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The Wisdom to Show Restraint

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore
The Truth Network Radio
February 15, 2021 7:03 am

The Wisdom to Show Restraint

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore

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February 15, 2021 7:03 am

Proverbs 23 advises us to not wear ourselves out getting rich, but have the wisdom to show restraint, not trusting our own cleverness. Some sage advice to guide our investment strategies, and encourage us to have a long-range plan and stick to it. On the next MoneyWise Live, hosts Rob West and Steve Moore welcome investing expert Mark Biller to talk about how to do that. Then they’ll take calls and questions on various financial matters. The wisdom to show restraint on the next MoneyWise Live at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio. 


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Equal housing lender not licensed in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Massachusetts, North Dakota, South Dakota and Utah and not wear yourself out to get rich have the wisdom to show restraint do not trust your own cleverness cast about a glance at Rich's and they are gone. Those are some wise words to guide us with their investments from Proverbs 20 anyone can have a long-range plan for the firemen savings, but sticking to it. That's the hard part today host Rob West welcomes investing expert Mark Miller to talk about that anymore.

However, we are pretty today, so please hold your calls until next time, I'm Steve Moore the wisdom to show restraint. That's next on moneywise live Robert friend Mark delivers executive editor at sound mind investing where there always a calming voice of reason when folks are fearful or tempted to throw caution to the wind looking for quick profit will that's exactly right then that Mark always good to have you back on the program with us. Thanks guys. Glad to be back.

So today Mark were talking about a great article you have posted on the SMI website.

It's entitled the wisdom to show restraint and I guess that's in short supply right now is in it that's right you know there's a measurement of how positive stock market investors are feeling.

That's called the Citigroup panic euphoria indicator and at the beginning of this article that were talking about. We discuss how last month. This indicator showed that market sentiment was the most euphoric. It's ever been in the history of this indicator, even surpassing the reading from the previous peak which was during bubble in early 2012. Another lots of other signs of this euphoria around soon. You can look at things like that game stop frenzy that I know you talked about here on moneywise at the end of January. Now because we're particularly numbers driven at SMI we highlighted in the article. One of Warren Buffett's favorite market valuation signals.

That's the ratio between the total value of the US stock market and US gross domestic product, or GDP. So in other words, this, this ratio measures how richly valued is the stock market compared to the actual economy, which makes it a good measure to compare across time as the economy has grown over the decades.

Now this particular indicator was interesting to us because a year ago exactly one week before the COBIT 19 bear market began. We wrote an article for SMI readers that showed that this indicator had just surpassed its March 2000 peak level, which is roughly 143%. Now we fast forward to today and of course this is following a full year of these rolling lockdowns and this massive global recession were trying to fight our way out of yes. And while you'd expected this ratio would have gone down the value of the market relative to the economy might've come down just the opposite is true. It's actually soared from 143% a year ago to 192% today, while so in other words, you know, the stock market has never before in this richly valued relative to the actual economy. Yeah, well, fascinating Mark, how do you account for this, especially since parts of the economy are still in fact suffering from COBIT shutdowns and how you know it's it's usually a mistake to try to boil down the markets behavior to any single factor, but I'm not gonna let that stop me. Here the uncomfortable reality is. Today's market levels clearly are based to a large degree on the belief that the world's central bankers and governments are justifying these high valuations through low interest rates and just massive fiscal and monetary support and to their credit investors have learned over the last dozen years that when governments take these kinds of actions that were seeing today. A large portion of that support winds up driving up the prices of stocks and bonds and to be fair, governments around the whole world have never acted at this kind of scale before and to be fair, you felt like it was necessary right yeah I mean they were trying to fill in this giant pothole caused by these economic shutdowns so they they clearly had to do something well just around the corner will talk about the impact of that government induced enthusiasm and much more about these sentiment indicators, trip Miller with us today from sound mind investing.OIG discussing the wisdom to show restraint. What does the Bible say about all of this back with that anymore when moneywise live with us today host is Rob West, I'm Steve Moore.

