Today on Sekulow, Don Lemon goes on his media tour. after his arrest. keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulow. We want to hear from you.
Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host. Welcome to Sekulow. Will Haynes here, and I'm joined by Jordan Sekulow in our Washington, D.C. studios.
But we're going to get into this because Don Lemon, after being arrested late last week by the DOJ for violations of the FACE Act when he participated in that disruption of the church service in Minneapolis, has decided the best time to go on television is now to talk about it, to tell his story. He went on Jimmy Kimmel last night, which I know for certain that had to have been. A planned outlet for him to go on. Obviously, he mentioned, you know, if you want to make me into Jimmy Kimmel, that's fine. And then, surprise, surprise, that's the show where he does his first interview post-arrest.
But, Jordan, as we look at this, and I think these are issues that we need to continue to talk about because the DOJ is prosecuting him under the FACE Act. This is something that at the ACLJ we have been very critical of the law, although it is still the law, because of the way it has been weaponized against pro-life advocates for a very long time.
Now we are seeing it being applied against the left, as you see. What Jimmy Kimmel did. We can go over the indictment in the next segment as well, as that came out late Friday. But now he is making this a press tour, trying to make it all about himself, and we will see where it goes from there. But I want to get your weigh-in on this as we see him trying to play the victim card when we saw exactly what he did in that church.
Yeah, he wants to be like the reporter martyr. And, Will, the truth is. Don Limond was an activist that day. And there's no bones about that. He went in to the church.
He didn't stay outside. And while the pastor was trying to get things under control with security, because the police didn't enter either. Don Limon tried to interview him live and put him on the spot.
So he took a lot of steps that had to coordinate with those protesters. And that's what DOJ will have to show: they had enough to show to get the indictment. But they will then have to show that he coordinated with the protesters, knowingly was going to enter. And if you do that, you violate the FACE Act. And as long as the FACE Act is law of the land, Don Limit should be treated just like any pro-life protester at an abortion clinic.
Jordan, one of the interesting things here is now you're seeing members of the left, those very people who were fine with this being a law when it went after pro-life protesters, are coming out and saying, maybe this is unconstitutional. Maybe this law shouldn't exist.
Now, I don't think that would save people from doing what they did in a church like Minnesota, what we saw in Minnesota. Obviously, there are trespass laws or other things that people can be charged with when they go and are violating someone's civil rights like that.
However, this also could end up being a tipping point where we see something like the FACE Act challenged on its constitutionality. And I want to get your take on that. Yep. Yeah, I mean uh none of us like the face act. Especially in the pro-life world, because it's so open to interpretation.
For instance, if you are causing any kind of distraction outside of an abortion clinic, that can be a criminal violation of the FACE Act.
Well, who decides what is a distraction?
Now, if you have 300 people outside of a church banging a drum, That's enough to violate the FACE Act because we know that's disruptive noise going into the church, not road noise, not normal noise, not an ambulance going by. But all in all, if this wakes the left up to the fact that they put a law in the book that restricted free speech, there's still laws that would protect that church. We don't need the FACE Act, but so long as it's there, we should utilize it. That's right, and we will talk more about this when we come back, including playing some of the sound. From Don Limon on Jimmy Kimmel last night, his description of his arrest.
And you're not going to want to miss that. But I also want to hear from you: do you think that. The DOJ pursuing charges against Don Lemon. It is the right move. Call me 1-800-684-3110.
That's 1-800-684-3110. And we'll be back with more in just a few moments, as well as some of the work that Jordan is up in DC working on right now. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Sekulow. We're discussing the interview that Don Lemon gave last night on Jimmy Kimmel, and we're going to play some sound from it in a moment.
But I also wanted to bring up what is in the indictment because that came out after our broadcast on Friday, where we talked about we knew that he had been arrested in Los Angeles by the FBI, then the Department of Justice. But the way that it is written in the indictment, which was presented to a grand jury, and the grand jury returned that indictment, is the fact that it's not just that he was there and recording, but when Don Lemon went. Into the church, he was taking direction from the organizer according to the indictment. From the organizer of the protest, the disruption, the riot, whatever you want to label it, of whom he should go interview from the church, whom he should go put on the spot.
So there's coordination there. Also, when he's with the pastor in the indictment, it says that. Don Lemon with two of the other Protesters, one of them is a co-conspirator, another indicted party. Two of these individuals went and kind of boxed the pastor in.
