Fauci Backtracking on Covid Origin?

Today on Sekulow, was President Trump right about the origins of COVID-19 as now Fauci and of course the mainstream media along with him begin to change their tune and question whether it was lab created by China. We'll talk about that and more today on Sekulow.

Call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow. Let me read this from you. This is Washington Post, February 17, 2020. Senator Tom Cotton keeps repeating a coronavirus conspiracy theory that was already debunked. New York Times, February 17, same day. Senator Tom Cotton repeats fringe theory of coronavirus origins. Scientists have dismissed suggestions that the Chinese government was behind the outbreak, but it's the kind of tale that gains traction among those who've seen China as a threat.

Okay. Washington Post today, 2021. How the Wuhan lab leak theory suddenly became credible. Well, then it suddenly became critical because let's do this flashback.

Here's Anthony Fauci in May of 2020. Take a listen. If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, it's very, very strongly leaning towards this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated, the way the mutations have naturally evolved.

A number of very qualified evolutionary biologists have said that everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that it evolved in nature and then jumped species. All right. That was Fauci in 2020 saying, no, no, no, they couldn't have created this, the Wuhan lab. Now, of course, the Wuhan lab, if they were transparent, they would just be able to tell the world, right?

The Chinese government, but they won't do that. He's then asked again, 2021, this month, May, Dr. Fauci changing his tune, all those articles saying, you know, it was conspiracy theories that Donald Trump was lying, that he was spreading a conspiracy, an anti-China conspiracy. We'll take a listen to Dr. Fauci this month. So I wanted to ask, are you still confident that it developed naturally? No, I'm not convinced about that. I think that we should continue to investigate what went on in China. I mean, so dad, this is to me, I mean, in May of 2020, last year exactly, CNN's headline was Anthony Fauci just crushed Donald Trump's theory on the origins of COVID-19. And now in May of 2021, he is putting new life into the theory that in fact, we may be right, those of us who suspect this was lab created.

So what's clear is it's not, does not appear to have been accidentally created in a wet market in Wuhan, China. Instead, the evidence is now starting to point to the fact that the Chinese Communist Party, which runs the Wuhan lab, of course, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, was working on this intentionally. Now, whether they leaked it out intentionally to cause a world pandemic, that evidence hasn't come yet.

That would be steps down the road. I don't know if it'll end up showing that, but that's exactly why an investigation needs to happen. Because if this was a weaponized virus, which certainly, you realize more people have died in the United States than American soldiers died in World War II. I mean, that's how significant this has been.

And that's just the United States of America. So when everybody was belittling Donald Trump and saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's incorrect, it's a conspiracy theory, here was the problem. It wasn't a conspiracy theory.

He had, of course, the President had access to information we didn't have, and that Anthony Fauci probably did not have. And the fact of the matter is now they're all backtracking. This is the beginning of determining what happened. Because if China is, in fact, responsible for an intentional act, that changes the geopolitical framework. And we'll talk about that with Mike Pompeo later in the broadcast. And the fact that they were just hiding it, I think, could change whether or not they intentionally leaked it or not.

But this is how you get to that next step. That you have the leaders, you have the media, now accepting of the idea that China did create this at the lab. And next you have to figure out, was it a leak, and was it intentional? And there's severe consequences, both of those. If it was a leak, this lab should be shut down, China should be sanctioned, because they didn't report this info to the world, even though they would have known it.

And if it was intentional, we're talking about a whole different world of issues that China should be facing. We'll take your calls, 1-800-684-3110. Mike Pompeo will be joining us in this first half hour. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms. That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side.

If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org.

Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to Secular. We are taking your phone calls 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. This is the New York magazine, how the liberal media dismissed the lab leak theory and smeared its supporters. And you can also point out that was an election year that smeared its supporters.

I mean, you can go down the list from the New York Times, CNN, you know, crushing Donald Trump's theory, and there's one on Pompeo, New York Times, May 7th, Pompeo ties COVID to China Lab despite spy agencies' uncertainty. And now you have, of course, if Dr. Fauci says no, he thinks there should be more investigation done to see if it was done at the lab, then suddenly, oh, well, he speaks that. That must be right. Even though a year ago he totally dismissed that theory. He said no, it was a wet market and that's where it came from and it came from the bat. Now, what's interesting about this is Anthony Fauci said he's now not convinced that it, I love this line, Andy, that he's not convinced now that it developed naturally. It's kind of like a double negative.

We know what this means. So when he says it's not convinced it developed naturally, he doesn't finish the next sentence with would be that it developed intentionally. Intentionally, yeah. This is Dr. Fauci's double speak saying earlier this month that he is, quote, not convinced to develop naturally. Why don't you just say that my convincing, and now that I see things, is that it was developed in a laboratory in Wuhan, China in the Institute of Virology. Why don't you just say that?

Why do you have to say that you're not convinced to develop naturally through bats and water markets and so forth? This is a person whose credibility, I'm not convinced, is really there, Jay. I have real problems with Dr. Fauci's credibility and that he keeps changing his story.

And as we saw in the beginning, the difference between what the Washington Post said on February 17, 2020 when they bashed Senator Cotton and what they said today, you know, really changes and a year has changed in a lifetime. We need an investigation. Who is not the organization to do it? I don't trust the World Health Organization to get to the bottom of this thing at all, Jordan.

No, and I think unfortunately you have Jen Psaki. This is, you know, her whole response is it's all about the World Health Organization. I mean, this is what she has said. I mean, take a listen. When they're asked about, you know, who's going to get to the bottom of this? Well, they're still putting it into the World Health Organization, which during the Trump administration stopped funding because they were lackeys and still are for China. Take a listen, though. Why isn't President Biden pushing for more access, more information to get to the bottom of exactly what happened?

We are, and we have repeatedly called for the WHO to support an expert-driven evaluation of the pandemic's origins that is free from interference or politicization. So here's what it tells me. I mean, and I think this is what the bigger picture here. And maybe this is another FOIA request.

I'm thinking about that right now, too. Maybe we need to find out who knew what when. But let me say what's the real issue here is not simply the issue of, well, it looks like it was done intentionally in a lab and then we don't know whether it was intentionally leaked or not.

But we do now know that the first reported case of this were not December 8th, which is what the Chinese government was reporting, but rather was in late mid to late November when three scientists had to be hospitalized from the Wuhan laboratory. So you ask yourself, what is the ramification of this geopolitically, Harry? Well, there are many ramifications, but let's start at the top. First, experts are often wrong.

They are often dead wrong, particularly when they reach a consensus without doing basic scientific research and when they are insufficiently skeptical of so-called received wisdom. And all of that has occurred with respect to the coronavirus. By engaging in this misbehavior, by being insufficiently skeptical, it puts American lives at risk. This then leads or has led to a collusion between experts, the media and political donors, and that then affects the outcome of elections. And now many American lives have been made worse by the outcome that occurred in November 2020. Now the Biden administration has rejoined the World Health Organization.

This is exactly the wrong step. There is very little evidence that the World Health Organization advances the health of the lives of the people of the world, although it does a fantastic job of increasing the size of the pocketbook and the wallet of so-called experts. So one of the lessons that we should learn from all of this, I believe, including all of Dr. Fauci's many missteps, is that we should not rely inordinately on experts.

And so if you look at the rollout of Dr. Fauci's testimony, it has been a series of oscillating events up and down. Yes, you should wear a mask. No, you shouldn't wear a mask. No, this is not serious. Yes, it's very serious.

Perhaps you should wear three masks. So at the end of the day, I think the American people should learn to be skeptical of these so-called experts who are highly paid and who are funding, at least in some cases, the Wuhan Institute of Virology. You know, one person that gets no credit, zero credit for any of this, is the former President of the United States, Donald Trump, who for those of us who have been vaccinated, were able to get access to a vaccine in record time because of the leadership of Donald Trump's presidency. So all these critics that blame President Trump, who mocked him when he called it a Chinese virus, not a virus that originated in China, I don't think there's any, wait, German measles, same idea. We're not blaming the Chinese people. We may be blaming the Chinese government.

The Chinese government may have to be held accountable because there are geopolitical risks with this. But the one person that gets no credit where he should get credit was the vaccine. And that vaccine, which came out in record time, has caused the numbers of people that are getting serious illness to, I think, what is it, 50% of the country has been vaccinated already?

Yeah, it will. As of today, 50% of the country has been vaccinated. So, you know, he needs to get a credit for getting that done. But the left will not do that. No, there's no way that President Biden and the left-wing media is going to give President Trump credit for that, Jay.

That's not going to happen, as a matter of fact. President Trump put into operation Warp Speed. He put into play all these pharmaceutical companies and scientists working on a vaccine that came out in record time, Pfizer, Moderna, the Johnson vaccine. We all who I think are right thinking and who follow the science got the vaccine. I think it was the right thing to do.

I think it was the prudent thing to do. But no one in the Biden administration is ever going to admit that Donald Trump did anything along those lines to improve the lives of people and to save lives in the United States. It's just not going to happen. No, and listen, I mean, President Trump talked about it. He was open about this.

