How Piggly Wiggly Created the Modern Supermarket

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Get yours in coconut or other fabulous scents at a nearby retail store. Hi everyone it's me Katie Couric. You know if you've been following me on social media you know I love to cook or at least try especially alongside some of my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blanco, Jake Cohen, Lydie Hoyk, Alison Roman and Ina Garten. So I started a free newsletter called Good Taste to share recipes, tips and kitchen must-haves. Just sign up at katiecurryk.com slash good taste that's k-a-t-i-e-c-o-u-r-i-c dot com slash good taste.

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You can listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. From the only thing that changed when Piggly Wiggly the first modern American supermarket opened over a hundred years ago. On September 6, 1916 hundreds of curious shoppers came out for the opening of a new grocery store at 79 Jefferson Avenue in Memphis Tennessee and we broadcast here in Oxford Mississippi.

Memphis is only one hour practically due north. For weeks they'd seen billboards and read newspaper ads about this grocery store with the funny name that promised an entirely new shopping experience one that would according to its owner forever change the retail grocery business. Greg Hengler sat down with Mike Freeman near the location of that first Piggly Wiggly in downtown Memphis. Mike Freeman is the author of Clarence Saunders and the founding of Piggly Wiggly the rise and fall of a Memphis Maverick. I took a job at a restaurant downtown Memphis that happened to be at 79 Jefferson and that was the first location of the Piggly Wiggly store.

It was an interesting fact you know I became interested in that. My employer wanted me to do some research because he was curious as well you know what happened in the building and such. It's important to know what Saunders did differently was in the old days if you went into a store to shop you couldn't just reach out and pick out your own grocery you had clerks do that for you so you had to wait for them to you tell the clerk what you want and then they would bring it to you and Saunders thought well this is really slow this is so inefficient and all this tied in and all this tied in with brand advertised before the tournament century he had all these brands we still recognize Kellogg's cereal Van Camp pork and beans all these companies were selling their products and stores and Saunders knew well you don't need a clerk to tell you what cereal you like you like Kellogg's cereal there it is you get it yourself. My support thing to him is I could sell more groceries less cost like pay fewer people. Saunders grew up from a family that was poor in fact there's one story that a neighbor bought Clarence a pair of shoes and then when Saunders had money later in life he we sent a check to that family for a number of years because they helped him out and then he really needed it so he you know what it was like to suffer your genuine hardship and he carried that with him you know he that probably motivated him as much as he thinks to do something. Saunders became a traveling salesman for wholesale company so he would call upon grocers and Saunders developed a reputation from being a bit brash as he would go into a store and he would tell the store owner says you know you would sell more vegetables if you displayed them this way as to the way you had it and some thought well what does this guy know no not everybody appreciated his advice but it shows that he was already thinking about you know what trying ways to do things have been better than before. There wasn't a man in Memphis who built a chain of stores Mr. Bowers stores they were small like corner grocery stores but every Bowers store looked exactly the same as the signs in the front and the layout of the store where the groceries were placed so each Bowers store was identical and that was an innovation too if you went from one store to the other you didn't know exactly where to find what you wanted to buy because everything was in the same place despite you know a different location and Saunders uh he absorbed these ideas that's the principle chain store everything is alike as much as a convene so if you're comfortable with what they do then you'll shop at chain store no matter where that location was so you could go into a town where you unfamiliar to you and find your favorite grocery you know whatever the business is or Starbucks for that matter and get exactly what you want and that's the whole principle chain store Bowers did that before Saunders so he clearly learned from Bowers how to manage a chain store business the one thing that Bowers did not do was arrange things customers to pick out themselves so he still had clerks and Saunders thought this was an inefficient way of doing things and he was kind of sarcastic he says you know in a store is not very busy the poor customer can't get the attention of a clerk because they're busy goofing off in the back route he said that happens or they're so busy like during Christmas season you know everyone's shopping in the store so busy they can't handle the orders properly so the arrangement of the store Bowers and the older merchants had was as you walked up to a counter and once you had your clerk's attention you would rattle off what you wanted and then he would go about the the rest of the store picking out the items you wanted and bring them to the front and then you would transact business then then off you go and Saunders thought well you need a clerk to tell them that Campbell's soup is good or you just put it on a shelf they can find it themselves he took this uh journey to Terre Haute, Indiana to look at a store that he was told was unique and designs differently and he came back a bit disappointed it wasn't really anything special at all and Saunders told the story off and he said on the way back he saw this mother pig at a farm and he saw all these piglets trying to feed off the mother pig and it reminded him of customers trying to attract attention of a clerk and then the idea popped in his head he had the name Piggly Wiggly just from seeing this pig okay that's the name and then he went about designing well how are we going to actually do this we'd have to practically rebuild the interior of a store to change its self-service Piggly Wiggly you know that was his name and uh this uh it was a very unusual name I mean I think it was perfect for what he was trying to do because he's being different and then he would he began writing advertisements where Piggly Wiggly became a character Piggly Wiggly goes to town you know Piggly Wiggly does this and so you know that's how he built his uh brand identity he made a story out of an imaginary pig that went shopping I'll read part of one it's Piggly Wiggly ain't that a funny name the fellow that got up that name must have a screw loose somewheres all this may be so but the