Principles of Financial Leverage

Well, Fall Share may be over, but you know, you still have time to partner with Moody Radio in our mission to create Christ-centered programs and share Jesus boldly with the world, if that's what you want. And if you've been impacted by programs like the one that you're listening to, we're guessing you have been. Hey, would you consider giving? You can actually see our impact and learn more at fallshare.org. That's fallshare.org.

See you there. Are you rich? You might not think so, but compared to most of the world, you're probably quite wealthy. Hi, I'm Rob West.

Just having clean water, food, and shelter sets us apart from much of the world's population. The question is, what are we doing with this wealth? I'll talk with Ken Boa and Russ Crossett about that today. Then it's on to your calls at 800-500.

That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, I can't tell you how excited I am to have Ken Boa and Russ Crossett on the program today.

They've been good friends for a long time. Ken is a pastor. He's the founder of Reflections Ministries. Russ is the executive vice president and chief mission officer of Ronald Blue Trust. Ken and Russ, great to have you on the program today. Rob, good to be with you.

Good to be with you. Well, you guys have written this phenomenal new book titled, Leverage Using Temporal Wealth for Eternal Gain. We're starting today, as you guys know, a three-part series discussing what you've unpacked in this book. I should tell listeners that they can get a copy of Leverage with a gift of any amount to Faithfi. Just go to our website, faithfi.com, and click the Give tab. Now, to start, Ken and Russ, I'm curious. I'd love to know, and maybe Russ, you can kick us off. What made the two of you decide to collaborate on this book on giving?

Well, thanks for asking. I'm kind of laughing here because Ken had sent me a proposed outline for a giving book he was considering doing. As is in Ken fashion, he's so wise and so knowledgeable.

He had like seven steps and seven processes. He had some things in there about foundations and about ceilings and things like that. I said, hey, Ken, that's kind of my area. So I was bold enough to send him a suggested different outline. We kind of collaborated with him on the principal side and me on the practical side. I think, like Ken likes to say, a theologian and a practitioner was kind of a unique way to go about this. Ken, thanks for letting me interrupt your thought process there when you sent that to me about two and a half years ago. This was a remarkable time that we had putting that together because I did the part on principles of biblical leverage, and then Russ would do the practices. Let those do most what they do best.

Yes. Well, you've come up with a unique resource that covers both the spiritual and the practical side of giving. Let's dive into that. As you gentlemen know, the verse Luke 12 48, to whom much was given of him, much will be required, has a lot to do with our topic today. Russ, this is obviously your domain. You've been counseling a lot of wealthy believers for a long time. You know, we've been given a lot here in the US. Does that make it easier or more difficult to leverage that wealth for the kingdom?

Well, it's interesting, Rob. It seems like when we start our careers, we start our businesses, we have faith, and then when God blesses us, we have way more than we need. We tend to put our confidence and faith in the pile and not in God. And so, unfortunately, it seems like the more you have, sometimes it's harder to draw a finish line. We in our company have spent 40 years helping people realize there is an amount that's enough, and you ought to be able to be generous above that amount. But I think it's harder. The more you have, sometimes it's harder to be generous, commensurate with how you've been blessed. You know, the New Testament says, give according to your ability. And I think for wealthy people, that becomes a hard thing to do. And so we've had the privilege of spending four decades helping people answer that question. But I think, yeah, it's harder, quite frankly, Rob, the more you have.

Yeah. What do you think about that, Ken, spiritually? There's a downward pull that money has on us.

It has its own gravity. Wealth is not a neutral thing. In fact, the whole concept is that the leverage, therefore, make use of the wealth of unrighteousness, as Jesus says in Luke 16.

And that word is kind of interesting. The King James calls it filthy lucre, but make use of the wealth of the mammon or wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, of course, that's when you die. You leave it all behind. That's why there's no U-Haul behind the earth.

The fact is, you can't take it with you, but you can send it ahead. But it tethers us to this world, and we find our identity, it seems to be more and more fashioned and formed by the pile, as Russ describes it, by this gravity, so that it has to be overcome. That gravity of the pull and holding it with an eternal perspective, because I think God uses financial abundance to refine and reveal where our hearts are. Wow, that's powerful.

We'll continue to unpack that. We're talking today with Russ Crossan and Dr. Ken Boa. Their new book, Leverage Using Temporal Wealth for Eternal Gain, is a must-read. When we come back, we'll talk about what is biblical leverage? How do you cultivate an eternal perspective? And what are some of the spiritual dangers with wealth?

That and much more with Ken Boa and Russ Crossan. This is Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We're going to take a quick break and come back with much more just around the corner.

Stick around. Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. Joining me today, my good friends, Dr. Ken Boa and Russ Crossan. Ken is the founder of Reflections Ministries.

Russ is the chief mission officer at Ronald Blue Trust. We're talking today about their great new book, Leverage Using Temporal Wealth for Eternal Gain. It's a really phenomenal book because it comes at both the spiritual and the practical side of generosity. Gentlemen, just to continue to build this out a bit, we were talking about how we've been blessed with much. If we have more than we need, we're rich according to the world standards. But Russ, I know you've also written to folks who really don't have much.

I'm thinking about your book, Money Made Simple, which just really boiled down these concepts for someone really at any income level. So what would you say to someone who says, I don't have enough to leverage it for the kingdom? Well, I think we all have something we can give. You can forego a meal out.

You can buy something at Goodwill rather than the designer store. So the idea is we need to give to acknowledge God's ownership. That's one of the reasons we give. It's the antidote.

It helps us get our hands off of it. And so whether you have a little or a lot, you need to get engaged in the giving journey, the generosity journey. And, you know, I didn't always know that when I was a young person, but I tell you, you cannot give God. So I'd say wherever you are, give something to acknowledge ownership. And then as we'll learn as we unpack this, you know, some people say, well, you got to get the 10 percent. Well, the New Testament says give a coin to your ability. So I would say start where you are, give something to acknowledge ownership and see what God does.

Yeah, I love that. Ken, now, we're not saying folks should take a vow of poverty, but at the same time, as you mentioned before the break, wealth comes with spiritual dangers. So what do we need to be aware of there? We need to be aware, as I mentioned earlier, about this idea of a downward pull or a gravity that the world, the flesh and the devil actually act upon us. And so as part of that whole concept, money, as I say, is not neutral, but it can be leveraged for the kingdom or it can be leveraged for the flesh.

It has three things. The more we have, the harder it is, number one, to live by faith. Number two, the more we will make our identity based upon it. And third, the more proud we will be inclined to be.

And so it's intriguing how those three things work in that concert. Yeah, I think Ken said it right and I said it earlier that it seems like we have faith, we don't have anything. We trust God when we were building our businesses, starting our careers, but then we get the surplus and we put our confidence there. And it says in Psalm 78 that there's four generations talked about in Psalm 78, 5 to 7, he commanded the fathers to teach their children, to teach their children, to teach their children, to put their confidence in God, not forget the works of God, but keep his commands. And so the best thing we can do for our families is be generous, but also model faith. And the more you have, it's sometimes hard to model that faith and show our kids we're putting confidence in God and not in the stuff.

Oh, it's so important. Russ, what is this idea of biblical leverage? How would you describe that? Well, you're sending it on ahead, you know, you're storing up, you know, 30, 60, 100 fold returns. And I think, you know, we're told that in scripture, you know, you store up treasures in heaven where moth and rust don't destroy and thieves don't break in and steal, Matthew 6. And so the idea is that I can take my temporal wealth and I begin to invest in people.

And I would hope for the listeners that when they get to heaven, there'll be people lined up to thank them for their generosity. That's what I mean by leverage. I talk about the concept of limited sphere. You can use your money and build more homes and build more stuff, but only a limited number of people ever know what you have financially. But if you invested in God's work and you leverage it, you know, through ministries, through your church, through your family, and by being generous, you can impact an unlimited sphere of people.

So that's the decision we all have. Am I going to try to impress a limited number of people or am I going to send it on ahead and impact an unlimited sphere of people? It's a powerful idea. Dr. Boa, I've appreciated your teaching over the years on heaven and just living with and cultivating an eternal perspective. Why is it important to live with the end in mind?

Yes. The idea of understanding that what we do on this earth really does, as Maximus put it in Gladiator, has an impact on eternity is truth to this. The fact is that realizing the brevity of our earthbound sojourn, that we are in a soul-forming world, we're not home yet, is inviting us then to hold everything with a loose grip insofar as we are actually, all of us, are stewards who own nothing, including that which we hold back that we're going to be held accountable for. It's all God's and he's going to ask us at the judgment seat, what did we do with it?

So we're invited to see it. So going back to this idea of leverage, give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, Archimedes said, and I will move the world. So it has the idea that you can actually move something and put it in the right place and it has a disproportionate impact. And that's my view, is that our impact by giving into the kingdom of God and serving people is incalculably diffusive. We can't quantify it, but it'll multiply it far beyond its earthbound amount.

That's powerful. Russ, you mentioned that you've helped folks for 40 years think about this idea of enough, a financial finish line. What are some of the keys to helping folks begin to set that amount?

And is it really a specific amount? Well, and it is, Rob, for every individual, everybody's worried about what if taxes change? What if the investments go down? What if inflation gets out of hand?

You know, what if my living expenses go up? So there's four or five or six variables that whatever you can be stressed about, you can put into your unique situation and project it out. And there is a number that's enough. So everybody has a number. And this is not that fidelity number the investment commercials have. This is a number that's enough for you to live based on where you are in the country, where you are in your life.

But there is a finish line. There is a ceiling that's enough. And yes, you can quantify it. And then once you quantify it, and I've just helped a guy in the last couple of weeks say, oh, I don't need to keep building my net worth. He saw his ceiling, he saw his finish line, and now he's being way more generous because he sees that. So yes, you can quantify it, whatever you're worried about, put it in a projection, and you're probably gonna have enough.

Yeah, that's so helpful. Dr. Boa, as we think about managing worldly wealth, you know, we look to the Scriptures, we see there was plenty of examples of people who had significant means, and yet they were still pursuing God with everything. So we don't need to have guilt around that. It's really the idea of what we're going to do with it, right?

That's right. He's just given us more accountability, and so it's not that God blessed me. He gave me more accountability, more responsibility. To whom much has been given, much will be required. And therefore, we as stewards must always live with the understanding that it is required that we be faithful. So faith—reward in the kingdom of heaven is based on faithfulness to opportunity. And so the New Testament principles are far more radical in many respects, although there were four tithes. There's a passive tithe, with so much it added up to actually about thirty-three and a half percent. It's much more than we would have supposed. But the New Testament tells us that we are actually to allow the Spirit to guide us, to give us with gratitude, to give it in a sacrificial way, to give it proportionately and give it consistently. There's a sense of privilege that we are allowed to be a player in something that's going to last forever. And that's the significance of the thing.

How long will it last? You know, I'm Rob. Ken mentioned the word accountability. Let me just jump in here and comment on that, because what we've experienced is that left to ourselves, we will not generally be generous, because we bought the lie of the world, the gravity, like Ken said, the tentacles that hold us down. And so you need accountability. Once a person sets that ceiling, are you going to actually give above and beyond that?

And so accountability is a very important aspect to be able to give according to your ability. Gentlemen, this has been great. I know this is just part one of a couple of interviews we'll be doing on this topic, but thanks for stopping by today. Thanks for having us.

Good to be with you. That's Ken Bowe and Russ Cross and the authors of Leverage, using temporal wealth for eternal gain. Get it wherever you buy books. Your calls are next. The number 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back. So glad to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live.

I'm Rob West. All right, it's time to take your calls and questions today on anything financial. The number to call is 800-525-7000. That's right. Our team is standing by and we'd be delighted to chat with you today.

Again, 800-525-7000 is the number to call. You know, we started today by talking about generosity and how we can give wisely and the leverage that's there with regard to kingdom giving. That's right, the opportunity to take a portion of what God has entrusted to us and recognize that yes, we're to enjoy it and yes, we're to use it to provide for our families, but there is this other big idea that we see in Scripture and that is that we can take God's money and give it. You demonstrated that last week through your giving to Moody's Fall Share, Bold for the Gospel. And let me just take this opportunity to say a big thank you to so many of you who supported this incredible work here at Moody Radio. We are so grateful for faithful listeners and givers that have locked arms with us. Well, that's just such a great example of the power of what we can do through our generosity as we connect a portion of God's resources back into God's activity, whether that's through the work of our local church or ministries like Moody Radio, just making a difference in the lives of people and proclaiming the Gospel. It's an incredible opportunity that we have and it's clearly on the heart of God in Scripture. We're told in the New Testament that we should give freely and we should give proportionately and to whom much is given, much is required and that we should give joyfully as an act of worship that as an overflow or an expression of our gratitude, we can hold God's money loosely because we know that he's our provider. You see, if we were dependent upon ourselves for our provision, we'd have to hold every dime we get with a clenched fist, but we can actually give it away and in doing so, demonstrate to the world and to the Lord that we trust him as provider and it's a testimony.

But then we get the joy that follows as we are participating in God's activities and knowing that we have the opportunity to bless others around us and actually help to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That's what it's all about and that's why we're focusing on this topic of leverage with our two guests today, Russ Crossan and Dr. Ken Boa. We'll do a couple of additional segments on this over the next couple of months with them focused on their great new book, Leverage. All right, we're going to turn the corner though and talk about what's on your mind financially speaking today. Again, the number to call with a few lines remaining.

The calls are coming in quick at 800-525-7000. All right, let's go to New Orleans. We're going to begin today with Jack.

Go right ahead. Hello, Rob. This is Jack and I was calling because earlier this year I was listening to your show and you had some experts on there that were talking about the coming recession and it seemed like the prevailing opinion was that there was going to be a recession this year. The only question was whether it was going to be a small recession, a medium one, or a very deep one. But as it turns out, it looks like we're not having a recession at all this year.

So I just wanted to hear your comments on that situation. Yeah, it's a great observation and actually Bob Doll, one of our resident economists, will be stopping by later today in our final segment with the quarterly edition of his market commentary as he reflects on Q3 and then looks forward to what we might expect. What you'll hear from Bob and what we've been talking about as of late on this is that most economists still expect a recession. I think the key is that it's been delayed.

And why is that? Well, I think it's true two primary reasons. One is just the overall strength of the consumer has really allowed this economy to hold up in such a way that has kind of delayed this recession. You know, most folks thought that a combination of the high inflation, which has been coming down but still high, and we remember inflation's cumulative, so that nine percent we had last year, even though we're down at four, that four is on top of the nine.

And so we experience that at the grocery store and a variety of other places every day. But the thought was the combination of that plus these rising interest rates, rapidly rising interest rates, would cause us to push into a recession quicker than we have seen it happen. And by the way, the official recession definition is two consecutive quarters of negative GDP. So the economy is still in positive territory, which is why we technically have not slipped into a recession.

So I think, again, you know, how did we get there? Well, I think that is a result of just how strong the consumer was following COVID. Their balance sheets, the amount of savings they had from just the lack of spending, has allowed this economy to stay propped up. That, on top of the fact that the job market has held up pretty substantially, has caused this recession to be pushed out. Now, keep in mind the effects of these higher interest rates, which were put in place by the Federal Reserve to slow the economy, is going the longer they stay high, the more people will actually feel the effects of them. So just think about in your own life, if you haven't bought a house or a car and borrowed money to do it, you're not carrying interest on credit cards, then you're largely not feeling the effects of those higher interest rates.

And you may be positively feeling them in the form of high yield savings account. But the longer this goes on, the more people will have to move because of a job situation or they'll be buying their first home or they'll be out to buy a car because it's the end of its useful life. And they're going to have to roll those two or three percent mortgages over to seven and a half. That on top of the putting the student loan payments back in place, which have been deferred since the pandemic, you know, all of those things on top of high inflation are going to cause the erosion of the financial health of the American consumer. That's going to begin to show up in spending and consumption. And all of that is going to lead to some of these corporate profits beginning to roll over. So the question is, can the Fed engineer that soft landing? Most economists would say probably not, just given all of the factors that are going on right now. But I think you're right.

I mean, clearly, most economists would have expected we would have already been in the recession. We're not. We probably won't be through the end of the year. So it looks like by all accounts, it's just been pushed out into 2024.

That, of course, all remains to be seen. But stay tuned to the broadcast today because I'll get Bob Doll to weigh on that in just a bit. We'll be right back. Well, it's great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West and we're taking your phone calls today and I count one, two, three, four lines still open. So if you've got a question today, give us a call. They won't be open for long.

Eight hundred five to five seven thousand. Hey, before we head to Michigan, let me remind you, as I do periodically, that Faith and Finance Live is listener supported, which just simply means we can't do what we do here on this program each day. And all the other resources we offer off air without your generous support. We're listener supported as a not for profit ministry. And so you can support our work by just heading to our Web site. It's Faith Fi dot com. That's Faith Fi dot com. Just click the gift button and we've got a brand new giving page, hopefully making it even easier for you to give securely and quickly online.

Again, Faith Fi dot com. Just click give. Thanks in advance. All right. We're going to go back to the phones to Hamilton, Michigan.

Hi, Nancy. Go ahead. OK, this is a budgeting thing. We're thinking about living or changing our living situation. And we're trying to figure out the monthly expenses, what we should be thinking we can afford, because I know some of them will be different. Like if we live in a condo. We know what we I wrote down what we now spend, but there's don't know how to figure for inflation.

They don't know how to figure things for things that are not regular expenses. I know we'll have to be putting some things aside for savings, which might not be the same as what we're saving aside now. Probably won't actually. Yes. Yeah. So that's that's the beginning. I have another. There's something else besides that.

OK, let me tackle that first. You know, I think with the inflation piece, I'd probably not try to factor that in. And the way you would typically account for that is you would probably update your budget once or twice a year by going in. And, you know, you could do this annually. You could do it more frequently than you want and go in and and just adjust your budget categories based on the actual expenses. The idea being that although we do have inflation, which is normally low, the Fed's target Federal Reserve's target for inflation is 2 percent a year.

So fairly modest. They've been successful at that. Now, we could argue whether or not that's a good idea for them to keep interest rates so low and keep the money supply flowing in order to accomplish that 2 percent inflation. But that's what we've had until these last couple of years where all of a sudden inflation spiked for a variety of reasons. The reason you wouldn't try to factor that into your budget is typically you're going to get cost of living adjustments in the form of either a cost of living adjustment on your Social Security or a cost of living adjustment on your salary or your income, you know, built in every year. So you would be able to have the funds to then go back in and update your budget categories based on the effects of inflation. And so you might do that once a year as opposed to trying to, you know, factor that into the budget, which just makes it really challenging. In terms of those unexpected expenses, I think that's just where, you know, you really need to be thoughtful about how you craft your budget because it's really easy to account for those expenses in your budget that you get a bill for. If something comes in the mail or you get an electronic notification of a bill, it's more difficult or maybe just takes more time to account for those things that where you don't get a bill. So, you know, you buy Christmas presents for friends and family every Christmas, but you don't get a bill for it. So you could total up last year's Christmas spending and divide it by 12 and, you know, put that into savings. You might get a semiannual insurance bill that doesn't come every month, comes twice a year.

If you pay your own property taxes or homeowner's insurance, that might come once a year. You know, you're going to have clothing, which again will happen sporadically. So I think to the best of your ability, you want to try to use a budget template like we have in the Faithfi app, which you can get at faithfi.com and find a link there to your app store. But that would at least help you with all the categories. And then you could put in, you know, amounts that equal what you think, you know, would be one twelfth of that year's expenses for that particular budget category. And then you adjust it along the way to make sure that you have an accurate number there. And, you know, I think that's where you have to recognize that budgeting is an ongoing process. Those numbers are changing regularly.

You're learning more. Maybe you start with one budget and then you decide you need to free up more margin to fund your long term goals. So you go back and start cutting things.

You know, we're canceling subscriptions and, you know, cutting in our cable. And, you know, so there's always changes that are going to take place. But your ability to budget effectively is going to really come down to the work that you do to get an accurate reflection of your spending, not just for a 30 day period, but what it's going to take for you over 30 days to plan for all of the expenses you're going to have over 12 months. Does that make sense?

I already did that. I'm thinking about things that don't come up every year for like if one of us needs a crown, a dental crown, or if we have to buy a new phone, those don't come up every year. And so how to divide that by 12 doesn't make sense. So how do you budget for those things that are really irregular, they don't come every year even. So I think there's two categories that are there.

And thanks for clarifying that, Nancy. I think category one is those things that are truly unexpected and we shouldn't have necessarily planned for them. So for instance, you have your emergency fund. We recommend having three to six months worth of expenses in your emergency fund.

And that would be for those things that just absolutely come out of left field. You have a temporary loss of income. You have an unexpected, you had a car accident and you got to pay for your deductible.

You had a medical emergency or a crown that was, as you said, was completely unexpected. That I would say would come from your emergency fund. There's other non-recurring expenses that you should plan for. So you should probably put at least 1% of your home value each year in a home maintenance fund. You might have some appliances that are at the end of their useful life and that's not unexpected. You know they're going to run out.

Same with the tires on your car. And so we're putting an estimated amount in a reserve account every month for those things that we know we're going to have to spend money on. But again, we don't get a bill for. So I think it's a combination of planning where you can plan and then the emergency fund where you can't plan. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Just kind of figure ahead of time that you're going to have to pay for this sometime and then even though you have no idea how many years it will be, just kind of figure. So you would say 1% of your home is value for home maintenance, things like new refrigerator? Well, so typically that would be for, so if you own a single family home, that's for things that you have to all of a sudden, the wood around the window is starting to rot.

And you've got a damaged tile on the roof. So there's things that just happen that you're going to have to replace. That would be home repairs. Typically, I do appliances separate from that.

And that's going to be based on how new your appliances are and what the useful life is of those as you start planning. So this is a process that's ongoing. It's not simple. But I think the combination of you being thoughtful to plan for those things that you can plan for, combined with the the emergency fund for the unexpected. And when you have to pull, you know, draw out of that emergency fund for something that truly comes out of left field, then we're trying to replenish it because the next thing is going to come.

The unexpected will always come. So we need to plan for it, even though we don't know what shape or form it's going to take from time to time. Does that make sense?

That part makes sense. Unfortunately, I have a pension from the government, so I don't get a cost of living adjustment. And so there'd be less income when one spouse dies. And it's like, how do you figure there for that for when you're figuring, or you just re-figure your budget?

Yeah, you would because there's going to be expenses that change along with the income changes. Hang on the line. You and I'll talk a bit more off the air.

I've got to hit a break here, Nancy, but it's been a delight to talk to you today. So you stay right there. Folks, a lot more to come on Faith and Finance Live just around the corner. Stay with us. Well, it's great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live.

I'm Rob West. Hey, it's Monday, which means Bob Doll stops by. But it's not just Bob Doll in the normal sense. Bob has just completed his analysis of the third quarter.

So we're going to get kind of a preview of where things are going and where we've just come from. Bob, good afternoon to you. And to you. Happy Columbus Day.

Same to you, Bob. Hey, I got a call earlier in the broadcast from a listener who said, wait a minute. I mean, I was listening to you guys, you know, a year ago.

He was very kind. I'm not proposing here that he was being snarky in any way. But he said, I was listening to you guys, you know, maybe a year ago and you were saying, yeah, we really think this this recession is coming and we haven't gotten it.

Why not? And, you know, I was saying it's largely because of the consumer was has been holding up pretty well, especially with all the savings they had post covid and the job market has held up. I mean, would those be the two drivers that's kind of kick this recession can down the road or is there something else? No question about it. You've got it right.

And the two are obviously related, Rob. More people working. So there's more income. So there's more spending power. And the more people that are working, the more confidence people who are already working have that they're going to keep their jobs.

So they end up spending a little more. So it's been a self reinforcing positive loop. And look, I think that what we would have also said at that time is the things that cause a recession, for example, the Fed raising interest rates operate with a long lag on the economy.

It's unpredictable, typically 18 to 24 months. And we're only in that period now. So while I'm sure a year ago we said a recession is coming and maybe intimated it was like tomorrow morning. Yes. The truth is, you know, now is and you know, from our beginning of the year outlook and our 10 predictions, we said we expected a recession to start this year, sometime between Labor Day and the end of the year. So we've got a couple of more months before we get that one wrong, if you will. Yeah, no, no doubt about it. That's helpful, Bob.

All right. So as you've done this analysis on Q3 and then looked out beyond this point where we are today, what would you say are kind of the high level takeaways? I think the big note of the third quarter for history books is the massive increase in interest rates out the yield curve. Not the Fed, although they continue to raise rates, but how longer term interest rates went up. Well factoid, Rob, there's never been a three year period in U.S. history going back like 250 years where you've lost money in bonds three years in a row. Unless bonds have a huge rally here in the fourth quarter, this will meet Mark history will be the third year in a row where you lost some money in bonds and that rise in rates, not from low levels to high levels, but from near zero to middle of the road levels, which is very interesting. The fact that interest rates were close to zero for so long is what created all the stimulus and some of the excess and obviously inflation that we're trying to get out of the system.

Yeah, that's really helpful. So obviously, where we go from here, it's really just a matter of how quickly does the consumer deteriorate and how quickly does that spill over into the form of missed earnings, I guess, huh? Yeah, earnings of the story from here and it'll be the consumer has a lot to do with it. And of course, the consumer could keep on trucking and we push this thing out in time. It's very possible, but our view is the earnings expectations are are too high. The consensus looking for a double digit percentage gain next year 2024 and we have a hard time pushing our pencil to get that kind of number up.

Yeah, I certainly understand that. All right, Bob, what about obviously over the weekend, horrible atrocities coming out of Israel that's turned into an all out war between Israel and Hamas that's playing out as we speak? Are you surprised? Not that the story is in any way economic, but there are economic ramifications. Are you surprised the market was up today?

I am. I mean, somebody joked and said, well, the reason stocks are up is because the bond market was closed and so higher rates couldn't happen. So stocks didn't go down. Well, OK, there's a little bit of element of truth to that, I guess.

But you're absolutely right. If you had told me everything that happened this weekend, you say what's going to happen on Monday for stocks? They'll probably go down some. Well, they did, but only for half the day. And they turned around and went back up. Of course, they had suffered a decline from forty six hundred July 31st to nearly forty two hundred at the low last week. So this is just, you know, coming back from where we were like oil prices, oil prices from their high a couple of weeks ago fell ten dollars so that they're up three or four dollars today is not a whole lot of consternation for people.

We'll see where it goes from here, how widespread this does this become. But, you know, it's going to mean more defense spending, not just in the US, but around the world, the attempt that Israel and Saudi Arabia were making to understand each other and recognize each other. That's got to be put to the back burner. So it's just it's not pleasant. And of course, not to even mention the horrible nature of all the deaths that have occurred.

And sadly, probably more to come. Yeah, that's exactly right, Bob. All right. Well, this has been really helpful, my friend. Always grateful for you stopping by. Thanks for being with us today.

Thanks for the opportunity. Bye bye. All right. That's Bob Doll. He's chief investment officer at Crossmark Global Investments.

You can learn more at crossmarkglobal.com. All right. Let's round out the broadcast today. Going back to the phones to Wheeling, Illinois. Madeline, go right ahead. Hi.

Good afternoon. I just wanted to find out because we sold a pickup truck on September 23rd of this year. If we should dive on the proceeds of the truck. Yeah, I appreciate that question, Madeline.

Let's back up just for a second. You know, we're tithing preceded the law of Moses with Alkizadeh. We certainly saw it as a part of the law of Moses, although there was multiple tithes that totaled 23 and a third percent because one of them was every three years.

And then Jesus references the Old Testament law, but we're now under the law of Christ. And I think New Testament giving is really about giving freely. It's giving proportionately. It's giving with a cheerful heart. I think it's giving even sacrificially. Jesus celebrated the giving of the poor widow who gave out of her poverty. So we don't want to give to be, you know, to check a box. And yet I think applying the principle of the tithe is a great way to start your giving to say, as God prospers me on my increase, I'm going to systematically give back starting with my local church.

I love that. So if we're going to apply the principle of the tithe, it is based on the increase. So when we look at the sale of an asset, which would include the sale of a truck, we say, is there an increase? And with a car, in almost every case, there's not an increase. We buy it at one price, we use it, it depreciates, and then we sell it for a price lower than that. The only time it would not be that way is if you had some sort of collectible automobile where you buy it, it actually appreciates and you sell it for more. But in the case of a typical car sale or truck sale, you're selling it for less than you bought it for, and therefore there is no increase, and so therefore the tithe doesn't apply. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. But I could still give, though, right? Oh, absolutely.

And I think that's my point about even going back to the Old Testament versus the law of Christ. You know, this idea that God has given us an abundance, and that's even before the first dollar, he's given us his son Jesus to pay the penalty for our sin. And so one of the ways we can worship and we can give out of gratitude is to say, I can't out-give God, and therefore every opportunity I have to give generously to my church or to the work of the Lord, whether it's Moody Radio or any other ministry doing work in the name of Jesus, by all means you go for it, Madeline.

And when you free up some money because you've sold an asset, that's a great opportunity to do some giving. So I appreciate you checking in on that, though. Thanks for your call today. To Chattanooga. Hey, Ethan, go ahead. Hey there. Thank you so much for taking my call.

I'll be super brief. So my wife and I are a nurse and a teacher, and we make a decent income, but we are in the middle of paying off some student loan debt. We're trying to find the most financially efficient way to obtain health insurance. Now, my work and her work both offer separate insurance plans that we could either go on together or go on opposing insurance plans. Her plan is a zero dollar deductible plan with a high out-of-pocket cost, and my plan is a low deductible cost of around $1200 with an out-of-pocket maximum of around $5,000. We just want to find the best health insurance plan that's also financially cost efficient to help us as we go through the process of getting out of debt.

Yeah, I can certainly appreciate that. And so when you're trying to get out of debt, you're looking for any opportunity to cut spending so you can free up margin to apply to debt reduction. The challenge with any kind of insurance is just it's offsetting a risk that's unknown, right?

So we just don't know if we're going to need it or not. I think when it comes to medical expenses, the bottom line is it comes down to estimating your need for medical services. The more services you think you'll need, the lower deductible you'll want and the more you're willing to pay in the form of higher premiums. At the end of the day, though, it's probably cheapest for you to buy a single policy from each of your employers rather than one policy as a family, especially if your employer is covering a portion of it. But at the end of the day, I think typically folks who anticipate they'll have a lot of medical expenses will go with the lower deductible health insurance plan. Those who think we're just in for an annual checkup and we're in a season where we just don't have a lot going on medically. Well, then you don't care if your deductible sky high because you don't anticipate paying it. And so you'd rather have the low premium.

So some of it's just unknown in other parts of it are just assessing your current need for medical services and then making an educated decision at that point. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. Does not appreciate that. Absolutely. Thanks for your call today.

Quickly to Chicago. Donita, I've got just about 30 seconds. Yes. Thank you for taking my call. My question is, with the interest rates going up in the home home buying market, is it a good idea to buy a home right now? Yeah.

You know, it's so hard. I think the key is, are you ready to buy the house? Do you have that 20 percent down payment? Is that mortgage interest rate or is the mortgage payment with these high interest rates going to be more than 25 percent of your take home pay? If it is, I'd probably wait. If it isn't, you may decide it's time to go ahead and buy. I think we're probably looking at interest rates in the next year around five and a half percent.

That would be my best guess. Thanks for your call today. Faith in Finance Live is a partnership between Mooney Radio and Faith Buy. I'm grateful for my team and for you. See you next time.