3 Questions for a Values-Based Legacy

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Foul balls and home runs. So maybe you can jump off with that and fill us in. Absolutely. You know, we all have a heart to do well and position our families to have these thriving and enduring legacies that you speak of, Rob. But I found that sometimes in our enthusiasm, we can make it a little too complex for that next generation of stewards and to right size the experience, both in the time involved and the amount of the generosity, giving, granting stewardship is really important. And I think that's one of the foul balls that, you know, your listeners here can be mindful of. And I remember when I tried to teach my kids how to play golf, Rob, I tried to teach him how to like take a stance and what the club trajectory did. And when I asked him to go out again, they were like, not interested, Mom. This is a lot of work.

It is. And I was reflecting with my dad one year and he said, Gene, you need to let them fall in love with the game before you try to teach them all the technical aspects. I think that's a good word for our listeners. Let them learn to fall in love with giving and their expression of it before, you know, you load on the responsibility and all the fine tuning of how they give. Not that both aren't important, but the heart has to lead the how.

Oh, that's so good. And so often, perhaps we get those in reverse order and they miss the excitement and frankly, the privilege, the joy of being generous. Well, we're going to take a look today at three questions that we all have to answer if we want to leave a meaningful legacy of generosity towards God's kingdom. The first one that people often wrestle with, Gene, as you know, is how do I leave an inheritance that will be a blessing and not a stumbling block? Unpack that for us a bit and how families can navigate this concern.

Oh, boy, this is a big one, Rob. And again, the heart desire of the families is usually they want to see their kids flourish and their grandchildren and their loved ones flourish. And yet if we don't start with doing the root work and really build on a solid foundation of the role of wealth in our lives, what it is and what it isn't, you know, we have to do that every day. But in the area of inheritance design, it's critical. If we miss this, everything's at risk. So, you know, what do I mean by that? Well, we all can agree that our resources are not where our identity and our security lie, right?

The Lord Jesus on Calvary earned the right to be the identity and the security. But in this world, it's a constant temptation to develop unanalyzed, you know, unevaluated root threads. Somehow our resources are who we are, or they're our safety net. They're not the hero and villain of our story, right? And yet we might believe that to be true about ourselves, but we forget that's also true about our loved ones. And so inheritance design, I always like to build on that cornerstone, that what we leave behind is a blessing to help fuel the life trajectory that God is working through them. But we have to debunk right out of the gate that whether you leave an abundance or very little, the resources you leave behind will not be the security or the, you know, the plot line in your loved one's life story. So getting the right perspective of wealth is essential.

Yes. Well, that is so key. And I love this idea that, you know, God's always been about our hearts and that our money journey is the training ground of the heart. And if we think about it that way, and as you said, find our identity in him, that's the beginning place.

But then how much is enough or too much to leave to the kids? Well, we'll deal with that and much more just around the corner. Delighted to have Jean McMains, Executive Vice President and Attorney at the National Christian Foundation today to talk more about all of this. Stay with us on Money Wise Live.

We'll be right back. Delighted to have you with us today on Money Wise Live. My guest today is Jean McMains, Executive Vice President and Attorney at the National Christian Foundation.

Jean's worked with literally hundreds of families and business owners over the years to integrate their faith and values into their legacy of generosity. Today, we're talking about a really important topic. How do you think about transferring wealth to the next generation? What does it look like to leave an inheritance that's a blessing and not a stumbling block? How much is too much? Well, we're unpacking that today. And, Jean, before the break, you were sharing that really it's important that we think about the role of generosity in our lives and really transferring wisdom and values before wealth.

But the second question that we have to get to is how much is healthy to leave to my kids without doing harm? How do we help folks work through that decision-making process that you encounter? That's the question everyone loves to jump into, isn't it, Rob?

Like right out of the gate. And we as followers of Jesus, I find we struggle with this. And as I mentioned before the break, you know, how much we leave isn't the hero or the villain. And I think that's important for, you know, people to soak and rest in that it's going to be okay because God's authoring the story. However, the conversation does have to pivot to how much right at the end of the day, those decisions are made.

So I think it's important that we change the question to not what's the right amount, but instead to look at the frame the question a little different. Look at what do I want it to do in the life of this child or grandchild or this loved one? I don't know about you, Rob, but I've had couples that literally are sitting across the table from me and husband, the true story says, when we pass, we're going to give everything to charity because we've already launched our children. They have education and house and they're in the business. And then the wife says, oh, contraire, everything's going to the kids.

We've been very generous to charity along the way. So where do you go with that? I find the way to do that is to change the question. So a cool exercise that your listeners might find helpful.

You could honestly do it on the back of a napkin. I encourage you to do it in a reflective, peaceful, joyful place. But write down the names of the loved ones you want to un-bless with an inheritance. And then ask three questions, Rob. The first one is, what do I hope the inheritance is going to do?

And it's kind of the joyful motion picture. Like, should the Lord choose? What kinds of opportunities and experiences and possessions might be helpful to this child so that they can flourish and pursue all God would have for them? The next question is, what do I anticipate or expect? Now I'm looking at the unique creation God has made in this loved one, their challenges, their giftings, and honestly, a very sober look at their current life trajectory.

And you say, if I were to be taken home to be with Jesus right now, and these resources fell on that child, it's like fuel in the engine and they're barreling down the highway. What does that look like soberly and pragmatically? And then the final question is, you know, do I have any concern?

Sometimes I call them fears, and it might just be contextual. You know, I worry about work ethic, or I had a story about a neighbor down the street with, you know, addictions or relationship challenges. And so if we can get that out of our heads, even as a couple or individual onto a paper, boy, now we've got something to work with instead of some esoteric number on what's healthy or not.

Oh, that's so good. Well, as you know, our friend David Wills says that we pass not only financial capital, but spiritual capital, character capital. And so it's not all about the money. And Jean, what if somebody asked those three questions, and they kind of stop in their tracks like, oh, this could actually take a child who's on the wrong trajectory, not making good life decisions, and actually accelerate that or pull them away from the Lord, what then? Jean Campbell Absolutely, then you have to soberly look at the amount, because what's the goal? The resources we leave won't be the savior of that trajectory. We know who that savior is.

So we want to right size the amount of the fuel in the engine to help our children. You know, I love that old Henry Blackaby study, Rob, all those years ago, experiencing God. Let's see where God's working in the life of that loved one, and structure our inheritance to join him there. David And we don't have to wait until we pass away. What about getting them involved in the giving right now? That actually could be the fuel behind all of this. I love that.

Jean Campbell I kind of famously, not famously, infamously, who knows. But with regard to clients who have done with the estate planning process or throughout, my question is going to pivot to why wait? The estate plans that thrive and flourish are the ones that have a view on where they want to go. They pragmatically see where they are, and they start pouring into those loved ones now and bringing them on the journey, the discipleship journey of stewardship.

David Oh, that's so good. All right, the three questions. What do I hope will come out of this? What do I anticipate or expect?

And are there any concerns that I have? All right, Jean, let's move from this second question of how much should I leave to the kids to the third question. And that is, how do I create inheritances that incorporate the family's heritage story and values? This is something that is often just not even on the radar of the matriarch and patriarch as they think about their legacy plan, right?

Jean Campbell Indeed. And I think it's really helpful for clients before they dive down into the complexity of the estate planning documents and the trust planning that they first elevate it and think in terms of three types of inheritances. Rather than saying family or charity or children or future generations, thinking of it in terms of three can be really helpful. So I think of those as kind of an inheritance to spend to help launch our dependence so they're living independent, productive, and content life trajectories.

That's essential. From there, though, you can create sort of a common family trust to help shape the family story, to highlight those values and experiences that have been a core part of the family togetherness generationally. And it can provide almost the soil or a playing field for multiple generations to come up and say, hey, let's go be creative together, or let's go be servants together, or let's go do lifelong learning together. Whatever those values are, it's kind of like you create the field of dreams and you fund it and you invite them to come play. So I guess the final type of inheritance if you've got one to spend to launch, one to shape to create this field of dreams that families can come together and live out their values and heritage.

And the third type of inheritance is to share a trust or a charity or a donor advice fund that allow people in the family to come together and go serve others and bless others with the resources God's entrusted to them as part of their legacy. I love that. You know, it really does change the conversation and gives you a plan or a path to follow depending upon where the Lord is leading you. We're going to have to bring you back and unpack each of those.

But before we let you go, we've got about a minute left, Jean. One of the most effective tools to help with all of this is a giving fund or a donor advice fund. Tell us how that can be helpful here.

Oh, absolutely. The donor advice funds allows families to rally around this and intentionally do the giving, the setting aside of resources from the growing of those resources to the granting out the dollars to the individuals and charities they love to support. And by breaking it up, Rob, it allows them to do it together with a prayerful intentionality.

So it's simple, it's easy, and it's just a really great little playing field for your family multi-generationally. Oh, Jean, this was so good. Well, folks, if you want to learn more about a giving fund, head to ncfgiving.com where you can open a giving fund today and you can connect with someone on the NCF team locally or nationally to begin this conversation that can even help you with your giving strategy. Again, ncfgiving.com. Jean, thanks for being with us today. Rob, thank you. Jean McMains of the National Christian Foundation has been our guest today.

Again, learn more at ncfgiving.com. We'll be right back. Great to have you with us today on MoneyWise Live. I'm Rob Lasky, your host. We're taking your calls and questions today as we turn the corner from the legacy conversation to, well, any conversation you'd like to have related to your finances.

The number to call with lines open is 800-525-7000. We'd love to hear from you today. You know, we began today with Jean McMains, our good friend from the National Christian Foundation, talking about how you leave a legacy. And, you know, as we think about the legacy we're leaving, there really are three kinds of capital that we leave behind. Our friend David Wills, also with the National Christian Foundation, talks about this.

And you can find an article entitled Three Kinds of Capital We Pass to Our Heirs at ncfgiving.com. But he talks about the spiritual capital that we have the opportunity to pass. This is really the opportunity to pass a legacy of faith, which is really the most important.

It means transferring the gospel to the people who are going to come behind us. And then the character capital. That's the opportunity to really pass on the character traits. We'd like to see our children and grandchildren carry on and make a part of who they are. And clearly work ethic is one of the key parts of that character capital. But then, and only after spiritual and character, it's really the financial capital. And that's what Gene was helping us think through today with some really key questions on making sure we're leaving an inheritance that's going to allow our children and grandchildren to thrive and draw closer to the Lord, as opposed to being a stumbling block in any way.

If our friends at the National Christian Foundation can help you with any of this, including a giving strategy that aligns with your passions and where God is at work, literally around the globe, or setting up a donor advised fund, what they call a giving fund, just reach out to them at ncfgiving.com. All right, we're going to take your calls and questions today. We've got some lines open. Let's dive in at 800-525-7000. First up is Karen in Chicago.

Karen, go right ahead. Hello. I was calling, I wanted, I would like to know if you could just elaborate a little bit on the Treasury bonds. Hmm, yeah, you're probably referring to the I bonds, Karen? Yes. Yeah, we've been talking about this a good bit lately.

I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I said, yeah, I remember you were saying that the most that you could put in for the year is like $10,000? Yeah, that's exactly right.

It's very easy to purchase them, Karen. You just go to treasurydirect.gov, you'd open an account, and then you'd transfer the funds in to purchase the electronic I bonds, I standing for, of course, inflation, up to $10,000 per person per calendar year. The interest rate is a composite rate of a fixed rate, which the fixed portion is at zero. But the semiannual inflation rate, which adjusts every six months, is currently paying 9.62% because of what's going on with inflation right now. So that makes the composite rate 9.62% on an annual basis, although rates are recalculated twice a year. The next adjustment in that rate, based on the consumer price index, will come November the 1st, although with the report we got two days ago about inflation, I expect that rate still to be very attractive. You will need to leave the money in with any purchases for at least a year. You can pull it out after a year, but if it's less than five years, you'll give up just a few months worth of interest as a penalty. It's not anything that's going to diminish the overall rate of return to the point where it would no longer be attractive. It will still be a very, very good rate.

And the great part about this, Karen, is that it's ultimately very safe just because it's backed by the US government. So treasurydirect.gov is the place to go to purchase the electronic bonds. Does that clear it up for you? Yeah, and I have to do it online.

I can't, you know, make a call. That is correct. Unfortunately, you know, it used to be the case you could buy any number of US savings bonds through the local bank and in other ways to take the paper bonds.

That's not the case any longer. You have to buy them electronically, so you'd have to go set up that account at treasurydirect.gov, and then transfer the funds in electronically. We appreciate you checking in with us today. God bless you, Karen. 800-525-7000. We've got some lines open.

