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History of Faith-Based Investing

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore
The Truth Network Radio
June 29, 2021 8:03 am

History of Faith-Based Investing

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore

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June 29, 2021 8:03 am

1 Corinthians 10:31 sets a high bar for how Christians are to act in this world. It reads, “Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”  And that “all” certainly includes how we invest. On the next MoneyWise Live, host Rob West welcomes Jason Myhre to talk about the history of faith-based investing. Then Rob will take your calls and questions on the financial matters you’d like to discuss. That’s MoneyWise Live—where biblical wisdom meets today’s financial decisions, weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.

Rob West and Steve Moore
Rob West and Steve Moore
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Listener told me a funny story the other day. He had bought one of those fancy new exercise bikes and for him. It was without a doubt a very special tool to help them get healthier. The problem was three days went by and then for and he'd yet to use the bike and then on night five. He sitting at the kitchen table and he looks down at himself, and he couldn't help but just laughed because there he was wearing the exercise T-shirt that came with the bike and he was eating to corndogs. Hi, it's Doug Hastings with Moody radio and I think we'd all agree having a special tool only matters if we use it to our benefit and I love you guys to learn about my friends at United faith mortgage a very unique faith focused mortgage team with an advantageous tool just for you to see United faith mortgage is an arm of a bigger company who is a direct lender, which means they get to use their own money and make their own decisions is no middleman and often this advantage allows them to get you a better rate on your refinance or your new home purchase can save you monthly and lifelong money. So I encourage you check them out. United faith mortgage United faith mortgage is a DBA of United mortgage Corp. 25 Millville Park Rd., Melville, NY. Licensed mortgage banker for licensing information, go to an MLS consumer corporate MLS number 1330. Equal housing lender not licensed in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Massachusetts, North Dakota, South Dakota and Utah. First Corinthians 1031 sets a high bar for how Christians are to act in this world. It reads, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do all to the glory of God. I am Rob West afford to do all for God's glory. That certainly includes how we invest. Jason Meyer joins us today to talk about the history of faith-based investing spoiler alert goes back further than you think that it's all your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.

This is moneywise live biblical wisdom meets today's financial decisions. Our guest Jason Myers with Eventide and underwriter of this program. Eventide is also a very special investment company because it's entire focuses on faith-based investing in Jason.

Always great to have you back on the program again, Jason. We often think that faith-based investing is a relatively new invention Christians of actually been challenged by this for a long time, so perhaps take us back.

Give us a bit of a history lesson we can think about faith-based about something new. Faith-based conducting mutual fund began in the 1990s, the part of a larger story about Auckland. I think what actually started earlier socially responsible and nothing started with their correspondent 1970, we tend to think about the story at the starting of the secular movement in the 1970s with Christian joining in later and concreting a Christian version of socially responsible. Nothing that that the value and ethical commitments, but this the real story is actually much much more interesting and actually began hundreds of years earlier as a Christian movement and so can tell it right you really need to put your mind back in the old world and think about how modern investing.dart way back to the 1400s. The way that businesses got financing from the rulers of society from the aristocracy and so Christopher Columbus is actually an example of this. Columbus wanted to start a for-profit shipping business and he needed capital and he ultimately got the capital from the rulers of Spain from Ferdinand and Isabella that's fascinating about Columbus that we don't tend to remember that he was starting a business and needed investors and I imagine that getting financing from kings and queens back in that day wasn't easy was it right. The problem with the arrangement. You can imagine what that wanted Dr. had to put up all the capital there all the risk of failure and really only kings and queens had a kind of capital and capacity correct info. Obtaining financing the third very difficult back in the day and Columbus is actually an illustration of the difficulties a lot of forget the club had to go all over Europe looking for doctors and he heard a lot of know before he finally heard that yet from pain. He was turned down in Italy and France and England back in the day had a tough time getting started because of that capital and risk constraint is the change that all changed in the 1500s.

With the invention of drumroll the stock and the bond in modern investing live was born in in 1515 02 the British India company and the Dutch East India Company before shipping companies apply Columbus. They got their start and rate the capital that they needed by issuing Dr. Martin ordinary investors.

First, never been done and this was a significant advance for business because now instead of needing one person to apply capital the barrel that Ralph, you could break out into these many tiny pieces of meeting a king and queen to get you millions of dollars into defined many smaller doctors who are willing to give you say $100 exactly how to deal with those first companies that use stocks and bonds.

It was a huge success. The British India Company and got defendant company became wildly acceptable and their investors enjoyed great riches as a result you an example of that, the Dutch East India Company 102 companies grew in value to $8.2 trillion in today's money wall, making it far and away the most successful company to have ever existed and the perspective they were more than four times the whole company. Apple is today which a company that today you can probably get what happened well is your candle will say that for right after the break and will talk about how the church responded to this new world of investing Jason Myers Eventide is with us much more to come. Just around the corner back to moneywise live for so glad to have you along with us today. Jason Meyer joins us today of Eventide with a history lesson on faith-based investing. Although the first of faith-based investing mutual fund was launched in the 1990s.

The story around faith-based investing investing to make a social impact and ultimately a kingdom impact started much earlier. In fact, hundreds of years earlier as a Christian movement just before the break, I Jason Meyer was giving us an example of how Christopher Columbus was really an example of this. Wanting to start a for-profit shipping company and needing capital that resulted in raising money through stocks and bonds which Jason as you said was wildly successful. The British India Company and Dutch East India Company were examples of this and I think you said the Dutch East India Company grew in value to in today's dollars, 8.2 trillion W which is unbelievable. And yeah, I can only imagine that would follow. That was incredible greed right you get people God $in their eyes.

They observed how many people made a fortune off of the first stock from the shipping company that everyone wanted in on the action jumping into investing matching up every new stocking behind that certification here. The really important point in the history of faith. They investing the attention of investors turned to the profit making potential of investing people started thinking left and left about the kinds of differences but they were supporting. It became all about that profit making potential. I can only imagine Jason how did the church responded this new world of investing right so will needed time. Look for someone to come along and to bring ethical vision for the practice of investing and that would do that is a man named John Wesley John Wesley with a Christian minister in England in the 1700s, and you might recommend that name he started what today we call the method church of the Methodist denomination of Christianity thought better, started by Leslie and Wesley with observing the greed and lack of discernment that were taking place in the ducting in his day and decided to speak into it in a way that he knew how much was by preaching a sermon to his congregation. The sermon was entitled the use of money that was in 1759 is a very practical sermon that spoke in the new world of modern investing fascinating synergistic bit that serve six-year sure sermon actually still have a lot of relevance for today so this quote from the firm and he said we are to gain all we can.

But without hurting our neighbor felt he was not opposed to making money again all we can.

But make sure that were earning our money from activities that are benefiting our neighbor so you for reminding appear that there's something on the other end of investing is not to for-profit businesses. On the other hand, through the impact the lives of our neighbors, and indeed the world, and he got really pathetic in the Thurman describing many of the businesses that existed in his day that he felt were predicated on harming others and he warns the congregation to hear clear of such investment at the end of his sermon, he laid down the principle which I think it is relevant for us today at the date okay. He felt that the quote, the profits we make in investing come from business activities that profit or benefit.

This old man clear your employment good. Your gain in effect by the prophet come from activities that are either simple in themselves or our natural inlet defendant, various kinds that needed to be feared. You have a account to make tenant in the strongest language possible. He warns Bowlby where let God stay in the day, the parish and their iniquity, but their blood you are required to finance our rate really strong language and just a warning to all about.

As we enter into investing more than just the money, the connection to businesses and through businesses and impact in the lives of others that is powerful. It's something that we heard without knowing the source we might've thought would've been voiced just FEW years is so practical to us and so the big idea here is that faith-based investing really started with John Wesley. In this sermon right actually agree with Lloyd. Kurt, UC Berkeley, and 15 for business and social impact in the definitive history of social ducting have not yet been written by chapter wine must include a section on John Wesley Thurman. The use of money and so far from this idea of faith-based investing. Being a new novelty started up a couple decades ago on the back of social and ducting. It began at the Christian movement as Christians have always tried to bring their faith into all activities in life.

That's incredible's Jason. What can we take away from this history lesson for our investing today. How does this apply to your listeners. Yeah, I think. I hope that appearing this history has been an encouragement to those that are listening. The church was the first to recognize the importance of using money and way that honors God first neighbor and for her history and I think that we can be rightly proud of this history. I think that the history mind that the something really important. The connection of investing to benefit and the impact that it have on the lives of others you know today it's pretty common for just put our money into mutual fines or into a 401(k) account not given a lot of thought and we forget sometimes about the businesses that were supporting and where soffits are coming from and how that impacts our neighbor and our desire to live out our faith and the problem today. If it is probably so much greed and that was with the early investors in stocks and bonds, but I think what we share in common with their story is a general lack of awareness of where our money filleting, and when the profits are coming from and the business issue are different than they were in John Buckley today but still today. We think the there are many problem areas in the world of investing such as abortion and pornography, tobacco, etc. so it's important for us to remember that connection about that and then lastly, I guess I would say that hopefully this history illustrate the value proposition that faith-based investing can offer to answer thinking without her faith in the way we use our money, faith-based investing, give us a way to save for the future by investing in companies whose product impact that I believe are really well aligned with our faith beliefs are values that are ethical commitments in this life is exactly right. And although, as you said Jason. The history on faith-based investing goes back hundreds of years. What's exciting today is how many funds fund families exchange traded funds are now available.

The didn't exist. Even a few years ago which allows Christians to reflect their values and their investments through really high quality and in many cases, award-winning funds are you encouraged by what you're seeing now. Yeah, absolutely.

I think there is a renewed interest in finding out what things are like that, feel disconnected from our faith in examining the more closely I think there's been a general awakening to the world of investing in finding out where for a long time. It was something that that many lift and give a lot of thought and now today were re-examining and then seeking to enter and in a new way that world well said Jason, this is been fascinating.

Thanks for stopping by. With this history lesson.

We appreciate you being with us for having Jason Meyer of Eventide.

You can find out more about faith-based investing your calls next. 800-525-7000 stay with us. When the sun moneywise.

Live your calls and questions today on anything financial here's number 800-525-7000 805 two 5008 as we head toward the end of the month. It's a great opportunity for me to remind you that moneywise media in this radio program is entirely listener supported.

We can do what we do without your generous contribution. So, would you prayerfully consider supporting our work here if you consider yourself a part of the moneywise family. We would welcome your generous donation. You can do that quickly, easily and securely when you head over to our website moneywise just click the donate button again moneywise click donate and thank you in advance.

Looking forward hearing from you on any financial topic again. Lines are open at 800-525-7000 before we begin with our phone calls today.

Let me take an email you can send us an email with questions that that we try to read as many of them as we can on the Aaron.

This one comes today from Kate and Jim at Kate and Jim ask Rob how can we stay on top of our spending and you know this is a question that so many people struggle with because, frankly, lifestyle is often the chief competitor to financial success and security, we have to live within our means. And that's a very biblical idea that we would take what God entrusted to us. We live with contentment. We live within his provision which means Lord I accept the provision that you have for me today however much or however little, and I'm not gonna compare myself to others and I think beginning by addressing what is it that's causing me to overspend up what's at the core of that.

Is it spiritual is it something that I need to address because I'm comparing myself to others and trying to live the lifestyle I can afford is it read in my trying to make up for some other underlying spiritual issue that's going on in my life. I think you've got to begin there and ask that question. The second is just an absolute commitment to say I'm gonna live within God's provision. So in order to do that, you've got to start with the most pressing items I would say giving should come first and then look at what you want to be saving.

