This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean and cold water? Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it. even in cold.
Butter? Yep. Chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce?
Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide Pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new ColdZheim technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be tied. Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously.
On Public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, and now generated assets, which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high-free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index, and lets you backtest it against the SP 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks.
Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com/slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com/slash podcast. Paid for by Public Investing, Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc., member F-I-N-R-A-S-I-P-C. Services by Public Advisors LLC, SEC Registered Advisor.
Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com/slash disclosures. Want to buy your way? Of course you do.
That's why CarMax offers an experience designed just for you. Want to start online, then visit the lot, then go back online? Sure. Want to talk to a real person or chat online? Either works.
Want to take your time and compare all the makes and models? No problem. Then make up some time by filling out the paperwork at home and schedule express pickup or home delivery? Done. When it comes to how you buy, CarMax puts you in the driver's seat.
Want to drive? CarMax. Delivery restrictions apply. See CarMax.com for details.
So you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but you don't. You just need GoDaddy Arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, and as an actor, I'm an expert in looking like I know what I'm doing, even when I don't. and I like the sound of starting my own business, Walton Goggins, Goggle Glasses.
But I'm an actor. I don't know what I'm doing. I needed help. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar.
I didn't even realize I needed a social media calendar. Go Daddy Arrow will take your idea that sounds good and make a business that looks like you know what you're doing. Go to Ero can get your business up and running in minutes. You know what that sounds like? It sounds like a plan.
Get started at go daddy.com slash arrow. That's godaddy.com slash a i r o This is Lee Habib and this is Our American Stories. And we tell stories about everything here on this show, from the arts to sports and from business to history and everything in between, including your stories. Send them to ouramericanstories.com. They're some of our favorites.
One of the most successful blackjack teams in America is made up, surprisingly, of Christians. Here to tell the story are two of the winningest players, Colin Jones, founder of BlackjackApprenticeship.com. and the player dubbed the most notorious card counter in America. David Jury. Here's David.
When I was maybe eight or ten years old, my father was a pastor of a church and they were doing a big bonfire behind the church. And it was one of these events where you're supposed to bring your rock records or your, you know, anything that is causing you to stumble and you throw it in the fire and give a little speech. And so I was an eight or ten year old kid and I said to my parents, what are we bringing to this fire? Because I want to throw something in it, you know? And they're like, well, we're the pastor.
We don't have anything to throw in the fire. I'm like, oh, come on.
So we went all over the house. And one of the things we found in the back of a pencil drawer was a single playing card. And they said, well, okay, you can throw this in the fire. This represents gambling. And at the fire, you know, it was my time and my dad spoke and said, you know, talked about gambling and I'm throwing this card in the fire.
Okay. I'm Colin, and I've been a card counter for almost 20 years, and I'm here with my good friend David. I'm David, and I've been a card counter for I guess about 15 years. And for me, card counting started when I had just graduated from college with a math degree and not really any ambition. And I was volunteering at a Bible camp, and a friend, Ben, was up there.
And he's like, hey, Colin, you're a math guy. Check out this book I'm reading, and it was called Professional Blackjack, written by Stanford Wong, who is a mathematician, and it broke down the math behind card counting and blackjack. I thumbed through and I thought, well, I'm a math guy. I could probably do this. From there, I went to substitute teaching, which is the most boring thing you can do with a math degree.
You're basically babysitting high school students. And on the days I didn't get called to substitute teach, I convinced my newlywed wife for me to take $2,000 of our savings and try this whole card counting thing at the local casinos. Here in Washington State, we have these like bowling alley casinos and strip mall casinos, and they don't have slot machines or anything. It's like you're going into a 7-Eleven with about 10 table games. And I trained way too little.
I didn't know enough about card counting, but I went for it and I just got stupid lucky. Like the first two days, I doubled my $2,000 to $4,000. And I'm buying a bottle of wine for my wife and I, saying, Hey, this is easy money. This is great. And then I started losing.
Day after day, like slowly, kind of back and forth. And every day I'm calling Ben and I'm like, hey, what do I do in this situation? You know, how many spots do I play? What if someone jumps into the table? But he kind of got lonely doing the card kind of thing on his own.
And so we combined his $7,000 with my $4,000. And then all of a sudden, we had $11,000 to be playing Blackjack Way. You were 11,000 heirs. Yeah, we were. Yeah, five figures.
And we just started grinding. And of course, you know, he helped fix my game. The luckiest thing that could have happened was when he was playing at a casino, this was before he and I teamed up. He was playing at a casino, and he gets noticed by this guy that was on a national blackjack team, like the most feared card counting team in America, spotted him and was like, hey, this kid's not bad. But you know, there's some things he could fix.
