Marriage and the Bottom Line

He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord. Proverbs 18, 22.

Hi, I'm Rob West. God's Word speaks of the many blessings of marriage, companionship, comfort, and loyalty to name a few. But did you know that some marital blessings are financial? I'll talk about that today, and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Studies consistently show that married people fare better financially than single people, significantly better. Here's what's disturbing. Despite the many benefits of tying the knot, the marriage rate in America continues to fall. According to the Census Bureau, the percentage of adults living with a spouse decreased from 52 percent to 50 percent over the past decade.

Now, that's not a big drop, but it shows that a decades-long trend is continuing. In 1960, 67 percent of adults were married. This means that a growing number of Americans, especially millennials, those born from 1977 to 1995, are missing out on the financial benefits of marriage.

Only 44 percent of millennials are choosing to marry these days. They may be unaware of the relationship between a person's marital status and household wealth. The Census Bureau reports that the median net worth of married couple households is greater at all age levels than that of households headed by unmarried people. Well, no kidding, especially if both spouses are working. But get this, married heads of household have a net worth nine times greater than unmarried female householders and three times more than unmarried male householders.

Now, a couple of disclaimers. First, this isn't always the case. We're talking about averages here. Obviously, some single people can be quite well off. Second, we're not suggesting that everyone should be married. Jesus wasn't married.

Paul wasn't married, and he recommended against marriage for those who were single and already called into the ministry of the very early church. Okay, it goes without saying that single parents are under a great deal more financial strain than our married couples and are far more likely to experience poverty. Several years ago, the Los Angeles Times ran an op-ed titled The Single Mom Catastrophe.

It pointed out the challenges for single moms and society as a whole. For example, in 1965, only 7% of American children were born to unmarried women. These days, around 40% of all births in the US happen outside of marriage, and 25% of parents living with a child are unmarried. Of course, it's only logical that single parents face a greater financial challenge than married couples, with the family's potential earnings cut in half or more. But even married households with only one spouse working are better off than a single parent, again, on average.

They don't have child care costs and other expenses. Only around 10% of married couples are classified as poor by government standards, while 40% of single-mother families are living below the poverty line. Obviously, marriage is financially beneficial to women, especially women with children. But what about men? Studies show that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, too. Married men have more incentive to work harder and longer, putting in more hours than unmarried men.

On average, single men work fewer hours, earn less money, and even receive fewer promotions than married men. We can boil all this down to four key decisions in life. First, graduate from high school. Yes, I know that studies consistently show that, on average, you'll have more earning potential with a college degree. But college isn't for everybody, so at least get a high school education. Second, get a job.

That one's pretty obvious. Third, like we've been saying, get married. And last, if the Lord allows you to have children, wait until you're at least 21 to do so. For a married couple, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. By joining together, their strength is more than doubled.

None of this should be surprising. Marriage was, of course, ordained by God to be a blessing to us. Let me finish with Ecclesiastes 4, where it teaches, Two are better than one, because they have a good return for their labor. For if either of them falls, the other one will lift up his companion.

But woe to the one who falls when there is not another to lift him up. We want to encourage you in your marriage journey, especially as it relates to finances. And let me direct you back to our website for all the helpful resources you'll find at faithfi.com, many of them on money and marriage. All right, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, your questions at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. I'm Rob West, and this is Faith in Finance Live. We'll be right back. The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or professional opinions of the participants given for informational purposes only.

Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your specific situation. Thanks for joining us today on Faith in Finance Live. I'm Rob West. All right, we're ready to dive into your calls and questions today. We've got some lines open, just a few of them. The calls are coming in and they're building quickly. But if you have a question today, you can call right now at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. We'd love to be able to understand what you're thinking about in your financial life today, encourage you, and hopefully equip you to make a good decision in light of biblical wisdom. That's at least our objective here on the program each day. Let's do that. We're going to begin in Ohio today and you'll be our first caller. Go ahead.

Hi, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. I lost my husband in January and I am going to be getting a small life insurance policy and I want to tithe on it. It's an increase, you know, I listen to your show, it's an increase. But I was wondering, instead of giving it to my local church, is there anything that would, biblically, that would permit me to maybe pay it to another, I'm thinking Moody, I love Moody Radio, so I was thinking on donating that to Moody rather than the local church.

