When Helping Hurts

But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? 1 John 3 17. Hi, I'm Rob West. Christians are called to help the poor and studies consistently show that we're generous people compared to the whole.

But does that generosity always mean we're helping? I'll talk with Brian Fickert today about that. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, our guest today is Brian Fickert, professor of economics and community development and the founder and president of the Chalmers Center for Economic Development at Covenant College. He's also co-author of the best selling book, When Helping Hurts, How to Alleviate Poverty Without Hurting the Poor and Yourself. Brian, great to have you on the program today.

It's great to be with you today, Rob. Brian, it's pretty obvious that money alone doesn't solve the problem of poverty. It's certainly more complex than that. So how do we need to change our thinking about poverty?

You know, it really comes down to this. What is a human being? And many of us think of the human being as fundamentally a physical creature. And so we think we pour even more resources, the person will be better off. And then many of us as Christians think of a person as kind of a body that contains a soul.

Yes, we just pour in resources to kind of give people their best life now. But what the Bible actually teaches is that the human being is a highly integrated body, soul, relational creature. We are hardwired for relationships with God, with ourselves, with others, and with the rest of creation. And once we think of people as these highly integrated body, soul, relational things, suddenly we realize that we're going to have to work with people in highly relational ways, because that's how they're wired.

Oh, wow, I love that. It's a whole different paradigm. And yet, it does have profound implications for how we help those who are hurting. Well, Brian, one chapter in your book says that not all poverty is created equal.

Let's talk about that. Are there actually different kinds of poverty? Certainly, you know, when we see a person who's homeless standing on the street corner, we see a person who's lacking in adequate food and clothing and shelter. But then imagine a person who's in Indonesia after the tsunami. That person's also experiencing a lack of food, clothing, and shelter.

But I think we know the underlying conditions in those two situations are completely different. We have to diagnose where the underlying cause is contributing to that manifestation of a lack of things. And so what we want to do is distinguish between people who need relief, or rehab, or development. Relief is appropriate intervention if there's a crisis, if the person is completely unable to help themselves.

And so after tsunami, relief is the right intervention. But once the bleeding is stopped, so to speak, once the person is able to contribute to their own betterment, we then want to work in a more rehabilitative kind of way, walking with them. We want to move away from doing things to people and for people, and to start doing things with people, asking them to use their gifts and their abilities to improve their own situations. And we want to do that not because we're stingy or uptight, but because we want to restore them as image bearers, as people who live in right relationship with creation.

That means storing their own gifts and resources. And so we move away from just handouts to a rehab approach where we're walking with them. And then the final stage is development, which is really helping people to move well beyond any conditions they've ever experienced before.

And that's a very long term process in which both they and we grow more and more into the image of Christ. Oh, that's so helpful. And I love those categories, because that will really inform then how we respond in each of these situations. We'll get into some practical examples of that just around the corner, right about 45 seconds until our first break. Talk to us about economic development and its relationship to poverty. Specifically, we tend to think that's always the solution.

Is that the case? Well, economic development is part of the story, we want to restore people get as image bearers, people who can use their own gifts, to work and to enjoy the fruits of that work and then to share with others. And so economic development is just that helping people to be able to work, but we want to avoid the story of economic development in Western civilization. That story is a story of the American dream of earning more to consume more.

It's a highly self centered, highly individualistic story that's not doing any of us any good. We'll continue to unpack that just around the corner and also some practical help for you as you serve those in need. Following this interview, your questions today at 800-525-7000. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Delighted to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live.

I'm Rob West. Joining me today, Brian Fickert, professor of economics and community development and the founder and president of the Chalmers Center for Economic Development at Covenant College. We're talking today about his best selling book, When Helping Hurts, how to alleviate poverty without hurting the poor and yourself. Brian, before the break, you were really helping us understand the different approaches to helping those in need, whether that's relief or rehab or development. I'd love for you as we talk about this idea of when helping hurts to give us an example or two when perhaps without even knowing it, we can actually hurt more than help through our giving. Well, an example that many of us are familiar with is that homeless person standing on the street corner.

We can reach into our pocket and pull out a quarter and put that quarter in that person's hand. But I think deep down we know that all we've really done is enable that person to continue in that situation. And so we want to be compassionate.

