Affirmative Action Ruling from The Supreme Court

Coming up this week on the Outlaw Lawyer, affirmative action ruling has come down. The attorneys will talk about it. Also, power of attorney versus guardianship and litigation as opposed to negotiation. We'll talk about the difference coming up on this week's edition of the Outlaw Lawyer. in the great state of North Carolina. And folks, it's always about legalese.

We talk about it here on the radio. And if you've got a legal situation you're facing, you can always contact the firm. 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186. The office is conveniently located for you.

Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, Gastonia, and Moorhead City. Gentlemen, welcome into the program. Good to have you on. And certainly we are going to start things off with just general conversation. But how you guys been? Well, Morgan, I've been doing good. I've been practicing the law. Been doing some, been doing some of the law.

How about you, Joseph? Yeah, man, I've been doing law as well. I've been trying to get a lot of law done, basically. Just in general.

Yeah. Spent a whole lot of time law, lawing, sitting down. And, you know, today we've, I think we had, I think we had lawyers in four or five different courtrooms across the state today arguing things for our clients, you know, different types of legal matters.

And then we had the rest of our attorneys in the office drafting, consulting with folks, handling, you know, real estate transactions, business transactions. So everything seems pretty busy. And recessions and interest rates going up and mortgage rates going up.

And, and if what we're seeing in our office is any indication, things really are starting to heat back up and moving along just fine, at least. Did you just end the recession yourself? Did you just do that for America? I think, I think I'm declaring a soft landing. No, no, I think you just did. I think that people will hear that and it'll have a snowball effect.

And we'll just enter a state of prosperity that we've seen before because of your comments. Yeah. You've seen, what do you sound tired, man? You sound tired. It is a, it is the end of the day when we're in the studio. We've had a, we've had a, we've had a day. But no, no, I'm Mike's a little hot today.

So I've backed away pretty far and I'm trying to purpose to talk at a subdued level. So you have a lot of energy though. You're probably doing jumping jacks while we're doing this to get that energy out.

Getting his workout in, getting his workout in. But, but no, I, um, my kids, I don't know if you, if you guys, I know we've talked about this before. My, a lot of my kids are into, uh, baseball cards, just card collecting basketball cards. And so we've had the NBA draft here recently.

We've got, you know, NFL, uh, practices starting rookies reporting, things like that. Um, and so they're, they're very much into rookies and baseball cards and, and, uh, who's your, who's your kid's, uh, professional basketball team? Yeah, that's what they need.

They need one of those. Who do your kids like though? The Hornets? Is that who they like?

Uh, for NBA? Yeah, they, they try, they try to like the Hornets. Can anybody really like the Hornets? Yeah, you can like them. I mean, maybe they don't treat you very well in return, but you can like them. Um, I like them.

Yeah. They're the Hornets, man. So they, they get excited about that, but almost more excited. They're almost more excited to watch though, instead of the actual live sport. I think they were more excited by like the drafts, the first round of the NFL draft, the first round of the NBA draft. And they've really gotten into, do you ever watch these box breaks?

ESPN just had a big story about it. Have you ever watched one of those? Yeah, I've seen them. I've seen them. Yeah.

I don't like spend a lot of time watching them, but I know I'm familiar with them. Yeah. So they've gotten really into that where people, you know, well, you know, somebody will buy an open box of whatever, whatever the card is.

Right. So you got like, I don't know, 26 packs in this box. And all these different people chip in on it. And it's almost like, it's almost like gambling, right? You're, you're hoping you'll pull gambling. I think it's a hundred percent gambling.

My kids glued to it cannot stop watching. Is it like live streams that they're doing? Yeah. Yeah. And so they've tried to, they tried to record their own, right?

You know, we just buy boxes, whatever you get at this Walmart, you know, and they're doing these, they're doing these live box breaks, but they're, they're really into that. So we've been, we've been watching a lot of that. It made me think about though, like the, the, you know, ESPN had a story about it today, yesterday or today. And it made me think about the North Carolina, you know, that sports betting will be legal in North Carolina. Yeah. Yeah. Your kid's gonna be able to open all the boxes they want, then they'll be able to go down and gamble for real.

I mean, it sounds like you remember the, remember the show? And I think it's still on storage wars where they, they go and they bid on the storage bins without knowing what's in them. They can look into them, but they can't dig into them. They pay a lot of money, but then they go back and they go through it and they start adding up the actual value of the items.

And sometimes they find treasure. Sometimes they find trash, but it sounds like the baseball card allotment deal is basically the same thing. Yeah. And I saw there's a couple of card stores in the, in our area and we're down kind of closer to Raleigh. So down in Raleigh, there's a couple of card stores that'll, that'll do this. What's the, what was the number one pick in the NBA draft?

