The Art of Negotiating

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Today's version of MoneyWise Live is pre-recorded. The vast wealth that Americans enjoy compared to much of the world is something of a double-edged sword. It does allow most of us to live a comfortable lifestyle, but at the same time, it makes us terrible at negotiating. We almost always decide whether to buy something based on the offered price, while in many other countries, negotiating is a way of life. Today, Rob West has some ways you can talk your way to a better deal. Then we take some calls from all across the country.

However, today's edition of the program is not live. We are pre-recorded. I'm Steve Moore, The Art of Negotiating, next right here on MoneyWise Live. Well, Rob, I'll be the first to admit that I don't often try to haggle for a better price on things, but when I do try, quite often it works. So why do you suppose so many of us are a bit shy or reluctant to try it?

Well, I think, Steve, it starts with just a lack of confidence. We don't really know how to do it, so we don't try, and then it just becomes a habit to pay whatever the seller is asking. Yeah, and I think some people might think that it's in some ways maybe dishonest or unbiblical to talk someone down a bit in price. What do you think about that? Well, I don't think it's unbiblical at all. It's actually good stewardship, making the most of the resources God has entrusted to us. The Bible has many examples of God's people negotiating with others.

The spies coming to terms with Rahab in Joshua 2 is just one of them. It reads, Negotiating is not at all like trying to dodge a debt or evade paying taxes, which of course are clearly dishonest and unbiblical. As long as the seller has the freedom to say no, there's nothing wrong with trying to get a better deal.

The objective, of course, is that it's win-win. Typically, when I negotiate, I don't start out with my life for yours. I don't want to start… Probably a good idea. I tried to kind of come in low and slow there.

All right, so where do we start today? Well, Steve, the first thing is to determine where you can negotiate and where you can't. There's no sense wasting your time if you know the offered price is absolutely firm. Here are some things you can often get a lower price on if you're willing to negotiate. Take your cell phone plan, perhaps your cable package.

That's more true now than with all of the available streaming options and apps. Your credit card interest rate, even maybe your gym membership. With those, sometimes all you have to do is ask and you'll get a better rate. Some others will require more work, your car insurance, your rent, even your salary. But a word about car insurance, you might have to give up some things to get a better price. So just be sure you're always maintaining adequate coverage.

Yeah, that's for sure. All right, let's get down to some nuts and bolts here. Give us an example of how one might want to negotiate. How do you start that out? To negotiate a better rent price, start by doing your homework. So use Zillow or Craigslist to find out what others are paying for comparable units or properties in your area. Make a list of a few with lower rents that you can cite in your negotiation. Then be ready to offer something in return for a lower price. Maybe you can pay a few months in advance or you'd be willing to sign a longer lease or increase the termination notice from 30 to 60 or even 90 days. These are attractive features to a landlord, but you can also offer things that won't cost you anything. So for example, if you don't have a car, offer your parking space or promise not to smoke in the unit.

That could save the landlord money or not to even keep a pet if they are allowed. The real art to negotiating, Steve, is working toward both parties getting something out of it. And again, that goes back to this idea that I mentioned earlier, that it's a true win-win. Yeah, good point.

All right. You mentioned negotiating a better salary. That seems like it might be a tough one with COVID shutdowns and all the rest.

True, but some businesses are actually doing well despite the shutdowns. You know, if your company hasn't had layoffs and there's plenty of work, it may be time to think about asking for a raise. Start by making a list of problems you've solved for the company. Maybe you've decreased the accounts receivable balance or your ideas and suggestions eliminated certain expenses. That's a great start.

Then make a separate list of problems you will solve going forward. Finally, determine your asking salary. I would visit salary.com or payscale.com to get an idea of what others are paid for similar work in your area. Now you're ready to negotiate.

So then make an appointment with the boss to talk about your salary. And maybe after the break, Steve, we'll talk about what could happen in that meeting. All right, we'll do that. The art of negotiating with Rob West. You're listening to MoneyWise Live, but today we're not live. So if you hear that phone number, please don't call, but do stick around.