We want to pour ourselves out on behalf of the hungry. But sometimes simply treating symptoms rather than the underlying causes can do a lot of harm. And that's often what happens working with homeless people. We've got to use a more relational approach, because the fact that they're standing there is rooted in something deeper, some broken relationship with God, self, others, or creation.

We've got to get the underlying conditions and stop treating the symptoms. So what would be an example of how to actually turn that situation to a positive where God can work? How would you advise that person who genuinely wants to help the person they're encountering on the street? Yeah, that particular instance is a very hard one, because typically people who are homeless are dealing with deep brokenness in their relationships with others. And that often is characterized by a high degree of mistrust.

And so it takes a lot of time to get to know the person and for them to start to trust you. Some experts in homelessness would say you need 70 to 80 touches. That means conversations with a homeless person before you can even get to the point where you can start to think about positive changes. And so that's a very hard one. Let's think of a different one. Imagine a woman walks into your church asking for help with her electric bill.

Would you know that that lack of ability to pay the electric bill is a symptom of something deeper? So what you want to do is change the conversation away from simply providing something to her into a direction that says, what are your gifts? What are your abilities? How can we help you use your gifts and your abilities to achieve your goals? What obstacles are you facing in achieving those goals? How can we come alongside of you and help you get over those obstacles that you can be more of who God has created you to be? And so it's moving away from a transaction to a long term relationship, because God is a relational God, and he uses relationships to restore us to all that it means to be image bearers.

That's powerful. Let's think of an example, Brian, a little further away from home. Obviously, many of us want to be able to help in remote places and third world countries. You know, we get to Christmastime the catalogs from a lot of different organizations where we could perhaps send a goat or an animal or something else that might be life-giving or even provide some ongoing financial support for this person if they can, you know, have eggs to sell.

Does that work? And what other considerations might we bring into play as we think about helping those much further away? Yeah, that's a great question.

Well, not all Christmas catalogs are created equal. But basically, we want to help people to build their assets, build their own gifts and their own resources. And so things like goats or other kinds of things that build income-generating assets can be a really great way to help people.

Chickens can be a great way. People view the goats and the chickens as assets that can generate income, and so that can be an approach. Another approach is something called microfinance, which provides essentially banking services for very poor people so they can save and borrow money to increase their ability to start small businesses, to put their kids in school, to pay for emergencies. And so there's ways to build local capacity, local assets that are very empowering. So we should be looking for those things, not just things that are constantly just giving handouts of consumer items. Yeah, I love the microfinance idea. For those listening today, Brian, that have a bit more surplus, maybe God's given them an abundance and they want to learn more about how to do that. Any resources you might point them to to learn about these opportunities that are really working and meeting needs? Well, at the risk of sounding like a commercial, the Chalmers Center's website is full of resources to help your listeners to steward their financial resources, both at home and abroad. That's great. Give the URL.

We'll give it at least one more time before we're done. Where can they go? It's just www.chalmers.org. There's plenty of resources there, books, courses, curricula, to help you minister more effectively, both at home and abroad. Brian, a lot of folks think of the short term mission trips that are going on, especially this summer with a lot of churches around the country.

Anything we need to know there about making that something that really is helpful? Well, we actually have a book called Helping Without a Hurting in Short-Term Missions because we actually believe short-term trips can do a lot of harm. We often perpetuate the very things that we criticize the federal government for. We rush in, we hurl around resources, and then we leave. We think that's a small thing, but our trip is just one of a series of trips. It really waves and waves of short-term trips that often dispense resources in ways that further mar the identity of the poor. Many poor people around the world have a sense of shame, a sense of incapacity, a sense that they can't affect change in their environments. We exacerbate those feelings by rushing in, taking over, and hurling out resources.

We've got to use a different approach. There is a role for short-term trips, but it's typically a backstage role. It's typically supporting and encouraging the organizations that are there over the long haul.

They're the primary manifestation of Jesus Christ in those communities. I love that. Perhaps you want to check out this resource at the Chalmers Center for how you can point your church in the right direction on how to use short-term missions effectively.

Brian, just a minute and a half left. I love stories. Perhaps you can finish with an example or a success story of the right kind of help. I'd love to share a story from Togo. Togo is a very small country in West Africa, and Togo is one of the poorest countries in the entire world.

