Christian Financial Planning Program

Are you a planner and a goal setter? Someone who likes to help others arrange their finances with a biblical worldview? Hi, I'm Rob West. If that sounds like you, you'll be excited to hear there's a whole new career field for you as a Christian financial planner. I'll talk about that with Kurt Kornfield of Liberty University today, and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is MoneyWise Live, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, I'm excited to have with me today, Kurt Kornfield. He's associate professor of financial planning at Liberty University, a certified financial planner and a certified kingdom advisor.

So he has a few diplomas on the wall. Kurt, great to have you with us on the program. What a pleasure it is to be with you today, Rob. Kurt, you and I have been working on this for a long, long time, and I'm so excited to tell our audience about what is now a true career track in Christian financial planning. It's a program that you lead at Liberty. We'll talk about what's happening there as well as other universities around the country.

But first, why don't you explain what it is? Yeah, Rob, thank you. About 12 years ago now, Liberty University was the first evangelical school to offer a CFP, which stands for Certified Financial Planner Program. And a year later, with Ron Blue's help, we were able to add the certified kingdom advisor training to our program as well. And so now we've been doing this for 12 years and there's some other schools that have joined in on the fun. But the cool thing is we're able to insert all the biblical wisdom that comes from the kingdom advisor training into our curriculum. So our students are well prepared to enter this industry with a biblical worldview. I love it. And it really matches, I think, the heart of this emerging generation, which is to connect impact and meaning to their work. It's something we should all be thinking about, but it seems like it's especially important for this next generation. From just a university standpoint, Kurt, what type of program is this?

Yes. So each of the schools that are offering this might do things a little bit different, but at Liberty University, it's part of our school of business. So when our students graduate, they actually get a bachelor's of science in business administration with a concentration in financial planning. And that concentration in financial planning actually leads to their ability to sit for the CFP exam. And that puts them on a fast track to become a certified financial planner. All of the universities that now offer this would put their students on that same fast track.

Okay. And the differentiator here is that now with the CFP education alongside the CKA, they're ready to actually sit for both. One, the CFP being really the industry standard for financial planning, but then obviously Certified Kingdom Advisor brings the biblical worldview alongside it.

Yeah. And so I think what you know is there's a lot of Christian advisors out there. By some estimates, there might be as many as 100,000. And when they look to add people to their teams, they often find it difficult to find young people with a similar worldview. And now that these Christian universities are developing people right at the front end of their careers, there's a natural fit there. And it's really been exciting to see that these Christian advisors out there are very anxious to hire our students. Well, give us a little sense of what's going on there, because I know as you not only teach the students and run this program, you're also hearing from and experiencing advisors showing up on campus to interview your students.

Yeah. Literally this semester, this is the fall semester, we'll have 16 different employers actually, in some cases, fly in. We have employers flying in today to visit with our students tomorrow.

And it's just exciting to see that there's that much demand for the students coming out of these programs. Yeah. Kurt, I know you have some estimates on the number of your graduates now working for a certified Kingdom advisor. Can you give us a rough gauge of that?

Yes. Since we've been doing this 12 years now, we've had about 300 graduates on the residential side. That's the side I'm most involved with. There is online students as well. It's a little harder to track the online students, but the residential students that we're tracking, about 70% of them that actually choose to go into this industry are now working for either a certified Kingdom advisor or someone that certainly has a biblical worldview that's part of the way they serve their clients.

I love it. Well, we'll continue to unpack this, A Career Path in Christian Financial Planning. We're joined today by Associate Professor of Financial Planning at Liberty University, Kurt Kornfield, much more to come just around the corner.

Stick around. Thanks for joining us today on MoneyWise Live. I'm Rob West and this is biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.

We're joined today by my friend Kurt Kornfield. Kurt is Associate Professor of Financial Planning at Liberty University. He's a certified financial planner and a certified Kingdom advisor. He's here today to talk about an exciting new career track in Christian financial planning.

