God as Investor

Today's version of MoneyWise Live is prerecorded, so our phone lines are not open. We're used to thinking about God as Creator, Savior, King, Shepherd, and Judge. But have you ever thought about God as an investor? Hi, I'm Rob West. It's true, God has another role to play in your life, and I'm excited that we'll be talking about it today with investing professional Jason Meyer.

Then we have some great calls lined up, but please don't call in today because we're prerecorded. This is MoneyWise Live, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, joining us again today is Jason Meyer, my good friend and executive director of the Eventide Center for Faith and Investing, an educational initiative of Eventide Asset Management and an underwriter of MoneyWise. Jason, well, welcome back to the program. Hey, Rob.

It's Tracy with you again. Jason, I'm excited about our topic today. It's an intriguing one for sure, and that's thinking about God as an investor.

Set this up for us. Well, you know, one of the unique things about Scripture is that it gives us all of these different ways to think about God. So consider with me some of these. So God as our Father, God as Creator, God as Redeemer or Savior, God as King, God as Judge, God as Physician, God as Shepherd, and we could go on and on. But there's one metaphor for thinking about God that I'm sure almost none of us have ever considered, and that is thinking about God as investor, God as investor. And as strange as that might sound, I want to submit to you that it's a biblical way of thinking about God and one that actually sheds unique light on God's work in creation and redemption. And even more than that, it sheds light, I think, on our work as investors today.

All right, well, you certainly have me intrigued. So where in the Bible do we see God as an investor? In order for us to see it in the Bible, we first have to understand what investing originally meant. So today, we tend to understand investing as, you know, investing our money into companies in order to get hopefully a good financial return. But investing originally had a very different meaning and one that I think is much more profound. Investing originally meant the following, listen carefully, to close someone in the official robes of an office.

Let me say that again. To close someone in the official robes of an office. That's what investing originally meant. That is interesting. I don't know that I've ever heard that before.

Yeah, I hadn't either until someone pointed it out to me. So before maybe jumping into the Bible, let me just, since it's so unusual, let me take a moment and just expound on the definition of that. So yeah, first, we see clothing, and investing was related to clothing. And we still have some remnants of this connection today. So if you think about, let's say, a very formal church, the pastor or priest may wear a robe, and that robe is actually called a vestment. So vestment, investing, clothing, you can see the connection there. Or you can think about a three piece suit, a very formal suit, you have the pants, the jacket, and the what, what's the third piece, it's a vest. So vest, investing, clothing, there's still this clothing connection.

So clothing is important. Second, investing was to clothe someone else, not to put clothes on yourself, but to clothe someone else. And thirdly, it was specifically work clothing, it was to clothe someone with the official robes of an office for a job, it was work clothing. But don't think here about the lowly work uniform, we're talking about very dignified clothing robes, that signify highly important work. You know, Queen Elizabeth II recently passed away, think about her robes, robes that signified authority and power related to her office as Queen, that's the idea here. So investing originally meant to clothe someone in the official robes of an office.

And as it turns out, this is exactly what we see God doing when he creates humanity in his image. He invests in us in this sense. He clothes us for very specific work. In fact, we can see two kinds of clothes that he gives us for two kinds of work. This is fascinating, Jason, I'm really intrigued.

And just around the corner, we'll unpack this a bit. What are those two kinds of clothes? And what about the two kinds of work? And how does this responsibility even relate to the fall and redemption? Jason Meyer with us today to talk about God as an investor. He's Executive Director of the Eventide Center for Faith and Investing, an education initiative of Eventide Asset Management. Today's program is prerecorded, so keep that in mind when you hear phone numbers. We're going to pause for a brief break now, but Rob West will be back in a moment with more MoneyWise Live. Great to have you with us today on MoneyWise Live.

I'm Rob West, your host. Joining me today, my good friend and Executive Director of the Eventide Center for Faith and Investing, Jason Meyer. We're talking today about a role of God, that is God as an investor.

That's right. You may not have heard God referred to in that way. And yet, Jason's making an interesting case. He just shared with us the original definition of investing, which meant to clothe someone in the official robes of an office. And he went on to say that we see God doing that when he creates humanity in his image. He invests in us and then clothes us for specific work. Jason, you mentioned two kinds of clothes for two kinds of work. So I'd love for you to share the two kinds of work clothes that God gives to humanity.