And so they kind of exchanged phone numbers, and the guy was kind of trying to recruit Ben to be on his team. And that resulted in Ben not really joining their team. He did one trip with them, but in getting his skills really refined, which was what I needed because I thought I was good and I wasn't. Ben was able to refine my skills. And so then we have this $11,000 and we're just grinding.
We're going to all our local casinos every day. And if I didn't get called to substitute teach, I was working, you know, kind of nine to five gambling, essentially. And pretty quickly, we started winning and we added a third friend, Jeff, and the three of us grinded and we grew that $11,000 into about $100,000 over three or four months. Joined up with a fourth guy that we spotted at a casino. That when I first saw him playing, I thought he was a drug dealer because he had this satchel full of $500 chips and he's just betting like crazy at the casino.
And then we start watching how he's betting. It was like, hey, this guy's a card counter too.
So the four of us We start playing, and over the course of two years, we won about $500,000 playing. But as many small businesses, especially with 20-something-year-old guys, it kind of. You know, the relational, the personality, character issues started to come about, and Ben and I decided to split off and get into real estate.
So we figured we're smart enough to beat casinos, we're definitely smart enough to beat the real estate market. Unfortunately, we weren't. And what I tell people is, we were investing at blackjack and we were gambling at real estate. And we go and we lose something like $400,000 on $3 million worth of properties that we had leveraged to the hilt right when the housing market crashed. And we didn't know what to do, so we pulled out all the equity we could, and we went back to the only honest thing we knew to do, which was to play blackjack.
We go back to the casinos and it starts working again. And the two of us, you know, very quickly, we've got a couple hundred thousand. And that's where people like David came in because we're thinking, we don't wanna be in the casinos, but we know how to do this and we can teach people. And some friends from our churches started approaching us saying, hey, Can I play Blackjack on your Blackjack team? And that's where things started to really get interesting.
And you're listening to Colin Jones, founder of BlackjackApprenticeship.com. and the player dubbed the most notorious card counter in America. David Drury. And it seems counterintuitive to think there'd be card-counting Christians. But that's what makes the story so alluring.
And I'm a Christian and I love, well, it's one of the first things I tried to teach my daughter, how to throw a spiral, how to card count. and the laws and theories of compounded interest. When we come back, more of Our American Stories and the story of the card-counting Christians here on Our American Stories. Uh Folks, if you love the great American stories we tell and love America like we do, We're asking you to become a part of the Our American Stories family. If you agree that America is a good and great country, please.
Make a donation. A monthly gift of $17.76 is fast becoming a favorite option for supporters. Go to ouramericanstories.com now and go to the donate button and help us keep the great American stories coming. That's ouramericanstories.com. Want to sell your car your way?
Who wouldn't? That's why CarMax offers a car selling experience designed just for you with online and in-store options. Want to know what your car is worth quickly? Get an online offer in under two minutes. Want to think it over?
Use OfferWatch to keep tabs on your car's value over time. Plus, CarMax offers flexible selling options with Express Drop-Off, in-store, or pickup at home. Selling your car is in your control with CarMax. Want to drive? CarMax.
Pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply. See CarMax.com for details.
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, and now generated assets, which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index, and lets you backtest it against the SP 500.
Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com/slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com/slash podcast. Paid for by Public Investing, brokerage services by Open to the Public Investing Inc., member F-I-N-R-A-S-I-P-C.
Advisory services by Public Advisors LLC, SEC Registered Advisor. Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com/slash disclosures. Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford, and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty.
Well, I don't know about you, but like I never liked being told, oh, wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, every age? That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now.
Meaningful Beauty, beautiful skin at every age. Learn more at meaningfulbeauty.com. Mm.
So you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but you don't. You just need GoDaddy Arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, and as an actor, I'm an expert in looking like I know what I'm doing. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business.
It'll make you a unique logo. It'll create a custom website. It'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar. Get started at go daddy.com slash arrow. That's godaddy.com slash airo.
And we continue with our American stories and the story of Colin Jones and David Drury, aka the card counting Christians. Let's pick up where we last left off. Here's David and Colin.
So, my story, I came across this idea of card counting on my own. I think it was around the time that Bringing Down the House, the book that became the movie 21, that had come out and I had read some things online about this is a beatable game. I was working as an editor at a trade publication. And I would sort of sneak off of work early to go try this thing out at the casinos with my own money. But it's true, this whole beginner's luck thing, because I won and I thought, oh, well, this is really, really easy.
And uh I had a friend I owed some money to, so I I I paid him with a hundred dollar bill. And of course a hundred dollar bill is a conversation starter. Why are you paying me with a hundred dollar bill? Like, oh well I'm glad you asked. I've been uh counting cards and and and beating black check.
And he's like Oh well, you must have met Ben. And I said Ben, and he said, Yeah, I think he's been doing that. He just bought a house.
So I was like, Well, I need to meet this Ben guy. It sounds like he's doing it the right way.
So I I met uh Ben. He Took me out to a casino and showed me how he played. And then he loaned me a book by Stanford Wong, one of the early heroes of card counting. And I read the book and I did all the math. And I figured out that the way I was playing, I could look to a lifetime of earning five cents an hour if I was playing correctly.
So I'd been just lucky for these first few sessions. And sure enough, I started losing and I gave up on the idea entirely. But a year later, I found out that Ben and Colin were forming a team and I had just gotten laid off.
So I was like, this sounds like the perfect job. And quickly I learned that I needed to forget everything that I had taught myself about card counting and start again from scratch. I had just passed the test out for the team. And Ben, it was announced, you know, okay, you made it, you did it. And we were, we were debriefing after the test in a casino and we were in the bathroom, of course, because that's one of the places you can, you can talk, and there are no cameras in the bathroom in a casino.
So he's in one stall and I'm in the other stall. And he's telling me that I passed the test. And this hand emerges underneath the stall with like $30,000 in cash. He's like, okay, you're all set. Start playing, you know?
And so that was, of course, it freaked me out because I'd never dealt with money like that. It's definitely an occupational hazard that you don't have in most other jobs. You know, you can get really desensitized to it. But, you know, over time that happens. At first, it's $1,000, I'm freaking out.
And then it's $5,000 that I have in my pocket and I'm freaking out. And then it takes, you know, $20,000 for me to be freaking out. And then I've got $100,000 and it's like. Kinda normal. I was in Philadelphia and I'm just, you know, just in jeans and a hoodie and I had one and for whatever reason I was traveling with $90,000.
And went through security just fine. They were like, What are all these envelopes? And I explained it like always, and they let me go on. And as I'm walking to the gate, there's like a voice over my shoulder. And he's like, I hear you have a lot of money on you.
I'm with the DEA. And he steers me to the side. It's this whole team of guys in suits and they start asking me questions. Where were you? What did you drive?
Where did you get gas? Do you have receipts? Where did you stay? What's your wife's name? What's your boss's name?
How much cash do you have on you? Where did you eat? You know, just like all the questions you would ask if you were in the DEA and worried somebody was like, you know, a drug runner or something like that.
So he went and called my bosses and came back and eventually said, you know what? We have the right to seize this money because of Homeland Security, but you're a good dude. And you got a good thing going on here.
So have a good day. And I made it. You know, you spend so much time as a card counter in a casino where you're not telling the casino people what you're doing. But when those situations come when we're, you know, talking to police or DEA, I personally get excited. I'm like, finally, I can tell someone all about what I do, this career that I'm really excited about, that I don't get to talk to people.
So when the DEA was questioning me, I could, you know, here are my logs, here's every hour I've worked, here's the money, here's where it came from. And I'm sort of, I probably was a little bit too enthusiastic. And he's like, this guy's not a criminal, he's just a geek.
So, I said that our original team had four people, and one of the guys, we'll call him Sammy. He doesn't want me to give his real name. But Sammy, when he saw that we were starting this team, he was like, What is this? The church team? Because it was all people we knew from church, and we thought that was hilarious.
And so, you know, the name kind of stuck. But what we would do is there's two ways to form a blackjack team. You find people that are interested already in, you know, beating casinos, and you try to build trust with them and team up. But we thought the other way is you take people that you already trust and know that there's some relational equity, and we felt like we could teach them blackjack.
So, that it started with one guy and then turned to two, which turned into four. And David was probably number three or four on that team. But we would take him from scratch and we'd say, Hey, Blackjack is a very unique game in that it's one of the only things in a casino where future events are dependent on past events. If you're playing Blackjack and a Queen of Diamonds is dealt, you will not see that Queen of Diamonds again until they shuffle. And so that's how it was created.
There's a guy, Dr. Edthorpe, and in the early 60s, he saw that someone had used computers to figure out the optimal way of playing Blackjack. And then he just hypothesized, hey, what if an ace comes out of the deck of cards that they're dealing? How does that change the odds? And he realized, oh, it makes it worse for the player.
And so he said, well, what's the other extreme? He said, what if a two comes out? And he realized that actually gave players the advantage because that two won't be seen again. The game is different now with that two gone. And so card counting was born with his book, Beat the Dealer.
And, you know, it just evolved where casinos, this cat and mouse game kept evolving. Casinos are then increasing the number of decks and changing the rules. And card counters are also adapting. But it's this weird symbiotic relationship because Blackjack became popular simply because it can be beaten. It wasn't the most popular casino game, but once a book came out that said this game can be beaten, of course, everybody with any money in their pocket wants to go and try to beat this game, and 99.9% of them.
Don't actually have the skills to do it, but the 0.1%, we actually do have that advantage.
So we would teach people card counting isn't gambling in a sense, it's more investing. Yeah, when anybody sits down at a blackjack table, generally they're gonna win 48 out of the next 100 hands, and the casino is gonna win 52 out of the next 100 hands. And we are able to turn that around.
So we're winning 52 hands out of 100. But you can understand that at any point, we could lose 48 hands in a row, and that would still be well within the realm of possibility. And the reason we went with a team is there are several things that make a team more valuable. One is you get to pool your resources. And so we had anywhere between $500,000 and a million dollars to play off of, which meant we could bet a lot of money, we could keep our risk really low.
But the other advantages are this game, you wouldn't believe the amount of variance there is, like the swings. It is not Uncommon for a card counter to go on a two or three or 400 hour losing streak.
Well, 400 might be uncommon, but it happens. And when you're on this losing streak, if you've got other teammates that are also playing, it's like you're getting to the law of large numbers faster. And I know that from reading the history of some of these teams that had gotten together, like the MIT team and other teams, personality conflicts come into play, especially when you're dealing with large amounts of cash and the rule of honesty. You know, because you can go into a casino and win $1,000 and go back to your team and say, oh, I lost $1,000 and pocket $2,000. And there's no way for a team to keep up on that kind of thing.
The only way you would know is over the long haul if they're a winning or losing player.
So there's a lot of honesty that comes into play and the camaraderie and it just, it really sort of glued us together. And you've been listening to David Drury and Colin Jones tell the story of their card counting empire. They're a small empire, but a growing one and, well, a recreational one that turned into A livelihood. When we come back, more of the story of Colin Jones and David Drury, the card-counting Christians. Here.
on our American stories. Want to sell your car your way? Who wouldn't? That's why CarMax offers a car selling experience designed just for you with online and in-store options. Want to know what your car is worth quickly?
Get an online offer in under two minutes. Want to think it over? Use OfferWatch to keep tabs on your car's value over time. Plus, CarMax offers flexible selling options with Express Drop-Off, in-store, or pickup at home. Selling your car is in your control with CarMax.
Want to drive? CarMax. Pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply. See Carmax.com for details.
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, and now generated assets, which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high-free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index, and lets you backtest it against the SP 500.
Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com/slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com/slash podcast. Paid for by Public Investing, Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc., member F-I-N-R-A-S-I-P-C.
Advisory Services by Public Advisors LLC, SEC Registered Advisor. Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com/slash disclosures. Now, I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford.
It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skincare simple, and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types, and it's designed to work as a complete skincare system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth, and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen, which contains all five of her best-selling products, including the amazing youth-activating melon serum. This next-generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology.
It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five-star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today, and you can get the amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory. Five-piece system, free gifts, free shipping, and a 60-day money-back guarantee.
All of that available at meaningfulbeauty.com.
So you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but you don't. You just need GoDaddy Arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, and as an actor, I'm an expert in looking like I know what I'm doing. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business.
It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar. Get started at go daddy.com slash arrow. That's go daddy.com slash a i r o And we continue with our American stories and with the story of Colin Jones, founder of BlackjackApprenticeship.com and the player dubbed the most notorious card counter in America. David Drury. Here's Colin and David to continue.
with their stories.
Okay. Some people think because we were a group of people that had met at church that that made us all more ethical or something. I don't know if that's necessarily true. I do know two people have admitted over the years that they pocketed money and later felt guilty and shared, and they were both. Christians.
And I know some people that are incredibly like I would trust them with my life savings that are not church people. But I think the fact that it was more that we had a similar circle relationally, there was a huge cost. If it came out that someone was stealing from the team, they wouldn't just lose their job. It was like, it would hurt the relationship.
So it's almost like if a group of friends and family teamed up, you know, there's more at stake than just getting fired. I think that was a big. Part of why it worked. Yeah, absolutely. My particular situation was that I was married with young kids.
So I was motivated to get these hours in and do this stuff. I think a lot of the other people on the team were younger, tended to be, you know, maybe single. And so they would fly out to a resort and were like, wow, look at this great pool. Wow, this bed is really comfortable.
