The Constitution Was Designed For Conflict: The Story of America [Ep. 10]

Chief White House Correspondent Kristin Welker joins me now. From across the nation.

What is the number one issue for you? To the national stage. And I welcome you to the final 2020 presidential debate. When critical votes were counted. Still too close to call. And when power was held to account.

Is abuse of power an impeachable offense? Kristin Welker met the moment. Now she joins Meet the Press as its new moderator. If it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.

Sundays on NBC. State Farm is committed to being your top choice when ensuring the things that matter to you. My cultura podcast host, Dramos, also believes in the power of financial knowledge. That's why he makes sure to share his financial tips on his podcast, Life as a Gringo. When I was wanting to purchase my first home, I wanted to buy a property that also made me money.

So with the property that I purchased, I actually have a tenant. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Learn more at es.statefarm.com. State Farm is a proud partner of the Michael Tura Podcast Network. Following last year's amazing turnout, the Black Effect Podcast Network and Nissan are giving 50 HBCU STEAM scholars the opportunity to have an all-expenses-paid trip to Nissan's second Thrill of Possibility Summit. This is a remarkable opportunity to be mentored by auto, tech, and podcasting's brightest minds. NCA&T's Marcus Scott Jr., who attended the first summit, had this to say, a life-changing, impactful experience that I've never had in my life.

Enter now to be a part of this incredible weekend. For more information, visit blackeffect.com. And we return to our American stories. Up next, another installment of our series about us, the Story of America series, with Hillsdale College professor and author of the terrific book, Land of Hope, Bill McClay. There's also a wonderful young readers edition of Land of Hope. If you know or have kids in your life, by all means, pick up this book at Amazon or the usual suspects.

You won't regret it. When the framers drafted the Constitution, they did so with many goals in mind. But one we might not think about is the goal of managing conflict. In fact, it can be said that the Constitution was designed for conflict. Let's get into the story.

Here's Bill McClay. One of the biggest issues that needed to be resolved was the question of representation. How were the different entities that made up the United States to be represented? How were the people to be represented in the Congress?

There was a conflict right off the bat. Madison introduced a plan for representation by population. The more populated a state was, the more representatives it would have in the Congress. And this was rightly and understandably objected to by the small states, which had less population, but they were states also. And they felt representation should be by state, not by population. So you have these two very different views, both of which have some legitimacy to them.

Neither one is outlandish. So this was a clash of principle, and not just of competing interests. It was certainly competing interests, but you should never be content when people tell you this is a clash over interests, because interests generally have principles lurking behind them.

And this definitely did. What did it mean to be represented? So what they came up with, with the help of Roger Sherman of Connecticut, was the Great Compromise. And the Great Compromise consisted of having a Congress that had two houses, two houses, one, the lower house, so-called, the House of Representatives, would apportion representation according to population. So the big states like Virginia would get, proportionately, more representatives than smaller states like Rhode Island. But there would be a second house, the Senate, which would be representative of the states. Every state, irrespective of its size or size, or population, would have two representatives, called senators. And the Senate would be much smaller as a result. You know, we now have 50 states with only 100 members of the Senate, many, many more members, four times, over four times as many members of the House of Representatives today.

So this was the solution. Each house had certain powers that were exclusive to it. The House of Representatives got to initiate spending bills, appropriations.

They had the power of the purse to initiate bills. But bills had to pass both houses. So it did have to run the gauntlet of the Senate, eventually, appropriations bills did. But the Senate had many, many privileges or responsibilities that were exclusively its. The Senate ratified treaties. The Senate had an advise and consent function, in which it nominees to the cabinet and other executive appointments had to be consented to by the Senate.

The Senate would have the power to examine and validate those nominations. Senators had six-year terms of office. So they didn't have to run for election as often.

That meant they could be more detached, less worried about doing something on principle that the population might object to. That's one reason why the ratification of treaties, for example, would be the province of the Senate. They could be more deliberative. People often refer to the Senate as the world's greatest deliberative body.

That's the idea. They could think along a longer track. House of Representatives, however, it was a different matter. The representatives ran every two years. So they were, as soon as they got elected, they were thinking about being reelected. And that meant they had to be very, very in tune with what their constituencies were thinking at any particular time. So it's the more popular House. It's the one more in touch with the people. By design, the Senate, by design is less so, more, you could say, aristocratic in its bearing.