That's right. Here at Kingdom Advisors, along with the work of the Ron Blue Institute, we've partnered with Liberty and a number of other universities that we'll share in just a moment to prepare the next generation of certified financial planners along with the certified Kingdom Advisor educational program so that they're prepared to sit for both designations as they're entering the workforce. And Kurt, as you shared, not only are they being equipped in a way that other students aren't with the biblical worldview, but there's real jobs waiting for them. You've experienced that now with hundreds receiving offers and working for certified Kingdom Advisors around the country.

And as a parent who might be listening, yeah, they want their kids to make a Kingdom impact, but they also want to know that when they get that diploma, they can actually go to work. And we're seeing both happening here, right? Yeah, that's correct. The marketplace turned for financial advisors about five, six, seven years ago after we kind of survived the financial crisis of 2007 and eight, nine. And so now there's more people retiring every year than are actually coming into the industry. So the opportunities are limitless. And that would include secular companies as well as these biblically minded employers as well.

Hmm, that's great. Kurt, talk about the program that you've built there and just give these parents who perhaps are hearing about it for the first time or maybe even a prospective student who's listening a sense of what this program entails. How many years are we talking about and the type of education they will receive?

Yeah, good question. In order to be a certified financial planner, you do have to have a bachelor's degree. So that's why it naturally fits in with these university programs. But most of them are also going to include a general liberal arts education or at least a business track education. But there's seven courses that are added to your education that are specifically geared to this CFP training. There would be courses like estate planning and retirement planning and investment planning and insurance planning. So when you take all these courses, it's amazing how well prepared these students are for the workplace. And employers keep indicating to us that our students are really way ahead of a student that comes out of a time where they haven't studied these specific courses.

Yeah, very good. And it's one of the reasons I'm so excited here on MoneyWise for us to shine a spotlight on this because most people just don't even realize that this type of career is available and there's a real demand for it. Kurt, you mentioned that although Liberty is doing a lot of work in this area and you have more than 100 students in the program right now, there are other universities around the country offering something similar. So would you describe what's happening around the country and even give us a list of those university names?

Yeah, absolutely. It's been really fun to be kind of a pioneer in this field, but we're actually in our 13th year now. But a few years after we started Mount Vernon Nazarene University in Ohio, I believe was the second program. After that, there's several programs that started.

I'll try to name them all. Indiana Wesleyan University has an online program. A Calvin University in Michigan has a CFP-CKA program, as does Biola University in California. We also have California Baptist that has a program, both CFP and CKA. Charleston Southern University this year has added a program in Charleston, South Carolina. Taylor University in Indiana has a program. And there's three others that I know have CFP programs and a fourth that's considering starting next year. So it's just exciting to see that these other Christian universities are kind of following in our path and recognize that there's a real need and there's a demand for their students when they graduate. Well, if you're interested in learning more about one of these programs, you have a prospective student, you are a student interested in this through an undergraduate program, just reach out to any of the universities that Curt just mentioned directly and they can give you the details on their particular program. Curt, as professor to these students going through this financial planning degreed program with CKA, give us a sense as you walk alongside these students, just what happens in their lives, their enthusiasm for their work as they see an opportunity to blend their profession with their ministry calling.

Yeah, that's a good question. And it really goes back to my own story in that I was an advisor for 36 years in this industry, working for two of the largest investment firms. And I love my job, but it wasn't until I was introduced to Kingdom Advisors about 13, 14 years ago and went through the Kingdom Advisor training that I really began to understand the importance of integrating my faith into my practice.

And it really just gave me a whole new life in this second half of my career. And it's why I had the desire to teach young people on the front end of their careers about what the Bible says about money and finances so they could integrate it into their careers. Because what young people tell us today, Rob, and you know this because you're around some young people, is they really want to, and I know they genuinely want to integrate their faith into what they do. And I can't think of a career track that lets a graduate do that as well as this career track can do. And so it's exciting to just watch these kids kind of when the light bulb goes off and they really see that, hey, I get to have a fun career, but I also get to talk to people about my faith and integrate what the Bible says and the wisdom that comes with that into the conversation that they're having with their future clients.