He got slammed. Take a listen, Bite17. We're looking at exactly where it came from, who it came from, how it happened separately, and also scientifically.

So we're going to be able to find out. And my question is, have you seen anything at this point that gives you a high degree of confidence that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the origin of this virus? Yes, I have. Yes, I have. So he said, yes, I have.

Yes, I have. He was slammed by the media, slammed by Fauci. And now Fauci is saying the same thing, that it likely that we need to do the research because it could have originated in the lab. So how much of this was playing politics with people's lives, playing politics with trying not to blame China? Because we know the left, they love China because they all make so much money from China, starting with the Biden family on down.

They're Chinese linkages. We know the whole situation with Nancy Pelosi and Senator Feinstein. Yes, and Eric Swalwell. I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

But this is the point. In an election year, during a pandemic, anyone who thought differently about what potentially could have happened was called a conspiracy theorist and spouting anti-Chinese rhetoric. Now, we're supposed to trust the Chinese and the World Health Organization?

Well, no longer, because now Dr. Fauci has weighed in. It didn't matter that the President of the United States, who had more intel access than Dr. Fauci will ever have in his entire life, weighed in on it and said it could be. We need to be able to investigate it and say 100 percent. But that's the point here, is that we've now shifted in a year from saying no way the Chinese created it to it's certainly possible they did. Well, and now look how crystal clear this is. I mean, you have a situation where they were mocking President Trump about saying that this was intentionally created.

Now, all of the evidence seems to be pointing to, as the media is now saying, as Dr. Fauci is now saying, that this was intentionally created, okay? Then you ask yourself your question, what does that mean geopolitically? And that's what we're going to address coming up with our Senior Counsel for Global Affairs, Mike Pompeo, former Secretary of State. He's speaking out aggressively on this as we have to. So it's not just that the Chinese government did this, it's what are the ramifications of that politically? When we come back from the break, Jordan, we're going to get into that in really great length. That's right. Secretary Pompeo will be joining us live. Get your calls in at 1-800-684-3110. If you're watching Facebook, Periscope, YouTube, share this with your friends and family before Secretary Pompeo joins us with his insight.

He was also slammed because he happened to say, hey, China could have created this back a year ago. Now everything's changing. We'll be right back. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.

But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today.

ACLJ.org. Welcome back to Cenk Hill. We are joined by our Senior Counsel for Global Affairs, former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who just tweeted yesterday, the Communist Party of China was actively engaged in viral research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Every piece of evidence points to a leak from this lab. Secretary Pompeo, we're now seeing what's reported now is it's no news to you, but Washington, the media, Dr. Fauci, everything is now – everybody's open now to what they were calling a conspiracy. They were attacking you about it even. They were attacking President Trump about it. They were attacking senators about it.

Anyone who talked about a lab leak theory, not even an intentional leak, but a lab leak, lab-created theory, but you've been pointing it to over a year now. Is the only thing that's changed is that Dr. Fauci has suddenly told the media, well, maybe he was wrong? You know, it's been a long year making the case, and it was important because it's not about vindication. It's about the world understanding what took place here. We still don't know all the details.

The Chinese Communist Party is continuing its flagrant cover-up, but all the facts that you've now seen come to light, we released a bunch of them back in January now, this intelligence report. I will tell you this. I assume Dr. Fauci had access to all this same information. Why? What changed his mind now?

I don't know. He can explain it. But the correct answer has to be that we need the data set that finds out where patient zero came from, what really happened, and every piece of evidence – I've been talking about this since spring of last year, over a year ago now. Every piece of evidence that we have seen in that year suggests that the Wuhan Institute of Virology is the place from which this virus leaked. We know they were doing virus studies on bad viruses. We know that they were doing something called gain-of-function research, essentially supercharging viruses. We know that the military was involved in work at that same laboratory.

We now know that there were workers at that laboratory who were hospitalized with symptoms consistent with the Wuhan virus. All of this data set leads me to the conclusion that this came from there, and if we're wrong, if that's not true, the Chinese Communist Party could disapprove it in a minute, and they've chosen not to do so. Yeah, I was going to follow up with that, Mike, and that was we know that China was aggressive and has been aggressive in their campaign to deny culpability, to hide evidence. They didn't cooperate with the World Health Organization, which they have always touted, but they didn't really cooperate with the World Health Organization. They really didn't cooperate with the rest of the globe. So what does it tell us about the Communist Party of China's complicity in this, since, as you just said, they could clarify this in a nanosecond?