And this is all by design. One other thing that we should mention is that this new government, this new Constitution, the Constitution of 1787, had much greater powers, especially in the executive branch. But it was very important that the powers given to the government were enumerated. That is, they're numbered. They're finite. They're defined. If something wasn't enumerated, you can do this.

You can't do this. Then the assumption was you couldn't do it. The powers that were given, the charter that was given to the national government enumerated those powers. It was to be a limited government.

That's what we're getting at here. It's a limited government that would also be controlled by the separation of powers and the clashes that the separation of powers would inevitably result in to the public good, not always the most efficient way of doing business. If you want to just have somebody with the stroke of a pen bring something into being, then the Constitution is not for you. But if you want to make sure that all political entities are represented and have a voice and have an ability to speak against things that they think are against their interests or against their principles, then the Constitution does the job. And it is very good, not perfect, but very good at inhibiting governments from doing rash and foolish things.

We've done plenty of rash and foolish things, as we'll talk about in the course of this discussion. But the Constitution has a tendency to inhibit that. It was designed for conflict.

Let me repeat that. The Constitution was designed for conflict. It presumed human beings being human beings would always differ in their goals and intentions, their conceptions, their interests, the interests of their region, of their section, of their line of work. All of these things, you could try to eliminate conflict altogether by giving everybody the same ideas. And, well, you don't have a free society if you have that.

Pure and simple. Or you can allow for the free play of opinions, of perspectives, and create a mechanism where those different points of view can come into conflict with one another and fight it out, not literally fight it out, but fight it out within the legislative process to decide who prevails. And by that manner, you arrive at a greater degree of unanimity than you're going to get if you try to make everybody believe the same thing. So that's what the Constitution's about. It's a charter for conflict. That's not the way we tend to teach it in civics class, but it's true. A good Constitution is one that is structured in a way that's in accordance with human nature. It goes along with our quarrelsome, contentious, disparate, pluralistic nature.

It's structured so that conflicts can be negotiated and channeled for the greater good of the largest part of the public. I like to compare it to an internal combustion engine, which has a series of explosions. When you drive a car, you're driving a machine that's being powered by explosions, constant explosions, but the explosions take place in chambers, in cylinders. They drive pistons.

They drive a crankshaft that drives the wheels of your car and moves it down the road with great power. So the energy released by these explosions is channeled for the public good. The Constitution is designed in just such a way, but it's designed to work with human nature, not against it, with the grain, not against the grain.

And in some sense, the Constitution provides us with the rules of engagement by which we conduct politics. And a terrific job on the editing production and storytelling by our own Monty Montgomery, himself a Hillsdale College grad, and a special thanks to Hillsdale College professor Bill Maclay. He's the author of Land of Hope. And there's also a wonderful young reader's edition of Land of Hope. If you know or have kids in your life, by all means, pick up this book, go to amazon.com for the usual suspects. And by the way, it's just so true. Gridlock is a feature of the Constitution, not a bug. It was designed to manage conflict.

The story of us, the story of America, and our Constitution, here on Our American Stories. Introducing Uber Teen Accounts, an Uber account for your teen with always-on enhanced safety features. Your teen can request a ride when you can't take them. You'll get real-time notifications along the way. Your teen can feel a sense of independence. You can follow their entire route on a live tracking map. Your teen will get assigned the top-rated drivers. Thank you.

You will get peace of mind. Add your teen to your Uber account today. Available in select locations.

See app for details. Throughout history, electricity has inspired some pretty incredible inventions, like smartphones and those little robot vacuums people name like pets. But of all the great things, nothing compares to the Hyundai IONIQ 5. 100% electric, two-way charging capability, and up to a 300-mile range. The Hyundai IONIQ 5, your journey at its most evolved. 2023 IONIQ 5 is available at select dealers in select states only. Contact your Hyundai dealer for availability details. The IONIQ 5 SE SEL and limited rear wheel drive models, EPA estimated 303-mile driving range is based on a fully charged battery.

Your actual range will vary. Hey, hey, it's Malcolm Gladwell, host of Revisionist History. eBay Motors is here for the ride. Your elbow grease, fresh installs, and a whole lot of love transformed 100,000 miles and a body full of rust into a drive entirely its own. Brake kits, LED headlights, whatever you need, eBay Motors has it. And with eBay Guaranteed Fit, it's guaranteed to fit your ride the first time, every time, or your money back. Plus, at these prices, you're burning rubber, not cash. Keep your ride or die alive at ebaymotors.com. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply.