President Trump makes final warning to Hamas: ceasefire now or complete obliteration. Keeping you informed and engaged.
Now more than ever. This is Sekulow. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now, your host, Logan Secula.
Welcome to Secula. Will Haynes joining me in studio CC Highle later on. Mike Pompeo, also later on. It's going to be a packed show. Give us a call if you have a question or comment at 1-800-684-3110.
That's 1-800-684-3110. Excited to have us be back here on a Monday as we are still awaiting. A formal response. It seems like it's going to happen, though, from Hamas, as things seem to be heading in the right direction for a potential end to the war. Uh, President Trump is certainly not backing down, saying that kind of this is it now or never, it's time, or really, they're going to give the AOK to Israel to do what they have to do.
And of course, that is not what is wanted. That certainly is not wanted from the Trump administration. They want to see peace, they want to see some kind of negotiated deal. Uh, but it's now in Hamas's court, if you will, has it been for a number of numerous days now, but now we are seeing um. Potentially, as they're having what do they call them, their meetings, but they're not together.
Negotiations, they're indirect talks between Israel and Hamas. And this comes after Hamas said they're committed to reaching an agreement. To end the war, what they are negotiating in Cairo today. And there's American delegations there. There's from the other Arab partners who have delegations there, as well as Israel and Hamas.
Is they are they are negotiating how They will carry out that first step of the plan, which is release all the hostages and begin the ceasefire.
So That's what they're talking about today. They are expected to get into the technical details of how to implement that first phase. All the other things. Flow after that.
So, if they can't even get to an agreement of how to release the hostages and start that ceasefire, then none of the other stuff will flow from that. But Hamas is saying they're committed to reaching an agreement. We'll see what happens today. Yeah, hopefully we get some sort of answers today. We'll keep you updated throughout the day if there is anything big and breaking that we'll need to cover.
So make sure if you're watching right now to subscribe on our YouTube channel or wherever you get our show, make sure you're a part of the team right now. That's at aclj.org. Phone lines, like I said, are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. That is to have your voice heard on the air. Do you think this is it?
Now, there's obviously the thought process of what does the end of a war really look like when you fought a multi-thousand-year war? What does it look like from the response from the more liberal side of this? Are they going to be happy? I mean, some of my friends are happy in general that are more on the other side of this. They want the war to just be over and they want, if you just are searching for an end of a war, that's great.
But I've already seen the seeds being planted of, well, that's not going to forgive Israel for what they've done, for the genocide that they've, you know, quote-unquote genocide that they have put onto these people.
So then what does that look like then? Does the protests still happen? Do they still happen in the streets? Do we still see a response, anti-Semitic response throughout the world? That is going to be the turning point that we see.
There's honestly another interesting bit of this: then, how the Jewish people are accepted, how Israelis are accepted around the world. We saw a number of Of performers and artists, musicians pull their music, geo-block their music from Israel as if that is going to really do any good that doesn't come off racist at all, that you are blaming an entire country over what their government, you've decided their government's not going to do. But you also see cancellations. Robbie Williams, who's a big, you know, probably one of the biggest stars on a global platform, not really has not had as big of America success, but he's been a huge star outside of America. He has a stadium tour right now that was supposed to end in Turkey this week.
I think it was actually supposed to be tomorrow.
So on October 7th. We're supposed to end on October 7th. They've had so many threats and his wife is a Turkish-born Jewish woman. They've had so many threats calling him a Zionist. That Turkey decided it could not figure out a way to secure that stadium enough to have the show and cancel the end of their tour, which was supposed to end this big celebratory night of, again, probably the least political show you probably could go to.
would be to see Robbie Williams. Uh but of course because he has some Jewish connections. It has a Hebrew tattoo. That is enough. Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-30110.
Also, think about supporting the work of the ACLJ. If you become an ACLJ champion today, I want to say thank you to all the champions already, the tens of thousands of you. But if you can become a champion, that's great. That's someone who gives on a monthly basis. Just go to aclj.org, scan the QR code that's on your screen.
We'll be right back. Welcome back to Sekulow. Thanks for joining us today. Again, Will Haynes in the studio with me right now, and we'll have some other guests later on as we are talking about the Plan right now that could end the war. In Gaza, as we have a final deal, Will, that is sitting on the shoulders.
of Israel. They have agreed to it. Uh But Hamas has not yet fully agreed. Even though they've said we'll release all the hostages, they have not come to the final agreements on some of the planned. Uh Yeah.
Which would be very impressive if President Trump was able to pull that off. But they're even calling this the Trump plan. You know, we're seeing that the way Netanyahu is referring to this. And even said if the Trump plan doesn't get signed, that America is sort of given the the go-ahead. for them to uh finish the job.
Well, and that's why these next few days are so important to this, because they are there actually negotiating how to implement the first portions of this plan. Which that was what President Trump was very clear about up front: is that all the hostages have to be released?
