This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Spending time outdoors, then let's talk about skin cancer. Non-melanoma skin cancers, or NMSCs, including basal cell carcinoma and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, are the most common cancers in the U.S. and can become harder to treat if left undetected.
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Learn more at intuit.com slash ERP. Yeah. This is Lee Habib, and this is Our American Stories, the show where America is the star and the American people. Coming to you from the city where the west begins, Fort Worth, Texas. Giovanni Rocco went under cover for three years to infiltrate and ultimately take down the New Jersey Mafia family that was the inspiration for the television series The Sopranos.
Here to tell his story is Giovanni Rocco. Let's take a listen.
So I grew up in a city of New Jersey just outside of New York in Hudson County, New Jersey. Bayonne is the city I grew up in. You're talking in the 70s and 80s is when I grew up as a kid in that time. The things that happened in Bayonne, we were unique where we had a strong mafia presence growing up. We had a strong outlaw motorcycle group that was local to the town at the time.
Some of my uncles belonged to that. And I'm a third generation police, so my dad was a very well-respected cop in the Hudson County area. My mom and dad wanted the best for us. They would sacrifice everything for us. And in doing so, my mom struggled.
She was a stay-at-home mom when we were young until we were old enough and she can get a job in a grocery store as a cashier. But they would struggle and they would make ends meet to put us through Catholic school.
So every dime went to putting three of us through Catholic school and private school back then in the 70s and into the 80s. I didn't do well in Catholic school since I think I might have gotten my first detention in kindergarten, not my proudest moments. I think I might have come close to my first suspension in first grade in Catholic school. Just something about me. And the nuns and authority did not rub well.
As a young kid, I was the The black sheep of the family, I guess they call it. It was nothing for me to go to school by the time I made it into my eighth grade years, into high school, to be very careful of who you dated. Because if you wanted to date a certain girl, her dad might have been in prison as a hitman. And it was known. It was very openly known.
Be careful, stay away from her because her dad's getting out on parole sooner. And if he finds out he's dating your daughter, you know, you're dating his daughter, it could be a problem. And then before you know it, you're playing in people's yards, riding your bike and realizing the people that you're around. Yeah, he's a he's a maid guy. As we moved on into high school, I gravitated towards My mom's side of the family had married a couple of outlaw bikers or guys that were connected to some outlaw motorcycle groups.
Predominant, very well known. Again, having that background of knowing my dad had shootouts with these guys at the clubhouse close by. and knowing the stories and then be around them. I knew that was my dad's. That was his Achilles heel.
If I can just be more like those guys, I could be more defiant to my father. And as school went on into my high school years, Now I was just... I'm done. I checked out. I think by.
I tried to uh by that point I tried to sign up for the Air Force on the way home one day where I was in some serious trouble and I was getting suspended every semester I was being suspended for something. and then almost an expulsion letter was going to be sent to the house, and I would miss that letter. You know, that's God looking out and teaching me a lesson and saying, you know, oh, you think you're the smart one. And it kind of bit me in the butt because in senior year, My U.S. history teacher came to me and knew that I was a kid from the street and understood my language and how to speak to me and one of my best friends.
And he basically called us in and he said, you two idiots, you're not graduating. You two morons, and he would literally sit there and kind of talk to me like my dad did. They'd play football together and they grew up together. He goes, It's up to me whether you two morons graduate.
So, what we're going to do is. You're gonna buy me a bottle of Johnny Walker blue and you're gonna buy me a bottle of Johnny Walker black. And I have a beach house down at the Jersey Shore, and I enjoy my drinks in my little tiki hut. And he described it very graphically. And he says, and I enjoy my summers, and I enjoy my very expensive liquor because of idiots like you.
So you'll gift wrap it, you'll bring it to my class, into this class, and he says, and my desk drawer will be open, the door will be unlocked, and you'll come here during cafeteria when nobody's here, and you can slip in, you take the gift wrap box, each of you will put your bottle in there. If your bottle is in there, you'll pass and you'll walk on stage with your friends. If not, CN Summer School. And I'll see you next year.
So of course at that time Johnny Walker, blue and black. They're not in the aisles. You know, this is a very expensive liquor you're talking about.
So they're behind the counter.
So I can't walk in there. Of course, I'm not of age to buy it. I had to go home and throw myself on a sword, embarrassingly, throw myself at my parents' feet. And my mom, being a strong Catholic, she was, and, you know, she doesn't lie, and she holds herself to a high standard. And, you know, we come from very, very strong Catholic backgrounds.
And there she goes. She went and did it, and she talked to my father, and they agreed, and we got it, and boom, there you go.