So I was just working, working, working.
So I ended up doing a lot more playing than. Resort living. I'll step back a little bit. As a 23-year-old, you know, just graduated from a Christian college, Bible camp, Christian school guy, it was not the easiest thing to tell my family that I was gambling for a living. I remember when I told my parents they were missionaries at the time in Guatemala, and my mom basically went on a hunger strike.
She, you know, she was like terrified that I was just gonna end up a degenerate gambler, homeless. And my dad was afraid I was gonna be buried in a shallow grave in the desert by the mob. My father-in-law, when I told him, he said he wouldn't speak to me again until I spoke to three older, wise, godly men. And so, you know, the consensus I got was like, look, Colin, what you're doing, whether I would want my son to do it or not, there's nothing inherently wrong. You know, it's not illegal to count cards.
You're using your brain. It's not illegal to use your brain in casinos. But, you know, there's this whole view of casinos or even like gambling, you know, like. The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And this thought, like, well, if you're getting paid well as a lawyer, that's okay, or a doctor.
But if you're beating casinos, there's something really nefarious about it. But it was really this odd double life doing this. Because The days I wasn't playing blackjack, I was volunteering at church or playing on a worship band or, you know, leading a community group at our church or just being a normal, you know, 20-something, 30-something, you know, eventually dad. But then we're flying out and I'm getting picked up by a limousine and driven to the strip and they're offering me free drinks and all this stuff. And I don't drink what I play blackjack or whatever.
But you know, you're this high roller in these casinos and then you just fly home and you've got your normal responsibilities and I'm mowing the lawn and all that stuff. Yeah, that dichotomy. I remember one Sunday, I needed to get a transfer of like $30,000 from someone who was on the team. Went to the same church. and I was gonna fly out after church.
And so I went through the communion line and then I sat down back in my pew and then I saw this guy in the communion line. And he had a little paper bag with him, went through the communion line, then slapped this paper bag in my stomach of like 30 grand. It wasn't uncommon for me to go straight from worship band practice to a casino. I remember one time I played bass in a worship band, and a guy's like, Oh, Colin, what is that in your pocket? I was like, Oh, it's 10 straps.
And I'm pulling out $10,000, you know, out of each pocket and another $10,000 out of each coat pocket because I needed $40,000 for the limits I was going to be playing. And they started calling me 10 straps. That was like my nickname. And to me, it wasn't, I mean, I knew it was odd, but it wasn't that odd. And one of the weird things is people assume, you know, because the amount of money we're playing with, that it's this shortcut that's really easy.
But it's not easy. One way a friend put it is: it's a hard way to make easy money. I mean, it takes 200 hours to learn minimum, 200 hours.
So it's not something you're going to learn in a weekend. But even that's not the hard part. The hard part is the emotional part, the getting thrown out of casinos or the winning and losing streaks. The, okay, it's 2 a.m. I just got thrown out.
I don't know where I'm staying tonight. I got to figure it out. Is the casino scanning my license plate?
So they're going to know who I am before I even show up in the casino. Yeah, getting run out of a casino or where they walk you to your hotel room to watch you pack your bag so that they can kick you out of the hotel room that they had comped you know an hour and a half earlier. There's two kinds of people generally when you tell someone about this. There's the people that are too excited. They're like, no, that's amazing.
So you just go in there and then you walk out with the casino's money and you know, it's like, well, it's, it's don't, don't be that excited. Like you're going to go lose a lot of money at the casino if you're that optimistic. And then there are of the people that I think are more our background, like the church people that they're not even curious about it. They've just instantly put it in this category of, that sounds bad. That sounds wrong.
I don't want to ask any follow-up questions. I just don't like that you're doing it. And that's really like frustrating and disappointing. I was this personality before card counting. You know, I was the guy kind of like not doing anything wrong, but also not willing to do the things I was told to do just because I was supposed to do them.
Like I went to a Christian school. We had to wear a tie for chapel day every week. And so I had a wooden tie. I had like a sequin tie. I had a like infant's clip-on tie.
Like, okay, I'll follow your rule, but I'm not going to play this part that you're taught. I'm going to at least question it or be curious about it. And I wish there was a little bit. A little bit more of that from our culture. There's these people in the Bible called the Pharisees, and they're these people that are obsessed with their cultural political identity.
They're super defensive. They're terrified that. The way that they think they're supposed to be doing things is gonna be changed or questioned. They're gonna lose their identity. And it feels like a lot of the background we come from, it's that same thing of like, just play the part.
