Forrest Fenn’s Treasure—Update

This is Doug Hastings, Vice President of Moody Radio, and we're thankful for support from our listeners and businesses like United Faith Mortgage.

Let's call it the couch cushion dash. This is the moment when you need a tip for the pizza man, a few bucks for your kid's lunch, or you can't say no to the sweet eight-year-old and her Thin Mints. But you've got no cash and no other options but to tear apart the house searching for hidden money. It's Ryan from United Faith Mortgage, and it's funny how we can usually find a way to scrounge together a few bucks hidden around our house. Shame on you if it's from your kid's piggy banks.

For many listeners though, there's enough money sitting inside your home to buy a swimming pool full of Thin Mints. Home values have gone up across the country the last few years, leaving many of us with a good chunk of equity tucked inside our homes that we could cash out to use for life. If you'd like us to help, we are United Faith Mortgage. 1 Timothy 6-20 warns us, the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people eager for money have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. Hi, I'm Rob West. A few years ago, we reported on the curious tale of Forrest Fenn's hidden treasure and how hordes of people became obsessed with finding it. Today, I'll give you an update. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is MoneyWise Live. Where biblical wisdom meets today's financial decisions. You know, finding buried treasure has long been a popular theme in books and movies, and these days even on reality TV shows. But in one case, the story continues even after the treasure has been found. Unlike so many tales of buried treasure, the story of Forrest Fenn's lost loot proves to be all too real because it's no longer lost.

Proof of that surfaced about a year ago. If you're unfamiliar with the story, Fenn was an aging amateur archaeologist who reportedly amassed a fortune in gold and jewels while doing, let's call them, controversial explorations in the Southwest. A self-described millionaire, Fenn came under FBI scrutiny once for selling Native American artifacts he claimed to have found in the Four Corners area, but no charges were filed. He did, however, come under heavy criticism for buying and excavating some would say desecrating a Pueblo Indian site in New Mexico, which may have been the source of his treasure. Fenn said he'd hidden a foot square treasure chest stuffed with valuables.

He claimed the chest was loaded with emeralds, diamonds, and gold coins and weighed about 40 pounds. Diagnosed with cancer in 1988, Fenn said he filled the chest with treasure and planned to take it up into the Rockies to die beside it, maybe thinking he could take it with him. Well, it turned out that Fenn survived his brush with cancer and tucked the chest away in his house for 20 years, but when the Great Recession hit in 2008, he decided to bury it in the Rockies and launch what became a massive international treasure hunt.

The reason he did it, Fenn said, was to give hope to people who might have lost their jobs and encourage families to get outside and get some fresh air. He published a poem with clues for finding the treasure and challenged people to go out and look for it. All anyone knew was that it was hidden somewhere in a thousand mile stretch of the Rockies between Santa Fe, New Mexico and the Canadian border. Fenn estimated that some 350,000 people had trekked through the mountains looking for his treasure chest without finding it.

He told no one the location, not even his wife. The fear was that if Fenn died, the secret of the treasure's location would go to the grave with him. To say that people became obsessed with finding the treasure would be an understatement. At least five people died while searching for it, but the effort to find the treasure ended last June when Fenn announced that one man had indeed recovered the hidden chest stuffed with valuables. Fenn lived just long enough to see that happen.

He died a few months later. What many people don't know is that before his death, Fenn had been hit with several lawsuits by disgruntled and angry treasure seekers who claimed that they should have the treasure even though they'd never found it. One of those lawsuits now targets the eventual finder of the treasure.

He tried to remain anonymous, fearing both litigation and physical harm. The plaintiff in that case claims the finder stole his strategy to recover the treasure even though the finder had never heard of the plaintiff. By the way, the treasure finder turned out to be a 32 year old medical student from Michigan. Fenn's family has since weighed in and announced that the man had indeed found the treasure. The finder only revealed his identity when the discovery phase of the lawsuit threatened to expose him.

He apparently had deciphered Fenn's poem he said not by science but by understanding Fenn's emotions. Now, all of this would seem pretty silly if it weren't for the human lives and untold thousands of dollars lost in litigation over something that may have been ill-gotten to begin with. Proverbs 1 19 says, such are the ways of everyone who is greedy for unjust gain.

It takes away the life of its possessors. The Bible doesn't say that searching for buried treasure is a sin, but it does say that the love of money is a sin and obviously risking your life in the sometimes harsh environment of the Rocky Mountains, well, it can be foolish. The Bible does tell us that we must avoid a get-rich-quick mentality. Proverbs 21 5 tells us the plans of the diligent lead to profit as surely as haste leads to poverty. So that's your modern day tale of buried treasure.

We hope you find it a cautionary tale. Your calls are next. 800-525-7000.

800-525-7000. I'm Rob West and this is MoneyWise Live where biblical wisdom meets today's financial decisions. We'll look forward to hearing from you just around the corner.

Stay with us. So glad you've joined us today on MoneyWise Live. We're taking your calls and questions. Here's the number. 800-525-7000. We have lines open. 800-525-7000. Hey, would you like to connect with a MoneyWise coach?

We have them available ready to serve you. These are men and women who have been especially trained to walk alongside you and teaching you biblical principles of handling money, but really, practically speaking, helping you get set up in the MoneyWise app, developing a spending, saving plan, perhaps a debt repayment plan or giving plan. Whatever it is, they'll walk with you over a series of weeks and answer your questions, get you set up and perhaps help you break through what's been holding you back from being the steward of God's resources that you wanted to be. You can take advantage of a MoneyWise coach by heading to our website. It's just one of the many ministries and services we offer here at MoneyWise. It's moneywiselive.org. Click connect with a coach and we'll get you connected very, very soon.

Again, moneywiselive.org. Click connect with a coach. All right, to the phones. 800-525-7000. About five lines open. 800-525-7000.

We're going to begin today in beautiful Colorado Springs, Colorado. Samuel, thank you for your patience and for your call today. How can I help you, sir?

Thank you for taking my call. My question is, I have been with the company for going to 15 years, and I have some company stock. I'm leaving the company, but my question is whether it's okay to leave the company stock with that company, and if I did, would that cost me a lot, the fees and other things? If I don't, what are some of the suggestions to move in the company stock? My next question would be, I'm also thinking about selling 200 shares because the share is about $200. I'm thinking about selling 200 shares to put it on my mortgage to do my mortgage, just pay out some principles because I owe about $61,000. I just want to make sure I pay this as quick as possible. Yeah, very good, Samuel. Well, clearly this is a blessing, and just like any asset that we have, we need to determine how's the best way to use it according to your overall goals and objectives.

Whether that's paying off debt or giving generously, perhaps saving for the future, whatever it might be, and so I think you're asking the right question here. How many total shares did you receive? I have about 600 now. Okay, you have about 600 shares, and you said that the price per share is around $200, is that right?

Yeah, almost, let's say about 193 I look at it today. Okay, all right, so you've got about 115, 120,000, so obviously there's a good bit of money there. Do you have retirement accounts in addition to that, or is this really the extent of your retirement savings? I have 401k with that company, which is close to $300,000 now. Okay, very good, and you'll be contributing to a retirement account in your new job? Yes, my new job, which personally I contribute about 13% of my salary, which I want to even increase in the new job to 15%.

Got it. You know, I think the key here for you is number one, we want to make sure you're not too highly concentrated, and what I mean by that is, you know, if you look at your overall investments, having, you know, what is potentially one fourth of your total investable assets in one company's stock is not properly diversified. You have too much riding on the performance of one particular company, so that would be the first, and I think primary reason to think about in a tax efficient way, and you'd want to check with your tax prepare on this, liquidating that position so you can diversify away from that company's holding.

You know, you just don't want to have too many of your eggs in one basket, and the Bible is very clear about that as well. As to what you would do with the proceeds of that roughly 120,000, I love the idea of you becoming debt-free. You've only got 60,000 left. Again, thinking about the taxes and the most efficient way to do it, if you were to go ahead and pay off that mortgage, if not all at once, you know, very soon over the next year or two, that would put you in a really solid financial position where you're completely unencumbered, you'd create more cash flow, more margin on a monthly basis because you're not paying that mortgage payment, and you know at that point you could plow that back into additional giving or additional savings, and I think you'll be delighted that you have that freedom and flexibility of being completely debt-free. So I'm on board with paying down or paying off the mortgage.

I'm on board with selling this position in a way that makes sense so that you can be properly diversified, and at that point you would want to be looking for the portion that remains to redeploy that and invest it, and if you have the ability to do that on your own, great. If not, you could connect with a certified Kingdom advisor in your area. Does that make sense though, Samuel? Yes, it does.

It does. Thank you very much. Okay, very good. We appreciate your call today. All the best in your new endeavors, and don't hesitate to call us back at some point in the future. This is MoneyWise Live. I'm Rob West taking your calls and questions. Here's the number.

We do have some lines open today. We'd love to hear from you, whatever's on your mind. Are you thinking about paying off your mortgage? Are you wanting to save for the future? Is it how to position your portfolio in light of everything going on around us?

Or maybe it's trying to pay down debt, whatever it might be. We'd love to hear from you. Here's the number, 800-525-7000. Let's head next to Chattanooga, Tennessee. Gary, thank you for your patience.

How can we help you? Yeah, I'm having to sell my house and move into an apartment, not to my own choosing, due to a lot of hard circumstance. But at any rate, I can't find a house to buy. There are some out there, but I have to move.

I can't stay in my house. So what I'm asking is, where would be a good place to, and seeing as how I got to rent, I want a good place to put my money or where, in what kind of an account or whatever. But some of it to be liquid as well, so if I could get to it, pay off, well, my car loan and that sort of thing. And the total amount, I say, I don't know exactly, but it's probably around 100 and probably 169,000 I will have. And the only thing I owe for is my truck. Okay, I see. Very good. Gary, what do you think perhaps would be the timing on you redeploying these funds, whether that's into a home that you would buy or something else?

Would it be less than five years? Yeah, oh yes. I'm going to be purchasing a home as soon as one is available that I like. It's just hard in my area.

There's just hardly nothing better. Yes, yeah. No, that makes sense. Well, I like the idea when you don't have something and it's not clear where you need to go next of you renting and taking your time, not forcing it and buying something that isn't a good fit for you. Well, given that time horizon and the uncertainty of when you might redeploy these assets, I think the key there is we don't want to invest that money because, you know, if you put it at the risk of the stock or the bond market, you know, and it were to lose value right at the time you need to sell it, you can have less than you need. And with this money, it's all about protecting and preserving what you have, earning a little bit of interest if possible, but that's secondary.

What's primary is, you know, hanging on to what you've got so that when it's ready to redeploy it, you can. What I would do, Gary, is just put that into a high yield online savings account, FDIC insured up to $250,000. The money will be there when you need it.

You could link it to your checking account and move it over electronically with a day or two's notice. And you'll earn right now about a half of a percent. It's not a lot, but again, the key right now is not the return on your investment. It's the return of your investment when you need it to redeploy it. So I'd check out Ally Bank, perhaps Marcus, Capital One 360, any of those, no fees, no minimums.

You get some interest. And again, they have a great website or app that will allow you to transfer this money whenever you need. All the best to you as you pursue God's plan for you and find that next home. This is MoneyWise Live. Stay with us.

We'll be right back. Thanks for tuning in today to MoneyWise Live. So glad to have you along with us as we apply God's truth to your financial life, recognizing God owns it all.

We're a steward. Money is a tool, and it's to be used to accomplish God's purposes and that, you know, His Word, 2350 verses of them really gives us the principles, the pathway to experience God's best. Does that mean we'll always have everything that we need financially?