So remember, there's 48 hostages that they believe are remaining either alive or dead in the hands of Hamas at this point. They are demanding all of those, whether living or the remains of those that have passed away or been killed by Hamas, to be returned to Israel. On the other side of that, there's some prisoner releases that can come from this from the Israeli side, giving back to the Palestinian side.
Some of those are people that were arrested post-October 7th. Others are people that were just in prison in Israel from previous times as well. There's normally, whenever you get to one of the end of these wars between Israel and Hamas, there is this kind of prisoner swap situation going on. Normally, it's not civilian hostages that you're dealing with.
So that if we can get that done in the next few days, if they can come to a framework. where that piece begins and all the hostages are returned home. As well as the beginning of that ceasefire, I think that gives a very big sign to the world that we could see this get all the way to the end. Because the other parts, once they start giving up what really has been their bargaining chip to some degree, the other parts, it's going to be harder for them to push back when you've got Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Qatar, the UAE, Turkey, all of these countries that are more favorable to the cause of the Palestinians than they are to Israel, saying, hey, You're going to get this done this time. Yeah, there's a call coming in I want to take because it kind of begs that question.
Let's go to Phil in New York, who is listening on the radio. Phil, go ahead. Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Don't get me wrong when I ask this, I'm a fervent supporter of Israel and I donate a lot. Lot of money to Israeli charities.
That having been said, self-preservation is a strong motive, both for an individual and an organization. Why, therefore, would Hamas agree? to a deal that can Well, it you feel to I understand your point here. It does call for the end of Hamas, but what it doesn't do is it really gives immunity. to all of those currently Working with Hamas, the leadership, people, this is they're going to be held for no issues, no criminality.
You know, kind of all is forgiven in a way.
So, if you're there's two different options: they can either stay in the country and agree to nonviolence, or they can not agree to nonviolence and be moved to another country. But either way, the deal actually provides for the people who currently are in Hamas. Uh to walk away. To end this, so I mean, yeah, self-preservation is strong. This could be the self-preservation they need because we know when the Israeli military comes in, because these are the, like, what?
This is like the 10th string, Hamas leadership at this point.
Well, and Phil, I think that you are spot on by saying self-preservation is a strong motive for anyone because I think a lot of the people that are the leaders of Hamas now have seen the writing on the wall. People like Yahya Sinwar, who was untouchable, really, for some reason, they can never really take out the leadership of Hamas. And that has happened.
So they've seen these people that are in the position now probably never expected ever. To rise to the level of leadership in Hamas that they have now. They've seen all their previous leadership be killed by Israel. They know that Israel is going to keep doing that. If it gives this disavow violence and stay in Gaza, they can remain where they are or safe passage out.
That is the most motivating factor here would be self-preservation on a personal level. But I also do want to point out in their response that they sent to President Trump on this is the on Hamas's response to U.S. President Trump's proposal. This is a statement President Trump put it out on True Social. They say they go through a lot of the stuff before, and it says: as for other issues included in President Trump's proposal concerning the future of the Gaza Strip and then the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, this is tied to a collective national position and in accordance with relevant international laws and resolutions to be discussed within a comprehensive Palestinian national framework in which Hamas will be included.
and will contribute with full responsibility.
So that is one of the hang-ups. That they will have to negotiate out. Hamas is at least on board to start this movement. But remember, they're also iffy and probably having a lot of internal discussion and disagreement. about that key point, Phil.
There are probably those true believers still. That are like, nah, Hamas, we're going to get back to running this one day.
Well, we shouldn't just allow them to disband us and scatter us throughout the Middle East. And of course, tomorrow is the anniversary. Uh it's October 7th tomorrow. We know that things will be uh heated. There will be not just emotionally, you will see security ramped up in a lot of these areas in Israel, probably around Europe, around the country, maybe even around the world.
There may be even more security here, as we know, this is going to be a moment of contention.
So, if they could come up with an agreement tonight. Uh, that could change everything. If you actually see some of these hostages being released in the next 24 hours, uh, maybe you do have that sort of goodwill signal. That brings us to what could be at least a quote-unquote end of the war. And when we say that, look, I understand this is the Middle East.
I understand these are religiously motivated people. These are people that are not going to just, like you said, easily stand down. Um And there will always be French. There will always be the fringe terror groups, not just the Hamas. Uh, you know, as leadership, there will be sure members of those teams.
There will always be. this kind of terror crime that happens in the Middle East. I would you're obviously afraid that there won't be. But If history has told us one thing that It doesn't just go away completely.
Now, there are times of relative peace. You could say there was a large amount of years there. In Israel, where sure there were moments and rockets and those kind of things, but it wasn't an all-out war.
So hopefully we at least can get back. To that, get back to a standard where you feel comfortable as a tourist, you feel comfortable visiting Israel, that they've made Gaza a place where you could visit potentially after a certain amount of time of rebuilding and everything that they could do there. Because we've represented people in those areas, there's Christians in those areas. You know, there were Jewish people in those areas. The only ones that are left right now are those that are being held hostage.