Sure, sure. You know, and first of all, let me just say, I'm sorry I'm here to hear about your husband's passing and I'm encouraged to hear that you have this life insurance coming. It's certainly one way he was able to provide for you in life and after his passing and that's the purpose of life insurance, so that's great. And I'm thrilled to hear that you want to honor the Lord with that. And that's an act of worship, it's a testimony of your trust in God's continued provision, because if we thought it was dependent upon us or someone or something else to provide for us, we might hold on to that every dollar of that with a clenched fist. But you're saying, God, I recognize you're my provider and so I want to return a portion of this, and in your case, to a ministry, a wonderful ministry, Moody Radio, that's been a blessing to you and encouragement to you.

I imagine something you turn to on a daily basis for equipping and encouragement and that's great. And so where you give that gift, I think, is certainly between you and the Lord. You know, giving is not intended to be legalistic or certainly not under compulsion. In New Testament, giving is free giving, meaning you give it freely and according to your own desire to give. It's cheerful giving, it's an act of worship. I think there's an element of sacrifice to it, as evidenced by the widow and her might that Jesus celebrated. I think there's an idea that we should be systematic and proportionate in our giving, and that's where I think the tithe is a great guideline.

It says, to whom much is given, much is required in God's Word. So ultimately, I think it's a wonderful thing that you want to do, and I think directing that gift, in this case, to Moody Radio is fabulous. But ultimately, it's between you and the Lord.

I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer here. Now, you know, you will hear me say that I think when we use the tithe as a guideline for our giving, that I think we should start with our local church, clearly funding the work of the churches on the heart of God. And you're doing that, I would imagine, and have been with your income. But I think in this case, with this increase that's coming by way of these life insurance proceeds, if this is something you'd like to use to bless Moody Radio, then I think that's absolutely appropriate, in my opinion. Is that helpful? It is very helpful, helpful.

Thank you so much. I appreciate you taking my call, and you have a wonderful day. Well, thank you, and let me just ask you before you go, how are you doing just with the rest of your finances? Do you feel like you have a good plan moving forward? Were you a bookkeeper, you know, when it came to the finances? Or have you been left with just a lot of questions and concerns in your financial life?

Or how are you doing at this point? Actually, yeah, I did take care of all the of the bills. Houses paid off, cars paid off. I have one small bill, but other than utilities, I'm still actually working full-time.

I get to work from home, so that's a plus. I'm also collecting my social security, so what I'm going to do is kind of wait a few months until the dust settles, settles, and then figure out my budget and when I would be able to possibly retire. But yeah, as far as finances, I'm fine right now. I've got, oh, about $54,000 in a savings account, so I've got 30 of it in a high yield and then about 27 in the regular one in a regular bank, which I'm going to transfer when I can, but like I said, I want to figure out what actually is going to be coming in and what's actually going to be going out and redo the budget and then I'll figure out where I go from there. Very good.

Well, it sounds like you've got things well under control. Let me offer a resource to you. There's a wonderful friend of ours here at Moody Radio, Miriam Neff and Valerie Neff-Hogan, a mother and daughter that started a ministry called Widow Connection, and Miriam Neff started it after her husband, Bob, who was a part of the Moody Radio team, passed away and she found herself as a widow managing money. And you'll find it at widowconnection.com. I think it'll be a real encouragement to you. There's a podcast, a lot of resources. They also co-authored a book called Wise Women Managing Money and I'd love to send you a copy of that as our gift.

I think it'll be an encouragement to you, but check it out on the web as well at widowconnection.com. Okay. Oh, that sounds wonderful. Thank you. Very good. You're welcome.

Stay on the line. We'll get your information and get that in the mail. May the Lord bless you, Ann. Let's go to Missouri.

Hi, Mike. Go ahead. Yeah. I'm going to be retiring this summer and I'm going to draw my social security starting in March.

I'm part of the Missouri Peers retirement plan for public schools and they offer me a partial lump sum on my retirement at a reduced rate for my monthly benefits. And I thought I would just take that and roll it into an IRA account. Yeah. Yeah. And you're wondering if that's a good idea? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it certainly can be. I think you need to just think through it. The benefit of course is that you'd have access to the funds and, you know, oftentimes in this season of life, there will be some significant needs along the way that might require you or might need to be able to access more funds at one time. And so obviously with just that one monthly payment, if you were to get the pension on the whole thing, it's regular income and that's great. But if you have a need that goes beyond that, you can't get to it. And that's where I think having access to the lump sum can really be helpful or a portion of it in your case. I think the other consideration is just if you want to be able to have access to it to leave an inheritance, you know, normally we would see that pension payment go away at the death of you or you and your spouse. And then there's nothing left.

Whereas in the case of the lump sum, if it's invested properly, it could provide an income and you'd have access to the larger balance, but you could also leave it as an inheritance. So I'm on board with that. I'd probably work with an advisor just to go over your whole financial situation, but at face value, I think it's a great idea. We'll be right back. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West here on a Friday afternoon. We're taking your calls and questions with two lines open. You can call right now at 800-525-7000. Let's go to Lancaster, PA. Hi, Steve. Go ahead. Hi.

Thanks for taking my call. I have a money market account, and currently I am living off of some of the money that's in that account. And what I'm doing is I'm taking money from my paycheck and putting it into a Roth 403b in an attempt to maximize that Roth 403b saving benefit for retirement. And I was wondering if that seems like a wise choice for that money that I'm using to live off of, which is savings that could be invested elsewhere, and what your thoughts might be about that.

Yeah, so let me just make sure I understand. So you have just a straight money market account, not inside a retirement vehicle. It's what we would call a taxable account, correct?

It is a taxable account, yeah. All right, and what's the balance on that roughly? About $250,000. Okay, and how far are you away from retirement just based on what you're planning on today? About 30 years. About 30 years, okay.

Probably. All right, and how much are you pulling out of the money market every month? Honestly, not too much. I haven't really had to pull out too much from that, but I mean not even a thousand dollars.

Okay, all right, very good. But it's currently just sitting in money market and you're pulling a thousand a month out of it, so $12,000 a year. Now, you're putting 100% of your paycheck in the 403b or just up to the the contribution limit, or what are you doing there? Well, it's not 100%, it's like 75% because I wasn't sure how much I needed to actually live off of, and it kind of fluctuates from month to month, but it's about 75-8% every month. My idea was to maximize my yearly contribution to that Roth 403b.

Yeah, it's okay. So for this year, you know, you can put in $23,000, so you're going to fully max that out as your plan, correct? Yes, uh-huh. Okay, and then what's beyond that, then you're using that to live on beyond the thousand a month that you're pulling from money market. Right, and then actually once I hit that contribution rate, I don't need to pull anything out of that money market account to live, then I can just live on my paycheck normally.

I see, yeah, very good. Yeah, I mean, I like that plan because if you wouldn't be able to fully fund the Roth 403b without pulling from the money market, then you know, you're not able to get as much into that tax-free growth environment as you are by supplementing your income, at least during those months where you're still under the maximum contribution limit for the year, you're supplementing from the money market. So I think that's a great plan because as you said, you've got 30 years now for that money inside the 403b that you're maxing out to grow tax-free, which is a powerful vehicle.

So I like that a lot. I guess the only question I would have is just, is there a better use in terms of investment strategy for the 250,000? I mean, you're not pulling a whole lot, you know, every year. So if you're only pulling 12,000 a year, you're pulling 5%, basically. And so, you know, money markets are paying a decent amount today, that's not going to last forever. So I guess the other question would just be, is there a time now or sometime in the near future for you to actually put some portion of that 250,000 to work so that that's growing beyond what's possible in the money market? Yes, you're adding some risk to it. And if that includes your emergency fund, then I wouldn't put all of it in, I'd keep at least, you know, probably six months expenses in the money market. But it seems like just given the withdrawal rate, which is very reasonable, you know, that you could put that to work as well. And even though the, you'd have capital gains tax on the profits, you know, you could over time, hopefully grow that, and at least maintain what you're pulling out, if not even see that increase. But I think, regardless of what you do with that quarter of a million, I think the idea that you would slowly, you know, pull money out of that, in order to be able to maximize contribution to the 403 Roth is a great idea just because of the power of that Roth IRA. Okay, great.

All right. I'm glad to hear I'm sort of in the in the right line of thinking with it. Hey, I think you absolutely are. The only thing I might add, Steve, that you could consider is doing some some true retirement planning with an advisor, where you could go a little bit deeper to say, okay, let's say I do max out this 403 B Roth, you know, for the next 30 years, what is my ultimate goal? What is my finish line? And I think that's an there's a number that you can assign to that that's just reasonable based on maintaining whatever lifestyle you believe God has called you to beyond your working years to age 95 or whatever age you want to pick. So we can back into that with a math equation. But then there's just kind of the the non-financial side, which is between you and the Lord or and if you're married between you and your spouse and the Lord that just says, how much is enough? And I think we need to decide that for both our lifestyle spending, our monthly spending, but also our accumulation, our balance sheet.

And I suspect if you continue on this track, you will have the potential to over accumulate beyond even what you would decide is your financial finish line. And if that's the case, knowing that now so that you could either accelerate your giving today, or in the future, I think would be really helpful and having an advisor who understands a biblical worldview, I think would really be helpful in all of that analysis. Does that make sense?

It does. Yeah, I appreciate that. I agree.

I don't want to use it just for myself. I do want to do other things and help others. Yeah, well, and I love the idea of not waiting to give it to death only. Not that you're not giving anything, but you may be able to accelerate it today. I love what Ron Blue, the author says, he says, do your giving while you're living so you're knowing where it's going.

And I think that's a good rule to live by. Hey, there's some wonderful Certified Kingdom Advisors there in Lancaster, PA. You can find one if you don't have an advisor at our website, faithfi.com. Just click find a professional, faithfi.com. God bless you, Steve. Thanks for calling. We'll be back with more of your questions just around the corner.

Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We've got some lines open, 800-525-7000 is the number to call. We'd love to hear from you.

Let's go to Miles City, Montana. Hi, Randy. Go ahead.

Hi, Rob. Thanks for taking my call. Yes, sir.

Given the current financial uncertainty worldwide, my wife's 401k has been losing money the last couple years and we were considering cashing it out and paying off our debt so we would be debt free. Or do you think it would be better to ride it out and see what happens? Yeah. So give me just a sense of what you've got here. What's roughly the balance today on that 401k? I have no idea. Okay. What are you fluctuating? It's been fluctuating so much that, yeah, I mean, as far as actual amounts of anything, I don't know right off the top of my head what, you know, yeah, I know that it's invested through various things through her employment.

She's 60 and plans on working until she's probably 65 or more. So, okay. Very good mortgage. And I wonder if we pay off the mortgage or, or just let it ride.

Yeah, yeah. Do you have a sense of what she's down over the last 12 or 24 months percentage wise? Oh, it's it's been like 20%. She's down 20% on it?

That's pretty sure that's what in that neighborhood. Okay. All right.

Yeah. You know, I mean the market obviously has been challenging, although there's been some strength toward the end of last year. I realized prior to that it was very narrow. It was highly concentrated. The performance of the market to the upside was highly concentrated toward a very small set of high growth, major tech companies that expanded a bit toward the end of last year.

And I would have hoped that that this would have recovered. I do think it's worth having somebody look at the asset allocation just to say, you know, where are we positioned? What percent is to stocks and what type of stocks international domestic small large cap? And what portion is in fixed income? Are we taking too much risk and trying to pinpoint why it's down so much?

If in fact it is off, you know, that percentage or even anywhere close to that over 24 months, that would be surprising just given how strong the market has been as of late. But with that said, I think this is a worthwhile question. Now, here's the reality though. Should you pull it out and pay off your debts? Well, I guess the first question is, is this 401k with a current employer? Yes.

Okay. So you wouldn't be able to pull it out until she separates from employment typically. Now, they may allow it, but in either case, if she's doing that, it would all be added to your taxable income. So that would be a very expensive tax bill that you would get on those withdrawals. What type of debt would you be paying off? Yes, the mortgage is the only debt we have anymore.

All right. And how much do you own the mortgage? 60,000. 60,000.

And what's the interest rate roughly? Do you know? It's actually pretty good. I think it's at two. Yeah.