So the first is royal clothing. And we can see this in Genesis chapter one. There's a commissioning ceremony when God creates humanity in his image in Genesis one.

And the language there is royal language. So if you recall, God says, quote, let them rule, or quote, have dominion over the earth. And it goes on to say, and to subdue the earth.

This was the commissioning ceremony for humanity. So rule, dominion, subduing. This is royal language. And what this is describing is God commissioning Adam and Eve to be his vice regents, or under rulers serving as rulers over his creation. Now, in Psalm eight, we see King David picking up on this and reflecting on this commissioning ceremony in Genesis one, and listen to what he says, he says, quote, what is man that you were mindful of him, the son of man that you regard him, you've made him a little lower than the heavenly court. Now listen to this, and crowned him with glory and honor, and put all things beneath his feet, crowned him with glory and honor. This is royal language, depicting the robes of an office that God gives us. And when it says there that he put all things beneath the feet of humanity, this is a reference to a footstool used by a king or a queen again, royal language, God has closed us with royal clothing and granted us authority and power to rule over creation as his chosen representatives.

Now, if you're astonished by that, well, you're in good company. So was King David. He says, what is man that you were mindful of him, the son of man that you regard him, and so has been every theologian and believer who has ever reflected on what it means to be made in God's image. Part of the meaning of the image is that we were made to be royal stewards over God's beautiful and good creation. I love that. So we've been given an awesome responsibility.

All right, let's move on for the sake of time. What's the second kind of clothing God gives us? Right, so we've got the royal clothing.

The second is religious clothing. So in Ezekiel 28, we find a very fascinating reflection on Adam in the Garden of Eden. And what we learn there in that passage is that the Garden of Eden was no ordinary garden. It was actually God's dwelling place.

It was his holy mountain, his holy temple. And Adam is described there in this passage as the high priest in God's Garden of Eden temple. And what's fascinating about that passage is that it goes on in great detail to describe Adam's clothing. It talks about Adam wearing a gold breastplate with all of these inlaid precious stones lined up in rows.

So carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise, barrel. And that might seem really weird, unless you know your Old Testament. Because if you studied the temple of God in the Old Testament, you realize that what they're describing is the official robe of the high priest. The high priest wore a long robe, and there was a gold breastplate laid with rows of precious stones. And so, in addition to being kings and queens in creation, humanity was also made to be high priests to God, serving God, and mediating his divine blessings to the rest of creation. So God invests humanity with royal clothing, and religious clothing. And you may be thinking this, but this is why the Bible so often describes God's people as, quote, a royal priesthood. Yeah, or quote, a kingly and priestly people.

It's because God invested us with his image and gave us authority and power to serve him in both royal and religious ways. John Green Wow, that's powerful. So then how does, Jason, the fall and redemption play into this idea of investing? Jason Sure. And this is so cool.

You're gonna love this. So we know that God made humanity to be his royal priesthood. But almost as soon as the commissioning ceremonies were complete, we know that humanity fails and falls into sin, right?

But God in his infinite grace and mercy, invests in humanity yet again. So think about what happens after Adam and Eve sin. They become aware that they're naked and they try to sew fig leaves together to cover their nakedness.

You're already thinking clothing here. But what does God do? He gives Adam and Eve new clothing. Specifically, he gives them sacrificial clothing.

He covers them in the skins of animals, which was the first time that anything was killed in God's peaceful creation. God sacrifices in order to clothe the shame and guilt of Adam's and Eve's transgression. And this sacrificial clothing is, of course, a foreshadowing of the work of Jesus, who sacrificed his own life to cover the guilt of our sin. And the New Testament specifically talks about us being clothed in Christ. And we're instructed to take off the old clothes of the old sinful nature, and to put on the new clothes of righteousness in Christ. And so the promise of the Bible is that God's final sacrifice of Christ actually enables us to become the royal priesthood of God. Yet again, we see this promise in the New Testament, and even in the very end of the story at the end of the age in Revelation.

Isn't that just so beautiful? It really is. So Jason, then what's the takeaway for financial investing today? You mentioned at the beginning, it can really guide our investing.

