Arbery Verdict, Maxwell Trial begins and Roe Vs Wade by way of Mississippi

This week on the Outlaw Lawyer, Joe and I discuss the Arbery verdict, the Maxwell trials just started, and will Roe v. Wade be overturned? And now, Outlaw Lawyer. The Outlaw Lawyer's on the air. Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer are your hosts. Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm is where you can find them. Managing partners there, 46 combined years experience between these two and offices. Well, everywhere.

Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Varina, and Gastonia. They are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. And each and every week, we get into legal topics. It can be an intense discussion. It can be a fun discussion. We get off on some topics, some tangents.

That's a lot of fun. But we want to remind you, too, that we understand that there are a lot of legal situations that you might be facing. If you have questions, you can certainly get in touch with Whitaker and Hamer. 800-659-1186. 800-659-1186. Just leave your name, contact information, a little bit about what you're going through, and an attorney will be back in touch with you. If you got a question you'd like to have answered on the program, future program, just email it to us.

Questions at theoutlawlawyer.com. I'm Morgan Patrick, consumer advocate. We welcome in the guys, Josh and Joe. Guys, how was your week? Morgan, it was a good week. It was a good Thanksgiving week. I have no complaints. Joseph, how was your Thanksgiving?

Hey, Josh. My Thanksgiving was fantastic. Very nice break. Very well-needed break. Ate a lot of food. Watched a lot of sports. Did a lot of sitting.

It was great, man. Joe, are you worried about the new variant? As much as you've had COVID, is that Omicron variant, is that scaring you? It's not really scaring me. I used to do a lot of COVID research, and I was real into keeping up on the cutting edge of all the COVID news and what was going on. And then I got COVID, and I feel like I'm still in that window where I'm okay right now, where I'm probably, I've got some built-in immunity.

So I think I've got at least 30 more days before I've got to get back into really being concerned. Now, Joe, you've had it twice, correct? I've had it a couple, speculatively. I've had a confirmed case once.

The whole family had it back a couple of Octobers ago, and we were in close quarters. And it's hard to say, man. It's a weird disease. But from what I can tell with this new variant, very mild symptoms thus far. It seems to be the case. And again, things can change, and there's so little we understand. I think the assumption has to be that it is everywhere probably now.

I know there's been some travel being stopped, but I'm assuming that it's everywhere. And I think it is super transmissible, but it seems like milder symptoms is what the early word is. So hopefully that will be the case.

It'd be nice, man, if it was super duper mild, and then everybody could just get it, and it would be super duper mild, and maybe we'd get to some level of herd immunity because of that. Yeah, that's got to be around the corner. That's what I keep resting on. At some point here, we're all going to have had it.

But anyway, I don't know. But I was going to tell you guys, so my Thanksgiving was fine. Pretty normal average Thanksgiving. No crazy high or low on Thanksgiving, but the Friday after, that was the Carolina State game. And as you guys know, that was a beautiful game. Which game? Which game?

Carolina State. Did you see that one? Yes, I saw it. Everyone saw it. I caught the last few minutes of it.

I just caught the last three or so minutes of it and kept waiting for State to state it up. Thank God they didn't, man. What a beautiful thing to see happen. Couldn't happen to a better group. We got our season tickets back this year, and so we've been winning every game, and they didn't lose a game at home.

So every game we saw was a win. It was a really great season. You guys had a great year. Yeah.

No complaints. The Wake Forest loss hurt us and Mississippi State, but the kids, this great group of kids, they played their butts off. But yeah, I was going to tell you guys, that State Carolina game, we were there, right? Sold out, great atmosphere. People stood.

There was no sitting down like everybody, even old people like us. We stood the whole game like we were students. And it was great, but there were two minutes to go. State was down, what, 10 points.

ESPN had given Carolina 99.99% chance to win. I was courageously the DD for our group. So I had left the stadium to our parking spot to get the truck ready, warm it up. It was very cold. It was warm in everybody's seats. I started hearing the crowd go nuts because we scored.

I was like, oh, well, we're still out of it. And then I heard them cheer and figure out it was the onside kick. And so I had to make my way back into the stadium, which they didn't want to let me in. The crew there, I guess they don't, after halftime, you can't leave and come back.

They frown upon that, but apparently you are a good negotiator. I tell you what, I had to use all my lawyer negotiation skills to get back in and finally convinced them to let me back in and got to see our final touchdown and then us hold the Tar Heels. But it was pandemonium. That's one of the most exciting games I think I've seen at state, state football anyway. I'm proud of you for getting back in. I guess I'm more of a state fan than I am of a lot of teams, but not a huge state fan, but that was a super enjoyable game to watch. And then as a Duke basketball fan, transition into later in the night, you had Duke and Gonzaga playing in Vegas, very big game.

Was not overly optimistic for Duke's chances and they pulled that game out and a very good night of sports for me in general with the Duke win coupled with the Carolina loss. Also got to take the kids to the old Polar Express train, just a chock full type of day, man. It's a lot of action. Yeah, not a lot of action on the Polar Express train necessarily, but it was a lot to do.

Very cold, like you said, very cold. I was going to say, how was the hot chocolate, the hot cocoa? How was that?

I'll tell you, that was the highlight. They had cookies as well. I'm not going to lie.

A lot of love to the folks putting on the Polar Express at the North Carolina Transportation Museum. But cookies were a little hard. I'm not going to lie.