So, more coordination when he is peppering the pastor with those questions, as well as what we discussed on air, what we were kind of almost looking at it, predicting could be in there that he got in the pastor's face. When the pastor was trying to leave, he would not let him in and also said, Don't push me to the pastor. The intimidation factor there. When the pastor asked him to leave, he did not. He continued to report from there.
And then he blocked people from exiting the building when he finally did go out.
So, this was not someone just. chronicling As Don Lemon says, but this was someone who was actively disrupting what was supposed to be going on there. But, Jordan, I want to play this bite. This is from Jimmy Kimmel last night asking Don Lemon about the difference between the protesters and he, as Jimmy Kimmel refers to, a credentialed journalist, bite 18. Is there a difference between whether those protesters had the right to go into a church and whether a credentialed journalist like yourself had the right to go in and cover them going into the church?
Well, listen, obviously I'm in the middle of this. I can't say a lot. There's a lot that I cannot say. But what I will say is that I'm not a protester. I went there to be a journalist.
I went there to chronicle and document and record what was happening. I was following that one group around, and so that's what I did. I reported on them. But I do think that there is a difference between a protester and a journalist. Jordan, when you hear that, especially when you read what's in the indictment of how it lays out the coordination, this wasn't someone just chronicling, as well as even Jimmy Kimmel trying to say the difference between a credentialed journalist.
The First Amendment makes no qualifications. What is the press? It doesn't say you have to be a credentialed journalist. They try to create these levels of protection for themselves. But what are your thoughts on the way that Jimmy Kimmel tries to get that distinction out from Don Lemon and what we see in the indictment here?
One, it's a 1990s distinction. Everyone is a journalist now because everyone's got a camera with them. And so it's changed that has changed the law in the sense that if you and I were walking down the street here in Washington, D.C., and there was a large protest came by, of course, we could video it, we could upload it, we could use it on our show. That doesn't mean we were part of the protest or part of the organizing. And if those protesters started to enter a building illegally or tried to get involved with police, that again would not implicate us if we were just walking down the sidewalk.
Now, if we coordinated with those protesters and knew their plans. And said, we want to be there from the outside to the inside. That's where things start to change. Because you're not just there reporting on live news that's happening outside your control. You're now part of the control group.
And all of us can be journalists now. I mean, Don Lemon is still a journalist, even though he's no longer with a major network, and no one's questioning whether he is. He has his podcast and things like that. But he decided to take that step. That next step, which is you're not just covering the event, you're becoming a participant.
And by going up to the pastor who did not really want to talk to him, who was trying to figure out the chaos in his church and put him on the spot, I actually think that makes him look more like a protester and less like a journalist. That's right, Jordan. And I want to play this as well. This is bite 23 because it's Don Lemon describing his arrest in L.A. And one thing that Logan has cautioned is that this is exactly to some degree what Don Lemon wants.
He wants to be relevant again. He wasn't relevant. And so there is that fine line of holding people accountable. And I personally believe that he should be held accountable for his participation in that. But he's loving this.
He is turning it into something all about himself. This is no longer about even what the purpose of the disruption and the protests claim to be about, about ICE and about immigration enforcement. This is now all about Don Lemon. And let's hear how he describes this horrible event and this arrest that took place after a grand jury returned an indictment against him. Byte 23.
Mm-hmm. I got back to the hotel, I walked in, I had my swag bag from the thing, and I was walking up to the room and I pressed the elevator button. And all of a sudden, I feel myself being jostled, and people trying to grab me and put me in handcuffs. And I said, What are you doing here? And they said, We came to arrest you.
And I said, Well, who are you? And then finally they like identified themselves and I said, if you are who you are, then where's the warrant? And they didn't have a warrant, so they had to wait for someone from outside, an FBI guy, to come in to show me a warrant on a cell phone. And by that time, I was like trying to, you know. Figure out what was going on to get my bearings and dropped, they dropped all my stuff.
My glasses had fallen on the floor. I'm like, I can't read that.
So they had to pick my glasses up and I read it. And still, what does that mean? You know, so I. And then it was a bunch of guys, and they took me outside. FBI guys were out there.