Jay, it means that they're at the very least guilty of a virus that came out of Wuhan that has now killed more than 3 million people and destroyed billions of dollars' worth of wealth. That's the best case scenario for the Chinese Communist Party today. You know, your point about not providing information, I remember we were trying, the State Department was trying, HHS was trying, Dr. Redfield, we were all trying to get information in January of 2020 about what the Chinese knew and what was going on, and they gave us the shutout. No info, disappearing doctors, disappearing journalists. This is what authoritarian regimes do. This is why the work of the ACLJ is so important, right? We know how authoritarian regimes behave.

They deny basic freedoms, religious freedom, but also the freedom to talk about what you're doing, and they shut everybody down. It is tragic. I'm confident that had the world known earlier, we would have had fewer people lost this past year, and I am equally confident that the risk that something like this happens again, which is my greatest fear, like Jay, this lab's still open. The lab's still doing viral research. There's still so much we don't know.

We could have the next one take out 30 million people. You know, we've been talking about the geopolitical significance of all this. What does it mean as you move forward? It's not just we've now uncovered this or you've seen it in the intelligence report. It's now, what do you do? Our senior counsel, Andy O'Connell, has a question for you.

Andy? Yes, Secretary Pompeo, you tweeted that China must be held accountable. What exactly do you mean by accountable? What do we have to do to hold the Chinese Communist Party accountable, in your estimation?

So I'll give three easy answers, and then we can talk about other things one could do. Easy on, kick them out of the World Health Organization. They corrupted it. They politicized it. They were co-conspirators alongside of it. They shouldn't be part of an international body whose sole function is to prevent pandemics, right? WHO has one job when it comes to pandemics.

They failed. China shouldn't be part of it second. You know, there's an Olympics in 2020 called the Genocide Olympics because of what's happening in Western China. We should, the whole world should say, I'm not going to send my athletes, my press, my businesses to this place and reward a regime that is continuing to deny the world information about the pandemic that's the worst one in 100 years.

A third one. We know some of the leaders. We should put real pressure on them by sanctioning them for their role in the cover-up.

And then there's a half a dozen other things that would be straightforward that are within the control of leaders today. And we could impose real costs on the Chinese Communist Party. And when the costs are high enough, the Chinese Communist Party will have to come clean. I get concerned because Secretary Pompeo, on the one hand, the Biden administration, the White House, you know, is now saying, even HHS Secretary Becerra is saying, you've got to, the World Health Organization has got to now re-conduct a more transparent investigation. But they're still relying on the World Health Organization, which many believe, you know, widely because of the Chinese influence there and their lack of being able to get inside and get to the real information. The last time they tried to do this investigation, that why are we, why is, couldn't the U.S. put more pressure on China, couldn't the Biden administration put more pressure on China to get a more reliable investigative team, whether it was made up of Americans and people from other countries, but maybe outside the WHO, who even, I guess, the Biden administration is acknowledging now, they don't believe their first investigation should be accepted. I remember they were, the Biden administration and folks who became part of the Biden administration were turning to the WHO investigation as this was our solution. Because this was doomed to fail. There were people with conflicts of interest. And second, anytime you're doing this at the permission of the Chinese Communist Party, they're going to give you curated information that doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

It was a total failure. The WHO doesn't have the capacity to get the answers that are needed. It's going to take real state power to convince the Chinese Communist Party to cooperate. It's going to be really hard to do. I don't make light of that.

But what you can't do is pretend. You can't conduct pretend investigations and then have doctors, including folks like Dr. Fauci, who talked about that WHO investigation as something that might lead to important discoveries. We knew it was doomed to fail when it began. We shouldn't have relied upon it at any point in time. What is the consequence, Secretary Pompeo, if in fact this information comes out as it is?

It's starting to come out in droves now. And we find out that, number one, it was not created, it was not a wet market situation. It was actually intentionally created. We don't know if it was intentionally leaked out.

We do know that in November that there was scientists hospitalized with this. If the world does nothing here, we only have a minute, what happens? There's no way to look the other way. I think we're at that point now.

Maybe others will still want to see more. The world must respond. There must be accountability. There are ways to impose liability on the Chinese Communist Party. We saw this with Chernobyl. This was the same kind of thing where a terrible tragedy was covered up by the authoritarian government. This is the same kind of cover-up that imposed enormous costs on them. We don't have enough time to go into them.

