UK joins US in Condemning China of Genocide

This is Jay Sekulow breaking news. The United Kingdom joins the United States in declaring that China is committing actual genocide. Hey everybody, we've got some breaking news, and that is the United Kingdom has joined the United States in declaring China is actually committing genocide right now against the Uyghurs. This is a minority Muslim community in China. The United States has already condemned the Chinese government for doing this. There's been ongoing persecution of the Uyghurs and other religious minorities, including Christian communities in China.

Of course, we've got a case right now involving Pastor John Saul, who is in a prison in China going on year four. So this is all happening simultaneously, and now we have this breaking development that we have raised. And I think this is important to point out. We have raised this issue in what are called periodic reviews before the United Nations. These are reports that we file.

In fact, I'll have a copy of it in the next segment or later in the broadcast. These are documents that we file with the United Nations, and we pointed out the genocide issue of what was going on with the Uyghur community. Now let me tell you something else. Genocide is defined under international law, and it's basically the systematic extermination, elimination, murder of an ethnic group, a regional religious group. Even a political group. So here you have the Chinese government saying that the Uyghurs are enemies of the state.

Which, by the way, when they persecute pastors or Christian churches in China, they do the exact same thing. So in one sense, this is not new, except now you've got the world. And I say that because getting Europe involved in this is very, very important. The United States has led the charger. Look, we've done a lot of work in Europe.

I'll go to Andy Conamo on this. We've done serious scholarly work in previous years at the University of Oxford. We have a study center that engages on these issues. This is a serious issue, and when you're talking about genocide, you're talking about violations of international law.

You're right, Jay. We have worked at Oxford University, you and I and other colleagues of ours, on the very issues that are being raised today in parliament in the condemnation of this genocide of the Uyghur population in China. And it is very important that the United Kingdom and the mother of all parliaments has today joined so many other nations, including the United States, in actually calling out what this is.

Yet genocide, and I'll just give a little instruction, genocide is, of course, a Greek-rooted word, yenos kidere, so it means yenos, which is a nation of peoples, and to cut them down, the Latin suffix that was added on later on. So it is the cutting down and the elimination of a yenos, which is a nation of peoples, and the United Kingdom has taken now the lead in Europe, joining the United States in condemning this horrific action on the part of the Chinese and Xinjiang province, taken against the Uyghur Muslims. Very important step, very important voice to add to the panoply of voices that are condemning this action. It includes documented cases of arbitrary detentions, forced sterilization of women, forced labor, and systematic violations of basic freedoms.

There's also been situations where there's been, they call them reeducation camps. But this is, look, this is necessary. And the fact that the United Kingdom has now entered this is a big deal. I think, Logan, very quickly here, it gives a more of a global perspective to this problem, which is very, very important. Yeah, and a global perspective to the work that we do also. We're always talking to you guys, assuming the audience is in America. We actually have audiences across the world on our social media pages.

You look at our numbers everywhere people are watching. We always get calls from people all across the planet. So if you're listening right now in the UK, you may want to reach out, just throw in a comment. If you can call, call 1-800-684-3110.

But again, phone lines are open. As you said, we're going to talk to Rick Grenell in the third segment about this. And also coming up in the next segment, we're going to be addressing the California Singing Band and the Singing Band of Churches. There's a lot more updates on that in terms of how we're getting involved on that.

Obviously, it was due to some COVID restrictions. We'll deal with that in the next segment. Again, give us a call, 1-800-684-3110 or ECLJ.org. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. But whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support.

Take part in our Matching Challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

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Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to the broadcast. We're going to have Rick Grenell, our senior advisor on international affairs, is going to be joining us in the next segment of the broadcast. We're going to get more into the situation with the Uyghurs and the Christian minority populations in China, but the fact that the U.K. has now joined the U.S. is a big statement. And again, I'm holding in my hand a copy of the report that your European Center for Law and Justice, part of the ACLJ, filed with the United Nations, and we go into it in the report. We discuss the situation with the Uyghurs.

And I want to go to Than Bennett, our director of governmental affairs, who is also one of our representatives at the United Nations. Than, these are important because this issue is something that the ACLJ and our ECLJ has been involved with now for years. This one was filed in 2018.

Yeah, really critical, Jay. 2018 is significant in this case because this was the early stages of the genocide we see against the Uyghur people. And we were at the United Nations laying down one of the first reports they received on it and clearly calling on the world to look at them. Jay, as this debate played out, there were some that said, this is not genocide because it's not extermination of a people group. We very clearly said, well, then what is forced sterilization if it's not extermination of a people group? And Jay, one other thing I would say, this led to the United States designating genocide. This again shows the importance of U.S. leadership around the world with strength. That's really what led to the U.K. designation today.