So I was able to walk the stage with my friends and graduate high school. Problem was I had no direction. And uh a few months after I got through the alcohol thing, They gave a career day and New Jersey Bell Phone Company came in and they gave an aptitude test for employment on the way out if you were a senior.
So, in 1989, I believe it was, into 90, I was working for New Jersey Bell, and here I am again. I start thirsting for adrenaline.
Okay, I can't get it from the street anymore. How am I going to get it from this phone company? But then they tell me there's these two-man areas, and there's the low-income housing projects that nobody would dare go into, where the cops go into in Jersey City, and these areas in Hope Oaken are areas in certain areas of New Jersey where police don't go unless there's two to maybe three squad cars. Two squad cars with four cops to go in and respond to the call, and with the extra car, sits outside and watches the squad cars while the police respond. That's what kind of trouble these places are.
Sign me up. I want in. You're going to pay me extra. You're going to pay me as the New Jersey Bell Phone Company what they call combat pay. I want in.
How do I get it?
So I teamed up with a guy from Texas. And he was just this big old cowboy that came to New Jersey to work, and I teamed up with him. And we'd go in 9 o'clock at night into these areas where gunshots and all kinds of things are running out and ringing out. And it was great. I loved it.
I was making bank. And you've been listening to Giovanni Rocco tell the story of his Catholic upbringing in a tough New Jersey neighborhood, a working-class New Jersey neighborhood, Bayonne, surrounded by docks and waterfronts. And my goodness, surrounded by sketchy, let's just say sketchy people. Lots of mobsters, low-grade, and then, of course, motorcycle gangs and groups. And it was just, well, let's just say it was tough sledding for young Giovanni.
Plus, he really didn't have much of an appetite for any kind of authority, talking about and perhaps even being a bit proud of being in detention by the time he was in kindergarten and first grade. That story about how he got to graduate, well, that just sounds so New Jersey and so Bayonne. And by the way, I grew up not far from these neighborhoods, so I know exactly what he's talking about. When we come back, more of Giovanni Rocco's story. Here.
on our American stories. Lee Habib here, and I'd like to encourage you to subscribe to Our American Stories on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get our podcasts. Any story you missed or want to hear again can be found there daily. Again, please subscribe to the Our American Stories podcast on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, or anywhere you get your podcasts. It helps us keep these great American stories coming.
Spending time outdoors, then let's talk about skin cancer. Non-melanoma skin cancers, or NMSCs, including basal cell carcinoma and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, are the most common cancers in the U.S. and can become harder to treat if left undetected. That's why sun protection and timely detection matter. Our sponsor, Regeneron, is raising awareness about advanced NMSCs.
Learn more and take the pledge to see a dermatologist annually at let's get real about skincancer.com. Upgrade to Elite Checking from America's Christian Credit Union and earn up to 4% APY, plus everyday perks and access to your paycheck up to 2 days early with early pay. Don't settle. Choose checking that rewards you and aligns with your values. Visit America's ChristianCU.com forward slash iHeart.
Minimum balance of one cent required to earn advertised APY. Early pay not guaranteed. APY equals annual percentage yield. Membership eligibility required. And CUA insured.
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And we continue with our American stories, and we continue with Giovanni Rocco sharing his own story coming up on some of the tough streets or tougher streets in New Jersey. Let's pick up where we last left off. When I was Twenty. Going on 21, my dad had called me and said, Yeah, they're given a police job. And it's in Hudson County.
And if you want in, you know, you should take the test. And he knew my background. The chief knew my background. He knew who I was. I played in his yard as a kid.
I saw the things that he was doing as a police officer. I knew he was a strong Marine. He was a great policeman. He was an aggressive policeman. He was a very well-respected man on both sides of the aisle.
On the criminal side, even the mob respected this man.
So when he called my parents' house, my father handed me the phone. I got on the phone with him and he says, Look, Gee. Um Thinking about hiring you, I can make an 11th spot. I would look to hire you if you could tell me that you've changed your ways and you can tell me that you're on a straight narrow and you're going to give me the best that you can give me, I would consider doing this. What do you think?
My response was Yeah, sure. I'll give it a shot. The most disrespectful thing to say to a Marine and a police chief you could possibly say, and he said, That's the best you have for me, I'll give it a shot. And then quickly I puckered up and I said, all right, yes, sir, I'll take the job. I'm very interested and I want it.
And that was it. I walked the beach for a while. I earned my way into a car. But more importantly, when I had showed up for one of my first daytime. tours they gave me.
I went to my locker. and I was greeted by a cop who had chased me around for years as a kid in the street. And I made a sarcastic comment: like, I said hello to him, but I guess the way my delivery was, was not well. And he was a motorcycle cop back then, really big guy. Slammed his locker door shut, literally grabbed me by the throat, pushed me up against the locker, and said, Don't ever talk to me again.