So remember that as well. The only Jewish people in Gaza currently are either uh military or right now or uh The only civilians Are those who are there? as uh as hostages. And look, we'll see also what this looks like. We know that before.
The numbers of hostages that were available to be released, if you will. Uh was not as high as they were expecting. Hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully, the intelligence says that a lot of them are alive, and you'll at least have 20 or so people who can be freed. But we'll see, and we'll keep you updated.
Look, this is our ongoing fight here. You have seen so much of a turn against Israel over the last few weeks, last few months in the mainstream press, in the conservative press. Sphere, that it's obviously put a lot of us, you know, a lot of stress on a lot of us who are supportive. Again, you don't have to be supportive of a government. I understand there are people who support the idea of America, but they don't support President Trump or didn't support Joe Biden.
Of course we'd be critical of a government. But the idea of extinguishing a country and making sure a country doesn't exist is very different. You can disagree with, of course. They're just as partisan there as we are here. As you are, by the way, look at the rest of the world.
Look what's going on in the UK. Look what's going on in Europe. We're all kind of going through this same. moment in time in a lot of these places and let's say the Western world.
Well, and I think what will be very telling is if this goes through, And this entire plan gets implemented. And this is that would be a historic feat. If those people that are going around protesting Israel. Uh at targeting Jews in public. Does that stop?
Or is the mask really pulled off? Is it really. You know what? They weren't really about the Palestinian people. They really were the entire time just wanting the destruction of Israel.
Were they really just targeting Jews? Were they really just supporting Hamas? I think that will tell us a lot. If this doesn't kind of Cool down around the world. I saw, I have to look at what the actress was, and it was an actress I was not that familiar with, but she's a famous actress, and she put up Larry Ellison.
Is purchasing TikTok. She put, here's the new TikTok logo. It was the colors of TikTok, but it was the star of David. As a like, that's all it's going to be now. Controlled media by Jewish people.
That's different. That's a different conversation. It's like you're confusing so many different things. And lumping them all together, we've been preaching that for years and years, but here we are.
Now, with that, phone lines are open. Six lines right now: 1-800-68-430-110. I want to hear from you. Coming up, Cece Hiles can be joining us. We're gonna give you a little bit of update on a case involving the ACLJ that you're gonna like.
You're not gonna wanna miss that.
So, if you want a little break from the Israel content, What's coming up next? We'll circle back around as well, though, in the next half hour, and then we'll be joined by Mike Pompeo to wrap up the show with your calls and comments. Again, phone lines are open for you. And support the work of the ACLJ today if you can. While we're in break, go toaclj.org.
Make a donation, become a champion. Welcome back to Sekulow. Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-3110. CeCe Hiles joining us here, Senior Attorney at the ACLJ, with a bit of an update on another outrageous.
ACLJ case, one of those ones you can't believe is true. Of course, a lot of times these are on a small scale. You think, okay, this is going to be an individual, but of course that affects everyone worldwide, nationwide, at least. And this one just feels unbelievable when you're talking about people of faith. Being treated differently.
You don't want to say the word persecuted because we could think of that as what's going on around the world and in a global sense of what's happening in all over the world for Christians that are being murdered for their faith. We're not talking about that. We are talking about people that are being treated unjustly or being treated differently just because they've decided they want to be, they don't want to talk about their faith.
So I'll let you set this up. Yeah, and you know, here we're going to talk once again about a Bible club in a school, which everyone who's listening would probably say, why are we talking about a Bible club? Of course, Bible clubs can, you know, be set up at school. You can have a Bible club at school. But unfortunately, we still fight this, even though we've gone all the way to the Supreme Court.
And Jay Sekulow, your father, has won this issue multiple times at the Supreme Court level. Of course, you can have a BABA club.
However, in Minnesota, they don't know that.
So we are representing a ninth-grade girl who, in May, and this is what's even more egregious about this. In May, she went to the principal to say that she wanted to start a Bible club. And after he grilled her for a long time of what she was going to discuss, what her club was about, he said, you need to come and talk to me back in September.
So shut her down in May, tells her to come back in September. She comes back in September, and she says that she wants to set up this Bible club, and she also wants to have a see you at the poll, prayer time. Of course, what his response is to see you at the poll is you're too late. Even though he shut her down in May when she was very much on time, you're too late when he tells her to come back in September.
So she doesn't get to do see you at the poll, which is constitutionally protected right that she can do. But on top of that, she's told that she can have a Bible club, but she has to pay for it.
Now, none of the other student clubs have to pay. That doesn't even mean. Yes. Basically, you have to rent the space in the school to have your student club. But there's other clubs.
There's Boy Scouts that meet there. There's Girl Scouts. There's 4-H club. There's a litany of clubs that are renting out a theater. And that's the rub there.