It's actually the center of witchcraft and voodoo. We were working with a very, very, very poor church there in a very rural part of Togo. There was about an hour drive off of the paved road, and we said to that local church, how could you use your own gifts, your own resources to be what God has called you to be, the body and bride and fullness of Jesus Christ in that community? And so they decided to repair the road.

The road was full of potholes from the range. They went out and started to repair the road. Pretty soon the whole community came out and said, what are you doing here? And they said, we serve a king who'd like us to take care of his world. Our God is the owner of everything, and he wants us to steward his resources.

So we're repairing the road to take care of his world. The whole community came out and joined them. There was a witch doctor from a neighboring village who saw what was happening. He said to that church, I will give you land if you will plant a church like this one in my village, because I want my village to serve the same God that you serve. Wow, that's incredible.

Man, what a powerful example. Well, Brian, we've just scratched the surface. Will you come back sometime and join us again? I would love that, Rob. Thank you so much. Thanks for being with us. That was Brian Ficker today with the Chalmers Center and the author of the book When Helping Hurts. If you'd like to learn more about the great work of Brian and his team at the Chalmers Center, you can go to Chalmers.org. That's C-H-A-L-M-E-R-S dot O-R-G. Your calls are next, 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. Back with much more just around the corner. Stick around. Great to have you with us today on faith and finance. I'm Rob West, your host. It's time to take your calls and questions today on anything financial.

800-525-7000 is the number to call. We'd love to hear from you. Let's begin today in Missouri. Hi, Kathleen. You'll be our first caller. Go ahead.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I have two, I have two IRA CDs coming due, 7623. And I want to know, do I have to transfer them into another IRA CD? You do not. So is it at your bank? Is that where the, is that the custodian?

BMO. No, it's an online thing. Okay. All right. But there's definitely was invested in the CD, correct? Correct. Okay.

Yeah. So you have an option. It stays inside the IRA and you can choose any investment you want. So if you wanted to roll that over into another CD, you could certainly do that. If you wanted to move it into something else, whether it's money market or even stocks and bonds, you'd have that option as well. The only thing you need to be aware of is whether or not there's an automatic renewal on that CD. Some of them will have those automatic renewals. So if you planned to do something different than rolling it over into another CD, I would let them know that you want it moved out of the CD into the money market. And they'll have one available inside the account. And then you could redeploy those assets into whatever other investments you choose. So it has to be in the same bank within, I don't get it. No. It has to be in, I don't get it.

Yeah. So it has to stay inside the IRA. That could be at the institution you're with now, or it could be somewhere else. If you wanted to move it, you could open an IRA wherever you want it, Fidelity or Schwab or any mutual fund company or brokerage firm. And then you would just transfer the assets from the existing IRA. Once that CD comes due, move it into the money market, and then you transfer the assets over to the new IRA at that point. So you would have to just choose, it really starts with what do you want to do with it from this point forward?

Do you want to go into another CD? Do you want to invest it? And then once you decide what investments you would like, you need to decide, do you want to deploy that with the current institution you're with? Or do you want to move it somewhere else?

You have the flexibility to do all of that. I want to move it to the highest interest rate CD. But you're telling me it's got, if I move it to another institution, it's got to be like a Roth CD, an IRA CD.

I don't get that. Yeah. So the IRA is the type of account. And then there's the investments inside the account, whether that's a CD or a stock or a bond or a mutual fund, or a money market account. So you can have the money inside the IRA right where you're at, or you can move it to an IRA at another institution.

It doesn't matter where you where you house it. And then ultimately, it's a matter of choosing what's the next investment now that this CD is maturing. If you want to go back into another CD, then you would explore the various options that are available through the institution you're with. And they could tell you what options they have available in terms of rolling it over into a new CD. And that could be done there, or you can move it out to another IRA.

So it's got to stay inside an IRA, but you would choose the investments, including the another CD that you'd move the money into. Okay, thank you. Does that make sense?

I think so. Okay, very good. Thank you for calling today. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. We'd love to hear from you.

Let's head to Fort Myers. Hi, Eunice. Thank you for calling.

Go ahead. Hi, Eunice. Okay. Eunice, my apologies. Thank you for taking my call.

That's okay. My question is, I'm retiring in three years, and I will be enrolling over my retirement instead of taking my whole lump sum. And I would like to know what is the best thing to do. Now, I had a meeting, like a Zoom meeting with a financial representative from a company called Dragon Financial Services. And I am debating if this is the right way to go. And also, he was telling me that I could start adding money towards my mortgage, like $200 extra. And also, he said to start saving for emergency funds, and this is before retirement. And he said to try, you know, with whatever money I have left, I could go ahead and pay my house off, which that's what I really would like to do.

And he also said about buying a used car instead of buying a brand new car. Okay. Because I will be probably needing another car. And I also have a Roth IRA that I'm contributing to. I'll be putting like $90 a month. Okay.

And so far, I have $2,742. Okay. So, I just want to know what is your advice.

Yeah. Well, I don't know anything about Dragon Financial. I do like the direction he's been describing that you might head. I like the idea of you having an emergency fund. I love the idea of you being debt-free as soon as you can, as long as it doesn't take too much of your liquid assets. And I like the idea of you putting money into a Roth IRA.

Those are all good things. In terms of the assets that you have heading into retirement, what do you have available? I know you have the roughly $2,000 IRA.

What else do you have? Okay. So, from my retirement, you know, when I retire in three years, they're gonna give me about $47,000, close to $50,000, most likely. So, I also would like to know if I should go ahead and, you know, just put half of it. Just put half of it and do half of it on another institution.

Like, I heard about gold, precious gold and precious metals, something like that, investment. Okay. What do you think about that? You got a lot of moving pieces here. Let's do this. We're gonna take a quick break. And then when we come back, we'll see if we can try to take all these moving parts that you just described and come up with a plan moving forward just based on everything I know today. So, you hold the line, Eunice, and then we'll come back and continue to talk.

800-525-7000 is the number to call. We've got some lines open. Give us a call. We'll be right back. Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West, your host.

Delighted you're along with us today. We have some lines open for your calls and questions today. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. Again, 800-525-7000.

Just before the break, we were talking to Eunice. She's about three years out from retirement based on her current plans. She's got about $50,000 in the DROP program.

That's the Florida retirement system. She's got about a $3,000 IRA. She's got about $1,500 in emergency savings. And she's just wondering how to position these assets as she thinks about retirement. She's talked to an advisor and he reinforced the idea of her getting out of debt completely, which would include about $1,000 left on a consolidation loan that she's been paying down and then $24,000 remaining on her home.

Eunice, this is really helpful information. Let me ask you, what are your monthly expenses, roughly? Do you have a good sense of what you spend on a monthly basis?

I would say about close to $1,000 or a little bit more than that. Yeah, let's say it's $2,000. I mean, what you'd ultimately like to have in emergency savings is a minimum of $6,000 in emergency savings. And right now you have about $1,500 total between the $900 and the $600 that you have in those two savings accounts.

So we really need about $4,500 more. Are you contributing to that IRA every month or was that just one time? No, every month. Every month until I guess until I retire and they said that then they will give me the money back. Now I don't know if I should reinvest that money or keep that money and use it for, you know, all the things that I may be needing.

Here's my best advice. What I'd like for you to do, how much are you putting into that, um, the Roth IRA every month right now? That will be $90 a month. 90 a month. So right now I have, yes, and right now I have $2,742.

Got it. And how much do you have left over in a typical month after your bills are paid? Well, right lately, um, about, I would say about $1,000. About $1,000 left over at the end of the month? Yes.

Okay. Here's what I would do. I would stop contributing to that Roth IRA for the moment and let's take that $90 plus whatever you have at the end of each month and let's try to really buckle down on your spending to get that up at least a thousand if not more. And then you'd have about 1100 a month going into your savings. Right now your savings is at 1500 and we want to get it to 6,000.

So, you know, five months from now you should be there if you really focus on it. And once you get to that total of 6,000 in emergency savings, which is three months worth of expenses, then at that point I want you to take everything that's available and let's start going after that mortgage. Because what I'd like for you to do is try to work long enough so that by the time you reach retirement, the mortgage is paid off, the consolidation loans paid off, you've got six months expenses in the bank and we didn't touch the drop. You didn't use any of it because I want that drop program retirement account to be fully available in retirement so you can use that to supplement your social security. And the good news is that if the mortgage is gone and the consolidation loan is gone and because you're living modestly, you should be able to live on, I would hope, you know, social security, you know, plus whatever you could generate from the retirement account. You know, typically we would say you would pull about 4% a year, which would be an extra couple of thousand dollars a year from your drop program. If you took the lump sum and you invested it and you pulled, you know, 4% a year, that would give you, you know, about $165 a month that you can add to your social security.

And hopefully with no debt, because now your house is paid off and your consolidation loans paid off and you've got that emergency fund for the unexpected. Now, you know, I would hope that you could balance the budget with the 165 a month from the drop and social security. Does that make sense? Yes. Thank you so much.

Okay. So just to recap, I would not pull anything out of the drop. I'd work as long as you can. I would focus right now on putting a hundred percent of your surplus toward your emergency savings until you get to 6,000. Then let's redirect all of that money to the mortgage so we can try to have that paid off by the time you retire, but not by pulling your retirement assets, but you're doing it out of current cash flow while you're still working. And then you're entering retirement debt free and you still have the full drop available to you.

And at that point, you know, when it makes sense, you could start taking social security. I hope that helps you, Eunice. God bless you. And thank you for calling us today. We appreciate you being on the program.

To St. Petersburg, Florida. Hi, Mark. Go ahead. Hey, I'm thinking about converting my garage into an efficiency apartment. And what do you think about that idea?

I like that a lot. I think the question is just, you know, number one, you know, you're going to need the permits in order to do that, just so you make sure that you do that in a way that is, you know, complies with the construction requirements and so forth. And then you're going to need to let your insurance company know that. I think the biggest issue is just do you have the money to do that or are you going to have to borrow? And then what could you reasonably expect to generate in the way of rental income? And you may need to talk to a real estate professional and certainly do some of your own research would be another option. But the idea would be to really have a good understanding of what this would bring and whether you could, you know, cover the debt service if you are in fact going to have to borrow in order to do this.

So give me a sense of that. Well, right now, efficiencies go between 800 and 900 a month. And we're going to be planning on putting an outside door.

So it'd be a stand alone. No, little apartment for them. My house is valued over 300,000 and I owe 120 on it. So I, you know, I have to borrow the 35 or 40,000. Okay, so would you do that as a second mortgage?

I think that's what, yeah, that'd probably be best. Okay, yeah. So what is the current interest rate on your first mortgage?

Two and a half percent. Okay, yeah, so you don't want to touch that. So yeah, I think the key is just make sure, you know, you do your homework first. So just make sure there's not any issues with regard to you being able, you know, to convert this into something that can be rented out. You shouldn't have any issue with that. Make sure you do it in terms of getting the proper permits. And in terms of the dwelling, you're going to want to check with the county and just make sure you've got all that or you could get a general contractor to handle all of that for you. And then it's just a matter of saying, okay, if I'm going to add 40,000 in debt, obviously interest rates are high right now, they're going to be even higher for a second mortgage or a home equity loan if that's the way you go, or line of credit since there's high interest rates now that would allow them to come down as rates come down.

Then it's just a matter of how long is it going to take for me to get it rented? Can I cover the debt service? And am I putting myself in a position where, you know, I could be putting my primary residence at risk if I can't make the mortgage payment? But if all that fits in line with your budget and it makes, you know, sense to you, then I'd say there's no problem with that. I think it's a great idea where you can take a, you know, a portion of your property and turn it into an income generating endeavor.

I like that a lot. I would just say don't rush into it. Both check out the the legal side, you know, from the county and the construction standpoint as well as the financial side just to make sure you're not placing a necessary burden on you financially. And then finally, once you do it, talk to your property and casualty insurance agent just to make sure you have the proper coverages.

I might look at getting an umbrella policy in addition to some other policies as well. We appreciate your call today, Mark. All the best to you as you explore this. We'll be right back on Faith and Finance Live.

Stay with us. Well, it's great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live, where we apply the wisdom from God's word to your financial decisions and choices. Hey, we have some lines open right now. We'd love to hear from you with whatever your financial question is today. 800-525-7000. Again, 800-525-7000 is the number to call. By the way, you can call that number 24-7. So if you're busy right now, maybe you're at work or in the car and you don't have the ability to call in, just call and leave us a message and we'll schedule you for a future broadcast. But if you are available now and you have a question, our team is standing by.