If you don't have an emergency fund. I would build a certain amount in there and after you deal with. Of course the taxes that need to be taken out and if you have any automatic deductions from your payroll for things like insurance, then you have a certain amount left over. That's able to be spent on lifestyle and at that point that's where you need to build your financial plan your spending plan. What's key there is to have a discussion before you begin that to say what is most important to us what lifestyle is God calling us to and where do we need to cut back because after you track your expenses Kate and Jim for a period of time, probably as much as 90 days in the moneywise app can help with that. You're going to begin to see all the places your money goes and perhaps some areas where you missed story you forgot to read and realize you were spending that much.

And at that point, you've got to decide what are we going to trim how are we gonna dial back her lifestyle to live within our means and what budget is going to support that so that we can allow money to help us accomplish what's most important to us what really are at the core of our values and when you do that the plan that comes out of that I promise will be an instrument of peace in your marriage, it will drive you toward what God has for you in the days ahead. So give it a shot. Make it a matter of prayer. Talk about your values.

Do the hard work of tracking and then trimming and building that plan that works for you so you can live within your means and accomplish the goals that you believe God has set out for you.

Let us know how it goes. Kate and Jim and thank you for your email.

I want to take your calls today. Again, the number 800-525-7000 were to begin today in Ohio.

Preston, thank you for your call. The redhead so I was wondering I had budget. I think starting and Lachman.

You know how it like 500 hundred are all my might like felt like my parent by needed help and I gave him a lot of money out of that budget and I was wondering if that name at Lake helping financially and the church. It high that much as I wanted you, but I would financially right now.

I appreciate that person clearly want to honor the Lord with your finances. You're obviously a generous guy trying to help out those in need around you.

That's a good thing the Lord want your heart. He doesn't need your money right but at the same time, we recognize that God's plan a is the local church. Now we see clearly the ties throughout the Old Testament it actually preceded the law with Melchizedek and the spoils of your war that was going on. Then we see it affirmed and acknowledged by Jesus in the New Testament, but clearly the law of Moses was replaced with the law of Christ. We don't want to be legalistic about it. We want to give joyfully and we want to give as an act of worship.

I believe those systematic giving is the place to start. I believe we should begin with the local church and I would say that if the tide is no longer the absolute standard for the Christian because the was replaced with the new covenant in every case, Jesus up the ante so I think we need to be thinking in terms of how can I order my finances so I can experience the joy of giving and beginning systematically with supporting the work of the local church because that was God's plan and design.

Now what is that amount. Where do you start what you build into your budget will the word tide means attempt.

I think that's a great place to start, Randy Alcorn, the author calls that the training wheels of giving, but I think the key is to start somewhere and build a systematic amount that you begin to send to the local church into your budget and then as the Lord leads perhaps you begin to increase that over time and as other needs present themselves give their as well.

But the key is you've got order your finances in such a way that you have the ability to do that because of your living beyond your means. When the Holy Spirit preacher harden you see a friend or a neighbor in need. You don't have the opportunity to help because your funding, perhaps death, or other things. So I would say yes. Start with the local church, giving sacrificially is great.

I don't think it's a replacement for it but at the end of the day.

I would just make it a matter of prayer, allow the Lord to lead, you make that your priority and then give generously and over time God to give you the blessing to see how participating in his activity is a wonderful thing is only a matter time for turning in the moneywise live. We mind the Scriptures and apply God's wisdom to your financial life.

What's on your mind today.

What would you like to talk about related to your finances, saving that improving your credit score. Maybe it's saving for the long term, looking toward retirement whatever's on your mind. We'd love to hear from you. We have some lines open today. Here's the number 800-525-7000 800-525-7000. Let's go back to the phones to Ohio, Michael, thank you for your call today sir, how can you yes thank you for taking my call. My question is about my retirement account. I 21 years old but well-paying.

The first thing that I did as I opened up a rock start getting out a little over $13,000 EQ MPX fund and that I might have a company funded simple IRA with about 6070% of the growth fund of America, 30%. I am getting barred emails saying that I should either hire visor or a robot visor and my initial plan was to just finding out again, wondering why is Barb. I should have some either actively or semi-actively working. That's entirely up to you as to whether you have the ability to manage this yourself.