Yeah, that's phenomenal. And then what do you think you have in this 401k roughly? I mean, are we talking 200,000, 500,000?

I mean, how much do you think is in there roughly? I'm 200,000. Okay. All right.

Yeah. So, you know, apart from you just really having a conviction, you and your wife, Randy, of being debt-free, which if you did, I'd say, great, go for it, pay it off, and don't look back. But given where that interest rate is, and given that, you know, especially with inflation where it is being, it certainly was a lot higher than we're accustomed to, you know, in the last couple of years, it's elevated now, even though it's much better than it was. You know, we need to keep this money, in my view, invested. Now, the question is invested in what? And I think that's where, you know, as you're approaching retirement at 65, you know, I would typically say, you know, you probably want to be about 40% in stocks, about 60% in fixed income as a starting point, and you could decide to get more conservative or more aggressive from on either side of that. And maybe you have a smaller allocation of precious metals. But that allows you to have some growth component to the portfolio that will help you offset inflation and be able to allow you to pull some amount out every month. Now, I can understand why it's concerning that you've lost a good bit of value, but I think going to the sideline, you know, not only the taxable event by taking the withdrawal, but just getting it out of the market, even, you know, the bond market, you know, I think leaves you with very few investment options. Now, there are more options today because of where interest rates are. So you could put it in a CD and make a good bit of money, you know, 5% plus, but that's not going to last forever. And I would rather you all get repositioned into a portfolio that makes sense for your age and risk tolerance and long term goals. So we have the option to let this grow, not taking an unnecessary amount of risk, but still give us the ability to offset inflation and allow you all to draw an income from it at some point down the road to supplement Social Security. So I guess my preference would be you connect with an advisor who can look at the menu of choices inside the 401k, perhaps get you and your wife repositioned today, maybe even doing an analysis on how have you actually done over the last one to, you know, five years versus the market. And then when it's time to roll it out to an IRA, either continue that same conservative investment strategy, maybe even getting a little bit more conservative at that point, or using an insurance product like an annuity to maybe get a guaranteed rate of return and transfer the risk away from the markets to the insurance company. That's typically not my first choice. But if you all are just really concerned about volatility, and the potential for loss of principal, that's one way to mitigate that risk. And then you just keep moving toward paying off the mortgage over the rest of your working life, you know, through your current payments, and if possible, an extra payment or two a year, and just continue to ride that out, especially with this low interest rate. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. So to get the advice, just go to faithfi.com or connect with Sunline Investing. That's right, either would be a great option. If you want to find a certified kingdom advisor there in Montana, you're right, you'd go to faithfi.com, click find a professional at the top of the page, and I'd interview, you know, one or two or three and find one that's a good fit.

And they can help you analyze the current investment mix inside the 401k, and then beyond that could potentially help you manage the money when, you know, once she separates from her employer. Sure. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks so much for the information. I appreciate it.

You're welcome. Thanks for your call today. Let's see, we're going to be talking into a break here in just a moment. Jerry Boyer is up around the corner, and so we'll talk to Jerry, get his take on what's happening in the markets. Plus, Jerry and I were just together down at the Kingdom Advisors Conference, and he and David Bonson, who's Chief Investment Officer of the Bonson Group, had a fascinating conversation around God's design for economics and work, and some of the beliefs, even among believers, I think, where we've gotten away from God's understanding or design for work and creating us in His image as a worker. We'll talk a little bit about some of that and hopefully get back to a few more calls before we finish the broadcast. All that's just around the corner on Faith and Finance Live.

Stay with us. Hey, great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live here on Moody Radio. I'm Rob West.

In this segment, Jerry Boyer joins us with his market commentary. Jerry, you and I were together. We don't get to see each other that often. It was great to be with you at the KA Conference this week. It really was. Right.

I mean, we talk every week, but, you know, we don't get to see each other. And that's always a treat. So that was very nice. And it was great. Not just great to see you, but it was great to see the success of the conference. It's amazing what a community this has become, how much it's grown, not just in terms of number of people, but in terms of quality of conversation, quality of leaders.

There's nothing better out there. You know, everyone wants to go to Davos, wants to get an invitation to Davos, where these Masters of the Universe get together. This was a far better conversation. This is the actual ticket that you want.