I mean, it had to be maybe a dozen people. Which is a waste, Jimmy, of resources, because I had told them weeks before, maybe once or twice, that we would, you know, I think my attorney tried to contact them once, maybe twice. That I could just go in, and it would have to be the folks who are just working there that day, and they wouldn't have to have all these people. following me around. Once again.
Jordan making it about himself the The details of which he tells of, you know, I can't read that. I need my glasses back on. It's just the absurdity of trying to tell this story and make it about himself.
So I think Logan's caution to us that we've discussed on here before of, Him becoming the main character, him becoming relevant again, is something that is something we should be concerned about because elevating him to this status of the martyr for the left is what he's trying to do. But we know one thing from Don Lemon. The more he talks, The the bigger hole he digs for himself. He did that at CNN, he got fired. And so, if he starts doing that again because he's got this attention, while I understand the idea of you don't want necessarily to make someone who's a professional.
on TV. Into the martyr instead of the grassroots activists actually on the ground in Minneapolis who are doing these acts every single day, trying to coordinate these illegal acts against law enforcement. I do think that if you were going to pick a high-profile former mainstream journalist out of CNN, leftist journalist out of CNN, Don Lim is the best one. Because he talks in language that is very, I'd say, probably tough for his lawyers, especially like when he said, well, the purpose of the protest is to traumatize kids. I mean, all those kinds of statements start adding up.
You start digging.
So it might start with Jimmy Kimmel, but when he's actually going to be interviewed, if he actually takes any real interviews from real journalists, I think that's where, again, Don Lemon gets himself in trouble. And you don't have to worry as much about him being the martyr for the left. He wants to be. This leftist leader out of this moment, and I'm not sure that the media has already kind of moved on from it. I think that's also very fair.
I also think that you cannot decide to not hold people accountable. Just because they are going to get 15 minutes more fame out of it. And I think that is the big, the big problem here. And as we will carry this discussion on into the other next segment as well, as well as if you want to call and talk to us about it on air, 1-800-684-3110. But, Jordan, I think this ties into everything that we talked about yesterday with you at the International Religious Freedom Summit, with that panel that you did that we showed a video from and were able to talk to you about, as well as even tomorrow.
We have attorneys that will be with a client who's testifying. Before the Kansas legislature. Because their students in sixth grade were told you can't. You can't speak your mind in an assignment called finding your voice. And when the teachers asked people to write their heroes on the board.
They were ostracized by writing President Trump or Charlie Kirk. It seems to be that the only protected speech that people like Don Lemon and the left want is their own activist speech. And they can disrupt your church service and say it's journalism. They can disrupt your church service and your freedom of worship and say this is our freedom of assembly. They are trying to weaponize the Constitution against people of faith now.
And we are not going to stand for it, Jordan. That's why we do all this work at the ACLJ. That's right. Support the work of the ACLJ at aclj.org. We need you to donate today.
It's an important time for us. We're going to talk about what we're doing in Washington, D.C. as well. Busy week here in Washington. But support our work.
aclj.org donate today. Welcome back to Sekulow. Will Haynes here. I'm joined by Jordan Sekulow from our DC studios. And Jordan, you've had a very busy week up there.
We are going to continue talking about Don Lemon and going on Jimmy Kimmel and his media tour, as well as some of the sound from the Attorney General, pushing back on some of the statements that Don Lemon has made. But I also wanted to bring into focus what is going on in DC because there is a lot going on domestically. Congress there debating things like a shutdown, as well as the SAVE Act, which is getting a lot of attention. But, Jordan, you're up there. You were at the International Religious Freedom Summit yesterday, as well as Cece Heil, who people know from this broadcast.
She moderated a panel. I know some of our office is still over at the International Religious Freedom Summit today as you are broadcasting with us. But, Jordan, you're also meeting. With members of Congress. You have very important work that is being carried out that is the work of the ACLJ, that is important for those that support the ACLJ and ACLJ action as you take these meetings, as you present things to these members of Congress that can do something about it legislatively, not just the activism side that you see from the ACLJ.
Yeah, that's right. I mean, just last night, so this was after I'd already been on the air with you guys about the International Religious Freedom Summit, and our team is still participating as of today. There's some of the panels like that CC was hosting that are called these action panels that are focused in on specific areas, and they're like over three days. And it leads up into the prayer breakfast at the end of this week in Washington, D.C., which we'll have ACLJ team members at. But just to give you like a little switch, it's happening today.