You have the expertise the time to put into it. Michael what would you say is the total of the balances that you have here when you put it all together.

I have about 15,000 6000 company about 14,000 rock very good so I think you know at this point, you're going to have trouble with the total investable assets you have finding someone to purely delegate this to. So often we would think about a registered investment advisor or an investment professional taking over active management on a discretionary basis, meaning here. She based on your goals and objectives and risk tolerance.

All the discovery that stun would implement an investment strategy and take responsibility for making those buy and sell decisions you most often that begins to happen around 100,000 investable assets and up and you would pay a fee or percentage of assets under management for that service often below that below 75,000 certainly below 50,000. That's where either you selecting your own mutual funds by your own researcher using guilt something third-party like sound mind where they list mutual funds for different strategies based on what you're trying to accomplish and do a lot of that research for you, but you're still making those directed decisions or a Robo advisor can be very effective. Again, you're gonna capture the broad moves of the market with an index ETF strategy that's low cost and can be very effective but I think the key is there's nothing that says you have to have an advisor, especially the place you're at your young you've got some new plenty of time on your side as long as you pick high quality mutual funds with a good track record. You have good diversification and here's the key. You have the time and the interest in doing it and overseeing yourself. There's nothing wrong with that, I wouldn't be persuaded by anybody that you absolutely have to have an investment advisor. I would perhaps be a little concerted you said, I will use individual stocks as opposed mutual funds because often that's gonna take a lot more work on a hands-on active management. You have the tendency to get highly concentrated in just a couple of companies and you could see big swings in the value of the portfolio based on the performance of a particular company, quarter to quarter so mutual friends fund strategy is is a much better one. If you are going to do it yourself, but give me your thoughts on what I shared sure well Robin I got March 20, $26,000 and now I have about stocks a large $27 share actually accident.

Mainly, however my retirement goals are mutual funds, but I wasn't sure I really should have been actively or if I should buy another blind in my Roth IRA because I have all one and what is the focus of that fund which the strategy I would like be technically to still working. Yeah, but is not a very aggressive Thunderbirds. It's more diversified. This large About their ROI. Just as you okay here's the thing, and it's done well for you again. You know the amount of money you have units basically use mutual fund strategy like you are, wouldn't you focus on the particular sector like gaming I'd stay much more broadly diversified closure picking high quality mutual funds that have the rights you know investment allocation for your age, which it sounds like you have a stock centered portfolio which is where you should be no that's a good thing. At some point when you get up over $100,000 or more. I would consider using a professional money manager, somebody has the time and the expertise to make these buy and sell decisions for you, but I think in the meantime again. If you're in high quality funds that are right in terms of their asset mix for you that's a that's a great thing if you wanted some other ideas to put alongside that I check out sound mind the sound mind investing newsletter where they will use a mutual fund strategy and give you some other recommendations, perhaps, to go along with that, but I think in the meantime, unless you just really were compelled with a Robo advisor strategy were you could be completely passive. I think what you're doing is just fine as long as you stay properly diversified.

Michael. Kudos to you for being intentional at a young age to get money grown for the future. We appreciate your call today very much to Indiana so when did I say that right great. How can I help you sir, thank you for taking my call and made a low initial question when the Bible said we have to get a guy and New Testament.

I know I can audition but when it said in the New Testament, but I know that cheerful giver. Whenever someone can give and the second question is you are talking about 15 or 20 minutes ago with someone about to give to the local church and someone like going to get so someone doesn't have a local church like okay money on the money that if I want to give that money is okay to give to the needy people have someone I have to give to the church. While I don't local church yes yeah that's a great question and I would again go back to this idea that God owns it all. The question we all have to ask ourselves, and ultimately answer is how much of God's money. Do we want to keep what should we use for our lifestyle, and what should we be hanging onto the same for the future, which then is a part of that question were answering how much of God's money.

Do we want to put into circulation in the kingdom and I think that's really key that we all answer that question, we recognize them and of course, Malachi 3.

