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When Spouses Invest Together

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore
The Truth Network Radio
September 15, 2023 5:22 pm

When Spouses Invest Together

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore

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September 15, 2023 5:22 pm

Two become one in marriage—but what does that mean, exactly, when it comes to investing? Join us for today's Faith & Finance Live when host Rob West will welcome Rachel McDonough to explain the benefits of both husband and wife engaging in the process of investing. Then Rob will answer your calls about various financial topics. 

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Two become one in marriage, but what does that mean exactly when it comes to investing?

I am Rob West. Should both spouses be included in investment decisions? Rachel McDonough certainly thinks so, and today she'll tell us about the benefits of both husband and wife engaging in that process. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, Rachel McDonough is our guest today.

She's a certified financial planner and certified kingdom advisor. Rachel is also an expert in helping folks align their investments with a Christian worldview. And Rachel, it's great to have you back with us. Thank you, Rob.

Glad to be here. Rachel, we've got to lay some groundwork perhaps before we start talking about married couples investing. So maybe you can start with the differences between how men and women tend to think or approach life. Yeah, let's just start with some broad generalities about men and women, and then keeping in mind that these are not going to fit for every couple, but I bet at least a few of them will resonate.

So as you think through this list, think of which descriptions apply to you and your spouse. First of all, builders versus beautifiers. Men tend to focus more on function and women tend to focus more on form.

Next, risk takers versus nest builders. We find often when we do a risk tolerance score, a man's risk tolerance tends to be higher than his wife. How about task-focused versus relationship-focused, big-picture versus detail-oriented, factual versus intuitive, and often men are more compartmentalized, whereas women are more centralized, seeing everything as interconnected.

And then this is my favorite. Men tend to be the head of the home, whereas women are the heart of the home. So regardless of whether your unique marriage fits with these generalities about men and women, I also just want to remind us of the old adage that opposites attract.

In many couples, there will be one person who is more of the thinker and one who is more of a feeler, and of course, both are equally important. Yeah, that's so true, Rachel, and so helpful. You know Ron Blue well, of course, one of my mentors, and Ron would often tell the story of a well-known pastor that was a client of his, who was also a Bible teacher, has written many books, and he would have dinner once a year with this pastor and his wife, and they would go over the finances, and she'd want to go over every line of the financial plan. And at some point during the dinner, and Ron said this would happen every year, he would get up to excuse himself to go to the restroom. Ron would go with him, and on the way he would say, so how are we doing? And Ron would say, you're doing fine. And he'd say, great.

And that was all he wanted to know. And I think it highlights exactly what you're talking about. Now, Rachel, how do these differences, though, show up in financial decisions? Obviously, I gave one example there, but how have you seen it show up?

Yeah, I've seen a few patterns. So one of the common ones is that the husband may focus more on big picture retirement planning, big dollar amount decisions, like big investments, and the wife may be the one who actually pays the bills, right? The husband might lead the process when it comes to acquiring a big ticket item like buying a home or buying a car. Whereas the wife may cumulatively be spending more money over the course of their lifetimes by just shopping for household items or groceries. And then the one that we talked about already was I just think it's worth mentioning again, men tend to have a higher risk tolerance than women do. And yet if they will come together and meet in the middle, they often find that the compromise is really the best fit for the family.

Well, I think that's exactly right, Rachel. So what are some of the reasons that you've found that couples operate this way where only one of them is overseeing the investments? Well, the big one I think is busyness. And there's sort of a need in marriage to implement a specialization of labor, right? The need to just divide and conquer in order to get through the to-do list for the family. But there's also a really positive reason that sometimes this occurs. And that is that there's something in the heart of a man, I think in particular that wants to provide for his family and feels blessed when his wife will just trust him with the investment decisions and feel confident that he's able to do that.

I think you're exactly right. Well, we're going to continue to unpack this man and woman, man and wife managing investments. What are the benefits of doing that together? We're joined today by Rachel McDonough, Certified Financial Planner and Certified Kingdom Advisor with WealthSquared.

