Watch Out for Tax Scams

The following program was prerecorded, so our phone lines are not open. Every year, the IRS collects about $4 trillion in taxes and gives out more than $1 trillion in refunds. That's a lot of money changing hands. Hi, I'm Rob West, and whenever there's a lot of cash to be had, well, that's when scam artists come out of the woodwork, and this tax season is no different. Today, I'll tell you what they're up to so you don't get taken.

We'll talk about that first today, then we'll have some great calls that we've lined up, but since this program is not live today, please hold your calls until we're back in the studio. This is Faith & Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Romans 13.1 is a good reminder of how Christians should deal with civil authority.

It reads, Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. And of course, being subject, too, includes paying taxes. We should always pay what we rightly owe, and we should rightly expect a refund when we've paid too much. Unfortunately, scammers don't see it that way and are always on the lookout for ways to separate you from your money at tax time. The easiest way to do that is with tax refund fraud. If scam artists get a hold of your social security number, they can file a false tax return and get your refund. Actually, they often get more than a legitimate refund by claiming low income and a lot of deductions. Later, when you file, the IRS kicks back your return and you're left with a mess to sort out. You can avoid this by getting an identity protection PIN from the IRS before filing. It's a six-digit number to verify your identity that only you and the IRS know.

You can sign up for a tax PIN number at IRS.gov. Another way con artists are using the tax system to defraud people is with fake charity scams. They set up fraudulent charities that lure good-hearted people into making donations. Donors may think they can claim those contributions on their tax returns, but when the IRS discovers a charity is fake, it could set you up for an audit. To prevent this, it's always a good idea to thoroughly check out any nonprofit organization you are thinking about donating to.

The Bible tells us we're to be wise as serpents. The IRS has set up a tax-exempt organization search tool so you can check out legitimate charities. You can find that at IRS.gov as well. You can also find legitimate charities at CharityNavigator.org, MinistryWatch.com, and with the National Christian Foundation at NCFgiving.com. Another way scam artists can get you at tax time is with so-called ghost tax preparers.

If that sounds scary, it should. This is when a scammer claims to be a legitimate tax professional. They usually make extravagant claims about how they can get you a big refund and people fall for it. They may file a fraudulent return and have the refund check go to them instead of the taxpayer, or they'll just charge a big fee up front.

Either way, they'll disappear and the taxpayer is left with a mess. Here's how you can spot a ghost tax preparer. First, they won't sign the return or include a preparer tax identification number.

That, by the way, is against the law. They may also ask for a payment without providing a receipt. They often will also falsify income to get more tax credits or claim phony deductions to get a bigger refund. They'll also sign up to have that refund direct deposited to their bank instead of the taxpayer's. The IRS has set up a database where you can check to see if anyone claiming to be a legitimate tax preparer is on the up and up. Again, go to IRS.gov and look for the enrolled agent search tool. The IRS also says you should carefully look over your return once your preparer has completed it. If you have questions, by all means ask them and make sure you verify the routing and bank account numbers on the return to make sure any refund will actually get to you. You also have to be on the alert for IRS phone scams.

These come in all varieties. For example, you may get a call about a tax bill you knew nothing about. The caller claims to be an IRS agent and warns that you'll be arrested or your social security benefits will be suspended if you don't pay immediately. These scam artists can even change their caller ID to say IRS and they may even have all or just the last four digits of your social security number. All to make the scam look legitimate, but don't be fooled.

The IRS will never contact you by phone. If you get a call like that, just hang up. Keep in mind they will contact you by mail first in every situation.

So those are your tax scams to watch out for this year. This is Faith and Finance Live and even though we're not here today and can't take your live calls, there's much more ahead on the program so please stay tuned. Hey, great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West, your host.

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That's faithfi.com and you'll see the app right there on the home page. Let's head back to the phones to Ohio. Joe, thank you for waiting patiently. Go ahead, sir. Yes, sir. You made a comment about paying your taxes or paying the tax on your IRA and paying it before you retire or whatever. I'm not sure if I understand what you were saying. You said something about paying your taxes earlier and then when you get older, you're making more money and you pay your taxes on that and I'm just not sure if that's what you were talking about. I see. Yes, sir. Well, maybe I can clarify.