How so? Yeah, so I think there is a significant takeaway for us as we reflect on financial investing today, even though this clothing metaphor is so foreign to us. Now, if you think about investing today, most investors are really thinking about what they get out of investing, which is the potential for positive financial returns, which is a good thing. But as we've been discussing, investing is really much more about clothing someone else for noble work. It's not about clothing ourselves, it's about clothing someone else. And with that clothing, empowering them to do good work in the world. And this original meaning of investing about clothing someone else, I think it can remind us of the fact that investing is really about supplying capital to support a business in order for them to be empowered to fulfill their work in the world. So when we invest our money, I think the way that we should think of it as clothing companies with capital. Wow. So that they are enabled to pursue their mission in the world. And if you think about it that way, not only does it sort of reverse the way that we think about investing, but it also gets us thinking about the companies we're investing in.

And we should be asking really what businesses are doing good work in the world that are worthy to be closed with this capital. I love it. Well, that's a lot to think about. Jason, thanks for sharing that with us today. Hey, my pleasure. Good talking to you, Rob.

You too, buddy. To learn more about faithful investing, check out the Eventide Center for Faith and Investing at faithandinvesting.com. That's faithandinvesting.com. Hey, before we go to our break, let me remind you that we're not live today, but we do have lots of good information coming your way, so please stay tuned. Thanks for joining us today on MoneyWise Live.

I'm Rob West, your host. We see in Luke 12 the parable of the rich fool, which concludes by talking about the fact that we should be rich toward God. He says to this rich fool, this is how it will be for anyone who stores up treasure for himself, but is not rich toward God. What does that mean? Well, I think it's managing our money in such a way that it's apparent that God is our ultimate joy and affection, not our things.

We've got to reorient our hearts and our minds toward how we handle God's resources so we can in fact not be rich toward the things of this world, but rich toward God, where He is the object of our affection. Well, that's what we try to do each day on this program. By the way, our team is away from the studio, so don't call in.

We did line up some great questions in advance, though, so you enjoy. Before we go to the phones, a quick email. This one came to us from John. He writes, I had a bankruptcy. I've been out of it for eight years. How do I get my credit back?

And you know, John, this is a challenging question. I think the good news is that with regard to credit reports, the most recent information impacts you the most. So a lay payment today is more significant than a bankruptcy even eight years ago. And so I think the key for you is to be an on-time payer. First, you're going to want to get that credit file, make sure everything's correct and monitor it. Then you want to, of course, make your payments on time.

The extent to which you can begin to reestablish credit is key and perhaps a secured credit card might be the thing for you, John. Essentially, you put an amount on deposit with a financial institution like a bank. They'll issue a secured credit card against it. Secured meaning that the amount that you charge is going to be limited to the amount on deposit. So they have no risk because if you don't make your payment or pay it back in a timely fashion, they have the ability to pull the collateral, which is the deposit and pay off the balance. You, though, have the ability to charge against that and perhaps use a budgeted item that's recurring, maybe just a small charge that would hit the account every month that you would then pay off in full, thereby paying no interest. But even more than that, by having that reported to the bureau would be reported as an on-time payer. That is a key idea for you to begin to reestablish yourself and demonstrate yourself to be trustworthy with regard to managing your financial affairs.

So here's the key. Make sure you're an on-time payer and I would keep all of your balances at zero. I would also say, you know, going back to that spending plan that we were talking about earlier on the program, John, is so key. And if you need some help with that, putting that plan in place, looking at your income, really helping to craft a budget that's going to work for your needs, our team would be happy to help you. We have volunteer coaches that would be delighted to come alongside you at no cost, help you get that plan set up, talk you through it, perhaps even with a fresh set of eyes, give you some new ideas on how you can manage God's money effectively. So if you head to our website, moneywise.org, you can click our community tab where you can post questions in our community, but you can also connect with one of our coaches there as well. And again, that may be just what you're looking for. John, thanks for your email.

By the way, if you have an email you'd like to send it to our team, perhaps to be read on the air, many of them are, or at the very least to be responded to personally by one of our coaches, you can send that along to us at questions at moneywise.org. It looks like we had a question that went away. I'm not sure if we're having a challenge with our phone system. But the question that just came in was related to spending plans and marriage when the couple is not on the same page. And, you know, I think that's so often a challenge. We hear from so many folks that say, you know what, in marriage, we just can't seem to agree on our spending plan. How do we proceed when we're on different pages about how much should we give and how much should we save and what's the right amount to be spending on our lifestyle? And I've got a hobby over here and you've got one over there. How do we come together?