800-525-7000. You know, we hear from so many of you every week that are being impacted by the principles that we share on this program. The messages coming right out of God's word that we're able to impart to your financial decision making.

And it's always an encouragement. In fact, we love to celebrate the impact that you're experiencing as you apply God's truth. Listen to this listener testimony we received recently. So I started listening to Faith and Finance, all those other ones, like Larry Burkett and Howard Dayton years ago. Through that time, I've tried to be faithful in my finances getting out of debt. And so now I'm completely out of debt. My home is paid off. My car is paid off.

No credit card debt. I got a pretty decent emergency fund. So in case of emergencies or whatever, I've been reading Howard Dayton's book, Your Money Counts, and actually give it out to other people as well.

I love it. You know, as you apply God's wisdom, it doesn't mean you're going to be without financial challenges. But what it does mean is that we've taken an eternal perspective and applied it to whatever God has entrusted to us today. And He is going to use our financial journey in ways to grow us up and mature us in our faith if we allow Him to. But the big idea is to live focused on the life that is to come, the eternal perspective, not focused on the temporal, the here and now, but focused on that which truly lasts and matters. So we hold God's money loosely and we give generously. And when we do, we experience the joy and the freedom and the contentment you just heard described by that caller. By the way, as we head toward our year end here in the next couple of days, June the 30th at Faith and Finance, we would invite you to be a financial supporter of this ministry.

We can only do what we do because of your listener support. So if you would give a gift of any amount, we'd certainly be grateful. You can do that on our website, faithfi.com. That's faithfi.com. Just click the give button. And if you'd give before June the 30th, it would go a long way toward helping us finish our ministry year strong.

Faithfi.com is the place to go. All right, back to the phones today. Let's get to as many calls as we can between now and the end of the broadcast. We'll welcome Ray to the broadcast from Plantation. Go ahead.

Yes, Mr. West. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. Thanks for calling, Ray.

Okay. My mother passed away a couple months ago. We lost my father back in 2007. So the inheritance now or, you know, the property and the things that she owned are going to my sister and I from a will actually that was done in 1980. But it talks about the will be an equally divided. She has a condo, possessions and an annuity that I found out when I called the annuity, I was surprised that there's still money to be transferred. You know, I didn't know there was a beneficiary in the annuity. But anyway, there's there's monies available or monies in the annuity that will be also passed to my sister and I. The question is the taxes on inheritance. I was trying to read in the IRS code and of course, I got lost pretty quick in there. But it seems there's a like a maximum cap that is not taxed. Is that true?

Yes. So the proceeds from an inheritance are usually taxed. Ultimately, what you need to do is probably talk to a CPA who can understand, you know, what you're actually receiving in the form of an annuity contract. So you can understand that as that comes out, how that will ultimately be taxed, whether you take it as a lump sum or as you take if you take it out over time.

And a lot of that has to do with whether that is qualified or unqualified or non-qualified. Basically, did it go in pre-tax? And if so, it would be like you inheriting an IRA. As you pull that money out, you would pay tax income tax on it. If it's a non-qualified annuity, then you would only pay income taxes on the interest that's earned inside the annuity. So it's ultimately just up to how that was set up and they would have to look at the paperwork to determine what the taxation would be. There's not any inheritance tax. The estate would pay tax if the estate was greater than 12 million dollars currently, but you don't pay any taxes just by inheriting these assets. But if it's qualified money, meaning it went in pre-tax, whether it's an annuity or an IRA, then you would pay the tax on it as it comes out.

Does that make sense? Yes, it is going to be lump sum. They've already notified me that when I contacted them that it would be a lump sum distribution at this time as beneficiaries, my sister and I. Well, it's actually named in my name, but anyway, regardless, if we split this money, so the annuity, then the question becomes, like you said, whether it was pre-tax money, which I don't think it was, but still the interest that my mother accumulated during her time of owning the annuity may be taxed. Yeah, so you're going to need to check on that because if you receive the money as a lump sum, meaning all at once, then you would pay the taxes immediately. You know, if you take it over time, then the taxes are owed as it's cashed out as the money comes to you. So I would just check with your CPA.