Also joining us is always a pleasure to have Mark Miller here from sound mind, you really ought to check them out sound mind today were talking about a recent SMI article entitled the wisdom to show restraint and boy we certainly need restraint when it comes to investing in the stock market as of late and marked just before the break you were talking about this measurement of how positive stock market investors are feeling right now called the Citigroup panic euphoria indicator which has recently been through the roof and that you were talking about that. That's in part brought on by this government induced enthusiasm that really has swept the globe. As a result of the response of the COBIT shutdowns what's likely to happen as a result of all of this incredible monetary policy and stimulus. The note to be fair, we have to say anything can happen right we never know with any certainty what the future is going to hold that from these current levels. These high valuations, stock market levels that were talking about the two most likely paths forward seem to be either on the one hand, we will eventually see this market bubble pop anyway and we get the kind of deflationary bear market type of scenario that we've always seen at the end of prior episodes of significant market access and euphoria. So that's one path. The other path is that all of this government spending and borrowing ends up devaluing the value of our money to the point where the 40 year inflation cycle reverses and we start seeing higher inflation again.

Now that be very clear this doesn't necessarily mean that were talked about like 40% hyperinflation or anything like that.

But even a return to inflation of 3% 4% 5% that would be a huge change relative to what we've seen the past couple decades now. In that scenario that inflation could potentially continue to hold asset prices without there being a big decline while the real value of those assets is actually eroding little by little. Due to that inflation. Now that could potentially give away now without asset prices having to drop really significantly from current levels. Well, in that second scenario you just described, where the erosion of purchasing power is hidden, that's clearly more palatable to policymakers right absolutely no that's the outcome.

There clearly targeting with both their words and their actions. And you know they're confident that they can contain this inflation. If it should his head up, which is historically been a very dangerous game to play, but they want really at all costs to avoid letting the markets go down that deflationary path. The first path because there's a lot of pain with that, especially when you consider that in all likelihood the economy would be likely to follow that path down into another recession. Yeah. Is it really possible to be different this time and we were looking at all of the warning signs that were overvalued were 12 years into a bull market, so the cycle is ripe to rollover.

Can we actually avoid a big bear market at the end of this run up and stock prices. Yeah, that is certainly the question of the day right and and we look back to the famous investor John Templeton his famous forewarning that the words this time is different, are among the most costly words and investing yes now what most investors don't remember though is Templeton did concede that about 20% of the time. That phrase is actually true and I will I would just say that you know this time in many respects is different from the standpoint that we just have no historical precedent to compare today's level of government policy and involvement with and that does make it impossible for us to say for sure which of these two paths. Markets are going to follow.

So given that you know what we do as investors. What we do with that uncertainty, and that's where the verse from Proverbs 23 that Steve quoted at the top really says it all.

We need to have the wisdom to show restraint. A lot of investors right now are falling into the trap of blowing right past restraint as they chase future riches and returns. Right now, but that doesn't mean that we have to do that same thing. Just because the rest of the market is.

That's a good work, Mark talked to us just for another moment about this monetary policy because interest rates are supposed to be an indicator of the real risk that's embedded in the markets and the economy. But if were manipulating that art we in a sense covering up what might actually be going on behind the scenes.

Absolutely, you know, we've got a very large element of when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail going on right now with the central banks and really they have been pounding the only policy tools that they have and that they know how to use and hitting him harder and harder over the last 12 years to wear over the last year we've heard the chairman of the Federal Reserve, repeatedly punting. When asked, you know what else are you going to do what else can you do to help the economy. He's continually punting now and saying we've basically done all we can. We need fiscal policy, which is the Congress the government to come in and do their part, because from the central bank side with the interest-rate. We've done everything we can fascinating sorry Mark, we've got just a couple of minutes left. What are some tips to help investors check this impulse that were talking about and really align themselves with God's best for their investment. Yeah I would say Rob the first key to investing in in overvalued or potentially euphoric markets like we have today is to focus on the risk first and returns second and that's the opposite of what our natural tendency is when we see the market going up up and away our investment choices regarding what strategies we use the types of assets that we own that really needs to be based on the idea that another sharp downturn could happen at any time from these levels. Where were at.