What was his name? Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of people are after his rookie cards or pre-rookie cards or one of one-on-ones, one of 1,000s like purple refractors, orange refractors.

There's all these different cards. And, and yeah. It's pretty good, man. He reminds me a lot of myself, um, athletically, you know, we've got a lot of the same. So is he seven, is he seven, one, seven, two, or seven, six, seven, five, or seven, seven.

It's like set out to, I'll put this to bed right now. I think it's, I think it's seven foot three. A quarter. I think that's what the Spurs announced. Seven eight is what I'm going. Seven foot five is what Wikipedia says. 2.26 meters.

If you're, if you subscribe to that unit of measurement. Hey Joshua, could you imagine going, going back in time and telling yourself like one day you can make a living playing video games and people watching you or opening cards online? Well, we remember, I remember having one of our clubs back in the day. That's what we did. You know, we, we rode our bikes or got dropped off or found our way to our buddy's house to watch them play like whatever Super Nintendo game. Like hopefully you got to play too. Right. But you. You got to get a little bit of time on the sticks, but, uh, it was definitely their game, you know? But, uh, and, and I remember going to like, I remember buying baseball card boxes with buddies and then just watching them open or maybe you open a pack or whatever, but yeah, that could be fun. Well, it's a, it seems, I think some people are making a pretty lucrative, lucrative living off of it so I think I think you bring up a really good point I mean things things have changed and obviously when we get further into the future it'll be even more different but I mean just imagine I mean people are being paid large amounts of money to be social media influencers they're being sponsored people are being discovered on you know YouTube or tick-tock and they're making serious livings by just being out there and representing a product or wearing a product or using a product and people are watching them and because they have so many followers they're able to you know sustain a very good living and it's something that you know 20 years ago we would have laughed at you what we're looking at our phones I don't get it yeah it's a blessing man was as gigantic social media stars ourselves you know we can live this life that we we get so rich off of the show man yeah I'm waiting for those YouTube checks to come rolling in but what are we gonna all this money man but yeah now that not sports betting is legal or will be legal it was it like January I think January technically that's when online she asked your kids man they're probably counting down the days so that I wonder if that's something that I'll like you know I don't know how old you had to beat a place of legal sports but 18 is that what it is I haven't looked at the statute because I just know I'm old enough yeah but uh cuz you can't be 21 somewhere somewhere around there right yeah you can't be can't be 12 or doing it but what I'm gonna let the kids do it man I what I was thinking about that you know this January February March first quarter 2024 we could have our first sports book in North Carolina and I think one of the things they should do is every day they should have like box breaks and they would just make a ton of money yeah yeah I could see that well so what's the deal explain to me the concept of paying for do you pay to like buy like that's the piece I'm missing man I think you're buying action so let's say the box is like I got you 200 cards they have these random ways where they determine what you'll get out of the box for your 50 bucks gotcha gotcha gotcha so you could end up yeah I see it and some of them do that randomly too so you pay your 50 bucks to be in and then it's random what selector you're gonna get so that when they open it you know so I'm jumping on this and it depends on where you live it depends on what game you are playing and what age but again involving real money requiring betters to be 21 or older gambling formats and then it says meanwhile other gambling and gambling adjacent formats such as horse race betting lottery you know they have a lower minimum 18 to 19 range to be able to buy the lottery tickets that kind of thing and depending on where you live so you have to check your local if you're in Maine you can play charity bingo at 16 I see that well we got a couple things to talk about this week I want to talk about the US Supreme Court is slowly kind of releasing opinions from the cases that they've heard this this court session and so a big one dropped not too long ago UNC University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill at Harvard were both being sued over their student admission affirmative action practices and so those were two lawsuits that were merged into one and they were argued before the US Supreme Court and so now we have an opinion a very lengthy lengthy Supreme Court opinion and so me and Joe will spend some time talking about that and then we've got a segment coming up where we're gonna talk about and we've talked about power of attorneys before power of attorneys being the document you create to appoint someone to act on your behalf so power of attorneys versus what happens when you need someone to act on your behalf and you don't have a power of attorney which is a process a legal process known as guardian guardianship so I wanted to spend some time talking about that because I've gotten just this week three or four questions on what happens when you don't have a POA why do you need a POA and how do guardianships work and so I thought that'd be a good a good juxtaposition to discuss juxtaposition I can't say that yeah you got it you're getting there and it's because I'm trying to concentrate so hard and talk at a very level a very turn it up some man you're making me sad you sound good Josh don't worry about it just just hit it you sound like you're in a dark dark place mentally I'm not I'm not and then also I want to talk about this comes up a lot in our day-to-day practice but litigation versus negotiation right litigation is something a lot of people when you're when you're when you're angry you know when you've been wrong when someone's breached a contract and then you're in the right and you want to litigate it litigation can be expensive there's some drawbacks and just kind of talk a little bit about you know litigating versus negotiation so that's kind of organizing the kind of topics I wanted to hit today in our show all right we've got the roadmap we'll start with affirmative action the ruling and the guys will talk about that when we come back the outlaw liars Josh Whittaker and Joe Hamer they're