, Panama's foreign minister expressing confusion over why the Biden administration was caught off guard by that huge Haitian migrant surge. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. Telling Axios that she, quote, sounded the alarm months in advance and now she's warning there are plenty more on their way. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow. All right, welcome to Sekulow.
We are taking your phone calls 1-800-684-3110. Packed show today, two ACLJ cases, one brief, one client that we're representing that we're going to get to, but we first want to get to this major national news. And also fights back against this idea that somehow the Biden administration is being caught off guard by what's happening at the border. The Panamanian foreign minister has expressed frustration speaking out to the media.
That's a big deal. When you have countries that are very reliant on the U.S. for their economics, of course, Panama now, but other activities, so much commerce going through Panama. When they speak out in a negative way to the United States, you know things have gotten particularly bad with the relationship and that they're willing to risk harming the relationship because things are so bad. This is what they had to say.
They said they were frustrated because the Biden administration acted as if they were caught off guard because, quote, we sounded the alarm when we should have. And now that same foreign minister says there's 60,000 more migrants, mostly Haitian, who are posed to make their way up to the U.S.-Mexico border. Now, let's just compare that number so far. About 85,000 migrants have passed through Panama since January. 20,000-ish of them have been Haitian. So we're talking about the biggest wave of Haitian immigrants is yet to come. And unlike the Trump administration, who would start making deals with a country like Panama, Colombia, economic incentives to house these immigrants to even relocate them potentially because they're not coming directly from Haiti. They're coming from very South America, Chile and Argentina as well. So these people are making major trek to even get there. So these countries know about it along the way. They tell the U.S., then it's all shock that they've created a migrant city underneath a bridge.
Then they clear that out. But let me tell you, that was 20,000. Imagine 60,000 for Del Rio, which the entire city's population is 20,000. Yes, so the problem here is called lack of preparation, lack of understanding, lack of being able to get your hand around the situation, and a failure of diplomacy. Let's be clear, this is also a failure of diplomacy here because one of the things that President Trump did was, as you mentioned, Jordan, he would negotiate with these countries, including economic incentives for them to house the migrants coming in to be in those countries so that we could sort it all out.
The problem here is you already have the crisis at Del Rio and you're going to add to that crisis 16,000 to 18,000 people. Now, these caravans are coming, Andy, because they think they can get in. Well, of course, they wouldn't do otherwise, even though Mayorkas and the Biden administration are saying the United States will not accept them, the United States border is not porous, it's closed, turn back, don't come.
That's ridiculous. They're expecting to come in and they're going to persist in doing this. And it is so sad to hear the Panamanian foreign minister saying, with respect to the United States, we've engaged with every single authority we can think of that we can come across to say, please, let's pay attention to this. And they've gotten no response from the United States. Because the United States right now, it appears, is incapable of responding. What's your reaction?
Quickly, Than, we got to go to a break. What's the reaction in Washington? I think most people are asking, what's the plan when this next wave hits, Jay? And if you just look at the evidence, I think the plan is, by and large, to let the men. I mean, maybe there's going to be a little bit of enforcement, but by and large, the plan from this administration is to let them in. I think the plan is going to be, we'll deal with it when we get there.
I think that there is no plan. Well, that's why the Panamanians are speaking out now, because they're saying, hey, we're telling you, so they can't play this game like we're not doing our part. And they're actually speaking out and saying the Biden administration is acting surprised when they are being told time and time again by our allies, this is what is heading your way. This is what we're dealing with. It's what heading our way to.
We'll be right back on Secular. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.
But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms. That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side.
If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org.
Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.
It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.
Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to Sekulow. So just let me just reset again, because this is a massive number when you talk about this. So if it looked like a lot to you when it was 20,000 people, most of which have been released back into the United States, or were not back into, were released into the United States. We're finding that out now, too. Most were not deported back to Haiti. There were issues there.
I heard them try to explain it on the ground. They had the earthquake. They had an assassination of their leader. There were problems with resettling people back there.
That's not really the issue, though. These were not people that just came from Haiti post-earthquake from a few months ago or the assassination of their President from a couple of months ago. These were people who had already migrated somewhere else for a better life and now decided, well, the US looks like it's wide open, so that may be better than Chile or Argentina, so let me try that. Panamanian foreign ministers saying, this Biden administration needs to stop acting like this is some surprise, that our allies in Central and South America are telling us about these caravans. They're dealing with them. But the problem is, we're not providing incentives for them to relocate the people there or to build facilities there. That's what the Trump administration was doing that stemmed a lot of this. It wasn't that there wasn't a crisis at the border. Donald Trump never was afraid to acknowledge the threat at the border and the problem that they were dealing with, but they used interesting new ways to handle the problem. So instead of saying, okay, we've got to get 80,000 people back to an island, which would be like going through an Afghanistan airlift again, I mean, that's what that would look like, an island that really can't take them in right now, why not provide countries, these countries that need people that can work, incentives to house some of these migrants?