A little bit hard. I ate several. You know, when my kids are eating them, I'm always watching them like, you done with that? So I got a few extra that way. But I'll tell you, the hot cocoa was very much on point and we've got beautiful commemorative mugs.

And I can't complain, man. All in all, very nice day and just a nice break in general. Hey, Joe, where did you say that was at? That was in Spencer, North Carolina. It's like a two hour, 15 minute drive.

Oh, wow. It's a long drive. It is pretty long drive. And then, you know, we did the train and then it was running behind. So we and there's nowhere to go. You're just outside. So we're outside wandering around. And we got the very young child that doesn't, you know, about one and a half years old, just kind of wandering, being frozen, not wanting to be held, kind of screaming. I'm making it sound worse than it was. Fantastic. It sounds terrible at the end of the day.

We finally when we got on the train, man, it's warm. You get to eat the cookies and the cocoa and you sing and there's entertainment. So your kids are probably not the right age for Josh, but.

Good if you have another one for some reason. I was going to ask you guys to I saw my kids were showing me like a YouTube video where a bunch of I guess they're celebrity. I don't know. They are too young for me, but I guess some celebrities of some sort were kind of going and telling like, hey, this was the best Christmas present I ever got.

It was actually a little fun to watch. So I was going to ask you guys. We're a little bit older generation than than the folks my kids kind of look up to that were on this video. But I was going to ask you and Morgan, what was the best Christmas present you ever got as a kid?

I'll go first, since it's not going to be digital of any kind. But I remember back when I was probably six or seven, I got the complete set of the Johnny West action figures from Mark's Toys. I was I was telling I was telling Josh in show prep right before we taped this show that I went online and just looked on eBay and that full set.

Now, I think I think it was twenty five dollars total win. And these are large, like, you know, almost 10 inch tall action figures with horses and all the gear. And it was four action figures, four horses, all the gear. So you could you know, you could have different setups. And if you if you ever played Army or anything like that, but it was Cowboys and Indians, but it was Johnny West, Custer, Geronimo and then a fourth that I can't quite remember the name. But I mean, it was like twenty five bucks for that set back then.

And now on eBay, it's about eight hundred dollars. But I mean, you spent hours with those action figures when I was a kid. So that that would be my favorite. Man, I had good I had really good Christmases.

And so it's hard to isolate one. You know, Christmas is a great time of year. My parents always made it very special. But I'd say the most memorable the most memorable Christmas gift I ever got was it would have been around 1996. So I would have been about 10 at the time. And the Nintendo 64, I was around the time the 64 came out.

And I remember I vividly remember waking up and hearing like noises coming from the living room. My dad was in there just playing it, having having the time of his life. And so but yeah, that's that's the one that really sticks out as far as I mean, that was what you couldn't get him at the time. I remember it was very difficult to get. I'd won a one for a long time.

I had a friend that had it. I'd go to his house and he'd let me play it like a little bit. And I was real geeked up when I got that. You know, I was thinking about that because my best gift was was sixth grade. It was a regular Nintendo. I did not think I was going to get one. It was my wildest dreams. I would have got a Nintendo that year and I got one and it was it was the best. I really think that was the peak. Like no one will get me for the rest of my life.

I'll never get a present that compares with how much I wanted and didn't expect a regular eight bit original Nintendo back. You know, there's a there's a new Christmas movie out that literally that's the that's the premise of it. I started watching that. It's only HBO Max and I started watching it.

I couldn't hang in there, though, man. It's got Neil Patrick Harris, one of your all time favorite actors. But you know what this made me think of? What was up with that kid? Like it was Christmas. You got a Nintendo 64, right? I got a Nintendo. Like what was up with that kid that just got a Nintendo when they came out? It wasn't a birthday. It wasn't Christmas. They just like their parents just got him a Nintendo for no reason.

And they just had it. Like what was up with that kid? Because that was I think that kid's in jail now. I think that kid I think that kid's gone down the wrong path. And I hate that kid. I hated him. I like I'm not I'm not even actually the kid that I'm referring to. Super nice guy.

I think he's actually really successful. But I'm with you, man. I didn't. What's up with that kid? Yeah. Yeah. Josh, I think I think someone in charge, someone in, you know, like I think someone needs to look like. How does that how does that happen? Because that blew my mind as a kid.

Like you just got a Nintendo like it's not, you know. But anyway. Well, today we do have some legal topics to talk about. We've we've talked about some of these before, so we've touched on these. But since our last show, the Arbery verdict came down in a very highly covered case. And we want to talk about that judgment. The Giselle Maxwell trial actually starts today on our recording day. But we want to touch on that again. I got some coverage.

I guess it started yesterday. So it's we got a day or two of trial to kind of look at. And then today, the day of recording for us, the Supreme Court's going to finally hear the Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. The abortion case is getting a lot of coverage. So we want to kind of take a look at that. And then I want to reveal the next pod in our movie, our legal movie tournament challenge.

So a lot to hit today. The outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Hamer law firm. They're the managing partners there. Forty six combined years experience between these two.

And again, offices, Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia. And they are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. If you have a legal question of your own and need some answers, give the firm a call. Eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six.

That's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six. Leave your name, brief message and contact information. And an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch with you. If you've got a question you like answered on a future program, email it to us. Questions at the outlaw lawyer dot com. And you can always check out the Web site, the outlaw lawyer dot com.