I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to but let's work through it together. There are two types of IRAs. There's the traditional IRA where you actually get the deduction when you make the contribution in the year of the contribution. That allows you to exclude that amount that you're contributing to the traditional IRA from your current year's adjusted gross income that's taxable. That then grows tax-deferred so the taxes are not putting a drain or a drag on the investment gains while it's growing inside the IRA. Think of the IRA as the umbrella so the taxes as the rain come down, they don't touch the assets underneath that IRA umbrella so they can grow freely but then when you pull it out in retirement after 59 and a half, let's say you separate from paid work and now you're going to start living off or supplementing your income from the IRA as you take it out, it's going to be added to your taxable income and so you pay tax on it as income when you take it out as a distribution. There's another type of IRA called a Roth IRA that Senator Roth helped us to put in place decades ago and that is different in that when you make the contribution, you don't get the current year tax deduction. You put in after-tax dollars so you pay the tax on it, then you make the contribution and as that grows, it grows tax-free. Again, in the same way, it's growing without the taxes affecting it but when you pull it out in retirement, you pull all the gains out tax-free. You never pay any tax on it when you take it out in retirement. That is in effect a way to go ahead and pay the taxes today, put the money in the Roth, let it grow and then you don't pay taxes down the road.

Could that have been what you heard? No, you said something about paying the taxes after you retire because you're making more money. I disagree with you on that because I was making double what I'm making now on Social Security.

I would agree with you there. Perhaps, maybe you misunderstood or I misspoke because the reality is most folks are going to pay a lot less in taxes in retirement because they're making a lot less. They're just living on Social Security and maybe supplementing that with retirement assets as they draw an income from 401k that's been rolled to an IRA.

They're making less. The only question would be if we're talking about somebody who's younger, maybe in their 30s and we're saying, what is the tax code going to look like 35 years down the road? The odds are that we're talking about a tax code that is higher today in terms of the marginal tax rates down the road than it is today just because I think we're at the lower end today of what will ultimately be the tax code. I would tend to agree politically speaking with where we are today if not lower but I think the consensus is we're going to see higher marginal tax rates down the road. That would be a consideration but all things being equal, Joe, I would agree with you. Most people are going to pay less in retirement because they have less income.

That makes the case for the traditional 401k or IRA because I get the tax deduction now while I'm working and making more money and then I pay taxes on it when it comes out in retirement because I'm making less at that point. Does that make sense? Okay.

Yeah. But that's not that I didn't understand it that way. I thought you were saying you're making more money after you retire. And I said, No, no, typically not. No, I get that. And if I did, then I misspoke. So thanks for pointing that out, Joe.

I think we're on the same page, though. God bless you, my friend. To North Carolina. Hi, Alan. How can I help you, sir? Well, thank you for taking my call. And I so much appreciate your advice. But I'm retired from the army. And I draw social security plus a partial disability. And so all of my finances are from the government through the years, I would invest in the stock market and seem to do pretty well at that. But then before I retired, I had planned to buy a home and pay cash for it. And that's what I did.

Now. And so I have really no expenses. I try to pay, you know, buy everything with cash.

I pay off any credit card balances every month. And a question I have for you, because I have about maybe at any given time, I have about $3,000 just as a reserve. But my question of you is, you're talking about building up a reserve. Do you think that I need anything in addition to my retirement income?

Yeah. Well, so the question is in this season of life, Alan, what could you need other than your income? So if your income sources are guaranteed for the rest of your life, you're living modestly, they're more than you need to cover your bills, then what could change? Well, the primary thing that could change here is if you need significant long term care. Now, as a veteran, you may, you know, have that covered with, you know, services and facilities that are available to you.

But to the extent you needed nursing care or in home care, I mean, that could run, you know, six, eight, $10,000 a month. So if something is going to erode your assets in this season of life, that's usually what's what it's going to be. Apart from that, because you're debt free and living modestly. I mean, you know, there's only four things we can do with money. There's the money we live on, the money we give, the money we owe and the money we grow. Well, you've eliminated the O bucket because you're not going to pay any more tax than you already pay in and you don't owe anybody anything. If you've capped your lifestyle because you don't need to spend more on your living expenses, then that live bucket comes off. So then it's just give and grow. And the question is, how much do you need to continue to grow for the future versus how much can you start accelerating your giving right now because you just don't need any more?