Not all 80,000, you split this up amongst the group, and then the problem is handled. But they are unwilling, they talk about root causes all the time, they're unwilling to put their money where their mouth is on it. Well, that's because their view of root cause is climate crisis. I mean, remember what they said, do we have that bite?
I mean, we'll find that bite before the program's over. I mean, they view the root cause of the migration problem as climate change. And so it's very hard, Harry, to address a policy when you don't understand what the root cause actually is. And the root cause here is there's this impression that Joe Biden gave in his election during the campaign, just come to the United States. So these people are.
Absolutely. Listen, I'm not complaining that they're trying to get a better life, but we have laws here to do that. So President Obama has suggested that open borders is indeed unsustainable. I think the American people would indeed agree with that.
Nonetheless, the Biden administration has essentially issued advertisements throughout social media, throughout the world. Please come to the United States because our border is open. Nonetheless, DHS Secretary Mayorkas claims the border is closed.
The border is closed. I believe that the left wants open borders. But even more than that, the left wants compliance. This move, in terms of having an open border, is consistent with the totalitarian demon, which is alive and well in many democracies throughout the world. It's clear beyond question, as Panama's foreign secretary, Erica Muñez, observes, Panama and other countries have raised the alarm months and months ago. But the Biden administration has ignored reality. So basically, what do we have now?
We have a border crisis that President Biden is simply comfortable with. Well, here's what here's what Mayorkas said. Let's play this again.
Play this. We have not seen before such a rapid migration, irregular migration of individuals, as we have observed and experienced with respect to the Haitians who've crossed the border in Del Rio, Texas. That has been an unprecedented speed. Well, OK, why has that happened? Well, you know, to find out that these were not people that immediately left Haiti after the earthquake. They had been in Mexico and other countries for a long time. Apparently, that's the case. So he makes these statements. These are unprecedented.
We just can't believe the numbers. But Wes, you served in the military. You have to have a battle plan. I mean, you've got to have a plan. And there's no plan. There's not only no plan. You have to assess the battlefield situation somewhat correctly.
And the assessment's not even there. I mean, this border that is closed has tens of thousands of people crossing a closed border. And here's the thing, talk is cheap. Their actions are saying to the people from South America and Haiti and other places, if we get to the border and get across, there's a good chance we'll be able to stay. And unfortunately, they are quite correct. Out of all those Haitians under the bridge, 12,000 were released into the US with either notices to appear or notices to report, even though we know that over half of them never do that. They were released, tested for COVID only if they were symptomatic.
They were not required to get COVID vaccinations. And so ICE normally would track these people down if they didn't come back. In February of this year, President Biden instructed ISIS in an order. They were not to ever track these people down unless they were a national security threat on the terror watch list or they were convicted of a violent felony. But they released them without knowing either of those things. But see, that's what's so absurd, the idea that you would say, okay, now go find the ones that were national security when they were in your custody. Yes.
Andy. Yeah. Well, the whole thing is absurd. The idea that you're going to give a Haitian or any immigrant who is a migrant who's coming to the United States a court date and you expect them to return, that's ridiculous. We give court dates to American citizens and know that they're not going to return to those court dates. We even give them bond as an incentive because they might lose their property or have to pay money and they don't return. What is the incentive for a person who's been given a summons to return to a court date, especially said to come back to that court date? I submit there is no incentive and they're not going to adhere to those court dates once they get dispersed into the population.
Guess what, Jay? They're gone. They're in this country. They become assimilated. You'll never see them again.
COVID and all. They're not going to have a voluntary report for their hearings? I don't think so.
And they know that ICE is not going to look for them now. Yeah, of course not. So, you know, Thanh, is there any legislative talk at all going on here?
Yeah, there is, Jay. I mean, there's been some pending for quite a while offered by Marsha Blackburn and Elise Stefanik in the House, Jay, would essentially put the migrant protection protocols back into place. And look, I know people say shake their heads and say, well, of course, this administration is not going to put the Trump policies back into place. But look, the policies were working and the policies really just simply said, we're going to make these process, these applications while you're waiting on the other side of the border.
We're going to confirm who you are. Maybe you'll get in, maybe you won't, but we won't just arbitrarily release you and expect you to return. I mean, Jay, we've got to learn from history here.
I mean, when this happens, when you release someone into the interior with an NTA or an NTR, by and large, many of them don't reappear. So legislatively, Jay, although they don't need a lot of this authority, if they wanted to, those bills are there pending. But here you go to root causes, right, Jordan, that's what they want to talk about.