And here's what I would say about that. You know, this is an area that I think God cares a lot about. His design is unity in marriage, and that includes every facet of our marriages, including our money. And so one of the very best ways, I think, to pursue that unity that is God's intention for us in marriage is to start on our knees together as husband and wife just to begin by praying, invite the Lord into your financial situation, ask him to be a part of your finances, and then do some planning even before you get to the budget, the actual spending plan. Begin to write down, perhaps separately and then together, what are our values? What's most important to us?

If money is a tool to accomplish God's purposes, how can we use it to accomplish where we believe the Lord is taking us? And as you begin to articulate those values, then the spending plan is actually just a reflection of your priorities. And then it can become the instrument of peace as you work together to say, you know, we have a priority to give. We have a priority to save. We want to prioritize being able to send our kids to college.

We want to build memories every year with a family vacation if we can. How do we order our finances in such a way that we limit spending so we can pursue these things that are really important and valuable to us? And how can we build in some perhaps fun money, if you will, for each of us to do the things we enjoy? Well, as you work together on that spending plan, and I know it gets allocated very quickly and you'll end up running to the end of it probably sooner than you hope to, it can be if you work together on it, that instrument of peace that brings you together, that reflects both of you, but more importantly, together as one flesh, everything that God is doing in your life and where you believe he's taking you. Give that a try. Start with prayer, talk about your values, and then build the plan accordingly.

And let's see if God doesn't do a work in that particular area of your life. Now, as I mentioned earlier, budgeting can be really key in marriage to make sure you're staying on the same page. The question is how do you do that? How do you create a spending plan? How do you have the tools to then stay on top of that and control the flow of money and do that together as husband and wife? Well, that's where the MoneyWise app comes in.

It's a wonderful resource. You and your spouse can both access the same account. You'll set up your spending plan using one of three approaches, depending on which works best for your money personalities. Once you create your plan, you'll connect it to your accounts, automatically get your transactions downloaded and make sure you stay on top of your budget, controlling the flow of money in and out.

Now you're on the same page. And when you meet for your money date each week or each month, you'll be able to pull it up, see exactly where you stand so you can make changes along the way. Download it today at our website, moneywise.org.

Just click app and we'll be right back. We're grateful you've joined us today for MoneyWise Live. This is God's wisdom for your financial decisions.

Applying the truth of God's word, 2350 verses dealing with money and possessions to the decisions and choices you're making today with God's money as a steward of his resources. We want to help you be found faithful. We want to do that together. Our team is away from the studio today, so don't call in. But we lined up some great questions in advance. So let's get right back to the phones.

Louisiana, Mike, thanks for your patience. Go right ahead, sir. Thank you.

I have a question. I'm 56, retiring because of the pension. If I would wait until January, I would lose over 100, roughly $20,000. So I'm retiring in November to get the most I can out of my pension. Okay, what should I do with that pension?

Roll it over into a IRA mutual fund, something that would not make a whole bunch of money but not lose a whole bunch neither? Yeah. Well, obviously, if you can maximize the value of that by retiring, that seems to make some sense. Just a question, though, before I weigh in, are you planning to continue to work and perhaps just go to work somewhere else? Yes, I have a business that I'm gonna just do full time. I see. Okay, very good. Yes.

Yeah. So this sounds like it makes sense. You can roll a pension into an IRA. You know, the benefit of that, Mike, is that as you said, you would not only maximize the value of that pension, that you're then able to roll over as a lump sum, but as soon as you get it into the IRA, you have complete control over how it's managed. You could leave it in cash, you could invest it in mutual funds or exchange traded funds, stocks or bonds, and you have control over who is managing it as well. You could choose to do that yourself, either on your own or with the assistance of a service like or a newsletter like Soundmind Investing, or you could hire an investment advisor, a money manager to actually take discretion as a fiduciary to make the buying and selling decisions of the investments based on your goals and objectives.

And you'd, of course, have the ability to determine who you hire, including not only their expertise and their ability to understand what you're trying to accomplish, but also their fee structure, which varies, you know, quite a bit. So I think that's a good option. I think the next step for you is to determine kind of how long you plan to continue to work. You said you own your own business. So the nice thing is, if you don't need this money anytime soon, you could roll it out and put it to work in a diversified portfolio that makes sense in light of your age, goals and objectives.

