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Pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply. See CarMax.com for details. This is Lee Habib and this is Our American Stories, the show where America is the star and the American people coming to you from the city where the West begins, Fort Worth, Texas. Johnny Carson reigned supreme as the host of The Tonight Show from 1962 to 1992.
After 30 years of being on air, some of his skits reigned supreme as well as some of his guests. Here with this story is Mark Malkoff, author of In Love with Johnny Carson, One Obsessive Fan's Journey to Find the Genius Behind the Legend. Here's Mark. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a very exciting night for us. Not only are all the members of our NBC family here with us, we also have a great visitor from the East, the famous Seer.
Sage, all-knowing, all-seeing, all-obniscient, and former Master of Ceremonies at a house of pies. Ladies and gentlemen, coincident The Magnificent! Johnny's most famous character was Karnak the Magnificent. Sim Solabim. Welcome, welcome, welcome once again.
We have a special, special NBC family in our audience tonight, anxious to see and hear your great wisdom. I have the envelopes here. They've been hermetically sealed. Kept in a mayonnaise jar in Bob Howard's porch since noon today. No one knows the contents of these envelopes.
But you! Your incredibly divine way will ascertain the answers. Without ever before seeing the question. Isn't that right, sir? That's impossible.
Oh, yes. Of course. Of course, that's what I'll do. The first envelope. May I have absolute silence, please, as thou divine the...
Yes, hermetically sealed. Yes, I understand that. I will divine the answer, even though the question has been sealed in. That means that no one could even open it up if they wanted. To accept you.
That's true. Johnny would hold envelopes up to his head, and he wore a cape and a turban. He would state what the answer was. To the question, he would open the envelope and then read what the question was: three-dog night. What's a bad night for a tree?
A losing streak. A losing streak. Describe a man running naked after chugging prune juice. And It was very, very hard for the writers. Johnny thought it was a night off for the writers, but the writers all told me it was the hardest thing that they had to write.
They told me that if they were flying in an airplane and it was crashing down, that their one comforting thought was that I would never have to write another Carnac The Magnificent again. Johnny's Carson's writers have told me to this day, and it's been decades, that they still have dreams, anxiety dreams, where they're writing Carnac's. A thousand clowns. A thousand clowns. Yeah.
Uh Who put together the NBC fall schedule? Johnny Carson purchased the rights to Carnick. In 1950, when he was local in Los Angeles, a gentleman named Carl Winston in Collier's magazine had written the word quiz backwards, and he was the one that would state what the Answer was, and then you had to come up with the question. And Johnny thought this would be a good comedy routine, and he bought the rights to it for $200. Little did he know that Steve Allen's writers, and this happens in comedy, sometimes come up with the same ideas.
And Steve Allen on the Tonight Show, when he was the first host of the Tonight Show, did the question answer man, which was Essentially that routine. Johnny Carson knew when he got the Tonight Show, and it was national that people would say that he stole this routine.
So for two years, he did not do it. He waited until the public was clearly behind him and NBC was supporting him, that he started doing the Carneck the Magnificent. And it was by far his most popular routine. Steve Allen, years later, would accuse Carson of stealing it, but as Johnny would say, and Carl Winston said many times, that Johnny was the rightful owner of the bit. Carson loved when one of his carnacs didn't go well.
There was always one or two jokes where the audience would groan, and that's when Carson would do what was called a Carson saver. He would say to the audience, May you, and then some sort of insult to the audience, which they loved. UCLA. UCLA. Yeah.
What happens when there isn't any smog? Fucking May the sewers of Anchapur back into your six o'clock news. At the very end, Ed McMahon of the bit, Ed McMahon would say, I hold in my hand the final envelope. I hold in my hand the last envelope. And they would hit the applause and the audience would cheer that they were excited that this painful bit was going to be over.
But that was all part of the act. And then Johnny would do another Carnac Saver and make fun of the audience. May your only daughter go into syndication with an army camp. It was something that the audience has always looked forward to when Johnny would shine. In the late 1960s, a singer named Tiny Tim debuted on The Tonight Show.
Uh very sincere. It's different. Um No, really. He's different. What?
He's different. Yes, I guess this would be like a... This is not the day and age of the ordinary run of the mill. And he's certainly not ordinary or out of the milk. That's right.
Would you welcome, please? Tiny Tim. Yeah. His appearance caused a mini riot at the Tonight Show. Tiny Tim would play a ukulele and have this high falsetto voice.
long straggly hair. Ah Cheers. That the mere appearance of him was shocking to the public. And the first time he went on Johnny Carson's show, Johnny couldn't tell if Tiny Tim was doing a character or if this was him. And after talking to him for a few minutes, he figured out that this was genuine.
This is who Tiny Tim was. How are you? That, uh. That's the damnedest act I've ever seen.
Okay. And you've been listening to Mark Malkoff tell some stories about characters and guests that made Johnny Carson, Johnny Carson. And one of them, of course, Karnak the Magnificent. I knew when I was a kid, sometimes, well, I'd get woken up from my sleep to see Karnak. My parents knew I loved Karnak that much.