Let's see, to Holland, Michigan. Beth, you're next on the program. Go ahead.

Hi, Rob. Thanks for taking my call. My connection isn't great, so I don't know if you can hear me well or not. It sounds just fine. Yeah, no problem. Perfect. So my question is, based on my age and all of my good details, if I'm smart in stopping a Roth contribution to pay off a debt faster? Hmm, yeah.

Potentially. Let's just walk through it for a second. Give me a sense of what kind of debt you have that you're interested in paying off. Okay. So the debt that I have that I'm trying to pay off faster is a Discover personal loan. It's $19,000 at a 6.5%. I'm paying extra on it.

It's targeted to be paid off in January of 25. Okay. All right.

Very good. And do you have an emergency fund? I do. I have about two months' worth of an emergency fund, and the only other debt I have is my mortgage. That will be paid off in 20 years if it's paid at the rate of minimum, but I'm paying $200 extra on that. I'm 57. I'm hoping to retire when I'm 65, and I have a 401k that I contribute 5%.

There's a 4% company match. Nice. I have a... Yep. Yeah.

Were you going to say one other piece? Yeah. That balance is horrible year-to-date. It's come down quite a bit like everybody's is. Yeah. It's at $192,000.

I have another $40,000 in another diversified fund, and I had been contributing also 2% in a Roth, but I stopped that to pay that Discover off faster. Is that smart? Yeah.

Yeah. I like that a lot. In fact, I'd probably take that $200 a month you're sending to the mortgage and send that to the Discover as well, because I suspect that rate's quite a bit lower than the six and a half. Then once you get that knocked out, then I think continuing to pay toward paying down the mortgage. Ideally, we could have that paid off as close to retirement as possible. Then I like the idea of continuing to fund the Roth after you've paid this off alongside the 401k.

The only thing else I would offer is just make sure you're doing some planning between now and retirement to understand what your actual retirement budget will look like, what will your expenses be, and then match that to Social Security and a proper withdrawal rate from the 401k to make sure you have enough in the way of assets. Beth, thanks for your call. We'll be right back.

We'll be right back. So delighted to have you with us today on MoneyWise Live. We're taking your calls and questions today on anything financial. The number to call is 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. Why take an hour each afternoon here on Moody Radio to talk about money? Is it because, well, we want to build up bigger barns?

No. Is it because God needs our money? No, it all belongs to him. The reason is that, well, I believe money is really the training ground of the heart. You know, if we look at the Council of Scripture, we see that it really can be a competitor, perhaps even the chief competitor to lordship. You know, there's so much about how we use money that can derail us from God's best if it becomes an end as opposed to a means to an end. But when we put it in its proper role and recognize that God owns it all and we're stewards and money is a tool to accomplish God's purposes, well, it changes every financial decision.

It changes every spending decision because we realize that the way we're allocating God's money really tells a story about what's important to us and what we value. And we can go back to God's word and understand his heart as it relates to accumulation and giving and helping those on our path. And it all comes down to really a conversation with the Lord to say, Lord, what would you have me to do? How much is enough? What lifestyle have you called me to?

How much should I give away? As we wrestle through that and live in the tension, God does great work in our hearts, and that's what it's ultimately about. Well, we love to do that, explore that each afternoon with you as we tackle your financial questions and try to bring God's wisdom from the Bible to bear in each of these situations. All the lines full with some great ones coming up, so let's go right back to the phones. To Minnesota we go. Adele, thank you for your patience. Go right ahead.

Yes, thank you. I was wondering, what is a spiritual response to in a family to a daughter who has chosen to alienate herself from the family for seven years now? And by the world standard, she's okay. You know, she's successful. I mean, she has a good job, house, all of this stuff. But, you know, anyway, what is our response in terms of future estate planning with her?

We have another son and five grandchildren, and at this point we've divided a third to her, a third to the grandchildren, and a third to our son. But what's realistic? I mean, what's spiritual?

What's biblical with that? Yeah, yeah, very good. You know, I would go back, Adele, and I know this is a challenging situation, so I think the very first thing is to start on your knees, saying, Lord, what would you have me to do? But I would also go back to what we started with today in our conversation with Jean McMains, as she really tackled this. You know, she really gave us three questions to think about when it comes to an inheritance, and we'll talk about what the Bible says in a moment, but the first was, in giving this money and perhaps leaving an inheritance, what is it that I hope for this individual?