You know, the typical rule of thumb, which used to be 100 minus your age, we now raise it because people are living longer to 110 minus your age, you know, 56, that would be, you know, you'd probably want somewhere between 50 and 60% of that portfolio in stocks, and then maybe somewhere between 40 and 50% in bonds, if you want to try to keep it a little more stable, you know, while you're, you know, working for these next, let's say 10 years or so, and you may decide just to continue on working beyond 65 if you have good health, but I think that's really the next step for you beyond rolling it to the IRA, Mike is to decide how you want it managed. Would you like to turn this over to an advisor? Or did you have something else in mind? Well, yeah, I've talked to a couple people around here. And I'm just trying to get opinions from different people, you know, gather all this stuff up, and put it together and find out, figure out what I'm gonna do.

Yeah, very good. Well, let me recommend as one of those options, Mike, you head to our website MoneyWise.org, click the button that says find a CKA, which stands for Certified Kingdom Advisor. These are men and women who have significant experience, character and competence, pastor references, client references, but they've also been trained to bring a biblical worldview of money to bear in their financial advice.

I'd interview two or three of those folks to find out if one of those seems to be a good fit for you. But I think, you know, the Bible is very clear about the benefit of wise counsel. And if you were to approach this that way to say, All right, I've decided I'm going to retire, I'm going to pursue this business, I want to continue to work. But I want to be a good steward of the assets, which are significant that I built up to this point in the pension, and get that managed wisely with a long term perspective. I think you'll be happy that you did because, you know, you'll have some ups and downs for sure along the way. But, you know, a decade from now, I think this is going to be the very best way to overcome the effects of inflation and grow this portfolio in a way that's responsible and consistent with what you're trying to accomplish and having somebody that you can delegate that responsibility to that can execute the strategy, your strategy on your behalf, I think would be really worthwhile. Okay, great. That's MoneyWise.org and then click CKA.

Yeah, find a CKA, which stands for Certified Kingdom Advisor, you can do a zip code search, you'll get a list of CKAs in your area, and I'd interview two or three and find the one that's the best fit. Mike, we appreciate your call today. God bless you, sir. Let's talk for just a moment about our identity. Before we head back to the phones, you know, your identity answers this question, Who are you? This is a hot issue right now in our culture because it seems like there's a lot of confusion about what determines your identity.

But as believers, our true identity is in Christ. Now, I want to look, though, for a second at what happens when we let money define us and explain why this perspective is really nothing more than a trap. You know, first, we can either feel prideful or ashamed based on how much money we have.

We assume, even as believers many times, that wealth means success and therefore a lack of money means failure. We tend to look down on those who have less and we envy those who have more. Second, when our identity is in money, we compare ourselves to others. The end result is that we become discontented with who we are and what we have.

If money is who you are, well, it's never enough. And then third, here's my other observation that when we let money define us, we think our personal value comes from what we do. We begin to believe that our identity is found in our work or our income or our spending choices. You know, those are some of the ways that I've observed over a long time of doing this that can happen when we put our identity in money.

And this kind of thinking is really a trap for two reasons. First of all, it's a backwards perspective because it looks at a person from the outside in. This worldview says your success as a person is based on the externals, how you look, what you own, what you choose, how you perform. Well, that's superficial and ultimately meaningless. The Christian's identity is based on the internals, Jesus Christ, the Son of God living in us, the Holy Spirit. Second, an identity based on money is frankly unsatisfying because financial circumstances, they change. You feel good about yourself when you've got money and bad when you don't. And it's a mistake to pin your identity to something so uncertain.

But here's the reality. Christians can avoid the trap of using external things like money to determine our identity by remembering that our true identity is in Christ. No need for pride or shame or comparisons. We are all sinners saved by grace, resting in Christ alone who does not change. Let me take you to Galatians 3.28 as I wrap up this thought. It reads, so in Christ Jesus, you are all children of God through faith. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male or female. You are all one in Christ Jesus. It doesn't matter what your job is or whether you just remodeled your kitchen, the size of your bank account.

Your identity is not about what you do or what you have. It's Jesus in you, your hope of glory. Stay with us. We'll be right back. This is our final segment of a broadcast we previously recorded. Thanks so much for being with us today, and we hope you'll stick around and enjoy the rest of today's program. Back to the phones we go. Mississippi, Ava, thank you for calling. You go right ahead.