But there are methodologies by which this could be done. And not just the United States, but the whole world must unite against us or we will suffer something like this once again. As always, our Senior Counsel for Global Affairs, former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, thank you for joining us and giving us your insight. Now, folks, we'll start taking more of your calls. Second half hour coming up, your calls, your comments at 1-800-684-3110. Now that you've heard the new information, now that you've heard from former Secretary of State and former CIA Director Mike Pompeo, a member of the ACLJ team, we want your thoughts on this major shift, major shift by Fauci and the media. Give us a call. 1-800-684-3110. We'll be right back.

Second half hour. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today.

ACLJ.org. I'm talking about freedom. I'm talking about freedom. We will fight for the right to live in freedom. Live from Washington, D.C., Sekulow Live. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow. Welcome back to Sekulow.

We are taking your phone calls to 1-800-684-3110. So let's reset the stage. In May of 2020, Anthony Fauci said, let's play it for everybody.

I want to reset the stage. This is May of 2020, so last year. This is what Dr. Fauci said about the origins of the COVID-19 virus. If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, it's very, very strongly leaning towards this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated, the way the mutations have naturally evolved. So he goes on, there's no way it had to be naturally involved, it wasn't manipulated, it wasn't lab-created.

This is May of this year, this month. Take a listen. So I wanted to ask, are you still confident that it developed naturally? No, I'm not convinced about that.

I think that we should continue to investigate what went on in China. So again, there, Dad, an absolute no, I'm not convinced. Well, he used the same phrase in the early one. He said, if you look at the evolution of the virus, and then he says again, and now he says, if you look at the evolution of the virus, except the conclusion is different. The conclusion now is, and what's out there, is a very, very strong leaning towards this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated. That's what he's saying. Everything about this stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that this evolved in nature and then jumped species.

In other words, back to human. Now he's saying, well, no, not exactly. Now he's saying, hmm, when asked if the virus originated naturally, this is what he says. I'm not convinced about that.

I think we should continue to investigate what went on in China until we continue to find out, to the best of our abilities, what happened. Andy? Yeah, so a year ago, he's saying that this thing developed naturally. It just happened.

It evolved in bats, and then it jumped into species, into human beings. He was convinced of that. He was sure of that. He was positive of that. That was a year ago. Suddenly, I want to know what happened in the year intervening to make him say, no, when asked the question, are you still confident that it developed naturally?

He says, and I quote, no, I'm not convinced about that. What happened in that intervening year to make the change, Dr. Fauci? Intelligence reports started leaking out. That's what happened. Information started getting out. And Harry's the director of policy. When information starts getting out, what do these people do?

Start trying to get current with the most recent information. I think that's true, but I think if we go back to the quote-unquote scientific basis for Dr. Fauci's assessment, nothing has really changed except he was exposed by the exposure, I should say, of the new evidence. And so now he is covering himself. But the reality, of course, is all of this is about assuring the American people that he is not incompetent. And I think the clear evidence suggests quite the contrary, that Dr. Fauci has passed his sell-by date, that he needs to move on, that he no longer knows what he's talking about. I don't care how distinguished he was in the past, he doesn't know what he's talking about, and I think the American people are poorer for it. Yeah, I mean, this is, again, we're going to take your calls when we come back.

1-800-684-3110, that's 1-800-684-3110. This idea, again, this is from the New York magazine, how the liberal media dismissed the lab leak theory and smeared its supporters. And of course, because Dr. Fauci is open to this theory, there's been a complete change in the media. The Washington Post said how the Wuhan lab today, how the Wuhan lab leak theory is suddenly credible. It's suddenly credible just because the person that said maybe it happened is someone they liked and it isn't Donald Trump, and someone from the Trump administration like former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. Even though nothing has changed, same intel, it's because of the voice behind it. And now even our HHS Secretary is saying there needs to be a new investigation into China, but they're not willing to investigate on their own. They're relying on failed WHO, which is in the pocket, is owned by the Chinese.

We'll be right back on Sekulow 1-800-684-3110 to talk to us. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms. That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side.

If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org.

Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. All right, welcome back to Sekulow. We're going to get to your phone calls now. 1-800-684-3110. That's 1-800-684-3110. Let's go to Bill in Wyoming on Line 3. Hey, Bill, welcome to Sekulow. You're on the air.

Yeah, thanks for taking my call. First, I'd like to say I never really believed a word that these people had said about this virus business, which leads me to my question. Could this administration be making an attempt to co-opt everything that President Trump did and take credit for it? Well, I think, listen, this administration is willing to let others spout the same kind of theories, and if it's someone that they accept inside their administration like a Fauci, well, suddenly they can all then shift. So they're using him to do, I think, Bill, what you're exactly right, co-opting what Trump said, but not via Trump, via Fauci, who was initially spouting off anti-Trump.