And then a second kind related point would be not to take on more risk than is necessary to meet your specific goals. If you've been blessed to be in a position to meet your retirement goals with a less aggressive investment plan than what you used to have.

That's fantastic.

You know, dial back your risk so many investors lose sight of the fact especially in a hot market like this that the object isn't to build the biggest nest egg possible. It's not about beating the market quote unquote at what your goal needs to be is to be a good steward and to be able to meet your future financial needs, and a final point to help steer clear of danger is to set an ultimate finish line and then scale back your investing risk once you reach it, and that can protect you from sacrificing things you truly treasure like financial freedom and security in pursuit of things you no longer need, which is more dollars in an investment account absolutely will mark you always keep us grounded. You always have timely wisdom and analysis and were grateful for you stop by. Thanks for having me glad to be here. SMI's executive editor Mark Miller has been with us today can read his article the wisdom to show restraint when his academic sound mind investing silvery color questions coming Now. We are pretty recorded today so please hold your calls till next time you listening to moneywise live aboard. Today it's moneywise live with Rob West taking your calls. Well, actually when taking your goals today because today's program is pretty recorded but you will forgive us for that and I hope stick around because we have some interesting calls and questions all lined up. So let's begin by going to Chicago and let us thank you for your patience. How can we help.

Thank you for your program. I certainly hate the night and I certainly appreciate that Christian turned toward wonderful, thank you so my question is that I do have an adult son who is trying to establish his credit and he said that one way that it boosted credit would be if I find him on it a an additional signer.

A lot of my credit card. Yes, I know you seem wanting to use the cards Gladys or is this simply a purpose of building grant simply for the purpose of building credit yeah yeah this is in fact one way to help them. If he doesn't want to use it.

What you would do is you could add them as an authorized user but not even given the card, the lender would send a card, but he wouldn't have to be in possession of it. Now here's where it benefits you and this doesn't apply to every credit card issuer. So you'd need to check and make sure this is true for yours, but most credit card issuers will report to authorized user accounts at the three credit bureaus. So essentially, your credit would be passed on to his credit file at the three bureaus they keep in mind while your good credit helps his credit. Your bad credit may also hurt his credit, so this is not come to backfire. For some people in the sense that you know they go into it with web pristine credit and then lose a job along the way, something happens that results in a missed payment and that is also reported to the authorized users account so there is a bit of a double edge sword.

You just have to be careful. He needs to understand that reality and you do too, but assuming you know everything is good with your credit and assuming your credit card issuer does report to authorized users. Credit files then you are absolutely right, him being added in that way will give him some additional credit as a revolving account and as long as your non-type A or that's gonna be a help to them. This that make sense it does. But I just wanted to be sure that there will be no Kurt Courtney, but it sounds like it would not know as long as you don't give him the card to me. The only risk would to you would be that he has the ability legally to charge against that account you know any of the doesn't have the card if he just has the account number. He could charge things online but as long as you don't feel like that's a risk in the sense that you can trust them is not going to use it.

That's not his intention to know there is no risk to you because even if he had bad credit on other accounts. That's not in any way gonna come back to you.

The only information here is going to be related to this particular account is on level V that found that have a lot more doing okay. Thank you again I look at. Thanks Rob. I hope you don't mind me asking you this but I think met recently we mentioned in the program. It was your son's 16th birthday. So with that in mind, hopefully he's not listening. So what if he came to you and said that I'm 16. In addition to driving the car. I like my own credit card. What are you saying these days yeah you know I'm not a fan right now… Of the 16-year-old having a credit card simply because you can train all of the things you need to train with using a debit card and that's in fact what we've done with Colby my 16-year-old p.m. my 14-year-old Mason both have capital one with the coal money accounts, which is essentially a free student checking account that has a debit card and they have a great smart phone app.