Yes. The principal, instead of classifying it as a student-run group like the secular groups. The principal decided to categorize this Bible study club. As a church instead of a student-run group. Yeah, and they actually have different allocations for like there's A group, B group, C group, D group, and the B group is the student-led groups, but she's not being charged under that, she's not being allowed to operate under that.
She's now moved into a church group, which is treated completely differently. This is a student, ninth-grade student.
So, how is this not just like open and shut, done tomorrow? It is, and here's the thing: we have sent a demand letter, which we always try to do, settle it out of court. We have given them until we give them a week, we've given them until Wednesday to respond. If they do not, we will be filing on Thursday. And we, again, we believe that the courts it will be open and shut because you have the Equal Access Act and the First Amendment that protects this.
Completely.
Well, and it's back to that old from the court case, Des Moines, where it's you don't. Check your, you don't lose your constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate. And here, specifically, it's classic viewpoint discrimination. Yes. You can have a club that's student-run, free of charge.
At our school, use the facilities unless It's a Christian group. Then you have to pay to use the school facilities. Right. If that was across the board, School groups have to pay a small fee to rent the space. That wouldn't be the constitutional violation.
I mean, students may not, and parents may not be happy with that. Right. But you can't say all of these get to just use the facilities. Right. But you, we're going to consider you a church.
Ninth grade student that wants to have a Christian club here. That's why it's so absurd. And honestly, Shocking that it got even this far. To this point, that's right. And exactly what you said, the Equal Access Act.
Was Implemented specifically for that, saying that you cannot treat a club differently just because of its faith. message and in fact if you do that's not neutrality that's hostility and that's not allowed and that's exactly what we're seeing here hostility to a specific message they've shut her down but we will we're ready to take this all the way up i'm hopeful that they really just don't know what they're doing and that our letter will you know get before their school attorney and this will be resolved quickly they definitely don't know what they're doing i mean there's but i understand what you mean that they're not being hostile they are just being dumb uh that they just don't know the law that they don't understand that there is a difference here and of course we can show that to them real quickly the difference is though listen i mean audience wise if you're watching listen this We have CC, we have our entire ACLJ team. This is not Free, we have to uh It sounds laughable when you hear that this is what's going to happen. You're going to charge a ninth grader to run a Bible study or Bible club in her school where all the other clubs don't have to pay some sort of fee.
Sounds ridiculous, but because the fact that we're able to do this and we're able to actually go to court if necessary for this student, or even what we've had to put hours in already, to have attorneys attached to this, to have staff attached to this, to give it airtime. I mean, this is a real, this costs a real money. And that's when we ask for support. We tell people to support the work of the ACLJ. It's because these people cannot do this without us.
Likely, this would have been swept under the rug. No one would have ever known. But because we're able to offer our services for free to these students, to parents, to people who need it, to you, if you're watching right now, that is because people become ACLJ supporters. And this is what's on the screen right now, ACLJ champions, people that give on a monthly basis because we would not be able to do this without you. They would not be able to go to court or even have.
Professional lawyers assign to do this for free. That's exactly right. Legal fees and litigation costs can be absurd. And most of these cases would never go anywhere, and these rights would not be defended, but for our supporters at the ACLJ who allow us to do these cases over and over again. And we need to keep fighting, obviously.
And honestly, a lot of times the bad actors, if they are, have a bias against people of faith, or that is why they're choosing to do what they're doing. Uh they almost bank on the fact. that the person whose rights they're violating Yes. Doesn't have the resources to actually fight it. Right.
Because it is so expensive. And if Wednesday comes and goes, and we're in federal court. That's only happening because the ACLJ can go and be there with this ninth grade student. Absolutely. They can't do that.
Ninth graders around this country are having similar things happen, and they haven't heard about the ACLJ. They don't know it's an option for them to fight back in court, or they think, I'm just on my own. There's no way I can ever afford it. I'll just I just won't have the Bible study. Or I'll just have people over to my house.
That's not how it should be, but unfortunately, that's how a lot of those things naturally play out. Because they don't expect someone like the ACLJ to get involved. But when we do, We use the full force of the ACLJ to go after and protect these students' rights. And If you're just hearing about this for the first time, go to aclj.org slash help. If you or someone you know has had something similar happen, Because the school year is back up and running.
And I like to say that's a constitutional violation season around the country. It's October. That means Christmas programs are starting. Right. So go ahead and go to aclj.org slash help if you or someone you know has had something similar at your school.
Yep, hey, we got a second half hour coming up. Make sure you join us if you don't get us live on your local station. We're broadcasting live each and every day, 12 to 1 p.m. Eastern Time. That is on aclj.org, YouTube channel, however you get us, Rumble.
You can find us always there, and of course, archive later on, however, get your podcast. We're available there as well. Give me a call. We got some lines open at 1-800-68-431-10. Going to talk about this, gonna talk a little more about Israel.