And I think really the only kind of wild card, if you will, is if you were to need kind of major expense related to your long term care, if you needed that sort of, you know, nursing care or in home care that could be very expensive. Does that make sense? It absolutely does.

And I would just, again, go along with what you say about I became a Christian late about challenging people to give the first 10 percent to the Lord and then the other 90 percent spends better, but also challenge people to start living on a fraction of what you make. I love it. I love it. Unfortunately, I've got to hit a break, but that's music to my ears, Alan. Hey, thank you for your service, my friend. And thanks for your call today. This is Faith and Finance Live, and we'll be right back. So thankful to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. By the way, our team is not here today.

We're away from the studio, so don't call in. But we've got some great questions that we lined up in advance. We'll get to those in just a bit. You know, I'm reminded as we think about the role of money in our lives that we need to counteract the messages of this world. We need to operate from a biblical worldview. And when we look to Scripture, I think we really see three big ideas around the role of money.

The first is money is a tool. Yeah, we use it to buy things for ourselves and others, and we use it to accomplish God's purposes. But it's also a tool in the sense that God uses money in my life to teach me to rely on Him. It's a daily demonstration of my faith. It reveals where I place my trust and what I value.

So it's a tool. It's also a test. You know, having too much or not enough can be a test. Are we going to live with contentment? Will we choose contentment? Are we going to rely on money in place of God? It's a test in our lives, but it's also a testimony, especially our willingness to trust God when we have little or perhaps to share generously when we have much. That provides witness to an unbelieving world, even our faith to handle money God's way in the midst of uncertain times. That itself can be a great testimony to the world. So money is a tool.

It's also a test. And it's a testimony that God uses to both provide for my needs as well as to grow me up in my faith and rely more heavily on Him. I hope that's an encouragement to you today.

All right, we're going to head back to the phones in just a moment. But before we do, I want to remind you about the Weekly Wisdom email from Faithfi. Each week we send a special email message from me, plus the trending articles, videos, and podcasts on a variety of financial topics from a biblical worldview. And we'd love for you to join thousands and thousands of others who are receiving our Weekly Wisdom email every week by going to faithfi.com and click Sign Up to register. That's faithfi, faith-f-i-dot-com, and click Sign Up. So if you head over to faithfi.com right now, you can get signed up. Make sure you get that weekly encouragement to help you grow in your understanding of managing God's money wisely.

Again, all of the latest articles and videos and podcasts, what we believe is the best in Christian finance each week, right there in your inbox, ready for you to consume free of charge. Again, faithfi.com, click Sign Up on our website. By the way, while you're there, jump into the Faithfi community. You may not realize that we have a community there on our site where folks are asking questions, posting ideas literally every day, and other folks are encouraging them and providing responses.

And it's become really an active community of stewards just sharing ideas with one another. So be sure to check it out while you're there. All right, let's dive into some phone calls. Let's head to Texas. Teresita, thank you for calling. Go right ahead. Yes, Matt.

Yes, sir. Sorry. That's okay. I have paid off my credit card except for one, which is the $47,000. And I went through the consolidation. The consolidation paid off all of my credit card except for the $47,000.

And it's getting me upset because it's taking forever. And then so what I did went to another consolidation to pay off the $47,000, the last one. And so they were paying that off. But the old consolidation was charging me the fees. And it came out to a total of $27,000 with an interest of 26%. So is it possible for me to have somebody pay this $27,000 that I still owe for the servicing fee on consolidation? They're taking $772 every month from my account directly.

Wow. Teresita, if I understand correctly, and you are paying 26% interest and you've got 26 or $27,000 in interest and fees on top of this debt, that is really disheartening. I'm so sorry to hear that you're in this situation. What you no longer have any credit card debt, you took out a new loan to pay that off. And that's what you're referring to as the consolidation loan.

Is that right? No, I did not take any loan. I was just paying it off out of my income. Okay. So you were paying it directly to your original creditors?

Yeah. Well, the consolidation is paying them off. And the consolidation is taking money directly from my account. But it's getting me upset because it's taking forever. And the second consolidation, I told them, I'd rather pay it off myself. I feel like I am being cheated.

Yeah. I don't like the sound of what you have going on here. I want to have my friends at Christian Credit Counselors look at this. Teresita, normally when we use the word consolidation, we talk about a new loan coming in and paying off the other loans. And then we pay everything to one new lender, but everything's been consolidated or put together, and hopefully at a lower interest rate.