So here's Vice President Harris. This was in the Conference of Americas back in May. And then there are the long standing issues, the root causes. And I'm thinking of corruption, violence and poverty, the lack of economic opportunity, the lack of climate adaptation and climate resilience. OK, I mean, do you think that let's take a survey of the 20,000 people that are about to come over to our border and say, is it corruption? Maybe. Is it violence? Well, could be poverty.
Maybe. Is it climate adaptation and climate resilience? I'd like to, I'd like these individuals to define that. I mean, not to make fun of anybody, but that's, it's just living in La La Land. It is La La Land.
And what happens when you live in La La Land, but the real world's going on is bad things happen because she's going around doing interviews where the kit, the test of people for COVID live on the set. She's got time for that, but I guess doesn't have time for the Panamanian foreign minister who is telling them that, hey, has now told the country publicly, instead of handling diplomatically, there's another 60,000 of these people coming your way. And what would you like us to do about that?
You're the superpower. We are not. They're coming to your country.
They're just passing through ours. So if you're not going to provide the incentives, it's not like Panama is just going on their own goodwill, resettle 60,000 people. Also, those people don't really want to be resettled there.
You'd have to go in with a program. And a plan. A plan so that people know this is a good place to be. You're going to have economic opportunities, be part of the culture, get your, you've got to make sure, one of the wild things too, I remember from America's testament was they're not testing by for COVID. My people probably heard me this week because I've had a little bit of a tickle in my throat and a little bit of congestion.
I think I've taken four or five of the at-home tests to protect everybody we're in the studio with every day to make sure. Yet, we got 60,000 people living in tent cities who definitely haven't been vaccinated. And now they've said at least 20% of them had it. Well, that's at least 20% of 20,000 people that they're now in a city that's only got 20,000 people in it.
Now that doubles the size of a city, which means double the impact on their health systems, the schools, the police, everything, I mean, businesses, streets. So we're being told again, this is happening. So in a month from now, when there's 60 more, 60,000 more Haitians at the border, do not buy, oh, this is, we've never seen anything like this before.
This is unbelievable. It's not, they're telling you, they're telling you and they're giving you time to do something about it. It's just that the solutions that work, they don't like politically. So instead they're going to talk about, I mean, climate adaptation and resilience, whatever that means for those Haitian immigrants.
I don't think that's what they're thinking about. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.
Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.
But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.
That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work.
Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Welcome back to Secular Shifting Gears here. We're going to have two of these different topics ACLJ is working on. We've been talking about some of these national issues and what's going on. But we want to remind you about the work of the ACLJ. And one of these cases is a classic American Center for Law and Justice case. It involves a big company.
I'm sure a lot of you know Belk or everybody we're listening to and the stores. We also know at a time when a lot of these retail outlets are having a tough time getting anyone to work any hours, we've got a situation. Abby Sutherland, senior counsel, is on the phone with us now. And Abby, we've got a situation where someone willing to work was terminated and their religious exemption ignored.
That's right. She wasn't just terminated. She was actually retaliated against. And then they accused her falsely of falsifying company documents because they did not like the letter that her pastor had submitted in support of her request for religious exemption. So let me ask you this, Abby. So our client works for Belk Department.
And I like Belk. I've always thought them to be a good company. I know they've had some economic hard times. She's worked there for over a decade. What was the situation? What was she asking for? Well, she's worked there for over a decade, and she has always received the Sabbath off. And so this summer in July, her manager came to her and said, you're going to need to resubmit a request for religious exemption if you want to continue to work on the Sabbath. She wasn't given an explanation as to why. She's almost a full-time employee.
So she was working many hours per week. So when she inquired as to the reason, they didn't provide her reason. They threatened actually to reduce her hours if she didn't agree to work on the Sabbath. So I don't think this is a case where they were needing her because of a reduced number of employees at the department store. Yeah, they were threatening to reduce her hours. So Belk requested more information at one point. What did they request?
They did. They requested a letter from her pastor, which she then submitted, and they rejected. They asked for a letter from the pastor. The pastor submits the letter. Belk rejects the pastor's letter.
Yes, yes. What was the basis of rejecting it? Well, they could not Google her church or her pastor because it is a home church. A home church has been operating for more than 24 years. And so they didn't think that the pastor is legitimate and that her request was therefore not legitimate. So the department store chain is deciding whose pastors are legitimate, what home churches may not be legitimate. I mean, are they going to do a denominational check next?
I mean, this is absurd. Yes, I mean, we talk about home churches all the time in the foreign contests, especially in places like China, where people are persecuted. But we forget that when we talk about that, that things exist here. And with COVID, people were doing a lot of home church. And you don't have employers decide that your church is the right kind of church, or you have the right kind of pastor.