No, absolutely not. We'll be in times of need. We'll be in times of plenty. The key is to find contentment, being content in what God has already provided wherever we're at, beginning with, not the financial, beginning with His promises.

He'll never leave us or forsake us. Beginning with, first and foremost, that He sent His Son to die on the cross for us. If we just start there, we'll recognize we already have an abundance. Now, financially speaking, wherever we're at, whatever passes through our hands, we want to be found faithful in using God's resources for His glory.

And the principles are so clear and they can be profoundly simple if we just look at God's Word and see what He has for us. Well, let's try to apply those to what's going on in your financial life. Just around the corner, we'll talk to Ed in Cleveland about his credit rating. We'll talk about refinancing with Monica.

But next up, let's head to Grand Rapids, Michigan. Jake, thank you for your patience. How can I help you? Hi, Rob.

Thanks for taking my call. I'm a youth pastor, and I'm in seminary, and it sounds like my institution has applied for a COVID relief grant. And a portion of that is funds that get passed on to the students.

And from my understanding, those funds are to be used related to COVID relief issues. So my school has given me the opportunity to either apply that directly to my tuition or take it as a check. Now, with being a part of the cohort that I'm in there, and my church has thankfully kind of stepped into the gap to help me cover tuition costs, I don't really have a direct need to apply this to my tuition. So I'm wondering if I can take this as a check. And if I do, you know, what sort of strings come along attached with that? Is this something where I have to verify that I spent these on, you know, spent those funds on something related to my tuition or related to, you know, a COVID relief issue?

Just wondering if you have any wisdom on that? Yeah, it's a great question, Jake. And obviously, you want to be found faithful in honoring the Lord with these resources and only taking what you're entitled to using it for its intended purposes. And I commend all of that, you know, this nearly $2 trillion American Rescue Plan allocated, I believe it was a little over 100 billion for K to 12 education, and 40 billion to institutions of higher education and college students. You know, these grants really were intended to help schools and students return to safe in person learning as quickly as possible. And, you know, really, this comes down to should you use available government assistance? What was it in its intended purpose? And does your need meet that? And I think ultimately, you know, you need to think and pray through that, you know, as anybody should have with any of this assistance that was specifically for, you know, those affected by the COVID pandemic, whether that was the payroll protection plan or any of them. And so, you know, I would just ask the Lord, is this something that applies to me based on the spirit of what was intended here by this? And if it is, then use it.

And that was what it was for. But if it doesn't apply to you, perhaps you just pass on it. I think the key is, you know, taking full advantage of what was being provided, based on the spirit of what it was intended to do. And, you know, clearly, you want to be able to pay for your education in full. But if you have that covered through other means, you know, through, you know, some other source, then, you know, perhaps you don't apply for this and just pass on it all together.

Does that make sense? Yeah, you know, it sounds like this is something that they would kind of like, from the email, I said, I have either have the option to apply it to my tuition, or they'll write me a check. So I didn't know if even passing on it is an option. Maybe that's something I have to talk to them about. So yeah, I would just check on that and perhaps raise that question. You know, I don't know the finer points of this particular aspect of the American Rescue Plan Act. I think the key is just to go into it, you know, being completely open and willing to say, who is it for?

And in what form? And does it apply to me? And if it does, great. And let's use it for the purpose in which it was intended. And let's get you through school without any debt or anything like that.

But if you have the option, and tuition is covered, and that's really what it was designed for, then perhaps you say, you know what, I'm gonna pass on this and leave it there for someone else. But I think the Lord will give you some wisdom, Jake, I'm confident in that. And I appreciate you seeking out the answer to this question through your call today. Let's head to Cleveland, Ohio. Ed, you're next on the program.

How can we help you? Well, thank you, Rob. I enjoy listening to your show.

I've got a basic question. I make a good living. All right, and I'm always very careful with my bills and tithing and things like that. And I noticed, oh, I would say about a little while ago, I paid off a car loan. And my credit rating at the time was, I think about, I know we get the three different, you know, accounts, but I think it was about maybe like an 811 or, you know, something like that. And I noticed after I paid off my loan, it dropped to like 799 or 798. And like I said, that's not, you know, horrific or anything. But I'm kind of curious, why would paying off a car loan cause my credit rating to go down? And everything else is the same.