In the Old Testament bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, and then throughout acts in the New Testament church.

We see the body of believers supporting the work of the local church and those that were serving in the church, so clearly that's modeled for us. So I think it's between you and the Lord. I would start there. But if you don't have a local church. Right now I would say I think it's important for you to find once you can be in fellowship with other believers in corporate worship, but until that time you give is the lordly cell and we appreciate your call morning, after this 800-525-7000. Thanks for joining us today and moneywise lie along with us today is where God's word intersects with your financial life with your mind today. What would you like to chat about.

We'd love to hear from you.

In fact, we got four lines open for your call at this moment. 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000 that year we started out today by talking about faith-based investing. A fascinating look back at the beginning, the origins of faith-based investing which really interesting to see all the way back to Columbus. The church being involved in investments in thinking about the role that we have as owners and companies to align our values with our investments. If you'd like to know more about how to do that connect with a certified kingdom advisor and asked them how you can pursue faith-based investing in your portfolio you like to find a CK a in your area to said to our website moneywise click find CK you can search by ZIP Code again.

Lines are open 800-525-7000 next to Tennessee.

Sherry thank you for holding. How can we help you cannot call parking retirement age, I'm getting closer and closer every year and my lovely Randy retired that walking now if it can keep up with Roth IRA we have gotten now continue putting money into it yet and get this regarding the simple IRA and deflated. They are what we need to continue to put Manny and I went out at that Roth IRA.

Yeah, great question Sherry and how long did you say you are out from retirement based on what you know today. Well to be 60 points out how will my retirement age is 67. I don't ever plan out completely? Yes okay very good you know as you look at the opportunity to give or excuse me to make contributions to a Roth IRA versus a simple IRA you're really just talking about number one where are we in relation to our ultimate goal of spore savings for retirement savings to fund your lifestyle. Once you're no longer working and as you said you want to continue to work as long as you can as long as the Lord allows you to do so from a health standpoint and that's great because that's gonna minimize the need you have. To offset other income sources like let's say Social Security with assets that you've built up over time that you can convert into an income stream so we don't want to just save for saving sake. We want to have a goal and that really requires you to do some retirement planning. I would say with a competent financial planner who can really help you look at what lifestyle do you want to lead in retirement.

What we are debt picture look like what income sources will you have and what savings goal should you set out for all collectively of your retirement accounts and then you can decide. Well maybe were already on track and we can reduce what we're putting away, and perhaps direct some of that into more giving or you're not quite there yet and you want to just continue to do as much as you can. Then the question is what type of account is best, and clearly a tax deferred or tax-free environment is ideal for saving for retirement.

The question is with the simple you're going to get the tax deduction now so you get the immediate tax benefit in the when you pull it out in retirement you're going to have to pay ordinary income tax.

Where is the raw if you pay the tax. Now and when you pull it out you get it tax-free on any gains. One of the benefits you may experience Sherry with the Roth is if you arty have a considerable amount in simple IRA traditional IRA 401(k)s, things like that that are tax-deferred, where you can have to pay income tax at withdrawal continuing to fund that Roth now gives you two benefits number one is if when you reach retirement age.

Let's say 67 or even 70 or beyond.

You're going to need to pull this money out or portion of it annually. We may be in a much higher tax code.

Then, I mean clearly the direction, at least based on what's being talked about in Washington is the tax rates are headed higher. So if that's the case, you could get a benefit by paying the tax. Now funding that Roth IRA and then being able to pull out tax-free retirement. The second benefit is there is no required minimum distribution. So if you do continue to work for a considerable length of time as you described, you could let that money continue to grow without the government saying you've gotta start pulling it out as a required minimum distribution because that doesn't apply to a Roth IRA. So I think you apart from some more detailed planning, which is always a good idea with a competent professional. I think one of the benefits of choosing the Roth over the simple are those two reasons I mentioned the prospect of higher taxes down the road and no RMD. Do you follow that. I like that fact that there is no RMD okay yeah good well that's certainly one of the benefits of the raw so perhaps that's where you prioritize your your contributions. Moving forward, and that if you have the ability to do more than that, you can add some more to the simple. We appreciate you listening Sherry thank you for your call from Tennessee today.

