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Stop it. This is Lee Habib, and this is Our American Stories, the show where America is the star and the American people, coming to you from the city where the West begins. Fort Worth, Texas. One of the greatest controversies to come out of World War II was whether the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan was necessary to bring about the war's end. Here to tell the story is Ken Lecourt.
Host of the popular YouTube channel Elephants in Rooms. Let's take a listen. It is an atomic bomb. It is a harnessing of the basic power of the universe. The force from which the sun draws his power has been loosed.
against those who brought war to the Far East. All war is a crime, arguably. But the best thing you can do in a war is to end it. Let there be no mistake, we shall completely destroy Japan's power to make war. Hmm.
One In the early hours of August 6th, 1945, the world changed forever. An American bomber dropped a single bomb over Hiroshima, Japan. It unleashed a force the world had never seen. And in seconds, the entire city was destroyed. Buildings vanished.
100,000 people died. It was the most horrific weapon ever used on humanity, and three days later the United States did it again. The question is why? Why the second bomb within a relatively short amount of time? Was it necessary, or would Japan have surrendered after realizing the devastation of the first attack?
Was it really about scaring the Soviet Union? We'll look at the layers of strategy, hope, fear, and anger in the last hours of World War II. The United States was slow to enter the war. The country was still in an isolationist mood, still bitter about World War I, which killed over 100,000 Americans.
Now, I've read a lot of history, and I still can't easily explain what World War I was all about, beyond the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand and a whole lot of treaties. What was clear, though, was that it didn't solve any problems, and twenty years later, Europe was at it again. The mood in the U.S. was to let those people deal with it. But everything changed on December 7, 1941, with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
It killed almost 2,500 Americans and instantly united a divided nation. Within days, hundreds of thousands of Americans volunteered for the military, with some enlistment centers staying open 24 hours a day. There were stories throughout the country of guys being rejected for service and then killing themselves out of disappointment. And fighting this war against the Nazis in Japan, Americans didn't see it as a bunch of archdukes fighting over some disputed land. As America plunged into the Second World War, this was seen as a fight against clear-cut villains, tyranny, oppression, and a darkness that threatened to engulf the world.
And after years of bitter fighting, the U.S. had turned the tide against Japan. Massive bombing raids pounded Japanese cities, factories, military installations, laying the groundwork for an invasion. Japan was on the losing path, but America's path to victory was going to be bloody. We should look at the last major battle, the Battle of Okinawa, because it gave a grim forecast of what an invasion of mainland Japan would actually cost.
It was a rugged island and a stepping stone to the Japanese mainland. The battle was a glimpse into hell. 13,000 Americans killed, 70,000 wounded. For the Japanese, almost the entire garrison of over 100,000 men fought to the death. Another 100,000 civilians on the island were killed, many by mass suicide encouraged by the Japanese military.
America's island hopping strategy was met with fanatical defense. Every battle came at a horrific price, showcasing the Japanese determination to fight to the last man for their homeland. Operation Downfall, the plan to finish off the war, they estimated American casualties from 220,000 to several million, and estimated Japanese military and civilian casualties from the millions to the tens of millions. Against that backdrop of slaughter and the promise of even bloodier invasion was the Manhattan Project. It was the greatest scientific gamble of wartime, costing the equivalent of $30 billion and used 130,000 workers.
Officials hoped it'd be more than just another weapon, but one that would end the war. President Roosevelt had hoped the bomb could be used against Germany, whose scientists were also working on nuclear weapons, but he died about two weeks before Hitler killed himself. And it wasn't until he became president that Harry Truman even learned about the Manhattan Project. Before they had working bombs, officials debated how they would use them.
Some of the Manhattan Project scientists argued for a demonstration over a desolate area, but that was rejected over concerns that it wouldn't be convincing enough, or that a dud might embolden Japan even more, or that they might even move POWs to where the bomb might explode. Dropping multiple bombs was initially proposed a year beforehand by Rear Admiral William Purcell, who thought that two or more bombs would be required to shock the Japanese at a surrender. The first one would show the bomb's power, and the second would let Japan know that the U.S. had a stockpile that could easily destroy their entire country. It was all theoretical, though, until President Truman got word that the Trinity explosion in New Mexico was a success, and that the U.S.
was a nuclear power. He'd only been president for three months.