And what's always shocking to me is they put this down. In writing, of course. We researched her church.
It's not that we couldn't find enough information at the church. She falsified information. I mean, that is what they're, like Abby said, they didn't just fire her. They're accusing her of lying and falsifying information. She is 72 years old, African-American woman who's worked there for over a decade. So did they also put on the notice of termination, even though we have all this correspondence that was about her faith?
Unsatisfactory performance, Abby. That's right. They did. They said the associate will be separated from the company for breaking a company policy. And the company policy is falsifying documents. And they're saying she falsified documents because... Let me get this right. When questioned about this, you stated the church was organized and met at someone's house. And that's not enough for them, for Belk?
That's correct. She even provided the phone number for her pastor. And her pastor was happy to speak with Belk management. I'm going to talk to...
Okay. I'm going to talk to Wes Smith, who happens to be a colonel, retired in the United States Army, but also a pastor. I mean, I can't even believe a department store chain who's dying for employees right now would be questioning the nature of her church and her pastor. I dealt with these kinds of issues frequently in my 26 years in the army. Religious convictions that somehow or other it affects your duty. And I think the standard, Jay, is the same in the civilian world as it was in the military, because that standard was you don't even have to go to church. The standard is, is it a deeply held religious conviction? That's really all you have to prove.
Yeah. And also the requirement is that they make a reasonable accommodation. So what's the status of the case right now, Abby? We issued a demand letter on September 13th. I had received just a basic response, acknowledging receipt of that letter from Belk's legal department. So we are awaiting a full response, which they have promised to provide. In the meantime, our client has actually received unemployment benefits.
The unemployment office also determined independently that she was wrongfully terminated. So, Andy, you're looking at the demand letter here. What do you think is going to happen here? Well, I think it's an outrage on the part of Belk because, you know, I think of the early Christian church. I'm a historian of early church history. I mean, the early Christians did not meet in organized churches.
They met in catacombs under the streets of Rome secretly. Their pastors went incognito because they would be persecuted if they said that they were Christians. And they were terminated literally if they were found out to be Christians, okay? And here is a woman who goes to a church and a house.
What's wrong with that? Any place where three or two or more are gathered in my name, I am there, Christ said. So he is there among them. Christ is in our midst.
He is and was and ever shall be. And because the pastor did not appear on Google on the internet, you say that he can't be a pastor and you can't be a church and you can't hold a deeply held religious belief. This is something that the ACLJ is going to fight on her behalf very vehemently. We've issued this letter.
I've read it. I think it's a violation of her Title VII rights. It's a violation of her constitutional rights to religion.
And this is a horrible thing that Belk is doing. I mean, it's shocking that right now when we know that people can't get work, they're saying basically, name your hours at businesses like this. Oh, they're dying for employees.
And so as someone who's worked a decade there, her religion's not good enough. Yeah. Even though for a decade, no issue. All right, so let me ask you this. I want to ask, well, what's the next move? We got the letter. We wait for the response. If they don't respond, file with the EEOC? Yes, we have 60 days to file with the EEOC. And then as you know, they can determine whether they want to take the issue on, or whether they want to issue a right to sue letter to us. If they issue the right to sue letter, folks, that means we can bring a lawsuit on her behalf.
And then if the EEOC takes up the case, that would be a very different story. All right, Abby, we appreciate it. Thanks for the update on that. And I think this shows this is important as we close the first half hour of the broadcast out. In the second half hour, by the way, we're going to talk more about this crisis at the border, but we're also going to talk about another case that we're doing on the life issue.
So you're seeing the full ramifications of the work of the ACLJ. You certainly saw that yesterday. While we were on the air, I was doing a hearing before the House Ways and Means Committee on IRS abuse. And then, of course, I was able to come on the air and we were able to do all that.
Again, I said it yesterday because of these incredible facilities that we have that will allow us to literally multicast. Literally, we were coming to you live from this radio studio where I am right now. And then the team was here.
My seat was empty. I was next door in another studio, zoomed into a hearing in Washington, D.C. in the House Ways and Means Committee that our team were able to put up. You were able to see clips from that live.
And then I was able to walk from the studio where I was doing that taping right to here. Yeah, I mean, this is, again, because of your support for the ACLJ, we're able to do, of course, the work, represent our clients at no cost to them, but able to also participate, have a live congressional hearing, live broadcast, all going on at the same time from the same facility. Your support to the ACLJ matters. It matters in many different ways. It matters to represent the clients.
It matters to do the work that we do to put out this information. You can always support our work at ACLJ.org. It takes a couple of minutes to make a donation online there. ACLJ.org. Be right back.
Second half hour coming up. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today.