Dating all the way back to our work in 2018, it's why we do these reports, Jay. All right, I want to change gears for a little bit here because the American Center for Law and Justice has joined in. We filed a lawsuit in California representing Calvary Chapel and a number of churches against a singing and chanting band that California's had in place since the outbreak of COVID. Now, this is a significant restriction on the right to worship.

I mean, incredible. Now, there's been two Supreme Court cases which are very, very helpful in this case, yet California still refuses to allow churches, liturgical churches, non-denominational churches, to engage in singing, chanting. And I'm thinking about it, Andy, from your faith perspective, from the Greek Orthodox community, chant, I mean, to a lot of services. The liturgy is chanted. It's like in a Jewish service. A lot of the liturgy is chanted. And the idea that California is now saying no to chanting, you could have a facility that holds a thousand people and they're only allowing still, what is it, 50 people there, 100 people there, and you still cannot chant any of the, which are part of the worship service in the Orthodox community, both Jewish and Christian Orthodox communities.

That's exactly right, Jay. As we know, the first Christians were Jews, so we take our tradition from the Jewish tradition of the high priest chanting the services to God and the sacrifices to God at the Temple Mount. These were adopted by the Christians.

They knew no other ways, so they adopted the ways of their Jewish heritage. And we chant the liturgies, we chant, we are now in the Orthodox Church. Today is the last day of Great Lent, because according to the calendar in the Eastern Orthodox Church, Easter is not until May 2nd, so we are today concluding Lent. And all the Sundays, Fridays of Lent, we have chanting services to the Mother of God, the Theotokos, the Liturgy of Saint Basil the Great, which is performed on the Sundays of Lent, is chanted and intoned by the priest. The salutations to the Virgin Mary are chanted and drummed by the priest. The chanter sings the various kontakia and hymns, the odes and all the melodies that are sung are all intoned and chanted. That means, open your mouth, I shall open my mouth and it will be filled with the Holy Spirit.

The words in Greek say, let my mouth be opened and be filled with the Spirit. So these kinds of attacks that California has put on chanting and intoning cut at the very basis and nature, not only of our church, but of the biblical scripture that informs us that that is how you worship God, in hymns and praises and song. We are likely looking at, this is important to point out folks, we are likely going to be the first case that actually goes into discovery. So we're going to find out what California was even thinking. Look, initially everybody clamped down and we got it, nobody understood the nature and scope of COVID. Then there was facilities available, they reduced the number of people that could be in attendance. But they still said, I made the example early on, a year ago, that if you had a sanctuary that held 5,000 people, they were saying it was 5,000, then 25% of the capacity, which was, so 25% of 5,000 roughly, you know, a thousand or so, and 1,250, or 50 people, whichever is less.

I mean it made no sense. Now, if with those 50 people there, you still could not sing, offer praise, chant a liturgy, without running afoul of California's authorities. Now, two cases have come out of the Supreme Court of the United States, both backing church's religious freedom rights. Yet in California, although I think they're going to change this and there's words that it may change soon, the fact of the matter is, and Andy I think this is important for people to understand, California has been intransigent. They have dug their heels in on this. This is like the hill they've decided they're going to die on.

This is the one that they're going to fight. With everything going on, their top concern is, can we make sure the churches aren't singing? Yeah, this is something that they have decided to build a mountain on and to put their last bastion of support. We are not going to allow singing and chanting in churches.

Well, let me tell you something else. The ACLJ is going to see that the opposite happens and that the proverbs and the scriptures of the Bible that direct us to sing praises to God are going to be enforced and permitted in our churches and that we are going to be able to open our mouth and sing as the scriptures tell us to do with a new voice to God. And this is something that we have determined just as intransigent as California is going to be, we are going to be just as intransigent in opposing it and to seeing that the scriptures and the Holy Gospel is championed. We have also obtained already in this case evidence that, and this was during the preliminary injunction stage, that shows that there's no justification for this. They have to justify this by, on the constitutional standard as has to be the least restrictive, whenever you're impacting free speech, and religious worship is deemed speech under the First Amendment. Supreme Court has said religious speech and worship are protected as free speech under the Constitution. Winmar v. Vincent, Mergens v. Board of Education, Jews for Jesus v. Board of Airport Commissioners, Lamb's Chapel.

I mean, three of the four of those cases we argued at the Supreme Court, so we know this area well. And this idea that you can, you know, kind of just put all these restrictions in place and not care about the free speech implications was wrong. There was even technology out, the mask that could be used, that would stop the, you know, the viral spread of any of this, and yet California still doesn't move. Now, they have to establish that this is the least restrictive means, and how are they going to establish, Andy, a least restrictive means, when you could literally have a worship center in California, a thousand people that could hold a thousand. They only allow 25% of that thousand, 250 people, or 50, whichever is less.

