History of Faith-Based Investing

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Not licensed in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Massachusetts, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Utah. First Corinthians 10 31 sets a high bar for how Christians are to act in this world. It reads, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

I am Rob West. If we're to do all for God's glory, that certainly includes how we invest. Jason Meyer joins us today to talk about the history of faith-based investing.

Spoiler alert, it goes back further than you think. Then it's onto your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is MoneyWise Live, where biblical wisdom meets today's financial decisions. Well, our guest, Jason Meyer, is with Eventide, an underwriter of this program.

Eventide is also a very special investment company because its entire focus is on faith-based investing. Jason, always great to have you back on the program. Thanks, Rob.

It's really great to be with you again. Jason, we often think that faith-based investing is a relatively new invention, but Christians have actually been challenged by this for a long time. So perhaps take us back, give us a bit of a history lesson.

Yeah, sure. So as you said, we tend to think about faith-based investing as something new. So the first faith-based investing mutual fund began in the 1990s. So we typically see this as a part of a larger story about socially responsible investing, which actually started earlier. So socially responsible investing started with their first fund in the 1970s. So we tend to think about this story as starting as a secular movement in the 1970s with Christians joining in later and kind of creating a Christian version of socially responsible investing that fits our values and ethical commitments. But the real story is actually much, much more interesting and actually began hundreds of years earlier as a Christian movement.

And so to tell it right, you really need to kind of put your mind back in the old world and to think about how modern investing got its start. So if you go way back to the 1400s, the way that businesses got financing was from the rulers of society, from the aristocracy. And so Christopher Columbus is actually an example of this. Columbus wanted to start a for-profit shipping business and he needed capital. And he ultimately got that capital from the rulers of Spain, from Ferdinand and Isabella.

That's fascinating about Columbus. You know, we don't tend to remember that he was starting a business and needed investors. And I imagine that getting financing from kings and queens back in that day wasn't easy, was it? Right.

Yeah. So the problem with this arrangement, as you can imagine, was that one investor had to put up all the capital and bear all the risk of failure. And really, only kings and queens had that kind of capital and capacity for risk. And so obtaining financing to start businesses was very difficult back in the day. And Columbus is actually an illustration of that difficulty. So a lot of us forget that Columbus had to go all over Europe looking for investors. And he heard a lot of no's before he finally heard that yes from Spain.

He was first turned down in Italy and France and England. And so back in the day, business had a tough time getting a start because of that capital and risk constraint. So how did that change? Yeah, it all changed in the 1600s with the invention of, drum roll, the stock and the bond. And modern investing was born.

So in 1600 and 1602, the British India Company and the Dutch East India Company, these were shipping companies just like Columbus. They got their start and raised the capital that they needed by issuing stocks and bonds to ordinary investors, first time that had ever been done. And this was a significant advance for business because now, instead of needing one person to put up all that capital, to bear all that risk, you could break it up into these many tiny pieces. Instead of meeting a king and queen to give you millions of dollars, you just needed to find many smaller investors who were willing to give you, say, a few hundred dollars.

Exactly. So how did it go with those first companies that used stocks and bonds? It was a huge success. The British India Company and Dutch East India Company became wildly successful and their investors enjoyed great riches as a result. To give you an example of this, the Dutch East India Company, one of those two companies, grew in value to $8.2 trillion in today's money, making it far and away the most successful company to have ever existed.

And to just put that into perspective, they were more than four times as successful as the company Apple is today, which is the largest company that exists today. Now, you can probably guess what happens next. Well, I sure can, but we'll save that for right after the break and we'll talk about how the church responded to this new world of investing. Jason Meyer of Eventide is with us.

Much more to come just around the corner. Stay with us. Welcome back to Money Wise Live.

We're so glad to have you along with us today. Jason Meyer joins us today of Eventide with a bit of a history lesson on faith based investing. Although the first faith based investing mutual fund was launched in the 1990s, the story around faith based investing, investing to make a social impact and ultimately a kingdom impact started much earlier.

In fact, hundreds of years earlier as a Christian movement. Just before the break, Jason Meyer was giving us an example of how Christopher Columbus was really an example of this, wanting to start a for profit shipping company and needing capital that resulted in raising money through stocks and bonds, which, Jason, as you said, was wildly successful. The British India Company and Dutch East India Company were examples of this. And I think you said the Dutch East India Company grew in value to, in today's dollars, $8.2 trillion in value, which is unbelievable. And yeah, I can only imagine that what followed that was incredible greed, right?

Yeah, you guessed it. People got dollar signs in their eyes. They observed how many people made a fortune off of those first stocks from those shipping companies.

And so everyone wanted in on the action. It starts jumping into investing, snatching up every new stock and bond that starts being issued. And so here's a really important point in the history of faith based investing as the attention of investors turned to the profit making potential of investing. People started thinking less and less about the kinds of businesses that they were supporting. It became all about that profit making potential.

I can only imagine. Jason, how did the church respond to this new world of investing? Right. So what was needed at this time was for someone to come along and to bring an ethical vision for the practice of investing. And the person that would do that is a man named John Wesley. So John Wesley was a Christian minister in England in the 1700s.

And you might recognize that name. He started what today we call the Methodist Church or the Methodist denomination of Christianity. Still exists to this day. It was started by Wesley. And Wesley was observing the greed and lack of discernment that was taking place and investing in his day and decided to speak into it in the way that he knew how, which was by preaching a sermon to his congregation. The sermon was entitled The Use of Money.

This was in 1769. It was a very practical sermon that spoke into this new world of modern investing. Wow.

Fascinating. Can you share just a bit of that sermon? What was he sharing?

Sure. I'd love to because I think the sermon actually still has a lot of relevance for us today. So this is a quote from the sermon. He said, We are to gain all we can, but without hurting our neighbor. So he was not opposed to making money.

He said, hey, gain all we can. But make sure that we're earning our money from business activities that are benefiting our neighbor. So he's reminding us here that there's something on the other end of investing. It's not just the profits.

There's businesses on the other end. And through those businesses, an impact in the lives of our neighbors and indeed the world. And he got really specific in this sermon describing many of the businesses that existed in his day that he felt were predicated on harming others. And he warned his congregation to steer clear of such investments.

At the end of his sermon, he laid down the principle, which I think is as relevant for us today as the day he spoke it. He says this as the quote. If the profits we make in investing come from business activities that profit or benefit the souls of men, you're clear your employment's good, your gain innocent. But if the profits come from activities that are either sinful in themselves or are natural endless descent of various kinds, then it is to be feared.

You have a sad account to make. And then in the strongest language possible, he warns. Oh, beware, lest God say in that day, these have perished in their iniquity, but their blood do I require at thy hands. Wow. Right. Really, really strong language and just a warning to all of us as we enter into investing that it's more than just the money.

There's a connection to businesses and through businesses and impact in the lives of others. Wow. That is powerful. It's something that if we heard without knowing the source, we might have thought would have been voiced just in the last few years.

So practical to us. And so the big idea here is that faith based investing really started with John Wesley in this sermon. Right.

It did. Yeah. And actually, secular sources agree with this. There's there's a person named Lloyd Kurtz is at the UC Berkeley Institute for Business and Social Impact. And he says the definitive history of social investing has not yet been written. But Chapter one must include a section on John Wesley sermon, the use of money. And so far from this idea of faith based investing being a new novelty that started just a couple of decades ago on the back of social investing. It began as a Christian movement, as Christians have always tried to bring their faith into all their activities in life.

Yeah, that's incredible. Jason, what can we take away from this history lesson for our investing today? How does this apply to our listeners? Yeah, I think, first, I hope that just hearing this history has been an encouragement to those that are listening. The church was the first to recognize the importance of using money in ways that honor God serves neighbor. And so this is our history. And I think that we can be rightly proud of this history. Second, I think that this history reminds us of something really important, the connection of investing to businesses and the impact that it has on the lives of others. You know, today, it's pretty common for us to just put our money into a mutual fund or into a 401k account, not give it a whole lot of thought. And we forget sometimes about the businesses that we're supporting and where the profits are coming from and how that impacts our neighbor and our desire to live out our faith. And the problem today isn't probably so much greed as it was with those early investors in stocks and bonds. But I think what we share in common with their story is just a general lack of awareness of where our money is going and where the profits are coming from. And the business issues are different than they were in John Wesley's day. But still today, we can see there are many problem areas that exist in the world of investing, such as abortion, pornography, tobacco, etc.

The list goes on. So it's important for us to kind of remember that connection to business. And then lastly, I guess I would say that hopefully this history illustrates the value proposition that faith-based investing can offer to us who are seeking to live out our faith in the way we use our money. Faith-based investing gives us a way to save for the future by investing in companies whose products and practices, I believe, are really well aligned with our faith, our beliefs, our values and our ethical commitments in this life. Yes.

Well, that's exactly right. And although, as you said, Jason, the history on faith-based investing goes back hundreds of years, what's exciting today is how many funds, fund families, exchange traded funds, are now available that didn't exist even a few years ago, which allows Christians to reflect their values and their investments through really high quality and, in many cases, award winning funds. Are you encouraged by what you're seeing now?

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a renewed interest in just finding out what are the things in our life that feel disconnected from our faith and examining those more closely. And I think there's been a general awakening to the world of investing and finance where, for a long time, it was something that many of us didn't give a lot of thought. And now, today, we're re-examining and seeking to enter in in a new way into that world.

Well said, Jason. This has been fascinating. Thanks for stopping by with this history lesson. We appreciate you being with us. My pleasure.

Thanks for having me. Our guest today has been Jason Meyer of Eventide. You can find out more about faith-based investing at investeventide.com.

investeventide.com. Your calls are next. 800-525-7000.

Stay with us. So glad to have you with us on MoneyWise Live, taking your calls and questions today on anything financial. Here's the number. 800-525-7000.

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We try to read as many of them as we can on the air. This one comes today from Kate and Jim. Kate and Jim asked, Rob, how can we stay on top of our spending? This is a question that so many people struggle with because frankly, lifestyle is often the chief competitor to financial success and security. We have to live within our means and that's a very biblical idea that we would take what God entrusts to us, we'd live with contentment, we'd live within his provision, which means, Lord, I accept the provision that you have for me today, however much or however little, and I'm not going to compare myself to others.

And I think beginning by addressing what is it that's causing me to overspend. What's at the core of that? Is it spiritual? Is it something that I need to address because I'm comparing myself to others and trying to live a lifestyle I can't afford? Is it greed? Am I trying to make up for some other underlying spiritual issue that's going on in my life?

I think you've got to begin there and ask that question. The second is just an absolute commitment to say, I'm going to live within God's provision. So in order to do that, you've got to start with the most pressing items. I would say giving should come first and then look at what you want to be saving. If you don't have an emergency fund, I would build a certain amount in there. And after you deal with, of course, the taxes that need to be taken out, and if you have any automatic deductions from your payroll for things like insurance, then you have a certain amount left over that's able to be spent on lifestyle. And at that point, that's where you need to build your financial plan, your spending plan. Now, what's key there is to have a discussion before you begin that to say, what is most important to us? What lifestyle is God calling us to? And where do we need to cut back?

Because after you track your expenses, Kate and Jim, for a period of time, probably as much as 90 days, and the MoneyWise app can help with that, you're going to begin to see all the places your money goes and perhaps some areas where you missed or you forgot or you didn't realize you were spending that much. And at that point, you've got to decide what are we going to trim? How are we going to dial back our lifestyle to live within our means? And what budget is going to support that so that we can allow money to help us accomplish what's most important to us, what really are at the core of our values? And when you do that, the plan that comes out of that, I promise, will be an instrument of peace in your marriage and will drive you toward what God has for you in the days ahead.

So give it a shot. Make it a matter of prayer. Talk about your values.

Do the hard work of tracking and then trimming and building that plan that works for you so you can live within your means and accomplish the goals that you believe God has set out for you. Let us know how it goes, Kate and Jim, and thank you for your email. All right, we want to take your calls today. Again, the number 800-525-7000. We're going to begin today in Ohio.

Preston, thank you for your call. Go right ahead. Hey, so I was kind of wondering, I've had a budget. I've been starting and last month, you know, I was trying to put like 500 to 600 just for all my food, produce, and like cell phone. I still live with my parents. You know, I'm 22, but my friend, he needed help and I kind of like gave him a lot of money out of that budget. And I was wondering, is that the same as like helping someone financially? Is that the same as tithing to the church? Because I kind of didn't tithe as much as I wanted to, but I was kind of financially trying to help a friend out.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I appreciate that, Preston. Clearly, you want to honor the Lord with your finances. You're obviously a generous guy trying to help out those in need around you. That's a good thing. The Lord wants your heart.

He doesn't need your money, right? But at the same time, we recognize that God's plan A is the local church. Now, we see clearly the tithe throughout the Old Testament. It actually preceded the law with Melchizedek and the spoils of, you know, war that was going on then.

We see it affirmed and acknowledged by Jesus in the New Testament, but clearly the law of Moses was replaced with the law of Christ. We don't want to be legalistic about it. We want to give joyfully and we want to give us an act of worship. I believe, though, systematic giving is the place to start. I believe we should begin with the local church.

And I would say that if the tithe is no longer the absolute standard for the Christian because it was replaced with the New Covenant, in every case, Jesus upped the ante. So I think we need to be thinking in terms of how can I order my finances so I can experience the joy of giving and beginning systematically with supporting the work of the local church because that was God's plan and design. Now, what is that amount? Where do you start?

What do you build into your budget? Well, the word tithe means a tenth. I think that's a great place to start. Randy Alcorn, the author, calls that the training wheels of giving. But I think the key is to start somewhere and build a systematic amount that you begin to send to the local church into your budget. And then as the Lord leads, perhaps you begin to increase that over time. And as other needs present themselves, give there as well. But the key is you've got to order your finances in such a way that you have the ability to do that. Because if you're living beyond your means, when the Holy Spirit pricks your heart and you see a friend or a neighbor in need, you don't have the opportunity to help because you're funding perhaps debt or other things. So I would say, yes, start with the local church. Giving sacrificially is great.

I don't think it's a replacement for it. But at the end of the day, I would just make it a matter of prayer, allow the Lord to lead you, make that your priority, and then give generously. And over time, God's going to give you the blessing to see how participating in his activity is a wonderful thing. And it's only a matter of time before you reorder your finances. We'll be right back. Thanks for tuning into MoneyWise Live, where we mind the scriptures and apply God's wisdom to your financial life. What's on your mind today? What would you like to talk about related to your finances? Is it saving or debt? Is it improving your credit score?

Maybe it's saving for the long term, looking toward retirement. Whatever's on your mind, we'd love to hear from you. We have some lines open today. Here's the number. 800-525-7000. 800-525-7000. Let's go back to the phone to Ohio. Michael, thank you for your call today, sir. How can we help you? Yes.

Thank you so much for taking my call. My question is about my retirement accounts. I am 21 years old and I was blessed to be put in a well-paying position when I was 19. The first thing that I did is I opened up a Roth IRA and I started contributing monthly to it. So I have a little over $13,000 in the BQN PX fund and then I have a company-funded simple IRA with about 6,000.

70% is in the Growth Fund of America and 30% is in Fundamental Investors. I am getting bombarded with emails saying that I should either hire a financial advisor or a robo financial advisor. And my initial plan was to just keep funding these without ever needing to touch them again. So I'm just wondering if that's a wise move or if I should have someone either actively or semi-actively manage it for me. Yeah.

Well, I think that's entirely up to you as to whether you have the ability to manage this yourself, you have the expertise, the time to put into it. Michael, what would you say is the total of the balances that you have here when you put it all together? Sure.

I have about $15,000 in my Robinhood account, about $6,000 in my company-funded IRA, and then about $14,000 in my Roth IRA. Okay. Very good.

Yeah. So I think at this point, you're going to have trouble with the total investable assets you have finding someone to purely delegate this to. So often we would think about a registered investment advisor or an investment professional taking over active management on a discretionary basis, meaning he or she, based on your goals and objectives and risk tolerance and all the discovery that's done, would implement an investment strategy and take responsibility for making those buy and sell decisions. You know, most often that begins to happen around $100,000 in investable assets and up, and you would pay a fee, a percentage of assets under management for that service.

Often below that, below $75,000, certainly below $50,000, that's where either you selecting your own mutual funds by your own research or using some third party like soundmindinvesting.org where they list mutual funds for different strategies based on what you're trying to accomplish and do a lot of that research for you, but you're still making those directed decisions or a robo advisor can be very effective. Again, you're going to capture the broad moves of the market with an index ETF strategy that's low cost and can be very effective. But I think the key is there's nothing that says you have to have an advisor, especially at the place you're at.