ACLJ.org. Just to reset a little bit, so we just talked about a new case representing that employee at Belk, and again, you hope that this comes to the right conclusion quickly, but we're ready to do whatever is necessary for our client. We have talked about the migrant surge. There's a new surge coming. Unlike the Biden administration, we're not going to be shocked and, oh my gosh, I can't believe, because we're reading the reports. We're reading the news. We're seeing what the foreign ministers of these Central American countries are saying, and they are saying, this is coming.
And guess what? It's three times the amount of people that you dealt with last time, which remember, the Biden administration was getting all the criticism. So suddenly, all those people disappeared, and where did they go? The vast majority were just released into the United States.
So that was 20,000-ish to 25,000. We now know there's another 60,000 people on their way, again, primarily Haitian, who have been living in South America, see the border as wide open and say, this is our chance to get to America. I mean, so we are, again, an administration that's unwilling to use procedures and policies and plans that worked just because it was the Trump administration. I think Americans are probably sick and tired of, if something worked because it was the Trump administration, they can't use it, which is ridiculous.
And that is how they operate. I feel like if it worked under Trump, if it was even a good, take out all the politics, if it happened under him, they feel like they can't even use it as an option. Well, you looked at that with the Abraham Accords. They should be building on top of the Abraham Accords right now.
Nothing going on in the Middle East other than these Vienna talks with Iran, which are a joke and ridiculous, but as you mentioned, look, the crisis at the border is real. We've got a Freedom of Information Act request out there. And what is the status of all of that? Because we've asked about the change of these policies.
Yeah, it's going to have to be fought out in court, Jay. I mean, they're not going to voluntarily give us the information, but we want to know why they reverse policies that we're working in. I mean, I think, honestly, Jay, maybe the most alarming thing that we're asking for is why they suspended Operation Talon, which was the effort that the Trump administration had going to track down those who were illegally present in the United States who were guilty of sexual offense, Jay. So, I mean, the idea that you would shut down a criminal investigation like that, an operation to remove those people from the country, I think it probably tells you all that you need to know. And by the way, just to underscore something that Jordan said, there were a lot of folks that were in that camp at the border that were asked, why did they come now? And Jay, they came because they thought they were going to be released into the interior.
So if it worked, of course, more are going to come. So Operation Talon, of course, was dismantled by the Biden administration, which was horrific because it involved everything from sex trafficking and these kinds of things and violent crimes. And they did away with the program.
And Andy, you're a former prosecutor. I don't understand for a moment why that was deemed to be a good idea. Well, because it was a good idea under President Trump.
That's why. Anything that President Trump did that was successful, anything that President Trump did that was good, that was effective, that had efficacy, that worked, was considered to be wrong. No matter what the outcome may be, if Trump did it and Trump decided it and Trump implemented it, then it's wrong and we're going to reverse it. We're not going to put anything in its place. We're going to let the chips fall where they may.
But if President Trump did it, it's got to be wrong. But, you know, you think about this from, you know, I'm trying to figure out here with a minute and 20 seconds to go, what is the policy? What is the policy here? Come in, we'll let you go?
I think that is correct. So basically the Biden administration, which has had a distinguished history in a very short period of time of celebrating failure, is celebrating the failure of its border policy. Why? Because this is an intentional policy on the part of the Biden administration to actually improve the long term voting results for the Democratic Party. But it also creates a humanitarian crisis. It creates a humanitarian crisis, a moral crisis. You know, the remaining Mexico policy, Jay, was common sense. It was also humanitarian.
It avoided the kind of scenes that we saw under that bridge in Del Rio for the last two weeks where people are suffering. All right, folks, we come back. We've got a new case, too, we're filing in involving Tennessee. You know, we talked about Mississippi, South Dakota, Texas, Tennessee as well, with a heartbeat bill that we are fighting alongside Tennessee. Ed White will be joining us to talk about that as we just filed the brief of that case to the Court of Appeals. As always, go to ACLJ.org so you can find out about all of this work that we're doing online.
We'll be right back. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.
But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.
That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life changing work.
Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.
It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift.
Welcome back to Secular. We're joined now by Senior Counsel Ed White, another case, talking about all the cases we're involved in fighting for life. We've talked about Mississippi.
We've talked about Texas. Of course, we are representing the governor of South Dakota and the state of South Dakota in their case. And then a new case we've filed, not a new case, but a new filing today. This is in the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals out of Tennessee. Tennessee has a heartbeat bill. And attached to that is also the abortion, knowingly performing abortions that target children because of their race, sex, or if they have Down syndrome. So targeted abortions based off that. And that is now headed to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals.