Who knew that his writers had anxiety about writing that skit? How hard, how difficult it was. And then, of course, we just heard about Tiny Tim. We'll hear more, I'm sure. More of the story of Johnny Carson's characters, and in the end, the Johnny Carson Show here on Our American Stories.
This is Lee Habib, and this is Our American Stories. And all of our history stories are brought to us by our generous sponsors, including Hillsdale College, where students go to learn all the things that are beautiful in life. and all the things that matter in life. If you can't get to Hillsdale, Hillsdale will come to you with their free and terrific online courses. Go to hillsdale.edu.
That's hillsdale.edu. The new year means new health goals, not just for your body, but for your finances too. But did you know, financial health is directly related to identity protection. You need Life Lock because your personal info is in endless places that are outside of your control. It only takes one mistake, and not even your mistake, to expose you to identity theft and lost funds.
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That's why CarMax offers a car selling experience designed just for you with online and in-store options. Want to know what your car is worth quickly? Get an online offer in under two minutes. Want to think it over? Use OfferWatch to keep tabs on your car's value over time.
Plus, CarMax offers flexible selling options with Express Drop-Off, in-store, or pickup at home. Selling your car is in your control with CarMax. Want to drive? CarMax. Pickup not available everywhere.
Restrictions and fee may apply. See CarMax.com for details. Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi-asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto, and now generated assets, which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt: from renewable energy companies with high-free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year.
You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one-of-a-kind index, and lets you backtest it against the SP 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com/slash podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio.
That's public.com/slash podcast. Paid for by Public Investing, Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc., member F-I-N-R-A-S-I-P-C. Advisory Services by Public Advisors LLC, SEC Registered Advisor. Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice.
Complete disclosures available at public.com/slash disclosures. Ready to change your life for just $2 a day? Orange Theory Fitness delivers one-hour workouts that combine strength and cardio to help you burn fat, build muscle, and feel unstoppable. Right now, get a full month of unlimited classes for just $62. Don't wait, this offer ends soon.
Visit orangetheory.com or your local studio and start your transformation today. Offer ends January 31st, 2026. New members only, premier membership, performance monitor, and monthly billing required. Discount applies to first month only. Other terms apply.
See Studio for details. And we continue with our American stories and the story of Johnny Carson, characters he brought to life, and characters he brought on stage. Let's pick up where we last left off. On the subject of Tiny Tim with Mark Malkoff, author of In Love with Johnny Carson. Take it away, Mark.
And the audience Couldn't get enough of this, man. It was absolutely shocking at the time. Johnny didn't make fun of Tiny Tim. The audience would laugh at Johnny's reactions and just that this man who was extremely talented, who had admirers from everyone from the Beatles to Bob Dylan that were impressed with Tiny Tim, that he was an actually really solid musician. But just his appearance and his high voice was something that the audiences couldn't get enough at.
So Tiny Tim would go on Johnny's show routinely and he became one of the biggest stars in America. He did a book signing in Philadelphia and 10,000 people showed up. And that is when he met who became his bride, his fiancée, Miss Vicki. And they went on Johnny's show, and Johnny had the idea, which had never been done on a late night show: while you're engaged, you're going to be getting married, why don't you get married on our show? In Tiny Tim Without Asking Miss, Vicki said yes.
He liked the idea of getting a free wedding, and he was very much into getting as much publicity as possible.
So In December of 1969, Tiny Tim got married to Miss Vicki on the Tonight Show. It was the hottest ticket in town. It was black tie. Everyone wanted to be in the show.
Well, I can't think of any better toast than a very simple one to wish you both health and great happiness in your marriage. Tiny Kim getting married on the show. That was huge. You know, I was in high school at the time, and it was the classic thing of. What happened on the Tonight Show, everybody talked about.
The show was the highest rated show in the history of television next to the moon landing. 45 million people tuned in to this. wedding Which was the biggest event. It was front page news. 85% of all television sets at the time were tuned to the Tiny Tim wedding.
They saved the wedding until the very end of the show to make people stay up until 12.50 a.m. even though they had worked the next day. And Tiny Tim married Miss Vicki and it became television history. That many eyeballs on one late night show, and it has never been broken since. Rodney Dangerfield was a struggling comedian.
He had been doing nightclubs. He had previously been selling aluminum siding doors. And he always wanted to be a comedian. And he was very, very funny, but a struggling comedian. And one night he had noticed that Johnny Carson did a joke that he had done in a nightclub, and he accused one of Johnny's writers of stealing the joke.
Rodney Dangerfield wrote a very offensive letter to Johnny Carson, who he had never met, telling Johnny that he was ripping him off and a lot of four-letter words I can't say. And Johnny told his comedy booker Ronnie Dangerfield, will never do the tonight show. Ronnie Dangerfield started doing Ed Sullivan's show. It became a big stand-up star. The one show that he needed to do for his career was Johnny Carson's show.
They had a new comedy booker who told Ronnie, I want you to do Carson Show. And Ronnie said, I don't think Johnny will let me on. I think he'll remember. He's like, no, Johnny, I'm sure he doesn't remember this. And sure enough, Johnny said he's not doing the show.
