BREAKING: Trump Meeting Changes Everything

Bibi Netanyahu arrives in Washington, D.C. for a meeting with President Trump that could change everything. Keeping you informed and engaged.

Now more than ever. This is Sekulow. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now, your host, Logan Sekulow.

Welcome to Sekulow. It's another Monday. Will we're back here? Will Haynes? Right here.

Right here. I heard someone say: you don't introduce yourselves enough. You do it every day. But then you don't say I I am Will. Oh.

Well, there's only two of us here. Today it's just the two of us. Later on, it won't be, though. That's right. Is it Cece joining us?

Cece's joining us in a second. Yeah, this is Cece. Hi, I will be joining us in a few segments. You want to stay tuned for that. Historic morning as Bibi Nanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, arrives in Washington, D.C.

for what could be. What could be what they're at least teasing out could be the next step towards a final step of a peace agreement. in the Middle East between Israel and what will become Some form of Palestinian government.

Now, there is a laundry list of demands that would have to be made. I will be honest, unless I was last week when they started to leak out. This list, though they seem very helpful, and more hopeful, I have to say, than I have heard the Trump administration or even the state of Israel. Uh And maybe because they know they need to get something done. That these deal points will be made.

And obviously, it does consist of Hamas being completely removed from power. And a temporary government being put in place, as well as all the hostages being released. We have the whole list. I guess we can walk through it. We should do that in the next segment.

Okay, in the next segment, we'll walk through all the lists, but how do you feel about this? How do you feel about potentially? I think a lot of us are ready for the war to be over. Obviously, no one wants war to continue on, but you have to make sure that not only are the demands met, but that. It's sustainable.

And I think that is the big concern: we have had moments of momentary peace. We also are in the middle, once again, as October 7th is just about a week away. Remember, we are in the middle of the Jewish High Holy Days.

So, you know, we just got done with Rosh Hashanah, headed towards Yom Kippur in the next two days.

So, you know what? This is a. Uh another Very, um What could be 10th time in Israel? Because we are headed towards that big anniversary, much like 9/11 was for here, specifically those first maybe 10 years after. October 7th is only a week away at this point.

So, what does it look like? Could this be heading towards the end of the war? I sure hope so for a lot of us, but I do hope that it ends with Israel being successful in the mission that they set out to accomplish and don't just decide. To pack it in.

However, I understand the situation at hand. I actually do trust Bibi Nanyahu and President Trump and the other Arab nations who are talking about coming together. In a coalition. To really Settle things down in the area. And look, outside of Gaza Outside of Hamas.

Uh Pretty quiet Middle East for quite a number of years. A lot of these countries. Are moving forward, even if it's not as forward as we would like. Even a Saudi Arabia, you gotta think of how much they've changed in the last decade. We've seen that in a lot of these other Middle Eastern countries where they want to work with Israel, they want the tourism dollars.

And finally, you're saying that you know, maybe it had to come to this, but money had to drive all of this for a while.

Well, and when you look at what's coming out in some of these statements, you're hearing the Arab countries have told the U.S. they think Hamas will be ready to sign the proposal. You also see that Prime Minister Netanyahu is meeting with President Trump in the White House right now. Israel had not officially signed off on this, but the reports are that they are quote, inching closer to signing on to this. The enthusiasm, as you mentioned, from President Trump and J.D.

Vance and other American leaders over the weekend was even last week during the UN General Assembly saying, I think we're going to have a deal. It felt like a lot of excitement on their end. Like they had this, and this is going to happen. And for many of us, we feel like we've heard this before. How many times are you gonna tell us we got a deal?

And at the end of the day, also, even if Hamas says they're gonna sign it, unlike other people, it's not like you gotta get to the signing table and officially be signed off. With Hamas, you actually have to get to implementation. But we'll go through what's in this. And honestly, if this is pulled off, One of the biggest deals, I think, that's ever happened in modern history. We'll go through that.

Not only does it have to be signed off on, it has to be implemented. And that is uh gonna be time. Give us a call at 1-800-6-84-30-110 Course Support Israel by supporting us at aclj.org. We'll be right back. Hello back to Secula.

Will Haynes joining me in the studio as well? We're gonna take some phone calls. coming up this hour, so give us a call right now, 1-800-68-430-110. Again, this is President Trump. If you missed it, it's currently meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel.

Obviously, a very controversial moment for a lot of people, not necessarily for us, but for those who've been following this war. There they are greeting each other in the White House. If you're watching right now, you're seeing that, of course. You can watch our show, by the way, if you're just listening on YouTube, on aclj.org, however you get your podcast. You can watch a video version of this as well so you can see it, kind of full television style.

But This is happening. Netanyahu is meeting with President Trump. President Trump is saying he believes we have a deal. We're very close to a deal with Israel and with, I guess, what would be considered Hamas or what the remnants are of Hamas. And I think that is maybe one of the takeaways: is that part of this deal.

Includes amnesty for Hamas members who disavow violence and want to stay in Gaza and have safe passage out of the enclave for Hamas members who don't want to commit or who don't commit to nonviolence.