Ed White's joining us now. Yeah, Ed, let's kind of put a framework on this. What exactly are, what is the issue that is being challenged? Well, first of all, what's the status of the law once it was enacted? The Tennessee law, after it was enacted, the abortion industry, Planned Parenthood, etc., filed a lawsuit and a judge enjoined the enforcement of the statute. The state of Tennessee took an appeal to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. And about a week or so ago, a divided Sixth Circuit, so a two to one decision, upheld the injunction and said that the statute in particular with regard to Down syndrome race and gender abortions was vague. The state of Tennessee last week filed what's called a petition for rehearing en banc, which is asking the full court of appeals, not just the three judges, but all of the active judges to consider the case. And today we filed an amicus brief in support of the state of Tennessee, asking the full Sixth Circuit to review this case and to allow the Tennessee law to go into effect.
Now, of course, en banc review, Ed, is discretionary. Based on the makeup of the entire Sixth Circuit, how do you feel about the chances of getting full review here? And if not, does this case go to the Supreme Court?
I think the chances are good for full review. Thanks to President Trump, the Sixth Circuit has many good conservative judges. If it does not take the case en banc, then I think the chances are high that it goes to the Supreme Court. What's interesting about this case, Jay and Jordan, is that a few months ago, the Sixth Circuit en banc, the full court upheld an almost identical Ohio law that prevents abortions just because a child, preborn child, may or may not have Down syndrome.
So you have a situation where the Sixth Circuit, which also controls Ohio, is allowing an Ohio law to go into effect, but not the Tennessee law, which is virtually identical. Ed, it's interesting what I'm seeing, especially politically, but of course these laws are getting passed, is that all across the country, for the first time maybe in this whole battle for life, we're just seeing a renewed effort to pass new laws, kind of looking at it in new ways, whether it's the way South Dakota was looking at it or the way Mississippi is looking at it. They all kind of have this unique approach, and the states are willing to fight. The state legislatures, the state AGs, the governors, all these elections have mattered because they've put in place, Ed, so that we're not just standing alone out there trying to fight these battles. We're backing up states now who've got massive resources as well, and you've seen, as you talked about, the second part of that too, because of elections, changes in the federal judiciary.
Most definitely. The states are fighting, and it's very important, I mean, we talk about this all the time in the ACLJ, but you are dealing here with the most critical issue we're facing, life and death of children. And states are coming forward, they are trying to pass laws to challenge the Roe v. Wade, the Casey decision, to get the Supreme Court to understand that its previous decisions were incorrect. That is what is remarkable about the dissent in the case we're dealing with here in the Sixth Circuit, which was by a President Trump appointee, is calling out the error in the Supreme Court decisions that allowed or created what is a fake right to abortion that does not exist within the Constitution. And he has called for, just as Justice Scalia did, that this matter should be resolved at the state level. It should not be resolved by federal judges.
So there's a lot coming here, I mean, when you look at this, Andy, 2021, you're starting to see these move through. We know that the case out of Mississippi is going to be heard. It's on the merits of the Supreme Court. But there's so much movement happening, and I think that the abortion industry is feeling, I mean, some of these states, like Texas, effectively, abortion has been ended in a huge state.
You're right, Jordan. What has happened is the states are thinking outside the box. They're taking cases that traditionally they would handle a certain way, like Texas, and saying, well, a private individual has a right now to file a lawsuit to preserve life. And I wanted, Ed, to specifically ask you to please, I want to call out and praise the dissenting opinion of Judge Thapar in the Sixth Circuit opinion, because I, in decision, because I thought it was so well reasoned. Could you just talk about Judge Thapar's dissent? That was a Trump appointee who disagreed with the majority in that panel.
Yes, most definitely, Andy. His decision is remarkable in that he did not pull any punches. He comes out and says that the two-judgment majority, who were both appointed by President Clinton, wrote a decision to serve at the altar of abortion.
I think those were his terms. That this is what we've always called the abortion distortion decision. The two judges who were appointed by Clinton, in their final paragraph of the decision, although they said they are not being judicial activists, noted that they are alarmed by decisions coming out of the courts, especially the Sixth Circuit, which is upholding a right to life. And Judge Thapar, he went through, he explained how the Roe v. Wade, the Casey decisions are built upon nothing and explained that he has to follow those decisions as a lower court judge, but that it is time for the Supreme Court to re-examine those two decisions and to depart from them and to end this created right to abortion. And if these matters need to be resolved, they need to be resolved by state legislatures that can make decisions based upon what the people of those particular states want, just like as we see now in South Dakota, which has always been very strong pro-life. South Dakota says this is how things should be done here, because this is what our people want. And that is the way the founders designed this country, is for the states to be laboratories of experimentation, to see what works doesn't work as we move towards a more perfect union, and especially when you're dealing with the right to life of innocent children who are being slaughtered in this country and throughout the world, and particularly nowadays because of screening, if they have Down syndrome, the odds of them being aborted are astronomical. In Iceland, I think it's almost 100% diagnosis of Down syndrome or possible Down syndrome abortion.