Johnny one night in the late 60s was at the Copa Cabana to see Tony Bennett. And Rodney Dangerfield had been opening up at the Coba Caban and saw Johnny and his manager, who Rodney Dangerfield had known. And Rodney went up to Johnny and said, I'm sorry, I was wrong. And he got Johnny Carson as manager, took them in the service entrance in the kitchen and got them so they didn't have to wait in line. And they were seated with great spots, and Rodney apologized.
That was the thing that got Rodney back on the show to make his debut the first time ever on Carson. But Rodney Dangerfield's manager was told, under no circumstances is Rodney going to sit down with Johnny. He's going to do stand-up and he is going to leave. And then Rodney said, well, if he's going to have that attitude, I'm not going to do it. His manager said, no, Rodney, you need to do this for your career.
Just go on and do it. Here he is, friends. He got his suit back just in time. No matter what happens in his life, he gets absolutely no respect. Would you welcome Rodney Dangerfield?
Rodney was so funny at his first time on Carson that Carson broke his own rule and called Rodney Danger and Field over to the couch. I tell you, my neighbor don't get no respect either. No respect at all. You kidding? But no respect from anybody.
That's the way it works out. I bought some rat poison. A girl asked me, should I wrap it up? You're gonna eat it here. What?
And I was an ugly kid too. I worked in a pet store, the people kept asking how big I'd get. Ronnie Dangerfield was somebody. Normally comedians would do 25 jokes. Ronnie Dangerfield, every Carson appearance, did 50 new jokes.
25 jokes doing stand-up. Then he'd sit with Johnny down on the panel and do 25 more. There's always something. New generations. Oh, my dog, too.
She gives me trouble. Your dog? Yeah, yeah. I got a female dog, you know. I tried to mate her.
She wants 50 biscuits. That's great. Yeah. Female's a female, no matter what the species, right? Every day there's something, Johnny.
You know, today's been a terrible day, terrible day today. What happened today? I got up this morning and did my push-ups in the nude. I didn't see the mousetrap. Man, I can't take the pressure.
Johnny, it's bad for my health. How is your health?
Now it's time for health. You feel my Dr. Viniba? Dr. Vinny Boombach.
Yeah, that's the one. Dr. Vinny Boombat. Yeah, very fair, just thinking very fair. I'm not a kid, you know, I'm getting old.
Yeah. I know I'm getting old.
Well, my last birthday cake looked like a prairie fire. You know how it is. I know I've got no. At my age, I want two girls at once, you know. If I fall asleep, they've got each other to talk to.
What's new with you? I assume you're through. Yeah, I think it's a good idea. We'll be back in a minute. Ronnie Dangerfield became the best comedian, stand-up comedian, to do the tonight show.
His appearances became legendary on YouTube. They have millions and millions of views. It became a blueprint on how a comedian did the tonight show and how prepared they were. Ronnie Dangerfield would not go on Carson's show unless he knew he had 50 killer jokes. Eventually in the early 80s, Ronnie Dangerfield One night helped Johnny Carson home after Carson had too much to drink at a comedy club.
Johnny didn't remember it. at all, but Rodney had helped Johnny get home. Rodney was very upset that Johnny never said thank you for helping me back and Rodney refused to do this show for eight years until Johnny's final months on the show where finally after Johnny asked and Rodney was promoting a movie, he finally got nostalgic and went back on with Johnny and it was like eight years and that hadn't happened and all was good. Rodney Dangerfield's work lives on on YouTube and is still to this day some of the funniest stand-up you will ever see. And a terrific job on the production, editing, and storytelling by our own Greg Hengler.
And a special thanks to Mark Malkoff, author of In Love with Johnny Carson. One obsessive fans journey to find the genius. behind the legend. Go to bookstores, anywhere, or go to Amazon or the usual suspects. and get the book.
You won't put it down. And my goodness, we learned so much about Carson's use of both characters and his ability to launch or take advantage of talent to make not only his show must-see TV, but to launch the careers of absolute talents like Rodney Dangerfield. And it's so remarkable to think that this guy is in his 50s Dangerfield and out there selling aluminum siding. And struggling, and what do you know, those guest hits on Carson, in addition to the Ed Sullivan show. Made him, well, who he is.
And you can go on YouTube and just, well, just check it out. You, you will, if you've not or not familiar with Dangerfield's appearances on the Carson show, you know him from movie appearances, but they're everywhere. They're all over YouTube with millions upon millions of views. They'll live forever. And Carson is straight man, because that's what you learn here.
Carson is straight man, even in Carnac the Magnificent, how he dealt with silence, how he dealt with dramatic pauses. A master craftsman. The story of Carnack the Magnificent, Tiny Tim, and Ronnie Dangerfield here on Our American Stories. The new year brings new health goals and wealth goals. Protecting your identity is an important step.
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Visit lifelock.com/slash iHeart. Terms apply. This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronkin' Jewels. Sunday mornings, I've got my game day ritual. Coffee.
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Mm-hmm.