So. They're saying if you're a member of Hamas right now, which again, uh A lot of these are now kind of lower-level people, or people that got, you know, pushed into upper level because of failed up. Yeah, exactly. They may not be committed to the cause. And saying, you know what, if we can get out of this, I'm happy to get out of it.

So. That's a weird one that's in there. But you know what? If it ends the war, I get why President Trump wants to do this. He holds some different views than maybe some people in Israel and some people here.

But you know what? If it. If it's one of the things you have to concede. I'm willing to at least consider it, but let's go through some of the principles of the deal.

Well, I know you got the list in front of you. Yeah. We've got a release of all remaining hostages within 48 hours of a ceasefire and a permanent ceasefire that goes along with that. That would be a very initial sign of whether or not there's good faith on both sides that this is going to get done. Yeah, because that has not.

That has been one of the things many times that gets there. And then, of course, there's been sadly, I mean, there's been disgusting, the bait and switches of the bodies. There's been a lot of things that have happened. You got to always look back at some of the barbaric nature of this whole thing. Remember, there was a time where the family, including the kids.

I sent back and when they checked The caskets that were paraded through town, I find out that those were not the correct bodies that were in them for a while. That's right. And so, a lot of these first ones are just the short term, ending this conflict, but then the second half of the proposal are things that you look forward to in the way to reshape this region.

So, there's a release of a lot of prisoners. A lot of times, these happened with these negotiations. Post-war plan that includes a governing mechanism. In Gaza without Hamas. This will include an international and Arab board with a Palestinian Authority representative and a technocratic government.

Of unaffiliated Palestinians in Gaza. I don't know where they're going to find those unaffiliated Palestinians because many people in Gaza are Hamas by de facto situation there, but Once again, this is a very lofty goal. A security force that would include Palestinians, but also soldiers. from Arab and Muslim countries. A gradual withdrawal from all of Israel, from all of Gaza Strip.

Funding from Arab and Muslim countries.

So, this isn't the United States paying for this. This is partners in the region. That want this, that have been pushing for this, that have backed the Palestinians for a long time. Other Arab countries. Right.

So you think Saudi Arabia, you think Qatar, these countries that have put their support behind the Palestinian cause, so to speak. They're basically saying put your money where your mouth is and form a new administration, fund it, and that helps with the reconstruction and development of Gaza. There will be some involvement of the Palestinian Authority in the new governing mechanism in Gaza. What is the Palestinian Authority at this point?

Well, I mean, it runs the West Bank. It is the governing body. They would then go into Gaza and say we're going to go to the United States. Which Palestinian Authority for a while was in Gaza. And then, when Israel completely occupied Gaza, then withdrew over 20 years ago, they had elections.

They had a choice in Gaza between the Palestinian Authority. And Hamas, and the people of Gaza chose Hamas in that situation.

So I think just because of maybe continuity, they would have some Palestinian Authority representatives. They won't be the full government. It does give a little bit more credibility than I'm comfortable with to the PA at this point because they are not the good guys. My concern with a lot of these people is that it gives a lot of credibility to people that I don't think have earned it. Then you get to the process of disarming Hamas and demilitarizing Gaza, which includes destroying all remaining heavy weapons and tunnels.

And as E, which you already mentioned. I mean, that one, let's just go back to that. The process of disarming Hamas and demilitarizing Gaza, which includes destroying remaining heavy weapons, that's essentially saying we're going to level this. I mean, that's what it kind of sounds like. And that's where it goes back to the Muslim countries and Arab countries surrounding would pay for reconstruction and redevelopment.

So, yeah, you're going to have to wipe it clean of the buildings and the infrastructure because so much of that-the hospitals, the mosques, the schools-are all connected underground by terror tunnels. Yes. And when you see that, we've got to remember again what some of these points actually mean. And that's why maybe I'm a little. A little less hopeful than President Trump is sounding.

Right.

But again, I don't want to be the person who's going to, you know, be sad on this and say this can't happen. It's not going to happen. But as you said, if they weren't able to accomplish this, it would be historic. All right, keep going. All right.

And then we've got no annexation of the West Bank or occupation of parts of Gaza by Israel. An Israeli commitment to not attack Qatar again in the future, which we saw where they took out Hamas' leadership there just about two weeks ago. And then this final one: a future credible path for Palestinian statehood after the Palestinian Authority undergoes significant reforms.

So, once again, It's still giving a lot of credibility, elevation to the Palestinian Authority, which is a failed leadership. Abu Mazin, which is the terrorist name of Mahmoud Abbas, who is the leader, who has not had an election in decades, a billionaire because of all of the money he has scraped from foreign aid that goes to his country, not country, rather, to his political party that governs the West Bank. Not a good guy. And at the same time, I assume those reforms would mean restructuring of the government, the mechanisms. But this gives a lot of, it puts a lot of eggs in the Palestinian Authority basket.

It does. I mean, that's the thing is, I don't want to be someone who is coming in and saying this is, you know. impossible or maybe shouldn't happen. Um I don't know. I'm not involved directly in what's going on in Israel.