And it's just fun to watch how successful some of them have been, even in the worldly sense, but certainly in God's eyes. No question about it, Kurt, and that's why I'm so excited about what's happening here. Kurt, I know you and I work closely together with the team here at Kingdom Advisors on the annual conference and the role of these students in that gathering place that's the really gathering place for the Christian financial industry each February. We'll have more than 2,000 advisors there in Orlando this coming February, and we'll have nearly 150 students from the universities you mentioned.

Talk about that piece of what you've been building here. Yeah, this is the 13th year of our program and probably the smartest thing I did the very first year that I had students, and it was only four, but I took them to the Kingdom Advisor Conference. That would have been back in February of 2011, and every year our numbers have grown. And it was fun about three or four years later when other universities started bringing their students. And this coming year, you mentioned we'll have about 150 total students.

I think we'll have 14, 15, maybe even as many as 16 or 17 different schools represented there. And what happens at that event for our students is life changing. I mean, literally students will come back and during the conference, they'll just say, Professor, just being here around all these really amazing Christian people that are in this industry, it changes how they view what they're going to do when they leave their respective universities. And I'm really grateful to the Kingdom Advisor organization for providing such an amazing conference that lets these students get so excited about how God can use them. Well, it's become a big part of what happens at that event every year. And we do actually a job fair for the students to interview with prospective employers or to be brought on for internships at the event.

And it is really exciting. Well, Kurt, we've just scratched the surface. Quickly list those universities again for folks who want to learn more.

So it's Liberty University, Charleston Southern University, Mount Vernon Nazarene University, California Baptist University, Biola University, Taylor University, Calvin University and Indiana Wesleyan University. All right, Kurt, thanks for stopping by. You're welcome. Well, we'll have Kurt back again real soon to talk more about this, but we'll be right back on MoneyWise Live.

Stick around. Great to have you with us today on MoneyWise Live. I'm Rob West, your host. We're taking your calls and questions now as we turn the corner to anything financial. The number to call today is 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. You know, it was a delight to have Kurt Kornfield stop by today. How exciting is it to think about entering a profession that's growing but also allows you to bring your faith with you? Well, that's the opportunity for these young students, undergraduate students entering the workforce, ready to sit for a certified financial planner designation, but also ready to apply God's word, recognizing everything we talk about here every day, that we're owners or we're not owners.

God's the owner. We're the manager of his resources. And when we counsel clients, and that's what financial advisors do, we're really dealing with heart issues, which opens the door for incredible kingdom impact. Well, I couldn't be more excited about this true career path in Christian financial planning and we'll continue to talk about it, perhaps even bring some students on the program in the future to be able to share some of the stories of what they're seeing and experiencing as they enter the workforce, making their practice as their ministry.

It really is exciting. All right, we'd love to hear from you today. What's on your mind financially speaking again? 800-525-7000. Let's begin today in Tennessee. Hey, John, thanks for calling, sir.

Go right ahead. Yes, I bought a universal life policy for my dad when he was age 61, back in 1995. And he's, I'm getting to the point where the premium paid in is getting very close to the death benefit of 100,000.

Yeah, he's 88 years old now. And I have paid in $74,605. And each year, it's like $8,500 to keep it going. And I think I'm going to have to increase it again next October for even more. I wasn't really aware that you could actually have more in premiums than your benefit. And I was wondering what, I mean, I feel like at this point, it started out at 1200 a year, which was no big deal.

But as it, you know, age, like after 20 years, I think when the big increase happened, it's like I'm committed, like to follow through. I don't feel like I can pass on my $74,000 that I've already spent. But it's kind of odd that you can actually spend $125,000 to get $100,000 back, apparently. Yeah.

Is there anything I'm missing? Yeah, well, there is the cash availability in there. Do you know what the cash value of this policy is right now? Basically zero. I am just carrying, paying enough to keep it floating year by year.

Okay. But you've asked that question to see if there is any cash value. Yes, I'm in the insurance business myself. So I'm fairly, I just didn't realize that it seems like it would be a federal law that in order to be an insurance product, that your premium couldn't exceed your benefit.

Yeah, yeah. Well, no, over the life of the policy, you absolutely could. I mean, as you know, the cash value is separate from the death benefit. But in this case, if the cash value was in any growth that took place in that policy, you know, was eaten up by, you know, the premium, then, you know, at this point, if it's at zero, unfortunately, you're going to have to continue to pay on it.

The challenge is, as you said, you're going to can, you know, continue to do that, and this is going to keep growing. Is there a need for it at this point? I mean, what other than just the money that's already been expended? You know, what is the death benefit going to be used for? It's, there's really not a need for it. I just took it out 27 years ago when there was a need for it, but I don't feel like I can walk away from 74, you know?

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think if that's the approach you're going to take, you're going to have to see it that way, that, you know, obviously we want Lord to allow him to have as much time here as possible. And as long as he lives, you're going to continue to pay that premium of which you'll get a portion of that back. But as you said, for the benefit of having that in the early days, you're paying for it now because the mortality expense is continuing to increase. I think the only thing I might consider John is just contacting the insurance company and saying, you know, at what point is this paid up?

And, you know, can you give me some options here that I can look at beyond just continuing to pay on it? Because, you know, I think the challenge is, you know, do you walk away from $75,000 or do you put another $50,000 in it? I realize at that point you would get $100,000 back at his death that could be used for some other purpose, but could that money be, you know, repurposed for something else that's more productive now? You know, given that you did have the death benefit, so there was a real value there that you were offsetting that risk that existed.

It no longer exists today. I realize you want to be a good steward, but we don't know how long he has here. None of us do, of course, and so I think that's really the ultimate question is, does it make sense to continue to pay what is significant premiums or is it better to take that money and deploy it elsewhere even though you're walking away from considerable premiums that have been paid over the years?

So, I think that one's one you're just going to have to think through, but I, you know, you're in the business and you understand this, but I think I would just be in touch with the insurance company and find out if there's a paid-up option here and, you know, what other options exist moving forward other than just surrendering the policy. Okay. All right, Watts. I appreciate your input on it. Absolutely, John.

Sorry, this is a difficult one, I understand, and all the best to you as you navigate this and walk alongside your dad in this season of life. We appreciate your call today. Well, we've got plenty more program ahead and some great questions coming up, but perhaps a few lines, one might be just for you. If you'd like to give us a call today with your financial question, we'd love to hear from you.

800-525-7000. Hey, as we head toward year end, this is a critical time for us as we hear from so many of you that support our work between now and the end of the year. We're trying to hit a goal of what we need to see coming in to plan for next year. So if you'd like to consider a gift, you can do that on our website, moneywise.org, just click give and thanks in advance. We'll be right back. Great to have you with us today on Money Wise Live, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.

Three lines are open. 800-525-7000 with whatever is on your mind today, we'd love to hear from you. Let's head back to the phones to Florida we go. Jessica, you're next up.

How can we help you? Hi, thank you for taking my call. I just like your input on a situation. I currently have a home that I want to sell. And when I sell that home, I currently live in my mom's house and she actually turned that house over to me. I want to sell that house also. But before I sell the rental property, which is the first initial home, I'm thinking either with that money because it has no mortgage on it, I can either purchase a new house or I can stay in my mother's house, pay off that one and just put some money into fixing it up and then putting some money aside for my daughter. I just wanted to know what your idea or what your take on those two options are. I know that free is usually the way to be, but I want to change neighborhoods into a more kid-friendly neighborhood, if that makes sense.

Sure. Yeah, I think we've got to identify really what are the decision points here. There's the financial side of this equation. What is the best way to maximize these assets that you have right now in addition to your primary residence, which I have some questions about how that went down between your mom giving that to you. Right now you have a real rental property, so real estate asset. The question is, is that better served in terms of once you sell that asset, better served by paying down debt, insuring up your financial foundation or redeploying that into another property, which puts you back in the position of landlord as a real estate investor. There's the financial side, but then there's the non-financial side, which is part of this equation involves your primary residence, your domicile, where you're raising your daughter and living, which is more than just an investment because the definition of an investment is once it accomplishes its purpose, we sell it. That's not how we approach our homes because there's so much more to it than that.