Both boys do work in the sense that they referee games each season at the church and they get paid to do that and so as they get that income. It's a great opportunity for them to learn which they have what it means to tide what it means to operate on a spending plan using by the way, yes the moneywise app and had to have a debit card which I can move money back and forth on that account. So if they're going out with friends and I'm going to provide some money for dinner. I just click a couple buttons and it transfers money over to his debit card and doesn't have to carry around a lot of cash so that's the way we've handled it and were not using any unsecured credit cards like you are such a good to add. I'm so impressed, so impressed okay will before we go to the break that they can email this one comes to us from John. He says do Rob how much is the right amount of life insurance and a lot of detail there. Yeah yeah this is a great question John.

And there's something called the dime method DI MBE and it stands for debt income, mortgage, and education.

The idea being that you want enough life insurance to cover deep debt.

All outstanding debt other than your mortgage but that would typically also include funeral expenses, income you want to build or replace your income if you die in typically 10 times your annual salary is a good rule of thumb for that M is for mortgage you want to be able to have enough to pay off the mortgage and then E is for education. So if you had three children and you wanted to have an estimate of $100,000 per child. You want another $300,000 to cover education DI MD put all those together and that gives you the number you need. Here's the thing that may be a really big number. You know well in excess of $1 million.

But the good news is with term insurance. If you're healthy, you should be able to buy a good bit of insurance without a lot of expense. And if you have all of those areas covered both debt, income, mortgage, and education.

You'll put your loved ones in a position where they'll be able to provide for themselves for the rest of their lives. I like it all right and John. We appreciate that email. Thanks very much.

Now, if you have a brief a question for Rob keep it to just a couple of lines you can send that along to or of course you can call this program. 800-525-7000. But again, if you'd rather not be on the air then the address is questions@moneywise.o are and were that were going to have to pause for a second.

That's that music you hear in the back. I love that he is Rob West, I'm Steve Moore. I remember that today's program is prerecorded, don't try to call in but don't go anywhere will be back to some already previously lined up questions about you out there today listening to moneywise live with Rob West, I'm Steve Moore were not taking your calls today because today's broadcast is prerecorded, but thanks for being there for listing. We have some interesting calls lined up so let's go to Spokane, Washington, Rob and Lori, what's on your mind about have created lack and whatever you think and got our amount or in timeframe so is it a big problem to use a credit card periodically, more like a line of credit for. You suggest, well, you know, I'd rather use a savings account rather than a credit card and I realized it's easier said than done, but let me back up and explain what I mean by that.

You know, especially for somebody who self-employed who has irregular income you know during his season where you have lot of jobs and you know the monies flowing you get big paychecks and then there's certain parts of the year or depending on what's going on in the economy or your particular industry, there can be months that are lower and you gotta balance all that out.

So when I would recommend you do and it's gonna take you several months to implement this, perhaps more than several is to really get a solid budget that's based on a conservative estimate of 1/12 of what you expect to bring in over a 12 month period, and so that may mean that you dial back your spending to be able to balance that budget based on that consistent amount and then when you get those months where you have more coming in than you expect.

If you're gonna pay that out of the company you'd want to make sure you put that into savings, and then you know you can supplement and create a regular income stream out of an irregular income. But then you self fund those ebbs and flows over time as opposed to relying on a credit card I can use a credit card sure.

And yes, it is a line of credit. The problem is the moment that you can't pay it off because something doesn't materialize the way you expect in the next month when that bill comes due. Now you're paying you know 1215 18% interest. And that's really expensive money, not to mention the fact that that tells me your we don't have enough margin there and were kind of living paycheck to paycheck and so it's really symptomatic of larger issues that could spiral down word if for instance we went into it with a self-employed situation. Where you handled a longer slow down where income was under pressure and now the sudden and we don't have any reserves and so were continuing to mount credit card dad and that's just got a recipe for disaster. So it's not so much using the credit card. That's the problem it's that that's an indicator that we don't have enough in the way of reserves so I think the question is what would it take right now for you all to get to a place where you could start to build up a couple of months 3 to 6 months worth of expenses over time, but for right now. Even just one months worth of expenses in a savings account. What changes would you need to make to create that margin and then we get that budget right, how can we smooth out the amount of money coming in that your living on so you don't have quite the ebb and flow and challenges that that you might have otherwise it does that make sense Lori and now it any way that basket where we have been putting absolutely everything and getting out at night and let him have you meant that extra money set aside that cart ride and I think part of my other question how do you make a good bet it when your money. It so yeah I think that's where you've got to go back and look at the last six months and say or even 12 months, or both, and say what would we bring in over this 12 month period.