We got a lot more coming up. Mike Pompeo is gonna be joining us.
So stay tuned or find us online at aclj.org. We'll be right back. Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulow. And now your host, Luke.
Logan Secular. Welcome to the second half hour of Secula Will Haynes joining me in studio executive producer here of the show. Mike Pompeo is going to be joining us a little bit later, so stay tuned for that. Of course, we are talking about a few different topics. If you've just tuned in, you may have missed our topic we just did, which is on a case for the ACLJ, our organization here, the American Center for Law and Justice, where cases you think should be settled law, things that we've done.
Kids trying to start Bible clubs in their local schools being told, no, you have to be charged, eighth grader, ninth grader, because you're a church. You're not a student-led Bible club. And of course, we're going to take that to court. And we can't do that without you. And that's why we ask for support because all of that, no one gets charged for that.
These students don't get charged for it. Their parents don't get charged for it. We're able to offer it completely free and have the best of the best. That's because of our team here. And I always want to make sure you know that, not just our media team, which, of course, is the same with this show as well.
The show doesn't happen. You hear ads maybe in your local market that doesn't go to us. You get YouTube ads, the amount of money that is is so minuscule compared to the amount of money it costs to put on this show.
So, no, when you support us, you support the media side and the legal side because both are incredibly important. We have to be able to share the word and also go to court when necessary. Of course, we are also talking about, well, the moment right now. The closest we've been. in two years.
And look, it's two years tomorrow. was the start. of this whole conflict where Hamas brutally murdered A thousand plus people who are just going to music festivals or in a kibbutz. A paragliding in all the things that we saw, the horrible imagery. You believe it's been two years.
of battle since then.
Now, some of it has been the global PR messaging between Israel and Hamas and the lack of support from Israel has been shocking. I wouldn't even say shocking. It's not shocking. Maybe the anti-Semitic rhetoric that has surrounded this, not just people who don't support the government of Israel, anti-Semitic rhetoric that has surrounded this has been extreme. And of course, now we are at the two-year mark just tomorrow, and there is a deal on the table.
That's right. And I think we should hear this from Secretary of State Marco Rubio. He was on, I believe it was Meet the Press yesterday and some of the other Sunday shows, Fox News Sunday, et cetera, talking about this, making the rounds, getting this out there. And here's what he had to say about the negotiations that are starting today. That are about the implementation of the deal, that first phase, which is getting the hostages home.
Let's go ahead and play bite four. No one here can tell you this is 100% guaranteed. We are dealing at the end of the day with Hamas. This is the group that on October 7th, two years ago, came in and basically butchered babies and teenage girls at a music concert and took hostages and did horrific atrocities. That's who we're dealing with here, okay?
We're not dealing with a political movement. We are dealing with killers and savages and terrorists. That's who we're dealing with. That said, what gives you hope here is that at least there now is a framework for how all this can come to an end and those hostages can be released. What gives you hope here is the fact that for the first time in this entire endeavor, you have The United Arab Emirates, you have Qatar, you have Saudi Arabia, you have Turkey, you have Egypt, you have Jordan, you have Indonesia, you have all these countries, the European countries, all lined up behind a plan and putting a tremendous amount of pressure to make it happen.
And President Trump's the one that put that together. And once again, Even as we talked about when this framework came out, Just over a week ago, I believe. I mean, it wasn't very long ago, there was kind of this feeling, it's like, This could never happen. There's no way. And even the Secretary of State, he says, nothing is 100% when you're dealing with Hamas.
But this is the first time we've seen conditions like this. where there is external pressure, not from just the countries that support Israel, like the United States and maybe a handful of European countries that still exist that support Israel, but from those that are more favorable to the Palestinian cause. When you're seeing the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia, Jordan, Indonesia, by the way, largest Muslim population in the world. Oh Coming together and saying this needs to get done. That's the first time.
You could see this real breakthrough.
Now, does it mean that the threat of radical Islam against the Jewish people? Will go away? Of course not. And I don't think anyone would ever think that that is going to be the case out of this. That's thousands of years of history.
But this current battle. with this government that has been established in Gaza. for decades. Could go away and see a more peaceful time. For the state of Israel and for the people that are Palestinian that have had to endure this for so long.
All right, next up, Mike Pompeo is joining us. He knows a little bit about peace in the Middle East as one of the framework founders of the Abraham Accords. We're going to talk about that and so much more coming up in just a moment. Welcome back to Sekulow. Mike Pompeo is joining us right now, Senior Counsel for Global Affairs.
Secretary Pompeo, first question, obviously, the The big news over the weekend, we talked a little about this last week, was that the Plan of potential peace in the Middle East, something that you worked on many years ago.