You're a piece of garbage, you don't belong here, and you're not one of us.
So I realized where I stood with these guys, so I had to be real careful on how I moved. But for my dad, he made it very clear: do not ever let me find out. that you put your hands on somebody that's handcuffed. I don't care who they are, what they did. You better respect people.
You better treat people the way you want to be treated. And that's the golden rule that my father raised me and my brothers on. Treat people the way you want to be treated. I never forgot that. And then eventually they came to me early in my career.
They offered me a position in arcotic squad. But it wasn't narcotics, it was Day's vice.
Now Days vice was prostitution, gambling, organized crime. It's not what I wanted. But I wanted my gold shield and I took it and I worked days for a while and I worked my way through that.
So eventually what had happened was one day I decided to kind of go back to my old roots with my uncle Pete. He had built a 77 chopper, a Holly Davidson chopper, and I thought it would be cool if I had ridden it to work one day and took it to work to the precinct. And I'm comfortable enough now, and I'm on the job, and I'm young enough. And I showed up with police pants, a white t-shirt, and a leather jacket, and I had my handgun, my duty weapon, just shoved into my pants. Couldn't get more gangster or more of a douche if you tried.
And as I pull in, I start setting off all the car alarms on the building because they're sensitive alarms. And I see somebody waving their hands, like telling me to cut it off. And as I come out of the shadows, it was my chief. He looks at me. He says, Giovanni.
Whose bike is this? Why is that under the building? He thought we had impounded it. He sees them coming in for work. I said, no, it's my bike.
And it was totally street illegal. No blinkers, no this, no that. It was something an outlaw would ride.
Something a one percenter would ride. And it just offended him big time. And he went up one side, down the other, ripped me a new one, the way I was dressed, the fact that I had this leather vest on, and who did I think I was, and he gave me this job, and he promised me, you know, I promised him and I gave my word to him. And he called me in on a carpet. We used to call it the carpet because he had a carpet under his front desk and you had to stand there in front of it like you were in a grade school.
And he'd be on the phone. And half the time I think he staged these things because he was always tell his secretary, just like my principal did, send him in. And he'd still be on the phone with somebody and he'd make you stand on that carpet for about what felt like forever, but it was only 30 seconds to a minute. Hangs up the phone. Yeah.
So What are you doing with the bike? Do you still have the motorcycle? And he was kind of toying with me a little bit.
So he gave me an opportunity and said, look, if I give you an opportunity to work another cover case that they have going on. Would you do it? And I said, yeah, sure, I'd love to. He says, well, let's talk about it, let's think about it, and I'll get back to you in a few days. And he gave me the opportunity to work some really low-hanging fruit, a couple little layups that were undercover work.
And then eventually what happened was there was a DEA case and they were infiltrating and trying to infiltrate a certain motorcycle group out of New York area. They gave my orders to go in and buy a certain amount of marijuana and some handguns and I totally screwed it up. He gave me a chance to make it right. Long story short, I went back in, I made it right. They gave me an informant.
The informant introduced me and kind of vouched for me. And during that time, the Bureau had come to me. I had a guy who was doing it, he was an undercover agent. and he was doing some dope deals in organized crime. and he was brought in to buy dope off of these kids.
They were in their 30s. And um By that point. I go inside the house and I tell my wife, who was also a detective at the time, she was working sex crimes. And I said, real quick, I got to run down to Atlantic City. I'm going to clean up real fast.
I'm going to run down and have dinner for a couple hours, and I'll be back by, you know, by 11 o'clock at night. I should be home. And of course, she worked on the cover work and she knew that I was not going to be home on time. And she said to me, No, you have to have the kids in the morning. I'm on call tonight for sex crimes with my agency and I start on call at midnight.
So if you're not home by midnight and I get a call, there's going to be a big problem.
So you need to be home because you have the kids in the morning. Ah, don't worry about it. No sweat.
So you can only imagine when I show up down Atlantic City. 9 o'clock turns into 10 o'clock. 10 o'clock turns into 10.30. We're waiting and we're waiting and we're waiting. And I'm not sitting there, and this is not, I'm not putting on an act anymore.
I'm seriously just pissed off that we're waiting this long. Cops wait, right? Drug dealers don't wait. Cops wait. And I'm sitting there watching the Yankee game, and I'm a Yankee fan, so the Yankees are losing, so that's just adding more misery to my night.
I could hear my wife's voice in my ear saying, Midnight, you know, and I'm thinking I'm gonna turn into a pumpkin. Once again, I'm gonna fail my relationship. I'm gonna let her down like I always do, and I'm not gonna be home, I'm not gonna do what I said I was gonna do. And I'm sitting there thinking of all these things.