So, I mean, last night we spent some time with Congress Congressman Brad Knott out of North Carolina. We spent time with Congressman Ashley Hinson out of Iowa, who is running for Senate because Joni Erst is retiring. Both talking to them about bringing him on ACLJ, getting them involved in the work that we do. Brad is a new member of Congress, just about a year that he's been a year in office, and getting to know them. Saw Senator Cruz, saw Congressman Jordan as well, who's been at the top, of course, of the Jack Smith testimony and what happened with Arctic Frost.
And of course, Senator Cruz is someone we work really closely with his team and him directly.
So you could, again, we have the summit. We had those meetings that came together. And then tomorrow, I'm actually moderating a panel. In the Rayburn House office building, and that panel is on the App Store Freedom Act. I'm doing that with Congressman Cormick out of Florida and a representative from Garmin and a representative from Samsung.
And they are there primarily to discuss, I mean from Spotify actually, the way that the app stores work and how they take, you know, Apple takes 30% of everything that you purchase through an app. And you've got to make an app specific for the Apple Store. You have to make an app specific for Google Play and all of that. And that you can't just create an app. Put it on your website or send it out on X.
And people can't just download it regardless of their device. It has to be the right one, and you're giving up a significant amount of money. And there's that distinction between we want technology to flourish, we want to be the leader.
So we allow these companies for a long period of time. to almost have a monopoly. And then you have to decide at what point Have we given them enough time on that issue to where we need to make this more fair for the small businesses and organizations and the consumers as well? And so that's what the discussion is tomorrow.
So where you may think ACLJ is religious, liberty, life, some of the international issues like Israel, there we are on antitrust, the app store, which again affects all of our supporters as well. It also affects how we're able to get our message out.
Well, and Jordan as well, when you talk about the complexity of these issues, you talk about antitrust, but it also does fundamentally go back to things like the freedom of speech, the freedom of religion. Those issues are still woven into these issues because of the way that individuals are able to get their message out or able to raise grassroots support. Things of that, it all ties back to the very core mission of the ACLJ. But I also think. We've had our director of government affairs on the broadcast many times, Mark Kelly, that when we were very excited, we were able to bring him onto this team and revamp and put in this work to rebuild the ACLJ government affairs arm.
You're seeing the fruits of that in real time. And that's where things like this don't just happen. There are plenty of groups that are advocates for the First Amendment, for the issues that we fight in court, but also that is why it is so important that we have that presence on Capitol Hill. Because we can do as much as we can through the courts, but sometimes you have to be proactive. You have to go the legislative route.
You have to have these relationships, even just being able to, you've known Chairman Jordan and Senator Cruz for a very long time because of the way that the ACLJ is able to operate, not just in the courtroom, but also in D.C. And as we continue to build our government affairs office, it shows in these meetings, these panels that you are a part of, the influence that the ACLJ members, those that support this organization, the influence they have. Because they create what is able to happen as you are there in DC right now. Yeah, I mean we have you know a great friend of ours Mike Johnson as Speaker of the House. If that's not enough, to motivate people.
To get out the vote in the midterms, especially our audience, I'm not sure what else is because he's really one of us. An attorney, religious liberty attorney, ran for Congress, was not looking to be Speaker of the House and has become a multi-year Speaker of the House and effective and gotten legislation through.
Now we need to start getting legislation through the Senate. But you're right, Will, you have to have the relationships here. and the trust. And we have it two ways. via government affairs and legislation and as attorneys.
And so when you gain that attorney level trust, With a member of Congress, the relationship there, you're able to do a lot of positive things. And so, whether we're doing that at the state level with governors and attorney generals, state representatives and leaders there, or we're doing it here at the federal level, we're able to get work done two ways. We know a lot of legislation, even once signed into law, will be challenged. in court.
So we're able to, one, assist in drafting to make sure it's as strong as possible in case it is challenged in court.
So we're able to offer something that most of these case tree lobbyists don't have. And we're able to do that as an organization. That's right. And, Jordan, I know you've got a lot ahead today.
So, folks, Jordan will be leaving me after this segment of the broadcast. And I appreciate you taking the time out of that schedule to be able to get on here and speak directly to our audience and speak directly to ACLJ members and champions about the work you're doing, as well as the team that's up there. A lot of times, because of the media center, we do. We try to have as many attorneys from DC and around the country, as well as our government affairs, on as much as possible. But It's also that balance of not taking them away from the important, very busy schedules that they have going on in DC.