We're back after this. Welcome back into the outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, your host, Whitaker Hamer law firm offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia. They are the managing partners there. And again, practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. I'm Morgan Patrick, consumer advocate. And each and every week we get into legal topics. We have a little fun along the way.

But a lot of this gets very, very serious. And if you're in a situation where you need some legal advice, you can always call the firm. Eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six.

That's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six. You can also email your questions to the show. Questions at the outlaw lawyer dot com. We'll use them and try to answer them for you on a future show.

And always, when you got any questions at all, just go to the Web site, the outlaw lawyer dot com. All right, guys. Well, we've kind of been stirring the pot on a number of these these trials that are going on. I know you guys want to catch everybody up. Yeah, Morgan.

And before we jump into that, I want to remind everybody you do a good job keeping everybody reminded of this. But me and Joe, we are practicing attorneys in the state of North Carolina. We are only licensed in the state of North Carolina. A lot of the things we talk about are happening outside of North Carolina. So we really are just on the sidelines and just kind of, you know, some of the things that we've learned in our practice, you know, and how to look at legal cases, how to evaluate the facts, things we know about jury trials. We kind of try to bring that to the table when we discuss it to hopefully give a somewhat unique perspective, one that you might not be able to get, you know, on CNN or Fox News or the AP or the BBC. So trying to bring that that to the table when we we discuss these things. But like like Morgan said, if you do have a legal issue, if you have something you want the firm, the law firm of Whitaker and Hamer to look at, do give us a call.

Do shoot us an email. That is how we make our living. We don't make our living off our time here with Morgan.

But I always want to reinforce that. But one one trial that we have talked about once or twice, it was going. I think our last time in the recording studio, Morgan, we were waiting for the jury to come back with a verdict. And so now we have our verdict. That jury did come and and find the defendants guilty. But, Joe, remind us what was going on in this one.

Yes. So you've got the you got the the Arbery case where you basically had three individuals. You know, we talked about these facts, so we won't get into the details too heavily. But basically, you had a gentleman, Ahmaud Arbery. He was he was going for a run basically through an area. And he was spotted by these individuals. And there had been some burglaries in the area, apparently. And so these guys, basically, they got weapons and essentially followed him, cornered him, stopped him, confronted him. And there was an altercation. And ultimately, they, you know, Arbery was shot and killed.

And so, again, there's a lot more nuance to it than that. But, you know, we we talked about it extensively a couple of times now. And we discussed our prediction that, you know, all of these individuals would be and should be convicted. And and that was what happened.

You know, our 100 percent prediction rate on calling things like this is still intact. Yeah, there was a bunch of stuff going on with this one. I thought it was a good complimentary. I don't I didn't see anybody nationally kind of pick up on this that I saw, but I thought it was a good complement to the Rittenhouse trial, which we, of course, spent a lot of time talking about. But this this self-defense, you know, Rittenhouse had claimed self-defense was charged with with murder. Everybody knows how that ended up.

And I think we talked about it at the time. There's a lot of discussion and opinions on whether Mr. Rittenhouse should have been where he was with the weapon that he had. There's an argument that he was asking for it. The other side is he he he was asked to be there and he was helping to protect life and property. And in either opinion, I can be swayed on there.

There's a lot to discuss there. But I think what, you know, in that trial, it wasn't illegal for him to be there. He wasn't doing anything illegal. And in the end, he wasn't the jury. And that trial said, hey, you know, he wasn't the aggressor. He could, in fact, claim self-defense. And he ended up being found not guilty. And in this trial, we've got our defendants who are also claiming kind of self-defense. They've been charged with the murder of Mr. Arbery.

And their claim was, you know, it was a citizen's arrest under a law that was standing in Georgia. And it turned and then they were no longer you know, they weren't the aggressors. They they killed him in self-defense. And we didn't buy that here on the show. And the jury didn't buy that either. You can't be the aggressor. Murder results. And then you claim self-defense. So this was kind of I kind of look at this as the opposite of the Rittenhouse trial, because this is a clear case where the people who started the incident committed the crime and self-defense was not should not have been available to him in the jury.

Spent a couple of days, asked some good questions, came. I mean, this was a good I think in both of these trials, Rittenhouse and Arbery. Then they complement each other well. Good juries. And the judges did a decent job. They got instructed well. And they both got to the right verdict.

I completely agree. And I think that people should feel pretty good about both results in light of the evidence that was presented. Like you said, Josh, it's all about who was the aggressor in these situations. And, you know, Rittenhouse, you can make arguments about, you know, why is he there with a weapon? But if you look at the evidence, it's clear, you know, he wasn't actively pursuing anybody with this weapon. You know, the evidence actually showed that he was chased.

He was pursued. He actually brandished his weapon several times at people and didn't pull the trigger because, you know, that all speaks to the fact that he wasn't out there aggressively trying to kill anybody. He was he was simply trying to defend himself. And, you know, the fact that he was there, like you said, Josh, not doing it, not breaking any laws, not doing anything illegal. And there's nothing to indicate that he actively pursued anybody and and and was the aggressor in any any manner. Whereas in this in the Arbery trial, you've got the exact opposite situation where these individuals literally got in a vehicle and pursued Mr. Arbery. Again, stopped him, cornered him, brandished weapons at him. You know, they they testified that he never brandished a weapon at them.

He never threatened them. And I think it couldn't be more crystal clear that this was the absolute right result. And everybody should feel really good about it. Mr. Arbery should not be deceased. He should be alive.