I'm not there. Trust me, I've been wanting to get back for a number of years now, and it breaks my heart that I haven't been able to go back. But I'm also concerned about the big ramifications of this. We've seen when Israel has given too much in previous. Uh times.

And how inevitably it leads to something like October 7th, where it leads to a big terrorist attack of their people. Because again, it is very much, as much as there are a lot of Western Muslims, Western people who Who are Uh not these people. There is still a very anti-Israel sentiment. that is within the DNA, the the of of gossip. Uh And some of it is, they've been bred to believe this.

They've been told this in their schools. And it's hard to separate that. I mean, it really is.

So, just an on-paper agreement. Is not as cut and dry as it seems. And that's my big concern. I know that there are probably people like Jeff Balabon, who I'm sure we'll hear from, who are not going to be happy with a lot of the talking points on here.

Now, again, I will point to a President Trump and go: I understand he wants to end the war and maybe has a different kind of vested interest in Israel than maybe I do. Maybe than the Jewish people do. Maybe than Zionist culture does. Maybe you could look at Benjamin Netanyahu saying, okay, he understands there's also. A big changing tide in America that is turning against Israel, including on the right.

And he actually said that. He called it the woke Reich the other day. as you're talking about that there's not much difference between what you hear uh from the woke left and what he was calling the woke right, which was people that are uh Spewing a lot of hatred towards not just Israel. And I think that is where things get wrong. There are commentators, and I can probably go through and name them, who actually are critical of Israel, but are not spending their time stirring up.

uh Jewish hatred and propaganda. But then there's plenty that are. Right.

And ones that are unfortunately very well known, very out there. We've criticized many of their stuff on here before. But once again, I think also that lie, that anti-Semitic trope that gets drugged from history into modern day that, you know, the Jews control everything, including the American government. If that were the case, I'm going to clip that just to be second. Thanks.

I appreciate that. If that were the case, President Trump would never propose something like this. This is not something that Bibi Netanyahu was begging for. This is not the type of plan that the government of Israel was hoping for. There's a lot here that is.

hopeful that for uh something to end Historically, That's where all the concerns are. Is that a possible thing to happen? I don't, yes, Hamas and Israel could agree to this. I don't know how. Th this is ever implemented.

In a real way. In a way that's not very risky, very risky for Israel, very risky for people of whatever be that future Palestinian state may be. I see the comments coming in. I at least am thrilled to hear that a lot of you still are uh you know, supporting Israel in some way or fashion. Because I wasn't sure, maybe you'd just be like, hey, let's get this done.

And look, there are some comments that come in, obviously, on both sides here. There's a lot of people who are not really happy with this. I want you to call in either way. 1-800-684-3110. That's 1-800-684-3101.

We're also going to talk about the persecution of Christians around the world and how it's finally started to bubble up. Uh, in major media, we saw some of that over the weekend, so stay tuned for that. Cece Hil, senior attorney here at the ACLJ, is going to be joining us in the next segment, but right now. I encourage you to support the work of the ACLJ. We've got our offices in Jerusalem.

They need your support. right now. If you feel moved, feel like you need to support what they're doing. This is the time to do it. Go to aclj.org.

All donations go into the same and then it's spread out.

So do aclj.org. Go to support our offices here or around the world. Welcome back to Sekulow. Phone lines are completely jammed. We're gonna do our best to get to as many of those as we can.

Specifically in the back half hour, but keep trying, keep calling. We'll do our best to get to all of them we can. Cece Hiles joining us in studio senior attorney here at the ACLJ. I did want to pivot a little bit. We're going to continue talking about Israel.

And Cece's been to Israel more recently than any of us here, so she can comment as well as we are seeing this maybe historic moment. As Bibi Netanyahu.

Now, I feel like you could have. Probably played this back episodes of this show. over the last year and heard a very similar A thing including talking points, including the big deal points.

Now these. Again, I think they're controversial. And then when I see the comments coming in, a lot of you are not thrilled with some of these plans. I do think we need to lean a little bit on President Trump and lean a little bit on Bibi Netanyahu that they are doing what's best for their people. And hopefully, that is the case.

But it is a bit concerning, some of them, for sure. I understand that. We're going to address those. I did also want to talk about some of the work of the ACLJ. As we have been working on issues involving the persecution of Christians throughout the world, including in Nigeria and other places, for many years, for decades now.

It has been part of really the DNA of the ACLJ, has been our work internationally. As we know, Christian persecution, now, look, we saw what happened over the weekend. in the L D S church where you know you saw you know right here In our country. We saw many people murdered. uh church burnt down, all these horrible things that happened to Christians.

So I don't want now I have to say that it feels like a rising tide that's happening right now. But I think what we can do also is turn to what's happening in other countries and go, we're not there yet, and we got to make sure we don't get there. As Americans, we got to make sure that we don't start treating religious institutions the way that happens in other parts of the world. It's starting to bubble up. On some mainstream news, where you're actually hearing people talk about it.

