The Bible’s Financial Wisdom

For the Lord gives wisdom, from his mouth come knowledge and understanding. Proverbs 2 6.

I am Rob West. You may have heard us say that the Bible has more than 2300 verses related to money and possessions. Sharon Epps joins us today for a fascinating discussion on the depth and breadth of financial wisdom found in God's Word. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, Sharon Epps is in the studio with me today. Sharon is the president of Kingdom Advisors, our parent organization.

Kingdom Advisors is dedicated to training financial professionals to guide and advise you according to biblical principles. And Sharon, it's great to have you back. I think we can still say Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.

I'm delighted to have you here for the first time this year. I know there'll be many more to come. But I'm looking forward to today because we're going to kind of do a flyover of biblical financial wisdom, right? We are. I just think it's helpful sometimes to step back and have a high level overview of what God's Word says about financial principles and how they fit together.

So we're going to fly over about 10 of those real quickly. All right, well, let's dive in. Where do you want to start today? Well, one of the best places to start, I think, is with our cash flow and living expenses, primarily because that's where we live and what we think about most often. And the principle there, you've heard it here on Faith and Finance, is we need to spend less than we earn. Philippians says, I've learned to be content in whatever situation I am in. And the Apostle Paul knew exactly what we needed to hear, that we need to be content wherever God's placed us and reduce our living expenses when we can as one of the fastest ways to increase our cash flow.

Yeah, so a lot of folks out there listening today, they may be feeling the pinch, struggling a bit. Obviously, increasing cash flow can come from income or expenses. You're saying the expenses are the quickest way to do it. I'm interested, though, Sharon, why you go to contentment as it relates to spending less than you earn.

What's the connection between the two? Well, if we're not content with what we have, how can God entrust us with more? And so starting with where we are is the best place to start.

I love it. That's so true. All right, what's next? Well, believe it or not, focus on your children. Train your children. Proverbs 22 says, train up a child in the way he should go. And even when he is old, he won't depart from it. And when we say train children, it means be an example, because they catch what we do more than what we say.

Yeah, that's so true, Sharon. And we can obviously train them in the financial literacy. And that's important, how to balance a checkbook if we still use checkbooks, how to understand the power of compound interest and the dangers of debt. But we also need to teach them a biblical worldview of money as well. Absolutely.

All right, very good. The next area is related to borrowing. It's another biggie. It's of course not a sin, but definitely something God wants us to be careful about, right? Well, Proverbs 22 says, the rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave of the lender. And I sure have seen that many, many times. And I think the things we need to remember is that borrowing can deny God an opportunity to work or to provide for us.

And it always presumes on the future. Yeah, that's so good. Sharon, I know there's been some helpful questions we've shared in the past for folks that are considering borrowing. Will you cover those for us?

Yes, there's four of them. The first one is we don't want to borrow unless the economic return is greater than the economic cost. Secondly, do you have unity with your spouse? That's an important thing in all matters in our finances. Third, is there not any other alternative?

Have you considered the alternatives? And then finally, is there a guaranteed way to repay a way that we believe is certain and that we're not betting on something out there that might happen? Yeah, and that's where we get into this idea of surety that the Bible talks about. We want that sure way to repay. All right, one more before we take our first break.

Of course, this one has to do with where a lot of folks have been here at the start of the year, right? Absolutely. It's the importance of goal setting. And Proverbs 16 three says, commit your work to the Lord and your plans will be established. And so when we prayerfully set goals, it's a way that we commit our work to the Lord. And we say, Lord, not my will, but yours be done. Yeah, I love what the founding director of Kingdom Advisors Ron Blue says.

He says, write your goals in the sand on the seashore. And that way you're ready to allow them to be changed as the Lord leads. We do. Yes. All right.

Well, Sharon Epps is here today. We're talking about biblical financial principles. You know, here on faith and finance each day, we want to encourage you from God's word to have a biblical worldview when it comes to money and financial decision making. That starts with God's word and these 2,300 verses that are in the Bible about money and possessions.