How in the world are they going to adopt the, first of all, that's absurd, but how are they going to even put the singing band in that context as the least restrictive means? Well, they're not going to. That's not going to happen.

It's incapable of happening. You can't possibly justify that is the least restrictive means. In fact, in my view, it's the most restrictive means and the opposite of what the cases that you argued before the Supreme Court have held. Look, we have religious liberties here, and one of those religious liberties is the right to praise the Lord.

To praise the Lord in psalms and hymns and chants and intoning, and to do this with the joy and the fulfillment of the Holy Spirit, and these are the kinds of things that are not going to be restricted, and the least restrictive means are not being used by California. In fact, the most restrictive means is being employed, Jay. You know, the interesting thing here is that the American Center for Law and Justice, and we're in the last week of our matching challenge campaign for April, we're unique in that, and Logan knows this, we don't just, you know, file lawsuits. We don't just do media. We don't just do policy. We don't just do government affairs. We do all of it because of your support of the ACLJ.

That's right. You obviously get the daily show that you'll see on Facebook, on YouTube, on ACLJ.org, and all over on television. You see this, and you may think this is a media organization you hear we talk about.

You don't understand the hard work that we do here at the ACLJ when it's in terms of lawyers and legal staff and filing complaints and creating all of this. It's not just about, obviously, the amazing crew that's here in the media headquarters to make sure we get the word to you, but the work beyond just doing the media side of it is very, very vast, and you can find out so much more about that by just simply going to the website. Take a look at all the content we release every day.

It's much more than just this one hour. Obviously, follow us on all social media and all of those outlets. You'll find that content there. But really, at ACLJ.org, you can read extensive work that we're doing. If you want to know more about it, again, that's the best place to go where not only you can donate, but also you can just dive really deep into what's happening in the world and how you can make an impact, not just us. We can't do it without you because it is donor supported. So at ACLJ.org, you can go there, you can donate right now, and we're starting to head to the end of a matching challenge. We can use your support. All you've got to do is click the donate now, and effectively, when you give, let's say $10, someone on the other end, a great donor, says, hey, I want to give $10 to match them.

And that goes up high, as high as you can go. We appreciate that, again, at ACLJ.org. We'll be taking phone calls when we get back as well, 1-800-684-3110. We'll be joined by Rick Grenell also to talk about the topic going on in China.

We'll be right back. I want to show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, a play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support. Take part in our Matching Challenge today. Make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org.

Hey, welcome back to the broadcast, everyone. If you're just joining us, the British House of Commons has joined in the United States and has approved a parliamentary motion declaring that crimes against humanity and genocide are being committed against the Uyghurs and other mostly Muslim ethnic minorities in China's northwest Xinjiang province. Now, this has been an ongoing issue. In 2018, our European Center for Law and Justice went to the United Nations over this issue. Joining us right now is our senior advisor to the ACLJ on international affairs, former acting director of national intelligence and ambassador to Germany, Rick Grenell. Rick, this is an issue that's been close to your heart, religious freedom close to our whole organization here. But there's an important aspect of this, not just that the Europeans or that the UK has joined this, but you're thinking that maybe the European continent is awaking to this religious discrimination, this atrocities going on. Look, first of all, Jay, we should start this segment by thanking all of the supporters of ACLJ over the last couple of years who have made the Uyghurs a religious freedom issue. Their participation with us in highlighting this issue at the United Nations, where, let's face it, the Europeans really care about what happens at the UN. Our work at the UN has been exemplary. It's been great, and we couldn't do it without the support of everyone who's listening. And so you must continue to support us now more than ever when it comes to religious freedom.

And nobody's asked me to say this. I just believe this in my heart, that it is a crucial time. What we're seeing with the UK is a movement towards drawing the line with the Chinese. Look, I spent years trying to convince European leaders to draw a line on Huawei, on the Chinese version of 5G and how they would come through the back door with data graphs.

They would take our information, and it was not secure. And our US intelligence agency spent a long time, and our diplomats spent a long time trying to convince the Europeans to draw a line against the Chinese. I think the work on highlighting the problem with the Uyghurs, the genocide, and the lack of religious freedom in China is working. The UK parliament is noticing, and I think this could be a real pull for the rest of Europe.

Now is the time to double down. You spent a lot of time at the United Nations. You were principal spokesman for the United States at the United Nations. So I had our team look back because the situation with the Uyghurs, as I said, is not new. We started highlighting it in the mid-2015, 2016, but then went to the UN with it on 2018 and actually followed it up with a formal report. I think it's important for our members to understand, our listeners to understand how important it is because the UN has this kind of negative reputation in the United States, and they certainly have been very difficult to deal with when it comes to Israel.

But because it's difficult doesn't mean you don't engage it. Correct. And Jay, I would even suggest that we should go, and I would go, let's do another UN event. Let's do something on the margins of the UN and highlight this issue right now, all about religious freedom because it makes a difference at the UN. As I said, the Europeans really care what happens in New York at the United Nations.