So by the time this guy shows up hours late. He multiplied like a gremlin and there's maybe now three or four of them there. and there's two of us and we're eating dinner, we're finished dinner. And my colleague Nikki, he had looked at it and he says, hey, I want to introduce you to these guys. I don't need to meet anybody, Nick.
I'm just here to eat dinner, do your thing, and let's get out of here. I don't know what you're here for. I don't even know who they are. But the Yankees are losing, I just want to go home.
So he says, all right. But again, these guys are shooters. They're known as shooters. They have a history of it.
So I have to be on. And as we're watching the TV and I'm watching the Yankees come back. He says what do you think gee? I said what do I think about what? He says well He's got it on him.
You want to do it in the bathroom or you want to do it right here? You want to go outside in the car? I go, what do you have on you? You have something on you. And he says, you know.
The stuff, the powder I brought for him. I said, You have powder on you right now? He says, Yeah. I got it in my pants. Mm-hmm.
And I kinda turned the direction to the undercover. And he knew I was playing my part. I said, really, this is what you do? You put me in his position. With this idiot?
He goes, Relax, G, don't tell me to relax. I don't know this guy. I don't know what you're doing with them like a gangster would do. See, I took everything I learned in the street as a kid and I applied it now to my career. And these are conversations I would watch happen in the pizzerias or happen in the restaurants when I was washing dishes and stuff.
This guy here, and you want to do a drug deal in a bathroom like you're a 16-year-old girl in high school. And I'm belittling this guy now. And he looks at me and he's a serious guy, and he's looking at me like, you know, he'd like to reach across the table. You waste my time. You waste, I eat dinner.
You were supposed to be here for dinner. Where were you? He says, well, I told him my truck broke down, this and that. Yeah, he says, well, I I could order something. I could eat.
I haven't eaten all day. You're not eating at my table. Here, you want something to eat? And I have pile of motor was all melted, ice cream with uh... Apple pie, and it's all melted and liquidy.
I said, Here, you could eat that. That's what you get for showing up hours late and leaving me sitting here and my friend sitting here. Want to do like a 16-year-old girl in a bathroom. And I'm just talking out loud, like a psychopath would do, like I used to see in the street. specifically the gangsters and the mobsters, I said.
And you've been listening to Giovanni Rocco. telling the story of his entry into his life. As a cop. He was destined for two lives. One a criminal and the other a cop.
I mean, there's sometimes a fine line between the two. And here he is getting baptized by fire. Quickly, it turns out, he's having real run-ins with authority from fellow cops and then also by his own chief showing up, well, like a gangster on his Harley and not well received by his boss. But ultimately, the chief saw something in Giovanni that he liked. That is the kind of guy who might just be able to earn his stripes undercover.
And he gets his first gig, as he put it, in the narcotics and vice squads, prostitution, organized crime, and that border between those parts of criminality. And then that first undercover case. And of all places, Atlantic City, a notorious place for mobsters to do their work in New Jersey. And when we come back, more of this remarkable story. You'll be hearing more from Giovanni Rocco here.
on our American stories. Spending time outdoors? Then let's talk about skin cancer. Non-melanoma skin cancers, or NMSCs, including basal cell carcinoma and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, are the most common cancers in the U.S. and can become harder to treat if left undetected.
That's why sun protection and timely detection matter. Our sponsor, Regeneron, is raising awareness about advanced NMSCs. Learn more and take the pledge to see a dermatologist annually at Let's Get RealaboutskinCancer.com. Upgrade to Elite Checking from America's Christian Credit Union and earn up to 4% APY, plus everyday perks and access to your paycheck up to 2 days early with early pay. Don't settle.
Choose checking that rewards you and aligns with your values. Visit America's ChristianCU.com forward slash iHeart. Minimum balance of one cent required to earn advertised APY. Early pay not guaranteed. APY equals annual percentage yield.
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Just go to indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com/slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.
And we continue with our American stories and with Giovanni Rocco. telling his own story about his life as an undercover cop. Let's pick up where we last left off. They always talked out loud, and I always drew from that. Want to sit here and sit like a girl, whatever.
Hey, sweetheart. I start snapping my finger at the waitress, little Italian girl. I would never in my life, if my mother heard me talk to another female like this, she'd chop my hands off or give me a fat lip. Hey, sweetie, sweetie, come here. You got one of those things, those bags, the bags that you bring the food to get to go.
A to-go bag? I said, Yeah, go get me one of them. And again, I'm playing a character, I'm playing that low-level street. Giovanni, the the Christopher Multasanti. guy.