That obviously is a big part of this equation. I guess first question is, tell me about the home that you're in now. It belonged to your mom. Did she gift it to you? Okay, so I don't know if it'd be considered gifted, but we're in the process of doing a quick claim deed. With a quick claim deed, essentially she's giving it to you. With the ladybird deed, basically that's a special form of a life estate deed that gives the owner, in this case your mom, control over the property until her death and then it's transferred automatically to the new owner without the need for probate. If she does the quick claim, it actually is then a gift and it becomes your asset. The downside of that is the cost basis, her original cost basis, which is what determines any capital gains when it's sold, is going to transfer to you as opposed to you receiving it as an inheritance at her death where you get a stepped up basis so the cost basis is adjusted up to the value of the property as of the date of death.

That's really only a tax consideration, but it is significant because you could avoid significant capital gains by living in it and then receiving it as an inheritance at her death at which point the cost basis resets. But regardless of that, is your desire to stay there, Jessica, or did I hear you say you'd actually like to move because you want to move to a different neighborhood? Yes, I would like to move.

My heart wants to move. Okay. All right. So I think then the question is, okay, so we've got this rental property and we're going to liquidate that. How much equity do you have in that? So it has no mortgage. So I was told, I was speaking with a realtor, they said I can put it up for about $318,000.

Okay. So you'd have $318,000. And then if you were to, I think you've got to clarify what kind of deed, who actually owns this property that you're living in and your understanding? Is it still owned by your mom or do you believe it's owned by you now? Right now it's still owned by my mother.

I just have to go to the courthouse and pay to have it be transferred over to me. Okay. And does she live with you?

No. So we did this because she's actually in a nursing home. Okay.

Very good. And so if you were to sell it, then the proceeds, her intention is for the proceeds of the home you're living in today, currently her home about to be yours, would stay with you as well? She wanted you to have the value of the home? Right.

Okay. And what do you think you would sell that for? It would probably be at least $300,000, probably the same about my house because it's in the same neighborhood somewhat. And it's more square footage, at least. And is there a mortgage on that one?

Yes, there is. And what's that? About $100,000 left. Okay. So you'd have about $200,000.

So you could theoretically sell both properties and be sitting on half a million dollars and be debt-free, correct? Correct. All right.

And then what do you think you would want to spend on the next property that you would buy to live in? That's the thing. I don't want to go over four, but when I look around and where I desire, it's not even an option. Okay. Well, that's a challenge. Yeah. So we want to set a budget and then stick with it.

And the ability to do that is obviously key. Now, the real estate market is softening. If we were to get into a recession coupled with these high interest rates, could we see a falling housing market?

Absolutely. It's already down 6% or 7% nationally. I could see it being down as much as 20% before this is done. A lot of that just depends on what happens with interest rates.

How long do they stay high? Do we actually get into a full-blown recession? So one option is you kind of sit on this for six months or so. You could go ahead and sell the rental property.

You'd have to set aside any capital gains for the taxes at 15% probably if you've held it for more than a year. And then at that point, you're sitting on a lot of cash. You make the decision as to the timing of the sale of your mom's property that's about to be yours. You make sure that you have a viable place to move to in terms of something you'd be happy with to raise your family and that you can afford that doesn't cause you to stretch. The good news is at that point, and this is where I think getting back to your original question, I love the idea of you buying that with cash, being completely debt-free and then taking the excess you have on a monthly basis plus whatever's left over, shoring up your emergency fund and then starting to systematically invest into a properly diversified stock and bond portfolio preferably through a retirement plan where you have tax deferral and then build wealth that way being debt-free with a lot of flexibility. Now, of course, if you decided, no, I really want to stay in the real estate business, I'd prefer to grow my wealth that way, you certainly could do that. I think there's just a lot of questions right now.

I probably wouldn't make that decision until you settle the ultimate question about where you're going to live beyond this current place and can you find something that fits your budget that you're happy with and meet your needs. Does that all make sense? Yes, that makes sense. Okay.

All right. I think if you know you want to sell this rental property, perhaps you proceed with that while this market's high because it's still at a really high level right now. Let's get the full value we can out of that property and then let's hold onto that cash, see if the market takes a dip before you sell your current place.

