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Yeah. This is Lee Habib, and this is our American Stories, the show where America is the star and the American people. Coming to you from the city where the West begins, Fort Worth, Texas. We love doing stories about music here on this show. We've done stories on Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Irving Berlin, and of course stories of songs, I Will Always Love You, and so many more.
Today we bring you the story of a producer. His name, Dave Cobb, is not Some of the acts that he works with are Some of the biggest acts in country music and music in general. Here's a conversation I had with Dave right after The Wanderer came out, the album that started. Chris Stapleton's career. And now someone who I think is And I think he's going to almost blush when we say this, but I think it's true joining the ranks of Rick Rubens with some of the artists.
I know. Oh, no. I hate doing that to you. But it's Dave Cobb, who we read about in the Wall Street Journal. I'm a big music fan, so I've known Dave's work and been following the artists he's been getting behind and getting the best out of, which I think is what Producers or great directors do is they get the best performance out of an artist.
And actually, it's what coaches do. And it's all about pulling the God-given talent and the potential out of a human being. And Dave Cobb, your artist Chris Stapleton, Jason Isbell, Sturgil Simpson, Lake Street Drive. Thanks for joining us. Thank you guys.
I appreciate it, man. Too nice. Hey, you bet. And hey, look, before we start, we always like to talk to everybody on our show about their life, about their childhood in particular. And how it shaped who you are and what you do.
Well, I grew up I'm from Savannah, Georgia, and I grew up in Pentecostal church. My grandmother was a a minister, so we always had in our church we did pretty much hymnal based music and you know, pedal steel, piano, guitar and and uh and bass and you know, kind of a choir singing the whole time and and uh you know, when I was a kid I was into Black Sabbath and AC D C and Van Halen and Led Zeppelin and pretty much anything, but how I grew up and I had to move to California and and really learn about country music way late in life and and to to kind of discover where you came from in the first place, you know. At twenty seven I moved I was in a band and and my band's record deal was kinda getting stuck and I felt like, you know, I I really Felt a calling to be in the studio and I felt like California was a place to go, so I ran all the way to California to produce rock records. And when I got out to California at 27, I met uh Shooter Jennings, Wayland Jennings' son, and we produced his first records, and that wound up being my first hit country record. And next thing you know, I'm.
Uh through him on that Jamie Johnson and was starting to I did a couple songs in his first record, about seven on the second record and Just kind of kept coming to Nashville after that.
So eventually I I kind of really discovered great country music through the Jennings, you know. It was really him educating me, playing me the right records, and then I discovered all the stuff I didn't know about growing up.
Well, the Gateway record for me was a concept record called White Mansions that an English guy, Paul Kinnell, wrote about the American Civil War. And It had Gwen Johns, my favorite English producer, produced the record, and he had Waylon Jennings and Jesse Coulter. And when I heard that record, it was my. Gateway into country music, which is a really kind of a back way to get into it. And then I discovered, you know, how great Waylon was, and I started.
Buying every whale on record I could, and I discovered all the offshoots of that. Everybody else, all his contemporaries, you know, Jerry Reed and started diving into everything with that and you know going campbell and started going crazy on Gwen Campbell and just I I I kept kind of digging and digging and digging and then You know, it's it's it's been, you know, kind of like a Rebirth musically to hear all these great country records that I never knew about. I mean, in our house, we had the poppiest of the pop country records that we had and it was a Barbara Mandrell record or Kenny Rogers, but I didn't know about Johnny Paycheck, you know, or even Marty Robbins.
So it's continual learning for me. It's kind of this this huge wealth of music that I'm still digging into and I'm always excited about. You know, what struck me about country, I'm as you can tell from my accent, I grew up in New Jersey, northern New Jersey, right by New York City, and I was a huge Springsteen fan. And when he started dipping into the river, when he started dipping into Drive All Night, he was trying desperately in Nebraska, I think, to become a country artist, to become Johnny Cash almost. You hear it clear as days in the country.
You know, you hear it. You hear it. You can hear it. You can tell he was a big Christopherson fan. You just hear it in the lyrics.
Yeah, he he can take it from the same well, that classic American music, you know, whether it be Country or roots, or whatever you want to call it, he definitely knew what was going on. The first time folks heard him at the Beacon Theater come out alone, and I don't know what compelled him to do this. I think he just needed to shed the band and say, I want folks to hear my songs. And I wanted to hear the character-driven nature of the narratives, because I don't think a lot of people had understood that so many of his songs were driven by the narrative of a character that he was playing in the song, which is a real true in country tradition.
Well, you know, I think with country, it all begins with a song. I mean, it's always less about the track than it is the lyrics themselves. The lyrics are always number one.