Yeah, go get me one of those. And she looks at me as if my wife would look at me, or somebody in my family would look at me with that Italian eye and say, I'll kill you, I'll stab you with you. I'll go in the back and get a steak knife and I'll stab you right here. I said, Go ahead, go get me one. She comes back and throws it on the table.
I said, Hey, sweetie, I apologize. Thank you for getting this from me. And I look at him and I go from friendly to just stone cold. I gonna hear. Put her on your hand under the table.
Give it to me under the table and shut up. Don't say nothing. Just reach in your pants and put it in his bag. And he does. And as he's doing it, I look at my partner and I go, I can't believe he did this to me.
You know? And it's the things you say in that world that you have to listen for. I said, for you, for you that I do this. You know, if I go back inside, it's for something that I did, not something you did. I did this.
I put myself back inside. See what I'm saying to this kid is I've been to prison. I'm telling this kid I'm a street guy. I'm telling him that we're serious guys and he's a nobody. I'm trying to paint that picture because I'm trying to survive to make it home to my family.
He gives me the dope. I put it in, I put it in a bag, I take it, and I made it like I put it in a car. I went outside, I gave it to the case agents a block or two away, and I come walking back inside. We wrap that meeting up, and we're done. Like so many other times, of course, this guy here, Jimmy.
He goes back to the neighborhood. He's from North Jersey. specifically Elizabeth, New Jersey. And now he has a story. His story is, and he's going around telling everybody because you have to understand: we're the FBI, we're the federal government.
We have more sources in the street. and more microphones all over the place. that you can't count them. And he goes back. to a specific neighborhood.
where decavacante crime family is very strong. And he starts telling everybody. I just went to Atlantic City last night. I had dinner with these guys. Bruno Scoffo guys, serious guys.
He made up a whole legend for us, a whole story, a whole backstory, kind of building Bona Fides for himself.
So, you know what? Let's just do a couple of deals with it and be done with it. It's real quick, quick and simple. All right.
So, what we did was we agreed that he saw a warehouse full of stolen goods that I had. and it was out of China. And we had a $300 million seizure of counterfeit goods. There was some cigarettes we gave him. I had given him some Timberland boots and some Uggs.
So you can only imagine when people are selling those in the street, especially with union jobs and at union construction sites, when guys from the organized crime groups, they start to see these things. And a guy like Jimmy, who doesn't have two nickels to rub together, now he's selling boots at their sites. They want answers. They want to know who he's doing business with.
So Jimmy explains to a guy named Luigi Oliveri. Luigi Oliveri was a hooked up guy, not a May guy in a decaval-cante crime family. We knew him. He was on our radar. I knew about him for decades.
So he starts to tell me, well, listen, I got a friend Luigi. He wants to meet you. He says that he might want to do business. Would you mind if we introduce you to each other?
So we did that, and I met Louie. And the good thing with Louis was he was always on time. You could set your watch to this guy, and he always had the money. He walked around with a knot of hundreds and peeled off whatever he owed you, and he always had it right there. Very, very different than the characteristics of Jimmy.
Thing was, I needed to hold Jimmy's feet to the fire and I kind of explained to Louie that he owes me this money and I got to collect this money from this kid and maybe you could help me with that. He goes, well, what does he owe you? And I told him and he kind of knew already. And I said, well, I got to get this money. I got to recover this money he owes me.
And, you know, I'm doing some other things that I don't want to talk to you about, but I'm doing some other business with him too, kind of planting the seeds. And I said, but I need to recover this money. He goes, all right, don't worry about it. Listen, he reports to me anyway. Reports to you.
Yeah, he's with me. I'll make it right. Here's what we're gonna do. Tell Jimmy. If he doesn't have your money, he's going to force your hand and you're going to have to go to another family, another crime family, crime family.
And now we're talking crime families? I don't really, I don't know what you're talking about. And again, even though I knew the mob, I had to play dumb. I needed an education for evidence purposes.
So he says to me, clear as day, he says, look, you don't understand what I'm saying? Listen to me. I'm with the Decavacantes. I have no idea what that is. He says, you never heard of decaps?
What a great tape I'm making for the bureau now, right? But the thing was, Jimmy wanted to still do business with me. And if you can imagine now, we're kind of like school kids. And they all have a crush on me, and they all want to date me. and they all want to make money with me, but the thing is, Jimmy now has to trump Louie.
Louis already trumped Jimmy because he's always on time, his money's always good, and he's connected. Jimmy tries to trump Louie, and I meet him in a mall. As I'm there in a meeting, he says to me, My uncle's a soldier. And again, plain stupid. I go.
He's in the army? He goes, no, he's a soldier in the decapacante crime family. My uncle is Charlie Stangle. Doesn't mean anything to me, Jimmy. Is he gonna give you the money you owe me?