It's going on across the country and here in the United States, it's in the upper 60% where people are aborting their children just because they may have Down syndrome. And that is wrong. There's no other way to look at it. We're fighting back on it, and I think it's a unique time. It feels like a different time.
Wes, you look at this. It feels like this is a moment. These states are seizing the moment. The pro-life movement is seizing the moment. And I saw two former heads of Planned Parenthood on TV this morning.
They know the pressure is on them, too, to protect their business. Yeah, this is the moral issue of our lifetime. It will make future discussions about controversial issues like the death penalty pale into insignificance. What we're debating, when you look at these laws, at what point can we prohibit an abortion? The debate is not only whether to kill an innocent human being, but at what point in their life it is OK to kill them. And that's a horrible debate to even be having. Yeah.
I mean, so, Ed, I just appreciate, as always, you coming on to explain this to everybody. Again, ACLJ taking action. Go to ACLJ.org, the blog is up, the brief will be there as well so you can see what we're filing.
But these are so important. I mean, when you put it all together, I mean, I would go to Than in Washington, D.C., because Than, this is happening at the state level, but obviously the federal courts play this unique, very important role. So we've seen the increase in judges who are much more open to a pro-life position, I'd say, in the federal courts, plus governors who are not afraid to fight back against Planned Parenthood. They're not buying. They used to drag their feet sometimes, even quote-unquote pro-life governors, because this costs state resources.
No more. The people who elect these governors are saying, fight it out. Yeah, and I think creativity in the states, Jordan, I mean, I would say two things. The first one you've already said, I mean, life is winning because we can see the development of life in the womb. But I think the other reason that life is winning, Jordan, is because think about the crazy radical position that the pro-abortion industry is now forced to defend. They're forced to defend the ending of a life where there's a heartbeat present, or because of the race or the gender, or as Ed talked about, the presence of a diagnosis of Down Syndrome. Jordan, that is not a position that the vast majority of the American people agree with. And so if the pro-abortion industry is out of step with the vast majority of the American people, guess what? They're going to lose in the end.
You know, I was thinking about this. We're fighting in Tennessee. We're representing the people of the state of South Dakota and the governor, Governor Noem, in the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals.
So, folks, front and center, these states are doing creative things. We're there to defend them. And as Jordan said, the people want to be defended, and we're able to do it at no cost to the states because of your support to the ACLJ, ACLJ.org.
Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.
It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, a play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.
Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.
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ACLJ.org. And welcome back to Sekulow. I get to take your phone calls to your thoughts, 1-800-684-3110. I just wanted to say, look at the week. I mean, it's only Thursday, but look at the week we've had at the ACLJ. I mean, you think about all the activities that we had, you know, and I think yesterday, again, I go back to it was kind of the perfect example of everything working in place. And then those of you that are watching this on our social media platforms or listening to us, of course, on radio or podcasts, whatever it might be, I mean, yesterday was a pretty interesting day for us because here's what happened. We had a hearing before the House Ways and Means Committee at 11 o'clock Eastern, excuse me, yeah, 11 o'clock Eastern time. And we were hoping initially that it would be over with by the time radio hit.
Well, it did not. Now, I am doing that hearing in the room next door. I wish we had a camera in there. I could have showed you the studio. I don't know if we have any pictures of the studio.
I'd put it up. We have a separate studio for those kinds of things. At the same time, because the hearing went late, kept going, we were broadcasting.
Our team, Jordan was leading the team here. Everybody was on set broadcasting out of the studio next door. Simultaneously going to radio stations, social media platforms, and television all over the world and at the same time going to link to Washington, D.C. for a hearing before the House Ways and Means Committee of the IRS.
Now, that's all going on at the same time. We had Cruz behind the glass here. We had Cruz in the studio right next door. Then it was over at about almost the halfway point of radio. I walk over during the break and come into the radio studio where then we could tell you exactly what happened in a major hearing that we just had in Washington, D.C. via Zoom. Again, none of this happens without you.
None of the preparation manual that I had, the trial notebook that was that big, or the broadcasts themselves, or the ability to broadcast it to Washington without your support. I want to say thank you. I know we've got clips of the hearing yesterday up everywhere, but I thought this would be a good day as we're ending the month in just the days ahead. Thank you.
Thank you. Your support of the ACLJ this year, every year, but this year especially, has been frankly incredible and we appreciate it. I had a question for everybody here, and I wanted to start with you, Jordan, on the political side of all of this, the immigration thing. Countless administrations, and we've worked with them, you've worked for them, have tried to solve this immigration crisis. That's right, and I think the administration that's had the most success is the one who did it not through Congress, but through the executive power that already exists in the present, foreign policy, diplomatic power, thinking outside the box. It wasn't all about, we need to pass laws here, though President Trump had that on the table, a law that would have legalized millions of people, brought them out of the shadows, to finish the wall. Democrats said no to that, but they didn't just say, okay, well, we can't do anything else. So they started working diplomatically, and people laughed.