But what are those principles? Well, many more of them we'll cover just around the corner. Sharon Epps is president of Kingdom Advisors. I'm Rob West, and we'll be right back. Stick around. So thankful to have you with us today on faith and finance live.

I'm Rob West with me today. Sharon Epps, president of Kingdom Advisors. By the way, you can learn more about Kingdom Advisors at kingdomadvisors.com. Perhaps you're a financial professional wanting to integrate your faith and your practice.

kingdomadvisors.com will be a great place for you to start. Sharon, as you know, we're covering the waterfront today as it relates to biblical financial wisdom and a lot of folks are surprised to hear that money is almost the most talked about topic in the Bible. It is. We like to say there's over 2,300 verses that have something to do with money.

Yeah. And so we're going to give you some of those principles today. Before the break we talked about many of them. We talked about the importance of goal-setting according to biblical wisdom, spending less than you earn, the dangers of debt, and training up the next generation of children. Sharon, I want to turn the corner and this is a topic that a lot of folks don't want to think about, but tax time is right around the corner. What do we take out of God's word related to the paying of taxes? Well, believe it or not, Jesus even spoke to this in Luke 20-25.

He said to them, then render to Caesar the things that are Caesars and to God the things that are God. And I think the main thing is we need to remember that taxes are always symptomatic of income. We would not need to pay any taxes if we didn't have income.

That's right. And reducing taxes will always cost you something. So often people look for tax deductions that actually caused them to spend more to get to the deduction. Yeah, so if I see taxes as symptomatic of God's provision, then I can actually, and I'm actually going to say this, I can actually rejoice in the paying of taxes, is that right? We can, because we know that God provided.

All right, I like it. All right, let's move to another biggie, and this is the area of investing. What does God's word say about investing?

Well, first of all, remember that this is a flyover. We certainly can't say everything, but I think one of the verses that's really helpful to us is Ecclesiastes 11, 1 and 2 where it says, cast your bread upon the waters for you will find it after many days, give a portion to seven or even to eight for you know not what disaster may happen on the earth. And there's so many principles embedded in that verse. We want to diversify. We want to get rich slowly. And with everything, we want to be sure that our spouses are in agreement. Now, there's a lot going on outside of us in this investment realm. And so economic uncertainty is going to be certain. We won't always know that we made exactly the right decision. Cycles are normative, and we need to seek godly counsel because of this.

We can't just go it alone. Yeah, that's really helpful. And I think those principles are so key. We certainly see those play out anytime we're investing. All right, this next area to look to related to biblical wisdom involves net worth.

We talked about investing. When we invest over the long haul, it helps to build our net worth. But how do we think about our balance sheet or our net worth in light of biblical truth? Well, first of all, let's make sure we know what net worth is. Net worth is simply the things that I own, less the things that I owe, and what's left over is our net worth. And so often we tend to get net worth and self-worth intertwined. And we think if our net worth increases, our self-worth increases. And that's just not God's principles. In fact, Proverbs 23, four and five says, Do not toil to acquire wealth. Be discerning enough to desist.

When your eyes light on it, it's gone, for suddenly it sprouts wings flying like an eagle toward heaven. And I think the main point there is that money is a tool to accomplish God's purposes and to accomplish goals he has for us on earth, and that we can't rely on that net worth to have our own security. And we need to answer that question, how much is enough and how much could be too much?

Yeah, that's really helpful. And this, of course, involves our balance sheet, our net worth. You gave us a definition of that. So we need to answer the question, how much is enough to accumulate? We also need to answer the how much is enough question for our monthly spending or what you might call our lifestyle. Yes, on both sides of the equation, that cash flow that we talked about at the very first, as well as our balance sheet. How have you counseled people in determining enough?