This is a clip I want to play for you. This is from Bill Maher, real time of Bill Maher. This just happened. He had Nancy Mace on. Again, you may go, Logan, you're playing Bill Maher.

Now, of course, we know Bill Maher has, he said he hasn't moved politically, but the left has moved significantly from him. He has been someone that's been fairly critical of. A lot of, especially the, the, uh, he's been very critical on people who are supporting the the Palestinian situation, the Hamas situation over Israel. He's very pro-Israel. Uh, but he also wants to make sure people are actually noticing what's happening around the world in terms of persecution of people of faith.

Let's hear from Bill Maher. Can't believe I'm saying that, real time with Bill Maher from just over the weekend. The fact that this issue has not gotten on people's radar is pretty amazing. You are in a bubble. And again, I'm not a Christian, but they are systematically killing the Christians in Nigeria.

They've killed over 100,000 since 2009. They've burned 18,000 churches. This is so much more. These are their Islamists, Boko Haram. This is so much more of a genocide attempt than what is going on in Gaza.

They are literally attempting to wipe out the Christian population of an entire country. Where are the kids protesting this? Thank you. Thank you. No one will talk about it, so thank you.

Absolutely. It's Africa, that's why no one's talking about it, and they should be. You can't read about it on mainstream media. It's sad.

So thank you for bringing it up.

Well, because the Jews aren't involved. That's why. It's the Christians and the Muslims who fail. And it's just And Cece, this is an issue that we've talked about here for a long time. If you've watched this show for a long time, you've heard us bring this up.

We fought to get Nigeria listed as a country of particular concern under the first Trump administration. And one of the first. Acts of Secretary of State Blinken under the Biden administration was to take them off that list. But it is because of this persecution. And as you know, you're hearing truth from Bill Maher on this, not someone who's normally like rah-rah for standing up for Christians, but it's the truth, and you're not hearing about it.

And just talk a little bit about that and the work that we do to raise this. Yeah. And first, I'm going to say you're hearing about it if you listen to the ACLJ. You're hearing about it if you go to our website. You're hearing about it if you listen to this radio show because we have talked about it since he says, you know, kind of started in 2009 escalating.

And that's true because since 2009, 12 million Christians have been displaced. But we talk about this constantly. I am at the UN constantly talking about Nigeria because, as far as Christian persecution goes, more Christians are killed for their faith in Nigeria than all. Of the other countries combined. And in fact, This year, in 2025, the first 220 days, there have been over 7,000 Christians killed for their faith.

That is 32. That's an average of 32 Christians killed per day. And there's over 8,000 people that have been abducted. That's an average of 35 people a day abducted.

Now, you think, just like they said, If there are 32 Christians being killed every single day because of their faith. You'd think we'd hear about that. Again, ACLJ talks about it all the time. We point to it all the time. But I'm thrilled that we do now have some mainstream media and people that are paying attention to this because this is a huge concern and it needs to be fixed.

And you're exactly right, Will. We were on it because Nigeria under the last Trump administration was a country of particular concern. And that is from the State Department. It's a designation from the State Department and it's specifically for religious freedom violations.

So if there should be any country in the world that's a CPC, it should be Nigeria. And then there are punishments that come along with that. That's why it's critical that it is a CPC. And again, we won't stop talking about this. And I'm thrilled that other media outlets are picking it up.

Well, it's one of the things, as completely independent media here at the ACLJ, what we do here, our media side, is we are able to bring up stories that are not going to get the attention of the mainstream media but one of the goals is obviously to break through to the mainstream media is to make sure that our clients that everything we're supporting makes it through it's not just on here we can be the constant voice yelling we understand we are going to be uh you know a smaller percentage of people that maybe get their news from some of these mainstream outlets however that's growing that's shifting that's changing which is great however we couldn't do that without your support because we're able to do this we're able to go to court we're able to go to the un we're able to do all of these things take action as well as report a lot of people can't do that so i want to encourage you of course to support the work of the aclj while you're at it but it's true we all live in sort of little bubbles I send Will all the time because I'm very connected in sort of the, I guess you'd say, the Israel-Zionist side of this. I send Will news stories all the time where he's like, this wasn't even on my feed. It's like, yeah, it's not necessarily that you're doing anything to keep it off your feed. It's just you have to get so plugged into such a niche audience that sometimes these things that are big stories or are big portions of stories aren't reported.

Well, even that point, there was that. A madman that ran into a wedding at a country club in Connecticut or New Hampshire, one of the two, and had a shooting. My feed was only headlines of Uh shooting mass shooting at wedding in New Hampshire.

Nowhere in the headlines that I was being fed. Was it that the gunman cried, free Palestine, before committing his murders. And once again, the narrative changing before you, you are being manipulated. Yeah, you do really being manipulated by a lot of people on the right right now when it comes to Israel. Yeah, absolutely.

I think you got to make sure you're staying tuned out.

Now, I'm very happy to report that it looks like a lot of our people are awake to it. I think there's, you know, what I think is good is that you're seeing a lot of the people who have been the most trusted sources. For decades now, including even your senators, those are the ones whose voices are loud. And have been calling out some of this, and at least you are trusting some of these voices you've trusted for years.

Now that being said, obviously, it's the most I've ever seen in my lifetime. where the conservative audience, if you will, uh has not been supportive of Israel. into those last couple months. But you know what? Maybe today things change.

President Trump meets with Benjamin Netanyahu. Hey, we get back. We got a second half hour coming up. Support the work of the ACLJ. I need you to go to ACLJ.org.

Right now, whether that's Cece's incredible work she's doing at the UN, whether we're supporting Christians in Nigeria that are being persecuted for their faith. or what we're doing just around the world. The ACLJ doesn't exist within the borders just of America. We're doing work around the world. Go to ACLJ.org.

Be right back. Keeping you informed and engaged.

Now more than ever. This is Sekulow. And now your host, Logan Seculum. Welcome to the second half hour of Sekulow. Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-1.

3110. Main topic of the day is that Dibi Netanyahu currently meeting with President Trump at the White House. With plans to potentially start the process of signing a peace agreement, which we went through in the first half hour, all of the terms they are pretty intense. They're not necessarily terms we would have necessarily said we agreed with. But you know what?

Like I said, there is a moment where you have to. Lean a little bit to President Trump and lean to Benjamin Yahoo that maybe they know more than we know in these situations.

However, there are certain ones of these that. Obviously, bring some concern. I want to take some phone calls about it. CC stays with us here for this segment. Let's go to Dee, who's calling in Rhode Island on line one.

Dee, welcome to the broadcast. Hi. Yeah. that it was Tony Blair that helped to craft this. This piece.

Treaty. Yeah. Sure, we can look that up. Tony Blair has certainly been a voice of this. There's been even reports that Tony Blair would temporarily.

Kind of run the government for a number of years. I don't necessarily think that's a bad idea. He is an interesting character. He's obviously not with us on a lot of the issues, but in terms of a leadership position, I've actually read his book on leadership. Interesting guy.

Definitely has a lot of thoughts. Definitely a proven track record. Yeah, I don't know if he was necessarily the author, but he has been very involved in this process in many ways. And that has been something that has been floated that someone like him, the former prime minister of the United Kingdom, would be the Kind of transition authority there in Gaza. I mean, if you would take that role as a Westerner, you have a lot of courage and confidence.

But to this point, also, I believe you told the screener, Dee, that this looks to be somewhat of a reward to the Arabs and a two-state solution after the goal, which was that to some degree of October 7th. Actually, the goal was much broader. It was a destruction of Israel, bringing up. That forward. But Cece, I mean, you've reviewed what's in this as well.

You've been to Israel recently. You run our operation, our international operation here from the United States. What are your thoughts on this at first glance? Right, well, and the issue is when we talk about a two-state solution, that always sounds like, oh, yeah, that's a good idea. But here's the problem: it has to be negotiated between the parties.

Other countries can't come in and force this. And what we need to remember is history here. Over and over and over, and I can't say that enough, and over and over again. Every time there has been any attempt to negotiate a peace between the two sides here, Israel and whether it's Gaza, West Bank, it doesn't matter with the Palestinian Authority or Hamas. Every single time, Israel is more than willing to compromise and to agree.

And in fact, you've had agreements multiple times by Israel. Every single time. Whether it, you know, it seems like they're trying to paint the Palestinian Authority as a more mild, more reasonable activity. That's right, absolutely. But you have to remember that the PA has absolutely rejected these peace agreements, these negotiations, time and time and time again.

So I guess I'm a little bit... Leary in that You're not going to get, I think Israel will probably compromise. Israel will come to an agreement, and we will once again see Hamas saying, No, we're not going to agree.

Well, and if you were to look at this agreement from a structured agreement between two rational actors, it starts with ways that you can see good faith effort at the beginning, like releasing all of the hostages in 48 hours and a permanent ceasefire.

Okay, you can understand how your deal is going within two days. That's normally how you would structure with rational actors. And then you get to the harder things. The problem is, as you mentioned, Cece. Um We've seen proposals that were less ambitious than this that fail very quickly because the A non-rational actor, Hamas, isn't really willing to give up their power.

They were presented with the option of Tony Blair. This is some reports, and I can't say these are 100% verifiable, but the reports are that they quote were saying the devil's brother cannot govern Gaza. Of course, calling him just as much of a war criminal and start talking about the war in Iraq and all of that.

So, you know what? Again.

Some of these may be pipe dreams, but we'll see where we can go from there. Phone lines are open at 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-3110. We'll be right back with your calls and comments coming right up. Welcome back to Sekulow.

We will continue to take your phone calls and comments coming up. We also did want to talk a bit about that, Michigan. Horrible church shooting that happened over the weekend. Of course, this is out of LDS church. Mormon church in Michigan.

At least as of now, four dead, eight injured. There's, I believe, many more that have been unaccounted for.

So we'll see where that ends up. You know, it's kind of a blip. in the news i mean obviously it does get it did get coverage um but sadly it's becoming all all too regular. And I think that has become uh Part of our discussion here, which is how much time can you focus on these things when they become so normalized? when attacks on churches and attacks of a place of worship um Schools.

become Uh Daily News. You know, we're used to violent crime in our city, especially if you live in a major metropolitan city. If you turn on your local news, you're used to hearing about a shooting or a murder or killing or gang violence that happens. There's actually an update right now on that Michigan church shooting. Can we just, I mean, you have to tune into it.

Someone just make sure. Gretchen Whitmeer's Michigan governor is talking right now. I'll make sure that we, if there's anything here worth talking about, we should.

Well, and I wanted to bring this up because I think it does connect with what we were talking about with that Bill Maher clip and talking about Nigeria. Is that for My entire life. We've been blessed as Americans. To say that we have the opportunity to speak up for those in other countries that are facing real persecution. That are seeing a genocide in Nigeria against Christians, one of the worst countries for Christian persecution, for any persecution in the world.

And we always had the luxury of saying, we face pushback or criticism, but we don't see real persecution. And my concern with what we've seen in the United States is that. Real persecution? It's not widespread, it's not en masse at this point, but we are starting to see that creep into the United States of America, a place where we enshrine in our First Amendment to the Constitution the right to free speech, the freedom of religion. That these are foundational things that America was built upon.

And when you see what happened at this church, this LDS church in Michigan yesterday, and this is not a theological discussion, this is not trying to, well, you know, whatever here and get into the nitty-gritty of it. What you're looking at. is now another Horrific attack Uh On a place of worship. Where people that share most of your values, I would say at least in the political sphere, you know, these are people that were in their church worshiping on a Sunday. They weren't out protesting, they weren't doing anything, they were in a sanctuary.

And someone decided to drive their truck into their church. opened fire and set it ablaze. They planned this. And this is a person. That there are photos circulating he was a veteran.

Was wearing Trump 2020 shirts. I don't know his direct motive, but here's what I do know. Here's what we've seen uptick in this country over the past. uh ten years. We've seen the government going after people of faith.

And these come from people that were even appointed by Republicans.

So this isn't a left versus right. This is that the government and bureaucrats started targeting people of faith, started trying to send spies into Catholic churches. Trying to go after home school parents. And then that we've started to see creep into Not just government heavy-handedness against people of faith, but we have seen it. start to take place in violent ways.

The first things that we were seeing were firebombing of pregnancy resource centers after the Dobbs decision.

So, violence, no one was there though. Then you start seeing pro-light protesters being beaten on the street. We've represented ones before. We have a new client that we represent out of Colorado. Same thing.

violence against people for expressing their faith. And now it's starting to go not just where people are outspoken about their faith out in public. Whether it be Charlie Kirk, the assassination, which had a lot of faith undertones, to the children that were massacred at their Christian school, both here in Nashville and Minnesota a couple of weeks ago. You're seeing church shootings rise. This isn't a politics issue.

This is a spiritual warfare issue that we're seeing in the United States of America, where people from backgrounds that may be left and right. Are attacking people of faith. And this is really concerning for people like us that fight. For the First Amendment, for religious liberty. We're seeing this rise, and it's so.

evil. And I don't know where we go as a country, but we can't stop speaking out against this and fighting now. I mean, the only positive you can look at is some of the. I guess you'd say the quote-unquote revival that has been happening amongst people and amongst even the celebrities and things like that since some of these horrific events have happened. You've started to see people become much more outspoken about their faith.

So I am hopeful. That there is a turn that can happen here. Obviously, it is dark. It is, it is. The fact they're having to respond to anything like this is very sad.

I mean, I'm looking at the images right now, it is horrific. Governor Whitmer pretty much said, I just asked people to lower the temperature of your rhetoric. I don't really even know what that means. It's not directed to anyone, it's not directed specifically. Are we talking about people that are talking about the attacks?

Who is she even focusing that on? Even asked our producers, and they said, We don't really know. It's just kind of a generic blanket statement. Which has now become the thoughts and prayers of the left. Yeah, lower your rhetoric.

Lower your temperature of your rhetoric. I mean, there's not even really an ascribed motive that I've seen to this individual. Like I said, it appears that he was more right-wing or at least pro-Trump in his rhetoric.

So, this isn't even a political issue at this point. We are seeing the culture of America. Become anti-people of faith.

Now, we're seeing a beautiful moment where you're seeing people that you would never think becoming curious about faith in Christ because in this post-Charlie Kirk assassination world, which is a beautiful thing to see coming out of such a horrific tragedy. But that also makes me concerned that the forces of evil in this world. that hate your faith. that hate people of faith. are going to make it that much harder.

And so the ACLJ won't stop fighting in places like Nigeria. In uh uh we fought in the DRC. We do these things at the UN. We do these things with the US government, but we also fight here at home. And that battle is getting so much more real on the front lines here in America.

America should not be a risk. You shouldn't even be thinking about a risk. of going to church Or taking your kids to a Christian school, or anything like that, or take your kids to school in general. But those are the parts of evil that we should be at the point where we have moved on as a society. In terms of civility, to do this.

But it isn't the case. It actually feels like it gets worse and worse, and it becomes less and less powerful. Uh because we see it so often. 'Cause we see the bloodshed so often and we see oh, you know, you start getting excited when you hear only three people got killed. You know what I mean?

That's horrible to say. But it's just kind of true. Right.

Because you're like, oh, well, three. I mean, we've had some of these where it's 50. I was sitting in church yesterday morning, and this is before I even knew that this happened. But this is the reality of where we're getting. Where I was sitting there, and I never, I mean, Our service is structured in a way that you can just worship and not be thinking about the outside world.

That's the way it should be. And for the first time ever, I was sitting there and I started looking around the room thinking, if something horrific, where am I going? How am I getting my family out of here? And I've never had that thought before. And right after that service, I saw, I looked at my phone and saw these headlines.

And it is just a helpless feeling, but we cannot give up. Yeah, I feel like the first place that started happening to me with my family was movie theaters. There was that shooting that happened in Aurora, Colorado at the Batman screening. And I thought, okay, now every time that a thing that shows up before it goes, make sure you know where your exits are. I am like a hawk because we go to movies a lot.

Like we're a movie-loving family and we go to a lot of events, concerts, you know, live things. We love live entertainment. We love being in a group of communal events, whether that's in Christian music, whether that is in mainstream media, whatever it is. My family loves that. It's one of the things we love.

And what I've noticed is that exact same thing happened to me, which is you go, okay, you almost have to make a plan and then try to put it out of your head so you can even enjoy what's going on in front of you or worship because you go, All I'm thinking about is if there's something happens here, this is where I have to go. This is what I'm going to tell the kids to do. This is where we're going to escape. If this happens to this, what are we going to do? Horrible place to live in.

I mean, it's just mentally.

So we got to figure that out for sure. I mean, I think that is part of what the plan of people that want to attack churches is. Yeah, they want to make you scared. They want to distract you from worshiping. from living out your faith.

And that is something that there is a reality to it that you sometimes cannot escape where your thoughts go because it is horrific what you're seeing. But you also have to fight back against it. And we can't let the culture demonize people of faith to a level where this becomes something that we increasingly see. We see a lot of people talking about this right now in the chat.

So I'm going to encourage you. We got one more segment coming up. I'd love to hear from you. from all walks of life, all places around the country and around the world even. We know people watch around the world.

So I ask you to call in right now. 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-3110 to have your voice heard on the air today. Maybe you got a question, maybe you should have a comment. Maybe you have something you want to share with Will and I or with our audience.

Be a part of the conversation. And you can only do that because we can open up these phone lines, we can open up all of this conversation. Because people like you decide: I'm going to donate and support. We're not funded by major sponsors, we're not funded by the networks that you're watching this on. We often pay to be on those, so they can't tell us what we can say and that can't say.

So be a part of that movement. ACLJ.org, do it. Today we'll be right back with your calls and comments coming up. Welcome back to Sekulow. Phone lines are open for you.

You got four lines open.

So, this is a great time to call in: 1-800-684-3110. Thousands of you are watching. I can see those numbers.

So, if you want to have your voice heard, this is a great time to do it. It really helps us out a lot. Honestly, I love hearing from you. I love taking the tone of the world, especially those who support and watch us here each and every day, which, of course, we do this show if you're brand new. Monday through Friday from noon to 1 p.m.

Eastern time, if you subscribe on YouTube or however you get your podcast, you can watch us live. Or, of course, you can watch us like most of you do, which is later on in the day, which we understand. You can people pick their times, but. We love to do this live so we can have that live interaction. We can see the comments coming in.

It helps us even decide what we get to talk about.

So we're going to go ahead and take some phone calls. And you can call in too. Let's go ahead. Let's start with Kevin, Pennsylvania, who's watching on Salem News Channel. Kevin, go ahead.

Yes, I was actually calling in about your earlier segment there. You were talking about the Israeli meeting with Trump and the prospects for a peace agreement. And I go at it with a kind of a hesitant view that it'll be successful because Hamas isn't going away unless they eliminate them completely. And I fear that they would seep their way back into the government there and continue to cause problem. Kevin, yeah.

I mean, history would say that you're right. I mean, that's sort of the sad reality.

Now, when we had the Abraham Accord set in place just a few years ago, I would have said that you're right about that, and along with a lot of the other countries in the surrounding region, that all changed. And I will say that that change was successful for at least a time. It was successful for a time because honestly, you had President Trump in the administration still pushing it forward. When you start switching to the Biden administration, it's where you start seeing the crumbling. Of the Abraham Accords, which hopefully have stepped up.

Now, that being said, you got to go into this with caution. I agree with you, Kevin. This is not like a group that you can trust here to even say, you know, to how many ceasefires have been broken within hours.

Well, and to Kevin's point as well, the amnesty for Hamas members who disavow violence and want to stay in Gaza. Or safe passage out of the enclave if they don't commit to nonviolence.