You're young. You've got plenty of time on your side. As long as you pick high quality mutual funds with a good track record, you have good diversification.

And here's the key. You have the time and the interest in doing it and overseeing it yourself. There's nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't be persuaded by anybody that you absolutely have to have an investment advisor. I would perhaps be a little concerned if you said I want to use individual stocks as opposed to mutual funds because often that's going to take a lot more kind of hands on active management. You have the tendency to get highly concentrated in just a couple of companies and you could see big swings in the value of the portfolio based on the performance of a particular company quarter to quarter. So a mutual friends fund strategy is a much better one if you are going to do it yourself. But give me your thoughts on what I've shared.

Sure. Well, to briefly touch on Robin Hood, I got in in March 2020 and put in about six thousand dollars. And now I have about 15. I put it into roughly 15 stocks, a large one being Penn National Gaming. I bought in about seven dollars a share. I sold about 100 actually accidentally.

But that's a story for another time. Mainly, however, my retirement goals are to do the mutual funds. But I just wasn't sure if I really should have this actively managed or if I should buy into another fund in my Roth IRA because I have all 14,001 funds. Yeah. And what is the focus of that fund? What's the strategy?

I would like to be technically retired by the time I'm 62, but still working in ministry. Yeah. But is that a very aggressive fund or is it more diversified?

What's this? Yeah, it's a little bit more diversified. It's a large cap fund. It has gotten about a little over 30 percent ROI just this year alone. Yeah. Yeah.

OK. Well, here's the thing. I mean, if it's done well for you again, you know, the amount of money you have, you know, it's basically use a mutual fund strategy like you are. I wouldn't focus on a particular sector like gaming. I'd stay much more broadly diversified. As long as you're picking high quality mutual funds that have the right, you know, investment allocation for your age, which it sounds like you have a stock centered portfolio, which is where you should be.

You know, that's a good thing. At some point, when you get up over one hundred thousand dollars or more, I would consider using a professional money manager, somebody who has the time and the expertise to make these buy and sell decisions for you. But I think in the meantime, again, if you're in high quality funds that are right in terms of their asset mix for you, that's a that's a great thing. If you wanted some other ideas to put alongside that, I'd check out soundmindinvesting.org, the Soundmind Investing newsletter, where they will use a mutual fund strategy and give you some other recommendations, perhaps to go along with that. But I think in the meantime, unless you just really were compelled with a robo advisor strategy where you could be completely passive, I think what you're doing is just fine as long as you stay properly diversified.

Michael, kudos to you for being intentional at a young age to get money growing for the future. We appreciate your call today very much. To Indiana, Salwin. Did I say that right? Yes.

Great. How can I help you, sir? Hi, thank you for taking my call and may the Lord bless you all. I have two questions for you. One of them is where does the Bible say we have to give tithes in the New Testament?

I know it's in Old Testament, but where is it in the New Testament? Because I know it's talking about the cheerful giver, whatever someone can give. And the second question is, you were talking about 15 or 20 minutes ago, someone about to give to the local church, someone like when I give. So if someone doesn't have a local church, like, is it okay, his money or the money that if I want to give that money is okay to give to the needy people, help someone, or I have to give to the church while I don't have local church?

Yes. Yeah, that's a great question. And I would again go back to this idea that God owns it all. And the question we all have to ask ourselves and ultimately answer is how much of God's money do we want to keep?

What should we use for our lifestyle and what should we be hanging on to to save for the future? Which then as a part of that question, we're answering how much of God's money do we want to put into circulation in the kingdom? And I think that's really key that we all answer that question. We recognize, I mean, of course, Malachi 3 in the Old Testament bring the whole tithe into the storehouse and then throughout Acts and the New Testament church, we see the body of believers supporting the work of the local church and those that were serving in the church.

So clearly that's modeled for us. So I think it's between you and the Lord. I would start there. But if you don't have a local church right now, I would say I think it's important for you to find one so you can be in fellowship with other believers and have corporate worship. But until that time, you give as the Lord leads. And Salwin, we appreciate your call. More to come after this 800-525-7000. Thanks for joining us today on MoneyWise Live. Delighted to have you along with us today.

This is where God's word intersects with your financial life. What's on your mind today? What would you like to chat about? We'd love to hear from you. In fact, we've got four lines open for your call at this moment. 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. You know, we started out today by talking about faith-based investing, a fascinating look back at the beginning, the origins of faith-based investing, which really interesting to see all the way back to Columbus. The church being involved in investments and thinking about the role that we have as owners and companies to align our values with our investments. If you'd like to know more about how to do that, connect with a Certified Kingdom advisor and ask them how you can pursue faith-based investing in your portfolio. If you'd like to find a CKA in your area, just head to our website, MoneyWiseLive.org.

Click find a CKA and you can search by zip code. Again, lines are open 800-525-7000. Next to Tennessee, Sherry, thank you for holding. How can we help you? Hello.

Thank you for taking my call. I am approaching retirement age. I'm getting closer and closer every year. And my lovely husband is already retired. But I want to know if it's best to keep up with our Roth IRA that we have got now. Continue putting money into it and just disregarding the simple IRA and just let it sit there. Or if we need to continue to put money in the simple IRA as well as the Roth IRA. Yeah.

Great question, Sherry. And how long did you say you are out from retirement based on what you know today? Well, I am soon to be 61, so I will, my retirement age is 67.

But I don't ever plan on completely quitting work. Yes. Okay.

Very good. You know, as you look at the opportunity to give, or excuse me, to make contributions to a Roth IRA versus a simple IRA, you are really just talking about, number one, where are we in relation to our ultimate goal for savings, for retirement savings, to fund your lifestyle once you are no longer working. And as you said, you want to continue to work as long as you can, as long as the Lord allows you to do so from a health standpoint.

And that's great. Because that's going to minimize the need you have to offset other income sources like, let's say, Social Security with assets that you've built up over time that you can convert into an income stream. So we don't want to just save for saving sake.

We want to have a goal. And that really requires you to do some retirement planning. I would say with a competent financial planner who can really help you look at what lifestyle do you want to lead in retirement? What will your debt picture look like?

You know, what income sources will you have? And what savings goal should you set out for all collectively of your retirement accounts? And then you can decide, well, maybe we're already on track and we can reduce what we're putting away and perhaps direct some of that into more giving.

Or maybe you're not quite there yet and you want to just continue to do as much as you can. Then the question is what type of account is best? And clearly a tax deferred or a tax free environment is ideal for saving for retirement. The question is with the simple, you're going to get the tax deduction now. So you get the immediate tax benefit. And then when you pull it out in retirement, you're going to have to pay ordinary income tax. Whereas the Roth, you pay the tax now. And when you pull it out, you get it tax free on any gains. One of the benefits you may experience here with the Roth is if you already have a considerable amount in simple IRA, traditional IRA, 401Ks, things like that that are tax deferred where you're going to have to pay income tax at withdrawal, continuing to fund that Roth now gives you two benefits. Number one is if when you reach retirement age, let's say 67 or even 70 or beyond, you're going to need to pull this money out or a portion of it annually. We may be in a much higher tax code then.

I mean, clearly the direction, at least based on what's being talked about in Washington, is the tax rates are headed higher. So if that's the case, you could get a benefit by paying the tax now, funding that Roth IRA, and then being able to pull it out tax free in retirement. The second benefit is there's no required minimum distribution. So if you do continue to work for a considerable length of time, as you described, you could let that money continue to grow without the government saying you've got to start pulling it out as a required minimum distribution because that doesn't apply to a Roth IRA.

So I think, you know, apart from some more detailed planning, which is always a good idea with a competent professional, I think one of the benefits of choosing the Roth over the simple are those two reasons I mentioned, the prospect of higher taxes down the road and no RMD. Do you follow that? Oh, yes.

I like the fact that there's no RMD. Okay. Yeah, good. Well, that's certainly one of the benefits of the Roth. So perhaps that's where you prioritize your contributions moving forward.

And then if you have the ability to do more than that, you could add some more to the simple. We appreciate you listening, Sherry. Thank you for your call from Tennessee today. And may the Lord bless you. To Post Falls, Idaho, KMBI Harry, thank you for your call. How can I help you?

You're welcome. Yeah, I've been blessed at that stage of life where we're approaching retirement and everything's pretty well taken care of, emergency funds and so on. So if the carpet gets pulled out, you know, we can get along okay. We're within about two months of being in zero balance on our home and all other bills.