No, it's a good question. You know, several factors can lower your score a bit, although it's very temporary in most cases. You perhaps have eliminated the only installment loan you have, which based on your credit mix, that will cause you to suffer because that percent of the credit score is based on you having a variety of types of credit. You might have increased your overall credit utilization, meaning your available credit is lower now, or you've lowered the average age of your accounts.

Any of those could affect you. Bottom line is if you stay as an on-time payer, it will recover. And regardless, this is a minor drop. You're still going to qualify for the very best rates and terms. Hey, thanks for your call today, Ed. We'll be right back with Money Wise Live. Thanks for choosing to spend some time with us on Money Wise Live this afternoon. We're so thankful you're here, taking your calls and questions, applying God's wisdom to your financial situation.

Here's the number 800-525-7000. We started the program today talking about an, well, an update on Forrest Fenn's lost treasure. Yes, it has been claimed. And we were talking about just all of the events surrounding what became somewhat of an internet phenomenon. In addition to that, really looking from a biblical perspective at how we should think about that. The Bible is clear. We shouldn't be thinking about getting rich quickly. In fact, the Bible uses the words steady plotting to determine or to describe how we should approach investing, putting God's money to work. And, you know, it might be lost loot in the Rockies, or it could be Bitcoin or the latest high flying tech stock. You know, whatever it is, I think the key we have to always check ourselves against is, are we being greed driven? You know, is this about being greedy or is it about sound prudent investments?

Remember, it's God's money, not yours. Can you explain it? I've often used that litmus test to determine whether I should make an investment. And if I can't explain it, I stay away from it. You know, I think, especially now we're in the social media age where we just read so much and we can get caught in the comparison trap of somebody that made X thousands of dollars last week and, you know, a particular stock or, you know, whatever it might be. And all of a sudden we start thinking and our wheels start churning. Take a step back and remember as a manager of God's resources, is that the best place for you to be.

And if it's not steady plotting, if it's not long-term perspective, if it's not something you can explain easily to your spouse or a friend or family member, then just pass and be confident that you're following biblical principles that are always right, always relevant, and will never, ever change. I hope that's an encouragement to you. We've got some lines open today on MoneyWise Live 800-525-7000. Homer Glenn, Illinois. Monica, thank you for your patience.

How can I help you? Hi, thank you for taking my call. My husband and I are thinking of refinancing our home. We currently have a 3.75 interest rate. We owe 172,000 on our current home.

It's a 30-year. We've paid nine years off already and we are getting an offer of 2.5 volts, but they are charging us $7,000 for closing fees. Yeah, and so I imagine that they're in a sense asking you to buy down the rate, which is why you're getting that 2.5% offer and that's why the expenses are so high. I would typically not want you to pay more than 2% in closing costs, which is going to be a lot less than that.

You know, on $172,000, that would be basically $3,500, not $7,000, so you're paying twice that. Let me ask you, what type of new mortgage is this, Monica? Is this a new 30-year mortgage? No, it's a 15-year. 15-year, okay.

All right, and so that's one of the reasons. I would keep shopping. I mean, I like the idea if you all are going to stay in this home for a while, if you're going to decrease the term, which clearly nine years into a 30-year mortgage, you've got 21 years left, you're going with a new 15, that's great. If you're going to get at least a point, hopefully a point and a quarter in reduction in interest rate, that's what you were being offered, but even if you just got 2.75, I'd like to see if you can get those closing costs down a little lower. $7,000 on a $172,000 loan is a bit steep for me, so I'd get a couple of additional bids.