It doesn't sound like that's what you have here. The second option is what's called debt settlement, where they go in and just negotiate after your pass due a payment plan or a payoff. But I don't recommend that because it trashes your credit. And usually it doesn't work out in your favor. The third option, which is what I recommend, is called debt management or credit counseling, where you'd use existing programs to get the interest rates down with the original creditor. The account is closed.

And if you pay through a nonprofit credit counseling agency, the combination of a level payment plus a lower interest rate allows you to get that paid off much, much quicker, but with a lot less fees and interest than you're describing. So that's where I'm a little confused. So if you're comfortable using the internet, are you comfortable going on the web? Yeah, but right now I'm driving. I'm heading to my office. Oh, sure. Well, I want you to be careful and keep your eyes on the road.

But here's the thing. When you get there, head to christiancreditcounselors.org, christiancreditcounselors.org. And I want you to call their toll-free number.

These are all believers, Teresita. Explain to them what you have, show them the documentation, and they'll tell you how they can help you. Hopefully, if you're with the original creditors, they'll be able to say, listen, Teresita, we can get these interest rates way down and get a lot more of your monthly payment every month going to the actual principal reduction. That's really the goal here. But I want them to evaluate what you have and tell you how they can help you. And if for some reason they can't or you have further questions, you can call us back.

But when you get to work, the website again is christiancreditcounselors.org. Okay? Okay.

All right. Thank you for calling today. We appreciate it.

Much more to come just around the corner. Stick around. Thrilled to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. By the way, we're not here today.

Our team is away from the studio, so don't call in. But we have lined up some wonderful questions that I know you'll enjoy that we'll get to in just a bit. Hey, before we head back to the phones, I want to answer one of your emails. By the way, we receive these emails all the time at askrob at faithfi.com. Feel free to send your question along to be read on the air. Again, askrob at faithfi.com. That's faithfi.com. This one comes to us from Christy. She writes, Hi, Rob.

I love listening to your show. I'm in my 20s and I'm saving up for a house. I'm not sure about the best way to invest my current savings. Should I buy a CD or invest in the stock market? I'd appreciate any advice.

Thanks so much. You know, I think, Christy, the key here is your time horizon. So if you're planning on buying this house, let's say, in less than five years, then I don't want you investing in the stock market.

We really need a five-plus-year time horizon. So I love that you're saving and I realize it may take some time, but you're likely going to want to save that in a high-yield savings account. If you have some money already put aside, you could lock it up in a 15- or 18-month CD and get a little bit more interest. But you don't want to invest it because the key is to have that money available when you're ready to make the purchase. The problem with investing in the stock market is those stocks may be down at the time. We just don't know what would be going on at that moment and you may have to sell them at a loss. By the way, make your savings target 20% for a down payment at a minimum and then let's make sure that mortgage payment, including taxes and insurance, is no more than 25% of your take-home pay. That's going to ensure that you have enough left for everything else. But you can do this, stay at it, save diligently and you will be ready to make that purchase in no time.

And again, don't buy too much house even though these prices are still pretty high. All right, let's go back to the calls we've lined up for today in Arkansas. Hi Kay, how can we help you? Kay, through some illnesses, previous multiple surgeries, my husband and I got behind on taxes so we've been able to go to a CPA, get all those filed, so now we're down to the nitty-gritty where we need to go ahead and either negotiate a bulk price and maybe they all deal with us or we're not exactly sure what to do. I've gone ahead and filled out all the forms for the state for some kind of a forgiveness hardship type deal. But these companies that advertise that are supposed to help you negotiate, are they legit and is that even worth it?

Can we do it ourselves? You can do it yourself, although I would have the counsel of a CPA or an enrolled agent and I would love for you, Kay, to have somebody who specializes in what are called offers and compromise. So an IRS offer and compromise allows you to settle your debt for less than the full amount you owe and it can be a legitimate option if you either can't pay your full liability or doing so creates a financial hardship. So what they look at is your ability to pay, your income, your expenses, your asset equity and then they generally approve it when the amount you offer represents the most they can expect to collect within a reasonable period of time. And then you can either get on a payment plan or do a lump sum settlement, but having somebody who understands that work with you and represent you, I think is great.

