What Is An Eclipse Of God?

Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith.

Even mainstream media outlets are sounding the alarm. Darkness is descending upon America. Like the eerie gray light of a lunar eclipse, our once Christian nation is now a polyglot of ideas with one focus, a search for a more inclusive deity. To that end, Erwin Lutzer has written The Eclipse of God, a powerhouse of a book detailing the path we've taken into moral oblivion. From the Moody Church in Chicago, this is Running to Win with Dr. Erwin Lutzer, whose clear teaching helps us make it across the finish line. Today, we begin a series of interviews between Pastor Lutzer and Pastor Larry McCarthy.

Together, they'll review the messages you've just heard on Running to Win, taking a deep dive into this book, a book which can be yours. Now, here is Pastor Lutzer. Hi, this is Pastor Lutzer. I'm so glad that you joined us today.

This is a very special program. With me here in the studio is Pastor Larry McCarthy. Pastor McCarthy is pastor of Compassion Ministries here at the Moody Church, and he's going to be interacting with me on a new book I've written entitled The Eclipse of God.

The subtitle is Our Nation's Disastrous Search for a More Inclusive Deity. Welcome, Larry. Well, greetings to you, Pastor Lutzer.

I'm excited about this conversation we're going to have. Thank you for getting the manuscript to me. You know, I've read many of your books, but this one has this historical, philosophical, theological bent to it. But you know what I really enjoyed, and I know that the people who get this book are going to like this part of it too, it has a devotional aspect to it. At the end of it, there's this charge and this challenge with your declarations of dependence and the action steps that need to be taken, so it really has a devotional quality to it as well.

I think we should jump right in. I've got a ton of questions on this first chapter, Life in the Shadows, the Eclipse of God, and the subtitle Searching for Light in Our Darkness. I guess as a threshold question, I want to ask, who is this for? Is this for believers?

Is it for seekers? Is it for atheists? Who's the audience for this book? You know, Larry, you're asking a question that publishers always ask. Who are you writing for? Of course, those of us who do writing, we would like to be able to say, I'm writing for everyone. But to be more specific, I have three purposes in writing this book.

And I know that the audience is going to be primarily Christian. I hope many young people read it, because in a sense, it is also a book on apologetics. And the first purpose is for us to understand the historical and philosophical roots of our darkness. Now, you know an eclipse of God is when there's an eclipse, and of course, we had an eclipse recently. When there is an eclipse, the sun on the other side of the moon is shining just as brightly as ever. But there's darkness, because the moon has come in between the sun and the earth, and we're living at a time when secularism has obscured the light of God.

In fact, I have a verse of scripture that perfectly describes an eclipse. Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened that it cannot save, nor is his ear dull that it cannot hear. But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he does not hear. That's Isaiah, Pastor. That's Isaiah chapter 59. Now Larry, you and I certainly agree that America has been far from perfect, obviously, and always will be imperfect.

But there was a time when there was a Christian consensus in our nation. So, we are drifting into darkness, moral darkness, spiritual darkness, and we're going to be uncovering and speaking a lot about that in the days to come. But I also want us to understand, first of all, the intellectual roots. As a matter of fact, even in this program, we're going to be discussing three philosophers, and I'm going to be referring to chapter two of the book very quickly.

I want to say this to our audience. We're actually covering two chapters of the book in every one of these programs. As a matter of fact, in one of the programs, we're going to be covering three chapters of the book. So that's going to go very, very quickly.

I'll try to keep up. In chapter one, you say that there's a particular demographic, for lack of a better term, that's at risk here. And you're speaking specifically about children.

Can you put a little more – Yes. You know, we're living at a time of darkness, and when you think of what is happening to our children – by the way, that's all traceable even to the philosophers we're going to be speaking about in a few moments, and we'll be explaining that. But obviously, you think of the sexualization of children.

You think, for example, of the darkness, the fact that children are being targeted today in various ways. And while I'm on the topic, to all those who are out there who have lost a child, one of the many reasons I believe that children go to heaven when they die is that it says in Ezekiel – God is speaking to Israel – he says, these children that you have offered to pagan deities, these children are my children. You have borne them to me. So I just say to everyone out there, your children have been borne to God.

They are his, so we need to take care of them. I found that very comforting, and you mentioned that later on in the book, that God is just, but children will be in his presence. You emphasized, though, here in chapter one that we've got to fight differently. In fact, you say it that way. Pastor, are we fighting at all?

Well, that's an interesting question, are we fighting at all. Now, you asked me earlier who the audience was. I want to go back to that question, because I think it answers the question that you've just asked now. First of all, I want people to understand the intellectual roots of the darkness. We're going to be getting to that today. But secondly, I want us also to understand the sovereignty of God. We need to be encouraged. We're living at a time of philosophical, theological, political wrangling.

Oftentimes, the loudest voices are the ones that win the argument, whether it's rational or not. I want people who read this book to say, we have to get back to the God of Scripture. You know, for example, God doesn't wait to see the news. Through his divine hands of providence, he makes the news, if I can put it that way. Three times, we know that Nebuchadnezzar was a very evil king. But three times, it says in the Scripture in Jeremiah, he is my servant. I want people to look beyond the labels politically and in every other way, and I want them to see God.

And this gets to your question. Actually, the third reason to write the book is even clearer, and that is that only a repentant church is able to face the darkness. And I emphasize in this book, we cannot fight this just politically.

I think politics is very important, but it's not all important. Back behind what is happening, we have to understand the spiritual dimension, and we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers. And I want people—and that's why, at the end of every chapter, I have that declaration of dependence that you have talked about and an action step. But Larry— I'm strapped in. I'm ready. You want to talk about chapter two?

We do. Chapter two, three grave diggers who prepared a coffin for God. Thanks for picking up on that, Larry. We have to hurry here. Tell me about the title.

All right. Now, the reason I have that chapter is I want people to understand where the darkness came from, not the only place, of course. But philosophers have a great deal of impact upon culture. You think of Karl Marx, for example. He rules much of the world from his grave. But first of all, I open with Nietzsche. He's the one who talked about the grave diggers who prepared a coffin for God. I'm not quoting him directly.

Of course, I do in the book, but I'm simply paraphrasing. Nietzsche said, don't you hear the noise of the grave diggers who have prepared a grave for God? He said, gods also putrify. And then he goes on from there.

Now, here's the point. He declared, famously, God is dead. Nietzsche, he died, by the way, in the year 1900. Now, he proclaimed that to the world. So, I looked at that and I said to myself, who are these grave diggers he's talking about?

Because he doesn't tell us. But I suspect that there are three. Darrell Bock And you mentioned them by name in the book. So, Marx, Darwin, and Freud. Dr. George Koob That's right. And each one, I give a brief exposition of each one.

Darrell Bock Can you put a little meat on it? I know we gotta hurry, but – Dr. George Koob Yeah. What we need to understand is Karl Marx saw that there was oppression in the world, but the answer that he gave has been a curse to the whole world. Marx believed that if we take away people's oppression, if we do away with God, if we do away with the family, because men oppress their wives, parents oppress their children, they take them to church and God is the ultimate oppressor, okay? So, if we take away oppression, people are gonna live in harmony.

Eventually, they won't need any laws. Well, how's that worked out, Larry? Not very well. Because he misread human nature. There's so much more that I could say, but I do keep my eye on the clock also. We must understand, Marxism is simply this. Man is a reflection of his environment. Change the environment and man will be changed and will live together in harmony. So, the big problem is private property.

We need a revolution to cause chaos and there's more that I need to say, but very quickly, cultural Marxism comes along and says, we can enter America not with a bloody revolution, but incrementally, step by step. So, that philosophy has certainly gotten some traction everywhere and particularly in our culture. Exactly. Tell me how Darwin's influenced. You still see this imprint here as well. Oh, Larry, I never saw this with the clarity with which I see it now until I wrote about this. We have to just cut to the quick here. Darwin said, because of his theory of origins, that the devil has come to us as a baboon who is our grandfather. Now, let's just take a deep breath and think about that for a moment. The baboon is our grandfather because we came up through the animal world.

I'm with you so far. As I frequently said, you know, the monkey in the zoo said, am I my keeper's brother? That's the question. So, if the baboon is our grandfather, if we came up through the animal world, we have no argument at all against euthanasia, abortion, infanticide. We do that to animals, right?

You know, you have a sick dog, an old dog, and you do him a favor and you put him to sleep, as the saying goes. Why can't we do that to people? I want to shout from the housetops, Larry, that if we do not get back to a biblical view of mankind being created uniquely in the image of God, no wonder our society is going where it's going with the devaluation of human life. Because we are just animals. We're more advanced, but we are not different in kind.

We are only different in degree. A Darwinian, whom I quote in the book, said this. Darwinism, he said, it was the universal acid which dissolved Christianity. Marx, he attacked God as ruler. Darwin attacks God as creator. And then the third man I refer to is Freud, who attacks God as lawgiver.

So, this is the darkness that has come upon. And so, we have to hurry and let me talk about Freud very briefly. Freud, of course, very famous, oftentimes vilified in today's world, but still groundbreaking in a very bad way, in my opinion. Freud came up with what we call the pleasure principle. The pleasure principle is that sexual freedom is really the height of pleasure.

It's the height of happiness. So, what we have to do is take away all the restrictions and if we free people sexually, they'll finally be happy and they'll finally be fulfilled. So, you look at our culture today and see exactly where we have been and exactly where we are. And you have all of that sexuality. Of course, it might have happened even without Freud, but he gave impetus to the idea. And so, we're living in a very sexualized culture, aren't we, Larry?

Indeed. So, if these moons that you've presented for us, Marxism and Darwinism and Freud and this philosophy of sexuality, these moons are creating an eclipse on God. With the eclipse that we just experienced not long ago, the moon moves off.

Why haven't these moons moved off, so to speak? Well, thank you, Larry. To all who are listening, I was going to say this later, but I'm going to say it now. In the next session, you and I are going to have together, I'm going to go back to Nietzsche. I'm going to explain how he had a funeral for God and predicted that the cathedrals of Europe would become the tombs of God. And then, most importantly, I'm going to emphasize the fact of where was the church. Why was it that the church in Europe was not able to withstand the hammer blows of culture that came against it? And then, next time, I'm going to be giving three very important lessons for the American Church because you've asked an excellent question. Namely, why was it that the Christianized Europe, if we can talk about it that way, why was it not able to withstand this secularization and it succumbed under it? And next time, I'm going to be talking about those closed cathedrals in Europe, why it is so important for us to emphasize that the church has to be the church.

We might not be able to win the culture war, but we have to stand against it. Before you jump into it, I love this. In chapter 2, you'd say, ideas have consequences and bad ideas have victims. I have to write an amen next to that. I've had a lot of bad ideas that I've made myself a victim many times. Haven't we all?

Yes. What do you have in mind when you put that in? Well, let's look at the consequences of the three philosophers we've just talked about.

What is the result? Two world wars. You have the brutality of Nazism. Next time, I'm going to tell you how Nietzsche influenced Hitler.

Very important, why Hitler kept a copy of Nietzsche next to his bed, why he gave a copy to Mussolini. Let's understand the fact that we're living at a time when we have this darkness and look at the consequences. In Europe, there is no culture war as there is in the United States. The reason is because by and large, with some very wonderful exceptions, Europe has totally succumbed under the weight of secularism. The church was not able to withstand, as I mentioned before, these hammer blows.

What we must do as believers is ask ourselves the question, and as I mentioned, next time we're going to talk about what happens. But with reference to the statement that you quoted here, ideas have consequences and bad ideas have victims. Bad ideas, you can choose a bad idea, you have that freedom of choice, but you cannot choose the consequences of a bad idea.

Because those consequences go on. And what is true of a nation is also true of individuals. And there are a lot of bad ideas out there, some of which we'll continue to talk about as we have these sessions together. There are lots of bad ideas out there and what we have to do is to combat them.

We have to point it out and then always over and over again point to the Scriptures as a means of hope and as a means of encouragement. So that's where the discernment and the enabling come, because we're in a culture that basically says all ideas are welcome. We can put it all out here. Yes, although if I might quote George Orwell in an entirely different context, some ideas are more welcome than other ideas.

So all ideas are equal, but some are more equal than others, right? I want to speak today to all those of you who are listening. I want to share my heart with you. I may be speaking to you today and I want to address your personal darkness because I can't help but think that there are some of you who are listening who are saying to yourself, Pastor Lutzer, you know, you've talked about the darkness of the culture, but what about the darkness that I am experiencing in my own life? Some of you may be going through times of depression, times when you are experiencing a sense of hopelessness, a sense of loss. Come to Jesus. He said, he who follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. Could I encourage you to take him at his word when he says, come on to me all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest? Take time today to spend time with Jesus, to worship him, to give yourself to him, to believe him. Find other believers with whom you can pray because he calls us to be light in the darkness and as has been frequently said very clearly, the darker the night, the more desperately light is needed. I sure hope that you join us next time, but remember this, we're making this resource available for you. Here's what you do.

You go to rtwoffer.com or you can pick up the phone and call us at 1-888-218-9337. Thank you in advance for helping us and I trust that by God's grace and power, you and I shall be successful all the way to the finish line. The title of the book, The Eclipse of God. Pastor Erwin Lutzer, along with Pastor Larry McCarthy, with the first of five interviews on Pastor Lutzer's book, The Eclipse of God, Our Nation's Disastrous Search for a More Inclusive Deity.

Now, a preview of what's ahead next time on Running to Win. And I've written this book to help us to understand how desperately we need to get back to God as he's revealed in the scriptures and not the God that we would prefer. Here's Nietzsche. He feels that he has to declare to the world that God has died.

And he seems to do so reluctantly. It's something like a teenager who has awakened in the middle of the night and told that his parents have died and now he's on his own. He's the one who predicted that the cathedrals of Europe would become the tombs of God.

So go to Europe today. The cathedral in England where John Bunyan attended is a nightclub. What Nietzsche predicted came to pass. Feelings though, feelings aren't fact.

That's right. And yet we're living in a day and age when feelings are believed to be facts. We could describe it this way. If I want to improve my unholy life, I begin by believing in a God who tolerates unholiness without rebuking me. I am willing to be helped but not transformed. I want a God who helps me manage my confusion and emptiness without making me repent of my sin. So that's the God. That's Nietzsche for Americans. We can kind of cherry pick what we want. A lot of grace, plenty of blessings, holy obedience.

And I don't have to believe anything definite. This is the last week we can make the Eclipse of God book available. It's our thank you for your gift of any amount to support Running to Win. Call us at 1-888-218-9337. That's 1-888-218-9337. Online, go to rtwoffer.com. That's rtwoffer.com. Or write to Running to Win, Moody Church, 1635 North LaSalle Boulevard, Chicago, IL 60614. Running to Win is sponsored by the Moody Church.