They care what the world is thinking. And when we can move Europeans and others in New York to think about the religious implications and draw the line against the Chinese, to call out the Chinese rather than call out America at the UN, that's what we should be doing. When the Chinese came and had their meeting with the Biden administration in Alaska, and on our soil, on American soil, they were lecturing us about human rights abuses, it was a sad day for America to not stand up and say, this is ridiculous.

There is no moral equivalency. And so we need to draw this line very clearly and be as loud as we can that the Uyghur situation, that what the Chinese are doing is genocide. Let me go to Thanh Bennett. Our Director of Governmental Affairs is also our UN representative. I think this would dovetail with what Rick just said. And Thanh, that is, you've walked those halls, I've walked those halls of the UN.

We've had a very significant, we continue to, I mean, it's obviously difficult with COVID, but we've had a significant presence at the United Nations. For a long time, Jay, and look, you've got to play the long game on this. Rick's exactly correct about why we engaged so early on this. I mean, in this report that you referenced, Jay, we mentioned that more than a hundred Christians with Muslim backgrounds have been moved to reeducation centers. Well, those numbers are astronomically larger now, but the reason we engaged at such an early stage is so that we would be ready, that we would be able to point back to these reports, as Rick has said, now in this moment where the rest of the world is looking at it and said, and be able to say, look, we have been telling you this was coming, it is now upon us, now we have to speak with one voice. I would add one thing, though, to what Rick said. There were a lot of people, as the Trump administration was winding down, that really thought this designation of genocide was a throwaway. Jay, it was the opposite of a throwaway because it led to this moment today where the United Kingdom is following suit. So, Rick, what do you think is the next logical move here?

Logan in a minute is going to talk. We've got a project called Be Heard, which is a project we launched years ago, that highlights some of these. But what do you think is the next, now that the UK has made this declaration, what do you think happens next here? Got to go to Brussels. You've got to get the Europeans in Brussels to make it a very clear statement and ask the EU and the European Parliament to be very clear about what's happening. We have a project called Be Heard, which is a project we launched for the persecuted church, but it highlights all of these issues.

We've had this, yeah, for the better part of a decade, if not over a decade at this point. BeHeardProject.com you can go to. It's a special project of the ACLJ. And you'll find out all of what we've done around the world to help persecuted, persecuted of all faiths, not just Christians.

I mean, majority I'd say are persecuted Christians, that of all faiths. And you can find that again on our website on BeHeardProject.com. It's continually updated. There was new articles that were posted just this last week, but you can also go back and see the successes that we've had in these situations and also the ongoing situation. Some of these last years, these are never easy fixes. These are never things that take days to get resolved. These are years of continual advocacy for people. Rick, that's another thing I want to underscore here last thing, and that is that you got to work these situations, you got to work these cases and realize they're not going to be, as Logan just said, they're not resolved in a day.

I mean, these, some take months, some take years. I mean, I am so proud that ACLJ does this hard work at the United Nations. I can tell you after being there eight years, it can be a lonely place to go to these meetings, go to the basement of the UN, and that's where it is, to talk about human rights issues and to be pushed aside, to be silenced. You can go to 20 meetings and maybe only get to speak three times, but if you don't show up, if you're not there demanding a seat at the table, then you don't get these moments to produce these reports. And these are the types of hard work.

It's not sexy, it's hard work. If we are not there doing it, nobody else will, and I'm proud to be a part of this organization that is highlighting genocide in China and making countries in Europe like the UK stand up and say, yep, you know what, the evidence is there. You know, Rick, I say this often on a lot of issues, and especially on global issues, and in some time I call it the, you know, all these European governments have, we have cabinet, you were a cabinet member, they have ministries of this, ministries of that. I call it the ministry of presence.

You have to show up. And sometimes, like you say, you could be there for weeks and not say a word, and you finally get your two minutes, and we've seen that two minutes turn an entire situation around. So, Rick Rinnell, thanks for being part of the team. Thanks for your comments, as always. And again, folks, your support of the ACLJ is the reason we were able to have people like Rick Rinnell, Mike Pompeo, and others, and this whole production staff and our team in Washington.

We've got another 30 minutes ahead. Thanks, Rick, for being with us. Support the work of the ACLJ.

As Rick said, now more than ever. Whether it's a singing band in California that's impacting churches, or whether it's fighting for religious minorities in China, we're there, because of your support of the ACLJ. Go to ACLJ.org, participate in our matching challenge campaign.

We'll be back with the second half hour in just a moment. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. With limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Get a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Live from Washington, D.C., Sekulow Live.