Number two, what can I anticipate or expect to happen as a result of it? And then what concerns do I have about what this inheritance might do, just given the current trajectory in life decisions that are being made by the child? If you were to step back and kind of honestly ask those questions and even being willing to deal with them soberly, how would you respond to that? Well, I would say, knowing from the past, is that she would pay off her house. You know, she would take care of her debt. She's used money wisely.

In terms of giving to others in that, I have no idea. Yeah, yeah. But you're not seeing her making really poor lifestyle decisions, or you don't think this would become a stumbling block even in her pursuit of the Lord? You know, honestly, I don't know what has been a stumbling block. You know, we've questioned, is there a mental health issue involved? But without that contact, you know, she will text her dad on Father's Day and say, Happy Father's Day, and she might reply to him if he would send something. You know, are you doing okay?

And she might say, yes. With me, there's nothing. And if we had something to hang our hat on, it would be different.

If I could say, you know, she's involved in drugs, or she makes poor choices in relationships. But at least up until seven years ago, there hasn't been a hint of that kind of thing. Yes. Well, you know, I think the key here is to recognize that ultimately, we want to pass wisdom before wealth. And what's most important is the spiritual legacy that's passed. And you can only do so much.

Ultimately, it's up to the individual responding to the Holy Spirit and seeing their need for a Savior. And beyond that, then the character capital, but the financial capital is clearly a part of this. One of the principles that Ron Blue, the author talks about in his book, Splitting Heirs, is that if we love our children equally, we will treat them uniquely. You know, I think often we approach this by saying, well, we just have to be equitable to everyone.

We've got to divide everything equally. And Ron is pulling out a principle here saying, maybe not, you know, I think we need to look at each person and what God is doing within their lives the best we can tell, and really come to these questions about what we hope for that individual and not only hope in their relationship with the Lord, but hope in their relationship with each of you, you know, your husband and yourself. What do we anticipate?

Do we have any concerns? And then just try to make the best decision you can prayerfully about whether being, you know, including this child in the inheritance makes sense. And then communicating that clearly up front.

And perhaps that's a way to demonstrate your love and what you hope for her moving forward. Or perhaps depending upon the situation, in some cases, you may decide not to, you may decide, you know what, we need to give this money away. And there's ministries or work that God's doing that's on our heart that we think, you know, really should be the recipient of this, these funds. You know, ultimately, you know, when we go back to Scripture, we see that we should pass wisdom, we should pass a spiritual inheritance. I don't think we have an obligation to pass financial inheritance, although there's nothing wrong with that.

So it's really, I think, a prayerful decision that you and your husband have to come to and recognize, Adele, it's not a once and done decision. It's a decision that can change over time as you continue to observe. You all are the steward of these resources. And ultimately, it's your last stewardship decision that you will make. And so as someone who will give an account to the Lord for the use of these funds, I think, you know, you all are the ones that really are in the best position to know, do we leave an inheritance? Is it equitable?

Meaning, do we try to divide it equally? And if there's a reason that we have a concern that this money may actually not draw them closer to the Lord, perhaps, you know, there's a pause there. And, you know, that may not be the direction you go. So unfortunately, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

Even when we look to Scripture, it's ultimately a discernment issue that you and your husband have to pray through and come to a conclusion on. Does that make sense? Excellent. Yes, that makes perfect sense, because we've just thought of it as money to give away. And, you know, I know my parents gave all of theirs away to a Christian university for a music program. And it was wonderful because we still are getting feedback from students who are getting those scholarships every year saying, thank you, you know, this has helped me do this, this and this. And sometimes I think that it's a whole lot easier.

Yes, ma'am. Well, you guys make this a matter of prayer and see where the Lord leads. You know, our friend Michael Blue says about this passage that we discussed today about leaving an inheritance.

He says, I think a proper understanding of this verse is that a good and righteous person ought to instill character and righteousness in their children, which will be passed on for generations and will be an inheritance that will draw them towards God. And that's even more important than the finances. We'll be right back on Money Wise Live. Stay with us. Thrilled to have you with us today on Money Wise Live. I'm Rob West, your host. Let's head right back to the phones.

Indianapolis, Indiana. David, thanks for your patience. Go right ahead.

Hey, Rob. Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Really appreciate the program and everything you do for everybody. Thank you. I had a question.

No problem. I had a question. My mom and dad recently inherited some money and wanted to give 10,000 of it to my wife and I to start a college fund or some sort of a savings plan for my two young children. And so listening to some of your words of advice on the program, I sought out a CKA and I talked, spoke with him and had some good advice. And I had originally wanted to do a 529 college savings, but he advised that maybe it'd be best that we do kind of two separate Roth IRAs instead, just in case the kids didn't go to school or couldn't use the money for school.

But then here recently, I've heard you talk a lot about the I bonds too, and there's the $10,000 maximum and that's what we got, you know, total. So I thought maybe that would be a good route for it. So I just wanted some advice there. Yeah. What are the age of the kids?

So my son is three and my daughter is six. Okay. Yeah.

So you got quite a bit of time. I mean, the nice thing about the I bonds is that, you know, you would be able to get this great rate of return for, you know, probably the next year for sure, at some point, it will begin to revert back down to a lower amount. So, you know, I think longer term, it doesn't give you quite as much upside, especially given where the market's at right now.

Because, you know, you are not be able to take advantage of, you know, these market that's, you know, currently under some quite a bit of pressure. So, you know, we've you could be dollar cost averaging into the market here at these, you know, low levels, even though it certainly could go lower from here, you know, I think we will recover as we move into next year. So I like taking a longer term approach to this given the age of the kids. And if you really think this money is earmarked for college, then you're going to get a little more flexibility with the 529. I mean, with the Roth, the annual contribution is a little lower, obviously, you've got to have earned income in order to, you know, be able to put this in for the kids, you could use, you know, your own Roth, but that's going to give, you know, cut into your own retirement funds. And, you know, financial aid may not be a consideration, but if it is, that's going to impact you as well. So the 529 gives you a little more flexibility, both from financial aid in terms of the, there's really no limit to the amount you can put in. And if you, you know, use a website like savingforcollege.com to pick a really good 529 with great historical performance, you can really get some great investments inside these plans to be able to use for college. And you can pull it out on a pro rata basis for grants and scholarships.

The Roth is certainly an option, you know, to save for college, but, you know, my preference is the 529 college savings. Okay, okay, great. Well, that's kind of, kind of exactly what I wanted to hear. So I appreciate it. All right, very good. Well, I appreciate you checking in with us, David. All the best to you and those little ones. And, again, that website is savingforcollege.com.

I'd run through the tutorial there and get them to recommend at least the top three plans that would work for you. And if we can help you along the way, let us know. Thanks for calling.

To Lake Villa, Illinois, WMBI. Pam, thanks for calling. Go ahead.

Hi, Rob. Yes, so I have a question. I've been listening for a couple years now, but my question is I have a credit card that's like 12.83%. And I took out a HELIC account to help my daughter play for college and to do some home repairs, which last week it was something low 5%, but it is a variable rate. So my question is I know I should be paying off the higher interest rate credit card, but the problem is it keeps getting used. Like, you know, we'll use it for an Amazon purchase or books or anything that's online, the toll system, right?

The toll system is an automatic charge on there. So I'm I feel like I should be doing that, but it's just the balance just never really seems to move. So I overpay on both both.

But should I be focusing like doing minimum payments on one and really shoving stuff towards another? Because I just again, I have been close to like three thousand. It's like eight thousand. I've been down to the three thousand mark twice in our married life. But then stuff happens and it gets used and it's being used on a monthly basis. And the balance just never seems to go anywhere. Yeah, that's my question.

Which one should I really be focusing on? Sure. And let me just ask you a question. Do you have any emergency savings, Pam, that you've built up? Yes, we do. We have a minimum of twenty thousand. It's a separate account that we just have money put over there and we try not to use it except like, you know, for emergencies or like if we need new tires or something.

But it's not touched. Yeah. And how many months worth of expenses is that? What do you all spend on a monthly basis? It would I think it's it's about six months. Okay.