Now we're not with the foundation of the Abraham Accords, that did give us a relative relief for many years until the Biden administration seems to have kind of unwound it and took apart. What you all had built. But now we have Hamas and Israeli delegations. They're headed to Cairo right now to begin the peace talks. There's been somewhat soft agreements on the release of the hostages, and they're reportedly saying that Hamas is committed, I'd say we put that in quotes, committed to ending the war.
At this point, though, how optimistic are you that that can actually happen and will happen.
Well, call me a skeptic when it comes to Hamas wanting to end the war. It seems unlikely to me. They could end the war very easily. Just hand the hostages over, and this thing ends in 20 minutes. And they've shown no evidence now for coming on the anniversary here.
Just this week, right, of two years. And so maybe they've had a change of heart given all the progress Israel's made and American support for that. Uh I think the devil will prove to be in the details. Perhaps there has been enough pressure. That will convince them to allow these hostages to come home, both those that are alive and the remains of those that are now deceased.
And you can, in fact, put an end to this thing. I think the Israelis would be happy to withdraw to a certain line. That would provide for their security adequately and would ultimately lead to a resolution where there might be some form of governance inside of Gaza that would deliver. Better outcomes for the Gazan people. This would be a fantastic outcome.
I pray that it's so. I think when it comes to Hamas, I will not believe that they're prepared to release those hostages till we get to see them in the embrace of their loved ones. I pray that it happens today, or tomorrow, or the next day. And you hate to be that guy and I feel the same way, which is that They're putting so much, I feel like, not just pressure, I feel like they're putting so much credence in this, like, the word of Hamas right now that it makes me very concerned the way that even media is reporting it. They're like, Hamas has agreed.
It's like, yeah, we've been through this how many times before where they've agreed to these things and it doesn't mean anything. No, that's right. And by the way, when you hear the media say Hamas is agreed, Know this, they are trying to put pressure on Israel. In the same way they've tried to put pressure on Israel to stop For two years now, or almost two years now, they are really messaging that the Israelis are the problem, that the Israelis are somehow the aggressor, and that they're the ones that are continuing this conflict. When you hear the media say, well, Hamas is on board, implicit in that is that the Israelis are not.
And nothing could be further from the truth. I think the entire Israeli population, the entirety of the Israeli leadership, would love nothing more than to see these hostages returned home and, more importantly, see that Hamas had laid down its weapons, had stopped being the resistance, had stopped trying to destroy the country, and simply wanted to be part of a more normal universe. I haven't seen any evidence of that to date, but you know, one always lives in hope. As a diplomat, we did things that seemed unimaginable. Perhaps President Trump has put enough pressure on the region to actually deliver this outcome that this unimaginable outcome can happen too.
I certainly hope so. We see these indirect talks that are going to be taking place over the next few days in Cairo. And we know that the White House envoy Steve Wickoff is going to be there. We know that Jared Kushner will be there. And that what they're supposed to be doing here is working on that first phase.
This may be a little technical, but even just the complexity of indirect talks in Cairo with a terrorist organization and Israel and the Americans there. What does something like that even look like? Yeah. No, that's a great question. I've been part of several of those where you weren't really talking to the person who was the decision maker.
And in this case, it's actually a double bank shot because don't forget that the regime in Iran is going to have its say as well.
So not only is there a mediator between the United States and Hamas, but Hamas has to go check with daddy too, right? They have to go check with the folks who have funded them for so long.
So very complex. Lots of risk that there's translation errors, not just language translation, but conceptual translation issues. And so.
So, these deals get pounded out slowly. They're very complicated. They are, by the way, in this case, very technical as well, because. The timing of these releases matters, the timing of the prisoners that the Israelis will undoubtedly be required to release, the timing of the Iswahi withdrawal, all of those have to be negotiated in great detail so that you can then say, yep, we're going to go do this, and then have a basis upon which to validate whether the parties lived up to their commitments. A very difficult set of conversations, but having worked with Mr.
Kushner closely, with Jared closely for years on this problem set, he's very well positioned to be part of that. And aside from the negotiations, we've seen that President Trump had told, which I don't think I've ever seen this before, where there was Jake Tapper did an interview by text message where he just texted the President and then posted the responses. Very bizarre world we're living in, but that he asked the President if Hamas doesn't agree to this, what will they face? And he said total obliteration.
Now, we know that President Trump doesn't mess around. We saw what happened with Iran. When they would not agree to the situation with their nuclear program that he was trying to push, there were B-2 bombers that were there very quickly, and no one even knew that that was happening. Do you think some of that, obviously because of the relationship between Iran and Hamas, is playing in the background on this? We know that the diplomatic side with a lot of the Gulf states that have been able to start putting pressure, but do you think there's also that complete obliteration type language, knowing what the President has already done, does that factor into some of this pressure as well?
10,000%. That is very much on the minds of every one of those Hamas leaders and their families, knowing they're going to be wiped out. And that is not just a it's not bluster. It's not just someone fantasizing that is a real, credible threat. The Israelis can carry it out.
