Learning Through Life’s Trials

Well, fall share may be over, but you know, you still have time to partner with Moody Radio in our mission to create Christ-centered programs and share Jesus boldly with the world, if that's what you want. And if you've been impacted by programs like the one that you're listening to, we're guessing you have been. Hey, would you consider giving? You can actually see our impact and learn more at fallshare.org.

That's fallshare.org. See you there. For the moment, all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. Hebrews 12, 11. I am Rob West. No doubt, every one of us can read that verse and think of a time when the Lord used a trial in our lives to teach us something of value. Chris Fabry joins us today to talk about that. Well, I'm delighted to have Chris Fabry as our special guest today.

If you don't know him as the incredibly popular Christian Network talk show host on Moody Radio, you probably have at least one of his books on your shelf. Chris, great to have you here, my friend. Rob, thanks for inviting me. I'm honored to be here. Well, I'm looking forward to our conversation. As you know, we're talking today about trusting God. I had a conversation with Tricia, your producer for Chris Fabry live recently, and she was just recounting this theme that had come up several times recently on your program around trusting God in difficult times, and how so often in situations like that, we can rush to the fix it rather than realizing it's a process. And seeing God at work in the mess. Talk to me a bit about what's been coming up and some of your thoughts on that.

Well, that to me is just the tip of the spear. That is the main thing that I struggle with the most. And I say I can say I believe in God and I trust God. But what how do I live my life? And I often what I'm seeing in my life is I'm grasping, I'm striving, I'm running on the treadmill and try to make things work in my own power. And it takes a work of God, you know, that that whole struggle with that struggle is not a sign of failure struggles, a sign of life. That's what my mentor, a radio pastor, Donald Cole, said a long time ago. And I really believe that that if you are struggling in your Christian life with something that you see that you're doing that you're not doing or you're not doing that you want to do, and there's a struggle there, it means that the Spirit is at work in your life, and you are being drawn toward that trust that he wants you to have as he conforms you to the image of his son, because that's his goal. He doesn't want just the outcome.

It's like, we could pray this way and all this happens over here. What he wants is the process. And part of the process is the struggle.

Yes, there's no doubt about that. Process is important. Chris, what are some of the keys to being open to God's voice and instruction in the midst of the difficulty and not closed off?

I think it's being well, and that's just even entertaining that. Are you going to be open to this? First, it's humility versus having the ability to say, and we pray this before my program and you were praying just a minute ago, Rob, before we went on, you know, God, get us out of the way. I want to be out of the way. I want you to do what you want to do here. I have my list of wants that I want.

What I need most of all is you. And so I think that's the biggest thing to be able to see how much I get in my own way and how much I get in God's way. The old hymn that we used to sing, or we'll walk by his side in the way. And I always saw myself in the way of Jesus.

You know, he's like, get out of the way, Chris, let me do it. And there's a truth to that, that I get so wrapped up in everything that I want to see happen or I want to do with my life and Lord make me a great person or whatever and make me have a lot of impact. And he just wants me to be his son.

He wants me to conform to the image of his son. And so as I keep that in mind, I think that's part of the process. Yeah, there's no doubt that it is. And I love what you said about getting out of the way. And in some respects, I guess we need to get to the end of ourselves, don't we?

Yeah. And that's the hard part, because if you get to the end of yourself, then you see that you're not in control. And your dependence is all on him. That's why it's not about everything that you can obey with God and all the good that you can do. And I'm not encouraging you not to.

But the main thing that God wants to do, especially with that verse that you started with, is allow him to bring you to a place where you are dependent on him, period. That's hard. That's hard.

Yes, it is. Well, I thought this was a show about biblical finance, and it is. So when we come back with Chris Fabry, we're going to apply this to your financial life.

What about that financial mess that you're in? How do we learn along the way and practice those disciplines that are going to take us where God ultimately wants to lead us? And what about trials that our kids are facing? Chris is a dad of nine. He's got some experience in that area.

We'll unpack that as well. Chris Fabry here today, and we'll be right back. I'm so thankful to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West with me today, my friend Chris Fabry, the host of Chris Fabry Live on Moody Radio, the author of many books.

In fact, he's got a new one coming out later this year that we'll talk about in just a moment. But the focus of our conversation today is trusting God in the midst of the difficult times. And Chris was sharing just before the break that it's a process that we need to learn to listen, that we need to get out of God's way and ultimately get to the end of ourselves. And Chris, this of course applies to the subject at hand on this broadcast each day, and that is our finances. When we find ourselves in a mess, we can do the hard work and be obedient and faithful, perhaps a steady plotter. Or we can try to fix it with that plastic, and that leads to a mess.

What thoughts do you have there? Well, the other way that I've tried to fix it is to work harder and longer and just get on the treadmill. And that's been one of the things as a person who's done freelance since 1999. So it's been 24 years that I've been kind of out on my own. When I have a job that comes in that I could do, it's very hard to say no to it. Because if you live in a scarcity mindset, this might not come around again, or I'll just work a little harder.

And what happens then is that you start to believe that you're doing this in your own strength. And so the time in which we live, it's really interesting because my parents grew up in the Depression. And I would go down in the basement of our house that my dad built in the early 1960s, and I'd see all of these ball jars with green beans and all the stuff that they'd canned down there that they never touched. It's like, why have we got all this stuff down there? It's because they'd lived through a time when they didn't have anything to eat.

They both grew up in abject poverty. And so that colored the way that they lived and spent their money. And then our generation comes along, it's a lot better. And now we're getting into a place where it's a lot tighter and it's uncertain. Tomorrow is uncertain. Next year and the stock market and all that, it's always been uncertain.

But it's even more so now. And I think this is just a time where we are being called to ask that same question. Are you going to live in your own strength? You're going to depend on him. Are you going to make wise decisions or unwise decisions?

You could be lazy. Are you going to move toward comfort and just do what you want to do and fulfill your wants? Or are you going to have this kingdom mentality of looking out? Now is a great time to live in the world. I know there's darkness and it's bleak and everything. Now is a great time for the gospel to go out. You can invest in the kingdom today rather than just in your own comfort and ease. So those are some of the things that came to mind.

Yeah, boy. And you've got to really counteract the message of this world. If you're going to do that and turn up God's voice and the noise of the world, turn that down. Chris, what about when it comes to our kids? You know, as a dad of nine, now nine grown children that are on their own, it's really easy to want to step in their mess and fix it.

And we can circumvent God's instruction and leading in their lives. What have you learned about that? Well, three of them still live with us.

I'm in the middle. You say they're grown and on their own. It's like, well, yeah, there are several of them that are, but they're still struggling, you know, and they're still asking the questions.

And I like the, you mentioned you can go in, you can helicopter, you can rescue. Absolutely. But there have been times, my wife has these conversations that I'm overhearing. She stays connected with them even more than I do.

And I will hear her hold back. Well, what do you think? You know, questions are always better than the rescue or the advice. And when your kids ask you for advice, especially on financial things, I say give it to them.

But the leading them and showing them, I think you model this better than you actually teach it. And when my daughter, you're going to love this because Larry Burkett, I saw a movie the other day and it was from the 1980s, early 1980s. And the main character was supposed to be really rich. And she drove up in a Lincoln town car. And I thought, Larry Burkett, because Larry would always tell me, don't buy a new car, Chris, as soon as you drive it off the lot, you know, it loses value. And he got the watch at the gas station every four years, I think. But I found a, my daughter needed a car.

It was the first thing that she was doing. We go give her this car. I found a 1999 Honda Civic.

This was like in 2019. So it was 20 years old. It had 21,000 miles on it. And I called him up, anybody who has a Honda, you know that you have to find out when they're going to do the fuel, the water pump and the timing belt.

That's the big, you know, that costs a lot. So I said, with 21,000 miles on this, has it ever had that change? And the guy looked at it. He said, it was an older couple who moved from California to Arizona. He said, they changed it 18,000 miles.

Sold, sold. She's still driving that car. And you know, one of the back doors doesn't open. It's got these little things that are going on, but that engine is just, you know, it's solid. Anyway, I say that because you can help your kids make good decisions about those kinds of decisions that they're making in their life about money.

There's no question about it. You mentioned your parents and I know they're both deceased now, but you grew up in rural West Virginia in coal mining country. What's one lesson you took away from your parents financially? My mom died about a year ago and so I'm in the middle of, you know, the grief process.

It came kind of slow for me for her. I think what I learned from my dad, I'll just use him, is he loved to farm. He loved being out on his tractor. He loved going down and had some cattle and some other, other things, but he had to have a main job.

And I think if he had it to do over, he would just farm all the time, but he couldn't make that work. And when I told him that I was going to do this freelance thing, he pushed back on it and said, well, you know, they're laying people off over here and there. And, you know, he was really scared about this. I think what I learned from them is to not be so afraid of what was going to happen, to be able to take a little bit of a risk, especially if you really love something and you want to do it.

And I love what I do. And I just wonder what would have happened. It's probably better for him to do farming on the side than it was full time.

But I wonder what would have happened if he had tried that. I love that. Chris, we're almost out of time here. I know you're working on a new book project. I want to finish today by giving you a chance to tell us about it. There's a friend of mine who has an Alzheimer's diagnosis and focus on the family asked me if you could write a novel about anything that people are dealing with in the culture, what would it be?

And this one of my best friends ever in life is going through this long goodbye. And so I came up with a plot that says here's a fellow who was a English professor and a writer named Grayson Hayes. And his recurring dream is that he has an unsolved murder in the town where he grew up. So the last thing that he wants to do before the words leave him is to solve this mystery, the mystery basically of his own life. And you see the struggle of his family around him to love him well.

And then the struggle that he has to receive the love of his family. Saving Grace comes out in November. Thanks for letting me talk about it.

Absolutely. Saving Grace, it comes out in November. You're going to want to pick that up. Chris, we've just scratched the surface. We're going to have to have you back. But it's been a lot of fun to talk today. Thanks for stopping by. Thank you for the invitation, Rob. God bless you.

That's Chris Fabry, host of Chris Fabry Live on Moody Radio. We're going to take a quick break and then back with your questions just around the corner. Eight hundred, five two five, seven thousand. I'm Rob West and this is Faith and Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial journey, helping you apply God's wisdom to the practical decisions you're making today. We'll be right back. I'm grateful to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live.

I'm Rob West. It's time to take your calls and questions today on anything financial. The number is eight hundred, five, two, five, seven thousand.

That's eight hundred, five, two, five, seven thousand. Give us a call right now and let's head to those phones to Indiana Whiting. Christian, go right ahead. Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Yes, ma'am. I have owned my own home with a mortgage on it. It has it'll be paid off in twenty thirty nine. And I can actually pay it off right now.

My we went I just recently had a trust done. And the attorney that drew up the trust said I should not pay it off. But I'd like to because I went I went to the lender and asked the question, if I don't pay it off, how much more interest am I going to pay? And they said nineteen thousand dollars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what was the reason he gave you, Christian, for not paying it off? It's just not a good idea to pay your home off.

OK. All right. Yeah, I mean, you can you can look at this from a purely financial standpoint and just crunch the numbers. And, you know, you can obviously see the benefit of, you know, the interest you'll pay versus what else you might be doing with that money that could be generating income and appreciation.

That potentially could offset that. And, you know, a lot of folks, especially with rates, if you've had this mortgage a while and it sounds like you have, you know, if you've got a low rate down in the you know, the threes, some folks even have them in the twos. You know, that's where a lot of financial advisors will say, well, you know, why would you want to deplete your cash, your liquid cash when, you know, you could keep it and invest it and outpace, you know, the mortgage interest. And therefore you'd come out better in the end. And if you needed to tap into it along the way, you'd still have it.

And I understand that. But there's another side to this, and that's the non-financial side, which just is, you know, if either you have a conviction of the Lord to be debt free, if you just have the desire to have the peace of mind that coming comes from knowing you own your home. Then I would say that really outweighs, in my view, the financial side, even if you could stand to make a little bit more money, you know, by investing it. Number one, you're taking risk to do that. And number two, you know, it discounts the importance of you, you know, being able to accomplish this really important desire. I would almost call it a value to be debt free. And, you know, if that's really your strong conviction, I would say, you know, go right ahead and do that and don't look back. But let me drill down just a little bit further. You said you could pay it off $29,000.

Where would that money come from? I drew it off of my 403B. Have you already done that or you would do that? I already did that. Okay. And how long ago?

About two weeks ago. Okay. So you do have the ability to put that back in if you decided to. I'm not saying you should, but you have up to 60 days to put that back. Now, that's going to be added to your taxable income.

So we just don't want that to catch you by surprise. How much do you have total, if you don't mind me asking, Christian, in that 403B? I have another $30,000. Okay. So you had a total of roughly 60, correct?

Correct. All right. And are you pulling any money out of that to cover your bills each month or do you have other income sources?

No, I've been very fortunate that my Social Security has covered all my expenses. Okay. Very good. And other than the $60,000 between the 403B and what you recently took out of it, what else do you have in terms of liquid reserves or other assets?

I have a 401K that I contributed to and my employer contributed to. Okay. How much is in there roughly?

About 50K. Okay. And go ahead. And then I have savings. All right. And how much is in the savings? About $40,000. Okay. And what do you think you spend on a monthly basis roughly?

About $1,000. Okay. And so you have a little bit left over at the end of a typical month? Oh, I do. Yeah. Okay.

And are you living in, do you plan to stay in your home as long as you can? I do. Okay. Yeah.

Very good. So, you know, I kind of like this idea of you paying it off. I mean, the other option is that money could continue to grow. I imagine you have a low interest rate. Is that right? Five and three quarters. Okay.

So it's not really that low. And so you'd have to make a good bit more than that to make, you know, have that make sense. Do you have a desire to pay it off? Is that really what you want to do? I've been wanting to pay it off for quite some time. Okay.

Yeah. Well, here's what I would say, Christian. Just given your desire to be debt-free, I would say you go for that. And I wouldn't look back. Yes, you're depleting some of that 403b. Yes, you have the potential for that to grow. And, you know, maybe it's down and you had to sell some investments at a loss to take that distribution. And that money doesn't have the ability now to come back. But I really do think that secondary to you just having this peace of mind to know that, you know, you own your home, number one. Number two, you're not at two or three percent interest.

You're at five and I think a half, you said, or five and a quarter. And so in order to really have something meaningful there, you're going to have to outpace that. And, you know, we're heading into a market that's probably going to be more sideways than up, if anything. And given that and given your season of life, you're not wanting to take a whole lot of risk anyway. So I think you're probably better off just to go ahead and get out from under that five and a half percent, that $19,000 you'd spend over the next 16 years.

So I'd say you go for it. Let's go ahead and pay it off. I don't think you'll look back other than to look back and say, I'm glad I now own my home. The only one thing I want you to do is I want you to talk to your CPA first and just make sure he or she is on the same page and that they can calculate the taxes that will be due on it because I don't want that to catch you by surprise. This is all going to be added to your taxable income. One option would be to spread it over two tax years. Do half of it this year, half of it in January.

Talk to your CPA about that. Hold on. We'll talk a bit more off the air. We'll be right back. Stay with us. Hey, thanks for tuning in today to faith and finance live where we apply the wisdom from God's word to your financial decisions and choices. I'm Rob West.

We've got room for maybe one or two more questions before we round out the broadcast. Also, Jerry Boyer stops by in the next segment. The number to call with your financial questions today on anything living, giving, owing or growing your money.

I should say God's money. Call this number 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. You can call right now. Let's head out to Buffalo, New York. Hi, Marie. Go right ahead. Hi, Mr. West. Thank you for taking my call.

I really need some good advice from you for the best way to protect a principal. I'm trying to invest and grow some money. All right, I'm going to do the best I can.

Give it to me. Okay, so I have a life savings of 150-175,000 that I would like to invest and grow. I'm a 60 year old single woman that has three minor children that I'm the sole provider for. I own my own house.

It's all paid off and I work per damn, but I would like to invest some money to make it work for me. Yeah. Wow. God bless you for what you're doing here, raising these three little ones.

What a gift that is to them. And I understand about you wanting to invest. Now, beyond this 175,000, Marie, do you have what I would call an emergency savings? Well, God has really blessed me to work hard over my life and I have 40,000 put away in a nest egg for emergencies. And I have another 88,000 in another account that we're living off of right now because it's hard for me to work full time and have the kids. So I draw out 4000 a month from the 88,000 to pay all our bills for the month and whatever I don't use, I just put it back into that account.

And that should last for at least two more years. And then I still have the 40,000 for the emergency fund. But right now, I don't have any income coming in because I'm only working per day.

Yeah. Well, what's going to change in 20 months when that runs out? Do you have a plan for how you can right size the budget? Well, that's why I'm calling you about the investment. I was hoping that I could make this 175 work and build a little bit over the next two years, or I could even do without it for five years or so. I could always go back to work more time.

And then I have that additional 40,000 for the emergencies. Yeah. And how old are the kids?

Oh boy, they're 3, 4 and 17. Wow. Wow.

That's incredible. Pray for me. Pray for me. I absolutely will.

But I'm so thankful that you're doing this. Are they with you permanently, Marie? Yes. Okay. Yeah.

So the challenge I'm seeing is, and I suspect the reason you're doing the per diem work is because you've got a full-time job at home just caring for them. Is that right? Yes, sir. Yeah. Because here's the reality is, yes, we've got this 88,000 and that's great, but that's going to last 20 months and I don't want to rely on the 40,000 because then we're all of a sudden going to be out of cash completely.

I agree with you. You could take the 175 and invest it and that's probably not a bad idea. But keep in mind, we're heading right into what most economists expect to be a full-blown recession sometime next year. We're seeing the handwriting on the wall for that. We're probably going to have more of a down and then a sideways market for a while. So the S&P 500, the largest 500 companies in the United States over the last 100 years have averaged about 10%. If you adjust that for inflation, maybe 7% a year. But I'm not expecting that for the next decade.

I'm thinking maybe we're going to see, well, most market analysts will say maybe 5 or 6% annualized a year. And so if you were to pull out 4% a year, let's say 20 months from now, because that 88,000 is gone, that 4% would throw off about $7,000 a year. That's only going to give you about $600 a month.

And if you need 4,000 to live on, we're going to be short $3,400 a month, which means you're going to either have to work part-time or full-time to generate the income you need. Because I don't want you to run out of money, and I don't want you to run through the 175 and try to buy yourself four more years, and then everything's gone. Now, we're trusting the Lord. God will provide, and He may provide in unexpected ways. There may be somebody that comes alongside you that wants to help support you in this amazing work that you're doing. And let's trust the Lord for that. But at the same time, we're trusting Him as your provider. We want to be wise and prudent in our planning with what He's entrusted to you.

So I think the best-case scenario would be you to try to not pull anything out of this for as long as possible, and hopefully dial back your expenses such that you could go out and begin working maybe part-time enough to generate the income that you need until such time as you begin taking Social Security, and maybe that begins to offset ultimately what you need to earn in terms of part-time work. Does that make sense? It does make sense. I've been talking to some bank financial advisors, and I really feel like they're a used-car salesman.

When I leave there, I'm more confused. What they're telling me is that right now, you could put down an annuity or even a CD, but the annuity has a longer writing of drawing money out, and you could get a 5.5% income from that right now, and then I could always take the money out or a marketplace. Do you think that would be wise? Yeah, I don't like the annuity option, but I think the CD could make a lot of sense because you're exactly right. You could get 5.5% right now. Do you own your home?

I do. The only thing I own is $20,000 on my car. Okay, and what is your home worth?

Well, I'm putting work in it now, so when it's all done, it'll be at least maybe about $275,000. Okay, so that's the other option. I don't use this in every case, but in some cases, it does make sense to do what's called the reverse mortgage. Now, if you just have a conviction to be debt-free and to stay that way, I would certainly understand that and want you to honor that. But one additional option for somebody in your situation where you're doing the Lord's work, you're raising these small kids, you've got some assets, but we don't want to deplete them, and it's challenging for you to work full-time because you've got little ones at home. You could look at slowly pulling the equity out of that house through a reverse mortgage where basically they would send you a monthly check for the rest of your life, and then whatever the balance was at your death would be paid for out of the proceeds of the house by the estate.

And that would be another way to supplement your income, so at some point you'd have the $175,000, let's say we're pulling $7,000 a year out of that, you've got your Social Security at some point down the road, and then the reverse mortgage could be three sources of income. Does that make sense? Oh, it does. It does.

Yeah. Now in terms of the advisor, and I think this is the next step for you, Marie, I'd love for you to connect with a Certified Kingdom Advisor there in New York. There's some great ones. Just go to our website on the web, faithfi.com, that's faithfi.com, and right there at the top of the page it says Find a CKA, that stands for Certified Kingdom Advisor, and I think you want to probably talk to two or three, find the one that's the best fit.

They can help you with investing that money and give you a financial plan. God bless you, Marie. Thanks for calling. We'll be right back. Well, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live.

I'm Rob West. Here in our final segment in just a moment we'll be talking to Jerry Boyer. Jerry will weigh in on what's happening in Israel from an economic perspective. Obviously, the incredible devastation and loss of life is paramount on our minds, and we're praying for the people there in Israel.

But we also want to look at it through just an economic lens so you can understand the implications there as well. But first, let's head back to the phones to Zach in Texas. Zach, go ahead. Yes, sir. My question for you is, is there a way to locate your previous 401k? Yeah, is the company still in existence? It is, but when I called they said that they switched their 401k company that they're investing in.

Yeah, that shouldn't be a problem. I'd call back to the company and just tell them you would like the current plan administrator's contact information, and they should be able to tell you who that plan administrator is, what company they're with, and they should be able to then, when you reach out to them, help you access the 401k account online. So I'd go back to the company. I mean, there are ways to find old 401ks, but they're not easy and they're laborious and time consuming.

Your best option to get the information you need the quickest is through your previous employer, the HR department, just saying, listen, I need the contact information for the current plan administrator of the 401k, because that 401k of yours, despite the fact that you're no longer there, would move over to the new plan administrator. Okay. All right. Yes, sir. Okay. Okay. So you check that out.

I think that'll give you the information you need, Zach, and all the best to you as you chase that down. Thanks for calling today. Well, it's Friday, which means Jerry Boyer stops by.

He brings his market analysis and commentary and whatever else, whatever other news for the day we're going to throw at him. And today, it's unfortunately just what's happening in Israel. By the way, we're asking all of our Moody Radio family to join us in praying that God would give help and refuge and strength to those affected by the war in Israel. And we've put together, the team at Moody Radio has put together an incredible webpage for you at moodyradio.org slash pray for Israel. Really some helpful information on where you can give to help those in harm's way and what's going on in Israel, as well as some helpful resources just to help you process what's happening in light of Scripture and prophecy and just what's unfolding before our eyes. Check that out when you have time. It's very well done.

I think it'll be a helpful resource. moodyradio.org slash pray for Israel. Jerry, good afternoon, my friend.

Good afternoon to you. As a Hebrew scholar, Jerry, and somebody who's spent a lot of time studying the book of Genesis, give us your just analysis of what's going on. Well, that's interesting. I mentioned to you earlier that if you read the account of the great flood says the earth is filled with violence, the word there in Hebrew is actually Hamas. Now, they didn't name their organization Hamas. It's an acronym. They didn't name it with that in mind.

I doubt they even knew it. But it is just interesting the way in Providence things kind of rhyme. But since you asked about Genesis, one of the things that as I think about this conflict, I think about you have the two sons of Abraham, right? You have Isaac and Ishmael, and Ishmael is the second. Then later on, you know, Jacob, you have Jacob and Esau, right? Isaac's children.

And again, you have the second. And so there was a child of the promise, and that child of the promise leads to Israel and ultimately to Jesus. And then there was the child who wasn't the child of the promise. And he could accept that role and be blessed by God and say, okay, God has chosen Isaac as the child of the promise. I'm not right. Or Jacob is the child of the promise.

I'm not. But I think what's happened is what we're seeing now globally, what we see now in Israel is to some degree, it's that family dynamic, that spiritual and family dynamic in the family of Abraham, where Ishmael and then later Esau, they sort of join up. Instead of saying, I'll be second and blessed, the envy took over and became incurable hatred. And I think that's really the Hamas that we're seeing.

It's that envy rather than admiration. My friend George Gilda wrote a book called The Israel Test. And the idea of the Israel Test is there's something about Judaism that creates a certain amount of flourishing education.

You know, the deserts bloom. There's some blessing and being embraced, excuse me, immersed in Torah. And for George, the Israel Test is some people look at that success and they say, oh, that's wonderful. How wonderful for them.

Thank God for that. And how can I also succeed and admire it? And some people look at that and they seed with hatred. That's the Israel Test.

How do you respond to that success? Hamas is the failure of the Israel Test. And Americans, say many in the universities, prestigious universities, and some politicians, or the BLM group just put out a tweet siding with Free Palestine and Hamas, they're failing the Israel Test. They're giving in to envy and hatred. They're not taking the role of, oh, well, God did not choose us to be the child of the promise, but he chose us anyway.

We can also succeed. We can also be blessed by God, but it doesn't come from cursing Israel. It doesn't come from cursing the tribe out of which Jesus came.

It came from imitating that blessing. And that envy is the only thing that – there is no material benefit for the Gaza Strip. That nation state is likely to be destroyed. They're going to be impoverished. They will gain nothing. And they knew they would gain nothing except the joy of hatred, the joy of murder. And that's what envy does.

Wow. Yeah, that's a helpful lens through which we can evaluate this, Jerry. What about economically? Obviously, this is not an economic story and yet everything has economic implications. What are the markets telling us about this war that's underway? The markets are telling us in some ways the same thing that I just said, which is that that part of the world – I don't mean Israel, but I mean the part that's going to be where the war occurs – is economically so unproductive. And that's not the most important thing about them, of course, but that is part of it.

I mean, if you respect human dignity and the image of God, that has economic implications, too. So here's the question. Two nations are at war right now. One of them is very, very likely to win. That's Israel.

The other is very, very likely to lose. That's essentially the kind of the little mini nation state in Gaza. Markets aren't reacting to that.

Why? Because they're not producing anything economically. It's essentially – the whole – the Palestinian settlements are all basically a United Nations welfare system camp. You know, these are refugee camps that get United Nations welfare paid for largely by the United States. It's not an economically productive system.

And so we can look at it, and there's a lot of tragedy is going to happen. But when you see tragedy happen to a nation and you don't see global markets reacting, you know that's a nation that's not really significant for global markets because it's not a significant economic producer. Because that culture produces envy. It doesn't produce wealth. And my friend Rupin Brenner, a terrific economist, said in some ways, terrorism is the way young men make a bet on the future when entrepreneurship is cut off as an option. So like young men who become entrepreneurs, they're kind of disruptors. So if they have access to capital and business opportunities, they'll go disrupt an industry.

They'll say, oh, we're going to do tabs differently, you know, like Uber or something like that. But if all those sort of morally legitimate ways to get by in the world don't take hold, then certain kinds of risk-taking young men say, well, my bet is on a different future entirely, a completely different social order. My bet is on destroying the civilization as it is.

And maybe whatever comes after will maybe be better for me. So when you cut off economically productive avenues, when you cut off healthy risk-taking for a certain subset of people, evil becomes their kind of – that's their investment in the future. Killing people is their version of an investment in the future.

Wow. And that's what we're seeing playing out before our eyes, Jerry. And it is terrorism, and it's, as you said, based on a worldview that is entirely different than the biblical worldview. We see it playing out in our eyes in the non-responsive markets. If two economically productive nations were at war, then markets would be responding, but that's not what's happening. Markets can yawn their way through this. I mean, we can be horrified personally, but in terms of economics, if Hamas went away, the world economy would not be changed one bit. Right, right. Yeah.

Jerry, what about here at home? Obviously, it's been a couple of weeks since we've spoken, and we've had some new inflation data out. What do you make of the most recent numbers? Well, they're the same as the last numbers, and the last numbers weren't goods. So that's not good. Inflation has not gone away, and they keep telling us, you know, inflation is going to go away.

It'll be transient, et cetera. And it's the same rate, say monthly rate, last month as it was before, which if you annualize that, that's about 4.8%. So that's close to a 5% inflation rate. That's high. And I know the administration has said, well, inflation has come down a lot.

Well, just be clear about that. That doesn't mean prices have come down to normal. That means that we've gone from near hyperinflation to high inflation. So prices are still going up, but do I really need to tell anybody that? Anybody who's driving right now or listening, anybody who shops knows what I'm saying. I mean, maybe if you work for the Fed, you don't know. But see, I happen to have a rule. I think that the majority of the members of the Fed ought to be people who do their own shopping.

I think if that were the case, we'd get much better monetary policy. I like that, Jerry. You like that?

Right. My wife and I go, we go shopping together. We go to the Costco or we're in Pittsburgh gears with the giant eagle, you know, wherever we go, or Aldi's.

I don't want to favor anybody. We go and we see what's going on with the prices. So, you know, as a monetary economist, I learn a lot more from shopping than I do from economic models. And so what that means is the Fed says, okay, well, inflation's not beat. And so we're probably going to have to pull more money out of markets and destroy that money to shrink the money supply to slow things down. Slow down the economy is the way they think you have to beat inflation.

So markets go down in response to that and it makes recession just a little more likely. Same song, second verse, Jerry. It sounds like we've heard this before.

And yet it continues on. Well, so grateful for you, my friend. You're always helpful to analyze what's happening around us in light of a biblical worldview. We appreciate it. God bless you, Jerry. God bless you. All right.

Faith in Finance Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and FaithFi. Thank you to my team. Have a great weekend. We'll see you Monday. Bye bye.