You could check with your current lender, but I'd go online to bankrate.com, see who has the best loan programs with the best rates and terms with the lowest closing costs, and perhaps shop it with a few more lenders to see if you can find somebody who would do a similar mortgage, maybe slightly higher interest rate, but where you have a lot less in upfront costs, because if you roll that into the mortgage, you'll be increasing that mortgage by $7,000 right there on day one, but if you can do that, get those closing costs down, and you can check all those other boxes, then I am completely on board with this strategy, and we appreciate your call today. To Cleveland, Ohio, Gabby, thank you for your patience. How can I help you? Is it Gabby or Debbie? Whichever you are is what it needs to be. I apologize if I misspoke. Tell me who I'm speaking with.

That's okay. This is Debbie, Deborah. Oh, Debbie, very good.

How can I help you, Debbie? I have a question. So now, how realistic is it for two retirees, ages 65 and 63, respectively, to purchase a home at this late stage in our life? We're engaged, we'll be getting married in a couple of months, so...

Yes, well, it's very realistic. I think the question is just, how are you going to go about doing that? Are you looking to take on a big mortgage, and if so, you know, I'd love for you to be able to have at least 20% down, hopefully a good bit more than that, and, you know, are you still working, and do you have documented income that you can show to the lender, those types of things.

So walk me through, Debbie, what it is you're looking to do. How much home are you looking to purchase, and how much do you have in the way of a down payment? Probably no more than $200,000 with maybe $30,000 as a down payment, 15-year mortgage, fixed.

We're both retired. Okay, and have you looked at that in light of the income that you have, and does that mortgage payment, if you were to borrow $170,000, let's say, is that going to be principal interest taxes and insurance? Would it be more than 25% of the income you have coming in? I'm not sure in terms of 25%. If the mortgage calculators are fairly accurate, it's affordable.

Okay. I don't know how accurate the mortgage calculators are. Well, I think the key is, I mean, that's a start, but what needs to happen is you need to look at that in light of what's actually your budget. So yeah, I mean, you could use a mortgage calculator to determine, based on a realistic interest rate today, and a 15-year mortgage on $170,000, what that mortgage payment would be. And then I want you to plug that into your budget on a realistic basis, and I want to make sure that that spending plan has not just the things that you all think of in the first pass, if you don't have a really detailed spending plan, but includes fixed and discretionary spending and non-recurring expenses, semi-annual interest or insurance payments, and putting some money aside for, I would say, 1% of the value of the home for maintenance every year. So you can deal with issues as some wood begins to rot and you need to make some repairs to the roof and things like that.

The gutters have a problem. I'd want to make sure that you have everything in that budget, and even then, that mortgage payment fits comfortably because it's a bit more mortgage than I'd like for you to take on in terms of loan to value. I'd really love on a $200,000 mortgage for you all to be going in with at least $40,000. So perhaps that's one option as you continue to save until you get another $10,000, but at the very minimum, I want to make sure that this payment fits into your budget. And a good barometer to that is that 25% rule of thumb that the total principal interest taxes and insurance payment is no more than 25% of your total income.

So your two social security checks plus any other income sources that you have. So run that through the budget and then talk to some lenders. I don't have a problem with you all taking this on and I'm glad to hear you're going to limit it to a 15-year mortgage. I think that's very, very wise.

Clearly, interest rates are low, rents are high right now, and so there's probably a pretty good case for you to do this, but I just don't want you to get overextended in this season of life and we appreciate your call today. Folks, much more to come still on MoneyWise Live. We do have some lines open. We'd love to hear from you. What's on your mind today? Give us a call, 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is MoneyWise Live where God's word intersects with today's financial decisions. Stay with us.

More to come. We're so glad you've joined us today for MoneyWise Live. As we head toward the end of May, we could use your assistance. If you count yourself among the MoneyWise family and you are not an active giver to the ministry, we would just ask that you perfectly consider that. Perhaps this is a time beyond the giving to your local church that you'd like to support the work of MoneyWise. As we partner with Moody Radio to bring you this broadcast every day, we bring you our coaches, our app, all the content on our website, the many things that we do to encourage you, the body of Christ, and how you handle money. We are a 501c3 not-for-profit organization and we only do what we do through your generous support.