Would we bring over the six month period and then let's divide that by six or 12 and get a realistic conservative amount to build our budget on once you do that, then you need to factor in what you know about kind of the go forward. Are you heading into a period where you know during the winter months in your business. I don't know what it is but I'm just can it speculate in the winter months. It's lower than the summer and so we need to plan for that work. We know that the our particular segment of the economy has been hit by the pandemic and so were going to have season where business is down for a period of time you got a factor all that in. But starting with the historical to get that conservative baseline not based on a one or two month slice of time, but based on a six or 12 month slice of time is really the key thing I want to do is I want to give you a six month Pro subscription to our new moneywise app.

It's the it's the envelope system, but in an apt form. It will help you build that budget and you can create multiple plan so you can create a plan for this month, but also for February and March and you can plan out and then as the money comes in. You can allocated to your envelopes and I think that'll really help you manage this whole process. So stay on the line. My producer will get your information and will get you a free six month subscription of the moneywise Pro app which you can download in your app store Lori that's a great call in the great question and I hope that helps you today.

Thank you very much we appreciate that in a row before we put a bow on it and hit the next break we have an email from Rob.

He says a dear Robin, Steve, I'm interested in becoming one of your volunteer financial coaches. Where do I begin. Yes, well, I'm so glad you asked because we do have a thriving moneywise coach ministry where were able to help men and women who listed this broadcast couples. Individuals who are looking to get on a spending plan would come alongside you for 6 to 10 weeks at no cost other than a small amount for an electronic workbook that will use that to walk alongside you as you set up the spending plan teach you a few of these key biblical financial principles and help you get that whole tracking system in place.

If you would like to learn how to be a coach you can do that on our website. Just go to moneywise moneywise and there's a button there that says become a coach, you get all the information you need including when the next course will be and I understand were kicking off some courses here in the next month or so, so we'd love to have your part.

We have some people who do this for us and it's an nationwide ministry correct that's exactly right that we cover the entire country. Even up in the candidate because all these coaching sessions are done virtually so it's a great way to have ministry in this area. If this is an area of interest and passion for. You want to serve God's people by being a volunteer in helping them navigate this really key area of managing God's money, I become a moneywise coach again moneywise just click become a coach and to clear up any confusion. Hopefully I will be causing any confusion.

There is a difference between a budget coach and a certified kingdom advisor and often we point people in that direction as well. But these are two separate entities, and one is a professional certified kingdom advisor. They do what they do for living in their certified and they have many years of experience.

The budget coaches. That's a ministry and it basically helps people with with well basic stuff budgeting getting out of debt to learning how to budget, things like that right what exactly right yes or certified kingdom advisors are in fact professionals working in one of five disciplines, financial planning, investment management, insurance, tax and accounting and then estate planning.

So yeah all professionals working in this area with lots of experience and they been trained to be specialists and biblically wise financial advice. On the other hand, moneywise coaches are in fact volunteers doing this is a ministry primarily Steve and help you with setting up a spending plan giving plan is very much rough, blessed, and I of course semi-professionals do the best we can just manager in June with the funds for brief break that make you happy with us today moneywise live. Today's program is trying to call in but let's say hi to Janice in Chattanooga Tennessee what's on your mind Janice sure how to handle my granddaughter and she for about $40 per day, and I'm not sure how to need to give her some money. I don't. I may and that she should make that match to be up to eight, term seeming to figure out whenever I get her or she needs to give a 40 going to tell her she, 41, she could be able to carry out the next guy last more than one start it's very stressful and I just don't know how to narrow.