And now, Chief Counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, Jay Sekulow. We've got an awful lot to talk about. We've been there, the first half hour of the broadcast was jam-packed. We talked about the minority persecution of the Uyghur community in China, and that the United Kingdom, and this is a big development, the United Kingdom has now labeled China as a country committing genocide. The United States already has. Andy, quick, well, let me go through the list here, and then we're going to go through a couple other points. So we've got that issue. We were on top of this issue, I mean, back in 2018. We went to the United Nations on behalf of religious minorities, including Christians that are being persecuted in China. So we've done a lot of work in China, and we've done a lot of work in dealing with these issues. I've been to Beijing. I actually lectured at the University of Peking, a major lecture on religious freedom.

Lawyers from all over China, the Attorney General's Office of China. I mean, it was an incredible experience. And again, the acts of genocide are now being pointed out. And genocide, Andy, has a long history in international law.

Well, it does, Jay. Genocide is the purposeful and intentional elimination of an entire ethnos or population or gender genus of people. It is an attempt to extirpate and remove a nation from the earth by killing them in various ways, whether it be by forced sterilization, which is analogous to just murder of these people, putting them in concentration camps, whipping them, beating them, slaying them, doing all sorts of things. This is not anything new in the history of humankind, unfortunately. The UK Parliament spoke out very vocally the other day in condemning the genocide of the Uyghur Muslim population in northwest Xinjiang province in China. This is exactly what the United States has done. We have now taken on that mantle of having the UK join us in this thing.

And it is a vital thing that we do at the ACLJ. Through our European arm, for example, as you pointed out, the European Center for Law and Justice, we called this out of what was going on in China in 2018. So we have been on it now for many years and we are cognizant of the fact that this is happening and it's got to be stopped and the Europeans, as Ambassador Grenell said, have to be made to realize that the United States is in the forefront along with Britain and the ACLJ in condemning these acts.

Then the idea that the Chinese would come to Anchorage, Alaska and presume to lecture us on racism and that our Ambassador current to the United Nations would go around calling the United States a racist country in the world makes me physically ill. You know, you look at what's going on globally and I will tell you that the European Center for Law and Justice, I'm holding up my hand, this is 2018 folks, when we filed this first periodic review and China is in it and so are the Uyghurs and so are the Christian communities that are being persecuted. Now, at the same time, the labor part, it was a joint, the Conservatives and the Labour, so this crossed political lines in the UK. Here's one of the Labour leaders, this is Ruth Cadbury, this is what she had to say. If the UK is going to be a serious player in the world, then our government needs to show leadership and demonstrate our British values and no longer see the issue merely through the prism of protecting the UK's trade. Mr Deputy Speaker, I will not stand aside.

Members here today will not stand aside. Our government must no longer stand aside in the face of these appalling crimes. There was a lot to unpack there but one of the things she said was that we can't hide under the protecting the UK's trade but Logan, you made that point. Listen, China, everything we've got in this studio, a lot of it. Oh yeah, you can't just go ahead and say, legitimately you said you want to boycott things that are created in China, manufacturing and stuff.

This could not be on the air. Your cell phones, I'm sure most of the parts, I mean everything but maybe the materials of the set were probably made in China. I know the actual set was designed here in the States but you're talking about something that at this point is impossible. You can't just say, oh we're done here.

So you have to do both, you have to do both. We're trying to get something manufactured in America right now, it's very difficult. You've been trying, I know, very tough, very tough. Alright folks, we're taking a break, we come back more on the singing band, we're going to take your questions. Friday you can ask us anything, 1-800-684-3110-800-6843110.

Little Israel discussion coming up with Iran, what else is new, more there. We'll also appreciate your support of the ACLJ at ACLJ.org. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support. For that we are grateful, now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge.

For every dollar you donate it will be matched, a $10 gift becomes $20, a $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ, the work we do simply would not occur without your generous support. Take part in our Matching Challenge today, you can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family.

Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn. It's called Mission Life, it will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v Wade 40 years later, the play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. By the way, our Senior Counsel Mike Pompeo for Global Affairs has an article coming up on international religious freedom that's going to be posted later this afternoon at ACLJ.org. We also mentioned earlier in the broadcast this case we have in California against the California state's refusal to allow chanting at any worship service, any singing at any worship service, no matter if there's ten people there in a stadium or a sanctuary that would hold a thousand, doesn't matter, ban on singing. We've got a great call coming in, let's say caller number one.

It really makes sense here. Derek in California, you're on the air. Hi Derek. Hi Jay, thanks for taking my call. Sure.

My question to you, I just want to know your thoughts on this. I have a Christian family and we're Dodger fans also and I was wondering what your thoughts were on why we can't sing in church and worship yet they televised like 10,000 or more people in Dodger Stadium chanting Let's Go Dodgers. You know, first of all, I'm a Dodger fan too.

I like the Dodgers and I will tell you this. Andy, there is no legal justification for this. I mean, the constitutional standard is least restrictive means. This clearly is not narrowly tailored to the least restrictive means. It is the most restrictive and it's the most restrictive on some faith communities where the liturgy is chanted.

Well, that's exactly right Jay. This is not the least restrictive means and that is the standard established by the Supreme Court of the United States, okay? And what they are trying to do is to suppress our right as Christians, as Jews, as Muslims, whoever that is who uses prayer through chant and singing in churches, mosques and synagogues from performing what God has ordained and that is to lift up your voice unto the Lord and to pray in songs and chants and in melodies and that California has taken a very determined view of this thing. But let me tell you, we have taken just as intransigent and determined a view against it by filing our lawsuit, filing our amended complaint and we are going to ultimately prevail in this, I am confident, Jay. Alright, we're taking more calls. It's Friday so we're going to take calls on a variety of these topics.

1-800-684-3110. Let's take another call. Alright, Mark in Colorado. You're on the air. Hi Mark. Line 2. Thanks for taking my call, Jay. Sure. And good job.

Thanks. Jay, I'm just uncertain on calling China out on genocide. Is it the ACLJ and the supporters or Congress? Or is it specifically the Biden administration who is in bed with them? No, so here's what's happened and I'm going to go to fan-bending on this but the Trump administration noted the genocide that was taking place, now the UK has.

The ACLJ through our European Center for Law and Justice which is our European affiliate based in Strasbourg, France but does work all over Europe. And we hope to expand that in the years ahead, months ahead. We pointed this issue out to the United Nations and advocated on it back in 2018. Fan, why don't you tell everybody, because Mark's asking a great question, what that actually means and what that actually looks like.

Yeah, it's a great question for Mark. I'm holding that report from 2018 in my hand. When we make these reports, Jay, and we file on virtually every country in the world once every four years.

China's was up in 2018. We filed this report, it's called a Universal Periodic Review and we outlined a lot of issues, as you explained Jay, but one of them was we outlined the very early stages of this persecution of the Uyghur community. It wasn't genocide at that point, it certainly is now, but Jay, it laid the groundwork for us to argue for countries around the world to label genocide and Mark asked a good question about the Biden administration because under the Trump administration, the United States agreed with us and they said it is genocide and we designate it on the way out and one of the most important reasons for them to do that, Jay, is the fact that I do not believe we would have gotten this administration to make that designation. We have tried to get designations under the Obama administration similar before, very difficult to do, but guess what they haven't done, Jay?

They haven't pulled it back. That's a lot harder than refusing to designate it in the first place. That's why it was so important to get it done before the end of the last term. I think it's important for people to understand the scope and nature, Logan, you said this earlier, of the work of the ACLJ. We've got European Center for Law and Justice, we have offices in Jerusalem, we have offices in Africa, we've got affiliated offices in a place we're not even going to mention, that are doing really important work. You see this, you hear this, but there's a lot going on behind this. Absolutely, and at ACLJ.org you can get a much bigger scope of what we do. I know it's easy to probably watch this show, see how slick the production is, and just assume that we're just more talking heads on television or radio, and nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with people giving their opinion and having those sort of news services, but we are well beyond a news service. We are out there actually doing the work, and again, because of people like you who support the organization at ACLJ.org. We had to fight for that UN.

I was just thinking back on this just as you were talking, Logan. We had to fight for that UN status. I mean, Andy, I don't know if you remember, this was going back a long time, four trips to the United Nations. They were granting approval to be, because you have to be recognized as an NGO. It's a big deal to have consultative status with the United Nations.

And, I mean, four times. I mean, the last time we did it and how we got it was, I mean, I went there with four of our senior people. We all put up in our briefcases, and I said, we're not leaving until we get it. And I went up to the secretary of the, or the President of that session, that was that whole issue. And remember, Russia and Turkey were objecting, because we had brought a lot of cases against the Russian government for religious persecution back in the 80s and 90s. And Turkey, of course, we were on top of that situation, and they were objecting. And that was going to be the basis upon which they denied our ability to be a recognized UN. But we kept coming. And finally, I will never forget this, as our name comes up, the representative from Russia and the representative from Turkey leave the room and are not there for the vote, and we get approved.

I don't know if you remember that, it's Andy, it's been a long time ago. But we fought hard for that status, and it's borne a lot of good fruit. Well, it really has, Jay.

You and I go back together 40 years. That's a long association and a long affiliation, and ACLJ has grown and prospered. But to use an analogy that you frequently use, it's like the old lady who goes to the rabbi's door, rapping and knocking on the door, to the judge's door, demanding justice, and justice you shall have, and demanding it until the door is open. And finally, she does get the justice that she demanded and ultimately received, that bit of rabbinic wisdom that I want to share with you today.