Remember people laughed at Remain in Mexico? They acted like these countries are not sophisticated enough, that if they're partnering with the US and we provide an economic incentive, that they have the security apparatuses and infrastructure to provide for these people and kind of figure out where they can best go. So you put them in a new place. So you're talking about relocating 60,000 people. You don't have to relocate them all to the same city.
So you take where are the needs in Central America, where are the needs in South America, and it worked. But when you cut off that relationship, all these countries can really do is warn you. And now they're saying, even those warnings, the administration acts like they are caught off guard and surprised. So this time around, in a month from now, or however long this group takes to get there, 60,000 plus, so three times the amount that were there before, no one buy the whole idea of, oh, we're caught off guard, this is record speed, record numbers. These people don't get there overnight.
You can watch these caravans. They're moving through multiple countries, violating all kinds of international law. Basically, at this point, not one of them could make a legitimate asylum claim. And I don't say that to be heartless, but you cannot pass through a dozen countries and then wait to make your asylum claim in the United States. Of course, that's what international law looks down on.
It says, even if you had a legitimate claim, you lost the right to give that claim. Because you went to countries you could have claimed asylum. You've been living in Chile for 15 years, a lot of these people. They had already been relocated. This is immigration. This is not asylum. And the problem with asylum is that you get released back. I mean, Will Haines said they found refugee cards from Chile at the Del Rio camp.
Harry, I'd said this, I'll ask you the same thing. So it's been multiple administrations, Republican Democrats have tried to wrestle with this issue. And I think President Trump was probably the most successful at it because he's used a completely different approach. But this is not going away.
I think that is correct. And to piggyback on what Jordan has suggested, I think President Trump has actually looked at proactively heading off the problem before it grows. Instead, the Biden administration appears to be shocked, shocked, and surprised that open borders incentivize a flood of illegals. Keep in mind that the DHS secretary has indeed claimed that the border is closed, but now we are flooded with migrants and up to 20% of the illegals are suffering from a disease. That is according to the DHS secretary.
And so it becomes certainly outrageous to think about that. While American citizens are increasingly facing a vaccine mandate, virtually none of the 1.5 million illegals have been tested for COVID or other diseases. This is simply a Biden super spreader of disease, sex trafficking, and human suffering. Will also points out that when they found those refugee cards from Chile, which means they've already been granted some kind of status. But I don't want to ignore the humane side of this, Wes. I feel terrible for these people, but I feel terrible for the way the American, the United States government is handling it.
When you send a message to people that this is going to be an easy thing to come to America and get across, and it's not, and they die along the way, and they get subject to human traffickers and sex traffickers, that's not humane either. Here's the thing about the Biden administration. They canceled all of the previous administration policies, but they didn't put anything in their place.
That's the problem. The wall was canceled and yet the wall was working partly. The remain in Mexico, which was a humane thing to do rather than have them living under a bridge. We also tied our aid to the Northern tribal countries, to them helping us by policing their own borders. You know, all these policies like that, you know, the Mexican law enforcement and soldiers helped us out.
We had rapid deportation. Every one of those things, Jay, were canceled by the Biden administration. But Andy, if you don't have laws and rules and regulations and policies, none of this works.
No, and you have to have them. We're a nation of laws and rules and regulations and policies. We've worked that way since the beginning of the republic. The President and President Biden and his administration have simply rejected the Trump implementations because they're Trump implementations.
And that's it. They have nothing to supersede them, nothing to put in their place, nothing to substitute except words and lies. I mean, President Obama agrees.
Take a listen. We're a nation state. We have borders. The idea that we can just have open borders is something that I think, as a practical matter, is unsustainable.
That was, again, two days ago for President Obama. Agree. You know, I mean, but the idea is that you see his hesitancy.
It still is like hesitancy. It's like, well, we wish we could have those open borders. And when you act like you wish you could have the open borders, you don't put policies in place that really close the border because you feel bad or whatever.
It's just a policy issue. And then you create humanitarian nightmares, whether it's trafficking for labor, teenage boys, sex trafficking, or just people dying on these journeys, harrowing journeys, because they think what they're being told by these smugglers is this is the time to go. And until we change our policies, it looks like this is the time to go. This is the easiest time to cross the border in recent history. They're letting you out.
And if you're part of one of those flood groups, it makes it even more likely that you're going to get into America and be forgotten about. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today. ACLJ.org
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-08-18 10:01:14 / 2023-08-18 10:25:55 / 25