All right. And so what if what if you were and I would only do this if you've really dialed into your budget and part of what you said about the credit card gives me some concerns that maybe you're not really living on a budget because in reality, as long as you were using that credit card moving forward for only budgeted items, the money should be there to pay for any new charges and then any surplus that's built into the budget, meaning that which less is left over after all the fixed and discretionary spending then could be applied to the credit card. And no matter what you charged in a given month, as long as it was a budgeted item, therefore the money is there. It's a planned expense.

It should never climb. It should always be coming down by the amount of surplus that you applied to that principal balance, because that plus the budgeted items should cause this to only go one direction and that's down. But if if you're using it for things that aren't in the budget, you don't have a kind of a well thought out spending plan and controlling the flow of money in and out. And I realize, you know, things can happen, but that's where the emergency reserves comes in and everything else should be a part of your plan spending. You know, then that should take care of itself. And if that was the case, then I would say, well, what about taking a portion of your emergency fund, perhaps dropping it from, you know, six months to three months, wiping out the credit cards and then taking, you know, 100 percent of what you were sending to the credit card plus the, you know, the excess you have and then either building that back up or splitting it between building that back up and paying down this HELOC even more aggressively.

Give me your thoughts on all that. Yes, I do. I always overpay. So I do try to make sure that I'm always pay what I what has been spent on that card for that month in addition to and I do pay twice a month every pay period. But again, you know, there's two adults in the house right using that credit card.

So no, you're correct. We don't have a budget per se, but I always I try to pay a thousand per month on each card. But and I and I could be off a little bit. Maybe it comes down, but not as much as I feel like it should, because there might be two, three, four or five hundred dollars put on it every month.

And then if I'm paying a thousand, it just doesn't seem to really go anywhere. So but I have also thought that I discussed it with my husband. What if we were to take money out of that emergency account and pay it down? And he didn't seem to really like that idea. So we have very different thoughts on money. So but I can't do anything without his OK. Of course. Yeah.

And I certainly wouldn't advocate for that. I want you all to be on the same page here. So I think and I'm not opposed to that, especially given some of what you're describing. You know, I think, you know, freezing this account and whether you use another account for your expenses moving forward or a debit card, that's one option where you really just kind of separate this as debt we're trying to pay off if you keep them together. I think really the key is you all perhaps coming together once a week with a money date saying, hey, first step is we've got to create a spending plan and we've got to capture everything, all the things we get a bill for, all the discretionary items, the semiannual things. We've got to get it in there and we've got to make sure that it balances. And we've got enough income with some margin left over. And if we've got to do some hard work to dial back some spending, we're going to do it. And then is, you know, everything that goes on that card should be in that budget.

And therefore, it's not just I'm sending a thousand a month. I'm actually paying those expenses the exact amount of the new charges. And then whatever margin is left over, surplus gets applied back to that card as principal reduction.

I would focus all of your energies there. Both the HELOC and the credit card are variable rates. They're both going to continue to head higher with interest rates. Credit card will accelerate even quicker. And so that really is the best bang for your buck, so to speak, in terms of getting that paid off as soon as you can. But doing it with the spending plan is critical. And you all being on the same page and developing that spending plan together, including the control systems to control the flow of money in and out is really critical here, Pam.

So I would focus your energy on the credit card, but I would also encourage you to really engage your husband around a conversation, not finger pointing, but just how can we move together toward what God has for us around a spending plan that we all agree to, that's fully representative of both of you and where you feel like God is heading you as a family. Does that make sense? It does, absolutely. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thanks for your call today. God bless you. Hey, quickly to Tampa. Lily, you're going to be our last caller today.

How can I help? Hi. So I have a question in regards to I-bonds. Yes. I want to buy some I-bonds for my daughter. I have the 529, but she is 15, so she's almost like three years for college. So I don't want to put more money in the 529 instead I want to buy I-bonds.

Sure. What are your recommendations in regard to that? Yeah, so you would open an account. You could create a custodial account in her name that she would have access to at 18. Make sure that you aren't going to qualify for financial aid because this would be treated as her asset, which will penalize you. But apart from that, you can absolutely do that. You've just got to hold it for a year and you'll get a great rate of return.

You can take advantage of that and open one of these accounts at treasurydirect.gov. Lily, thanks for your call. MoneyWise Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and MoneyWise Media. My amazing team today, Luke, Ryan, Gabby, Amy, and Jim. Couldn't do it without them. Thanks for being here as well. Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.