If you want wisdom about finances and economics, what you want to do is go to KA. Well, thank you. I couldn't agree more. I'll tell you, it was just fun to see how many folks were just passionate about seeing impact through their line of work, which, as you said, I think appropriately in your session, you are the financial pastors of the day, right?

They are. And it seems to me that this is just the right time for the to become so many more kingdom advisors, because as as the economy is getting more and more volatile and more and more uncertain as risk levels are rising, as there's a lot of uncertainty and uncertainty in markets, because uncertainty with leaders in a situation like that, what you need are people at that pastoral level that when things are going on in the world, when terrible things are going on in the world, when you have wars, when you have political disruption and polarization, there's really not there's not a lot of hope there. But you do have hope in your local congregation. You know, your pastor can give you hope. Your Christian community can give you hope. OK, but they don't know much about money.

That's that's all right. I'm not blaming pastors for not knowing much about money, but they don't know much about money. So financial advisors are kind of financial pastors. And if there's a lot of uncertainty in the world of finance and economics and there is and I think there's going to be a lot more, it really is time for the financial pastors to step up as time for for us to depend on them. And it's time that these people become little fonts of financial wisdom at a human scale to kind of get us through the tough times that we're going through now and perhaps more tough times that we're going to go through in the future. Yeah, that's well said, Jerry.

We'll come back to that in a moment, because I want to talk about some of the themes you and David Bonson unpacked in your session. But first, give us the update on the markets. Perhaps it's not time to to wave the victory flag on the Fed and inflation quite yet.

I know it isn't. And yet there's been a lot of victory flag waving. I mean, a lot, you know, towards the end of last year, parts of this year, it was basically the consensus of the media that we have a soft landing and everything's fine. Inflation is beaten and the economy is doing beautifully, except that doesn't turn out to be true. Last month, the CPI, which is the top line inflation, is the inflation of stuff we buy.

The people listening to me right now buy as consumers. That was higher than expected, higher than the Fed target. And then today we got the PPI, which is basically wholesale.

Right. So if you're a small business and you buy wholesale, well, that that was up more than expected. So inflation clearly hasn't been beaten. Also, we got some other numbers this week, you know, retail sales, etc., that also indicated a slowing down of the economy. So it wasn't so long ago.

I mean, like just a few weeks ago that basically there was a consensus among experts. Inflation is over. Growth is back. We've got a soft landing. And now it's turning out we're getting a little bit more of a crash landing, not a crash, but a crash landing. You know, there's like sparks are flying and we're kind of coming down or hitting the, you know, no one's going to die from it, but it's ugly.

And it certainly isn't the kind of landing we're looking for. So we've got a slowing economy and we still haven't beaten inflation. And that creates a real dilemma because the Fed thinks, OK, to fight inflation, we have to slow down the economy. But the economy is already slowing down.

So what do they do? I mean, honestly, that's the problem. Once you create these distortions through bubbles, there's really no easy way out.

So if if if Powell called me, what should I do? It's like I go back in a time machine and not create the bubble in the first place, because once you're here, there is no painless way out. You're just going to have to muddle through here. We're going to have higher than expected inflation and lower than expected growth. That's called stagflation.

We had that in the 1970s. That's not happening because of what's happening now. That that was inevitable once the bubble was created.

That's what people don't get. There comes a time when there have been enough bad decisions that you have to have pain when you create the bubble. The bust is inevitable at that point.

You can kind of make it a slower bubble bursting or a faster bubble bursting, you know, rip, you know, rip the Band-Aid off and make it faster, but more painful. But there's no way out of that distortion when markets have to respond to reality. So this back and forth thing, unstable leadership, that takes me back to the conference. That's when you need fixed principles.

That's when you need coaches and financial pastors to help you understand what's going on, to help you understand concern, which is different than panic, and get through this system with your finances intact and your emotions intact and be a load-bearing structure to the people around you who are consumed with financial anxiety. Yeah, that's well said, Jerry. One of the solutions to this long term is returning to a biblical worldview of work, which was one of the themes that you and David Bahnson, the chief investment officer at the Bahnson Group, were talking about. And I was just so encouraged hearing you talk, and also discouraged because what you were pointing out is that even in the Christian community, it seems like, you know, even not so long ago, we got away from a biblical worldview of work, and it has permeated not only our culture, but the Church.