But it doesn't need to be a company, so to speak, that does this. I would just have a tax professional similar to somebody who'd be filing your taxes, but this person would actually help you navigate that process. And it's going to involve a written statement explaining why the debt or a portion of the debt is going to create a hardship.

Is that the process you've been down, do you think, to this point or was it something else? Well, we have called one of those companies, but part of what they were telling us that I wasn't comfortable with was a temporary power of attorney and that made me nervous. And I did look at the offer and compromise on the IRS website, but now the last few years have been pretty good for us and we live very meekly. We say, so we actually have a savings that we've been saving for this, but I'm afraid if they show the savings that they're going to say, oh, well, you can pay the whole thing, which I don't think we have enough say for that, but we could possibly do a compromise settlement.

Yeah, I think that's right. And that would allow you to get on a payment plan and even perhaps have the total amount that's paid back, assuming this makes sense with your current assets and income and so forth, be less than what you owe. At the very least, you could get an installment agreement in place that allows you to pay it back over time so you don't deplete all of your liquid capital right now. But I think really the important thing is for you to have somebody who's walking alongside you. And I'd rather that either be a tax attorney or a CPA who has some experience in this as opposed to turning this over to a quote unquote tax settlement company where you're going to give them a power of attorney, that kind of thing. That may be necessary, but I'd want it to be a trusted professional. So if you don't have somebody, Kay, that can help you navigate this, I'd reach out to a certified kingdom advisor in your area and ask for a referral to a godly CPA or enrolled agent or a tax attorney who can help you navigate this.

Somebody who could represent you, who has experience in this, but you know, who's got some reputation that's trusted just so you know who you're working with. Okay. And I have gone ahead and the state was a real simple form. It was just a one sheet form. You just explain what had happened through the years. And I kind of think that they're going to deal with this, but I know the IRS is going to be much more complicated.

Yeah, well, you might be surprised. There's a similar form that you'll fill out with the IRS, but I think, you know, having somebody that can represent you has been down this road just makes a lot of sense. But you could just go to the IRS's website. For instance, they have an offer and compromise booklet, a PDF that you could download that will explain all of this. But I do think it's worth it to have some wise counsel, somebody helping you navigate the process and can really be that representation for you.

My experience is that's more effective when it comes to both settlements as well as getting an installment plan in place. So, again, if you don't have somebody, I'd just check with a certified kingdom advisor in your area, faithfi.com. Just click find a CKA. Keep us posted.

Thanks for checking in with us today to Kurt in Louisiana. Go ahead, sir. I've got a problem. God has blessed me with so much stuff. I've got like eight hundred thousand in CDs.

I've got five hundred K in stocks and I've got several homes in several different states. But I want to be a wise steward. What he has given me and I'm just struggling on what to do. Yeah. Well, it's a good problem to have. And yet we realize that it can be a challenge. I mean, the Bible is clear that it's not easy to handle material blessing.

And I'm delighted to hear you asking this question because it sounds like you recognize that you certainly don't want to be in a position where we're just building bigger barns. And I think that's perhaps what the stirring that you're experiencing is. I want to be faithful with this. And God's given me an abundance.

And Paul says, remember, you've got to learn to be content whether you're in plenty or in need. And so I think the key for you right now is to do some planning and have a godly advisor, wise counsel walking alongside you to define enough hurt both for your lifestyle. How much am I going to spend on a monthly basis? What's the cap for that and your accumulation? What's the cap on your accumulation? And what you will do in that process in defining enough in that financial finish line is actually be freed up to do a lot more giving. Because you might say, listen, I've already reached that accumulation point. I have enough. And when I define that finish line, now I can say, okay, how can I be a wise giver? I don't have any debt.

I don't want to increase my lifestyle. I don't need to save anymore. So the only bucket left is the give bucket. Let's do this. I've got to take a quick break. But if you can hold, I want to talk about what that might look like in the next segment.

Don't go anywhere. Still a lot more to come even though we're away from the studio today and you shouldn't call in. We have some great questions that you're really going to enjoy as we continue to apply God's wisdom to your financial decisions. We'll be right back. We're so glad you've joined us for Faith and Finance Live today.

Here in our final segment, let me remind you not to call in because we're not live today, but we'd love for you to stick around and enjoy the rest of the program. Before the break, we were talking with Kurt. Kurt has been blessed with an abundance. He's got roughly $1.3 million between CDs and stocks.