If President Trump says, well, we tried, couldn't do anything more, over to you, Mr. Prime Minister Netanyahu, you can be sure the Prime Minister Netanyahu will continue to do that and deliver against that. Uh that uh The mission set that President Trump laid out. No doubt that's in their minds. No doubt as they're sitting in Cairo today trying to figure this out.
They are thinking, if I say no or I say yes, but my fate is almost certain. And they're trying to figure out how to get as much as they can before they ultimately have to say yes and then see what happens in the weeks and the days and weeks that follow. And on top of that, many of these leaders of Hamas are third string, fourth string. I mean, the bench wasn't very deep, and many of them never thought people like Yahya Sinwar wouldn't be leading Hamas.
So, I feel like that also has to play into it a little bit as well. It's like, I thought the leadership was untouchable. I never thought I would be here. Yeah. And remember this, too.
That's a really good point. Remember, they never thought they would be there. Moreover, they are all terrorists, make no mistake about it. But some of these are hardened warriors, the ones in Gaza. And some of them have been sitting, eating at the nicest hotels in Doha and don't really know what it's like to be dirty, grimy, and sitting under a pile of rubble, trying to figure out how you're going to take your next breath.
And so they're all trying to save their own skin as well. There is no doubt that we would not be where we are today had President Trump not put all of the pressure on Hamas and Hamas's leadership that we're seeing that they are now experiencing as they sit across the table from these mediators in Cairo today. And we'll see, Secretary Pompeo. Will and I have been talking about this this half hour, which is now we'll see if this deal goes through. Does the temperature come down in terms of the anti-Semitic, anti-Israel rhetoric around the country, around the world, and specifically even in the United States?
Because we're already seeing some people float out there.
Well, even if this deal gets done, that doesn't forgive the last. two years of what they say, you know, quote unquote genocide. And then, of course, you have sort of this weird combination where people have certainly conflated the Israeli government, the Jewish people, the Jewish people in America all together as one what they would consider evil. And it's been like very alarming, like as someone with Jewish background to see this all happening. We've been talked about how Robbie Williams, a star, big star in Europe, he had to cancel a show.
country of Turkey said, we cannot protect this show all because protesters were calling him a Zionist because his Turkish-born wife is Jewish and he has a Hebrew tattoo, which caused a storm of protests. And they said, we can't secure this stadium. And it's supposed to be on October 7th.
So, I mean, that's the kind of reel that's happening, not even inside of the Middle East. Yeah. Look, if this deal comes to fruition, it will definitely take the temperature down. But I think we would all be foolish to think that this would be the end of these challenges of anti-Semitism. They have been with us for an awfully long time.
And there will be many who will never forget what they think was this incredible, what they describe as genocide. I mean, it's silly, but that's how they describe it. They won't forget this happened.
So there will be a lasting tale on this, but it can only reduce risk, right? If peace deal comes through, it can only be the case that there'll be less risk. less anti-Semitism, fewer violent protests here in the United States and around the world. And then there's an opportunity to begin to build in the months and years ahead.
Well, that's good to hear. I'm really glad to hear that from you. I think that gives us a little bit of hope. Thank you so much for joining us, Secretary Pompeo. In the next segment, I want to hear from you.
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Welcome back to Sekulow. Phone lines are open. If you want to be on the air, it's a great time to do it. I know that this is sort of a complicated discussion. A lot of people don't want to uh you know call in and and and be a part of that.
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This conversation all is clouded. by the global anti-Semitic tropes that have been going on, whether that is in the conservative world, whether that is in the liberal world, whether that now just feels like it's everywhere, the streets of major cities. Obviously, on social media and through some major influencers that have certainly caused this.
So much so that we've seen some of the top names. Look, we don't know why specifically. We saw a name like Russell Brand yesterday announcing, hey, I'm taking time off and I don't know if I'm coming back. I don't know if I'm contributing to the conversation anymore. You know, that's a pretty big name for what you consider, I guess, the Christian conservative movement right now, is someone like him who isn't even sure where he belongs in this debate and in this conversation.
And it could be that he's on the other side of this. You know, a lot of his friends are on the other side of this. I'm not saying that he is. I'm just saying this is where it's driving people. And I think in the fallout, obviously the wake of the Charlie Kark assassination, I think a lot of us have had that discussion.
And maybe finally, people are coming to this agreement, going, you know what? Unless I can figure out how I can contribute better to this society and better to this world, I don't even know if my voice should be heard until then. And We've had that discussion even here, which is what that looks like when you are dealing with A threat that is different than we've ever experienced before when it comes to anti-Semitism. We've all experienced it. It's been happening our entire lives.
It's been happening for generations and generations. But it hasn't been this hot in America. It hasn't been this hot around the Western world in our lifetime. And what's fascinating to me, and when we talked about even will the masks come off if something like this does go through? Uh, where, oh no, you aren't just siding with you know what you have been told is a genocide and saying, Oh, I wanna I wanna stop that, obviously.