Luke 18, it was the parable of the unjust judge, and you're right, and that's what it took. That's where the whole ministry of Presidents came from, this showing up. And, you know, Thanh, I'll go back to you on this. The fact is that that act of about a year and a half to get our recognition was well worth the fight.

Well, definitely well worth the fight, Jay. And I'll just tell you maybe a little bit of anecdotal behind the curtains for our listeners here. When we go up to the United Nations in New York at the General Assembly, D.C.-style advocacy is very foreign there. So, you know, we're sort of used to, in America, pounding the pavement, walking the halls of Congress, getting free access to our elected officials. When we show up in New York and essentially do the same thing, and Rick alluded to this as well, it's very foreign to them. But here's the other thing it is, Jay. It's effective because it gets their attention.

Very few other people do that. When we show up and advocate in that way, it gets their attention. Yeah, I think that's the, I think that's the, look, I think that's the truth. I mean, that you have to be prepared to continue to come back and fight on this. And we're going to continue to do that.

So just look at what we talked about today. And the next segment, by the way, we'll take the rest of your calls and comments. 1-800-684-3110. Get them in now.

800-684-3110. We got calls about California and the church ban. We got calls about the 23rd Amendment and the D.C. statehood issue.

Those are all big. We'll talk about all that 800-684-3110 if you want to take, if you want to talk to us. But look what we've talked about today. We've talked about the situation on the international level that we're dealing with at the European Center for Law and Justice, an affiliate of the ACLJ, on the situation with the Uyghurs in China. And the fact that we were early on this issue. Back in mid-2015, we were talking about in 2018, we took formal action at the United Nations. Then we talked about that we're in court right now in California fighting for a, against a ban on singing and worship at church. Now a year, over a year into this pandemic with no reasonable restriction put in place. I mean, you could have these worships and the Supreme Court twice saying that these types of restrictions were unconstitutional.

Yet California refuses to allow these churches to fully operate. So this tells you what the situation is. And I think we have to be clear here that this is litigation.

We're in federal court. I think we're going to get some changes pretty soon. Victory. But we're going to have to keep fighting because this could happen again. I mean, who knows what happens with this pandemic? Hopefully we're on the other end of it.

But again, you know, you just don't know what's going to happen. So the toll on religious freedom this has taken has been pretty significant. But the American Center for Law and Justice has been front and center on that. I mean, I'm looking at our website right now.

UK joins US in condemning China on genocide. ACLJ involved in that. Bipartisan bill to push Biden on border crisis. We'll probably talk about that on Monday's broadcast. Again, we talked about it yesterday. We've got an ACLJ FOIA case involving documents regarding the Obama-Biden meetings with Iran and Jen Psaki.

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Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Hey, welcome back to the broadcast. Everyone taking your calls on 800-684-3110. We've got a lot of calls coming. We're going to go in the order that you've called. So we're going to go to Stan out of Ohio first. Stan, go ahead. You're on the air.

Thank you for taking my call. About 60 years ago, the 23rd Amendment was passed and ratified. Now it seems to me that in order for the Congress to make Washington, D.C. a state, they would first have to pass another amendment that would either change or repeal Amendment 23. Is that correct? I'm with you.

I don't see – Stan, I know you're up there dealing with this. I just don't see it. It says 10 square miles will be for the nation's capital. It's not to be a state. And there was reasons for that. And if they wanted to incorporate these people into states, the residents, well, maybe they could incorporate them into existing Maryland and Virginia where they border. The people have talked about that.

But it's just not what the Constitution says. Well, in fact, some of the original boundaries, Jay, have gone back to Virginia, so the eastern ones could go back to Maryland. But look, let me just tell Stan, here's the reality of what members of Congress think right now. The House of Representatives this week passed a bill to make D.C. the 51st state. It's been sent over to the Senate.

And, Jay, how many times have we had this conversation on this broadcast? What are its chances in the Senate? Well, it all depends on the legislative filibuster. That bill can't get to 60 votes in the United States Senate. I almost guarantee it.

But can it get to 50? It might. That's where we stand, Jay. Yeah, Andy, I don't see it – you know, you're right about – and fans write about they're going to use whatever they can to undo the filibuster. I'm convinced of that. And that's why the upcoming elections in Georgia are going to be so critical for the Senate. But, you know, there was a reason the founders put in the 10 square miles.

That's right. That would be an independent zone where the federal government operates and it's not to be a state. If it had been intended to be a state, the founders would have said it is a state and it would have named it a state. It is not. This is a Democratic power grab, Jay.

We know what this is. If you add another state, you get another two senators. And we know that those would be Democrat senators. And it would make it almost impossible for the Republicans ever to have a majority in the Senate and wait.

But it's because Puerto Rico is waiting in the wings right after Washington, D.C. But I think the caller is absolutely right. This is not constitutional the way that it is being done.