Because that's all I wanna hear. Is your uncle gonna give you the money? No, no, no, listen to me. I could go to my uncle and he can give us permission to sell this stuff in the street, and we can do all this, this, and this. Great tape.
I go back to the Bureau, and the Bureau says to me, and the case agents say, This is great. See, the problem is, and the Bureau knew this at the time, Charlie Stango. He is feared. Fear isn't the word I can use to describe the vibration of fear that he sends through the organized crime community. I mean, guys like John Gotti would fear somebody like Charlie Stango.
He is a gangster's gangster, the persona of a gangster. He's in his 70s. As I'm having this conversation with Jimmy, he's being released on parole for murder. An absolute maniac.
So you can imagine as I walk in, you can see in his eyes ice blue eyes, but they black over like a shark's eyes. And uh Sits me down. right next to him, stares into my soul, just looking at me, kept repeating my name. First and last name, Giovanni Gatto. Giovanni Gatto.
Giovanni Gatto. How is that spelled? Two T's? Yeah, and he's just sniffing. And he goes, okay.
Charlie says, okay, I'm going to let you do this meeting. I'm going to let you do this thing in the street. And now he's looking at his nephew. And he says, uh So you see what's happening here, right? I'm vouching for you with Danny.
You embarrass me or you do something, I'm going to let him do what he has to do to you. You understand me? And you can see the hesitation in Jimmy's eyes. He's reached a point or a threshold in his world. and a level of acceptance that his uncle has never given him.
So he goes, you see what I'm doing here, right? Yeah, Uncle I see. No, you don't. And he just belittles him like a sociopath would do. What I'm doing is, I'm putting you with him, and I'm vouching for you.
And me vouching for you is telling them you're good for the money. And if you screw this up and you do something bad, I'm gonna let these guys have you and they're gonna kill you. Period. And that's it. And I don't care if you're my nephew.
Now you do you want that? And of course, what do you think Jimmy says? Yes, I want that. And uh Jimmy was excited. And things are going great.
And once we started making enough money, Jimmy had hit me up and said, Look, go buy another barner phone. I'm going to give you a number. It's my uncle. He wants to talk to you.
So I call him on a burner phone and he says, Yeah, you know, come and see me in Las Vegas. I want you to come out here. We have to have a conversation.
So, you're going to forget Louie. You're going to sell a Louis. You're not going to be with Louie's crew or anything like that. You're going to come under me and you're going to answer to me and you're going to start reporting to me on a daily basis. And you've been listening to Giovanni Rocco telling one heck of a story.
As only he can tell it, this language of his, this mastery of the Gab, the gift of gab. and his credibility as a wise guy.
Well, it wasn't fake. He had earned it as being a wise guy himself of sorts, not a mobster, but man, he was around them. He knew how they spoke, how they talked, how they walked, and thus that made him a perfect. Undercover cop. Just listening to him takes you back to the real specificity and brilliance of the sopranos, where those street corners came alive, those pork stores, and the places where the Italian, second and third generation Italians hung out and just shot the bowl together and lived that life.
The life of, well, not working very often. And when the work came, well, it was ugly, it was dirty. And it was the life that these guys chose when we come back. More of Giovanni Rocco telling New Jersey story, Soprano style, on our American stories. Spending time outdoors, then let's talk about skin cancer.
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This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And we continue with our American stories and with Giovanni Rocco, who's by now an undercover agent for the FBI, infiltrating the northern New Jersey rackets, the northern New Jersey mafia, which was perfectly captured in the Sopranos as someone who grew up in and around those neighborhoods. And my goodness, those neighborhoods included Newark and Jersey City and Hoboken and Elizabeth. Let's pick up with Giovanni Rocco, where we last left off. And my relationship with Charlie from that point on has now exploded.
It has now become a father and son relationship, not just an associate relationship. I am out in Vegas all the time. I'm going back and forth and eventually he does stick his hands in my pocket. I have to start kicking up and I have to start, you know, I know the money's going towards organized crime. I'm kicking it up to him.
He's explaining that he's a captain. He's explaining to me that he wants to bring me in on this thing. He's explaining his status in the organized crime world and with the family of the decafs. He's explaining to me who the bosses are, how the administration works, the inner workings of it. He has given me a tutorial of tutorial.
And uh I go home every time I can get home. I'm trying to be home and I'm trying to balance my criminal world and my crime family with my real family. And it was a disaster. My wife said to me, It's going to end terrifically for us. You know, her law enforcement brain is much smarter than mine.
You should stop doing what you're doing. How can I stop doing what I'm doing? I'm all in here. I'm in. This is the best work I've ever done.