Piggly Wiggly knows its own business best and his business will be this to have no store clerk's gab and smirk while folks are standing around 10 deep at later dock every customer will be her own clerk so if she wants to talk to a kid of tomatoes and kill her time all right and well the scenes likely this would be a mighty loathsome chat Saunders addressed customer fears you know it used to be if you went in certain stores in the old days and you know the clerk might put his thumb on the scale so you'd pay extra for tomatoes or potatoes or whatever or they'd sell you food that was out of date and Saunders thought all that was just just raw it was just not good business you could sell more groceries just by being honest he was very proud of he talked a lot about uh labeling prices on everything so you walk in you go to the canned soup aisle you know exactly what the price of that soup is and didn't matter what store you're in one of the stores they all price things about the same and then matter who you were or whether the clerk knew you or not you got the same price when we come back more of mike freeman telling the story of clarence Saunders the founder of pigly wiggly here on our american story spins exciting promotions and always generous jackpots you can waste your time with the others or you can win at modo register today at modo.us for your free welcome bonus modo is a social casino no purchase necessary void where prohibited play responsibly conditions apply see website i'm ben out of halfway host of the history podcast the last archive and i want to tell you about a new series running in our feed it's called the deadline and it features six essays written and read by jill lepor the new yorker writer american historian and founding host of our show these are incredible essays on everything from the history of cryogenics to the silicon valley gospel of disruption and at the end of each essay i interviewed jill about her craft as a writer and how she's thinking about the themes of these essays now we talk frankenstein we talk writing leads we talk barbie we talk dr who this is a crazy origin story i don't think i've ever told this before i really loved having these conversations with jill and it was a rare chance to talk to her about how she goes about reading writing and the work of history you can listen to the deadline on the last archive feed on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hi everyone it's me katie kurek if you follow me on social media you know i love to cook or at least try especially alongside some of my favorite chefs and foodies like benny blanco jake cohen lighty hoike allison roman and of course ina garden and martha stewart so i started a free newsletter called good taste that comes out every thursday and it's serving up recipes that will make your mouth water think a candied bacon bloody mary tacos with cabbage slaw curry cauliflower with almonds and mint and cherry slab pie with vanilla ice cream to top it all off i mean yum i'm getting hungry but if you're not sold yet we also have kitchen tips like a foolproof way to grill the perfect burger and must have products like the best cast iron skillet to feel like a chef in your own kitchen all you need to do is sign up at katiekurek.com good taste that's k-a-t-i-e-c-o-u-r-i-c dot com slash good taste i promise your taste buds will be happy you did i'm jacob goldstein i used to host a show called planet money now i'm starting a new show it's called what's your problem every week on what's your problem entrepreneurs and engineers describe the future they're going to build once they solve a few problems how do you build a drone delivery business from scratch our customers they want us to do this unbelievably reliably in the storms no matter what hundreds of times a day how do you turn a wild dream about a new kind of biology into a 10 billion dollar company we didn't have a particular technology we didn't have a way of making money um it was a great way to start a company i highly recommend it how do you sell millions of dollars worth of dog ramps for wiener dogs in the middle of a pandemic we're working with 400 influencers and the majority of them are actually not a person but it's actually a dog i can tell you right now the dog ramp guy has some very interesting problems listen to what's your problem on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast my name is michael wolf and i'm the host of fire and fury the podcast not too long ago i saw donald trump and he shouted hey michael i made you rich and the truth is my three books about trump they have sold a lot of copies it all started eight years ago i found myself in donald trump's beverly hills home sharing hagen-dazs ice cream with him i asked him why was he running for president and he answered without missing a beat because i want to be the most famous man in the world since then i've become a go-to person when trump and those around him want to talk and now every week i'm going to share those insider stories with you listen to fire and fury the podcast on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and we continue with our american stories and with author mike freeman telling the story of pigley wiggly and its founder clarence Saunders let's continue with mike he knew he was taking a less profit he probably had people in the grocery business said when you can't make any money you're not selling high enough you're not making enough profit but he was looking up volume you know and you get over the more stores you open the more volume you have you know one of the benefits of self-service is you're you are selling more goods per day and that helps eliminate the problem of spoiled food or expired food and Saunders was aware of that and he he would advertise to people see this is what i'm doing i'm going to treat you fair i mean now you can't imagine going in the store not having a label on it so this is 32 cents or whatever can't imagine it but before you know the 20th century that was common plate you know once you've labeled everything then no grocery store can hide you know his competitors are thinking uh-oh you know it has to do something different you know he proved right there that first year that he had about eight or nine stores in memphis and bowers had over 40 and he he outsold the bower stores simply because he made it easier for people to shop and they just started swarming into this into the big wiglets you know he's one of those rare individuals that has an idea that worked and it transformed part of our society you know i don't say he's as great as henry ford but you know ford decided well why why can't we put an engine in this little carriage and then hook it up to some wheels and then we don't need a horse and bug anymore we have a car change the world and the solders isn't of that level of success but i think he had the same mind where he thought well let's do something a little different here you know the old ways are yeah you can do a little faster