Would you consider a gift? If so, head over to our website, MoneyWiseLive.org. Just click the donate button and we would be grateful. Back to the phones today. In fact, we have a few lines open and perhaps can take one or two more calls yet today. Here's the number 800-525-7000 as we head into a Memorial Day weekend.

Let's head to Hammond, Indiana. Katie, thank you for calling today. How can I help you? Oh, thank you so much and thank you for everything you do for everybody on your show. I really enjoy listening to you. Thank you.

That's very kind. So, I have a 401k that I wasn't really keeping track of, whatever, life caretaking the last 10 years and I took a look at it and realized that I made one third of it just in the last two years and it totals about 900,000. So, I am turning 60 and I panicked when I saw how much I made and I wanted to protect it. So, I called the company that manages it and asked them, you know, what I need to do and for the moment I just have it rolled over into an IRA just parked until I have a phone meeting with them, you know, next week and decide how to direct it. They're suggesting an annuity that pays like 1.75% for three years. It was a three-year commitment and they also are suggesting that I put half of it, let them help me invest it but I'm thinking, you know, I'm such a gift to have this much money. I don't know if I should even go back into stocks or bonds or just just protect it and hang on to it.

I don't really need the money for probably 10 years minimum. So, I'm just not sure which way to go. Well, I appreciate so much the question that you're asking here. I mean, obviously the market has done very well. You've been a diligent saver and because of how it was invested, it's, you know, grown significantly and as you said, especially in the last couple of years, I mean, nearly a million dollars. I mean, that's a huge sum of money and I appreciate the care with which you want to be a steward of this as God's money manager.

We shouldn't operate out of fear, you know, you don't need to be fearful about it but you should be prudent and faithful in how you manage it and that's exactly what you're doing. I can tell you, I don't like the idea of an annuity. It's typically within a, I don't need to know the company, don't want to know the company but with a lot of these companies that have these plans, these 401k plans and so forth, you know, their default position is annuity insurance products because they're complicated, they generate huge commissions and, you know, they limit flexibility and, you know, I think you can still have plenty of protection, get as conservative as you want to be and not tie this up in an insurance product and pay a lot of fees and commissions. So I'd prefer to see you have this money handled outside of an insurance company with a professional money manager, somebody who can get to know you, your goals and dreams, where God is taking you, what are your values and convictions and how can this money support really where God is leading you in this next season of life over the next 10 years and beyond when this nearly million dollars and whatever it will grow to conservatively, again, you know, taking the risk way down, whatever it will grow to, how could that be converted into an income stream for you where you don't live, you know, in fear, you have plenty of peace of mind but you know that somebody's managing it according to your God-given goals and objectives. So at the very minimum, what I'd love to see you do, Katie, before you make any decisions is meet with a couple of other financial professionals, those that tend to be more independent as opposed to captive with a particular company and can really just look at your situation, do a lot of discovery, ask a lot of questions and also someone who knows the counsel of scripture, understands God's heart as it relates to his money and can advise you in everything from not only how it's invested to how it should be given away as the Lord leads you. So what I would do is head over to our website MoneyWiseLive.org and do a search for a Certified Kingdom Advisor.

You'll click find a CKA, you can put in your zip code, you'll get a long list. These are men and women who've got significant experience in the business, they've met ethical and integrity requirements, regulatory reviews, pastor and client references, but they also have been especially trained to bring biblically wise financial advice to bear in their counsel. And so you'll know that the counsel you're getting aligns with your values and priorities as a Christian. You know, they all are independent, meaning they set their own fees and have their own business models and investment strategies, so they don't work for us, but you'll know they've attained what is the gold standard designation for biblically wise financial advice. But I would interview at least two of them, maybe three, and find the one that's the good fit, at least to compare what might be suggested in terms of how you can approach managing this outside of an insurance product to what's being suggested to you by the company you've already spoken to. I've thrown a lot at you though, tell me if you have questions. Yeah, one question regarding that annuity, I'd asked what the fees would be and they said it's more or less like a hidden fee, like I would make the 1.75 interest and they may make 0.25, but there's no other like commissions or fees besides that. Yeah, it's all kind of baked in and built into the product and it gets very complicated and complex.