You could provide the documentation on the annuity that you're inheriting and they can tell you exactly, you know, what you're dealing with and what you would need to be planning for in terms of the taxes. Okay. Yeah, it's definitely lump sum, but like you said, it's the issue of whether taxes have been paid on that money already by my mother. Right. That's whether it's qualified or not. That's the terminology. That's right.

You're exactly right. The second question I have is one now that in my will, and I don't have any children, I've always named my mother and my sister, which now, of course, with my mother passing, my sister's my only beneficiary of, you know, if I, if I precede her, if I die before her, um, which I don't mind for getting the money. My concern is whatever money she doesn't use that I give her when I sell my home and my, my financial situation, which thank God, it will be pretty good.

Um, how do I protect that? Kind of like giving her the money, but then trying to ensure that the money she doesn't use would be passed on to conservative Christian charities. Could there be something in the will that says that she inherits my money, but she has to have a will that States that would that be one way to address it?

Yeah. You know, as general as general rule, I wouldn't try to control the money in that way. Um, you know, I think you just need to decide how you want your assets distributed and then who is the next steward and are they not only chosen, but prepared.

And you know, if you're using a basic will, you would pass whatever the Lord has entrusted to you at your death, according to your wishes. And you could have a certain percentage or portion going to your sister. You could go ahead and determine, you know, where you want the rest of it to go in terms of ministry or charity.

Uh, but there's only three places you can leave money, the government, your, you know, your heirs or to ministry or charity. So I would make that decision on the front end and not try to control the money that's going to her. I would just leave that up to her.

If you decide you want to leave a portion of it to her to make that decision as the steward of those resources. Okay. And I, and I found out another complexity that I have to address on a four 57, which I had a government career on a four 57.

I found out something recently that you can't leave it to a, uh, a five one C three, but you have to, you can only leave those two individuals. Okay. Uh, so you have a four 57 retirement plan with, through the government. Correct. Okay.

Where most of my money is. Uh, right. And so you, you have designated a beneficiary. Yeah. And I did it erroneously, apparently on one of my four 57s that I named, uh, I named, um, like my church and some ministries, um, and five Oh one C threes. And they told me it has to be, it has to be a named person, an individual. Okay. Uh, yeah, I'm not aware of that.

That's interesting. Um, but if that's what they're telling you, that very well could be, uh, you know, typically with a retirement account or a financial and investment account, let's say you can name a non, uh, a charity as a beneficiary. Um, if you may not be able to, uh, with the four 57, I wasn't aware of that. So I think in order, you know, perhaps you, uh, just confirm that. And if that's the case, then basically, uh, what you would do is, um, you know, you could cover that in your estate through your will and, um, you know, just have that, uh, four 57 plan become a part of your estate. And then, uh, that would pass through probate according to the will, uh, to the designated, uh, you know, recipients, including a charity at that point in lieu of, uh, in lieu of naming a beneficiary, it would, it would pass through through the designation and the will. That's right.

So I would probably talk to an estate planning attorney, whoever's going to draft your will about that specifically and have that individual weigh in on the best way to go about that. Um, you know, just to make sure that you've done it correctly and your wishes are going to be honored at death. Right. Correct. Yeah. I have my will, like I said, but I just found out about the four 57 issue.

And of course with my mother passing away, things have kind of changed as far as where my monies would be going. Hmm. Okay. Yeah.

That makes sense. Well, yeah, that's one key, uh, idea is that, uh, you want to keep this updated and as your situation and circumstances change, uh, you want to update your will and, uh, estate planning accordingly so that, uh, you know, it reflects what your wishes are right now and that will change over time. So perhaps it's, uh, uh, and the ideas that you need to update that will accordingly, Ray, we appreciate your call today. Thanks very much for checking in with us today.

Brian, I apologize. We didn't get to your call today. If you'd like to stay on the line, we could get you scheduled for the broadcast tomorrow. I'd be delighted to chat with you folks. Let me say thanks to my team today. Amy, Gabby, uh, Dan and Robert couldn't do it without them.

Faith and finance live is a partnership between moody radio and faith. I have a great rest of your day and come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.