No, you really just were not a fan of Jewish people and and Israelis and Some of those big conservative influencers you're you're talking about, ones that have been so critical. Over the past months, uh of ba of the Israelis, of Bibi Netanyahu, of Oddly, getting very old trope, nasty anti-Semitism. American Jews. Yeah, that they control everything, like all of the nasty lies that have been told for thousands of years. The idea that Larry Ellison purchased TikTok was like enough for some of them to go on crazy rants about how it's just going to be Jewish-controlled now, just like all the other media.
Well, and my question is: where are their statements about this proposed peace plan? It's been out for more than a week. We know where it's come up to, and some of them I've checked. And I could have missed it, have seen not a peep about this.
Now, if they really did all of a sudden care and think that Israel is committing genocide on the Palestinian people, which they've said over and over and over again, This should be the top thing that they are posting about, talking about on their shows online. No. No, because that's not what's going to bring clicks. That's what's going to bring eyeballs. What we mean eyeballs is for the war to continue.
For it to be uh a constant uh threat because Here's what we know, and it's what even Charlie Kirk put in that letter to Netanyahu. And I've been saying it for years: which is that Israel is really bad at PR. They're a great country, great people. Have you ever been there? It's a wonderful experience.
But they have no idea how to talk to America in terms of public relations. You think if they controlled the media that they would. But of course, they do not. And I think there is stuff that gets lost in translation. There's a way military is handled there very differently than it is in America.
You know, everyone is part of the IDF and becomes an I love that when they were going after a lot of Israeli actors. They're like, former IDF soldier. It's like. Everyone is a former IDF soldier. That's how it works there, unless you have a strong religious exemption or something like that.
Almost everyone, most secular or even mainstream religious people. are members of the military for two years there. Yeah. But of course, they treat them like they're, you know, it's almost like the Trump appointed. Secretary of State.
Right, you know, it's also if you were to say that about an American veteran. Like, why is they so demonized people that serve their country in Israel? that if you were to say former army, it doesn't have the this perceived negative connotation that they're using it for. And they've only done that because they have crafted such an anti-Israel, anti-Jewish narrative everywhere that, oh, they were in the IDF. They must be super evil.
Yeah, war criminals. Let's go to Amy, who's calling in North Carolina on line one. Amy, welcome. Hi. Hello.
Go ahead.
So, I just just question: how do we know that the hostages that are still over there are alive? Sure. I mean, obviously, there's some we know that aren't. But intelligence and what they've been telling us is that some are. And uh Many of us have thought that throughout the years, the last two years, and inevitably, Those have been released that are alive.
They are sadly bargaining chips in this, and though they've been kept in horrible conditions in the photos and videos that we've seen, um, we do believe that there are upwards of 20-ish that are still alive now. Does that mean that's 100% accurate? Of course not. But our hope is that's true. And you know what?
You keep fighting for that hope. That's right. And so the number that they've said is 48 remaining hostages, and about 28 of those are the remains of hostages. They keep those as bargaining chips too, which is so despicable. We saw where they did bait and switch with remains of a hostage.
Yeah. Previous rounds of ceasefire and where they sent the wrong body home, but some families were. Filled with comfort that they could finally lay their child to rest or their family member to rest. And there was that bait and switch that Hamas did. That's why it's hard to trust that when they say, you know, Hamas has agreed to this.
You're like, okay, well, we know what this has looked like before. And we saw bodies being paraded. Remember, we even saw when they did release them, the sort of dog and pony show of having them come out with their military fatigues, of which they did not have because these were citizens that they put in fake military fatigues and had them released like they were POWs. It's really absurd, but our hope is, though, for the caller, that there are a few still alive, and intelligence would say that there is. We had a comment on YouTube from Tony that said: so Trump gave them until Sunday, and now we're going two days past.
Is this just Hamas buying time? Maybe a little bit, but it's not Hamas saying, give us more time to decide. They are going to basically Hamas said we're on board for the most part.
Now they are negotiating the logistics of Of that swap. If they get to it, the logistics of returning the hostages and starting the ceasefire. That's not something you just flip a light switch and go, okay, I'm going to walk up. Here you go. They want to guarantee their protection, as gross as it is, that when they take the hostages to be released, they won't be ambushed or attacked or something of that nature.
So, yes, there is some delay in it, but. uh that deadline, they effectively said we're Mostly in favor of this process. Let's keep moving forward. All right, that's going to do it for today's show. I appreciate you guys tuning in.
I know these subjects are sometimes a little bit. Harder to listen to for an hour because they're very intense and obviously life or death for a lot of people. And we want to continue to pray for our friends in Israel, pray for the people of Gaza. The innocent people? Pray for our members of our team that are in action right now, the way that's at ICLJ Jerusalem, our office is there in Israel.
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