He's got a couple of homes and he's recognizing God has been incredibly generous to him and he just wants to be found faithful as a steward. You know, I think one approach, as I mentioned, Kurt, is to really do some planning to say how much is enough so you can accelerate your giving depending on not your resources, but ultimately God as your provider. And one way to approach that is to say, OK, how much do I need to live on for the rest of my life to the best of my ability? Again, not saying that I'm dependent to provide for myself through these assets. God is ultimately your provider. But what is responsible in terms of the amount I need to accumulate and how do I convert that to an income stream that's going to take care of me for the rest of my life?

And what is that finish line amount in order to do that so that between Social Security and whatever other retirement sources you have, plus your accumulations of these both real estate and stock and CD portfolios, what really is going to be necessary in order to generate that income that you need to maintain the lifestyle that you believe God has called you to? Have you gone through that type of exercise with a professional? No, I have not. OK. Would you be open to that? Yes.

Yeah. I think that might be a great next step for you. And, you know, I think somebody who understands the Council of Scripture and this idea that we want to live in this tension of we want to trust God as our provider. Yes, we want to accumulate.

So we've got enough that, you know, we can live off of so we can pursue God's calling, but also that we want to be, you know, willing to listen to the Holy Spirit in terms of responding to giving opportunities. And that could be through asset giving, which is, you know, by far the more tax efficient. You know, for instance, if you were to decide, hey, one of these homes, I don't really need that money. I could actually give it away. Well, prior to selling it, you could put it into a donor advised fund so you would eliminate all the capital gains and then all the proceeds of the sale go into your donor advised fund.

And now you could just have a great time giving that money away for God's purposes and save some taxes in the process. That's the kind of thing that I think a godly professional could help you really navigate as you think through this. So what you'd want to do, Kurt, is just head to our website at faithfi.com.

That's faithfi.com. Click find a CKA and connect with a professional there. Maybe interview two or three and find the ones that's the best fit. But tell me, kind of given what I've said there, what are your thoughts on kind of where you'd like to go from here? Well, this is what I'm struggling with.

I just realized that everything belongs to God and I'm just struggling on what to do. So I'll try to get on your site and try to get some more advice. Yeah. Are you in retirement right now? I'm 65, yes, collecting Social Security. Okay. And are you drawing an income from any of these, from the stocks or, you know, the CD accounts as they mature?

I've got a beneficial retirement account that it's mandatory to pull so much out. Yeah. Okay. Definitely that's only a couple thousand a year. Yeah. And you really don't even need that money because your Social Security is enough for you to live on? Well, yeah, I'm pretty frugal. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think you're in a position here right now where, you know, if you were to really look at it and this will come out in the planning process, you might be able to say, listen, I've already accumulated more than I need. And so then the question is, what do I do with it? And I think perhaps working through a process, you know, of discovering what are my passions? And, you know, if God has blessed me to be a blessing, then what areas are on his heart that align with what he's hardwired into me in terms of my passions so that I could begin to really do some hilarious giving like we see in scripture, you know, whether it's the ministry of God's word or the ministry of God's mercy, you know, in the poor and needy, maybe it's the ministry of God's justice and helping, you know, folks who are in, you know, human trafficking. I mean, you know, beginning to look at the things in scripture that are on the heart of God and then seeing which ones make you come alive and then aligning this abundance that God has given you with your passions and the things that we see clearly in scripture of ministries and, you know, that are doing great work in the name of Jesus. I mean, you could have a blast in this next season of life just really funding some great kingdom work. How does that thought, you know, fit into this for you? No, it sounds good. I just went to God and he gave me a blue print.

Yeah, well, there actually is one. So I don't know if you've ever heard of the organization called the National Christian Foundation. They're a wonderful ministry. It was actually founded by I don't know if you know the name Larry Burkett, but the late Larry Burkett, Ron Blue and an attorney named Terry Parker came together to found the National Christian Foundation and literally billions of dollars every year flow through in CF to, you know, 40 plus thousand ministries across the world. But the team at NCF is really skilled at not only complex gift planning. So how do you give away a business effectively or a piece of real estate or, you know, things like that, but also at helping you come up with what they call a giving strategy, which is actually a process that you work through to say, again, some of the things I mentioned earlier, how do the things that are on the heart of God align with my passions and what does it look like to build a giving plan for me so that I'm not just giving haphazardly, but I have some intentionality behind the giving that I'm going to do? Well, that's what NCF could help you do.