May the Lord bless you to post falls Idaho K MBI Harry, thank you for your call. How can I help you where were approaching retirement and everything is pretty well take care of work on on the carpet gets pulled out, you know, we can get along okay or within about two months so zero balance on our old and all other bills but one I'm having difficulty with moss growing on the on the tree, so to speak, appreciate an opinion on doing a reverse mortgage, and using that to purchase additional property. I've done the purchase.

For example a condo or $200,000 about the return on a monthly basis would exceed the fair amount the depreciation or the interest, if you would on sharing the equity in our existing all you my mind is no challenge continuing to use it so we can continue to give you know that some one could consider or just call it a day walk away safe yeah I hear you with that.

You know I don't love the idea in this stage of life, especially where you're at, being completely unencumbered, and having your lifestyle at a minimum, and just living with a lot of flexibility.

I don't like the idea of you taking out a big loan, whether that's through a lump sum reverse mortgage with 60% of the value of the home or you're just taking another type of more traditional mortgage that you would then have to service out of the income from that second property I don't love that idea. In this stage of life. I'd I'd rather see especially with real estate prices where they are right now you know you doing any kind of real estate investing, which I don't have a problem with, but without significant amounts of debt, especially when that dad is going to go against her primary residence. I'd rather see you stay free and clear. Start saving and if you can build up a down payment, then perhaps consider penal borrowing against that investment property specifically with a plan to service the debt and throw off some cash flow and build equity over time, but using your primary residence in the place where you are now to to do that into Canada create this other potential income stream.

Over time, and other investments.

I just don't like that idea rather see you keep your primary residence, free and clear. Does that make sense though I make much sense. I'm fighting with me sitting on it. Living in it. And yes of course I'm tied to inflation, to where Noah's inflation takes about no, I live long enough that it'll come back down, but it'll do a lot higher than what it is now at some point jump 12 years of yeah but I think the key here is using debt against her primary residence to buy into an investment property in a housing market that is considerably overvalued and at least based on national estimates 6% depending on what pocket of the country are in it could be even more than that. I think that's where I have some hesitation. I'd rather see you keep your home free and clear and try to fund additional investments out of cash flow over time, but pray about it make a good decision Harry. We appreciate you checking in with us to finish today in Florida is that Katrina is that right yes thank you Craig well very much I explain my gratitude for you for accepting my phone call. I have a complicated question it, I have a loaded question. Okay, I give you fair warning on the front end.

I got about a little less than two minutes of try to make it brief and I need to okay I have money out give God.

I can get my last penny. No matter how much it is my nation, and if I have a disability check.

I have nothing to worry about because God already took care of it today. Yesterday into tomorrow together. The author and every penny that each person he'd already taking care of his children coming quickly.

Everyone needs to get ready. It will serve you all please wake up please own not sure it's yes well that's right.

And you know it that's really the basis in its this is a great place to end today. I'm so glad you called because that's the basis upon which everything we talk about in this program is built. God owns it all. The earth is the Lord and everything in it. The cattle on a thousand hills. It's all his and by God's grace he provides for us and he entrusted to us each to his own and were charged with being found faithful with that and I couldn't agree more that we should be generous, we should start with giving you know we were created in the image of God. And here's the thing.

He's the ultimate giver Katrina so I like to say were most like him when were giving because we are image bearers of the father who is ultimate in his giving so hold everything loosely give generously and live with contentment, freedom and joy and absolutely we need to be ready. Which means we need to place our trust in Jesus is our salvation and our Savior. We appreciate that reminder today spoke sexually along with us today for moneywise live moneywise live is a partnership between Moody radio and moneywise media to say thank you to Deb Solomon Robert Sutherland Rich arousal Amy Rios and Erica was answering our phone calls today would appreciate that.

Thank you for being here. Hope you come back and join us tomorrow. I'll be back. I will look forward to seeing her flesh

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