Act a certain way, and they're not even willing to question if that certain way of doing things is right. It's just like protect that identity. Yeah, I was in Palm Springs at a casino, and the circumstances were such that I had been at that casino before, and I had lost a lot of money. They probably just thought I was a bad player, and they were happy to bring me back and comp me a top-floor suite and all this stuff.
So I stroll out onto the casino floor the next morning, and for whatever reason, I sat down, and the first shoe that I played was just one of these glorious things that happened so rarely, but I just won all the money in one shoe, like $30,000. And immediately it all clicked for them and they realized like, oh, this guy's actually a card counter and now he's taking all our money.
So they backed me off and I was waiting to cash out at the cage. And this is particular to tribal casinos. They were like, this is illegal. You are card cheating. And I was almost entertained by this, so that's why I said, oh, well, where should I wait to meet the police and fill out the report?
And of course they hadn't called the police. There it is trying to run me out of the casino. And you've been listening to Colin Jones and David Drury, and they're telling the story of how they became card counters, what that life was like. As one of the men said, it was an odd kind of double life. By day I was playing blackjack, but soon thereafter would be leading a small group or a worship service, and then leaving those things to hit the tables again.
And oddly enough, there are many Christians who do this, and that is not card count, but play poker or play the horses and try to find an advantage in the numbers. And try to find out a winning strategy. When we come back, the story of the card-counting Christians. And we're talking about David Drury and Colin Jones here. on our American story.
Mm-hmm. Want to sell your car your way? Who wouldn't? That's why CarMax offers a car selling experience designed just for you with online and in-store options. Want to know what your car is worth quickly?
Get an online offer in under two minutes. Want to think it over? Use OfferWatch to keep tabs on your car's value over time. Plus, CarMax offers flexible selling options with Express Drop-Off, in-store, or pickup at home. Selling your car is in your control with CarMax.
Want to drive? CarMax. Pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply. See CarMax.com for details.
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, and now generated assets, which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high-free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index, and lets you backtest it against the SP 500.
Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com/slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com/slash podcast. Paid for by Public Investing, Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc., member F-I-N-R-A-S-IPC.
Advisory Services by Public Advisors LLC, SEC Registered Advisor. Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com/slash disclosures. Now, I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford.
It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skincare simple, and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types, and it's designed to work as a complete skincare system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth, and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen, which contains all five of her best-selling products, including the amazing youth-activating melon serum. This next-generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology.
It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five-star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today, and you can get the amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory. Five-piece system, free gifts, free shipping, and a 60-day money-back guarantee.
All of that available at meaningfulbeauty.com.
So you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but you don't. You just need GoDaddy Arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, and as an actor, I'm an expert in looking like I know what I'm doing, even when I don't. and I like the sound of starting my own business, Walton Goggins, Goggle Glasses.
But I'm an actor. I don't know what I'm doing. I needed help. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you, and even set you up with a social media calendar.
I didn't even realize I needed a social media calendar. GoDaddy Arrow will take your idea that sounds good and make a business that looks like you know what you're doing. Go to Ero can get your business up and running in minutes. You know what that sounds like? It sounds like a plan.
Get started at go daddy.com slash arrow. That's go daddy.com slash a i r o And we continue with our American stories and the stories of Colin Jones and David Drury, the card counting Christians. Let's pick up where we last left off. That's one of the big misconceptions. A couple of them.
One of them is that. It's illegal. And like I said, it's perfectly legal to use your brain. But the other is that casinos are gonna. Hit your hand with a ballpin hammer in the back of the casino, or you're going to end up hospitalized, or even worse, no one will ever see you again.
And there's movies where that happens. And there are some pretty crazy stories from the 60s and early 70s. But now most of these casinos are owned by mega corporations. And I know people that, if a casino just detained them against their will, they end up with a six-figure settlement. But that doesn't mean I haven't been in the back room of a casino.
One time we were playing in Arizona, and this was on the earlier team, and it was four of us, and we were just crushing the casinos. And after, by the end of our trip, we had $140,000 in chips for the casino. We all end up in the back of a casino explaining to them. They're saying, We know you cheated us. Explain to us how you cheated us.
And we're like, We didn't cheat. We were counting cards. They're like, Well, how does that work? And so we're explaining card gang to them. And they said, Well, how do you know what to bet?
This is one of my favorite lines ever: Sammy on the team, he says, I'll tell you. A fee. He was trying to get the casino to pay him a consultation fee. Eventually, they cash out our $140,000 and walk us to our cars and send us something in the mail saying we'll be arrested if we ever come back. But the whole thing of getting roughed up by casinos hasn't happened.