There's not any cost to it. They just want to help serve givers. And that's really their ministry. So I think that could be a real blessing to you.

If you head to ncfgiving.com and connect with them there and just say, I've heard about your giving strategy and I want to learn more because I have an abundance. And then secondly, perhaps connecting with a certified kingdom advisor as well to do some planning, I think would make a lot of sense. So I think those are perhaps your two next steps as you tackle this, Kurt, OK? Thank you so much. All right. Hey, God bless you, my friend.

Keep us posted. You know, there's probably some folks listening saying, how hard can it be? I mean, is this really a problem?

You've got too much money. And yet it is. It's a burden, just like it can be a challenge to be without. And obviously we all want to be found faithful wherever God has us today and in responding according to his wisdom that we find in the Bible. So we'll certainly pray that the Lord gives Kurt some wisdom here and how he navigates this. All right. We've got just a few minutes left.

You know, we heard from Abigail and she wrote about something similar. And folks, when you hear this, I don't want you to think, gosh, everybody who listens to this program, you know, has billions or tens of millions of dollars because that's just not the case. There's plenty of folks that are listening who are saying, listen, I'm struggling right now. I mean, I can't I don't have enough to make ends meet. I've got more month than money at the end of the road.

But so we've got folks really up and down the spectrum. And I think the idea is to say, what does faithfulness look like for me? Whether God has decided to give me an abundance or money is scarce right now. How can I make the next best step? Because ultimately, stewardship is about faithfulness to opportunity.

How can I be faithful with whatever God has entrusted to me today? Well, Abigail asked that same question. You know, she says, listen, we've got two point three million dollars and I'm afraid to spend it.

I need my kids could use some money. Our house needs to be repaired. How do I know whether it's wise enough to spend it? And I think, again, it comes back to this question of how much is enough.

Abigail, you know, we've got to define how much you need to sustain you for the rest of your life. And what you may find is that the income being thrown off by that two point three million, even at a four percent withdrawal rate is far more than you need. I mean, you could safely withdraw ninety thousand dollars a year without endangering the principal if it's invested properly. And so you may say, well, I just between that and Social Security, we don't need an extra ninety thousand. Well, that's great because now we've defined enough and we know that we can begin giving it away. You can absolutely take fifty thousand to repair your roof and begin giving some money to the kids if that's the way the Lord leads. And ultimately, remember, our trust isn't in our things.

It's in the Lord himself. Quickly to Alabama. Hi, Gwen. Thanks for calling. Go ahead.

Yes. I'm trying to find out if you resign or will it be best to be able to just take your money out or leave it in? Roll it over at the age of 50. So, yeah, you have a 401k and you're wondering about what to do with it.

Is that right? Well, just your whole part of the retirement also. OK. What type of retirement account is it, RSA?

OK. Yeah. Typically, what you would want to do is roll it to an IRA, an individual retirement account. That's going to give you more flexibility in terms of how it's managed. It's going to keep it in a tax deferred environment.

So it's not a taxable event. And then what you'd want to do is decide either you're going to manage it yourself or hire someone. And if you would like to hire somebody, you'd check with a certified kingdom advisor at our website, faithfi.com. Click Find a CKA.

Is that is that what you were looking for? What if you just want to, you know, you need to pull it out to pay off credit cards? Yeah, you certainly could.

I'd just be careful there. I'd check with my friends at Christian credit counselors dot org because that's going to be a taxable event. And I'd want to make sure that before you do that and pull retirement savings that you could really need down the road that you've solved the underlying problem when that got you into the credit card debt in the first place, because I wouldn't want you to pull out of the retirement account, pay off the credit cards, but you're still spending beyond your means. And then you call me six months and say the credit cards are back.

So call my friends at Christian credit counselors dot org first and check with them. Thanks for being on the program today. That's going to do it for us today. So thankful for my team today. Amy Rios engineer Tahira Haynes producer Gabby T on phones and Jim Henry providing great research today. Faith and finance live is a partnership between moody radio and money wise media as always. So thankful to have each of you listening and calling. We're grateful for your presence on this program. We'll look for you next time on faith and finance live. Bye bye.