His loss of life is a is a tragedy. And the ones that are responsible are behind bars. I know we won't have time to get into it here, but those defendants in the Arbery trial who have have been sentenced, I don't I didn't see what they got.

I'm assuming it's life or a couple of life sentences, depending on how it was charged. But they've got some federal you know, there's some federal hate crime laws. And then so they're they're also going to be tried in federal court.

I remember February or or March, but that always brings up an interesting double jeopardy question, which we don't have to delve too deeply here, but they have been found guilty of murder just justifiably. I mean, they they're guilty. And so they've got life sentences. And now they're going to go on these these federal charges that have a similar punishment associated with them. But they've already been found guilty of the underlying murder that's going to be the basis of the federal charges. So you'll I think I think since this case was so highly followed by the by the media, I think you're going to see some discussion on on double jeopardy on these state charges and federal charges. It's not double jeopardy, but this always starts a pretty interesting conversation.

Yeah. And and speaking of interesting conversations, another kind of interesting nuance that's developed from this. And this is very recently coming out. But actually, it looks like the the you know, the prosecutor, the original prosecutor in this case was actually indicted. And this kind of highlights some some aspects that you don't you don't like to see.

But unfortunately, I think it's it's more common than we would like to admit. And that's just prosecutorial misconduct where you've got, you know, prosecutors potentially doing things that are unethical. Pulling strings behind the scenes, things like that. And this prosecutor has actually been indicted on multiple charges that are all related to allegations about her actions.

When she was the initial prosecutor that was presented with this crime and essentially try to do a lot of things to to protect the defendants that she knew and had personal relationships with. And that's something you don't see a lot. It's pretty rare to see a grand jury indict a prosecutor for any kind of misuse of authority. But but that's something that everybody should be alarmed by and you should want to see in those cases. So it's an unfortunate reality, I think, that we that probably takes place more often than than we'd like to admit. And it's just interesting to see it being dealt with here.

The outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker, Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm, again, practicing attorneys here in the state of North Carolina and managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro and Fuquay-Varina, as well as Gastonia now. And if you've got a legal question of your own and it is perplexing you, you can get some answers. You can call eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six.

That's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six. Leave your name, contact information. A little bit about what you have a question about. And an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm will be back in touch with you. You can also email a question to the show. We'll use it on a future program. Questions at the outlaw lawyer dot com.

And you can always go to the website, the outlaw lawyer dot com. Get more information there. Guys, I know it's going to be a busy day today. We've got the Maxwell trial you guys are going to get into next. Yeah.

Yeah. We got a couple of things just starting this week. So the Maxwell trial is underway. We want to look at some of the evidence that's come out and then our Supreme Court is going to spend some time on this on the abortion issues. That's good.

All right, folks, that's coming up next. You're listening to the outlaw lawyers. The outlaw lawyers on the air, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, your host, Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm is where you can find them during the week. The managing partners there.

Forty six combined years experience between these two. And they have offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia. And a reminder, they are practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina. We get into legal topics each and every week. You may have questions of your own. You can always get in touch with the firm. Eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six.

That's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six. Leave your name and contact information. A little bit about what you have questions about. And an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be back in touch with you shortly. Questions at the outlaw lawyer dot com is the best way to get questions to the program.

We'll use those in upcoming episodes. And please go visit the website, the outlaw lawyer dot com. Guys, I know you've got a couple of cases you want to get into and I give you the floor. Morgan, so to two big cases have kind of gotten underway this week and they're going to have big ramifications.

One more important than the other. The first one I wanted to look at was the criminal the federal criminal trial of Jelaine Maxwell. And Joe, we've spent some time on this one. I've been more I think I told you last week I've been more interested in the way the media is covering it. You know, we talked about some conspiracy theories out there that just wouldn't get a lot of coverage because of some of the big name folks who who are going to be pointed out and kind of get some negative attention in this thing. And so there's this conspiracy theory that the major media outlets won't cover it quite the same fashion that we've seen other things. And we pointed out last week that it's a federal trial. So that's different. So cameras aren't allowed.

So it can't be you can't get it streamed. You won't be seeing any live action shots of it. You'll see those painted stills because this is this is federal court. And so but anyway, I kind of looked yesterday. I think yesterday. Correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, but I think yesterday was the first day of the trial. Is that right?

Yeah, I think it was the twenty ninth actually was the start. And so it's appeared it's it's definitely not front and center. You know, the the variant, the corona variant seems to be getting most of the coverage. And of course, the market has not had a good couple of days. That seems to be the the big topics that are getting. I think we had a school shooting here recently, too, in Michigan. So that seems to be the top headlines.

But you have to look for the major. I still see AP's doing a good job. The BBC, because Prince Andrew's name is involved, the BBC is covering it, but they really only care about Prince Andrew, it seems like. But like the New York, you know, non-traditional outlets that don't have a lot of maybe mainstream credibility. So like the New York Post isn't known for its journalism integrity, but they seem to be really covering it. But but again, it's not getting as much coverage as I as I thought it would.

Yeah. And it's it is a little strange. And we try not to veer into conspiracy territory, but far less coverage than than you would think for something that is this.

This is really this terrible and the shocking and that encompasses potentially encompasses at least allegedly so many public figures and people of note in society. And I think I think you said part of the reason that you don't see as much of it is the fact, like you said, it's it is a federal case. So you don't have you don't have the same level of access to the courtroom. So it's kind of hard to to have the same intrigue that you would have if everyone could kind of actively follow along in real time with every single thing that's happening. You've got to have the stills.