In the meantime, start really doing your homework to see if you can find that property that fits your budget that you'd be happy with in terms of location and neighborhood for your next purchase and then maybe target six to 12 months to do that and then you can make the decision on whether you pay cash for that or get a mortgage and look for a second property alongside it. Thanks for your call, Jessica. This is MoneyWise Live. We'll be right back.

Welcome back to MoneyWise Live, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. I'm Rob West, your host. I'm taking your calls and questions today. We've got room for perhaps one more at 800-525-7000.

That's the number to call. Let's head to Missouri. Andrew, you're next on the program. Go ahead, sir.

Hi, Rob. First of all, thank you for your program. It's very helpful.

Appreciate all your wisdom you share with all of us. I have a 401k at work. A few years ago, it was tanking and so I pulled out the management company and was just put it off into a safe bucket all just managing it myself. And last year, it only made like 0.71% year to date. And I was thinking, what's a reasonable rate of return?

Should I let the company's retirement managing company have it again? I don't know. When you said last year, and then you said year to date, are you talking this year or 2021?

Yeah, 2022. It's only increased 0.71%. Okay, and that's from January of this year to today? Last week when I checked it, yeah.

Okay, that's phenomenal. Most people are negative on the year for this year. So we're in a really difficult market right now, just given what's going on with runaway inflation, 40 year high inflation. And as a result of that, the Federal Reserve, which had historically at least since 2008-2009 kept the interest rates down near zero and created a lot of money in the system to really fuel this economy. It has resulted in sky high inflation on top of the pandemic and supply chain issues and issues around the rest of the world, whether that's China with the lockdowns and Japan has its issues.

Europe certainly has its own with a recent liquidity crisis. And here we are in the United States and you kind of put all that together and the market's been down more than 25%, although we've had a rally as of late. So the fact that you're invested and you're positive on the year is phenomenal. I think you've got to look over the longer term. I don't know how much data you have on your historical performance, but that would be more what I would be interested in as opposed to a particular period of time, like year to date, especially given the unusual nature of this year. Do you have a sense of what the longer term performance has been over, let's say the last five years?

I don't. That company took over a previous company. And, you know, I was really I don't know. How do you find out what is their average rate of return for the people using their services?

You know? Well, I would ask them, I mean, you could certainly do the work yourself, but they should be able to give you that type of report with the push of a button because what you're going to want to see is various time periods. What has it done over a year? What's it done over three years, five years?

You want to see that return. They're going to have to factor in any withdrawals you took. It may not be any, but if there were, you'd have to factor that in because that's not a part of the performance if you're taking money out. And then, you know, in addition to that, they would look at the performance and show you that versus what's called a benchmark. So depending on your age and the investment strategy, how much was to bonds, how much was to stocks, they should be able to compare your performance to what the overall market did with a similar strategy to say, you know, if the market during this period was up an average of eight percent a year and you're up an average of nine or you're only up six versus the eight. I mean, that's the kind of information that would be helpful. And again, although you could calculate all of that, an advisor should be able to give you that analysis in a report. And I'd ask to be able to sit down and review that with them to be able to analyze how they've done and, you know, why they've done better or worse than the market and discuss whether or not the strategy fits for you in terms of what you're trying to accomplish based on your age and objective.

So I would be returning back to the person or the organization that's managing this to get that kind of report and ask for them to do that either in person or virtually and review that with you. Hmm. Well, thank you. Okay.

Yeah. I didn't know if there was a 10 percent annual return is reasonable or five or. Well, it just totally depends on what's the strategy. You know, some folks that are in or near retirement are going to have a much different, you know, objective in terms of capital preservation and income that might result in the target being an annualized three or four or five percent a year because they want to be very conservative. Others who are in their 20s and 30s might be looking to, you know, try to have a more of a growth oriented portfolio that will have more volatility.

And they're, you know, hoping for eight percent, nine, 10 percent, something like that. So you don't you can't compare two different strategies and say there's just one expected return. It really is all dependent upon how much risk are you willing to take in exchange for what return.