Well, I think maybe country ho has the highest regard with lyrics. Rock and roll, you can go, I want to rock and roll a night party every day, and people love it, and they feel it. A country, you gotta have a narrative. It's more about the narrative than it is about the party. Maybe they're partying it too, but there's definitely a story.
There's always a link. And I think. The song craft is is very high. It's very high form song craft.
So You know, they're they're great country songs that take you a while to digest and figure out all the lyrics, so. You know, I think maybe as I'm getting older I I love country music more and more because I need more than just A melody. I need it all, you know, at this point. What do you bring? What is the talent you bring to the equation that artists say, I gotta work with Cub?
Well, first of all, I think you lie your way into it 'cause if I don't know if there's a producer school you know, I was in bands and we worked with producers and I watched them work and I thought, Man, that's the life, you know? It's you know, you get to Kind of it's it's basically a director of music. You know, you you help pick the songs, you help you're kind of a a friend, a therapist, you know, you're an encourager. And in some times, some instances you're the writer. You know, you're an artist with them or you're You know, the musician on the record.
So there's kind of a lot of hats, and it really changes every single project. You know, there's no Set and stone method for my job. It's kind of, you know, you learn as you go and make it up as you go. But yeah, it's hard for people to understand what a producer is, and I really honestly don't understand either. Good.
And then hopefully you never figure it out. I think that's the key because then you'll start probably having a cookie-cutter approach, which I think is the death of heart and the death of a great pr production mind. I know it's true in acting and directing. Yeah, I agree. I don't think one suit fits all either.
Everything's gotta change. Everything's gotta evolve. And Me personally, I would get really bored if I went there and copied every technique I used on every record. It wouldn't be a very fun job. Then it would become work.
I like for it to. be this you know kids imagination land where you walk in and everything's possible and there's no limits and and um i don't i don't like rules too much you know And you've been listening to Dave Cobb share his story. And my goodness, what a story it is. Growing up in the South, moving to LA, a hard rock fan. And then, well, he discovers country through a guy named Shooter Jennings, the son of Wayland Jennings.
When we come back, more of our conversation with one of the great producers in America, Dave Cobb. Here on our American stories. Lee Habib here, and I'd like to encourage you to subscribe to Our American Stories on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get our podcasts. Again, Please subscribe to the Our American Stories podcast on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, or anywhere you get your podcasts. It helps us keep these great American stories coming.
That feeling when you're trying to build your credit and it's like over and over again. Good news! Chase Credit Journey can help you with a personalized score improvement plan provided by Experian, so when you still need that credit built. You have the guidance you need. You can even get a Chase Secure banking account with no monthly service fee if you're 17 to 24 years old.
Hallelujah! This tool is for education purposes and doesn't guarantee you'll reach your credit score goal. The score you receive uses Vantage Score 3.0 model and may not be the model used by lenders. Member FDIC. Liberty has never been just a word to we Americans.
It has guided every one of our endeavors for the past 250 years. And now it takes form in a new way. The 2026 Semi-Quincentennial Coin and Metal Program from the United States Mint. It celebrates the founding ideals that have long shaped our coinage. Available one year only, this historic collection features new coin designs, limited edition releases, and reissues.
Shop new official coins at usmint.gov forward slash semi-q. That's usmint.gov/slash S-E-M-I-Q. Spending time outdoors, then let's talk about skin cancer. Non-melanoma skin cancers, or NMSCs, including basal cell carcinoma and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, are the most common cancers in the U.S. and can become harder to treat if left undetected.
That's why sun protection and timely detection matter. Our sponsor, Regeneron, is raising awareness about advanced NMSCs. Learn more and take the pledge to see a dermatologist annually at let's get real about skincancer.com. You've watched racing.
Now get behind the wheel. At Kaizen Autosport Racing School at VIR, professional race drivers teach you how to drive faster, safer, and with more confidence on one of America's legendary racetracks. Never driven on track, we'll get you started. Already experienced, we'll take you to the next level. Ready to race?
Earn your competition license and learn real wheel-to-wheel racecraft. Stop watching, start driving. Go to racevir.com. That's racevir.com. Fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space.
At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at $50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, the Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list. Shop Labor Day Savings at the Home Depot and gear up for fall projects with the right tools to keep your projects moving. And we return to our American stories and to our conversation, my conversation, with Dave Cobb at the moment that The Wanderer was about to be released. This is Chris Stapleton's breakthrough record.
Here, our conversation continues. Recently, you know, a couple of Grammys Best Country album, Chris Stapleton's The Traveler, it's just exquisite. David, it feels like a record you always knew but never heard before. It feels like it's almost a part of the DNA of the culture already, and that's such a hard thing to stumble on. How did that record come to be?