And all of that is possible because of you, the ACLJ member and champion. And once again, we're talking about this religious freedom issue. As Jordan was at the International Religious Freedom Summit yesterday, much of our team is still there today, but it's a busy week. Because we had that yesterday and today. Tomorrow, we're filing an amicus brief at the U.S.
Supreme Court to stop California from forcing Christian schools to make Christian education optional. Tomorrow, we will be before the Kansas Senate. with our client The mother of a child who was reprimanded for calling Charlie Kirk and President Trump heroes in a school assignment on Finding Your Voice, and a lot more as the ACLJ continues this work. But we can't do any of it without you. And that's why we encourage you to support the work at aclj.org or become an ACLJ champion.
Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulow. Welcome back to Sekulow, second half hour of the broadcast. If you want to talk to me on air, call me at 1-800-684-3110. And I'm going to get to some of these calls right away.
In the next segment, we have Rick Rinnell joining us as well.
So you won't want to miss that. And if you're watching for the first time, if you're just now getting served this, go ahead and click subscribe, like the video. It helps us get the word out to more. But this isn't your typical news analysis show because here at the ACLJ, it's not just about talking about things, it's also about doing things. When we talk about The FACE Act that Don Limon is being charged with violating.
This is something that the ACLJ attorneys deeply know because these are cases that we've worked on here at the ACLJ for decades. When we talk about religious freedom and protecting a church from an angry mob that is trying to disrupt it, these are the types of cases that this organization has taken on and fought and win all. all the time throughout our 35-year history. When we talk about Jordan being in D.C., it's not just to watch events or to feel like you're in the center of government, the seat of government. And so it's just kind of a fun business trip.
It's because he's there for work. For hard work, whether it be at the International Religious Freedom Summit yesterday. Discussing these issues, why it's so important to fight against persecution, not just abroad. But to stop it from coming here to America as well. But our attorneys are busy all the time.
We have attorneys going out to Kansas tomorrow to be with our client who will be testifying before the Kansas Senate. About new legislation that has come about because of an ACLJ case. Where we had to file complaints with the Department of Justice as well as the Department of Education. Over a school that not only told the students you can't have Charlie Kirk or President Trump or a religious figure as your hero. In an assignment called Finding Your Voice, but then told them, hey, If There's ever an issue again.
Don't tell your parents. Just come to us. And talk about these issues. Don't take this home. Remember, we're your family too.
These are the kinds of things that are going on in this school. And now, because of this case, the legislature in Kansas is also like, wait a second, this isn't okay. We have to do something.
So, our attorneys will be in Kansas tomorrow with that client, hearing so the legislature can hear that client's story. and be able to make informed decisions in the legislation they present. Whether or not that is what they want for Kansas. But I want to go straight to the phones as we continue. Talking about the interview that Don Lemon gave with Jimmy Kimmel last night.
Let's go to Warren calling from Idaho on line one. Warren, you're on Sekulow. Hey, thanks for taking my call. Yes, my question is with that Yeah, he's not a journalist. We'll talk about that later.
But isn't a church private property? And when the pastor says you guys need to leave, doesn't that invoke like a private property? I know the public can come in, but I would think it's private property.
Well, and once again, Warren, that's why we were even saying, even without the FACE Act, there could be other avenues to hold people accountable, trespassing laws, things of that nature, that doesn't even have to have this specific statute. But Since it is on the books and it hasn't been deemed unconstitutional. They're using it against pro-life protesters, then, yes, it is something that he violated according to the indictment, what's alleged in that indictment. He violated that statute. He interfered with the service.
He did not leave when he was asked to leave. He cornered the pastor with two of the protesters according to the indictment.
So the pastor really couldn't go anywhere. And when the pastor is trying to get by him, he says, don't push me, as if he's not the one containing the pastor and intimidating the pastor. And then the pastor asked them to leave unless they are there to worship. And once again, they did not.
So we're going to get into more of that as well, but we have Rick Rinnell coming up in the next segment. But if you enjoy what you're hearing, if it makes you want to fight against what we see in this country going on against people of faith, join the ACLJ today. Go to aclj.org, support this work, or become a recurring donor. An ACLJ champion at ACLJ.org. Welcome back to Sekulow.
We're joined now by Rick Grinnell. And, Rick, this is something I want to talk about right off the bat because it's not something that typically would be uh headlines everywhere. Right? I mean, we're seeing this as if this is the most shocking story. Ever in the United States.
And that is that President Trump is going to refurbish the Kennedy Center. And you would think that this was indeed the first shots of World War III based off some of the reporting we're seeing. But if anyone has been watching this show ever since that became one of the roles that you have in the administration. You've been talking about deferred maintenance and what poor shape the Kennedy Center has been in since day one, since you first took on that role. And now, all of a sudden, this seems to be the craziest idea ever that a government building that is in poor shape would be renovated.
What's going on here, Rick? Look, this is maximum Trump derangement syndrome because, look, we all know something. uh about Washington DC and that is that They love the power of the problem. They want the problem. They don't want to get rid of the problem because then it gets rid of their power.
So they will kick the can down the road, make everybody come to them, make themselves the center of the problem and the process. And Donald Trump is just somebody who's different. He's a problem solver. He comes in and he says, Here's a problem, let's solve it. He has done that with the border.
He has done that with a variety of different issues in foreign policy. He's done that with the now Trump Kennedy Center. Because the fact is He secured the funding. two hundred fifty seven million dollars. to save the entire building.
We fixed the finances. We have the money to fix the building. And this was a simple. process where you think rather than a five-year sign that says harden our dust. And it takes us forever and lots of inconveniences.
We've decided. that for a very short period of time, we're going to close and fix it fast. We'll be done in less than two years. And the reality is, is that Retrospectively, we're going to look back and say this was a brilliant. move to secure the funding to just rip the bandaid off and fix the place.
And then have an amazing grand opening. Too many times in Washington, we kick the can down the road and we allow the problem to fester because we've got people who love Being in the center of the problem. And Donald Trump has said, let's just fix it. Why not fix it? Buildings, hospitals.
Restaurants, hotels constantly go through renovations, and sometimes they're like closed for renovations. We see that fine every day, it's not a big deal. And I think that gets to a deeper point, though. You say they love the problem, but this is a problem that Americans, the press historically, have complained about all the time with government is when they have done it the old way, the normal way, if you will, what I guess these journalists would prefer to see, the pardon our dust signs, the scaffolding everywhere, the eyesores that some of our most beautiful monuments have been in the past for decades sometimes because of doing it, just that's the way we've always done it, then you see that's the complaint. Instead of saying Hey, let's not go five years over schedule and billions of dollars over budget, as you see all across the country because of the way the government has worked for so long.
When someone tries to do something novel, It is outrage. And I genuinely think this is what has been so different about Trump administrations: saying, hey, this is broken. Let's try to do something different. But I do wonder, is it all Trump derangement syndrome? Or is it something that when it comes down to the way that DC in many ways has been so broken with overspending, waste, fraud, and abuse?
That is, is it something that if someone else tries to do it the Trump way in the future? because they can see they can save the taxpayer money, they can save an institution, they can make it not ugly for half a decade or more? Is it something that they're going to try and get the same criticism from? Or is it only because it's Donald Trump? Only because it's Donald Trump.
I mean, look, these people have lost their mind. We've always known that Washington loves the problem. That's why we have a $38 trillion national debt and nobody can say no and make big institutional changes. They want to kick the can down the road and they want to make political decisions. The arrival of President Trump into Washington DC in twenty seventeen was historic because it challenged the status quo in every possible way.
And what did they do? They made up this lie about him being a Russian spy, so they tried to impeach him multiple times. Then they tried to indict him ninety plus times to try to make sure he wouldn't run again. And what we know is that President Trump, he's an unorthodox. politician, he fixes problems.
And yes, does it make them inconvenienced in the short term? Absolutely. But does it fix the problem for long term? Yes. Rick, I also saw you a photo last night at a Melania premiere with Nikki Minaj, who has been making some big waves within the Republican Party of late in the conservative movement.
And once again, what you saw, the way that the Grammys tried to mock people who think differently than them, while Don Lemon is celebrated. For disrupting a church service. I know that Hollywood and the music industry are just outrage machines, and that's really the only thing that they have going for them. But this is, I think, an important moment because you're seeing the most unlikely of people from just the industry that they're in speaking up. Speaking rationally, saying, hey, uh The left in America wants to shut down church services.
And not only that, they are going to celebrate the individuals who participate in that with standing ovations at award ceremonies like the Grammys. But meanwhile, if you are just a straight thinker or try to challenge the status quo, you are completely ostracized. And I wanted to know, I mean, not to get into any private conversations or anything like that, but what was it like kind of in that moment? As it's definitely getting shared on social media, the way that people People's minds are being open to, hey, maybe. What these industries and the left are doing is it what's the best interest for this country?
Yeah, look, I think somebody like Nikki Minaj, who I got to know and sat with at the Melonia, film premiere. is is incredibly brave. She is somebody who has seen the pinnacle of success in Hollywood. And in the music industry, and she doesn't like what she sees. And She's powerful enough and rich enough and still on brand enough that she can stand up.
and say what she thinks. and challenge the status quo being a disruptor Look, my personality is just I'm really fond of the disruptors. They're not always the most popular people in the room. Uh but they're safers and they're people I would argue who care enough to do something? How many people just care enough to like talk to their friends privately?
I think the next step after a private conversation is maybe you make some suggestions or complain about something Publicly on social media, or you go to a rally. But very few people in positions of power who are benefiting from the problem or the crisis or the process. Very few people stand up and say, no, I'm going to risk it all and I'm going to say this isn't right. I really I really liked her courage. And she, I can tell you, is very focused.
on making changes. This is someone who has seen it and has had enough.
Well, Rick, thank you so much for joining us. And I think what you even said there, having courage to speak up, even if it is just. within your your friend group or your family. And I think as well, I go back to some of the conversations even I've had with family members that don't necessarily align with my views on issues, the current events of the day, but being able to have those conversations respectfully with your family and friends, but also having the courage to do it and not feeling like you have to toe a line just because you want to keep peace or things of that nature. It doesn't have to be divisive.
You can be truthful. You can speak the truth in love. You can have these conversations and really be courageous in what You believe And it not have to be the end of relationships, end of the world. I know that at the end of the day, that will happen. That will happen to many people because of the intolerance for even conservative views at this point.
But as Rick said, having that courage and seeing that for someone who doesn't necessarily need it. They don't have to speak out. They do have a very successful career at the pinnacle of their career. Why would they need this? But it is about that conviction, about talking about what you see and calling out hypocrisy or lies where they exist as well.
And so we're going to take your phone call in the next segment: 1-800-684-3110. Anthony, you're up first, then William. But I've got some lines open. Call me at 1-800-684-3110. We'll be right back.
Welcome back to Sekulow, final segment of the broadcast. I'm going to get to these phone calls. And if you want to join me on air, 1-800-684-3110 is the number to call. I'm going to go to Anthony calling from New York online too. Anthony, welcome to Sekulow.
Good afternoon, sir. Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. Oh, thank you. My comment on the mister Lemon issue You know, the law is the law, whether we like it or not.
whether it needs to be changed or not. Right now, it is the law of the land. And everyone should be treated the same way. not just these special groups that are the laws being applied to? And then there are other groups that It doesn't seem to be applied to If this man broke the law, we're going to go through the natural process the way it should be, and the law should be applied to him being no different than anyone else.
That's my comment there. Yeah, I hear you, and I think that's exactly where we're at on this. This is not a law that the ACLJ traditionally loves, mainly because it has been used so one-sidedly against people that are pro-life protesters. And they've weaponized it and taken a lot of liberties with the text and the way that it's interpreted when they go after pro-life protesters. When you see what happened here, Where the group, it was premeditated to commit this offense.
Because I don't even see Don Lemon.
Now, he may be saying, I can't talk a lot about it, but he's not out there saying, Yeah, I mean, the protesters broke the law, but I didn't. But he knew of their plans to go commit an offence. And He, even as he live streamed, said, I have to keep their. Uh their conspiracy to commit this crime a secret. I don't want to reveal details.
So he's protecting their plan. It wasn't as if he was like, I don't know where they're going to go. I'm going to follow them. And I show up. Oh, we're at a church.
I didn't know this. He knew the whole thing. He went and participated. As you read the indictment, the way that he boxed in the pastor with two of the other protesters, one of them is also indicted under this. Eight people have been indicted.