I'm committed to this and I'm addicted to it. I'm not leaving this. Fast forward, some things happen throughout the case. where I was at a soccer game for my daughter and I took the weekend off. And you can only imagine here I am in board shorts, flip-flops, and I look nothing like Giovanni Gatto, and I'm Giovanni Rocco for the weekend.
And I'm at my daughter's game, and up walks an associate from the Gambino crime family. And here I am with my family. I'm in New Jersey. I don't have kids in my underworld.
So when I had flanked him and came around, I came from his side. And I yelled his name. And I said, Gooms, as a sign of affection, gooms, gooms. A looks Giovanni. Yeah.
And he says, uh What are you doing here? I said, what do you mean we aren't doing it? I mean, for soccer, come here. And as I go in for the kisses, my wife sees this and my wife knows something's up and thank God she did because we always had a plan of escape plan, whether it's on her side or my side, how to get out of something. She grabs my kids and wrangles them up.
I mitigated it well. I pulled a story out of my And I walked away and I left the whole field. I just walked and I finally called my wife and I said, Look, I gotta get home. Obviously, I can't come back. She knew that.
And I heard the excitement in her voice and the stress in her voice, and she was like, And I said, just maintain your composure, relax. She goes, no, you don't understand. His daughter that came up and said hello to you. She's playing against our daughter in the next game. And she is the first time they had our surname, our legitimate name across her back of her jersey.
I said, all right, relax. Just... Maintain your composure. Just get through this. Send my father.
He has his car. Just tell him to come pick me up. I'm walking on the side of the road. He'll pick me up and bring me home. From that point going forward, we realized as a family it wasn't good for me to come home anymore.
I would fly out to Vegas regularly. It went really well.
So so well that Charlie decides that he's going to go above and beyond. And he's going to go on record with me, with the family, with the administration. Where it's hearli, let it be known from now on, Giovanni speaks from me. When you speak to Giovanni, you're speaking to me through Giovanni. What I witnessed was, I was invited that day to the pork store, to Satriel's.
And as I come around a corner with my Cadillac Escalade, he sees me. And I look out the window and there's the central casting of Sopranos all decked out in their suit jackets and their leisure, you know, they're decked out. They're there for a meeting. It's the powerhouse, it's the administration, it's the underboss, it's other captains, there's people from the neighborhood who have come out to pay their respects, guys from the family are there and they're all waiting outside. It went off without a hitch.
He started building a crew for me. I had about six guys reporting to me on behalf of Charlie, and then one day he decides he's going to put his son Anthony under me. When I went and met Charlie at a high-end restaurant, I celebrated, I had a really good score, asked him if I wanted to go out to dinner. And in that dinner, there was a moment of trust there that he had started sharing about the administration's conversations and sharing me about Louie. And I was like, well, yeah, you know, so what's the deal with him?
And then he explains the administration is not happy with him. And therefore, the administration decided that it's time for Louis to go. I said, really? A guy that you know your whole life, this kid grew up in this thing. Like, you know, you're just gonna.
You just gonna kill him? Yeah, yeah, he's disrespectful. Bosses all got together and decided that it's time for him to go. But I sat down and they told me what the plan was and I told them that you would do it. You see why you got a problem with that?
Very, very aggressive. I said, no, I don't have a problem at all. And um Yeah, Charlie Charlie looked at me and you know I love you. You know, the I love you started coming out from all kinds of people. We finished up at the house and again my last conversation was in his house.
And I challenged him and I said, Again, I gotta ask you, Charles, it's not that I'm not gonna do this, but I'm worried about how it leaves me. He grabs the remote and turns it up. He's listen. You get me. I see what he's saying, but the investigator in me, I have to get him to verbalize that.
I don't know what you're saying. And I grabbed the remote. And I lower it down to where it's decibels where you can hear us talk. I said, no, I don't. He goes, listen to me.
Yeah. This gets done in November. I go up. When I go up, you go up.
Okay? They're going to open up the books, and that's that. In November, I'm off parole. Once I'm off parole, I'm going up. I could be number two.
And he's trying to explain to me he's going to be made either an underboss or a conciliatory or something. And there was whispers of that.
So I said, so wait a minute. I'm getting napped. He goes, yeah, that's why I'm telling you not to worry. What do you think I'm saying to you? I'm going to propose you and you go up.
I said, oh, that changes thing altogether. That's a beautiful thing. He says, yeah, okay, bang. And that was it. I say my goodbyes.
I got to go. I was feeling it. Like, you know, I said my goodbyes, then my final goodbyes, and I had to be real careful not to get emotional, not to get, like, you know. Upset or shaken or sweaty or clammy. And I said, All right, give me a hug.