You've got to have the secondhand account. So I think that that probably does play somewhat of a factor. But I'm with you, Josh. You'd still expect to hear a lot more about it than what we've heard thus far. Yeah, I think if you're not if you're not a practicing attorney, if you if you as an attorney have not spent time in federal court and state court, I don't think that I would have ever before before that. I don't think I would have ever really understood all the big, big differences between, you know, a criminal trial in state court and a criminal trial in federal court. But they are very different animals. You know, the judges are treated very different. You've got similar but different evidence, you know, evidence or rules, just a lot of big differences. And in that accessibility, I really think that is, you know, one of the big reasons you see, like you said, Joe, that if you're not streaming live, it's hard to give it the same coverage as if you just have, you know, one correspondent sitting in the trial just taking notes and painting pictures.

You know, it's just a different level. But still, I feel like we should be hearing a little bit more about it. There was a couple I saw all the main news outlets had a little bit of coverage because the I guess the one of their pilots that would fly to the to the island kind of name dropped people that he had seen on the plane.

Of course, he didn't see any. He didn't testify, I don't think, to any wrongdoing, just the people that were on this plane going to Mr. Epstein's island. But he threw out, I think, what Clinton and Trump and Prince Andrew and I think there were a couple other big names that were on their way over there. So I still think this one's going to drop some bombshells. Yeah, it's it's if you look at the names involved and and just the, you know, and you can you can argue that some of these names are uncorroborated, but then you've literally got tons of images and pictures out there with these people definitely associating with Epstein.

And again, that could be him walking up at some event and just get in a picture with him. We're not saying everybody knew what was going on with this individual, but really, really harrowing accounts from these these young women that are given their accounts of what happened to them and the things that took place. Just just shocking and super upsetting. And, you know, I think that from from what I can tell, again, it's hard to make a prediction on this because, again, we don't have the same level of access to the evidence.

We're getting these secondhand accounts. But what do you what do you predict, Josh? I don't know. I think it's hard for her. You know, I don't I don't have any idea how long the trial will take, you know, so I'm curious on how long it'll it'll go. I know there's a lot of people that are going to be called to the stand and it's kind of an unusual it's kind of a little bit of an unusual case to have to prove. But I can't imagine she walks like I I imagine she's going to be found guilty. I think we're probably gonna have like another week and a half of of trial before it goes to the jury. But I can't imagine she walks away.

Yeah, I can't either. And I have to agree with you on that. And it'll be interesting to see, you know, how much how much more we hear about it, what else comes out and what kind of coverage that it gets and whether it just kind of fades into obscurity once once the verdict is released or whether, you know, there's something that that unravels further from this. Well, we'll keep watching this one. This one's got a ways to go, so we'll keep our eye on it.

I'm sure we'll talk about it again. But the big one and we've talked about this next case that's coming for the Supreme Court. This is Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization.

A lot of times you won't even hear the name of the case. This is the one that has the Mississippi, the state of Mississippi has a statute that basically prohibits abortions after week 15, after the first trimester in contradiction, direct contradiction to the rules that have been laid out under Roe v. Wade. And so this is the you know, the media has been talking about this one for a while, got kind of a more conservative leaning set of Supreme Court justices. This is going to be the first real test of, you know, Roe v. Wade. And a lot of people are worried about this one. A lot of people are super excited about it.

You know, I think me and Joe talked about this. You're either on one side or the other. And the Supreme Court's kind of in a bad spot because whatever they decide, I don't know, half the country will be really mad, half the country will be really happy.

So, you know, it's kind of a no win situation for them. But I think people are really concerned that Roe v. Wade has been precedent for however long since the 70s. And this is the first time where people are really worried there could be some big changes to it. Yeah.

And I'm with you. You know, some people are going to be that's the thing about people, you know, people are going to be upset. One side, one side of the aisle is going to be upset no matter what or both sides potentially, depending on what happens. I don't know that we're going to see any kind of super sweeping, gigantic earth shattering change here. But but like you said, you know, it's hard to predict.

You never know. It will be extremely interesting to see where this goes and to what extent, you know, things are, whether things change or how it's decided. I think that's really, you know, that's the really interesting thing. If you follow the Supreme Court and you know the history of the Supreme Court, you know, it's very politicized how a justice gets to the Supreme Court now. You know, they get nominated by a president, you know, and a Republican president's not usually going to nominate a, you know, a liberal Democratic justice.

They have to get confirmed. I know Justice Kavanaugh's confirmation was a hotly followed story, as was Justice Barrett. But I hate it's politicized because I really feel like if you if you if you pay attention, these justices, they come in and obviously they have their their beliefs, their religious beliefs, their feelings, their political leanings. But I really think on this level, these justices, you can see they take it very seriously.

They're not you know, they try not, I think, to insert their political beliefs directly into these cases. So on the justice, I'm sure you have you can kind of probably name them, but you've got certain justices that I'm sure firmly believe that abortion is a is a constitutional right that you can't really trifle with and you can't limit very easily. And I'm sure you've got your justices who think Roe v. Wade. I think Clarence Thomas has been very vocal. So Justice Thomas thinks that was bad law. And I think he talks about it whenever he speaks to the matter that he thinks that's a bad law. He doesn't really think abortion should be recognized as a constitutional right. And he's the most senior member of the court.

And so anyway, I'm with you, Joe. I don't think they're going to uphold this this Mississippi law. So I think they're going to strike it down.