I had one interaction with police, but it was kind of a mistake. Similar, long story short, I'm cuffed. He takes everything out of my pockets. He looks me up. He's like, Do you have a criminal record?
I'm like, well, I have a speeding ticket from three years ago. And by the end of it, he's walking me out to my car and he's like, hey, do you teach other people how to count cards? And I said, well, matter of fact, we have a website we just started and told him about Blackjack Apprenticeship, the website that we'd just begun. And of course the casinos, all their advertising is like, hey, come win, we want winners. Look how many winners we have.
And then they find someone that actually has the ability to win and they're like, hey, you're not well. Like, what do you think you're doing trying to win? You know they have the winner's wall at a casino with all the old ladies with holding up their oversized check for $15,000. I would love to sneak into a casino and put my picture up on the wall above the time I took them for whatever I took them for.
So the fact that it is beatable is what makes the casino so much money.
So we're just proving the fact that it is beatable.
So they shouldn't hate us too much. We're part of the reason why they're making so much money. But when we started the church team, it was working. We were winning. Like crazy.
We actually ended up winning, you know, for the duration of this team, we won $3.2 million. But the way that we played, It wasn't really sustainable, so people started kind of burning out. Either they're having a hard time getting hours in at a casino, or the travel is getting to them, or like me, want to start a family. And it's one thing when I'm like out odd hours and gone five days at a time when I had no kids. It's different when I've got one kid, and two, and three, and four kids.
I did a road trip with my wife and four kids. We drove down to San Diego and back, and I played 40 hours of Highland Blackjack. But it would be something like we show up at the casino, my wife sits in the minivan with an iPad, watching Monsters Inc. or something on the iPad while I'm playing, trying to get a comped room. I finally get the comped room, I get the family checked in, get them tucked in bed, and then I go play blackjack till I can't keep my eyes open, sleep for like three hours, and then my kids are jumping on my bed.
And it's like, this isn't really the life I want for the next 30 years. Yeah, that's the reason I never brought my family on trips. Yeah. But there are some dimensions. Finishing returns, so I remember at the beginning of my career, I could go out to Vegas and play 10 to 12 hours a day and come home with thousands that I'd earned or whatever.
And then as time went by, I was noticing, like, oh, I can only get in six or seven hours a day. They're kicking me out, they know my face. And in the end, I'm having to either bet lower to stay under the radar or I'm winning less because I'm doing all this ducking and dodging. I was at one casino in Las Vegas and got kicked out really quick. And I was standing in line to cash out the few chips that I had.
And I hear someone yelling my name, you know, David, David. And I've trained myself to not turn because sometimes they'll try and test, like, is this that guy? Let's call his name and see if he responds. And if I don't respond, then maybe they don't think it's me.
So this guy's yelling my name, and finally, everybody in the line is looking at behind me. And so I had to turn around. And there's this guy with one arm, long ZZ top beard. And he comes up to me enthusiastically and he's like, I'm buying you a drink. And I thought, okay, so I've got a crazy fan in this casino who must have been watching the way I was playing or something.
Well, it turns out he was the head of all surveillance for a string of casinos. And sure enough, he sat me down, bought me a drink, and he just wanted to know everything. He was a super fan, but he was on the other side. And he ended up giving me, you know, tips to how to evade his own security because he was such a super fan. But from that, he told me that I had become known as the most notorious card counter in America.
So that was my claim to fame from that short time period. But it also meant that I had sort of worked myself out and everybody knew my face.
Well, that's how you became a master of disguises. Right. Yeah, so then I tried to do the disguise route. Nobody had disguises as good as David's. I don't think anyone tried as hard, and no one pulled it off as well.
Tell me a couple of your. Looks. Yeah, I had a knack for looking a lot younger than I was or a lot older than I was. And so in a casino, there are shift changes.
So basically, everybody who's working there works there for eight hours, and then a whole new team comes in. And so we would come back on shift changes because you know you're not being seen by all the same people that were there eight hours ago.
So I'd come in on my first shift at the casino with whatever I could grow beard-wise before the trip, you know, wearing a worn leather and a Harley-Davidson t-shirt. And so I was, you know, sort of like Harley guy. And then I'd go and I'd shave it all off and put on my foo boo jersey and be sort of like this young punk who's throwing money around at the casino. And then I'd go and change again and I'd put on my promise keeper hat and my fleece vest and my flooded khakis and come across like I was sort of a middle-aged accountant. David was able to pull that off, but over the last couple years of the team, a few things happened.
One is, you know, we had half a billion dollars of mine and my friends' money invested in this thing. And people like David are continuing to grind out hours here and there at casinos. And my stomach Hurting. I'm not sleeping well. I had, I never lost a night's sleep losing my own money.