What does that look like? Well, I think it's individual to every family. In fact, it's why we recommend that you have a certified kingdom advisor to help you through that process. But we look at what goals God's laid on our hearts, the plans, see, this is how it's all intertwined, the plans that he's put before us that we need to accomplish. And when we look at those things, we can begin to draw a picture of how much is enough for now and for in the future and ask the Lord, what would you have us to do with everything above that? Now also say, the Lord might interrupt your plans and actually have you give or invest some that was in your enough. So it's a continual conversation with the Lord about what he wants us to keep for the future and what he wants us to give away. I love that. Yeah, that's so helpful.

All right, let's move along. This next one comes up in a question we get once in a while, Sharon, is insurance and specifically life insurance biblical? Well, you know, I think the concept of insurance is one of providing for your family.

And I'm thinking about how my family can be taken care of when I might be gone. And certainly that concept of provision is biblical. It doesn't indicate a lack of faith. It actually indicates planning, like we were talking about, and asking the Lord to show us what is the best amount of insurance for our family's needs.

And by the way, that changes over time and in different seasons of your life. Yeah, it sure does. And Sharon, I know you've had these calls before and counseled folks in this situation. I can think of a caller just last week who her husband passed away, but he was providing even in his death through life insurance and that weight that was lifted knowing that I can continue to cover my bills because this is now available to me is just so significant.

Yes, it can be a huge blessing. All right. This next one covers a lot of ground.

Tell us what it is. Well, as we're doing this high flyover, these last couple, I want to just take us to the heart of the matter. And this is a concept of life planning. And the reason that we like this concept is that life planning is not just about our financial capital.

It involves spiritual capital and social capital as well. And that's why it's so important is because our finances are a tool to accomplish the spiritual things and the social things that God's put on our heart. And we're going to always have simultaneous and competing priorities. And we're going to have to always make choices. And our decisions are not independent of one another.

When I decide to do option A, it automatically means that I'm not doing option B. And so the more that we can have a long term perspective, the better we can make those decisions and those trade offs. And sometimes we exhibit financial maturity when we're able to give up today's desires for those longer term benefits.

Oh, yeah. And there's this principle that I know you talk about often that the longer term, the perspective, the better the financial decision will make today. And folks, if you think about that, you'll know that it's true.

It's easy to say it's harder to do. But if you can keep that in mind, you will make better decisions. All right, Sharon, unfortunately, we're getting short on time. But I know you wanted to end with a question for our listeners today, didn't you?

I do. I think the main thing that we want to remember is that God owns it all. And our role is a trustee or a steward. And in that role, oftentimes we need counsel and we need certified kingdom advisors who are able to walk alongside of us to help walk us through all of these principles and how they apply to our situation. And so I just wanted to point out today, are you a CPA, a financial advisor or another financial professional that your heart beats a little stronger when you hear us talk about these things and you'd like to integrate these faith concepts? We would really encourage you to go to kingdomadvisors.com slash get certified and learn more about how to teach these. All right, financial advisors, check it out today. Kingdomadvisors.com slash get certified. Now, if you need a certified kingdom advisor, head to faithfi.com.

And right there at the top of the page, it'll say find a CPA. All right. It's time for your questions. And Sharon, you're going to stick around and take questions with me today, right? I will. All right. I always enjoy that.

And I know you do, too. So let's talk about what you're thinking about in your financial life today. You've got to take the next step. Call right now, 800-525-7000. We'll be right back. The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or professional opinions of the participants given for informational purposes only.

Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your specific situation. We're so thankful to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. Sharon Epps is here today, Sharon is president of Kingdom Advisors, and we'll be tackling your questions today on anything financial.

We covered the waterfront in biblical wisdom related to finances today. Let's do the same with your questions. So what are you thinking about today? We've got a few lines open. We'd love to tackle your question today at 800-525-7000.