Lots of good information ahead. Rob West needed to get his head wrapped around his newfound freedom. I mean, responsibilities of hosting MoneyWise by himself now that Steve is retired. So enjoy a week of encore presentations of the program and then tune in next week for Rob without a safety net on the all new MoneyWise Live. We're talking about negotiating, something Americans typically aren't fond of doing, but around the world, it's almost a daily thing.

People sort of expect it. So, Rob, you've arranged to have a meeting with your boss. You're prepared, hopefully he or she is prepared as well to discuss your salary. Now, how do we negotiate from that point on?

Yeah. And a reminder, just make sure you're well versed in what an asking salary should be and have the backup for it. salary.com payscale.com both will give you an idea of what others are paid for, for similar work in your area. When you go in to make that appointment with the boss and you sit down, I would again show that list of problem solved problems you'll address. The worst that can happen is the boss says no.

And if that happens, hang on to those lists you've made. If you decide to move on, there'll be a big help when you schedule your next job interview. And again, no harm in asking.

Companies are looking for the opportunity to hang on to great workers. And if that's you, this could be a great opportunity to advance in your career. All right. Rob, let's just slowly take a couple of seconds here.

Let's role play a little bit. All right. So I come in, I sit down across the desk from you. Your desk is a long, broad, deep desk.

Nothing on the top of the desk at all. Very imposing. You've got on your black suit, the black shirt, the black tie. And I say, excuse me, Mr. West, I'll try not to take much of your time. But generally speaking, are you happy with the work I'm doing for you, sir?

And you want to know what my next statement will be? Yeah. Yeah.

We're role playing here. I see. Yeah. And I fully agree, Steve.

Great work you're doing. All right. Well, in that case, Rob, how about I don't show up for Friday's program unless I get the dressing room I've been asking for for years, sir. And I say, I'll see you tomorrow. Oh, I thought you were going to say, and we'll miss you. All right. Hey, Bellevue, Ohio. Hello, Sue. How can we help you?

Yes, I thank you for taking my call. My husband and I are both 60 years old. We are retired. We own our own home. We live within our retired budget income. We have a six month emergency fund, which you guys recommend. We have thirty five thousand dollars in utility stock and we also have a retirement fund of approximately two hundred and seventy five thousand, which we do not access. Currently, that two hundred and seventy five thousand is in a fixed, stable account.

Two point five five. And we get the income analysis every year. And they're always saying you really ought to diversify and get into some bonds or stock. Never been much of a risk taker. We worked hard to get that amount.

And I just want some insight and see what you guys think. Yeah. Well, I think the key here, first of all, Sue, is that you're doing a great job. You have all of your ducks in a row, so to speak. You're living well within your means. You've been a diligent saver and you've accumulated quite a bit. I love the fact that you have that emergency fund in place.

So if the unexpected comes, you've got something to fall back on. I think the question is, what is the right level of risk for you, given what you know today and what you don't know with regard to this money lasting the rest of your lives? I think the key is nobody else can really define for you what that appropriate level of risk should be. It's really going to come down to what are you trying to accomplish and what is prudent, given the principles we see in God's word about living within your means and being content, but also being able to provide for yourselves now and in the future. In terms of the income sources that you have, Sue, do you really anticipate unless something unexpected comes, they will continue to cover your lifestyle needs in the future, meaning you wouldn't expect to have to touch these investments unless something came that was unforeseen?

That is correct. Okay. And as you all talk about the appropriate level of risk that you might want to take, are you interested in having beyond the 35,000 that's allocated to utility stocks?

Are you interested in any portion of the roughly 275,000 being at the risk of the stock market, which would then in return give you the ability to see potentially a greater return over the long haul on that portion? That is the purpose of my call. Like I said, wanting to try and do what's right, not what's easy, and just wanting to, I guess, diversify if that seems probable. Like you said, there's so many variables you can't depend on. One of us could get sick at this point. We're relatively healthy.

We don't have any life insurance or nursing home insurance. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we could go back to rules of thumb, and that could be a starting point for us. But at the end of the day, the right mix of investments is only what you're most comfortable with, what allows you to sleep well at night and feel like you're being a good steward of your resources and not taking on any unnecessary anxiety or stress because you have this money, which you are the steward of no one else at the, perhaps with a higher level of risk. So that starting point would be, you know, that rule of thumb that would say you take 100 minus your age, and that would be the portion that you would want invested in a stock allocation. So, you know, that would be 40% of your portfolio, which, you know, if you have 275,000, and then you said you had about 35,000 in utilities, we've got 310,000. So that would be, you know, about 125,000 potentially that could be at the risk of the market. Now, does that mean that's the right number for you?

No, not necessarily. You all may decide we don't want that much at the risk of the market. We're going to back it down to 30% or even 20% or less. Because whatever portion is at the risk of the market, you have to recognize that there could be at any given time if we were into a recession and a bear market, you could see that portion of the portfolio decline, depending on how aggressive it's invested 20, 30%. And you have to ask yourself, would I be okay with that for a period of time where I could see that paper loss on a statement and not react emotionally and go in and sell it perhaps as the market was falling and wait it out for as much as 18 months to three years, at least based on historical trends for it to come back and move to higher ground. If you felt like you and your husband, you could see that happen and weather that storm for that portion, then the upside of that is historically speaking, that would allow you to have a bit more growth in the portfolio beyond the two and a half percent you're earning right now on the lion's share of this. But if you said, you know what, Rob, I just wouldn't be comfortable with that.

I'd lose sleep, I'd open the statement, I'd feel like we need to do something, I'd want to go in and sell it, then I'd say, you know what, we probably don't need that much allocated to the riskier asset classes. Even though we could be on the more conservative end of them, there's still risk. And I would say, well, then let's dial it back.

I don't think 40% is your number, perhaps it's between 10 and 20%. That's the conversation you need to have, and nobody else can really tell you what's right or wrong. I think at the end of the day, we want to try to balance what has God called us to? What are our needs? What is the appropriate amount of risk for us to take for us to feel like we're still in a good place and we're not beyond what we're comfortable with? And how do we allow this to grow to outpace inflation and to continue as the cost of health care increases?

And if we were to live a long time and the Lord tarries for this money to be able to be around for us. And I think somewhere between that 10%, which is basically where you're at right now, and 40% of the portfolio allocated to stocks is probably the right range, and you all have to decide where in that range you want to land. The last thing I would say, Sue, is you may be a little bit over concentrated toward the utility sector. I like utilities in that they tend to be, you know, a little more stable, they have dividends, so they pay income.

But if the utility market gets out of favor, and in certain economies that does, then you're highly concentrated with basically 10% of your assets in one sector, you may want to dial that back just a little bit. Now, I've thrown a lot at you. Any thoughts, comments?

A lot. If I understood you correctly, sir, you said it's imperative that you leave it in the stock for 18 to three years. And because we tried this one time, and when it did go down, we rushed to take it out and put it back in the stable.

And I know they say that's not a good idea. Yeah, yeah, it's exactly right. Because during that period of time, which again, just based on history, a bear market can last on average 18 months to three years, and you'll see the market declining. It certainly happened back in 2008-2009.

But what's happened since then? Well, we've probably had the greatest bull market ever for the last 10 or 12 years. Then of course, the pandemic in 2020 with a steep decline that was short lived. Now the markets recovered and is continuing to trend upward in recent months. And usually those who react to a decline and take their money out of the market during a crisis don't time their reentry well, because you just simply can't, and then they miss the recovery. So my point is, you would have to have some confidence that that portion and that's all it is that portion that was allocated towards stocks, you felt like you could weather whatever storm may hit the market in the future, and you would be able to ride it out. And I think that's where you've just really got to give it a matter of prayer, you got to talk through it. And that's where a financial advisor could come in as well.

Somebody who shares your values like a certified kingdom advisor. So hopefully this has been helpful to you. Why don't you think about it, pray about it. If you want to talk some more, give us a call back. Thank you, Sue, God bless you. Today's broadcast is pre recorded, but we have some calls lined up and some great information coming your way. When we come back from our break, we'll say hi to Norma in Chicago and Joe in Alabama. This is Money Wise Live. I'm Steve Moore.

We'll be right back. If you thought you heard Steve Moore say goodbye last week, you did. But we're giving you one more week of Steve in the form of encore presentations of Money Wise Live. You're listening to Money Wise Live. Here's a great verse when it comes to investing. It's from the book of Ecclesiastes, Ecclesiastes 7, 2. Divide your portion to seven, even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.

And obviously the concept of principle there is all about diversification. Chicago, Illinois, and Norma, what's on your mind? Hi, I have a mortgage. And my balance is 37,000. And I have a savings account of 40,000. I wonder if you advise me to pay off my mortgage? You said the balance Norma is 37,000 on the mortgage. And what do you have in savings?

40,000. Okay. Yeah, that would be a little concerning just because you'd obviously bring your savings all the way down to 3,000. I'm assuming you're able to meet your expenses just with the Social Security coming in?

Yeah, I'm still working and making 1,500 a month. Okay. And at the end of a typical month, Norma, do you have a little bit left over even while you're paying the mortgage payment?

Yes. How much would you say roughly? A thousand. A thousand a month left over? Uh-huh.

Okay, very good. Well, and what would you say roughly are your total expenses that you have on a given month? Including my tithes and offerings? Yes, ma'am. Expenses altogether will be like 1,500.

1,500? Yeah. Okay. All right.

Well, here's the thing. The good news is you're obviously living well within your means, and as soon as you pay off the mortgage, you would still need to continue to escrow for taxes and insurance, but you'd drop that mortgage payment. What is the mortgage payment not including any escrows? Do you happen to know what that is? No.

Okay. Well, that amount would be added to your surplus. So let's say your mortgage payment, just the mortgage itself, principal and interest, is 500 a month, for example. So now you'd have 1,500 a month. Well, if you paid it off and you had 3,000 left over, which is essentially about already two months' expenses, then you could add another 1,500 a month to that moving forward because you'd have the 1,000 surplus plus the mortgage payment. And really focus on building your savings back up.

One option would be to delay this. So you continue to kind of save up this extra $1,000 a month until you have at least three months' expenses, which you're not far away from. Another couple of months you'll be there, or you could go even four or six months of putting an additional $1,000 aside. And at that point, I think between three and six months' expenses in the bank, I like the idea of you going ahead and paying off this mortgage, being completely debt-free, assuming there's not anything on the horizon that you know about that's going to be a major expense, a major home repair, a health event that's coming, something like that.

If you don't see anything like that today, then I'd wait a few months, continue to save, but then go ahead and wipe out the mortgage and then really focus on taking your margin that you have today plus the amount of the principal and interest you're saving and pile that back into savings so you can build that back up as a reserve. And I think you'll be glad to have that off your back and feel a lot better about being debt-free. Norma, we appreciate your phone call today and wish you the very best on that.

Thanks so much. When we come back, we'll chat with Joe, who wants to know about annuities versus the stock market, stocks, mutual funds. Also, Yvette wants to know about Little House or Big House and her opinion or her husband's opinion. We'll get into that as well. Taking your calls today on MoneyWise Live. Don't forget to visit us on our website anytime you like MoneyWiseLive.org. We'll be right back. This is MoneyWise Live!

Yvette in Atlanta and Ryan in Grand Rapids. We're moving in your direction. Stay with us. But first, it's Joe in Northport, Alabama. Joe, we're so glad to have you on the program today. How can we help, sir? Yes, thank you for this opportunity.

I've learned a lot from you guys. I'm participating in the TIAA retirement program under the 403b. And I have a total of $440,000 under that program with $260,000 being from annuities and $180,000 from stocks and mutual funds. I'm 81 years old, and the guaranteed rate on this program is 3%. I understand any new money coming in, you can only get 1%, but since I've been in it so long, I'm qualified for the guaranteed rate of 3%. My wealth management specialist has suggested that I put all $440,000 into the annuity fund.

I would just like to get your thinking, your opinion on that. Yes, sir. So you said the roughly 180 that's in stocks and bonds. How has that been performing for you?

It's been doing pretty good. What I've been doing is I've been investing for probably over about 50 or 60 years. Sometimes the stocks keep outperforming the annuities, so sometimes I just take some of the stock and put it into the annuities. Yes, sir.

But the annuity is what has the 3% guarantee on it? Yes. Yeah, okay. And are you drawing an income off of this roughly $440,000, Joe? Yes, I pick up interest only. Okay, alright. And so that's supplementing your income?

Yes. Okay, very good. Well, I think the key here is, let me ask you one more question. Is that about, what is that amount that you need from this portfolio to balance your budget each month? Well, in addition to this particular fund, I have several others I've probably got slightly over half a million in things like CVs and bonds and money markets, those kind of things. Okay. Actually, I'm just pulling that money out to try and help me to meet that required minimum distribution.

I see, I see. So you have about a million all in or more in terms of investable assets? Right, about a million too. Okay, and what is your monthly need from all income sources beyond Social Security to maintain your lifestyle? How much do you need regardless of which account it's coming from? What do you really need to pay the bills? Probably about $2,000 a month.

Okay, alright. So if you've got a million too, and you're only needing, you know, $2,000 a month, you really only need about 2% of this money, which means there's really not any need for you to take unnecessary risk. You know, you've got obviously good assets, you've been a diligent saver, your lifestyle has had a minimum, you know, you're not trying to fund an extravagant lifestyle. And so if you only need 2% a year on this 1.2 million, there's probably not a reason to take much more risk than the guaranteed portion, because you just don't have to. Now, if you wanted to try to grow it because you wanted to pass it on, or you want to be able to give it away to your church or favorite ministry, and you wanted some allocation to stocks, just to be a prudent investor, well, there would be nothing wrong with that. At 80 years old, you could make a case for having 20 or even 30% of this invested in a stock allocation.

But again, if it's not necessary, what you're trying to do is not beat somebody else's returns, you're just trying to accomplish what the Lord has for you, and you've obviously accumulated all that you need. So if you would feel better not being at the risk of the market, especially given where we're at in this cycle with 11 years of bull market behind us, then moving to the guaranteed portion would probably be a great idea, because you just don't have to take any more risk than you're already taking. In fact, you could take less risk. So I don't have any problem with that.

I think at the end of the day, it really just comes down to what you're most comfortable with. Does that make sense? Yes, yes.

Let me ask you this. I've been thinking about setting up an endowment fund for a rural church that has a number of young people, but they don't have very much of resources. And I was just wondering, do you know of something that might be of value to me in setting that up? Yeah, you know what I would do is check with our friends at the National Christian Foundation.

They could help you determine what the best type of account would be for you to do that. It could be something like a donor advised fund, where you could go ahead and park the money there, and then just release it as it's needed for the church, but they would probably have some other ideas. They really are skilled in this area of wise giving. And you can go online at ncfgiving.com to get more information and to get the phone number for the office closest to you, or you could talk to the folks in the national office here in Atlanta.

But they're just wonderful folks that would love to walk alongside you and give you some great godly advice on how best to serve this local church with the resources God has given you. ncfgiving.com. Joe, we're glad you called today.

Sounds like you're doing great. We appreciate that call today. We wish you the best.

Thank you very, very much. Let's see, Yvette in Atlanta, can we make it quick? We have just a couple of minutes. How can we help? Okay, I'll try to make it quick.

Thank you so much for taking my call. I have a, I have a tiny house on wheels. And I lived in it up to my husband, I got married and both are retired and I want to use my TSP fund, some of my TSP funds to pay it off. It's 25,000 I have 62,000 in the TSP. And I pay the note for that is 515 a month. Only other debt we have is a house note and it's a 10 year and it's about 700 a month. So my husband thinks it's a waste of money to pay it off but I don't. I said I can just pay it off and at 515 I can save it, give it away and invest it.

And he wants, he wants you to help us to become one by helping us to figure this out. Should I pay off this tiny house? Okay, well Yvette, I think clearly in God's Word we see the warnings around Scripture. Debt is not wrong, it's not a sin, but we should purpose ourselves to be debt free. And I like the idea of you all striving to be debt free over time, including your home. I think debt for a home, an asset that's appreciating is probably one of the most wise uses if there is such a thing of debt. But I think the ability to get out of debt is going to take that pressure off. It's going to get you out of being servant to the lender and to your point you'll save the interest on it. So here's what I would do. I would strive for oneness in this area and I realize that's why you're reaching out. You and your husband pray about it. One potential compromise would be to develop a plan to get completely out of debt, if not all right now, over the next maybe two or three years and take the amount you owe and divide it up, which would mean you'd have less tax burden as well. Stay on the line, we'll talk off air.

We'll be right back. . . Hey, yeah, so my wife and I are in the process of selling our home. We met with a realtor a couple months or a couple weeks ago, I should say, went over comps and stuff and we have the potential to get roughly 40 to 50,000 worth of equity based on his estimates.

Now it's not, you know, it's not final, but so we were wondering kind of what's the best option to use for that equity. So my wife and I are both pretty young. I'm almost 30.

My wife's 30. We still have a bunch of student loan debt. About $100,000 worth. It's broken down 50,000, 30,000, 19,000 and 5,000. So what we were wondering is basically three options. One is we really want our next home to be our forever home, but that would require using all the equity as like a down payment. The other option would be maybe getting a cheaper home and use all of the equity in that and potentially, you know, get a really low monthly payment.

Or the other option would be to do a cheaper home and maybe use half of the equity towards, you know, two of the smaller student loans where we can really take advantage of those monthly payments and then use the other half as, you know, another down payment. So we're just hoping to get some wise counsel. Yeah, well, I love the way you're thinking. And it sounds like you've got great options.

You all have been diligent. I realize the student loan debt is hanging over you. You'd like to get rid of that sooner rather than later. You know, I think the first thing that jumps out at me, Ryan, is perhaps not trying to jump into this idea.

You guys are still young. You're building wealth. You've got some good equity in this house, but you have this large debt hanging over you, not trying to jump into quote unquote your forever home because that's going to require you to perhaps stretch a little bit.

You know, we don't know what the future holds. Perhaps there's an interim step here, which is kind of this next home that would still keep expenses low, give you the space you need and the area you want to be in where you can go in with, you know, hopefully at least a 20 percent down payment, maybe a little bit more using this equity that you have. Keeping your expenses and lifestyle at a minimum so you can really focus on making a concerted effort toward getting the students student loans paid off. If you were to do that, and again, not try to jump to this forever home, what do you think you would want to spend for this kind of interim home that you'd keep for the next three to five years?

That's a good question. Yeah, I mean, we were probably looking around. Right now, our monthly payment, our mortgages, you know, with escrow and all that is 800 a month. So that works really well for our budget right now. So we were looking for something that will essentially equal or be less than that. So why are you selling the current home?

Oh, that's also a good question. We so I work north of Grand Rapids, and it's just a far drive. And so we're hoping to potentially get closer to my employer.

I drive almost 40 minutes one way. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, our kids are, or my youngest is in the process of going, you know, going to kindergarten next year. So we're going to make the decision on, you know, Christian schooling or public schooling based on budget needs and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Well, I think the key is, you know, keeping your expenses right where they are, you've got a, you don't have a huge mortgage payment. You've obviously, you know, kept your lifestyle in check, which, at this point, how much are you able to put toward the student loans, hopefully something over and above the minimum payment? Well, yeah, unfortunately, right now our budget is kind of in a place where we're only paying minimums. Every now and then we get a little bit of surplus.

My wife's job, her pay fluctuates on occasion because she's hourly. So we'll end up using that surplus actually towards the smallest student loan. But for the most part, we're paying minimums on all the loans. So it really feels like we're, you know, we're trying to make this a dent. And, you know, we see all this potential equity and we're like, Oh, man, we could really use that.

So we're just, yeah. Yeah, I think the thing I wouldn't want you to do, though, is to, you know, take all this equity in the home, use it to pay off debt, I realized that would free up a monthly payment and get, you know, part of this paid off, but then you'd go into this next home without much in the way of equity. And I think at a minimum, I'd love for you to, you know, try to keep your expenses where they are, and still have, you know, at least 20% equity going into this next home. So, you know, perhaps you take 10,000 or so and, you know, maybe as much as 20 to wipe out the smallest one, assuming though, you could find a place which is probably going to be challenging, where you can still go in with a 20% down payment and keep your, you know, budget in line. Because, you know, if you're just making enough right now to pay a relatively small mortgage payment and only the minimums on the student loans, and then we're looking at the possibility of adding Christian school on top of that, it sounds like we're going to have some budget challenges. So I don't think we can increase just based on what I know today, the overall that you're spending toward the principal interest, taxes and insurance, which means you may just have to, you know, make a lateral move closer to work, but roughly the same amount, the same size home, same price point, pile that equity back in, and just wait for your income to grow, keep your lifestyle in check, live on a carefully defined and controlled spending plan. So that as your income goes up, we don't increase lifestyle, we're really focused on sending more and more to the student loans. And once we get that paid way down, then we're starting to think about, you know, jumping to this forever home because you'll have more money at that point, as the student loan payments come off. So I don't think we're making a jump to, you know, this house that's going to last you a real long time.

I think you're probably making a lateral move and piling that equity back in and just staying focused on paying the loans off as quick as you can. Ryan, we appreciate your phone call today and we wish you and your family the very best. Thanks.

Dallas, Texas. Jenny, go right ahead. Oh, hi. Can you hear me? Yes, ma'am. Oh, hi. I have a good life financially in that I have plenty to meet my expenses and I keep track of everything I spend.

And this morning, I'm single, so I've been single for four years. And I was reading in my divorce care book about the budget and how detailed some of the budgets can be. And I don't have that written out like that. And I'm just wondering, considering I have access from my pension and my Social Security each month, based on my lifestyle and pretty frugal and blessed, is it important to get like really specific with the budget? That's my first question. Should I go with this kind of detail or right now I just have like the columns with the monthly regular expenses and clothing and groceries and gas and miscellaneous house expenses, things like that. Yeah. Well, it sounds to your first question, Jenny, it sounds like you're living fairly frugally. Your budget is relatively simple. Could anyone and everyone benefit from a spending plan?

Yes, absolutely. But it doesn't have to be complex. You have to find something that's going to work for you or else it's not sustainable. And, you know, for those unless you really want to track it using a smartphone app or, you know, something like that, really the discretionary items, not the bills, but the spending portion of your budget is where things can get out of control. So, you know, once you have your, you know, utility payment every month, and you pretty much know what it is based on the season, and you know how much you're going to spend in gas and you know what the, you know, some of these more fixed expenses are going to be. Once those fit into the budget, you've done that once you can forget about them, really, in some cases, I think those categories that tend to be the problem areas are the discretionary ones, it could be, you know, it's different for each person could be eating out, it could be clothing, it could be vacations. That's where you benefit from, you know, funding an envelope either physically or virtually, and then using that as a guide to say when it's gone, it's gone. And that's all I'm going to spend for the month on those particular categories. Or, you know, for vacations, I'm going to put X amount a month in. And then, you know, based on the plans I have for the year, I'm only going to spend that amount, you know, a couple of times a year when I take a trip to see family or go away with some friends or something.

You know, but you don't have to be elaborate. Again, you want to be a careful steward of God's money. It sounds like you're doing that.

And you want to find a system that works for you. And beyond that, you know, I think anything else is unnecessary, frankly. Well, that's good. That's helpful. And by the way, thank you for your ministry. I enjoy listening to you every almost every day. Thank you, Jenny.

We've got just about 30 seconds left. Did you have just a quick follow up? OK, well, maybe I'll have to call back. I do not have that nursing home insurance.

Long term care insurance? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And partly because it's kind of a mixed bag of people saying yes, yes, it's a good idea, but more saying no, it's a waste. Yeah, OK. Well, let me just give a quick comment on that and then you hold the line.

We'll talk off air. But, you know, I'm generally in favor of it between ages 55 and 65 at 66. I'd still look at it. It's got to fit into the budget, though, because it doesn't make any sense to take on a long term care, which can be costly long term care insurance if you can. You're going to drop it down the road. So I'd start by just getting some quotes from an insurance agent who specializes in this area. So you begin to understand it and at least you've looked at it.

And if it fits into the budget, it can be well worth the expense. And, Jenny, we appreciate your call today. Thank you very much. And thank you again, as I mentioned, for tuning in and for listening and for being a part of the program. MoneyWise Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and MoneyWise Media and you, our listeners. For Rob West, I'm Steve Moore, hoping you and yours have a wonderful remainder of the day. Then join us again next time.