I'll see you later. And he says, All right, come on, I'll walk you out. I walk you out to the garage. And he's excited. He's like a little kid who's standing in a garage, his shoulders are bouncing.
He's bouncing. He's all quirky, and he's like, this is good. Like, yeah, I can't wait. I said, yeah, I know, I know, I know. I can see it.
You're excited. You're crazy. You're a madman. He's like, I know, I know, but I wish I could be there with you. I really do.
I said, all right, he goes, listen, take a couple of bottles of water. It's, you know. You're going to be dying of thirst. What time's your flight? Call me when you get there, all right?
I said, Well, I'm not gonna kill him as soon as I get there, child. He goes, No, I'm asking you. She said it's snowing. I want to make sure you got home okay. Just call me and make sure you tell me you landed all right.
I mean, with the snow and everything, you're flying. If you get delayed or whatever, I don't care about that. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about you getting home safe. I said, okay, so.
The next morning, everybody got rounded up. Doors got kicked in, so my family's relocated to an undisclosed location. I had to lie to my kids for many years. They just thought we were on a real extended vacation. And when I tell you, we pack bags, my kids had to go through EVAC plans, and my little guy.
Uh he was young at the time, he was a toddler at the time. And imagine at one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning, the bureau is telling you you have to train your son to run to his favorite spot and that's where he will hide in case anything happens. Built a safe room in the house and all kinds of stuff in case to hold off until they can get there. And I was relocated, we were living in one safe house, or we were someplace. My daughter had gotten, she was in grade school, and you know when kids get books, one is mandatory you have to read that the teacher gives you, and then you could pick another book you want to read for the summer.
And she came home with a book, and the name of the book was Greetings from Witness Protection. I was like, why this book? She's like, I don't know, it looked good. It was like a Judy Bloom type of book for little girls. And I was like, well, okay, that's going to be the book.
And a few days later, like, here's Mr. Tough Guy, Mr. Covert Operations, and I could talk my way out of anything. And this little girl comes out of her bedroom like two or three days later. She goes, I'm reading my book.
And my wife and I are standing in the kitchen, and she says, Can I ask you, son, are we in witness protection? When I tell you a shed, I just looked at my wife and I was like, you got this, right? And I ran out. I got to go do something. You take care of this.
And my wife and her true just Italian delivery is just like, well, what do you think? You know, you're not you're not a s you know, you're not a stupid kid. You know, so again, along the way, I've talked to them, and when the time is right, I sit them down and talk to them. But it's hard. When I got unplugged and I retired, I'm like, what do I do now?
I started Doing public speaking for law enforcement and first responder stuff, and then I got into the world of treatment, mental health, and substance abuse.
So it helps me, right? Sharing your stories, having a podcast now. And uh it's at an obby stadium in Las Vegas. It's the same thing in treatment. If you share your stories with somebody else and they can identify with it and realize, oh my god, so I'm not weak.
I'm just not processing the trauma and you can help them get through it. Know the analytical part, I try to empower everybody when I do my presentations. And look, I'm gonna tell a story of an undercover world, but You know, whatever your job is, whatever your function is, just apply it to your purpose. Whatever your skill set is, apply what I'm saying to your skill set, you know.
So hopefully it encourages them.
Somebody along the way said something that struck a nerve in me. And now it's just a pay-it-forward kind of thing. It doesn't matter how much money you make, sometimes that's the reward, that's the payment. And a terrific job on the production, editing, and storytelling by our own Greg Hengler. And a special thanks to Giovanni Rocco.
and also the Mob Museum in Clark County, Nevada. Giovanni is the author of Giovanni's Ring, My Life Inside the Real Sopranos. One day the family's in a safe house with a safe room inside the safe house, all to infiltrate the mob and my goodness, getting that close to a captain and then to somebody who would one day be an underboss.
Well, that's the gold standard for this kind of work, the story of Giovanni Rocco. here on Our American Stories. Spending time outdoors, then let's talk about skin cancer. Non-melanoma skin cancers, or NMSCs, including basal cell carcinoma and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, are the most common cancers in the U.S. and can become harder to treat if left undetected.
That's why sun protection and timely detection matter. Our sponsor, Regeneron, is raising awareness about advanced NMSCs. Learn more and take the pledge to see a dermatologist annually at Let's Get RealaboutskinCancer.com. Upgrade to elite checking from America's Christian Credit Union and earn up to 4% APY, plus everyday perks and access to your paycheck up to two days early with early pay. Don't settle.
Choose checking that rewards you and aligns with your values. Visit America's ChristianCU.com forward slash iHeart. Minimum balance of one cent required to earn advertised APY. Early pay not guaranteed. APY equals annual percentage yield.
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