He was saying Trump's wrong. There's no way it was created in a lab. Now he's saying it could be created in a lab. And now the Biden administration and the HHS secretary for Biden is saying there's got to be a new investigation into whether Wuhan lab created this. And I want to focus on, and we did this with Secretary Pompeo, but I think we need to focus on what does this mean? What are the realistic outcomes of a situation like this? First, I'm going to turn to Harry on the economic side of this, because there's an economic component to this.

China is a big trading partner with much of the world, including the United States. If it was determined that this, in fact, had happened intentionally, now we know now that looks like it was created intentionally, but whether it was released intentionally, we don't have that data yet. That evidence is not there yet. But if it was, what is the ramifications, or if it was done by negligence, I mean, as well, what are the economic ramifications for this?

Well, I think they could be enormous, and indeed they should be enormous. I think first, though, we should establish that the Biden administration has perfected a particular approach to international events called leading from behind. And I don't necessarily see them taking immediate action, but I think we should. We should take action against China. We should take action against Chinese products. We should take action because China continues to subordinate and perhaps engage in genocidal misbehavior with respect to the urges within its own borders, and yet we now have a plethora of American companies who are profiting from massive sales from products that are produced in China, some of which may indeed have been produced via slave labor. And so if we take our responsibility as a nation seriously, if we believe in human rights, for instance, then we should engage in action, and that action requires, I think, the imposition of sanctions on China.

Then I've got a political question for Jordan and a legal question for Andy. Politically, what do the Democrats do here? Well, I think they're trying to shift to, well, if Fauci says we need to investigate it, we're going to investigate it, but they're going to do it through the WHO, so they're now open to the idea that China did create. This is important. Step one was getting past this idea that somehow this theory was just a conspiracy theory.

We're now past that. Okay, so step two is determining if China actually created this in a lab. And then this third step, which will be the most consequential, is that if they did, and if those who were right that it appears that this lab created and that there's evidence there. The third is even the most important, politically and geopolitically, and that is, was it intentionally leaked?

Or should this lab be shut down because it leaked unintentionally? They knew about these sick doctors in November, and that would have been 2019, and didn't tell anybody. Shut down travel from Wuhan, they did that, but we continued to allow travel from China to the US until President Trump shut it down and people like Biden called that xenophobic at first.

And so did Nancy Pelosi. And that third step, I mean, could have serious consequences on China. We now at least, as a country, are in agreement that it's possible China did this intentionally.

So here's the next question I have, or the next thought. There's legal consequences to this. There's the World Trade Organization, there are training global, we have training agreements with China. There's legal ramifications to this.

China has a lot of US debt. I'm thinking outside the box here and thinking, you know, there should be, as we would say in the law, liquidated damage provision here. If in fact, listen, we know at a minimum it will be negligence, whether it was weaponizing it intentionally, we don't have that evidence yet, but negligence, yeah, it leaked.

There should be a legal consequence to that, Andy. Yeah, I agree with you, Jay, and I like the idea of what you said in liquidated damages. Look, there's plenty of Chinese assets in the United States, right? We have assets in the United States and there were Iranian assets in the United States. There were assets of other countries which we froze and which we said are not going anywhere as recompense to the United States and to victims of the Wuhan virus.

And that is exactly one good alternative to do. The Biden administration doesn't have the guts to do that because they're so invested with the Chinese right now and they're so much a part of China because Washington DC and Biden is just a caucus for the Chinese, in my opinion, just like the squad is a caucus for Hamas, you might say, but they won't do that. But what they should do is say, look, you put to death a half a million people in the world, including many, many hundreds of thousands in the United States, whether you did it negligently, whether you did it intentionally, you did it. It happened. It came from your lab. It didn't come from bats.

It didn't come from water animals. It came from your tinkering around in the Wuhan Institute of Virology and you need to pay for it. And the way we're going to do it is through economic sanctions. And I think that's a good approach to to confronting the problem.

And California's calling in about just that on line one. Hey, Julie, welcome to secular. You're on the air. Hi. Yes, I've heard a lot now from all of you on how we can hold China accountable.

And I have one remark. I don't negligence in Wuhan. I think they were definitely they because they were not just negligent. They deliberately unleashed on the world because they left the Wuhan people travel everywhere in the world, but they would not let them travel in China.

So I think Chinese were deliberately using this as biological warfare. And we do need to stop funding them in every way possible. And I like your idea of holding them legally financially responsible.

I think, listen, we've got to get to that. You have to have hard evidence. You have to have hard evidence that what it was created in the lab and the next is more of an Intel investigation and a CIA type investigation, which is did they do it on purpose or was it leaked because you or was it did it leak unintentionally? Even if it's unintentional leak, they should face significant consequences. The lab should be shut down. China should face economic consequences because of how many people have died because this unintentional if it was unintentional, which I don't believe anything the Chinese do was unintentional. I never have, and I don't believe that they are weak enough in their science programs to unintentionally leak this.

So now that Fauci thinks it was created in the lab, it's more likely to me that they did this intentionally. They unleashed it intentionally to the world. You have to remember the Chinese thought process, the party, the state is the most important. So this idea, well, oh, but it hurts their own people.

They don't care. The people, individual is not important in China. But Harry, this kind of ties into another question we got, which is can we actually isolate China economically?

Are they too big to fail now? Well, that's a great question. I think the first question is whether or not we have leadership in place in Washington that has the will to confront hostile countries. And I think there's an open question on that particular issue.

With respect to what the caller suggested, if you look at legal concepts, generally we scale things up. We talk first about negligence, then gross negligence, recklessness, gross recklessness, and then evidence of intentionality, premeditation and the like. And I think the first thing we should do is to launch a serious investigation. Right now the Biden administration is not committed to a serious investigation.

Why do I say that? They wish to rely on the WHO. They continue to rely on Dr. Fauci. Those two individuals and organizations are clearly and unmistakably unreliable. And so I think we need a serious investigation. There is some scattered evidence coming from U.S. intelligence sources, which suggests that A, the virus did escape from the lab, and B, there may indeed be deliberate misconduct by China. As yet, that is not confirmed, but first we need a real investigation, then we should ramp up China's liability. We have a final segment coming up.

We have time to take more of your phone calls too if you get them in now. 1-800-684-3110 to talk to us live on the air. Do you believe China intentionally unleashed this on the world? We've now gotten to step two where those who pooh-poohed the idea that this could have been intentionally created by the Wuhan lab are now open to the idea that it was intentionally created.

So was it intentionally released on the world? That's the next question then. 1-800-684-3110. Share your thoughts with us at 1-800-684-3110.

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ACLJ.org. Welcome back to SEC. We're about to get to your phone calls, but I want to play this for you. Again, you got Peter Ducey asking Jen Psaki, the White House press room, yesterday about this idea. Remember, we already said that they want the WHO to reinvestigate.

Any questions? Do you really want the WHO to do that? Why are we waiting for them?

Take a listen by 14. But with 589,920 dead Americans, at what point does President Biden say, we don't want to wait for the WHO? We don't know what they're doing. This needs to be an American-led effort to get to the bottom of what happened. Well, first of all, we need access to the underlying data and information in order to have that investigation.

Why not? But he talks all the time about how he's known President Xi for a long time. So why can't he just call and ask him for that information? I think you're misunderstanding how this process actually works. An international investigation led by the World Health Organization is something that we've actually been pressing for for several months in coordination with a range of partners around the world. We need that data. We need that information from the Chinese government. What we can't do, and what I would caution anyone doing, is leaping ahead of an actual international process. We don't have enough data and information to jump to a conclusion at this point in time.

We will never get that information or data. Okay, let me explain a couple things here. Why would you put the WHO, World Health Organization, in charge of this investigation?

Why would you even do that, number one? Number two, the arrogance of Jen Psaki. I think you misunderstand how this process actually works. An international investigation led by the WHO is something that we've actually been pressing for several months.

It hasn't happened. We've been pressing it, but it hasn't happened, number two. Number three, we want a range of partners around the world. We need the data.

We need the information from the Chinese government. How about this? How about the President picks up the phone and says, you know what?

Now we're finding out that this thing looks like it was intentionally made in your labs. We need to know everything, because you know who we are? We're the United States of America, your largest trading partner. And yeah, you've got a lot of U.S. debt, but there's a lot of damages here. I go back to what Andy and I talked about earlier. There's always the idea, too, we can wipe that debt clean.

Say you're a bad actor? Sorry. What would that do to their economy? They're not going to go to war with us. They can't go to actual war with us. Again, there are ways to handle this, but Jen Psaki was pressed again.

Take a listen. So is there any amount of casualties from COVID in this country that would make you want to not wait for an international effort and just do it as well? I have to say, I think the family members of the loved ones whose lives have been lost and deserve accurate information, data, not the jumping to a conclusion without having the information necessary to conclude what the origins are. What we do share, everyone in this country, is a desire to know how this started, where it started, and prevent it from ever happening again. That's something we all share. So let's go to the phones.

1-800-684-3110. You see, they are not willing to have the U.S.A. They don't want Joe Biden to own it, because again, he brags about his relationship. He wouldn't be able to get this from President Xi.

That's the truth. Because right now, China's playing the strongman game, and Joe Biden, it looks like the weak President. Let's go to the phones. We'll go to the order that calls have come in. Britain, Virginia, on Line 1 first.

Taper it. Hi, gentlemen. I just wanted to say, when you talk about financial damages, wouldn't the judgment against China for this whole virus outbreak make the Treaty of Versailles look like the $10 check you get from your grandma on your birthday?

Andy? Well, the Treaty of Versailles, yes. If you mean the Treaty of Versailles that ended the First World War, that was a pretty bad deal for some people, it would be said. But what we're trying to say here is that we can hold the Chinese financially accountable. Like we said, we can wipe out their debt. What are they going to do? Take us to bankruptcy court? We can freeze their assets against future damages to families that have been incurred as a result of this. That's a good idea.

But the political will and the guts to do that are not in Joe Biden. That is the issue. So let's continue to go to the phones. 1-800-6431-TID. We'll go to Brian next to you on Line 6. Hey, Brian. Hey, guys. Thank you for taking my call.

I'll be as quick as possible. I got two parts to this. One, does anybody else think the timing of the virus during Trump's presidency was a coincidence like I do? And two, how do you hold anybody accountable from this happening again when Biden and his administration and the people behind him are not willing to go forward and hold anybody accountable?

What's the stop? So let me tell you, on the coincidence thing, I'm a lawyer, so I deal with evidence. I want to see evidence. I would want to see the evidence of the intentional leaking of the virus or the negligent leaking of the virus or the weaponizing of the virus. Do I think this is an accident?

My gut as a trial lawyer tells me no. There's no accidents with the Chinese Communist Party. None.

So that's kind of number one. How do we prevent it from happening again? Well, Harry, there has to be real accountability and sanctions. Yes, and there has to be real urgency on the part of the Biden administration. So far, there is no sense of urgency. They claim to care about the victims of the coronavirus, but they are not doing anything about it. Instead, the Biden administration continues to fall over itself in being submissive to President Xi in China. Let's go back and take the final call of the day. Frank in New Jersey online.

Hey, Frank. Yeah, I was just wondering, if this thing was intentionally designed, would that launch an investigation, possibly into a politically motivated situation between the Biden administration and the Chinese government? Well, I think, listen, it does raise the question again, because so many of this administration, from Blinken, the Secretary of State, to the Biden family, have benefited so much financially from China. I mean, his institute at Penn is funded by China. Blinken ran the institute funded by China. His family has made tens of millions, if not hundreds, off of business dealings with Chinese government-owned companies, because every one of those companies has government ownership.

So I think, again, political motivation, 100%. The Chinese could not stand Donald Trump. He scared them. He threatened them.

And the idea that he was not someone they could just play, he wasn't afraid of them. And so a virus gets unleashed on the world that emanates, we know, out of China. Now the liberals and the Fauci's, the Biden White House, our HHS secretary, are all open to the idea they claimed was a conspiracy theory a year ago that the Chinese created it. And now they're open to that huge shift. If we figure that out, we can then figure out the next step, which is why did it get out to the public in the world? Well, that's, you know, the great question of this is we're moving to this. It's coming in steps.

So that's really what this is. It's a stepped approach. And in law, you always follow the evidence. And you've got to see where the evidence actually leads here. But one thing is becoming clear. Something happened, and it wasn't a bat by itself in the wet market.

No, it was not. And I agree with you, Jay. When we deal with evidence, we're lawyers. We deal with hard facts. We don't deal with surmises. We don't deal with speculation.

We don't deal with anything. But I got to tell you this. The Chinese Communist Party doesn't do anything by mistake, by accident. They do it with intent to do, and they're very careful and they're very cautious. All right, folks, we're going to continue to get into this, continue to track this, of course, very closely. This is a huge shift. We cannot underscore that enough. And while there's political consequences to it as well, it's a huge shift that now the whole country is under the idea that, yeah, the Chinese could have created this. And Dr. Fauci said, no, I don't think that it's just the idea that was somehow animal origins and not created a lab is 100 percent.

But he's totally shifted. And that puts it all on China. Spotlight China. How responsible are they for this pandemic hitting the world and all the deaths that came from it? For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life changing work. Become a member today. ACLJ.org.