Now, by all accounts, Truman made the decision to use the bombs relatively quickly and decisively. He never wavered or publicly questioned that decision in his entire lifetime. In fact, Truman's go-ahead order for nuclear bombs didn't even get into the details of how to use them. They didn't even require the military to get approval for later bombings. Truman wrote in his diary, This weapon is to be used against Japan between now and August 10th.
I have told the Secretary of War, Mr. Stimson, to use it so that military objectives and soldiers and sailors are the target and not women and children. Even if the Japs are savages, ruthless, merciless, and fanatic, we, as the leader of the World for Common Welfare, cannot drop that terrible bomb on the old capital or the new. He and I are in accord. The target will be a purely military one.
Nevertheless, the vast majority of deaths in Hiroshima were civilians. And you've been listening to Ken LeCourt tell the story Of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and giving us a context for all of it and in riveting fashion. The numbers were clear. These were the estimates of lives to be lost if we kept going, the Americans, not just our lives, our men, when we come back. More of the story.
A horrible and important story. Of the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima here on our American stories. Lee Habib here, and I'd like to encourage you to subscribe to Our American Stories on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get our podcasts. Any story you missed or want to hear again can be found there daily. Again, Please subscribe to the Our American Stories podcast on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, or anywhere you get your podcasts.
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Let's continue with the story. After the bombing, there was shock and confusion within the Japanese high command. A city's instant obliteration was unprecedented, and a breakdown of communication with Hiroshima also slowed information down. They first didn't believe that the U.S. had the technical ability to build and deliver an atomic weapon until they sent scientists to Hiroshima who confirmed it.
Truman announced it to the world. A short time ago, an American airplane dropped one bomb on Hiroshima and destroyed its usefulness to the enemy. In their present form, these bombs are now in production, and even more powerful farms are in development. It is an atomic bomb. The United States continued its tactic of dropping leaflets over cities to speak to the citizens, and now they told them about the atomic weapon.
The leaflets warned that the U.S. had the most destructive explosive ever devised by man, and told the Japanese to evacuate their cities. US radio broadcast a similar message into Japan every 15 minutes, stating that more cities would be destroyed. But Japan hadn't been defeated in 2,000 years, and they weren't going to give up easily. In the Japanese Supreme War Council, some advocated surrender, while others argued to continue the fight.
They hoped to hold out until the ground invasion began and inflict so many casualties that they'd get a better settlement that might leave their government in power. The U.S. also intercepted a message from Admiral Toyota, who believed that no more than one or two more bombs could be prepared quickly. He argued for a fight to the last man. The American general saw no reason to wait.
Nagasaki was destroyed three days later.
So why that second bomb? Why so quickly? The stated reasoning from Truman and military leaders has been consistent and clear. They say they wanted to end the war quickly, likely saving hundreds of thousands of American and Japanese lives. None of Truman's generals advised against using the bombs, although later some would express regret.
Admiral Bull Halsey said later that the bomb was an unnecessary experiment. They had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. Truman's Chief of Staff, Admiral William Leahy, first predicted the bomb would be a dud, then after the war said it was of no material assistance. Admiral Nibitz and President Eisenhower also criticized its use again after the fact. During the war, though, the concept of shock and awe ruled the day.
America had only two nuclear weapons. It had never dropped one from a plane, and one of the designs had never been tested at all. They believed they'd need a massive psychological blow before the Japanese would even consider surrendering.
Now, one theory that became more popular in recent years is that the second bomb was to show the world, especially the Soviet Union, the full power of the U.S. arsenal. U.S. relationship with the Soviets was breaking down after the fighting in Europe stopped, and there was a fear that the Soviet expansion was already underway. Initially, the U.S.
had welcomed Russian help against the Japanese, and Stalin had declared war against Japan two days after Hiroshima. To some, the purpose of the quick timing of the second bomb was to send a clear message to the world of American supremacy and a way to stop the Russians from meddling in post-war Asia.
Now, with the hindsight of the Cold War and the nuclear arm race, that seems somewhat obvious. There was a huge benefit to America having nuclear weapons and a willingness to use them. On the flip side though, there's no evidence of it in historical records. No meeting notes or diaries or memoirs showed that this was a factor. It definitely may have been a bonus factor, but Truman had laid out a plan to defeat Japan as quickly as possible.
The military totally supported that notion and implemented it. And no one wasted any time anywhere. They actually dropped the bomb on Hiroshima just three weeks after the Trinity test. There was also the possibility that Japan could get its own nuclear bomb. It was a concern, but not as worrisome to the top brass as the Nazis' nuclear program had been.