Talk about that. Yeah, and I'm not sure that the Church is even as good as average when it comes to the rest of the world, that maybe there's an even more of an anti-work ethic, because there's a sort of pious sounding reason, right? Well, that, you know, money is not the meaning of life. Well, of course money isn't the meaning of life, but that has nothing to do, just because money isn't the meaning of life doesn't mean you shouldn't work hard. You should work hard because that's what we're created to do as human beings, because that's the mandate that God has given. And it's really nice that money comes along with that, and you can use that money.

You can use that money to take care of your family, you can enjoy it, and you can use that money to take care of the poor and to fund the kingdom. But work is an imperative that's not just about money. So kind of the Christian ambiguous attitude about wealth has kind of become a Christian ambiguous attitude about work, where there's a lot, you're almost discouraged from working too hard. But we live in a situation where we've got a worker shortage because they have a work ethic shortage, and Christians should not be pulling back on work ethic, we should be pulling forward on work ethic like we have historically.

You would not have the modern economy if you didn't have the Christian revivals, if you didn't have the Wesleyan revival which made possible the industrial revolution in England, if you didn't have the first great awakening in England in the United States, the second great great awakening, you would not have the modern prosperity where people live to 80 rather than 35, where infant mortality is rare, where starvation has disappeared in at least many parts of the world and is disappearing really around the world, you would not have had that if you had not had a biblical work ethic tied to the revivals. In the past, when you had a spiritual revival, you had a work ethic revival too. We didn't revive ourselves just into church. We also we didn't revive ourselves at all.

God didn't just revive us into church services, although worship is clearly part of the Christian life, but revived us as his image bearer is going out there to work. We need that right now because we have worker shortage. One of the reasons we have inflation is because we have shortages of supply, and one of the reasons we have a shortage of supplies, we have a shortage of workers. Part of that is we have a shortage of people because of abortion, but the people who are here are retiring earlier, they're getting into work later, they're working half-time when they could work full-time, a lot of young people who really could work are kind of more into video games or self-fulfillment.

Basically, at every age group, we have people who are employed who basically don't show up, they call that quiet quitting. We have a work ethic problem, and they used to call it the biblical work ethic or the Protestant work ethic, although Catholics definitely can have a Protestant work ethic too. We cannot be a global economic leader if we don't get that work ethic that came from our Puritan forebears that was preached from pulpits. From the pulpit, they preached from the book of Proverbs about not being lazy.

We don't have that anymore, and if we don't have that, we really can't be the economy that we should be. Yeah, it's well said, Jerry, and I think it's just a really important point that it's not a matter of, well, let me hurry up and get to the end of my, you know, 65 years so I can go do something that's meaningful. You know, I love the idea that, you know, what God gifted us to do, the skills and abilities we have, which is probably what you're using right now in the context of your working years, is actually a blessing to humanity because you're providing for the needs of others and meeting those needs, and that's not just your customers, but every part of the supply chain is benefiting from your work, right?

Yes, and you're glorifying God by being the thing that he made you to be, you know, and David talked about this a little bit. His book is called Full-Time, and that's partly a response to the idea that some people have that you spend the first half of your life making money, that's success, and then the second half of your life you spend in non-profit volunteering. That's significance. Well, what does that say if you're moving from success to significance and you have to wait till maybe you're 50 or 60 to do that, yeah, and you sell your business and now you're wealthy, you know, so now you can go serve. What does that say about the first half of your life? That it wasn't significant? That working hard, providing for your family, glorifying God by being excellent at what you do, that the five or six days a week you were working, that wasn't significant? That you don't become significant until you retire and then go volunteer in a soup kitchen?

Like David said, you know, you can volunteer in a soup kitchen at 40 or 30 too. It's all significant. It's all of it significant, and that's what I think we're missing.

Yeah. Well, it's a great place to end today, Jerry. I appreciate that reminder. I think it's something we need to talk a lot more about, but listen, you enjoy your weekend. You worked hard this week, so enjoy some rest with Susan and the family, and we'll talk to you next week.

Same to you. God bless. All right, that's Jerry Boyer. That's going to do it for us, folks.

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