Oh, well, thank you. Yes, I told the screener there that it's humbling for me to admit that I'm not really sure how my retirement plan is going. I'm 70. My husband's 75. We're both retired. We do have IRAs and we have the Roth IRAs. I have stock in the community bank that I retired from.

It's about $350,000, I think is the dollar figure that it's worth. And I'm not sure exactly what to do with that. And as I said, the dividend is not coming to me. And I believe I was told if I won the dividend, they would like take it, they would disperse it like it's an IRA disbursement.

Does that tell you? Well what type of account is that bank stock in? Is it just in a taxable account or is it in a retirement account? Well, it was our employee stock account. So we were accruing the stock, you know, as the years, you know, they'd buy stock for us. And so I worked there for 42 years and so I have quite a bit of the stock.

And now I'm just wondering what I should do. At some point I will have to start taking disbursements from it like the IRA is sort of what I understand, like it's 72 and a half or whatever the figure is now. Yes. Okay, very good. And this $350,000 you have in bank stock where you worked previously, Ava, how does that relate to your overall investable assets? What do you have outside of this account in investable assets? Well, I do have an IRA.

I think it's like $80,000 in it. And Roth IRA that I don't remember right now exactly what the Roth is. We've been taking some funds out of the Roth.

We actually took some money out of the IRA last year and paid the taxes on it just because the notion that the taxes are going to go up. Very good. Yeah, no, I would agree with that. Well, it sounds like, though, that this particular the bank stock portfolio you have is the majority of your investable assets. Is that right? Yeah. And it's in a single bank. Is that also correct? That is correct.

Yeah. And so that would be my first concern, Ava, is just that you're considered what's called highly concentrated. And I'd love for you to be much more diversified, because we have the largest portion of your investable assets at the risk of one company that's not only in one sector, the financial sector, but it's one particular company.

So if they have a bad quarter or a bad year, they miss their earnings. You know, we're putting a lot of faith in this company. Now, I realize you work there 30 years, you probably have some affinity to it. It may be very well run. It has performed well in the past.

But it's just it's high. It's risky when we're dependent upon one company as opposed to being more diversified. So I think what's probably happening here is this is was given to you inside of a retirement plan, and therefore the dividends are in that qualified plan as well. So that when you if you wanted to take them out as income, instead of reinvesting them, which is what's happening automatically, it would actually be a distribution, which then makes it taxable.

So that makes sense to me. The thing that I would, though, want to do is to say, okay, we've built up a significant amount of assets, perhaps, you know, as much as maybe approaching half a million dollars, now is time to consolidate this all into one place, perhaps inside that IRA plus the Roth, which you certainly would want to leave there, and then deploy an investment strategy that's more diversified so that you're not, you know, so highly concentrated and at the risk of the performance of one specific company, you can capture kind of the broad moves of the market, whether that's through, you know, still dividend paying stocks that are very high quality, or whether that's through, you know, a dividend paying stock strategy plus fixed income, meaning, you know, bonds, once the interest rates, you know, stop rising, we could deploy a fixed income strategy that adds even more income, but again, doesn't have you so focused on one particular company. And to do that, I would recommend, as we talked about with Mike a moment ago, having a professional advisor who really understands you all spends a lot of time asking a lot of questions, getting to know you, what are you trying to accomplish?

How much income need do you have? What's your risk tolerance, all of these things, and then based on his or her experience and understanding of the Council of Scripture can deploy a well thought out investment strategy that gets you a little more diversified, but still in line with what you're trying to accomplish? How does that sound, though? Well, that sounds like wise counsel. Well, that's at least something I would consider. I mean, I realize you've probably done well, and it may be hard to let go. And it doesn't mean you have to let go of all of it by any means. But I think you will be, you know, it's wise to think about diversifying. It's really applying what we read in Ecclesiastes, Ava, divide your portion to seven or to even eight, because we don't know what will happen on the earth. And I think, you know, that idea is this modern term of diversification that I think will serve you pretty well.

So unless you have somebody, a trusted advisor to go to, I'd recommend you head to our website MoneyWise.org, click find a CKA that stands for Certified Kingdom Advisor, look for a CKA there in Mississippi, or several of them that you and your husband could interview to find one that would be a good fit for you. It's not that you can't manage this on your own. I think the question is just do you want to in this season of life, you know, take that full responsibility on yourself?