America knew Japan was trying, but it had no real idea of how far along it was, and we still really don't. The Japanese nuclear program was led by Yoshio Nishini, and their nuclear research lab had about 100 researchers.
Now there's a little known story that after Germany surrendered, one of their submarines surrendered in New Hampshire. On board was 1200 pounds of uranium oxide bound for Japan, where they might be able to use it in a nuclear program. There were also two Japanese officers on the German sub, and they were allowed to commit suicide instead of turning themselves in. Later, after Japan's surrender, the U.S. Army found and destroyed five Japanese cyclotrons, which could help convert uranium into a bomb.
But there's another factor that we have to look into as well anger and hatred. There was an increased hatred towards the Japanese that started with Pearl Harbor and increased as Japan fought. You can't understand World War II without a clear idea of how horrific it was, of how horrific Japan was.
Now, they've been pretty mellow recently, but Imperial Japan was a militaristic, racist, murderous regime every bit as bad as Nazi Germany. There was an Asian Holocaust that we hardly ever hear about, but the Japanese military murdered tens of millions of people in China, Korea, the Philippines, Singapore, and Indonesia. In Nanjing, China alone, they killed hundreds of thousands of civilians and buried them in mass graves. There were tens of thousands of rapes. In fact, the Japanese essentially mass-produced rape.
They literally created thousands of comfort stations where their soldiers could rape native women. They say as many as 200,000 women in conquered countries. And they treated their prisoners of war worse than any country in modern times. Torture, starvation. It's estimated that about a third of American POWs died while in Japanese captivity.
That compares to about 4% of POWs dying in Nazi captivity. The Japanese military used live humans as target practice for recruits, bayonetting the ones who weren't killed outright. The human experiments they did at Unit 731, sometimes called the Asian Auschwitz, should have been unthinkable. As bad as anything that a human could think of to do to one another, they did there. You can research that one at your own risk.
And there are hundreds of documented examples of cannibalism of defeated soldiers. These weren't driven by hunger, but by team-building exercises supervised by their commanders. The world hasn't seen war like this in our lifetime, and killing a few hundred thousand Japanese to end it wasn't seen as excessive in 1945. In fact, a 1945 Gallup poll right after the war showed that only 10% of Americans disapproved of the decision to use nuclear bombs. And no one was happier about it than the 140,000 prisoners held in Japan, especially because many of them knew that there was a kill-all order where most or all of them would be executed if an allied invasion got near Japan.
In some cases, those plans were actually carried out, but the Nagasaki bomb and the sudden Japanese surrender prevented most. And even after the Nagasaki bomb, the Imperial Council vote to surrender was a 3-3 tie. It wasn't until the Emperor, for the first time in a generation, abandoned his ceremonial role and personally broke the tie, ordering Japan to surrender. Even then, the next day, some senior officers staged a coup to take control of the government and continue the fight. Despite the odds, they had a sense of honor that placed death above surrender and they wanted to fight it out to the end.
They seized parts of Tokyo and even burned down the home of the prime minister before being defeated.
So Truman and his generals said that they needed that second bomb to bring a timely end to the war. And in retrospect, it looks to me like they were right. Today, far removed from the horrors of that war, it's easy to come to some different judgments and see different motives. But the more I researched it, the more I understood that decision. more that it seemed to make sense.
And a terrific job on the production and editing by our own Greg Hangler. And a special thanks to Ken LeCourt. He's the host of the popular YouTube channel Elephants in Rooms. That's Elephants in Rooms. and go over to that page, you won't stop learning, you won't stop listening and watching.
And what a story that he told here. You know, there's a lot of revisionism, looking back in time at what someone might have done at a different time. But the time was then, and the data and the facts on the ground were rough. Truman had to make a decision and made the decision quickly and simply because he had done the math, he had done the numbers, he had seen the estimates, and he'd seen the nature of the enemy. and seeing the nature of in the end.
Mass suicides, even by women and children. This is a very different kind of fighting culture. And Truman had to do very different things to end the war. And even after the two bombs are dropped, There's still a split vote in the high command. of the Japanese military to carry on until the last man and not just the last man, the important point here is the last man, woman, and child.
And the American people were asked and polled on this. Only 10% disagreed. And that's the poll that matters most. How we feel about it. All these years later, having lost nothing, having paid no price.
I know my mom lost her only brother. And it's removed from me, but I still remember it. The story of the dropping of the nuclear bombs. On Nagasaki and Hiroshima, here. on our American stories.
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Mm-hmm.