So. We know they're liars. We know that they don't hold up their statements they agree to.

So, how do you trust those that say, you know what? I'm done with violence. Let me stay here. And we know that also Hamas isn't the only militant group. The second largest would probably be Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which is, you know, I mean, thousands of fighters, a small army in and of themselves that have an arsenal of rockets and things of that nature.

It's not just Hamas that fires and attacks Israel. Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Actually, it has a lot more leverage to freely move about and fire indiscriminately because they're not also trying, and I put that in quotes very loosely, trying to govern the Gaza Strip like Hamas has to do and run ministries of government and things like that.

So, even if you have this deal that is a permanent ceasefire. and demilitarization Is Palestinian Islam Jihad signing onto this? Like, are they going to be like, oh, yeah, yeah, we're good too? Let's go.

So there's just. It's hard to see. It's hard to match the enthusiasm of the administration on this because it just doesn't seem like something that. Historically or even Maybe biblically, it is something that could ever come about. We know that really.

Peace in Jerusalem only happens at one point if you believe the scriptures.

So. This does seem a far-fetched deal that doesn't really make sense in context to me. Yeah, I mean, look, if they can get it done, they can get it done. And I'm not going to be someone here standing in the way of that being something that should happen. I wanted to see the end of all wars.

No one here really wants to see wars continue on for years and years and years, whether that's in Israel, in Gaza, whether that's in Russia and Ukraine, or all of the wars that are happening around the world, especially the ones the U.S. are at least indirectly or directly involved in or involved in funding. Like I hope there'd be a day when my kids can visit Russia once again. Uh I loved visiting there as a kid. I hope there to be a day sooner when my kids can safely visit Israel.

Like, there's a risk of traveling anywhere. There's a risk of traveling to Chicago. There's a risk of traveling to downtown Nashville. That's going to happen anywhere you go in the world. But that doesn't mean you're also walking into current.

War. that is happening.

So if we can wrap up current war. Great. I'm all for it. I think that there are some of these terms that feel a little far-fetched. But maybe they'll get worked out, and maybe I'm wrong.

You know what? Hopefully I'm wrong. Let's go ahead and take another call. Let's go to Mitchell's Calling Online for watching on the ACLJ app. We don't talk about near enough.

The ACLJ app is a really cool way to experience all the work of the ACLJ. Let's go ahead, though, with Mitchell. Hey guys, thanks for taking the call. I just wanted to know. let's say the deal goes through or doesn't go through, Do you think that could affect the way Trump kind of approaches Putin?

If it goes through, is he gonna kind of be more adamant about peace in Ukraine? If it doesn't go through, do you think that could kind of maybe make him rethink his strategy with Putin? Or how do you think that might Mitchell, I think it's a great question. And honestly, you're already starting to see President Trump kind of shift the way he even talks about Vladimir Putin. Even at the UN, he was saying, you know, I thought we had a good relationship.

We'd be able to get something done. I thought it'd be the easier of the conflicts to get resolved. But he said he's very disappointed in Putin. He's already starting to float things. They're a lot more aggressive and hawkish on the Ukrainian side in ways of helping out, seeming to really kind of turn up the heat on that pressure that he wants Vladimir Putin to come to the table and end this.

So, yeah, I think it also, if there was some sort of deal signed on this. Even if there were short-term Positive reflection on it and the long-term deal could never really be fully implemented, even if you start to see the. Pieces of this deal at the beginning, I think that would give him a lot of momentum. to be able to go in there and show Vladimir Putin be like, listen, I ended that. Tell me that conflict wasn't something that was impossible to end.

You're going to come to the table now and we're going to end this. I think that, yeah, it really could change the way you see him negotiating. And I think also you have to remember with these: President Trump's goal is to keep the United States and our military out of. A boots on the ground military conflict. That's what he ran on?

That's what he has pushed. He's trying to save American lives. By ending these conflicts that could drag us into them.

So, when you look at this deal from that perspective, not as someone from the ACLJ that has studied this issue for a very long time, understand the deep intricacies of it, and are very pro-Israel, you can see how from that perspective, of end it, try to keep America out of it. This is the way you'd go. This is the way if you were that, if that was your ideology and way to move forward, this is the way that I see President Trump could be like, This is what I want to put forward and try to get done. Yeah, if you've scared/slash/rational people that are still running Hamas, and I know that's weird to say, but really you've scared them into being rational. Maybe the people that Hamas thought were untouchable are all dead.

That's what I'm saying.

So, if the people that are remaining are so scared for their lives that they will actually come to the table, Maybe it's possible. Hard to imagine. But maybe it's possible. We're going to continue this discussion coming up this week. We got a lot more to cover, and I'm sure more will come out, more will be discussed.

I want to take a second here. There's 45 seconds left in this show. To ask you. If you enjoyed this show, If you like what we're talking about each and every day, if you like the legal work that we're doing, There's only one way to support this, and that's going to aclj.org. Yeah, your eyeballs help.

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