How did you get to know Chris? I was working with his band Rival Sons from California while I was living in Los Angeles, and they played me Steel Drivers. Chris Dickelton's previous band. through an iPhone and man, it just shut me down. I mean, you just don't hear voices like that, you know.
I'm always drawn to that, whether it be, you know, Greg Allman or Rod Stewart, that kind of raspy, you know, powerhouse kind of voice.
So, you know, he was on my radar then and it took me years to actually get a chance to work with him. Uh his manager called and said he wanted to meet. He had heard uh Sergio Simpson album and wanted to get together.
So uh we got together and we pretty much talked about guitars and cars and just hit it off. And it felt like, you know, the same way y y you said that the record feels like in any record you've always had or heard, I felt like he was a friend that always had, you know. And so then we went in the studio and and somehow the label is really amazing and and and let us go wild in the studio and really trusted us. And I think It started off, you know, well, let's cut six songs and see how it goes and When the time we had booked for the six songs uh was done, we we'd finished the whole record. And so the label came by and heard it and were completely supportive and just really you know, it was an amazing time where it just felt like we were goofing off and having fun and we weren't working.
It was just pure art and pure you know, heart and soul under these days. And we came out with with the record that you hear now. You know, there's a part of the Wall Street Journal article that talked about your love of first takes and spur of the moment performances. And we had done an hour in Frank Sinatra. And it was interesting.
Sinatra liked to go into the studio, we learned, from him himself, once, twice the most. And this is back when there were 70 or 80 set orchestras in a room and they were union orchestras. And after that, he'd leave. He'd say, I don't want to do a fifth take or a sixth take.
Well, I think I can get away with that because of the caliber of these art these artists and their voices, you know, and their and their songwriting. You know, if it was if if I didn't have Chris Dapleton singing, it it may take fifty takes and never be as good, you know? Or Sturgil or Isbel or any of these people. I mean, they're they're really talented and they're really good.
So I think I'm really fortunate to have worked with people that just already have a God-given talent. And you're right. After you go back past a few takes with them, I mean, their mind's on to something else. They all have really active imaginations and c and creative minds.
So you gotta capture it while they're really excited about it. But I do think I have an a huge advantage because those guys are just so naturally talented. They allow us to get away with doing one or two takes, you know? Do you think something's happening? I mean, my sister's a professional writer.
Her husband produced all kinds of big hip-hop records, Naughty by Nature and Queen Latifah's records. And they both, in the 90s and the 80s and the 70s, people both hated labels, but loved labels. And then one day the labels sort of, at least for a lot of parts of the dimension of music, started to lose their influence with the sort of YouTubization of music and the downloads. But the AR guy is just so important. And we did an hour on Ahmed Ertigan, and what a life he had.
One of my heroes, Atlantic, yeah. One of my heroes. Talk about the labels. Is there sort of a rebirth of the label? I feel like it's a really good time with record labels.
I mean, I have Milin Pret with Elector Records, and I got it because I sat with everybody. Atlantic, New York, Atlanta Atlantic and Electra, you know, are the same entity. And uh I did a deal with them because they sat down and they want lifestyle art. They want to find these these spring themes or these artists at last, you know, that Aretha Franklins, you know, Bled Zeppelins. They're they're more interested in the um And kind of the art of music.
And they think, you know, when you make these real honest records, they're going to outlive a two-second pop song.
So. I feel like there's a lot of that kind of opening up. I mean, Traveler was made. For completely artistic purposes, and it's sold really well.
So I think everybody's kind of. Looking and so did so does Georgil Simpson's Meta Modern and so did Jason Usbull. Uh something more than free and southeastern.
So I think there's a a wide open lane for artists. in to to live to coexist with with major labels and indie labels.
So but I do think labels are great, you know, in a lot of ways because y you need support, you need help, you know, if you're the artist, you can't possibly worry about you know, making sure you get all these contracts in and making sure you do all the press and get all the radio lined up and it's just too much to handle.
So I think uh they can be really helpful in that in that degree. And they can also, you know, be great in guiding you to somebody you didn't know. Maybe they hook you up with a producer. That inspires the band to go a certain way or enhances the band.
So, I think we're at a good time with labels. Maybe we're back where it was and. the early seventies where Pink Floyd and Led Depp on And and all these artists were on major labels and had tons of success with it.
So I think I think maybe we're back there when people are kind of gravitating towards something towards something real and something tangible. And the sales numbers are there to support it. I think we have a good alignment with labels now.
Well, and I also think when you have a song like Cover Me Up by Jason Isbel, that's not going to become a number one song. But it's going to be the reason why you follow him down. You're going to follow him down to the ends of the earth. Because he writes music that so deeply connects with you that when he plays it in concert, you can't hear a pin drop. People are moving.