It is a Democratic power grab in the worst tradition of the way that party has become. There's no doubt about it. All right, we're going right back to our phones. Caller 68431, Ted Matthews calling on line 3 from Nevada.

Matthew, you're on the air. Yes, my question is the Constitution guaranteed every state a Republican form of government, correct? Yes. Go ahead. The Republican form of government is defined by the Constitution, right?

Yes. So if all legislative authority resides in a Congress, as Article I says, Gavin Newsom has no authority to do anything with the churches on his own in the first place. Well, I don't think he has anything to do with the churches because of the First Amendment. But there's also a Tenth Amendment to the Constitution. States do have authorities.

I mean, we can't. Police power rests, Andy, with the states. Yeah, there is a residual provision in the Constitution that all powers delegated, not delegated specifically to the federal government, are reserved unto the states. And that is what is the Tenth Amendment. So there is that residual power that goes to the states because our central government is a government of delegated powers, limited powers, restricted powers.

The sovereignty rests with the states. Van, we've also got some news to report, and that is Oklahoma has passed a bill deeming that churches are essential places of operation in Oklahoma. Yeah, Matthew's question actually gets to this news very directly. I mean, you know, federally, the First Amendment might say that churches need to be the last to be closed or restricted and the first to reopen. But on a state level, Jay, there's a lot of variance in how that can be applied. So we've been proactive as well. We've gone out to the states, specifically helped Oklahoma draft a bill to do what the Trump administration did federally, deem churches and house of worship essential. Jay, that passed the state house yesterday, and I suspect if things like what are happening in California continue to happen, you're going to see more states follow suit. So we're not just playing on the federal level. We're engaging statewide as well and saying you can do something about this. All right, Dan's calling from the District of Columbia. He's on Line 1. Dan, go ahead.

Yeah, hi, Jay. Thanks for taking my car. I just wanted to say, you know, the Constitution, California being a state in the United States of America, our Constitution is very clear on this issue. Congress shall make no laws restricting the freedom of religion or the practice thereof.

Restricting or abridging the freedom of religion or the practice thereof. So I think they should, the government of California and Governor Newsom, whoever came down the pipeline that directed this order, they should have lawsuits directly against them. We did. No, no. I'm holding it in my hand. Here it is. For our TV audience and watching on social media, there it is. It's in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of California, and it's a bunch of churches. And they have filed, and we have filed a lawsuit for those churches against Gavin Newsom in his official capacity. So it's exactly what we've done, and that's what we're fighting out right now. Cynthia's calling from Oregon on Line 2. Go ahead, Cynthia, you're on the air.

Thanks for taking my call, Jay. I was wondering how they could take the land of the D.C. area and make it a state when I thought that that land actually originally belonged mostly to Maryland. It was Maryland and Virginia, and it was then given to basically the federal government.

I don't see it. I mean, constitutionally, I don't see how that would be constitutional. What they could do is, and the people have talked about this, as I said, is kind of give voting rights based on the outlier communities, incorporating them into Maryland or Virginia. But really, you know, you live in the District of Columbia, you know you get to elect representatives, but they don't have a vote. That's why it's the District of Columbia.

It's not the State of Columbia. So there's a reason why the founders put that in there. I think we take a constitutional amendment, Andy, to undo it. Yeah, I agree with you totally. I don't think you can do it by legislation short of an amendment to the Constitution. That's not what the founders intended. Again, this is a Democratic power grab to get a majority and to hold on to a majority in the Senate.

Anybody who doesn't see that is blind. Okay, Richard, you're California. You're on the air. Go ahead. You're probably the last call of the day. Yes, sir.

God's blessing to all you guys. My question is, with the Biden administration and the involvement that they have with China and his family and everything else, isn't that going to undermine whatever you folks are going to try to do with the genocide or anything with China? Well, look, I mean, it doesn't make it easier, that's for sure, but I'll tell you this, and there's no doubt about this, Richard, and that is we're going to continue to fight for the principles that we think are right, and that includes that China's committing genocide on the Uyghur community and has on the Christian community in large extent, too. And we're not going to stop because this administration is, you know, wishy washy on it. In fact, we're going to get to the bottom of it. And when you have the United Kingdom now joining, true, it was a statement out of the Trump administration, but it's still binding, they've not pulled it back. That says a lot, as Dan said earlier.

We're going to continue to fight. So whether the administration is taking that position, that's why we brought on people like Rick Grenell, Mike Pompeo, and the people that you see on this broadcast every day are experts in this area, trained, been involved in government affairs for two decades. Andy and I have been practicing the law for 400 years, I joke and say, but almost 100 years collectively. It's hard to believe. You know, Jordan has got an LLM in international law from Georgetown.

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We'll talk to you next week. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20. A $50 gift becomes $100. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org.