But I'm one that I'm having difficulty with moss growing on the on the trees, so to speak. And I appreciate an opinion on doing a reverse mortgage and using that to purchase additional property. I've done the you know, I can purchase, for example, a condo for two hundred thousand dollars that the return on that on a monthly basis would exceed a fair amount. The depreciation or the interest, if you would, on sharing the equity in our existing home.

You know, what comes to my mind is, you know, the talents of continuing to use it so we can continue to give. But, you know, is that something one can consider or just call it a day and walk away safe? Yeah, yeah, I hear you with that. You know, I don't love the idea in this stage of life, especially where you're at being completely unencumbered and having your lifestyle at a minimum and just living with a lot of flexibility. I don't like the idea of you taking out a big loan, whether that's through a lump sum reverse mortgage with 60 percent of the value of the home or, you know, just taking, you know, another type of more traditional mortgage that you would then have to service out of the income from that second property.

I don't love that idea in this stage of life. I'd rather see, especially with real estate prices where they are right now, you know, you doing any kind of real estate investing, which I don't have a problem with, but without significant amounts of debt, especially when that debt is going to go against your primary residence. I'd rather see you stay free and clear, start saving. And if you can build up a down payment, then perhaps consider borrowing against that investment property specifically with a plan to service the debt and throw off some cash flow and build equity over time. But using your primary residence in the place where you are now to do that and to kind of create this other potential income stream over time and other investments, I just don't like that idea.

I'd rather see you keep your primary residence free and clear. Does that make sense, though? Oh, yeah. Yep.

That makes as much sense. I just, you know, I'm fighting with the sitting on it, living in it. And yes, of course, I'm tied to inflation to where, you know, as inflation takes it up and, you know, I've lived long enough that it'll, it'll come back down, but it'll go up higher than what it is now, you know, at some point, 10, 12, 15 years. Yeah, but I think the key here is using debt against your primary residence to buy into an investment property in a housing market that is considerably overvalued.

I mean, at least based on national estimates, 6%, depending on what pocket of the country you're in, it could be even more than that. I think that's where I have some hesitation. I'd rather see you keep your home free and clear and try to fund additional investments out of cash flow over time. But pray about it.

Make a good decision. Harry, we appreciate you checking in with us, though. We're going to finish today in Florida. Is it Katrina? Is that right? Yes, sir.

My name is Katrina. Thank you so very much. I extend my gratitude for you for accepting my phone call. I have a complicated question.

It's kind of a loaded question. Okay, I've got to give you a fair warning, though, on the front end. I've got about a little less than two minutes, so try to make it brief, and if we need to extend off the air, we can. Okay, if I have money, I can't outgive God. I can give my last penny no matter how much it is to my missions. And if I have a disability check, I have nothing to worry about because God already took care of it today, yesterday, and tomorrow. He's the giver.

He's the author of every penny that each person has. He's already taking care of his children, and he's coming quickly. Everyone needs to get ready. It's soon, you all. Please wake up.

Please. Everything that you own is not yours. It's His. Yes. Well, that's right. And you know what? That's really the basis, and this is a great place to end today.

I'm so glad you called. Because that's the basis upon which everything we talk about on this program is built. God owns it all. The earth is the Lord and everything in it.

The cattle on a thousand hills, it's all His. And by God's grace, He provides for us, and He entrusts to us, each to His own. And we're charged with being found faithful with that. And I couldn't agree more that we should be generous. We should start with giving.

You know, we were created in the image of God, and here's the thing. He's the ultimate giver, Katrina. So I like to say we're most like Him when we're giving because we're image bearers of the Father who is ultimate in His giving. So hold everything loosely, give generously, and live with contentment, freedom, and joy.

And absolutely, we need to be ready, which means we need to place our trust in Jesus as our salvation and our Savior. And we appreciate that reminder today. Folks, thanks for being along with us today for MoneyWise Live.

MoneyWise Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and MoneyWise Media. I want to say thank you to Deb Solomon, Robert Sutherland, Rich Rossel, Amy Rios, and Eric who was answering our phone calls today. We appreciate that. Thank you for being here. Hope you'll come back and join us tomorrow. I'll be back, and we'll look forward to seeing you then. May the Lord bless you. Bye bye.