I had nights where my net worth would drop maybe as much as six figures, and it would suck. But it was like, well, whatever, easy come, easy go. And we trust the math. But it's different when you have to tell, you know, your father-in-law or a friend, like, hey, how's the team doing? And say, well, not good.
You know, it always turns around, but when it's down, all the investors are freaking out.
So I'm not sleeping well. And my mind is, I'm thinking about these internet businesses more than I'm thinking about our blackjack team. I thought, this is scary. We got half a million dollars of money that I'm responsible for, and my head's not in the game. This is a recipe for something really to go bad.
And so I, you know, called all of the investors and I said, hey, I think I want to pull the plug on this. And they were all okay with it. And so I had to call all the players and say, hey, I'm done. The church team officially ended there. But then, I mean, part of that also was that someone made a movie about us, which we signed on for, but you know, it put more of our.
Identity out there so that casinos can know. Totally. Yeah, yeah. All these things kind of converged to where it was like: let's pull the plug. When all that started happening and I focused all my time on blackjack apprenticeship, David decided to work on his memoirs writing the entire story of the weird intersection of spiritual, personal, and card counting.
You know, I got a degree in creative writing, so before I was ever a card counter or math, creative writing was my favorite thing to do. And so now it's time. I'm gonna look at these stories and write them down and see if we can put together a book.
So at the end of the day, I feel like my story was able to come full circle where I started out as a teacher. And I get to teach, right? And a great job as always by Greg, and a special thanks to Colin Jones, founder of BlackjackApprenticeship.com. And also the man dubbed the most notorious card counter in America, David Drury. And it is so true he did get it, or both men got it, the misconceptions about card county A.
It's perfectly legal. By the way, if you're ever sitting at a blackjack table and you notice somebody on a $25 table suddenly moving their bet from $25 to $250, They're probably card counters. And then if they bring that bet back down to 25. and then they randomly go back and forth between those two bets.
Well they're card counters and they've found that there's an advantage in the count in the deck. It is the rare game but for poker where it's up to the player and the player's skills to win and also the horse racing and paramutual windows where skilled horse players can also win. And by the way, we're not endorsing gambling here either way, but Americans love to gamble. And by the way, Christians love to gamble. It's when you have a problem that you shouldn't do it.
The story of the card-counting Christians. And we're talking about David Drury and Colin Jones here on Our American Stories. Yeah, we're gonna. At CVS, it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night.
And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and yeah, healthy snack. At CVS, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters.
So visit us at cvs.com or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location. This is Julie Nettleman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. Sunday mornings, I've got my game day ritual.
Coffee. Lucky socks. And now, new morning uncrustable sandwiches. It's all about that 12-gram protein boost with the new uncrustables, bright-eyed berry, or up and apple flavors. Bright-eyed berries got a feisty.
Receiver energy up in Apple. Your classic do-it-all tight end.
Soft, pillowy-packed with protein, and easy enough. for Gronk to grab from the freezer. Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate or heading to the locker room. New morning uncrushable sandwiches. Are the MVP of snacks?
Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here. with new morning uncrustable sandwiches packed. with twelve grams of protein. This is Vadi Devlukia from A Really Good Cry, and I absolutely love getting outside, whether it's a quick walk or a few mindful steps between meeting or a longer run to just clear my head. But the one thing that can really ruin that for me is shoes that just don't feel right.
That's why I started wearing ultra running. With their ultra fit, every step feels comfortable, balanced, and strong, like my feet could finally move freely. What really stood out to me was the roomy toe box, especially because I have wide feet. My toes actually now have room to spread out, which makes movement feel more natural and comfortable. And when your feet aren't cramped, you feel more balanced like every step has a strong, stable foundation.
I've noticed that with extra space, my foot muscles get to work, building strength, so I can actually move with more confidence, whether it's a short walk or a long run. It's amazing how freeing your feet can also help free your mind too. Ultra fits and moves with you, no matter your pace or your goals. beginner or a marathon runner. They've really become my go-to for any kind of running or training and I always feel like my feet can do exactly what they're meant to.
Feel the difference by visiting altrarunning.com. That's A-L-T-R-A-Running.com. Experience Altra and stay out there.
Well, the holidays have come and gone once again. But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift, well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless.
So here's the idea: you get it now, you call it an early present for next year. What do you have to lose? Give it a try at mintmobile.com/slash switch. Limited time, 50% off regular price for new customers. Up front payment required: $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12-month plan.
Taxes and fees extra. Speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy. See terms. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.
Mm-hmm.