I don't like anything that's hidden. I want everything to be transparent and above board because somebody's making a lot of money and you want to know exactly where that is and how that's flowing and you want to make sure that you're not giving up a lot because you know you with 10 years left before you need to start drawing on this money there's no reason that you have to settle for 1.75% unless you want to, unless you say I just want to be completely risk averse and have zero chance that this money could you know lose value in any way. But if you're willing to take a little bit of risk perhaps not anywhere near what you have been you know this money should be able to grow for you over the next decade at you know four or five percent you know and you could still pay somebody to handle it for you.

So I don't want you to pay too much but I also don't want you to give up too much and I think getting some wise counsel to navigate that and explain what that might look like would then put you in a position to make the right decision for you, not for me because it's the money God's entrusted to you and you need to be the one to ultimately make that decision. So do me a favor reach out to a CKA or two there in Hammond and hear what they have to say as far as a different perspective and then if you have questions give us a call back, okay? I really appreciate that. Thank you and enjoy your Memorial Day weekend. Thank you. Thank you, Katie. Yes, God bless you. I appreciate that.

To Chicago, Illinois. Tom, thanks for your patience today. How can I help you?

Hi, Rob. Thanks for your ministry and thanks for taking my call. My situation is this. I'm 58 and a half years old. I have approximately 1.2 million in liquid assets. God has tremendously blessed me like your last caller especially in the last year and I'm wondering I also have three rentals and my condo that we live in all paid off and they're all being rented right now except for the one we live in, of course. I have a six-year-old boy and I'm just wondering if I have enough assets to be okay retiring at this age or I'm thinking maybe one more year but I'm not really sure.

Yeah, very good. Tom, as you've looked at the income sources you'll have, I mean obviously you're not of age to receive Social Security nor you know even if you were at 62 it may not make sense because you'd take about a 25% haircut on that so you know as you evaluate the other income sources you have perhaps taking this 1.2 million and turning that into an income stream you know let's say you were to pull off of that you know 50,000 a year which would be reasonable and then you add to that the income that's being thrown off by the rentals would that be enough to cover your obligations? Well the rentals, that's another I've got a plethora of questions for you but I'm not going to take all day. The rentals I'm figuring probably net me about five to six hundred maybe five-fifty each a month so that's about fifteen, sixteen-fifty. I don't get a pension until I'm 62 so I still have what three and a half years and that's about 21.50 a month so it would not be enough to cover anything in that sense. It would pay for probably we probably spend about $3,000 a month in expenses we have everything our cars paid off no other debt. Okay all right well but the $3,000 a month I mean so you're only talking I mean even if you're wrong and it's $4,000 that you need $50,000 a year should cover it is what I'm hearing is that right? Yes. Okay and so if you've got you know let's say we were to you were to connect with an investment advisor that were to say you know what Tom I think we can pull $50,000 a year out of this $1.2 million invested in such a way where any portion that's allocated to stocks that if we got into a recession and it was down 20 or 30 percent we could wait it out and you know we could do other things with a fixed income portion to be real conservative through you know governments and bonds and preferred stocks things like that you know I think you could be in a situation where you have all that you need between the rental income and what you'd be pulling from the investments I think the key is what vision has God given you for this next season what would you do with your time where is he leading because our calling doesn't expire we're not to live just a life of leisure we're to always be asking God what is my assignment but clearly you have the financial resources to cover that but clearly you have the financial resources to cover that as long as you can match that with the vision that he's given you stay on the line we'll talk a bit more off the air money wise live is a partnership between moody radio and money wise media as you head into this memorial day weekend may God bless you as you remember the sacrifice of so many I hope you'll come back and join us on Monday we'll be here and look forward to unpacking God's truth as it relates to your financial life we'll see you then God bless you