Or would you rather have a trusted advisor that, you know, is really waking up every day thinking about managing this in a way that serves your best interest? And I think given the significant amount of money you've accrued over time, that makes a lot of sense to me. All right. Okay.

Okay. Thank you so much. You are welcome, Ava.

Thank you for calling. May God bless you and your husband during this wonderful season of your life. We appreciate it. A quick email that came to us from Jason and you know, this is a tough one. And I think, you know, reflects where so many folks are at.

Jason writes, I've been going through a struggle with God for a while. I'm a giver. I take care of my budgeting.

I'm not making progress on my debts, though. I tend to put others' needs before my own. I recognize all the money I have as God's, but I feel guilty about paying my student loans instead of helping the poor.

Rob, what is your advice? And Jason, first of all, let me just say that it sounds like you have the gift of giving. You know, as we think about the gifts that God entrusts to us, we read about many of those gifts in Scripture. I think one of those is some folks are even, you know, blessed more than others with the gift of giving.

It's just part of who they are. And I would say it's a portrayal or a reflection of an attribute of God, the ultimate giver that you have. And that's wonderful.

Let's celebrate that. But I think we need to put that in the context of the other ideas that we see in Scripture that should govern how we handle God's money, including the admonition that we need to honor our obligations. And so as you take on, in this case, debt, whether that's school loan debt or some other kind of debt, I think honoring that obligation is clearly found in Scripture. And there's nothing more spiritual about paying your debts or giving. You know, I think those are two things that are clearly supported by Scripture, in addition to providing for our families and saving for the future. So the question, Jason, is how do we honor all of these things that God has asked us to do and do it in a way that pleases him? And I think it's really about starting on your knees and saying, OK, first I'm going to honor my obligations because I need to make, as the Bible says, an absolute commitment to repay.

God's word says the wicked borrows and does not repay. It can't be any clearer than that. So that that's a non-negotiable. We need to provide for ourselves and our family. That means we need to live within our means and we need to do that with contentment. But here's the thing, Jason, as you begin to make progress toward honoring your obligation, which clearly the Lord has instructed us to do, and you get out of debt, you're ultimately going to have more money to give away.

So you can lean into that desire that God has given you to be found faithful in giving others, meeting the needs of the poor, identifying people on your path that perhaps are going unnoticed by others that you're seeing and you can bless. And so I would just say, let's go back to your finances and look at reining and spending and getting out of debt as a means to be able to do more giving. And perhaps that will give you a renewed excitement and energy and vision for getting out of debt as quickly as you can so that you have more ultimately to give away.

Think about this. There's really only four things we can do with money. There's the money we live on, the money we give, the money we owe, and the money we grow. Well, once we cap our lifestyle, then live is off the table other than just continuing to pay the bills we've agreed to in our spending plan. Once we get out of debt, owe is off the table.

Well, that just leaves grow and give. And once you've defined how much is enough for your accumulation long term, then the only thing left is giving. And we can continue to increase that over time. So let's get you out of debt. Let's cap your lifestyle. Let's decide how much is enough to save for the future.

And that's not something I can tell you. That's between you and the Lord. But once that's done, then the only one that continues to grow as God provides is the giving.

And then you can really have some fun seeing what God has for you, identifying those opportunities and giving as he leads. Jason, thanks for that question today. I hope this was an encouragement to you. Folks, if you have a question, you can send it along to us at questions at moneywise.org.

Well, folks, that's going to do it for us today. So thankful that you stopped by as we together in community try to find God's heart for managing his money. You know, when we think about our role as steward, it's a high calling. We're money managers for the King of Kings.

Well, doesn't get any bigger than that. So we want to be found faithful and we want to go back to his word. So we understand how to go about that. Well, our team is essential to what we do here every day. So let me give them some thanks. I want to say thank you to Amy and to Courtney and to Melody and to Jim, the team serving us today, doing an amazing job, pushing buttons and serving you as you call in and doing all the things that makes this show possible.

MoneyWise Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and MoneyWise Media. That's going to do it for us, but I hope you'll come back and join us next time. We'll do it all over the world. And in the meantime, may God bless you. Bye bye.