You'll find them online at Following this interview, your questions today at 800-525-7000. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance Live.

I'm Rob West. I'm joined today by Rachel McDonough, Certified Kingdom Advisor. Her firm is called WealthSquared, and we're talking about investing together as a married couple.

And just before the break, Rachel, you were talking to us about how men being the head of the home and the woman being the heart of the home, we might think of that as thinker and feeler. So how does that apply specifically to investing? The thinking spouse may tend to ask, as you might guess, more technical questions about a potential investment to discover the financial pros and cons, focusing on factual understanding of all the options. So for example, the thinker may ask, how much return could I expect or how much risk would I be taking?

How long might my capital be locked up for or what are the fees? On the other hand, the feeling spouse, the heart of the home, may be more concerned about ensuring that the investment is going to be safe or available for the needs of the family. Let's say there are tuition payments coming up for a kid who's heading off to college. The feeler might be more concerned about the relational component. Also, studies have shown that women are actually really interested in socially responsible investing and thinking about how the investment aligns with the family's values. Are the portfolio companies acting ethically?

Are they engaged in exploitation through child labor or something that's happening in their factories abroad? The studies, the research showed that this is actually very important to women, although I have seen it important to both men and women. Yeah. Well, those are really important differences and I think really highlight the opportunity here by doing this together to make a better investment decision with their advisor. Let's talk about some of the potential dangers of having just one spouse make the investment and long-term planning decisions.

Yeah. Rob, I think the most obvious danger is that women tend to live five to six years longer than men on average. And so I have walked several recently widowed women through the steep learning curve on investing and making real estate transactions, thinking about retirement planning and other financial concepts that are complicated all at a time when they really just need space to grieve. So I actually have a word of encouragement for both types of spouses, the thinker and the feeler, in addition to just the likelihood of longevity. Let's remember that if you're the feeler and you see your spouse as more financially savvy or more analytical and that's caused you to be supportive or more passive in this area, let's just back up for one minute and recognize that you may be putting a massive responsibility on his shoulders if you're intentionally or unintentionally disengaging from that long-term planning and investment decision-making process. So you would not expect your spouse to unilaterally plot out your career path or dictate how you're going to spend your time. But if we're abdicating responsibility and not engaging in the process, we really are putting a burden on our spouses. And it's likely that at some point, we're not going to be happy with the outcome that our spouse's decisions achieve, which can cause friction in the marriage. On the other hand, if you are the thinker, the more financially savvy of the couple, perhaps, who may be leading the investment decisions, there's a different sort of danger for you. I was reminded recently of a story from Larry Burkett, where the husband was about to invest a large sum of money with a well-respected businessman.

Now, he had crunched all the numbers, done all of his analysis, reviewed all the facts and the investment appeared very sound. But when he introduced his wife to this man, she was not impressed. She thought, this guy kind of gives me the creeps. There's just something off about him. And he did push through and made the investment decision anyway, despite her concerns.

And it ended up that they did lose a lot of money. So you never want to be in a position where you've kind of pushed forward in that decision-making process without pausing to listen. Sometimes the voice of the Lord will come through our spouse and there's a protection for us in just slowing down and listening. Yeah, that discernment factor is huge.

We don't want to miss that opportunity. Rachel, do both spouses need to be involved in all financial tasks for the family or are there only some that are really critical? I would say, Rob, when it comes to smaller decisions, like should we renew the $5,000 CD for another six months or paying off monthly bills, that kind of thing, it's really obviously not important for both to be involved. However, whenever significant dollars are at stake, whenever there's a long-term outcome that's trying to be achieved, we want both spouses to have their values, their priorities, their perspectives, and their goals represented in that plan and in the investment decision.

Yeah, that's really helpful. All right, Rachel, sum this up for us. What is the potential benefit of making both investment and major financial decisions together? Well, Genesis 1-28 reminds us that in the image of God, He created them, both male and female, He created them. So there are different attributes of God that are represented in the masculine and in the feminine. And we know that we have a better perspective when we come together. Also, Genesis 2-18, the Lord said it's not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper that is suitable for him. And I think sometimes, ladies, we tend to let the man take control and let him make decisions, but we don't want to leave him out there by himself.

We don't want to hang him out to dry. And he needs the support of his helpmate. Ecclesiastes 4-9 tells us that two are better than one.

And wow, is that true. If both spouses are engaged, they have the power of helping one another to discern the right course of action. They agreed when they got married, for richer or for poorer. But I find that it's better when significant investment decisions that really can result in the richer or poorer are made prayerfully and in unity. I often tell clients I'd rather that they make the right decision the right way, going through each step of their own decision making process, than to make a rushed decision.

That's really helpful. Rachel, we have just a minute or so left for that spouse that's hearing this today and says, Yes, that's what I desire. But her spouse, let's say, has been managing everything, and she wants to be a part of it. How would you encourage her to approach that conversation?

Well, I think delicately, you know, first of all, I think, you know, men, especially those who've been seeing this as a way that they serve their wives and their families, you don't want to come up with an approach that's very confrontational, but a gentle approach that says, you know, statistically, women are likely to live longer than men. What do you think I need to know about the way that we're investing in order to just kind of get myself up to speed? And if I've put too much responsibility on your shoulders in this area, I want you to help me get educated and involved and get engaged with our investment choices. Yeah, that's really helpful.

Unfortunately, we're gonna have to leave it there for today. Rachel's so grateful to have you stop by. By the way, folks, if you're a woman in the Denver or Colorado Springs area, and you'd like to meet Rachel and hear more on this topic, you may want to grab a pen. The National Christian Foundation will be hosting two women's events October 4th and 5th with Rachel as the speaker. She'll be diving deeper on the topic of men, women and investing for impact. And you can request information at Rocky Mountains at Rachel, thanks for joining us today.

Thank you. That's Rachel McDonough, certified financial planner and certified kingdom advisor. You can find out more at That's All right, your calls are next, 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. I'm Rob West, and this is Faith and Finance Live. We'll be right back. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live.

I'm Rob West. All right, it's time to turn the corner and talk about anything financial today. We've got two lines open, 800-525-7000. Also Jerry Boyer will stop by in our final segment today. We'll look forward to that as well. We're going to dive in beginning in Pittsburgh today. James, go right ahead.

Well, hi, Rob. I have a bit of a situation that we're trying to scratch our heads on. My daughter is 21, and she decided to buy a car.

We didn't know that she was doing this. We had advised her another route, but anyways, this is where we're at. The car's about worth $12,000. Between some gap insurance and taxes and things, she ended up getting a loan for 18,000. It's about 21% interest rate, and it's over six and a half years. We're about six months in right now. We want to get out of that situation.

We know it's not ideal. I think it ended up being maybe $40,000 would be end up paying in the end. We're looking to try to refinance in a way that would make sense. She does have another vehicle that's about $5,000 out on that loan. This is about where we're at trying to think of what's the best route to go.

Yeah. Well, you really wouldn't just be able to refinance it altogether. You'd have to refinance it at probably what it's worth and then perhaps get a personal loan of some kind in addition to that. Are you in a position to help in terms of paying it down? Maybe you match her payments and try to get to the car's value as soon as possible so you're at par between the loan and the car value so it could be sold?

What do you all have in mind at this point? With the two-vehicle situation, that's what we're trying to figure out. Trying to sell something is probably in our best interest, selling one or both vehicles and probably eating the rest if there's still a negative financial situation there. That's really where we're scratching our heads because there was a co-buyer on the car and so that's why we're trying to refinance that one.

So there's a co-signer, somebody that signed on the loan for the $18,000? Correct. Yeah. And that person is not in the picture right now so that's part of the situation. Yeah. Well, I assume they would love for you to pay off that loan as well because they're equally responsible for it now even though they're not in the picture.

So what would you ultimately like to be left with? Which car best fits your budget and your needs and offers her reliable transportation when it's all said and done? Right. Not the car that we owe $18,000 on is not the best car. That's a Chevy and there's a Subaru that she bought herself and that would be the better car to have.

Okay. So she's got two options at this point. Really, the first option is to sell it and then you all would need to get a loan. Either she would need to qualify for a loan or if you all had the ability to help her, you could write a check for the balance, which it sounds like would be around $6,000.

I mean, I would confirm that. Cars, even though we're down 6% on used cars year over year, perhaps it's worth a little bit more than you think if you were to sell it on a private sale. Hopefully it is, which closes that gap between the $12,000 you think it's worth and the $18,000 you owe. Obviously, at that interest rate, we want to get it out from under it as soon as possible. Are you all in a position where you can help her either by stroking a check all up front or over time helping her to pay it down and is that something you'd like to do? Yeah, it could be something we're open to. We also know that sometimes, yeah, we're open to that. We want to make sure that life lessons are definitely learned. So we don't want her to be negatively impacted for years to come with a bad credit score or anything like that either.

Yeah. Well, her credit score won't be affected as long as she continues to make the payments. Obviously, if she were to turn the car in, which some people will do, that would trash your credit and then there may be a judgment against her for the deficiency balance. So I think you've got a couple of options. First, praying through it and saying, how do we want to help? That could be just encouraging her to live within her means to learn from this, to continue to pay it out, ultimately paying back that $40,000, which is not ideal, but perhaps, you know, would be something that would stay with her for a while and cause her to realize the severity of, you know, buying within her means and not paying a lot of exorbitant interest. That could be scenario one. Scenario two is you say, no, you know, we feel like she has already learned from this and we want to be part of the solution. And so one approach would be to say, listen, every dollar you send above the monthly payment, we're going to match it. Or you might even match from the first dollar, including the monthly payment. However, you guys wanted to approach that.

But the idea would be that you'd accelerate the principal reduction to try to get that car down, you know, to its actual market value in terms of the balance owed on the mortgage, not mortgage, but the car loan as quickly as possible. So then you could turn around and sell it and then satisfy the note and then she uses the other car from that point forward. And hopefully she's learned a valuable lesson. I would probably take one of those two approaches.

I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong. You know, there is a case for tough love and to learn a valuable lesson and to let her just kind of see this through on her own. And there's another case to be made that, you know, it's appropriate because you all have the financial ability to do so. And you don't feel like you're getting in the way of what God might be teaching her by, you know, helping to be part of the solution.

I could certainly go either way, but I think that's the goal is to try to get this paid down to the true market value in terms of the amount owed as quickly as you can so it can be sold. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I do think, you know, forgiveness is something that God teaches us as well and gives us a way out whenever we need it. So if we can do that for her, I think that might be the route that we're looking for.

But yeah, the insights run. This is well, you're welcome. And I like the idea of doing it in a way that reinforces the right behavior. So, you know, that compromise approach would be to say, hey, you're responsible for the monthly payment, but every dollar you can send above that we're going to, you know, we're going to match it. And that way, you know, she's encouraged to really dial back her spending because the more she can put toward that car, the more you guys are going to kick in to help pay it down.

And that's just one scenario. But I think those kinds of ideas that drive her toward the right disciplines that she can carry with her much, you know, beyond this experience will be helpful. James, appreciate your call today. Thanks for being on the program. Folks, we're going to take a quick break. Can we come back?

All the lines are full. We've got some great questions coming up. So don't go anywhere. This is Faith in Finance Live. We'll be right back. Great to have you with us today on Faith in Finance Live. Hey, let me mention Faith in Finance Live is listener supported.

What does that mean? Well, it just means that we do what we do because of your generous financial contributions, your tax deductible gifts to the ministry here at FaithFi. If you'd like to make a gift, perhaps you consider yourself a part of the Faith in Finance family. You have found some benefit in this program. Maybe you've been able to apply something to your financial life and you'd love to give back. Well, we'd certainly be grateful. You can give quickly and easily online at

That's Just click the give button. All right, back to the phones we go to Florida.

Hi, Mary Ann. Thanks for your patience. Go ahead. Thank you, Rob, for taking my call. I do appreciate your ministry.

Well, thank you. I am retired and also have a will in place. And my children, my daughter was talking to her financial planner and telling me that possibly I should put a ladybird deed in my will. And I wanted to know what you thought about that. My home is worth quite a bit.

I live on an acre. It's worth probably over $500,000. And it is, of course, paid for. And I'd like your comments on that if you could.

Okay, yeah, very good. It's very similar to what we also call a transfer on death deed, also what's known as a life estate. Those are somewhat interchangeable.

There's some differences with each of them. But essentially, a ladybird deed allows what's called a life tenant to live in a property during their life. So that would probably be you in this case. And then upon the death of the life tenant, a second party, who's known as the remainderman or the beneficiary, and there could be more than one, inherits the property. So when the property is inherited through a ladybird deed, the beneficiaries receive what's called a stepped-up tax basis, which that's a benefit from a tax standpoint because your cost basis on that property is what you paid for it. And that, if you were to sell it, would determine how much capital gain you would pay. Now, because it's your primary residence, you may not have to pay any capital gain.

There are certain exclusions. But if somebody else were to be gifted this property, they would have your cost basis and then they would pay taxes on it. But with the inheritance of the property through a ladybird deed or what's called a life estate, they would get the property, but they would get the stepped-up basis. So the basis for the property to determine taxes would be stepped up to the market value as of the date of death. The real objective here, why folks use these, is that they're trying to pass the property outside of probate. So it passes efficiently and effectively so that there's not any delay on it or added costs, that kind of thing.

So it can be a very effective tool. And I think if you've decided who you want to receive the home, this type of ladybird deed or a life estate or what's often called a transfer on death deed, which is not available in every state, could be a great tool to make sure that this property is passed efficiently, but retaining all of the tax benefits of inheriting a property. So I think your next step would be to visit with an estate attorney who could advise you on exactly which of these is best and then put it in place. You'd file that with the County Records Office, the new deed, and then that would be in place and it'd be a great part of your overall estate plan. My only question to you is, after that, if I would put this in place, if I would decide to sell it and move, could I still do that? Yes, absolutely. And that's one of the benefits of the ladybird deed is that it does allow you as the life tenant to both revoke it at some point, take it back, and it allows you to get a mortgage on the property if you ever wanted to do that without the consent of the remainderman.

So, yes, you'd be able to revoke that ladybird deed and then you could sell the property at that point. Well, guess what? That sounds wonderful and marvelous. And thank you so much. And I think you are your ministry is fantastic.

I listen every day. Well, I'm so glad to hear that. That's a real privilege and an honor to hear you say that, Mary Ann.

It's our desire to be an encouragement, to be hopeful, but to point you back to the scriptures as you think about this high calling you have of managing God's money. So thank you for that encouragement. It means a lot. Well, thank you so much. And God bless you, babe. And may the Lord bless you as well. Have a wonderful weekend. Boy, that was delightful. She's sweet. To Michigan.

Dennis, go right ahead. Yes, Rob, I have bought three rare coins from the U.S. government mint. I'm wondering what you think of that as an investment.

Yeah. You know, I mean, there's plenty of folks that really like these. I mean, investing in collectibles that can increase over value can provide significant gains in some cases.

There's of course, no guarantees. A lot depends on the price you pay when you purchase the coins and then the price you accept when you sell them. You know, you have to know what you're doing and you need to have some people that you know that you're buying from that will give you a fair price based on the numismatic value of these coins. Now, it's quite different than just buying the precious metals, because when you're buying the precious metal, it just comes down to what is the spot price, which is readily available. And then what am I paying as a premium over that to make the purchase with the rare coins is completely different because, you know, it's the it's not just the underlying value of the metal, it's the coin itself and how rare it is and what value is placed on it by a numismatist that could, you know, give you an appraised value for it. So it's not an area that I have expertise in. So therefore, I would never go into that. But it's certainly something that you can learn a lot about.

You could start small if it's something you enjoy and you find a trusted dealer who can, you know, help you buy and sell these and where you understand the appraised value and what you're getting into. You know, I don't have any problem with it. I think it's just one of those things where, you know, it takes some time and expertise in order to do it right, so that you truly can buy something that, you know, can appreciate over time.

Does that make sense? Yes, sir. Okay, you're welcome.

I think at the end of the day, I would probably, you know, keep this a relatively small portion of your overall investment strategy unless this is an area you really want to dedicate a lot of time and energy to. Dennis, thanks for calling today. We appreciate you being on the program.

To Twin Lakes. Hi, Mike. Go ahead.

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. So I have about $30,000 currently in I-bonds. I don't have access to all of that until March of 2024. And with the percentage of I-bonds going down, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to take those out. I'd be under the five years to take those out and put those into CDs or any other avenue that you would suggest. My time horizon with that is we're looking to purchase a house, but not until the summer of 2025.

Got it. Yeah, I like I like that a lot because think about it this way. I mean, if you on the portion where you're paying and maybe it's all of it, the three month penalty, you know, if you think about your rate for the year, you know, you're getting the blended rate of four point three and six point eight, probably. So somewhere around five and a half. And then you're going to get back three months at the four point three. I think it's still worth you getting that money out and then redeploying it in a CD. It's been a great investment while you held it. But now it's time to move to something that's going to give you a little bit more yield because come November, that rate's coming down even even further as that composite rate reflects the work the Fed has done to bring down inflation. So, yeah, I like the idea of you pulling that money out when you can redeploying it.

I think a CD given the time horizon you're describing makes sense. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back. Well, it's great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live.

I'm Rob West. Joining me in this segment, my good friend Jerry Boyer. He stops by each Friday with his market analysis and commentary today. He's on the road. He's been visiting a conference, been participating in a conference on corporate engagement.

Jerry, always learning, always having conversations. How has the conference been? The conference has been terrific. I mean, it really feels like the tide has so turned right now. There are motivated, organized, bold people who are Christians who are saying, we're not just going to slink off. We're going to deal with these companies. We're going to bring our worldview to bear. We're going to vigorously defend our point of view.

We're going to use the law, you know, in ways that are clever and to our advantage and strategic. And we're seeing what's happening in corporate America. We're seeing amazing reversals.

I think it's early in the process. We were basically missing for 30 years. So we got a lot of making up to do. But so far, it's really amazing how much corporations are starting to get the message and saying, wait a minute, maybe we got way too far into cultural war politics and taking sides. And there's a motivated group of people who know what they're doing. A lot of investors, a lot of people that you and I know together in your capacity with kingdom advisors who are boldly proclaiming the truth.

Yeah. And it seems like, Jerry, although there's a whole variety of issues and proposals that are being put forward, the common drumbeat is Mr. CEO, Mrs. Board of Directors. How about you focus on your core business instead of playing politics, right? Yeah, I think running the biggest bank in the world is already a full time job. It doesn't need to involve making decisions about religious liberty policy or who's worthy or let's say your Apple company, which is by market capital, you know, the largest corporation in America.

That seems like a full time job. And adding to that, that we think that maybe Bible apps should be taken down like olive tree or Koran apps. Or maybe we should decide which charities are worthy and which aren't religious charities aren't worthy, or maybe taking positions on any number of culture war issues. Maybe you don't take on that second, you know, that don't moonlight as a political philosopher or as a pack, or as a think tanker, you know, what make the iPhones you're good at that, but you're not so good at politics. Yeah, well, Silicon Valley Bank taught us that doesn't end well when you get distracted from your core business, I guess, right? I mean, they I mean, their risk officer basically took a year off to focus on diversity initiatives, and other aspects of the social agenda of ESG.

I mean, and then they imploded. I mean, you take your eye off the ball, it's really hard to run a major corporation, it's a very difficult job. And to add this other stuff for, you know, just to kind of give in to activist groups, or maybe you think it's legacy or whatever. And it destroys value. Look what it did to Disney, look what it's doing to Target. It's and it's contrary to the fiduciary responsibility. They're not the owners. And I remember Howard Schultz said to a friend of mine, this friend didn't like the position they had taken on a on a culture war issue. And he was at the annual meeting. And Howard Schultz said, Well, if you don't agree with us, you shouldn't own a Starbucks company, you shouldn't own shares in our company. Well, hold on a second. You're a publicly traded company.

You don't get to decide who owns shares, you know, shareholders, fire or hire CEOs, CEOs don't get to hire or fire shareholders. And these quick these CEOs at some point, it's like, well, I'm a billionaire, and I'm rich and I'm powerful. Now, I guess I'm going to take up social causes. Okay, fine. If you're going to do that, retire first. Yeah, yeah, exactly right. Now, Jerry, you mentioned Apple, that's a company you've been working on a proposal as of late on behalf of one of your large Christian clients.

Give us just an update on what you've been doing. Yeah, well, the proposal which just went into Apple this week, and the idea is supposed to be on the ballot. Now, they're likely to fight it.

I think we're likely to prevail if they try to fight it, but we'll see, basically looks at this issue of deep platforming. Like for instance, you know, Apple took down apps at the behest of the Chinese government. Chinese government didn't want people to be able to buy a Quran app or olive tree, a Bible app.

I guess you're only just allowed to worship Xi, right? I mean, it's a Maoist dictatorship. And Apple gave into that. Well, the proposal is basically saying you need to explain why you're giving into that. What's the shareholder benefit of giving into that?

What's the implications when you violate the civil liberties of somebody like, for instance, religious liberty or viewpoint diversity? You know, what does that open you up to in terms of legal challenges? And why is that your business? We want explanations.

And it's like, we're going to give you a year to put it together. And we're not asking you to spend a whole lot of money. But there needs to be an explanation about the risks that are involved or look what they did with them. You know, when Elon Musk took over Twitter, they threatened to pull the Twitter app from their app store, because Elon Musk was seen as not kind of not being in line with a certain political agenda. But why should he have to be in line with a certain political agenda? Now, they gave in on that because Twitter is a powerful company. Elon Musk is the wealthiest guy in the world. But sometimes there might be, you know, like oppressed Uighur Muslims in China.

They're not wealthy, they're not powerful. And so Apple doesn't give in in that particular case. So I mean, Apple does give in in that particular case. So I think the idea is to put a proposal forward saying, we want to speak for the people who can't speak for themselves. Your app, your app store should not be making decisions based on you not liking the religion or the politics, or because a dictator doesn't like the religion or the politics of the person who's selling the app.

Yeah. Well, I'm delighted, Jerry, that your work is going on. And I'm thrilled to hear that more and more Christians are in fact, leveraging their opportunity as owners, small owners, but in fact, owners of these companies to say, here are our values. And let's let's stay focused on our business. And let's treat everybody equally, which we had seemed like to seem to have a hard time in doing. Jerry, let's pivot to the economy in the markets.

This is the second week of losses for the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ, the Dow off nearly 300 points today. What do you make of that? And what are you expecting for the feds meeting next week?

Yeah, by the way, can I say one more thing about the engagement? Because there's something a small owner doesn't have many votes, but a small owner, a single share owner has a right to attend the annual meeting and log on. And just at this conference, someone who's been on the corporate side for most of their life said, if you log on and you start asking questions, management listens to that. So you've got how many tens of thousands of listeners. When the Apple board meeting comes up, a lot of them own shares in Apple and other companies are going to be talking about log on, ask a question and you move the needle.

All right. So back to market. I think, again, it's another issue of mission drift, but that's supposed to basically be the lender of last resort, not the micromanager of the economy.

So again, being a central bank seems to be a full-time job in and of itself, you know, and regulating the sound currency. And instead they're trying to micromanage the economy. They want to slow the economy down. They want to raise unemployment.

I know that sounds crazy, but they do. They've said it because they think it's unemployment is too low. They don't want workers to have bargaining power because if workers have bargaining power, they raise their wages and they think that's inflationary. So they want higher unemployment. So workers are too scared to ask for a raise. I know this sounds crazy, but really this is Keynesian economics.

Greg just wrote a piece for the Wall Street Journal last week saying unemployment's rising, but that's good because that's the Fed plan to fight inflation. That's a dumb way to fight inflation. The problem isn't there too many people working. The problem isn't that we're making too much money. The problem is the central bank is making too much money. Now, when we make money, we work and exchange it.

We do work and exchange it for value. That's creating wealth. The Fed just makes money.

They just print it. That's what causes the inflation. So inflation isn't the fault of the people. It's not the fault of business. Inflation is the fault of a central bank that debased the currency because they were trying to micromanage the economy. That is not the job of the central bank to be the major investor or the major planning agency of an economy.

They're just supposed to be there to lend in rough times and to keep a stable value to the dollar. Again, that's a full-time job in and of itself. Stick to that. That's right.

But it seems like their playbook is, in fact, exactly what you're describing. All right, Jerry, we're going to let you go. I know you're on the road, but I always appreciate you, my friend. Thanks for stopping by and thanks for all the great work you're doing in the corporate engagement space. And for all the great work you're doing with this show.

All right. Appreciate it, Jerry. We'll talk to you real soon.

That's Jerry Boyer, president of Boyer Research and our resident economist here at Faith and Finance Live. All right, let's round out the program today. Back to the phones to South Haven, Minnesota. Sherry, go right ahead. How can I help you? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. I'm going to be coming into a large sum of money in the future within the next six months or so.

And it's a substantial amount. I don't know what to do. Do I go to a financial advisor? Do I get help with somebody? Where to put the funds?

I'm 64, so I need to know what do I do? Yeah. Well, I appreciate you asking. Absolutely.

You need some wise counsel. And as you said, it's a substantial sum of money. Doesn't matter how much it is, but you want to be a good steward of that.

And that means having somebody to walk alongside you, not so they can tell you what to do with it, but they can ask a lot of questions. Understand first, what are your values as a believer? What is God doing in your life? What are your needs?

What are your passions around giving and being able to support the work of the Lord? How should it be invested? How might it be used in the future? And what's the time horizon associated with that? As they ask all these questions, then together you all can create a plan that says here's how much we're going to keep liquid.

So it's readily available. Here's how much we might invest in. And then what will we invest it in? Well, you could talk about that and should use stocks or bonds or gold or all of the above. What about your convictions around faith-based investments and avoiding certain companies because they're misaligned with your values? I mean, all of that can be discussed with an advisor, and that's exactly where you want to go from here.

They can also help you protect it from a tax standpoint and just be really thoughtful about any taxes that would be incurred along the way. So what I would do is head to our website, That's Click Find a CKA.

Interview two or three CKAs in your area and find the one that's the best fit. Thanks for calling. Faith in Finance Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and Faithfi. Thank you to Tahira, Amy, Josie, and Jim. Couldn't do it without them. Thank you for being here as well. We'll see you next week. Bye-bye.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-10-07 13:08:49 / 2023-10-07 13:25:51 / 17

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