And I love concerts when they're still. And that's when you know you've done something really specific as a writer and a performer. Talk about that. you know, when I did Southeastern with with Isbel, I mean, I was such a huge fan of his prior. Um That's when I really started feeling the sea change.
I mean, it just seemed like. you know, he did it through Thirty Tigers on his own label and And people just came out for it. And I went to the shows, and it was the same thing, like you said, you could hear a pin drop when he did those acoustic songs. Usually, you got to go over to a show and put. Bash people's faces off with loud uptempo songs, get the crowd going.
But it was quite the opposite. I mean, when he played his acoustic songs, everybody felt like it was a sacred moment. And just observed and participated. And it was just this really beautiful moment in music that I think maybe he was the first artist to really kind of. Open this lane that seems to exist now.
You know, I think he was a guy. I think when people on Music Row. We're writing about you know, tailgates, he comes out and he writes about, you know, cancer and just makes everybody think twice lyrically. I think he raised the bar lyrically. Yeah.
And I think he he really did a lot of good. For Nashville and songwriting in general. Talk about the discovery of a great song and what that's like. It's funny. Is Isbel's a really great example.
When we were doing Southeastern, when he came in with the song Elephant, I mean I put them in in my kitchen in my house. I didn't want anybody influencing him. I wanted you to hear the kind of purity of where the song came from. And as he was singing it was coming to the speakers and it felt like My classic record I'd never bought or heard, And it just it drew me in and we all got you know chills and it would bring a tear to your eye that the lyrics from that song and So then after that we added a couple of overdubs to kind of fill it out. That's one of those moments where i And somebody told me, I think I stole this from Rick Rubin.
You know, you know it's right when it feels like a record.
Some things feel like a great song and some things feel good, but then sometimes you'll hear something come the first time and it just feels like a record. That song felt like a record, so. I feel really fortunate to know people like uh like Jason, because, you know, it it makes it great when you walk in the studio and they have these songs done, you know, and make my job really easy. Oh, yeah. You know, pretty much concentrate on where to order dinner at that point.
Yep.
So, uh, yeah, it's rare to hear these caliber songs, but thank god we have a few people out there that are doing it. And you've been listening to a conversation I had with Dave Cobb at about the time that The Wanderer was released. This is Chris Stapleton's breakthrough record. Defied category. It wasn't country.
It wasn't blues. It wasn't southern rock. It was a mixture of all three and a little bit of rock and roll, too. This is a remarkable record of one of the great artists in America. And my goodness, he's worked with them all, including Jason Isbel, we learned.
Isbell, as he put it, raised the bar on writing and raised the bar on what a performance might be like. Instead of just smashing people over the head with rock and roll or heavy sounds, Isbel breaks down that show and it's him and a guitar and you can hear him breathing in the audience. He's that good. The songs are that good. More importantly, what he's writing about is that important.
Music has that ability to do these things with all of us. We've done so many great music stories on this show, but it's guys like Cobb and the writers behind the scenes doing so much of the heavy lifting and the singer-songwriters that he's working with. The Sturgill Simpsons, the Jason Isbels, the Brandy Carlisles, and the Chris Stapletons.
Well, he's very humble when he says all he does is order lunch. There's got to be a lot more of it that talent like this and trust themselves. With his production talents. The story of Dave Cobb, one of America's best record producers, here on Our American Story 74. Liberty has never been just a word to we Americans.
It has guided every one of our endeavors for the past 250 years. And now it takes form in a new way. The 2026 Semi-Quincentennial Coin and Metal Program from the United States Mint. It celebrates the founding ideals that have long shaped our coinage. Available one year only, this historic collection features new coin designs, limited edition releases, and reissues.
Shop new official coins at usmint.gov forward slash semi-q. That's usmint.gov/slash S-E-M-I-Q. Spending time outdoors, then let's talk about skin cancer. Non-melanoma skin cancers, or NMSCs, including basal cell carcinoma and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, are the most common cancers in the U.S. and can become harder to treat if left undetected.
That's why sun protection and timely detection matter. Our sponsor, Regina. Generon is raising awareness about advanced NMSCs. Learn more and take the pledge to see a dermatologist annually at Let's Get RealaboutskinCancer.com. No.
You've watched racing.
Now get behind the wheel. At Kaizen Autosport Racing School in VIR, professional race drivers teach you how to drive faster, safer, and with more confidence on one of America's legendary racetracks. Never driven on track? We'll get you started. Already experienced, we'll take you to the next level.
Ready to race? Earn your competition license and learn real wheel-to-wheel racecraft. Stop watching, start driving. Go to racevir.com. That's racevir.com.
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