a little bit better than that and then that's what piglet was grocery stores a version of the model t as interesting as the next year he started franchise and uh he actually filed for several patents you know several pat but he started selling the idea that well uh you guys down in arkansas mississippi you can build a thing with it yeah there's towns all over the south that were large enough to support a couple of grocery stores and then that preceded very rapidly selling franchises all over the place you could argue that the founder of walmart did virtually the same thing he put a walmart and medium-sized towns you know but town doesn't have a walmart it is kind of not a town but the having a store like that in your community hiring the local folks to work in the store probably manage the store it built a loyalty for their brand for walmart still exists the difference between wild and saunders is walton never lost his business he held on to him where i think saunders had a lot of the same attitudes same personality in some way he wanted to be that champion but in the end he didn't keep that business long enough though right now most people don't know who saunders is saunders achieved a level of celebrity and wealth that must be what we dream up he's most famous for the pink palace is a building i don't know how many square feet it is uh well they've added on to it but the majority of that 36,000 square feet is what he built and it was to have a swimming pool uh and just have everything a rich person would walk saunders tried to outsmart traders of wall street and to explain it simply he didn't realize they wrote the rules of trade there was no governing agency overseeing financial trade that we have now uh it was whatever certain people who would call wall street decided to do is what was done they made the rules among themselves i have trouble sometimes describing a short sale it's just a stock maneuver where different people in the financial business spread rumors that a company's in trouble that the stocks are what not worth what it's listing at now and saunders thought that was horrible i think the wiggly had over expanded and there was a franchisor or two that got bankrupt and that was all the trigger that these short sellers made it and he started this campaign is take the shares out of the hands of these wall street thieves or wolves and he started a buying campaign in memphis you know save piggy wiggly from menthols his most people in memphis or you know any city outside of new york probably thought about wall street the same speed it and it's sort of a this kind of a villainous place and he was playing on that you know don't let these thieves take our figmy wiggly away from us so everyone invested in saunders scheme to buy all the shares hold them but he pushed these these traders into a panic because whatever they borrow they have to pay and if he's buying all the shares they have to come to him you repay what they owe him i mean he was trying to trap them and the board of directors of the stock exchange in new york kept saunders from doing that they let but the traders off the hook they could change the rule see there's no government agency overseeing stock exchange and they could change the rules of the government agency overseeing stock trading whatever the board of directors thought was legal was illegal and especially if they had friends who got caught up in this scheme we're begging you know don't let us die out here that's the well less saunders died you know they don't know him they don't care about him he's not part of their social group or anything like that at all it's just some hillbilly from tennessee who thought he knew what he was doing they just you know rules to let him die though he had borrowed all that money instead of gaining what he thought would be hundreds of millions of dollars he had nothing you know 12 me is a lot of money today to loot imagine what it was like 1923 what saunders had done and there were people that really liked him because he was you know come very famous was he had begged memphians to pull together money pay off this debt so thinking wiggly get back to normal operating under his leadership and and people did have right rallies or safe pigby wiggly from memphis that was the can made out for saunders he was careful to say safe taking the wiggly from memphis and and he had a point there too i mean you know there's a lot of jobs of memphis now because of this store this business and then he made the dumb mistake of putting money into this what we now know as the pig palace which is an extravagant hole they says you know i mean and people that invested in take away they must have been shocked is what are in the world are you doing we're taking time away from our business spending our money bail you out and you're building this stupid house now you don't have time for that anymore how did they find out about it well a workman had been injured and the newspaper published a story get up holy cow you know they couldn't believe it this is terrible mistake ebay and then costing well i mean he tried again to make money and he did but i mean he's still famous for what tigby wiggly and he lost the only area company for six years i guess that's the story is marco in itself was that we started with one store six years later he had a thousand i mean you know he had some substantial chain but i mean he was successful he was successful he did build something that was unique he just didn't hold on to it i mean he would be sam walton today or his memory would be as big as sam walton if he had just held on to pigmy wiggly like walton held on to walmart the most fitting memorial to him is the ordinary self-service store sam walton founded walmart in 1962 by the end of his life in 1992 walton owned the largest retail merchandising company in the world in his autobiography sam walton made in america he credited the enormous success of his retail stores to the principle of self-service his brief description of the benefits that self-service gave to him and his desire to pass on the savings to his customers seemed to be a near match to saunter's own words two generations before during the past 25 years supermarkets and large merchandise stores have become popular in nearly every country in europe asia latin america and parts of africa in an odd way clarence saunter's prophetic slogan for pigley wiggly all over the world has come true and great job on the piece as always by greg hangler and a special thanks to mike freeman who wrote the book clarence saunders and the founding of pigley wiggly and what a story and that he started the idea of pricing and transparency and volume so that we could lower profits on each individual item but make up for that with volume and that is indeed what sam walton did there's no doubt that sam took a lot of the ideas of pigley wiggly and scaled them to a much larger operation the story of pigley wiggly the story of clarence saunders here on our american story you