the managing partners Whittaker and Hamer law firm offices conveniently located in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, Gastonia and Moorhead City they are practicing attorneys here in the state of North Carolina if you have a legal situation you are facing and you need your questions answered you can always call the firm eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six that's eight hundred six five nine one one eight six leave your contact information briefly what the calls about an attorney with Whittaker and Hamer will be in touch and as always you can email your questions to the show questions at the outlaw lawyer.com will answer them on a future broadcast we're back right after this welcome back into the outlaw liars your hosts are Josh Whittaker and Joe Hamer managing partners at Whittaker and Hamer law firm again practicing attorneys here in North Carolina offices conveniently located in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, Gastonia and Moorhead City I'm Morgan Patrick consumer advocate each and every week we talk legalese you may have some questions that you are facing you may need some answers you can always call the firm Whittaker and Hamer at eight hundred six five nine one one eight six that's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six and leave your contact information briefly what the calls about and an attorney with Whittaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can always email the show questions at the outlaw lawyer.com and we'll answer them on a future broadcast well we're gonna go affirmative action the ruling is in gentlemen take it away yeah Morgan you know here on the outlaw lawyer we you know me and Joe talk about this a lot how we never intend for this to be political in nature you know a lot of people look at the US Supreme Court kind of a political way right now right conservative justices liberal justices what what what president appointed the justice and so we kind of look at Supreme Court justices in a way I don't think we ever really have in our nation's history and me and Joe try to stay out of that it's not really what we're here to talk about the the court is made up of the justices that are on the court and that's the court that that we have but today well a few days ago in the affirmative action case that I guess everyone's been talking about it's actually the combination of two cases where the folks who brought it have a problem with how certain universities handle their incoming class right how they evaluate applicants with the race being a factor has been a lot of US Supreme Court cases that have allowed what's now called a affirmative action so that you know a student's race a prospective students race can be used in the application process and we've had several cases go to the Supreme Court over the past I don't know 20 30 40 years about that and until recently you could use race right you could use race as a determining factor in a prospective students application to a university so that's kind of how it was until this new opinion came down and so now you can't that's a short segment right now you have a segment man you're not out of the park you still say sad but you did knock it out of the park so the the court found that it was unconstitutional which is you know it's kind of interesting because it wasn't too long ago where the court said it was constitutional but if you look at some of the decisions that that led up to today the grutter decision was one back in I think it was 2003 Sandra Day O'Connor was still in that court and they made a big deal about how at that time back in 2003 they saw fit to continue to allow affirmative action to to stay in place as it comes to college admissions but but again said it shouldn't be permanent and I think back then Justice O'Connor made a comment about maybe another 25 years or so and then you know the read you know then then maybe some progress will have been made and it won't be it won't be needed and so in the in the most recent decision I guess they they didn't even really address that it's more of a you know race just shouldn't play place as much of an issue in that kind of thing that was a great summary man I don't even know what what discussion is even left man well you know it was interesting it was interesting in the decision some of the justices pointed out because what came up a lot was you know maybe this you know affirmative action was getting different students of different races who are maybe in a lower percentile it was giving them the extra push they needed to get into get into college the argument from the other side was hey you're pushing some other worthy students out and you're doing it based on race and there was a lot of Asian Americans who had filed briefs because there was a there was an accusation that Harvard was actually using a race to disallow well-qualified Asian Americans from getting in so they they argued that race was being used two ways right it was using is being used to get some folks in who maybe wouldn't have got in otherwise but it was also being used to keep certain races out and that was that was a big deal for the for a lot of the Supreme Court justices but there were definitely some dissenters but it would seem that at least for now until there's another case in front of the Supreme Court that using race in that manner will no longer be deemed constitutional so that was a big that was a big decision I'm sure it'll be talked about quite a bit but I don't know what you saw my judge you see anything else on that yeah I mean a couple things man you know you talked about everything's politicized right and so you've got you'll you'll have the traditional folks that only see black and white and you'll have the ones that'll that'll champion this for the wrong reasons and the ones that will poo-poo this for the wrong reasons as well I think you nailed it man you know I don't think I can say definitively I don't support racism in any fashion man I can say that confidently I hope you can too Josh and uh and I you know I don't I don't want to see anybody disenfranchised for based on their race you know but I think what you did what kind of led us to this point and you know you you kind of touched on it seeing folks that were that were being unfairly discriminated against and ways that you might not have expected whenever affirmative action was originally thought up and was seen to be a necessary thing and a couple things from the majority's opinion you know John Roberts said nothing in this opinion is going to be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant's discussion of how race may affected their life be it through discrimination or as an inspiration or otherwise so you know they're still gonna be people can still give their own personal experience and you know talk about how it's affected them it's just it's just not going to be they're not gonna tie that to they said they want to tie the impact of that to that students courage and termination and not to that not necessarily just basing it completely on that you know so I think I think that it's it makes it makes sense I can see you can see again you can see the argument both ways like you normally can anyone who's reasonable I think can look at reasonable arguments both ways but yeah like you said man 25 years or so we're a little bit short of that 25 year period but here we are and it's a pretty definitive ruling so I've got a question I mean you're saying it's a definitive ruling are there any are there any other is there any other recourse for the other side here or is this it I mean this is this is a done deal or can they appeal what's what's going on oh yeah there's no there's no appeal this is it for okay yeah you get a u.s. Supreme Court decision the only way you can really take it down is with a you know you get something else in front of the US Supreme Court you know if you I don't know what the fact pattern would even be off cuff off just off the cuff but you'd have to come up with a fact pattern someone who had been wronged in some way and get this issue back before the Supreme Court you know that's and that's kind of what happened with other like big issues that you hear a lot about in the news like a you know abortion or you know anything like that you know you know right to die euthanasia any of these topics that are kind of talked about a lot debated about a lot you know there's there's agencies that try to find people who have been wronged in one way or the other with good fact patterns and try to push those to the Supreme Court so that the justices have a chance to to give a ruling and that's kind of what these cases were there was a there was a nonprofit who I can't remember their name there's a nonprofit who kind of seeks out folks who have been denied admission right to universities and they brought a ton of cases in these two this session just happened to make it to the Supreme Court and they got this ruling which is I'm guessing what the you know what the nonprofit kind of wanted but but either way there were some you know there were some troubling evidence I think the evidence about race being used as a factor to keep or potentially keep Americans of Asian descent out of colleges I think that was pretty damning I think it was telling evidence man yeah I mean that like you said it was that far more difficult requirements and and that's unfair right like then that's not what anybody who drew up affirmative action intended it to be used as and and as an unintended kind of consequence there but uh you know you talk about any kind of recourse for the other side you know Harvard who was one of the universities sued here has come out and since said that you know they're gonna follow the courts they're gonna comply and follow the court's decisions and and they'll be getting together in the weeks and months ahead to figure out how they're gonna preserve their values essentially so you know because diversity is big to them and they and they make you know and and I think anyone can see the benefit of diversity and so I don't think I don't think this ruling necessarily is is should be taken as an affront to the concept of diversity I think it's just at its core it's just about fairness right but I think things have changed a lot you know you can argue you can argue that things maybe haven't changed enough but I think since the original ruling that allowed race to be considered I think you definitely can see a change on college campuses and you can definitely see a change on how people value diversity and so I think there's definitely been changed and so you can argue maybe not enough but I think there has been enough where schools will find a way they won't diverse student populations and so maybe you don't check a box on your application and that that counts as a point or not a point or whatever the their rating scales used to be but they'll still gonna find a way to achieve diversity because that's you know I think that's a pretty common goal across the board yeah I don't think we see diversity go away I don't think that that I don't think that's gonna be like an unforeseen consequence of this ruling I'm with you I think that that's still gonna be I mean and Harvard's come out and said it right like that's still gonna be a primary consideration for them it's one of the essential values that they hold so I think that you'll still see diversity being championed and it'll be a there'll be an effort to keep places diverse but at the same time if you can take away especially with respect to the what the Asian students have gone through you know I think it's it's a good thing to put them on a more level playing field the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm where you can find them managing partners they're also practicing attorneys here in North Carolina offices conveniently located for you in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro few grave arena Gastonia and Morehead City if you have a legal question a legal situation you are facing and you need answers you can always call the firm eight hundred six five nine one one eight six that's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six leave your contact information briefly what that call is about and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the show we'll answer them on a future broadcast questions at the outlaw my com we've got a lot to come on the program so stay tuned we're back right after this the outlaw liars Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners Whitaker and Hamer law firm practicing attorneys here in North Carolina offices for Whitaker and Hamer conveniently located in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro few grave arena Gastonia and in Morehead City I'm Morgan Patrick again consumer advocate we go back and forth on legal topics again you're gonna have situations where maybe you've got a question about something that you're going through you can always contact the law firm by calling eight hundred six five nine one one eight six leave your contact information briefly what the call is about eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and as always email your questions to the show questions at the outlaw lawyer calm and we'll get to those questions on a future broadcast power of attorney versus guardianship guys dive in Josh we're gonna get energy level it's progressively coming up man it is it is it's uh it is I am before we get there that I did want to tell till Morgan we both me and you Joseph we got to spend some time in our Morehead City office that offices is not one that I usually spend a ton of time in just because I live in kind of a Raleigh Garner Pequot area thinking about moving thinking about moving down there oh yeah we're moving man we're getting the air so nice there we got a we got a good hot weekend it was nice to be out there and then that's just a you know that Morehead City you know Emerald Isle Swansboro area it's just a beautiful area of North Carolina it's great man but have you ever been at Clayton before yeah I have once or twice that's a nice office down there too man I'm not tooting our own horn but a top-notch office down there well you know today we're not we're not at we're not in studio with Morgan we're not at at Shady's today Joe's down in the Clayton office remoting in to the studio and I'm I'm down in the Garner office after having spent some time in Raleigh and Garner today and then like I said earlier in the show you know our attorneys were fanned out across the state today some in litigation some in transactions we were down down in Gaston County and in court today Wake County and in the courthouse and you know down in Johnston County so we were we were all over the place in the state and federal court and so just just going to say that wherever you're listening to us from we're on the radio on different stations across North Carolina and and you can download us as a podcast but we're we're really tuned in to North Carolina and and the legal needs of a North Carolinian and so we're always happy to help and in that vein I've gotten a lot of questions this week about power of attorneys and basically what you do in the absence of a power of attorney that's kind of how the question came up for me a lot this week is hey you know my my mom's in a home or you know I've got to undergo surgery I'll be out of action for two or three weeks how do we the business cat is my business keep operating how I'm gonna pay my bills and stuff I'll be I'll be out of it and and Joe we've talked about it several times but a part of any good estate plan is a power of attorney and just by way of review for the people what is a power of attorney that's right my brother we have talked about it a few times but if you didn't you didn't check in to those riveting episodes we're gonna run down for you again so basically what a what a power of attorney accomplishes at its if we're gonna dumb it down to its simplest form as it gives another individual or individuals you can appoint you know alternates and and backups and things of that nature but it's gonna give those people power to act on your behalf as your we call them an attorney in fact or an agent when you're not able to be there in person or if you're you know mentally incompetent or physically unable to represent yourself so that's what it is at its simplest form and then we can go from there and we can do a lot of elaboration on that yeah and you know we do you know we talk about an estate plan and I think when someone talks about estate planning I think about something that's something old people do right myself included earnings I'm putting myself on that bracket but we should but estate planning is not that should be our new tagline estate planning is just not for old people we can put that on my card maybe a shirt but some of the horse too man we're we're seeing a lot of kids right we're seeing a lot of kids going off to college and they're starting to do some some estate planning is we've seen some unfortunate situations where someone goes off to college and god forbid something happens you know parents are still usually heavily involved a lot of times in their kids life even when they go off to college making them doctor's appointments helping them get medical records to one doctor to the other to the school or what have you and there's a laws are different now and and and doctors and medical folks won't talk to you just because you're you're a parent if that if that child is is an adult you know is over 18 so we see a lot of kids now even do some some minor estate planning getting power of attorneys in place but but Joe's right a power of attorney allows someone to act on your behalf and there's all kinds of restrictions and limitations and specifics you can you can leave in there a power of attorney can be very broad it can it can be very limited but most estate plans you're what you're gonna want to have a power of attorney in place so if something happens to you god forbid car accident plane crash you know some some sort of disease or something else requiring medical treatment get rabies I mean anything can happen tetanus come down rabies yeah rabies is like one of the worst ways to die man I don't know if you've ever researched it and looked into it but you don't want to get freaking rabies man that's neither here nor there no no I've only I've only seen I've only seen that Seinfeld where Elaine thinks she's getting rabies that's get out of here when we're done with a show I want you to go look up rabies and and what happens to you and and it won't make you very happy but uh on the topic of you know the POA right so we you talk about it can be broad it can be specific and then another distinction that that you that's in place on these is is you can have you can have a POA that just takes place in the event of your incapacity and so if that's the situation you know there's usually going to be some mechanism to define what incapacity is in that situation and the POA is only going to be effective if you're if you don't have that capacity if you're out of the picture in some way or you can have it where it's just it's there for convenience and someone can just step up and act on your behalf whether or not you're incapacitated you know but that's that's a I think that's a pretty general rundown of of what a POA is and what a POA does which is a good bit different from a guardian right yeah yeah well you know that's a power of attorneys the easy way to handle that situation and so what we've seen I've had a couple of consults here over the past week or two where there is no power of attorney in place and and what happens there is you know you know children are coming in adult children right are coming in and saying hey mom's in a home dad's in a home he's not getting out I need to help him I need to take care of the finances mortgage property sell you know cars whatever it is and they can't do it they don't have a power of attorney in place and then the bad thing about a power of attorneys if you don't have one before you become quote unquote incompetent that means a lot of different things at a lot of different times but you can't handle your own affairs anymore you can't now do a POA you need it done before you need it yeah nobody's gonna no one's gonna just like wink at you and let you do it right like if you get to that point you know it's and it's unfortunate we hear about it all the time we're folks you know you're you're your mom's in the hospital and you go in and they're not gonna let you you know they're gonna if you lack those documents and you don't have the the proper authority you are going to be in a tough spot and same thing if you're dealing with a bank if you're dealing with the personal affairs of somebody if you don't have that and you need to have it you're gonna be looking at a guardianship which is far more cumbersome than the level of work required to go and execute even a relatively simple power of attorney that's gonna be extremely powerful for in terms of what you need it for as opposed to if we're talking about a guardianship we're talking about an involved time-consuming costly legal process yeah the guardianships is a is a legal process whereby you apply to the court to be a guardian right so if you're you know if your mom goes into a home and you've got to handle things for you don't have a POA you can't do it you'd apply to be a guardian and that guardianship proceeding is gonna require some some proof there's some proof burdens you're gonna have to go before a judge there may be other witnesses called they're gonna make sure that you actually need to be a guardian so it's a legal process it doesn't move quick and it's it's no fun from an attorney's perspective there's a lot of fees involved relatives can challenge right yeah so if you have a relative who who doesn't think your mom needs a needs a guardian they can challenge you and you know and it's a POA is very easy a PA in comparison a POA getting a power of attorney in place very cheap very easy and man when you need one you need it if you don't have it it's kind of a pain yeah wouldn't you much rather have the you be able to say this is the person I want to handle these affairs for me as opposed to your least favorite child going to the court and you can't even tell that the court that I don't even like that kid that kid doesn't even watch box breaking videos with me I think you guys bring up a really good point and and again you know people get busy with their lives and we are I think our true nature is we procrastinate on a lot of things and as you grow older you know you're focused on maybe what you're gonna do when you finally do get to retire and you do walk away from the job but you're not thinking about the endgame and you know long-term care and what happens if and you know what about legacy and what about that power of attorney what about having that will people just don't it's it's just not in their wheelhouse and it's almost like you kind of you have to remind them that you know what once you have this taken care of you know there's there's just this this peace of mind knowing that you can move forward but a lot of people just don't do it well it's tough it's a morose subject right like it's it's not the most exciting thing to think about dying and your mortality but if you don't think about it it's about like you know that's it's it's it puts it puts the ones you leave behind in your family and in a tough spot the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm where you can find them just tackling power of attorney and guardianship will have more legal topics coming back on the other side want to remind you that Josh and Joe are managing partners of the firm practicing attorneys here in North Carolina and they put offices pretty much everywhere for your convenience Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Varina Gastonia and Morehead City so if you have a legal situation if you have questions you need answers to you can always call the firm 800-659-1186 that's 800-659-1186 leave your contact info briefly what that calls about an attorney will be in touch with you also you can email your questions to the show questions at the outlawlawyer.com we've got more welcome back in to the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer your host of the managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm practicing attorneys here in North Carolina offices conveniently located for you Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Varina Gastonia and in Morehead City if you've got a legal situation you've got questions again we get it I mean a lot can be going on in your life you might need some answers to those questions you can always call the firm 800-659-1186 that's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what the calls about and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch you can always email your questions to the show questions at the outlaw lawyer.com gentlemen where are we going next well Morgan I thought it might be useful again when we sit down to do this show each week you know we like to talk about things in the news right we did that we did that today we talked about that affirmative action decision that came down but we also like to talk about things that we see in our offices right so we like to we like to talk about you know if somebody comes in for for a consult it's you know I'm always thinking in the back of my head you know if this person has this issue if this person has these questions there's probably a lot of folks listening to us that have similar questions similar issues and you know of course we can't give legal advice over the over the airwaves here but we can kind of you know give people some some information right and that says that's what we try to do we try to be useful you know we want you to know us we want you to remember us if we can ever be of service to you I hope you give us a call but but the goal here is to is to give you information and so I had several consults over the past two weeks where someone came in with a problem usually some kind of breach of contracted a dispute what I would call a civil dispute and so we you know we talked about attorneys fees because that's a real thing right we've talked about that several times on the show how attorneys get paid right you in a car accident attorney might take that take case on a contingency meaning you don't owe them anything if they don't recover for you and they take a portion of your recovery it's called a contingency on the business law side of things contract law civil disputes a lot of times attorneys get paid hourly right that's how most most attorneys get paid for that work and every attorney has differently hourly rate they charge it's kind of all over the map you know you get an attorney right out of law school they might be on the cheaper side you get the attorneys with 20-plus years of experience they might be a little more more expensive but anyway and then you get down all years attorney's fees that's something you have to be aware of and so a lot of people will come in to us and say you know maybe they've got a civil dispute a breach of contract as you know there's hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line and and and you talk to them about the benefits of litigation versus negotiation because sometimes you you you don't have any choice right sometimes the other side if we'll say they owe you you know they owe you a million dollars and they say I don't know anything I'm not giving you anything well there's not much room for negotiation litigation kind of has to happen right Joe you kind of have to sue in that in that situation yeah you know there's a cost is important right and uh for us at least I don't know maybe maybe some attorneys are are gonna try to hard sell you no matter what but I'm always very conscious when I'm sitting down with somebody of you know litigation is gonna cost you a lot a lot of money just because it takes a lot of time it takes a lot of effort energy resources if you're if you're talking about like you said a very experienced knowledgeable reputable attorney you know they're gonna have staff and it just costs money man it's just a timely process and that's just the nature of it and the majority of attorneys that are handling litigation let's take out contingency fees out of the out of the equation the majority of times if you're litigating it you're gonna be paying someone hourly and the time builds up so you're talking about thousands if not tens and thousands of dollars to pursue things and they may not even be you know we have to tell folks all the time and I know I do Josh and I'm sure you do too we have folks who come in and you're gonna litigate and you're gonna have some form of damages right and you talk to somebody about like what's the amount of money that's at issue here and a lot of times it's gonna pale in comparison to what they're gonna spend to litigate the issue and that's just the reality of it yeah and and and that's one of the big things they come in like hey what what are we what are our damages you know what are we looking at and and litigation has stages there's you know your your complaint in your answer there's your pleading stage there's a very can be a very depending on what you know are you in federal court or you in state court what's it over there can be a fairly lengthy discovery process in erogatories requests for admissions depositions and then there's a there's a trial phase but but usually in all courts there's there's off-ramps writers usually court mandated arbitration and district courts mediation and superior courts you know the courts don't want things to go to trial if there's any way to to negotiate mediate arbitrate so there's you know there's all these opportunities to get the parties together and say look we're all spending money you know but but but sometimes you don't have a choice sometimes you're you're dealing with a party who just won't negotiate whether they're right or wrong you know and then you get stuck and you end up going to trial and it's you know there's costs involved but it always I've had I've had consults before people come in and they were like well we we want a pit bull you know we want to we want a pit bull attorney we want to sue we want them to to know pain you know and and and that's just not how a experienced attorney that you want them to know pain yeah legal pain legal pain I want them to feel the most legal pain they can feel and and and sometimes aggressive litigation is the only Avenue the other the opposing party gives you but it's not always the answer you know it's not always the the the smartest most prudent way to go because I've had that conversation too with folks you know throwing you know I like you said Joe when someone sits across the table for me I think about when I was a kid and when you know my I'd grew up in a family that luckily we didn't need it you know hopefully you you know you don't need an attorney a lot right you most people you need an attorney to help you close on the house state plan but you know if there's divorce or criminal charges or you know a state administration you know things happen where you need attorney but hopefully you don't need an attorney a lot you know just in your normal everyday life but I remember my parents having to go to an attorney and attorneys fees were no small thing for for my family growing up and so I try to treat everybody that I meet with the same way and be very honest about fees be very honest about what things cost and make sure that those things are necessary you know we're not me and Joe we're not used car salesman so we're not trying to get you into a not trying to get you into a litigation you know matter when you don't have to be but you know there's there's always other not always but a lot of times there's other ways to approach problems and and that was really kind of my point today we talk about this litigation versus negotiation yeah we're always gonna try to do it in the most cost-effective way you know that's the thing you're if you're our client we're counseling you yes it's a business for us but at the same time part of our job is to is to help you handle this and you know obviously we're gonna represent your interest to the to the best of our ability but we're also gonna try to do that in the most cost-effective way possible that's a big goal for us here well and and as you guys said I mean you talk about the fees it's not like it's gonna be a big surprise you're gonna talk numbers and you're here to help I mean that's what you guys I mean you're in this business to help people that's why I'm doing I don't know about Josh I think personally that's why I'm here yeah I think it's why a lot of attorneys get into it you know I think a lot of attorneys you know want want to help you know that's that's one of the reasons they get into it and you know we get a lot of satisfaction out of that because I think we help a lot of folks and you know we're in a lot of different communities and we've gotten to meet a lot of people help a lot of people help a lot of businesses and that's certainly right up there and and you know our goal is always you know that's that's the number one that's the number one thing you come in to meet with us we're gonna try our best to help you we're gonna try our best to be an advocate for you a counselor for you and you know to be on your side and to to help you with whatever situation you you brought to us and we don't know if you come into the office and you meet with Josh if he's gonna have the Barry White music playing he's gonna have that voice going oh he's gonna be doing that he is and he's gonna be sad he's gonna have eyeshadow on these things for coming to visit me look look he's just got it going man the next time the next time we sit back down I'll be I'll be 100% no I love it man you got you got the vibe going today listen I don't love it you're making me sad man you're making me sad I'm sad now we'll be right back on e or radio no this is the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm managing partners there at the firm practicing attorneys here in North Carolina and again offices conveniently located Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Verina Gastonia and Moorhead City if you've got a legal situation you're facing and you need some answers to some questions you can always call the firm 800-659-1186 that's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what that call is about and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can always email us here at the program questions at the outlaw lawyer calm will answer those questions on a future broadcast we're back to wrap it up right after this the outlawed liars Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners Whitaker and Hamer law firm practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina offices located Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Verina Gastonia and Moorhead City I'm Morgan Patrick consumer advocate each and every week we go back and forth on the legal topics and you're gonna have some questions about maybe a situation that you have and you need some answers you can always call the firm 800-659-1186 that's 800-659-1186 you can email your questions to the show questions at the outlaw lawyer calm just leave your contact information briefly what that call or email is about and an attorney will be in touch and again if you email us we'll answer the question on a future show obviously we'll leave your name out of it it will be anonymous but again the legal topics do fly on this show we are up against the clock guys we'll wrap this baby up but again I thought some very healthy discussions affirmative action ruling we've talked about that power of attorney and guardianship we've talked about it and also litigation versus negotiation yeah I think you know Cassandra's like you say Morgan Cassandra's on assignment she couldn't be with us this week but Joe is sitting it's two shows in a row where we've really stayed on topic and talked about legal things and wait a minute you're blaming us being off topic on Cassandra that's really not right yeah it's her fault it's definitely her fault man we're always trying to stay on topic and she's jumping in I know just driving us right into the ditch I don't get it yeah it makes me yeah well hopefully we'll have her we'll have her back before too long but I should tell you guys I I am coming off of a cold so that might have something that makes sense man I don't know that makes it one of those colds that makes you clinically depressed it's not one of those it's just just the sinuses they they get usually such a ray of sunshine man you're usually like you speak and I feel like I'm watching the movie that movie trolls with my kids yeah I was thinking remember mr. clean he would always kind of shine when he was on ah yeah I think of I think of Josh I just think of that shining light like a shiny man yeah I could see like the Sun kind of like the Sun you know you mentioned you mentioned a your and my littlest is is afraid of this this bothers me there's only reason I'm bringing it up this bothers me he's a he's afraid of Winnie the Pooh because of that horror movie they made yeah Winnie the Pooh blood and honey yeah yeah so you know I grew up I love Winnie the Pooh right I grew up I love watching you know what more relaxing and calming childish kid appropriate thing could you think of and then he saw one of the commercials on YouTube watching something else and so he is terrified of Winnie the Pooh all these old care all these cartoon characters are gradually coming into the public domain so we're gonna see a lot like Mickey Mouse is gonna be out here murdering people soon man hey watch it kid better get ready for that you know Mickey Mouse but you know it'll be just like Winnie the Pooh's crappy horror movie wait well I never Walt Disney online too for you Joe Walt Disney on their legal department go ahead and they don't South Park didn't they you know I would love to see like some new Tom and Jerry some new Bugs Bunny and some of these newer like Popeye you never see Popeye anymore no you don't kids my kids are worse off for not knowing who Popeye is man well I always wondered back you know when you know the voices the animated the voice characters when they would pass away how do you duplicate that well now we've got AI so I think you know maybe maybe they can do it now but I can remember distinctly when Bugs Bunny when the voice passed away and he voiced so many characters for Warner Brothers and you know it just you know it just wasn't the same but now they can probably just enter in his voice into AI and they they've got a full library yes I'll who was it James Earl Jones James Earl Jones jr. whose does it s who does Darth Vader right yes yeah yeah yeah so he signed an agreement and had a bunch of his you know Darth Vader will talk forever long after he's gone now because he signed some sort of deal I read to allow his voice to be a odd I don't know what the proper term is that's good I think you just coined it whatever that is the term yeah a odd or AE artificially enhanced so we'll have Darth Vader from now on forever same voice good stuff guys great show outlaw liars another one in the books Josh Whitaker Joe Hamer your host managing partners Whitaker and Hamer law firm again practicing attorneys here in North Carolina if you've got a legal situation you're facing you'd always call the firm 800-659-1186 that's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what the calls about and an attorney will be in touch you can also drop by the offices Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro if you crave arena Gastonia and now in Morehead City email your questions to the show will answer them on a future broadcast questions at the outlaw lawyer calm for Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer I'm Morgan Patrick we'll see you on the radio next week now while you're assisted by an attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina some of the guests appearing on the show may be licensed North Carolina attorneys discussion of the show is meant to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice legal advice can only be rendered once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live had the opportunity to discuss the facts of your case with you the attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law in North Carolina and how these laws affect the average North Carolinian if you have any questions about the content of the show contact us directly