I think it'll be status quo. You know, we still the Supreme Court has not ruled on the Texas law that we talked about, you know, the Texas abortion law that they've heard arguments on. We don't have a ruling yet on that. So that, you know, all this together has really got folks nervous. But I think the court generally respects precedent and I don't anticipate anything crazy happening, but you never I guess you never know.

Yeah, you never know, Josh. You know, we're we're talking a lot about, you know, the Supreme Court and judging and judging things. And it's a very good segue into our all time greatest legal movie tournament in which we will be judging several of the greatest legal films of all time. I tell you, I'm excited about this. We'll preview it just a little bit. We'll get into it in the next segment of the program.

The outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, your hosts again, practicing attorneys here in North Carolina, managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm offices, Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia, the ever expanding Whitaker and Hamer law firm. If you've got your own legal questions, you've been listening to this show and you've heard the guys go over these different cases. I mean, we're here to inform, educate, and we're trying to entertain and I think we're doing a pretty good job of that. All these different topics and some of them are very, very serious.

Some are not. But we do have these discussions for you each and every week here on the outlaw lawyers. If you've got your own questions, here's the number to call. Eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six.

That's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six. Leave your name, contact information briefly what you've got a question about. And an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be back in touch with you. If you've got a question you'd like answered on the air, well, email it to us.

Questions at the outlaw lawyer dot com will use it in an upcoming show. So, guys, are we going to do movie tournament and then the question from one of our listeners or how are you going to do that? Yeah, Morgan, I think we're going to jump right into into the movie tournament and reveal our comedy bracket and spend some time there. I mean, there's some deep discussion going on already behind the scenes on the comedy bracket. And I look forward to it.

It's coming up on the other side. Again, your list to the outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer. I'm Morgan Patrick, consumer advocate.

We're going to be back right after this. The outlaw lawyers are back. Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, your host, Whitaker and Hamer law firms, where you can find them during the week. The managing partners there, 46 combined years experience between these two. And again, offices, Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia.

And they are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. So we've gotten into some serious subjects today and now we're going to go not so serious, but a lot of fun. Josh, you came up with this idea to do a kind of a sweet 16 of legal movies. Where do we stand? All right.

So just to review this, that is what we're doing. This is a sweet 16 of the top. What we're trying to find is the top movie involving a trial involving the law.

We've been calling them legal movies, but the best legal movie of all time. And so we we're going to have 16. We'll call them teams, perhaps 16 movies. And we revealed last week, we revealed our first pod. So we had what I call the black and white pod. And so just by way of review, the black and white pod included four movies. So it was To Kill a Mockingbird, 12 Angry Men, Miracle on 34th Street and Inherit the Wind. And just for our listeners, Josh, is that one through four seeded? So To Kill a Mockingbird would be the overall number one?

I think so. I'm going to go back and revisit Seeds once we have all the movies revealed. I think To Kill a Mockingbird, I think that has to be our number one overall seed, just my personal opinion. But but yeah, so I think for the pod, that's the seeding.

So I think we can say for that pod, that's kind of one through four. We'll do an overall seeding once I haven't told Morgan and Joe all the movies yet. So once we have all the movies out there, we'll seed them up. We'll do a bracket. And then I was going to have our listeners vote.

So we'll put it out on social media and the Web page and we'll we'll kind of vote on these. Well, hopefully it'll be fun. We talk about so much serious stuff on the show.

I thought this would be I thought we could have a lot of fun with it. Listen, Josh, I don't want you to downplay the seriousness of all time classic films like Inherit the Wind. And this is a reminder to our listeners that I haven't seen very little movies. I get real bored. We talked about that earlier today on the new eight bit movie. It takes a lot for me to get through a movie because I just get bored and do something else. So I'm actually having to watch.

I don't know when I'm going to find the time, but I'm going to have to watch Inherit the Wind because I don't believe any of us have seen Inherit the Wind. That would be correct on this side. Yes. Are we sure it's a real movie? I think it is. I think you're legally required to watch at least one third of all these movies, Josh. Well, I think I think so.

I think we all need to, Joseph. I think you've seen several of our in reviewing the notes. I'm going to guess that you've seen every single one of the ones that we're going to discuss in our upcoming comedy bracket. That's right.

Well, we'll talk about that. Not not. I haven't seen them all.

Spoiler alert. That's four of the seven movies that you've seen all the way through in your life. And a fairly you know, I've seen To Kill a Mockingbird like ninety nine times. So that's really that really is unfair. You could have replaced ninety eight of those viewings with ninety eight.

And your life would be the better for it, honestly. All right. So we got it. We got our black and white pod, which we've discussed today. We were going to unveil our comedy brackets.

These are four legal movies, definitely comedies. The last one was a struggle. We'll talk about it. But I think the clear number one in this bracket, I guess there's some argument here. But I got my cousin Vinny as the number one coming out of the comedy bracket. That's a solid, solid pick. I think it's a solid pick. And I'm going to have to I think it is I think it's the number one, too.

I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to agree with you. And we can we can see that number one. It's got the strongest strength of schedule of these films. I have seen that movie from beginning to end more than once.

So that's that says a lot for that one. And I believe Marisa Torme won. Was it best actress or best supporting actress for her role as the girlfriend to Joe Pesci?

Obviously, Vinny. But yeah, that was that was a very entertaining movie. You know, side note, Marisa Torme, my secret crush on Marisa Torme goes back to my different world days when she was on the first season of a different world. But you know what her best performance was?

It wasn't my cousin Vinny. You know what her best performance was? I'm bated breath.

I can't I can't wait for this. Did you ever see The Wrestler? That was a good movie. Not a legal movie. That's a good movie. Yeah, it was a good movie. So that's that's what you're that's you're saying that's her best performance? I think that's her best role.

I think she did a good job there. What? Not not Wild Hogs?

Wild Hogs is an all time classic. It's horrible. So bad. So so just to back up your claim there, Josh, Marisa Torme, she was she was nominated and she won Best Supporting Actress for My Cousin Vinny. Also nominated and won for The Wrestler as well.

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, she is. Several awards, several, several awards. She didn't win the Academy Award.

She was nominated. But she won the Central Ohio Film Critics Association Award. Oh, that's that's probably real big in Ohio. The only one in the central society. Yeah, the central part of Ohio.

Some some of the best film critics that there are are from that central Ohio area. So my my cousin Vinny strong, strong performances. That was that was Fred Gwynn.

You know, if you're a big monster. Oh, gosh. Fred Gwynn's last last anything I think. Great set of pipes. But anyway, so my cousin Vinny, I think we can all agree. Very strong movie. But there's a lot of folks.

The next one I got here is it's very popular. A lot of people like The Legally Blonde. A fine film. A fine film.

I think a strong second seed. But but it's not my cousin Vinny, Josh. I have not seen Legally Blonde all the way through it. I have seen all the parts of it in different orders from when my wife watches it. That counts, man. I walk in and it's got some funny parts.

Again, I don't think it's a cousin Vinny. But come on, guys. I mean, we've we've all been in a bar and we wanted to get the attention of a female back in the day when we when we weren't married and weren't attached. And we've done the bend and snap. Come on.

We've done that. The bend and snap. Yeah.

The bend and snap. A classic. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a film that was very, very popular in popular culture. Speaking of awards, Reese Witherspoon did win the MTV Movie Award for both best line and best dressed and best comedic performance.

So really racking up the awards for the film Legally Blonde for Reese Witherspoon. Do you have that in front of you? What was the best line?

Let's see. I've got I do have let's see if I can pull up the best line from the MTV Movie Awards. Good Lord.

There's a lot of awards, a lot of awards. The best the best line. All right.

I'm going to do my best to deliver it. It was, oh, I like your outfit, too. Except when I dress up as a frigid word that's not permitted on a radio show, I try to not look so constipated. Oh, man, that line beat out King Kong ain't got nothing on me from Denzel Washington and Training Day. I don't know that I can agree with that. Yeah, that's I can't get with that either.

That's that's rough. I won't be dropping a quote from Legally Blonde. I'm just going to say that. No, that's too long of a quote.

We can drop the bend and snap. That's that is enough of a callback to Legally Blonde. Yes. Anyway, it's the number two. It's the number two film. A lot of people seen it.

Very popular. Spawned the sequel Legally Blonde to red, white and blonde in the Chihuahua movies. Right. Then the Chihuahua get a movie. I don't know if it was it. I think the Chihuahua got a movie, but I don't know if it was I don't think it's connected to Legally Blonde. I thought for some reason I thought it was part of the.

That could have been any Chihuahua to be honest with you. All right. The number the number three seed, which I think is a surprisingly strong three seed. But Jim Carrey's Liar Liar. You guys remember that one? Right. Right. His kid puts a little bit of a curse on him.

He can't he can't tell a lie. I always avoided this movie. I like I like Jim Carrey just fine. But, you know, I always I can't remember exactly what year this came out, but 1997.

Yeah. I always wanted to be an attorney. I wasn't in law school yet.

1997. But I didn't like I didn't like them saying attorneys had to lie, that kind of thing. And as I kind of I kind of put this one on the back burner, seeing most of it, I'm going to have to watch it again. I've seen most of it, but I got to give it a good, honest viewing. This is back when Jim Carrey was like number one at the box office, could really do no wrong.

And he was riding the wave. And I mean, it's it's a funny movie. It's a good movie. It is. It is a funny movie. And it's it very firmly falls in the category of a legal film. And I think when you look at all of the legal comedies, it's it's a fair it's fair to call that a three seed. And I think it's a good pick. All right. So what's number four?

So this fourth seed, it was it's a long shot. So when I started looking at it, I started considering the movies that we could. Because I think we talked about a lot of them that like there was some legal aspect, but it was kind of shaky. Couldn't really tangentially related.

Yeah, I couldn't really bring those in. So when I got down to the actual movies that really did revolve around the trial or something legal, there wasn't a there wasn't a whole lot. And I ended up picking this one because I read I haven't seen that. And we want to state for the record that it was Josh that picked this one. It was Josh. I haven't I haven't seen this movie.

And I can't I can't strong start the argument, Josh. But I read I read a synopsis and I'll share it with you. But the number four seed in the comedy bracket is going to be a movie you may or may not know exist.

Apparently it was called Jury Duty and starred the comedic genius Polly Shore. You may remember him. Oh, my. Yeah, I was seeing the movie, Josh. You need to own it. I think you need to you can't hide from it.

And I'm hoping this is available to stream. Right. I didn't check. Sometimes it was a fairly this this was a time when Polly Shore was was on top of the world.

But I mean, he had he was far more popular than he is now. And yeah, jury duty, man. You've seen jury duty, Josh. You just may not remember it.

But Polly Shore movies, the fact that you uttered uttered the name Polly Shore. So this is Chaminade. This is Chaminade of the tournament. Yeah, this is definitely going to be the 16th seed.

I can't imagine. I haven't revealed the rest of we still got two brackets to go. We still got eight movies to bring into this.

But I can't imagine jury duty not being the 16th seed. But I will tell you in the synopsis I read. So in our black and white pod, we have 12 Angry Men. That's one of our movies in our black and white pod. I have not seen 12 Angry Men. I will watch it. But this is apparently is a comedy, but it's loosely based on 12 Angry Men, which I find crazy. I want to apologize to Chaminade for comparing them to Polly Shore.

But I tell you, the comedy bracket looks pretty good, minus the fourth seed. My Cousin Vinny, Legally Blonde, Liar Liar and Jury Duty starring the epic Polly Shore. The Outlaw Liars. You're listening to Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer. They are your hosts and also managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm. Practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina. Forty six combined years experience between these two in offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia. If you've got your own legal question.

Well, we're here for you. Here's the number to call. Eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six.

That's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six. Leave your name, contact information, a little bit about what the call is about. An attorney will be back in touch with you if you want your question. Well, addressed on the air.

Send it to us. Questions at the Outlaw Lawyer dot com. Again, that's questions at the Outlaw Lawyer dot com. We've got a listener question coming up on the other side and we're excited.

We'll be right back after this. Welcome back to the Outlaw Lawyer's. Josh Whitaker, Joe Hamer, your host, Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm. Forty six combined years experience offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia. They are the managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer. They are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. And we are at the sprint to the finish. If you've got a legal question of your own, make sure you call eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six.

That's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six. Or you can send your question to the show. Questions at the Outlaw Lawyer dot com. Guys, I know you've got a listener question, so let's get to it.

Hamer it out. Well, Morgan, we get these listener questions and a lot of times we'll get multiple questions on kind of the same topic. So I try to consolidate them into one question that we can spend some time talking about. And so we get a lot of questions on a home homeowners associations in general, like what kind of homeowners association do?

How can they find me? A lot of HOA questions. And so I've consolidated those into kind of the worst case scenario. And it's can a homeowners association foreclose on you? So, Joseph, that's the question. That's our listener question.

How would you answer that question? I'm going to answer that question in the affirmative, Josh, because a homeowners association absolutely can and will foreclose on you. And we have actually seen it happen on more than one occasion where a homeowners association has foreclosed on a homeowner. So every state's a little different.

You know, there's some unified, you know, uniform Planned Communities Act that a lot of states, including North Carolina, have adopted. But state by state, the homeowners association questions can have different answers of me and Joe being licensed in North Carolina. In North Carolina, an HOA, if it's set up correctly, if it's got all its ducks in a row, if they find you, you know, usually the HOA will foreclose because they're fighting you for something.

You haven't paid your dues. You're getting fined for violating a covenant and you're not rectifying that violation so you can get daily fines. Maybe be liable for some HOA attorney's fees. And at some point, that number that you owe, the HOA gets to a point where the HOA can foreclose on your home, sell it at public auction, just like your Wells Fargo, just like your lender could in Bank of America, whoever your lender might be. And they can sell it to a third party who would then own it subject to anything that was already there.

Right. So if you've got a first mortgage that you pay every month, that first mortgage is still there. But you don't own the property. You know, the HOA, if they do everything right, you'd have plenty of notice. There'd be a lot of times you'd have a lot of time to consult with an attorney, hire an attorney, try to take care of it. But the last resort for an HOA is they do have the ability to foreclose on on a lien if they've properly filed a lien. So the like Joseph said, the answer is yes. But most HOA's don't want to go that far.

Right. Most HOA's won't just to rectify whatever the issue is between the two of you. And I think foreclosure, I would argue, is kind of a last resort. You don't see it a lot, but you do see it. It does happen where people just reach an impasse and I guess the HOA thinks they have no other option and the homeowner doesn't budge.

And this is kind of where the two trains meet going full speed. So it does happen. We see it a lot.

Yeah. And I think the lesson for our listeners, you know, a lot of people get annoyed with their HOA and, you know, take the approach like, what can these what can they really do to me? Like, I'm not paying this. There's a lot they can do to you. You know, they are legally empowered to impose substantial fines. And we've seen people charge just ridiculous sums of legal fees and collection fees and things like that. And if, you know, if it's if it's something that's allowed in the covenants and isn't against statute, these are things that can be done.

So, you know, you need to take that seriously. And it's something you really need to be considering when you buy a property. You know, what what's your HOA? What are their fees? What does it look like? What's the structure?

Because it's it's it's something that you may not like, but it is something that by law they are able to do. And you just got to be cognizant of that. Gentlemen, another great show, fast moving, looking forward to next week. Want to remind everybody you're listening to the Outlaw Lawyer's Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, your host. You can find him at Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm, Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia, where their offices are located. They are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina and the managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm. If you've got a question, send it to us.

800-659-1186. Or you can email questions at the OutlawLawyer.com. We'll see you on the radio next week. Outlaw Lawyer is hosted by an attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina. Some of the guests appearing on the show may be licensed North Carolina attorneys. Discussion of the show is meant to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice. Legal advice can only be rendered once an attorney, licensed in the state in which you live, had the opportunity to discuss the facts of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law in North Carolina and how these laws affect the average North Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly.