The Giving Heart

There are only four things you can do with money.

The question is, are you doing them in the right order? Hi, I'm Rob West. We say it often. When it comes to money, there are only four things you can do with it. Live, give, owe, and grow. Well today, Sharon Epps joins us to talk about the giving part of that equation. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, we're always blessed when Sharon Epps takes a short break from her duties at Kingdom Advisors, where she serves as president, to join us here on the program. Sharon, it's great to have you back. It's the favorite part of my day today.

Well, I'm delighted to hear that. You always have a great way of explaining the idea of live, give, owe, and grow. And you do it in a way that dessert lovers can certainly relate to because you describe it as a pie. We like to call it the live, give, owe, grow pie. And the unique thing about the pie is when one slice grows, another one is smaller. And that happens not only with the pie, but in the areas of money as well.

When one allocation takes a bigger slice, another area has to shrink. Now most of the world makes money decisions or cuts up their pie in this order. They live first, they owe, then they grow, then they give. And that puts pressure on giving because it comes last. God's order is different. And have you noticed that his ways do tend to be opposite of the world's ways in every area of our lives. So God's order for many decisions is that we give first, we grow, owe, and then we finally live.

Yeah, that's really helpful. Now, how is giving different from the other three money decisions? Well, even though when we talk about finances, giving is expressed as an amount, giving is actually a matter of the heart. And giving breaks the power of money in our lives. And so there's something different about giving that it's important to realize.

And it can become legalistic if the focus is only on the amount and not on the attitude. So let's talk about the heart. There's three things. First of all, understand the purpose of our wealth is for giving. This scripture was breakthrough for me, 2 Corinthians 9-8. God is able to bless you abundantly so that you can be generous and share with others. So the whole purpose of our wealth is to be generous and share. Next, we need to understand the purpose of the tithe. There's four things that the tithe does. And my favorite one I discovered in Deuteronomy 14-23. Back in the Old Testament, God said that when you tithe it so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always. We learn to revere or to cherish Him.

What a joy. That's such an amazing purpose for the tithe. Secondly, it does help us discipline ourselves to put God first and give Him our best. Thirdly, tithing can be a meaningful guideline to help us as we make decisions on our giving. And then finally, tithing gives a roadmap or a pathway on how to give.

That's so helpful. It really allows us to understand the heart behind our giving. Now, how does giving then relate to the other uses of money, the live, the owe, and the grow?

Well, let's take each one briefly. Let's think about live. First of all, lifestyle decisions can actually hinder my giving. When I have a lack of margin and time and money, those are my two greatest barriers to giving, according to research done by our friends over at Generous Church. And let me give you a quick practical tip. If you'll take the Big Three assessment at faithfi.com slash live to determine whether your living expenses might be limiting your giving opportunities.

Let's see if those are out of line. Now, let's think about, oh, we know that the borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22.7 tells us that. Well, when I've over committed to debt, my hands are tied in giving decisions. So my money has to go to the lender instead of the option of giving to others.

And then finally grow. Now you might say, how can my savings hinder my giving? Well, first of all, savings is important. It's biblical. But am I relying on my savings more than God?

Are there times when he might call me to actually give from my savings? So the bottom line is the order matters. Give first, whatever is left until the last is going to receive the leftovers. And if you leave giving till last, it gets leftovers. And we certainly don't want to do that.

We sure don't. Oh, that was so good, Sharon. Well, listen, I would love for you to stick around and we can answer some questions together. How does that sound? Let's do it. All right. Sharon and I will be here to take your calls and questions on anything financial.

The number to call is 800-525-7000. With you today, Rob West and Sharon Epps of Kingdom Advisors. We look forward to hearing from you. We'll be back just around the corner on Faith & Finance Live.

Stick around. Well, we're so thankful to have you with us today on Faith & Finance Live. I'm Rob West. With me again today, Sharon Epps, president of Kingdom Advisors, author and teacher on these topics of a biblical worldview of money management. And Sharon and I together are looking forward to taking your calls today on anything financial.

We started on the topic of giving and generosity, but we'd love to tackle living, giving, owing or growing. So whatever it is today, give us a call. We've got some lines open at 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000. Let's dive in.

We're going to go to Hickory Hills, Illinois. Hi, Ella. Go right ahead. Hello.

How are you? I have a question. Okay.

I have a question. So my husband passed away 17 years ago and I received pension and his job offered me insurance since that time that he passed. So the insurance they take out of the pension over $600 every month.

And I was actually thinking that maybe it would be a better idea to have Christian insurance like Samaritan Ministries. Yeah. Yeah. Very good.

Sharon? Ella, I think you're thinking really great there. $600 a month is a lot. And we would encourage you to check out our friends at Christian Healthcare Ministries. They're a great option. As you are aware, it's a cost sharing opportunity between Christians to help share medical costs.

And so I think that'd be a great path for you to check out and just compare to what the pension is taking. Yeah, that's right. CHMinistries.org. That's CHMinistries.org. They're the oldest in this space.

Also the largest. They've shared billions and billions of dollars. Keep in mind, it's not insurance. And I know we use that word because it's synonymous with helping us cover the cost of healthcare. But as Sharon said, it's a health cost sharing ministry. So wonderful folks that would be aligned with your values and a great option to consider as you look at covering the cost of medical care, which is increasingly very expensive. So we'd love for you to check it out again.

CHMinistries.org. And Ella, thank you for your call today. We appreciate that. You know, Sharon, before we dive into some more questions here, you know, we've been talking today about generosity and about giving. And as you said, perhaps one of the primary purposes, if not the primary purpose for God and trusting us with whatever we have is to be generous. But, you know, we take an hour each day on Moody Radio to talk about these topics. And it's not so we can enrich ourselves, is it?

It's not. It's really to help us have a stronger relationship with the Lord because we believe that God owns it all. He tells us that. And when we fulfill our role as a faithful steward, it grows us closer to him as well as impacts the kingdom and eternity.

Yeah, you're so right. And that's why we come alongside you each day to offer encouragement and hope, but also really to dig into the big themes and passages in Scripture to encourage you with a biblical worldview of money, which is entirely different than what the world would offer in this space. Let's do that together with your calls and questions today. A few lines open. 800-525-7000. Back to the phones.

We'll stay in Illinois to Schomburg. Hi, Irene. Go ahead. Hi.

Thanks for your call. My question is this. About 50 years ago, I became a Christian and I made a decision that in my will, I will leave my house to an evangelical ministry. Someone who preaches the Gospel like Billy Graham did.

Unfortunately, there was only one Billy Graham. And I've been calling a lot of places and I'm just not getting anywhere. I honestly do not know what to do. I have a lot of issues being able to do my will because I also don't have an executor at this point and so on. And I'm working on it.

Yes. So, and my health is kind of failing, so I am running out of time. I really would like to leave my house sold, you know, the proceeds from my house, to a good evangelical ministry which spreads the Gospel because I have a brother and a sister and a whole bunch of descendants, and none of them know God, and there is nothing I can do about it.

If I mention the subject, they hang up on me. So, it's really very heavy on my heart. I want to spread the Gospel.

Yes. Well, I love that and clearly that's on the Lord's heart and should be a focus of our generosity. Let's pray that God opens the eyes of your family members to their need for a Savior.

But I hear you. This is the last stewardship decision you'll make and we certainly want you to align that decision with who is going to be the next steward and if that's a charity or a ministry that's on your heart, that's great. There's only three places we can leave money. The government, heirs, or ministry.

And you've said, I want this to go to ministry. In relation to your home, there in Illinois you have the option for what's called a TOD deed, which is a transfer on death deed for a piece of property so that at your death, outside of probate, your home would pass directly to the beneficiary and that can be not only an individual but also an organization like a 501c3 ministry. So, you could talk to an estate attorney or a real estate attorney about putting that in place. I would also encourage you to think about just your overall estate planning just to make sure you have that valid will because your home doesn't have to pass outside of probate. It could pass through your will to a, you know, to a named ministry or charity through a basic will. But a TOD deed would be another tool to do that even more efficiently because again, it would bypass the probate court as a part of your estate being settled through probate after your death. So, I would encourage you to reach out to a godly estate attorney to work through all of this and have it put in place. If you don't have one, you could contact a certified kingdom advisor in your area and ask for a referral.

They all have one that they work with if not multiple godly estate planning attorneys. So, just go to our website, faithfi.com, click find a CKA and I think once this is all buttoned up you'll be glad you did it. We appreciate your call today, Irene. God bless you. To Zephyrhills Florida Herald, you're next on the program. Go ahead. Yeah, hi. We've been reading the Larry Burkett debt-free living.

Sorry about that. And we have enough money saved up to pay off our house but that would only leave us about $3,500 in our emergency fund but we would have no other debt. So, we're kind of looking to do that and then continue on.

Oh, Harold, that's such a great question. I love your heart to get out of debt. I would encourage you maybe not to pay it all off but to make sure that you have enough in an emergency fund for at least three to six months of expenses because what we see is that emergency fund is actually debt insurance and I would hate to see you pay the house off and then have to get back into debt because your emergency fund was too low. I do think you could start making extra payments as you have your emergency fund built up. Then think about what you could put extra towards your home just to accelerate that payoff. Yeah, is that helpful, Harold? That is. Yeah, we're already giving an extra $2,000 a month.

Yeah. So, we should do that until we have enough in our emergency fund and then pay it off is what you're thinking. Yeah, perhaps set that threshold for a minimum of three or six months expenses, whatever you think is the right number.

We would encourage you not to go below three months expenses and then once that's there and separated, then you have the opportunity either out of current cash flow or additional savings to go ahead and reduce that principal balance with the goal to be paid off as soon as possible and by the way, once you do, you won't ever look back. I've never gotten a call from somebody that says, I wish I didn't pay off that house. It just doesn't happen. Hey, listen, congratulations on following God's principles of managing money, going all the way back to Larry Burkett. Thanks for your call today. Rob West and Sharon Epps with you. We'll be right back. Stick around. So glad to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live.

Rob West and Sharon Epps with you today. We're taking your calls and questions with some lines open, 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000.

You can call right now. Before we head back to the phones, let me remind you, Faith and Finance Live is listener supported, which just simply means that we rely on your listener support, your tax-deductible donations to our ministry to do what we do every day. And so if you've benefited from this ministry, perhaps you enjoy the broadcast or you've found something to be helpful or encouraging, we just invite you to be a financial supporter of the ministry at any amount. And we mean that beyond the giving to your local church and beyond even the giving to Moody Radio. If you'd consider a support to us, we'd certainly appreciate it. Just head to faithfi.com and click the Give button. That's faithfi.com and click Give.

And thanks in advance. All right, let's head back to the phones. 800-525-7000.

We're going to head to Indiana. Hi, Nathan. Thanks for calling, sir. Go ahead. Hi, Rob. Thank you very much for taking my call.

Real quick question. Recently, my wife and I received a gift from her grandmother for $5,000. And each of my children who are dependents also received a gift of $1,000 apiece. And I was just wondering about tax implications on that gift.

Yeah, there are none, which is a good news. So if there were any taxes due, it would be handled by the estate and paid prior to the inheritance that was paid out. In this case, you know, because it was a minimal amount right now, the estate taxes don't kick in until you get north of $12 million. So there is no estate tax. There's not an inheritance tax. So you can receive that gift as an inheritance without any tax implications whatsoever. Now, am I correct that that's what it was or is she living and it was a straight gift? She is living and it was a straight gift. My apologies. As I was saying that, I clued into the fact that you're saying a gift.

So let me back up there. Still no taxes due. She can make a gift of up to $17,000 per person per year. And she doesn't even have to tell the IRS she did it. If she went over $17,000 to any individual, still not taxable, below $12 million in her lifetime, she would just have to file a gift tax form to let the IRS know. But under $17,000, she can make the gift tax free.

You can receive it tax free and then do with it what you'd like. Okay, well thank you for putting me at ease on that and I do appreciate you and your ministry. Well, thank you very much. We appreciate your call today, Nathan. God bless you.

$805,257,000 to North Canton, Ohio. Hi, Marty. Go ahead.

Hi there, Rob. My granddaughter was recently engaged and I would love to give her and her fiancé a book on how to get started on a good financial start and your recommendation. Great. Oh, we would love to make one, Marty, and I love the fact that you're investing in them in that way. One of our favorite books on money and marriage is by our mentor and friend, Howard Dayton, and it's called Money and Marriage, God's Way. It's a great way for them to get on the same page before they get married.

I also want to mention the FaithFi app that can be downloaded at the App Store or on FaithFi.com because it's a place where they could actually start tracking and managing their money together and have conversation from a practical standpoint on how to work together in their finances. Yeah, and how about we give you a gift of both of those just to pass along to them as our gift to you. So here's what we're going to do. Marty, if you'll stay on the line, we'll get your information and we'll do two things. We'll put a copy of Money and Marriage, God's Way in the mail to you so they can work through that. And then secondly, we'll make sure they get a six month pro subscription to the FaithFi app. Our team will be in touch to let them know how to take advantage of that. Or we can give that information to you and then you can pass it along as a part of a gift to them.

But I think this is so key. Sharon, talk about just the importance prior to marriage of talking about early memories of money, how God has wired you, really preparing for money management in marriage. You know, money is an area that couples often don't discuss a lot before they get married and then it becomes a real tension after. So that preparation is incredibly important. Everything from the big things like are we going to buy a house and those kinds of things.

But it's really even in the beginning, those little things. How are we going to set up a spending plan? How are we going to manage money on a daily basis? And those decisions up front will save many, many discussions or perhaps even arguments later on.

Yeah, I think that's so true. All right, Marty. Well, we think this is a great idea for you to invest in your grandchildren or grandchild and future grandchild in law.

So you stay on the line. We'll get that information to you. How does that sound? Oh, that sounds wonderful. Thank you so much. Awesome.

You're welcome. Thanks for your call today. Folks, we've got a few lines open, 800-525-7000. Sharon Epps, along with me today, taking your calls and questions. Let's head to Georgia.

Jennifer, thanks for your patience. Go ahead. Hey there. Can y'all hear me OK? Yes, ma'am. OK. Thank you so much for all your financial advice.

I really appreciate it. I am a teacher in the state of Georgia. I have 10 years until retirement. I could go back to school and get student loans to get my specialist degree, which would give me a raise and also give me higher retirement.

Or would I be better off to invest money in my R.A. and not go to school and not acquire more debt? Yeah, boy, that's a tough one. Sharon, this is a decision making question, right? So how do you process that? Well, I think the first thing is to really define your decision. So you've identified two different options, but there might even be more. And by identifying specifically the decision you need to make, and so perhaps it is, what do I need to do to be most prepared for retirement? Then you can make sure that you've brainstormed potential solutions and not get caught in what we call a binary trap where it's just this or that.

Yeah, that's great advice. Let's do this, Jennifer. Sharon and I have to take a break here, but when we come back before we dive into another call, we'll just continue to unpack this a little bit more. So you be listening to your radio and we'll talk about perhaps just a few additional insights on how you can think about this decision. But I love that you're asking the question. I think Sharon's exactly right.

It's important to put these two opportunities in front of you, but maybe there's a third and identifying what you're solving for is really critical to make that right decision. We want to bring the Lord into that as well. We'll be right back on Faith and Finance Live with much more to come. Well, welcome back to Faith and Finance Live. I'm Sharon Epps and I'm sharing the microphone today with Rob West. We're having a great time taking your calls. And just before we went to the break, we were talking with Jennifer from Georgia about this decision that she needs to make.

She's a teacher and she's trying to decide whether or not to go back to school and get her master's, take on debt, just a few years, about 10 years before retirement or to invest funds in an IRA. And we started this conversation, Rob, with talking about the possibility of getting caught in a binary trap. But what a binary trap just means is I'm thinking I have to do one thing or the other and perhaps it's good to step back and make sure that I'm really defining the decision that I need to make.

And Jennifer, we appreciate you raising this. And I think just a couple of things that we wanted to talk about a little bit further in your situation and really for all of us as we're making decisions is the important role of three things. One is having clear goals. And I mentioned that just before the break in defining that decision. And so is my decision how do I maximize income in retirement or is my decision how am I most fulfilled in my career over these next 10 years before I retire? And so narrowing that down where I really understand what my decision is helps me generate alternatives. And I understand where I'm really headed with that goal.

Yeah. I think the other thing is seeking godly counsel. Are there other Christian teachers around that have navigated through this world? Do you have a financial planner? It's a certified Christian financial planner.

A C.K.A. would be what we would recommend. But having godly counsel to help you take that path. And then above all, prayer. If you're married, prayer with your spouse. But just prayer for clarity on making that decision.

Yeah. And I think that's so helpful, Sharon, because once we narrow that objective down, then we can solve for that. And those wise counselors can help us really lean into that, because if this is a primary decision around maximizing retirement income, well, your financial planner can help you solve for that. If it's really about more fulfillment, even though maybe a secondary goal is the financial piece, well, you can bring wise counsel to the table for that. And I think one of the keys here is this shorter window of time, Jennifer, of only 10 years away from retirement that really is going to drive a lot of this, given potentially the amount of debt you're going to have to take on versus the amount of increased earning potential by this more advanced degree. So we'll ask the Lord to give you some wisdom as you navigate this.

But a great question. All right. Well, let's go to our next caller, Evelyn from Ocala, Florida. Welcome. And how can we help you today? Hi, thanks for taking my call.

I'm calling for my son. He lives with his brother right now, and he only pays $500 a month rent. He's done that for the last two years. And he saved a lot of money. So he's got enough to put 10% down on a $200,000 home. And he's got an emergency fund. Is that smart? Because apartments here are going to be anywhere from $1,300 to $1,500. So he's thinking it'd be better to buy. Is that the right move? Well, first of all, let me congratulate you for raising a responsible son who's doing things like saving money for goals.

And I know you're proud of him for that. I think there's a couple of things to consider. One of those is we typically advise that a prospective homeowner and especially a first time homeowner put down at least 20% as a down payment. The reason for that is less than that, you'll have private mortgage insurance, which just increases the amount that you pay every month without directly receiving a benefit for that. So it gives you also the buyer an opportunity to have enough equity in the home that if there's a slight shift in the market, you don't find yourself upside down. So those are a couple of the considerations. If he's been on this track saving money, I would encourage him to stick with it just a little bit longer and see if he could get that amount up.

Yeah, I think that's great, counsel. I mean, you know, we recognize we're in an interesting environment right now where interest rates are high. We also recognize rent prices are elevated and housing prices are still very high. And so, you know, I think it's going to be often hard to justify putting a lot of money toward rent when you could be building equity. We get that. And yet we just want to avoid that extra cost of the PMI.

We don't want him to get anywhere close to being potentially upside down. Let's say we're to have a downturn in the housing market as we get toward recession. Now, you know, if his mortgage payment is in that 25% of his take home pay and he wants to go in a little less than 20%, well, that's a decision you and he, mainly he is going to have to make. Ultimately, we just want to give you these rules of thumb as a guideline, ultimately. By the way, when you're ready to seek a lender, our friends at Movement Mortgage could be a great resource to you at movement.com forward slash faith. But I'm delighted you're walking alongside him in this, Evelyn, and we'll ask the Lord to give him and use some wisdom as you navigate that. Thanks for your call today. Let's see, to Pennsylvania we go. Hi, Stephanie, go right ahead.

Hi, I have a quick question. I'm just wondering what advice would you give someone to educate themselves about a home equity loan? I was called about that for a friend and I just want to make sure I'm showing them or taking them down the correct path. So this is actually advice to help them. Is that correct?

Right. How would they get started to educate themselves about home equity? Yeah, so I think the danger of home equity loans is you're taking the equity or the amount of ownership that you actually have in the home and you're making that subject to the lender.

So I think I would have a bigger conversation about the purpose for that money and the payback plans and all of those kinds of things. I think one of the things that often happens when somebody's seeking a home equity loan is it's to pay off higher interest rate credit card debt. And what we see happen a lot of the time is the credit card debt might get paid with the home equity loan, but if the source of the credit card debt hasn't been cured, such as overspending, then the credit cards go right back up and somebody finds themselves back in debt. So I would really encourage Stephanie for you to encourage your friend to think deeply about whether home equity loan is the right solution and get some good counsel on that.

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And you know, one of the rules we talk about in borrowing is that the economic cost is less than the economic gain, meaning that it's a productive use of debt. So in this case, the only productive use would be where they're increasing the value of the home, like through an addition or a renovation or some sort of enhancement to the property, and therefore they're tapping the equity to do that. But so often to Sharon's point, people see equity as just a ready access to funds, like it's just sitting there and my home's increasing in value. Why?

Why wouldn't I tap into that for all kinds of things? And we need to recognize the goal of debt is to get it paid off as soon as possible and to borrow as little as possible. So I think they just need to think long and hard to Sharon's point about is this even the appropriate place to go to get funds? And let's make the goal of paying off the home as quickly as possible the priority. In terms of the type of loan, we do like home equity loans typically versus a line of credit because it's got that fixed interest rate. Again, we're in that unusual environment right now where because rates are high, the equity loan, if we're talking about five years or less on a payback, the home equity line of credit may be the better option because then as interest rates come down, they'll enjoy the benefit of that rate coming down too. That the payback is going to extend a lot longer than that.

Maybe you don't do that, but if it's five years or less, I think the home equity line of credit might make some sense. So we've given you a lot to think about. Hopefully that helps you as you help this person navigate this decision. We appreciate your call today, Stephanie. Well, folks, we've still got time for more questions today. We'll continue moving through those. Rob West and Sharon Epps along with you today.

Phone lines are open at 800-525-7000. Much more to come just around the corner. Stick around. We're so glad you've joined us today on Faith in Finance Live. I'm Sharon Epps and I'm sitting in the studio with Rob West and we're having a great time taking your calls today about all things money matters. You know, we talk a lot here about live, give, owe and grow. Those are the four things that you can do with money.

And as we think about managing money as stewards that God owns, we want to be faithful in doing all four things. So we'll go to the phone lines now. Virginia in Tampa, would you join us and let us know what's on your mind? Hi, can you hear me?

I can. Welcome. Oh, wonderful. Thank you for your ministry. This is wonderful.

I have a question. It's for my husband. So two years ago, my mother-in-law passed and she left as an inheritance to a grandson that she adopted her house. And my husband was the one that was taking care of all the paperwork. And he was like her power of attorney. So we just heard about an inheritance tax that we might have to pay.

How does that work? So the home was inherited by the grandson directly from her to the grandson and your husband, she's helping manage the process? Yes, without an attorney.

And I'm sure we're going to need an attorney. But he didn't think he needed one if it was directly in the will. Well, we need to be sure that everything's handled and filed correctly with the deed record so that he truly does have ownership of the house. But as far as taxes go, he should not owe inheritance taxes on that. What happens is when he inherited the home at that time, whatever the current market value of the home was, is what he would be considered his basis in the home or the amount that he actually inherited. And so really the only time that there could be tax implications would be if he sold the property and got a gain on that property, of course, unless it became his own homestead. So I do think there are several issues here. We want to make sure that you've had good legal counsel, that the deed's filed appropriately, it would be helpful to check in with a real estate attorney and just make sure all the paperwork's well done.

Yeah, that's well said. Do you know, so your husband's the executor, did he file a petition and pay the court fees to begin the probate process? He has, he took it to the court and he filled out the paperwork. And this is obviously without an attorney, but I do believe that he needs to seek counsel just so that, to double check everything because he didn't know, someone had said to him, oh, do you have to pay an inheritance tax?

And that's how he found out about that. So yeah, there is no inheritance tax. So if there was a tax, it would be on the estate side prior to it getting to, you know, your grand or your son. But you know, today that that threshold is north of $12 million before estate taxes would kick in. So basically, there was a will, there's an executor named, the executor is appointed by or approved by the court when you file. And then, you know, everything happens from that point forward, the courts involved in that process, but your husband essentially, as the executor, would facilitate all of that. So you know, never a bad idea to get legal counsel. But you know, this should be fairly straightforward. And again, there are no inheritance taxes.

So there shouldn't be any taxes due unless the estate was significant in size. I see. And it wasn't right. All right.

Well, that was my question to you guys. Thank you so much. And God bless you. Thank you, Virginia. I'm glad you called.

All right. Let's go over to Tracy in Chattanooga. How can we help you today?

Hey, my name is Tracy. And I got a couple questions. Okay, here's my first question. My first question is, I was told that the governor, I mean, not the governor, the President Biden had passed, I guess, some type of law stating that there were certain student loans that were going to be discharged. And when I called my student loan company, they told me it wasn't possible. But they sent me a letter and they sent me an email within the last few days telling me that they had discharged my loan. That's my first question.

Yeah. So who did the letter come from? Did it actually come from your student loan manager? It did.

It came. They emailed me from my student loan manager and they sent me a letter from my student loan manager telling me that the letter I got got part of the student loan, the lower part. But they emailed me from my student loan manager telling me that the entire debt had been discharged. And as a matter of fact, I was going to print it today, but I got a letter from Mike. I can't believe that this is real because they said it wasn't going to happen, but they did it anyway. Yeah, well, I would.

Yeah, I get them back on the phone. I mean, this is all obviously still very new and working its way through the system. And, you know, there's still question marks as to whether or not what was done can actually be done by the president through the Department of Education.

So I think there's still a lot of remaining questions. I think my counsel to you would be to continue to keep your payments up to date. Remember, there's a lot of fraud going on right now in light of the confusion. Confusion breeds these type of fraudulent activities where folks will impersonate, you know, a student loan administrator or, you know, some other lender and try to get your information from you. So you just have to be really careful here.

I would get them back on the phone and, you know, find out whether there is any kind of action that has already taken place because our understanding is this is not by any means settled or worked its way through the system. So I'd be very resident hesitant to take anything, you know, based on just the communication you received in the mail. Does that make sense? It does.

It does. Now, my concern is I'm in the letter. It states I've never paid for my student loan. I've had it for over 20 years. But because I never made enough money, they said, well, you've had this loan for 20 years and you don't make enough money. I've been working the whole 20 years, but I've not made a lot of money in those 20 years. Because you have not made enough money, you fell up under some guidelines. They didn't ask me for no information. They just told me you don't have to pay it. I wouldn't pay it anyway. I had it on the forbearance because I couldn't pay it anyway. Sure, sure.

Yeah. So you have the income based repayment option through the federal loan program. I would again turn back to the Department of Education and just make sure you have clarity on what the current state of that loan is. Obviously, it's likely continued to be deferred if in fact you don't meet the income requirements to have to pay. But as to whether or not it's been discharged, I would be I'd take a patient approach to that just to see in fact how that's going to play out.

And I think the Department of Education is your best source of information there. Tracy, thanks for your call today. We appreciate you being on the program.

Quickly to Grand Rapids. Hi, Alvin. How can we help you? Hi, how are you? Doing well. I was I wanted I want to I've been kind of convicted that and try to try budget. I never tried a budget before, but I want to start trying the budget and stuff so I can kind of keep in track with my money and stuff, you know, and I was just wondering how could I get started doing that?

Oh, Alvin, this is Sharon. I'm so glad that you're thinking about that. I think it's a great way for you to be a great steward of God's money.

Let me ask this. Do you use cash or how do you typically do your financial transactions? I usually do checks and a credit card. Okay, I have a debit card and stuff. I have a couple credit cards and oh, you know, and I try to my debit card, but the credit card I try to try to pay it off every month and stuff. So I have no bills, no, you know, nothing but maybe rent and insurance and stuff like that. And I got one other bill that I pay every month and stuff, you know, that's about all I got. Well Alvin, it sounds like you're doing a great job managing not having debt and keeping current on your bills.

I would recommend I think as you get started, sometimes people make it too hard. And so what I would recommend is take a look at your bills, and then look at what you have. In addition to that, I hope that you have the opportunity to be generous and give. As a part of that, we talked at the first of the hour about starting with giving first. So as you think about a budget, or we'd like to call it a spending plan, what is it that you would want to give or be generous with?

Look at paying your bills. And then one of the easiest concepts I love to start with is what is what we used to call the envelopes concept. But basically, it's putting your money in buckets. And for instance, saying for this month, I'm going to spend not more than $400 on food, I don't know what your number is, but that you set that number and you actually set that money aside. We actually the faith fight app is a great way to do that to track your expenses. But you can do it as simply with pen and paper, and just take those main categories after you're giving and after your bills and start working with those first. How does that sound?

Alvin? Okay. Yeah, that sounds good and stuff. And God, I am and I'm not both looking like that. But I believe in giving.

I believe in, I don't really believe in hiding, but I believe giving rewards and the tithe and stuff and I'm blessed to do that and stuff. That's very good. Well, listen, I'm delighted you're thinking about having a spending plan because, you know, when we give every dollar a job or a name, it's going to help us be a more effective steward because it's going to ensure that the money is going to what's really most important to us aligned with our values and whether you use the the true envelope system where you have literally fund those envelopes or you use the the digital expression of that in the faith fi app that you can download at faithfi.com.

That's faithfi.com. I think either one of those Alvin will get you pointed in the right direction. Hey, God bless you, sir. Thanks for being on the program today. We appreciate it.

Sarah and Pina. We appreciate you all calling his way today as well. Unfortunately, we ran out of time. If you'd like to stay there, we'll see if we can get you rescheduled for a future broadcast, perhaps even tomorrow. Thanks for your call today. Sharon, we covered a lot of ground today. So great to have you along with me.

It's been an enjoyable time. That was Sharon Apps, president of Kingdom Advisors. She joins us periodically and we always love when she does well on behalf of our team today. Amy Rio, Stan Anderson, Jim Henry and thankful for Lynn as well handling our phone calls today. I'm Rob West and that was Sharon Apps and Faith and Finance Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and FaithFi. We'll see you tomorrow.