The way he won't leave the pastor alone when he is trying to get him. To leave him alone so he can go take care of his congregation. All of this, it reads, he is an active participant. But one of the things that bugs me as well, and Jordan even made reference to it. He said they're using journalists in like the 1993 sense of the term.
And even Jimmy Kimmel, when he was asking him, is there a difference between those protesters? And whether they had a right to go into the church or whether a credentialed journalist like yourself had the right to go in and cover them going into the church. Obviously, it's a very simplistic way of breaking down what happened. But even that term credentialed journalist, one, Yeah. Is Don Lemon credentialed by himself?
Because he's an independent journalist now, but even that term, credentialed, that has nothing to do with what the First Amendment says with the freedom of the press. It says Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of the press, almost as if if they did make a law saying to be a journalist, you have to be credentialed. That may be more unconstitutional.
So they're trying to still get this get out of jail free card. Like, you're allowed to go trespass if you're a credentialed journalist. You're allowed to violate the FACE Act and interview whomever you like at any point and force them, hold power to account if you have a credential. It's just, it's a mind-boggling twisting of what this concept is. And they actually are the ones that want to say less people are journalists.
That's why some people will ask: why do you keep calling Don Limon a journalist? I think he. He can be. I think he has done. Things that are journalism.
I don't agree with his takes many times. It is definitely an opinion-based journalism. It's still journalism. He still participates in that, but. Journalism doesn't give you a license to violate the law.
And even if you are doing things in a journalistic style and violating the law, that doesn't shield you from that.
So I just wanted to get into that a little bit. But let's go to William Calling from Nevada on line five. William, you're on Sekulow. Yes, concerning the post protest that we shot, Uh Um is there The DOJ concern with if they have a trial and everything, it's going to be in Minnesota because it it would al I would think it would be already prejudiced. And oth and w do they have a choice to get a a non activist Judge.
Just to make sure I'm clear, this would be if there for some reason were charges against the ICE agents. Is that? Yeah.
Okay.
So, what I would say there is: one, the FBI is conducting an investigation that was confirmed by members of DHS. I heard this morning as well. The members of that team also had body cams.
So, I think a lot of information from that will inform the Department of Justice. They would be the ones bringing the charges in that case. I'm sure the state, if they wanted to, maybe able to try and find some state statutes if it were warranted. I don't Personally, see it going that way unless what they have on those body cams changes the mind of the Department of Justice.
So, I really don't know that that's something they're concerned about at this time.
However, if there is a reason for those charges to be brought, and it's brought by the Department of Justice, I think that could also inform that what the DOJ saw was a violation of the law, in their opinion, and therefore it'd go to court.
So, William, I think our call screener thought it was more on the situation with Don Lemon and the judges there. But once again, if it's a criminal case, also you're looking at a jury trial. Yes, the judge has a lot of leeway of evidence, excluding evidence, allowing things, allowing defenses. But at the end of the day, it's going to be a jury of the defendant's peers that's looking into that.
So, hope that clears it up a little bit. But once again, there haven't been charges brought against those agents at least as of today when we're live on air.
So I don't think that's a concern at this point. But we are out of calls today. And I wanted to take this last couple minutes here of this broadcast to talk about what we are doing. And I think it all ties together today because. All of this stems from what happened at that church in Minnesota.
And the Don Lemon trying to make himself a celebrity out of this and trying to say he's just a journalist, just covering what was happening in that church. And I think I saw some commentary about the Face Act that the Face Act was able to pass. And Jordan has talked about this many times on air. Because they originally didn't have the section in it protecting houses of worship. But the left so desperately wanted this law that, as a compromise, They added this section about houses of worship.
And it's not something we've traditionally had to be as concerned about because. Who who would go after houses of worship in the way that we saw? And there was a a stark shift in what The realm of possibility of what protesters would do and what the left would do against people exercising their faith, and we saw that in Minnesota. And so, as we talk about all this work that the ACLJ is doing, whether it be Jordan at the International Religious Freedom Summit, talking about our work. All around the world protecting religious liberties and the persecuted, defending them, standing up for them.
And whether it be at home, where students are unable to exercise their First Amendment rights because it goes against the viewpoint of a teacher or a school district. It all ties together, folks. That's the work the ACLJ does every single day, protecting your First Amendment rights. And if you ever need the ACLJ, We are here for you at nocostaclj.org.
