Welcome to a special edition of Pathway to Victory. And now your host. Dr. Robert Jeffers. Uh Welcome to this special edition of Pathway to Victory.
I'm so glad we have our good friend with us today, Shannon Bream from Fox News. You know, Shannon is the legal correspondent for Fox News. She's the anchor of Fox News Sunday, and she's the author of a number of New York Times best-selling books, including The Women of the Bible Speak. And now, Shannon has decided to let the men speak as well as the women of the Bible in this great new book, Nothing is Impossible with God. Shannon, thank you so much for joining us today.
Pastor, thank you so much for having me. It's a blessing. I love the subtitle of this book, which really captures what it's about: 11 Heroes, One God, Endless Lessons in Overcoming. Shannon, what led you to write a book about overcoming?
Well, goodness, you're such a prolific author. And you know, when you're working on a book, sometimes you have other ideas or other people that you want to include, and you can't get them all into the one book that you're working on. And I've had this collection of these men through the Bible, these stories from the Old and New Testament, that have this theme, this kind of common thread of overcoming. And it really sparks from the story of Gideon, who starts the book. But there's so many stories in the Bible that, you know, we see men and women, and in this case, they're all men in this book, who are facing insurmountable odds, at least by human standards, at least on paper.
And so I just find so much encouragement through each of these stories that, listen, their prayers may not have been answered the way they wanted or they thought, but God always has a better plan. And sometimes he doesn't change your circumstances, but he will walk you through it. And so each of them had their own form of overcoming something, maybe internal, maybe external, but God was always faithful in the process. We've known each other for some years now, and I know in your background, there are some personal challenges you went through that I think may have contributed to your choosing this topic. What's your personal experience with having to overcome?
Yeah, you know, I have shared and I share in this book about having a real struggle physically years ago. I was dealing with excruciating pain and I went from doctor to doctor trying to get a diagnosis. And so I became really discouraged with the medical establishment and not being able to find out what was going on. And you know, if you've lived with physical pain or emotional pain, I mean, it's just completely debilitating and can just drain you and really be a struggle. And for me, it was a day-to-day struggle at that point when I was living in this chronic pain and trying to get a diagnosis and trying to find the right doctor.
And I spent a lot of time in prayer saying, you know, Lord, if you're not going to heal me, just as with Paul with this thorn in the side. And it's interesting to me that there are some biblical scholars and teachers at your level, not mine, but, you know, who really debate what that was. And I've read some accounts that some believe it was an eye issue with Paul, but I certainly don't know the answer. All I know is that when God said to him, you know, my strength is made perfect in your weakness. What Paul said was, okay, then I'll boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me.
And for me, I'd memorize those verses. I knew them. But until I was walking through that valley of this unending, excruciating pain for a couple of years, they became real to me. And it was true that God's strength was made perfect in my weakness. And so I had to overcome a lot of things.
I never thankfully wavered in my faith. I knew God was with me in that process, but I had to overcome a lot of discouragement and depression and fear during that time. And God was just real in that moment. He showed up. You know, I want to drill down on that for just a moment because a lot of people listening to this have experienced unanswered prayers.
And I'm talking about that this Sunday: about what to do when your miracle doesn't come. And one of the things I noted that you wrote in your book is this: God's answer to my chronic illness was ultimately not a physical healing, but the presence of God.
Now, there are some people out there who would see healing, physical healing, as first prize, and the presence of God as a runner-up prize, but you don't view it that way, do you? I don't. And you put that so well because whatever you're walking through, the presence of God can cover every struggle, can cover every valley that you're walking through. It may be physical or financial, emotional, a broken family. I mean, as we know in Ecclesiastes, nothing is new under the sun.
And that's why I find these biblical stories so encouraging because nothing is new or a surprise to God and he will walk through us, walk with us through all of these things.
So yes, what I would have chosen as a human being is to be completely and instantly healed. of this painful condition. But what I ultimately discovered is that it's genetic. And so far, there's not a cure for it. I'm very thankful for the doctor that I believe is an answer to my prayer that the Lord led me to.
So there are treatments and ways to cope with that. But, you know, in my darkest moment when I left the doctor's office after being told there is no cure for this, I just sat in my car sobbing, feeling completely at the end of my rope. And I shared the story about feeling that God spoke to me. I didn't hear him audibly, but it was unmistakable. In my spirit, as I'm praying, and just kind of at the end of anything that I could understand by human standards.
And he said to me, I will be with you. That was unmistakable to me. And so his presence doesn't mean that all of your problems are going to go away, but that he will walk with you through whatever storms that you are facing. I found that to be enormously comforting. And it's been enough for me each step of that physical journey.
And all of us have walked through something really difficult. You're there now or it's coming. But to know that there's this eternal, unshakable presence of God with you, that's the most comforting thing that I can imagine when we just don't know how our prayers are going to be answered. Let me ask you something, Shannon. You know the story of John the Baptist.
He's the one who pointed people to Jesus, announced Jesus was coming, but then he ended up in prison. And he started to doubt. And he sent his followers to go ask Jesus, is he really the Christ, or they ought to be looking for somebody else? Did this experience of yours ever cause you to doubt God? I've gone through periods of doubt in my life.
Did you ever go through that period? And if so, how did you deal with it? Yeah, and I love that you share that because I think people would see this well-established, brilliant pastor, like, how could you have ever had doubts or questions? But I think it's good that we're transparent about that. And yeah, I mean, I grew up in a Christian home, and so I was in church all the time and kind of coasting a little bit, you know, on my parents' faith for a while, saying like, oh, we're always in church and I know all the Bible stories.
And it wasn't until I was in middle school where I thought, okay, this has to actually be a personal commitment for me. I have to believe in Christ as my Savior. I have to accept his salvation and make him Lord of my life. But even after that, you know, the world will throw things at you and it's so many distractions and so many things that will want to make you question your faith. And what I'd say to that is sometimes I just pray like, Lord, meet me where I'm at.
I'm struggling with this. And maybe there are things I'm not going to understand about you in this lifetime.
So give me your assurance and walk me through. Give my little mind the best that it can, have an understanding of you and of this thing, this problem maybe that's so difficult for me to digest.
So he can handle our questions. And all throughout the Bible too, we see people who are almost raising their fists. They're angry with God. He knows our hearts. Nothing's going to be a surprise to him.
And I think he welcomes our questions and our doubts and our conversations with him so that we're really in relationship with him and understand why we believe what we believe. That's so tremendous. You know, I love this book, Nothing is Impossible. And I like the way you've laid out the book. You've divided it into three sections, the areas that people need to learn to overcome.
And the first is overcoming when you don't understand God's plan. On whom do you focus? Who are the characters that best illustrate that principle? Oh, gosh, the first in that trio there is Gideon. And we think about when we meet him, Israel is being oppressed by the Midianites.
They're not in a good place. In fact, he is threshing wheat, which normally you would be doing outside because the wind would help you separate the wheat from the chaff. But it's such a dangerous, oppressive situation. He's hiding out in a damp, dark wine press to do this job, which is not an ideal place. But I love that God meets him in the mundane.
I mean, the work that we're doing, whether it's at home or in the workplace, whatever your daily assignment is. I mean, God can meet you there. And when God addresses Gideon as mighty warrior, you know, you see Gideon actually say to him, Pardon me. I mean, like, no, I think you might have the wrong guy, and kind of have this argument with him. Like, I'm the least in my family.
My family's the least in the clan. Like, you got the wrong guy. And we go on this journey of faith with Gideon step by step. God reassures him and leads him till at the end, Gideon has got such amazing faith. He goes into this battle with only 300 people because God's told him, follow my instructions.
is what I'm going to have for you. And it's an amazing win, a victory, a battle that only God could have won for him. And so I love going on that faith journey with Gideon. I think you see a lot of the same things with Moses too. I mean, he's met with a burning bush in which God calls him to go and redeem the people out of slavery in Egypt.
And again, Moses starts by arguing with God, like, oh no, I'm not the man for this job. And there has to be some reassurance. And we, you know, have hindsight. We think, how could you ever argue with the God of the universe? But don't we do that?
I will say that in my own life. You know, we can have our own bit of resistance. And also in that trio is Peter. And I love focusing on his story because what he had to overcome was his own failure. You know, he was so passionate for Christ.
But at the moment that Christ needed him most, when Jesus was being dragged away to the sham trial and crucified ultimately, Peter did just what he said he would never do, which was deny him. But Jesus didn't sideline him, say you're disqualified. In fact, he redeemed and ministered to him. And of course, we know Peter as one of the early foundations of. the church.
Well, that's great. You know, the other section, second section you talk about in the book is overcoming when you don't understand God's plan.
Sometimes we think we have to understand the whole plan or know the whole plan before we can take that next step. But you talk about what it means to overcome when you don't completely see the whole picture. Who illustrates that best, do you think, in the Bible? I really think Jonah is one of those object lessons that I think about when I was a kid. I just assumed, and I write about this in the book, that it was strictly about he was afraid to go to Nineveh because the Assyrians were brutal.
And I talk about in the book, I almost hesitated to include some of the details of just how awful they were to their enemies.
So it would make sense he would be afraid. But really, when you dig into Jonah's story, there's almost this current of he doesn't think they deserve forgiveness. They don't understand, you know, they don't deserve the goodness and grace and mercy of God that he has received. He runs in the opposite direction. You know the story.
He gets to spend time in the belly of a giant sea creature and eventually goes to Nineveh. And there is this amazing revival there. And I'm not entirely sure Jonah was thrilled about it. I mean, he still struggles with that. And I think it points us to the question of: you know, do we look at others and think they don't deserve the same mercy and forgiveness that we've been given?
And listen, God gives it liberally, and it's for everyone who will come to Him. The final section of the book is something everybody can relate to if they're honest: overcoming when God feels far away. And you've got a lot of great examples of that. Who would be the ultimate example of overcoming when you don't understand God's plan? I think Elijah is a great one.
I mean, what a faithful prophet.
So many miracles he performed. And man, when God asked him to go confront super wicked, evil King Ahab, he had guts. He showed up. He did what he needed to do. But, and listen, he witnessed and was party to some of the biggest miracles we ever see in the Old Testament.
And even on the heels of that, we see him at one point on the run. He may have been bold with King Ahab. He was afraid of Queen Jezebel, and she was a scary person that you should have been afraid of. But he's so discouraged at one point on the run, alone and hungry. And, you know, God meets him where he is.
He provides food for him. He provides encouragement for him. And, you know, Elijah says, I'm the only one left. I mean, he really feels alone in this fight for what is good and what's right and defending God's honor and standing up for that. And God says to him, You're not alone.
There's a remnant. There are thousands of others.
So we're never alone as Christians. God is with us. The Holy Spirit indwells us. But I love that in his story when Elijah felt a little bit lost and afraid. And alone, that God said, you're not alone.
I'm with you, but there are others in this fight, too.
So if you feel discouraged and trying to stand up for your faith at any point, especially in the modern culture, you're not alone. And I think, Shannon, most people are surprised when they hear there was a point in Jesus' life when he felt separated, even abandoned by God. As he hung on the cross, he said, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? I don't understand all of that. I don't understand the Trinity, but I know this.
Jesus felt like God had turned his back on him.
So we don't feel guilty. We shouldn't feel guilty when we feel abandoned by God. We ought to instead just immerse ourselves in the truth that even when we don't feel like it, God promises to be with us. And another great thing about your book, Shannon, Nothing is Impossible, is that every chapter points people to Jesus. No matter the character who's being cited as an illustration, it all points back to Jesus.
And you saved the last chapter for Jesus, the ultimate overcomer. In what sense was Jesus an overcomer?
Well, as you said, he became fully man, fully God at the same time. We see him struggle, even leading up to the crucifixion, but ultimately saying, Not my will, but yours, God, your will be done. And he came here knowing what he was going to experience, but he did it so that there would be permanent victory over death and over sin. And what a blessing! Because we walk through kind of the Old Testament sacrifices that had to be done over and over again until there was that ultimate sacrifice, which was Jesus laying down his life, having that separation from God the Father so that he could take on all of our sin.
And what hope that gives us, the ultimate overcomer over sin and death, which is, you know, we're in this Lenten season for those who celebrate Lent and just leading up to Easter and the resurrection. That is my favorite holiday, if you want to call it a holiday, quote unquote, because it's where all of our faith, all of our hope stems from that moment in history. And what a beautiful thing that we can be so deeply grateful for. Absolutely. Shannon, if you were going to sum up what you hope readers will walk away with, the one truth that they will hang their hat on as a result of reading nothing is impossible, what would that be?
Well, I want them to be encouraged, but I want them to be equipped. Just as when you give a sermon, you want to leave people with things that can help them through. And I think one of the clearest parts, and there are things to gain from each story here, but to me, when Moses is trying to encourage the people, they get the Red Sea in front of them and Pharaoh behind them. He gives kind of this mini sermon that really lays out a plan. He says, don't be afraid.
Stand firm. See the deliverance that's coming from God. Be still, which is the hardest one for me. And he will fight on your behalf. And I think all of those things are true.
So if you equip yourselves with those truths, you can face whatever season you're walking through. Shannon, people watching this or listening to this, we're at a unique point in history right now. And I find many Christians are feeling concerned about the future, worried about the future. They feel like attacks are coming from every direction. What would you say to people who are watching the news every day, the news that you bring to us so well?
What would you say to those who are discouraged or fearful about the future? I get that. We can feel really divided and afraid and chaotic right now. But I think when we have that eternal mindset that reminds us good ultimately comes over all evil, that there will be a point where every tear is wiped away and there is joy and hope. I don't know how people face some of what we're facing in the world today without that hope.
It seems like it would be such a discouraging place, but there are promises. through God's word over and over that when we give our lives to him and accept Christ as our covering for our sin, we will be forever in God's mercy and eternally with him. And there's nothing that's going to separate us from his love. We know that. And so be encouraged, I hope, through that.
You know, Shannon, I've really gotten the chance to Watch you work over the last years, and you are the consummate journalist. You are professional, you are objective, and that means you get criticized from both sides because you may not take a particular viewpoint. Your job is to present the news and let people make up their own minds. But I think our audience would be curious about how you balance your objectivity that you have to have in the news with your personal faith. How do you maintain that balance?
Well, I think for all of us as believers, we want our faith to be the core of who we are and to inform everything that we do personally and professionally.
So for me, it gives me perspective that's really helpful when the world seems overwhelming. And it's the way I equip myself each day to walk into the unknown that we all do. We have no idea what will shake or rattle our day that day. But I think too, when you look around at people that are having difficult conversations and sometimes very heated conversations that we have in the news, if you can look around at each person as created in God's image, he loves everyone, past, present, and future, every human being that will walk the earth. He wants a relationship with them.
They are valued and loved by him. It doesn't mean you compromise on your principles, but at least hopefully you can get to the table and say, I respect this person as a child of God, at least in the image of God. And let me start from that place, knowing he loves them. He wants to walk with them and have a relationship with them. To me, that kind of sets the table for at least being able to have a civilized conversation.
And one of our mutual friends, Professor Robbie George, I always like to quote what he says: go into a conversation with the possibility that you might be wrong about something. And it's a good way to learn that maybe you could see things a little differently. That's good advice. This is a tremendous book. Nothing is impossible with God.
And I would say to all of our viewers or listeners right now, this book would be good anytime. But especially right now, it would be a good individual read, a great group study for Christians who may feel like they're facing insurmountable challenges in the world in which we live. Nothing is impossible with God: 11 heroes, one God, endless lessons in overcoming. Shannon, where can people get the book and how can they connect with Shannon Bream? Listen, on any of the socials, just go to at Shannon Bream.
I'm there. I stop short of TikTok. I feel like I've aged out and it's not, I have to draw the line somewhere. But on all the other traditional formats, you'll find me there. You'll get to hear a lot about Biscuit Bream as well, our brambunctious lab.
But for the books, anywhere that you like to get your books. I'm old school. I like to carry around a hard copy, but I've done the audio version and you can get, you know, if you like to read on your Kindle or some other way. It's out there anywhere you like to get your books. Great.
Well, I hope you'll get a copy of Nothing is Impossible with God by Shannon Gream. Shannon, thanks so much for joining us today. Pastor, thanks for having me. God bless you and all of your hard work to spread the gospel too. Thanks so much.
Thank you for joining us today.