And you want to try to minimize your risk as much as possible in a way that matches what your objectives are, which has to do with your age and your your risk tolerance. So I would reengage your adviser to discuss this a little bit further and see what kind of reports they can furnish about how this has performed over time. And hopefully that'll give you the information you need. Andrew, thank you for your call, sir.

Stafford, Arizona. Hey, Arnold, how can I help you, sir? I had a question pertaining to that CPA schooling. How long does that do you have to is that required to go to get that CPA certificate?

And I'm an older gentleman, almost 70. I think I was wondering if that's too late to do something like that. That's my first question. And then I got another question about the life insurance. OK, now you said CPA, which is certified public account. What we were what we started by talking about today is what's called the CKA, the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation, which is really for those who are financial professionals or planning to enter financial services. And it's meant to be an add on designation for those that want to specialize in bringing a biblical worldview of financial decision-making to their clients. And that CKA designation accompanies either at least 10 years of working in the business, which you wouldn't have if you're just entering into financial services, or you can bring with you a CFP designation, which, you know, that's typically a program that can take a year or so to complete, depending on how quickly you go through the curriculum. And then you need to have a couple of years, I believe it's three years of work experience before you could earn that CFP. But is that what you were asking about what we started with today?

The CKA designation? Right. And the other one, a gentleman called in about his father, you know, paying those premiums. I mean, I'm in a similar situation, but I'm going to continue paying up because I had a stroke and any other insurance company will not insure me again, you see. So I'm grandfathered in, so I've got to stay.

That's the advice I'd give him, because in the long run, he won't be able to buy another one. Yeah. Do you have somebody that's depending upon you for your income? If the Lord were to take you home, Arnold, and you passed away, is there somebody that's counting on your ability to generate an income for their needs?

Oh, yes, I would leave it to my wife and she would leave it on to our two children. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So you're exactly right. If somebody's still depending upon you for your income, your death would create a hardship for them because your income goes away.

And absolutely true, if you've qualified for a policy that's in force and you have had a stroke and that would create a challenge for you to get another policy, your ability to keep that in current is critical because you wouldn't be able to replace it otherwise. So appreciate your calling, sir. God bless you.

To Florida we go. Brenda, how are you today? How can I help you? Hi.

Okay. So I'm turning 60 on Friday and I've been wanting to drop my supplement plan. I've been on disability for a long time on Medicare and I've had UnitedHealthcare for AARP as a supplement and it's gone up from the beginning that I had at $450 a month to $919 a month. And they say, I have Plan F, they say if I drop it now, I'm guaranteed to get it back as long as I don't take an advantage plan. But they don't pay over, I did the math and they don't pay $1,000 in even five months of my medical costs. Medicare picks up most everything. So I just see it as I should bank at $919 for myself and pay a $25 doctor's office when I go or $35.

Yeah. I mean, that's sky high there, Brenda. I would look around, you know, the average Medigap premium across all plans in 2022 is $128 a month, which is quite a bit away from $919. Now, some Medigap plans have far fewer enrollees than other types of plans, which could dramatically increase the premiums. And it seems like that may be what's happening to you at $920 a month. So what I would do is shop it around, try looking into other Medigap plans or even Medicare Advantage plans. You know, some Medicare Advantage plans don't require any premium above your Medicare premium, the existing premium. And so I would absolutely shop this around and see if you could get something that's far more affordable as you think about the future here.

So you can have the coverage you need, be able to get the care you need, but not anywhere close to that kind of out-of-pocket expense. Hopefully that's helpful to you, Brenda. This is a great time for you to shop that around. So we appreciate your call today very, very much.

Well, folks, that's going to do it for us. So thankful to have you along with us today. Let me again remind you, as we press toward year-end, if you'd consider a gift to the ministry, we'd be grateful as we head toward our year-end goal to be able to plan for our ministry endeavors next year. Whatever you might consider as a gift, we'd be grateful. You can give it quickly and easily online at moneywise.org. Just click give. You can give online through the mail or over the phone. Let me say thank you to my team today, Colette, Gabby T., Amy and Jim. Couldn't do it without them. Thank you for being here as well.

MoneyWise Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and MoneyWise Media. Have a great evening. Come back and join us tomorrow. Bye-bye.