Again, that's 800-525-7000. Sharon, one of the topics we didn't talk about is God's view on work. And I know Alan wants to talk about that in Saskatchewan, Canada. Alan, go ahead, sir. Hey, good day, you guys. Great show. Thank you, Rob. Thank you, Sharon, for all that you're doing for the kingdom. When you tell people about over 2300 scriptures on money in the Bible, somebody don't realize that, then it's actually quite amazing.

Best success book ever. So I retired a year ago and just was doing things around and ended up going back to work. And it did something to my spirit, and I'm not sure exactly how to explain it. Somebody said, well, it's giving you purpose. And I've often wondered where it talks about retirement in the Bible and just that definition.

I have an idea. I've been told that retirement was brought in to replace the older people in an organization that are drawing more income and replacing them with lower income people. Just give me an idea of what you both think about where retirement comes from and what it means. And also, I've been told that we're the most we contribute the most to society between 60 and 80 years of age. Yes, that's so good. It's a fabulous question. Sharon, you want to take it first?

I'd love to. One fact, a little known fact, is the retirement age of 65 actually came about when life expectancy, I think, was somewhere around 67 or 68. And so even just in the U.S., this idea of retirement had a lot to do with a lot closer to the end of lifespan.

But if we turn to the word of God, the Book of Numbers is where we really find the really only concept of retirement. And it was in the context of the Levites that were serving in the temple. And in that context, they were actually just moved in service from the more physical labor in the tent of meaning to more of service to others. So you could almost even call it a mentorship. So even in that, quote, example of retirement, they were moving to a different position, not quite as physical, and they were able to serve others. And I really think that that's a great I love what you said about just our biggest impact in our later years.

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And so when we take that and then apply it to this modern concept of retirement, that there's this age at which we should get a gold watch and a check for life and, you know, walk the shores of the beach, there's nothing wrong with leisure and rest and those rhythms God created, but he also created us to be workers and our calling doesn't have an expiration date. So I think it's this idea of retiring to something and not from something.

And what's fascinating is science. God's creation backs this up. You know, when we retire to a life of leisure without, you know, understanding our calling in that season of life and move into more of a permanent kind of rest and relaxation rhythm, our health declines. And it's, I think, in part due to the fact that we were created in the image of the ultimate worker, God himself, who was a worker.

We see that on full display in creation. And I think you bring up a great point, which is if we retire to something, then this season of life is that one where we have the most in terms of skills and wisdom and abilities to bring to bear in God's service and for his glory, even though the context may change. So you hear us talking about retirement savings, but I think it's a different purpose. It's being able to provide for yourself because you may not be able physically to work for pay in that season of life. So you want to be able to continue to maintain whatever lifestyle God has called you to and allow a spouse to continue to do the same. But we're always asking the question, Lord, what do you have for me in this season?

And we pursue that, I think, in every facet of life. You know, there's a great book, Alan, that I think would be a blessing to you that I'd love to send to you just as our gift to you. It's called An Uncommon Guide to Retirement.

Jeff Hainan, who's actually on our board at Kingdom Advisors, is the author. The subtitle is Finding God's Purpose for Your Next Season of Life. And Jeff just has a wonderful articulation, I think, of a biblical worldview of retirement. He talks about the importance of sabbatical rest in retirement. I think that's key. But then also listening to God's voice for your calling and then rethinking the continuation of work in retirement, understanding family systems, leaving a legacy.

Those are all things I think we need to be considering. And so, Alan, if you stay on the line, we'll send you a copy of it as our gift to you. But give us your thoughts on all that. Well, you've brought me to tears, because you've answered something that I haven't been able to answer for myself.

You mentioned mentorship, and I've felt that in the workplace that I've been in, the different workplaces, and I've been blessed with having different places that I can work, that I feel like I'm mentoring, that I feel like I'm there with some experience. And so you've filled it. And thank you for numbers sharing. Thank you for sharing that. So it's going to something.

Instead of retiring from something, you're retiring to something. And good words, Rob, having enough that you can do that if you're not physically able to look after yourself if you're not physically able to work. So good. And I appreciate the book, Rob.

Thank you so much. I look forward to that. Absolutely, Alan. Well, you've been an encouragement to us, my friend. And so thanks for your call today and your great question. Just stay on the line.

Our team will pick up the line, get your information, and we'll get that right out to you. But, Sharon, that's one of those biblical ideas, this idea of work that comes right out of the scriptures. It does. Ephesians 2 10 is my favorite verse on work and retirement because it says we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. So keep walking in those works, whether it's paid or unpaid.

Yeah, that's exactly right. Man, what a great word. Well, we're just getting started here, folks. We've got still more than half the program to go. So what are you thinking about today? Let's continue the conversation as we mind the scriptures and apply God's wisdom to your financial life. Our hope and prayer is that we'd be an encouragement to you in that today. We're going to take a quick break and then back with much more just around the corner.

The number to call with lines open is 800-525-7000. Stick around. Well, welcome back to Faith and Finance Live. I'm Sharon Epps and I'm sitting in the studio today with Rob West. It's such a joy to talk with you today and we're helping connect God's wisdom to your practical financial decisions. And so June, thanks for joining us from Illinois today.

How can we help you? Yes. Typically, I'm thinking of the money that we have in stocks and treasury notes and CDs and that. We tied our regular money, and I don't want to be legalistic, but I think the money that we put aside should also be considered part of our giving to God. And I wonder if we should give it now.

Would it be more convenient for the children and for tax reasons to get more benefit from it or to wait and have it in the will distributed? Oh, June, thank you for your heart for generosity and for giving. You're reflecting really the image of our generous God and thinking about that. You know, I think when we think of investment returns, sometimes it's easy to forget the eternal returns that can come when we're generous. And so I think part of it is what has God put on your heart? It's always better to give now if we're able to, just because it gets the money out and invested in the kingdom and helping make a difference for eternity. And so as you as you balance that question out, think through your goals, your values, what's important to you and the ministries that you would like to give to. We always encourage you to give as much as God leads you to while you're living, because you actually get the joy of seeing what happens and you have more control. Yeah, that's right. You know, our friend Ron Blue, who Sharon and I know well, he says in his book Splitting Airs, do you're given while you're living so you're knowing where it's going. And we always smile when we hear that.

But it's true. I think in many respects, it's this idea that we can get what God has entrusted to us into God's economy, into circulation in the kingdom now. And I think to your point, June, we can use it as a learning opportunity for the kids. And so if you were to use, let's say in this term may not be familiar to you, but a donor advised fund where you'd actually make a gift to a fund, the money at that point has been given away. So you get a current tax deduction, but then you and your kids together could then grant the money out over time. You could do it all at once.

You could do it, you know, over years, but then you could make those gifts together. And one of the joys of that is not only is the money into circulation in God's economy sooner, but you get to model that and work with them and be involved in the decision making. And what a joy in this season of life for you to be able to work with your kids to give that money away.

I think that would be a real blessing to them. And then the final thing I would say is this where this is where I think the work of a certified kingdom advisor can come in June, somebody to help you calculate what we call enough. It's you might think of it as a financial finish line, helping you and your husband determine how much is enough for us for the rest of our lives. And you consider that prayerfully.

That's not a number anybody else can tell you, but that advisor can help you through the mechanics of that. And then once you define enough, now you're free to give more today for all the reasons that we've already said. And if you wanted to find a certified kingdom advisor there in Illinois, you could do that on our website at faithfi.com.

But give us your thoughts on all that, June. Yes, I was wondering, like, if it'd be better to give different Christian ministries of stocks and the CDs and cash to the kids. What are the advantages of that? Yeah, there are some advantages. And this is where the planning comes in, because it will depend in part on where are those assets now?

How are they held? So, for instance, if those stocks and CD are in what we call taxable accounts, meaning they're outside of a retirement account, then yeah, absolutely. By giving and then selling, meaning you give the stocks to the ministry or your church or charity, then you don't pay any capital gains. They get the full benefit of the gift and everybody wins. If it's in an IRA, after 70 and a half, you could use a qualified charitable distribution to give it away and not recognize it as income, which you otherwise would. With the kids, you could put it in a donor advised fund and then together you could all give it away or you could just give it to them outright as a gift. There's no taxes on that. You can do up to 18,000 this year and then you can go up to 13 million beyond that.

You wouldn't pay any tax. You just have to let the IRS know you made the gift. But you could express to them that your wishes are that they give it away or that, you know, you all give it away together after you give them the cash. So there's a variety of ways to do it. And I think that's where the the professional advice can be really helpful.

I've seen on a few things. Donor advisors, they don't accept it for certain campaigns they have. And I was wondering about that. Yeah, it does need to be a 501 C 3 charity. And the donor advised fund sponsor, which is the organization that holds the donor advised fund, does have some say over, you know, whether or not they'll allow the gift to be made, even though the gift originates with the donor.

So you do need to look into that. And that's why we often recommend our friends at the National Christian Foundation, ncfgiving.com. It was founded by, among others, Larry Burkett and Ron Blue. And they work with a lot of Christians to do just what we're talking about here through donor advised funds. What's the name of that organization, please? Sure. It's called the National Christian Foundation.

And you'll find them on the web at ncfgiving.com. Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

All right. Thank you for your call today. We appreciate you calling.

Well, let's go to Troy in Lakeland, Florida. Good afternoon. I hope you're warmer than we are. How you doing? Great.

It's hot here. I had a question for you. We've got 12 to $1600 a month freed up now, with no retirement, no 401k offered at work. Where would you put the money into?

Because I've checked. I've tried the crypto, then do too well. And I've been looking at different things and thinking about an index fund. Well, thanks. I'm glad you're beginning to think about retirement. Troy, do you mind asking how old are you?

45. All right, thanks for thanks for sharing that. Yeah, this is a great time to get started. As you think ahead towards planning for those years that you might not be able to work for income, I think one of the best ways to get started is through a Roth IRA, you pay taxes now on the income that you make, and you're able to put it in after tax so that later you can withdraw it tax free. And you can contribute up to 7000 a year into that fund. So that's that's a great way to get started and have it set aside for those purposes. And we do think index funds are a great way also to create diversity. So you're able to put that money in even in small amounts and have it diversified amongst different investments. And a lot of the funds these days are actually pegged to your target retirement date. So you could choose a fund that matches with the date you think you would retire.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And the nice thing is, if you're married, Troy, you didn't mention that. But if you are, you could have a spousal IRA between the two of you, you could put 14,000 that would just about cover your 12 to 1600 a month. If not, if you're self employed, you could look at something called a SEP IRA. But I think the key is, yeah, start contributing now, contribute systematically, get this into a properly diversified growth mutual fund. You know, an index fund could be a great option, you could even use something like the Schwab Intelligent Portfolio as a robo advisor. But I think you're on the right track, my friend. Hey, stay on the line. We'll send you a copy of the Soundmind Investing Handbook.

And I think that'll give you some additional information on investing. We'll be right back with much more on Faith and Finance Live. Stay with us. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live where we want God to be your ultimate treasure. Thanks for your calls today. We do have some lines open here in our final segment.

Sharon Epps and I, Rob West, are with you today. And we'd love to hear from you. If you have a question, you can call right now. 800-525-7000. Again, lines are open.

We've got room for a few more questions before we round out the broadcast today. Again, 800-525-7000. Hey, let me just mention quickly here at the start of a new year, perhaps you've got some debt. You'd like to develop a plan to get out of debt once and for all, but you're a little stuck.

You just don't know where to go from here. Well, we have a great opportunity for you to join a free workshop this Friday afternoon. That's right. This Friday, the 26th. So just two days from now at 2 Eastern Time, we've got 20 spots remain in our planning to be debt free workshop.

It's just 30 minutes. And we'd love for you to claim one of those spots at faithfi.com slash debt free. That's faithfi.com slash debt free. Gordon Johnson, a certified Christian financial counselor with stewardship principles, is going to be leading that.

He's been doing this for 35 years. He was trained by Larry Burkett and just loves to work with God's people in this area of money management. So if you'd like a plan to get out of debt, check that out today. Again, faithfi.com slash debt free. All right. Let's go to our calls. Sue in Ohio, you're up next. How can we help you today? Thank you for taking my call. I'm 62 lost my job and I am my income I'm pulling from my pension.

Is that a good ideal? Ah, well, I'm sorry that you lost your job. Tell me a little bit more about your desired work. Are you in the process of looking for another job?

I had been babysitting my grandchild and sort of taken up more time with that, where I haven't been able to really look for a job. So yeah, yeah. So and at right now the pension is your only access to living expenses.

Is that correct? I do have a savings because I had been accessing that, but I don't want to deplete that in case my car breakdown. I won't have any money to repair it. So yes, that pension is my only income. Yeah, generally the challenge with taking money out of a pension is that there can be penalties for taking it out before full retirement age.

I don't know all the terms of your company's plan. Is this potentially under a loan or is it actual withdrawal? I'm making withdrawals and I moved the pension to my investment account IRA so that I can use it if I needed it. Yeah, so you've rolled that out to an IRA. So yeah, you have access to the money and there's no penalty over 59 and a half. So it's all being added to your taxable income as you pull it out. So I think the question is just to Sharon's point, you know, if that's a source of funds, obviously we need to cover your monthly expenses.

Looking for ways to cut back on your monthly expenses is, you know, beneficial because we want to pull as little as possible. What did you say your age was, Sue? I'm 62. Okay. Yeah. So you're not taking Social Security yet.

I'd love for you to delay that. How much do you have in the pension? How much have you rolled to the IRA?

Initially was like 53,000 something, something. Okay. All right. And how much are you pulling out every month?

Well, I took my first withdrawal was 3000 after taxes, it was more like 2400. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And obviously, that's way more than we would want you to take, ideally, because you're going to be pulling that principal balance down every month, and that's going to happen pretty quickly. I mean, if you take, you know, in two years, that's going to be gone. And so the goal would be if you could find some income replacement, to be able to preserve as much of that IRA, which was your pension, preserve as much of that as possible, and let your Social Security continue to grow. Because if you take it now at 62, you're going to take about a between the 25 and 30% permanent reduction in that check. So is there a possibility you could go back and get some part time or full time work just to delay the the withdrawals?

Yes, it is. I'm just trying to wait for their my family's schedule to kind of change. So because when I'm doing childcare, it's more like a 24 hour childcare. So yeah, well, yeah, I think just, you know, having an honest conversation with your family about your needs at this point. I mean, the thing we don't want is for you to deplete all of those assets and have nothing to fall back on. So I think the ability for you, you to go out and find some work, bring in some income, eventually, we'll take Social Security. And that'll be a blessing because that'll be a monthly check that you could get. But I'd love to see you have some of that pension left when that time comes.

So I would just work to find some income replacement too. But listen, all the best to you. If we can help further along the way, don't hesitate to reach out to us. Let's go to Illinois. Hi, Amanda, go ahead.

Hi, thanks for taking my call. We set up my husband and I, my very first job out of college, a unit I work for shut down and I have this small 401k balance, we use my parents financial advisor at the time to get it out of that 401k. And he set up what I'm understanding as like a mutual fund account.

And I'm going to try not to sound too ignorant. But about $5,000 was put into that account account about 15 years ago. And every time I get the account statements, there's still just $5,000 in there.

My parents have gone on to another investment person. I'm just not exactly sure what we're able to do with this account, what we should do. I've worked as a contractor most of my career, I just got back into another job three years ago that's offering a 401k, that I am utilizing that. I don't know if I can put it in that or what I should do with this money. Yeah, very good. Well, you know, I think the key is to get that money working for you into a fund that is going to give you some good returns that has a good track record, low cost.

So you may want to look at pivoting, you know, to something else. I love the idea of you systematically contributing to your 401k. With regard to this account, our friends at soundmindinvesting.org could be a great resource for you. They're educational, their sound mind investing newsletter could even help connect you with some high quality growth mutual funds that are low cost that perhaps could be a replacement for this.

But I would learn more there when you go to soundmindinvesting.org and see if it doesn't make sense for you to make a change on that. Amanda, thanks for your call today. We appreciate it. Let's go quickly to Pembroke Pines, Florida. Hi, John, go ahead. Hi, thanks for taking my call.

So I had a question. I'm a financial coach, or starting a financial coach business for a couple years now. I have a my client is my cousin and her behavior is she's got some debt and she came into a large amount of money. Their account their teaching salary has been doubled for the next six months, and it would really help to get her credit card debt on. But her behavior, it's hard to manage it. So I feel like I'm having this battle between the boundary of how much do I force her to do stuff and just or how much do I keep my hands off and just kind of advise her.

I don't know what the boundary line is. Oh, John, I understand that. Well, first of all, it is a little bit more complex when it's a family member.

So I certainly understand that. I think that the question I would have is can you help her get deeper to her values and her goals? So the behavior is evidencing something that's a deeper belief. And so trying to get to that versus tackling the behavior might be a way to help her see that the behavior she's exhibiting is not super healthy for her. And I think as coaches and counselors, one of the things we have to realize is only the client can be responsible for their activities. And what we're to do is to point them to the word of God and then also ask good questions that they may not have thought of to help them uncover their goals.

Is there something more important to her that she wants to accomplish that would motivate her to pay off those credit cards rather than just telling her to do it? Is that helpful, John? No, that's really good. That's really good. Just as a separate totally nonrelated question about ourselves.

Yeah, we have just about a minute left. Go ahead. So it's really easy. My company just started offering a Roth 401k and I currently have a Roth IRA. Should I put more of my money into the Roth 401k because I can or should I keep doing it to both? Hmm.

That's a great question. So our friends at soundmindinvesting.org wrote an article on this recently and they cited some some research that's out that that looked at thousands of scenarios like you're describing to determine what is the right mix between the pre-tax traditional 401k and the post-tax Roth IRA. And here's the formula they came up with. And I'd love for you to read more about it. And I'm not saying you should necessarily do this, but just as a rule of thumb to give you an idea of where they concluded. They said, take your age, add 20 and put that in the traditional and then put the balance in the Roth.

And just based on all of their analysis, that was kind of the sweet spot of what they found through their research. So if you're 40, you'd put 40 plus 20 is 60. You'd put that in the traditional 401k. You put the balance in the Roth.

The idea being that you have both buckets growing and then you could choose which is the best one based on your income, the tax code, a lot of uncertainties that would be knowns down the road in retirement. Does that make sense? Great. That's awesome. All right. And where's that article on soundmindinvesting.com?

Soundmindinvesting.com or dot org. Yeah, you got it. OK. Thanks, John. We appreciate it. All right, Sharon, we appreciate you being here today. It's always fun to have you in the studio. I enjoyed it. Thank you.

All right. Hey, folks, we covered a lot of ground on biblical financial wisdom today. By the way, if you're an advisor and this resonates with you and you'd like to learn more about Kingdom Advisors and the certified Kingdom Advisor designation, check out kingdomadvisors.com and see if that might be the community you've been looking for. Hey, Faith and Finance Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith Five. Thank you to my team today, Anthony, Amy, Dan. Grateful for Jim Henry as well. And of course, Sharon Epps. I'm Rob West and we'll see you next time. Bye bye.