I got know how to yes yes will Jenna set my heart goes out to you because I know that we love our kids and their grandkids and we want to do what they want to do. It's like reading God's word. You know, just like the father loves to give us gifts we love to give gifts to write, but at the same time. What he knows about us is what we also need to know about our kids and grandkids that sometimes giving them what they ask for is not serving them well and not in their best interest, and I think what we have to do is be able to step back and say I love you and I want to give you good things but I also know what's best for you and I need to teach you because I'm preparing you as a future adult and that includes things like resources are limited and we have to live on a planned and that plan has more than just one category. It's probably got 15 or 18 categories of things you have to take God's limited resources and allocate to and there is just healthy eating and living that goes along with that too. And so kind of in all of that and in your family dynamic of how your providing is a grandmother and you know how she's going about getting her meals and how many of them are home and how many of them are outside the home. You know, there needs to be some real thought to that that is not driven by her wants driven by really her needs to be eating healthy and your financial resources. God's resources that you're managing and I think as you step back from that and say what is best for her. That needs to be the starting point and asked God to give you wisdom in that and I think coming up.

I think she's on to something here, it's a daily amount, but it's not 40 dockworkers so I think we've got to go back and say how do we create a weekly plan and perhaps you plan out the meals you know not to get to find a detail here, but create a weekly plan that says how many meals are to be in the home and what are those and how many meals are to be outside the home and where is she eating what she putting into her body and how much did that cost and come up with an amount, perhaps for the weaker she's not old enough to handle that you per day, but I'd I if she's not old enough to handle it per week. It might be a good lesson because if she ran through it and you say I'm sorry it's out and so you're now going to have to know find things in the refrigerator because you're done, your that's good. The teacher really important lesson that will pay dividends for the rest of her life and so I think you've gotta do it out of love and a desire to train and equip and model the right behavior before the Lord and when it gets hard.

I think that's what you have to come back to because saying no is never easy but when you saying no because you know it's in her best interest. It does make it a little bit easier, but you've got it. You gotta be really firm. Once you make this decision on this is what it is and it'll get easier, but only if you can stick to it because the moment you start to give then all of a sudden she realizes wait a minute if I push hard enough I'll get my way and you know then you're going to have a battle on your hands. Just about every day. So I think you need this step away from it. Pray make an educated decision. Come up with a set amount and then go back to her and sit down and say for these reasons, this is what you have available. This is what the week. As you look like related to food and will him to help you but let's work a plan that lives within that because there is no more money it. It's just not there and that you might as well not even ask, does that make sense Janice tried to try and one thing that will help the audience and she did a U-turn and she was out with Patty made it which to make sure cakes are blind or lack back to be teaching her response and setting her up to fail, because I think perhaps 90 give me a receipt you get now Manny and Manny because he didn't give me restate that's right as long as you can stick to it because if you're gonna put the rules in place and you're going to allow them to be broken. You would be better if you didn't put the rule in place in the for in the first place. So you've got to be committed to really following through on what it is you decide Steve O'Regan and Janice. I a parent and grandparent and I I'm just like to suggest that maybe there's something good in giving her all the money for the week that Seo may be released Monday through Friday five days. Yes, there is the there is the chance that you will spend it all in two days instead of stretching it out over five or six, but it will give her an opportunity to learn how to handle money.

The fact that it's in my hand doesn't mean I can spend that I've got to work up some sort of a budget. And yes, that can be hard to difficult to but again were trying to teach and I think if you tell her just as often as you already do.

How much you love her that we just pray that that'll come around but great question. Great comments and insights on your part and will pray that things work out well, you let us that you keep us posted on that. God bless you. Thanks so much as St. Cloud, Minnesota, Mohammed, how can we help user what your question, what about you very very well. And I feel what I thought you three take you to keep in mind that usury isn't lending money, its lending money at an exorbitant interest rate so the Old Testament prohibited charging interest, except to foreigners and then not excessively so, Jesus didn't condemn charging interest in Luke 23, the parable of the 10 minus while this was a reference in a parable and doesn't necessarily imply approval. It seems unlikely he'd use a positive illustration when he believed that was wrong so I think what we take away from that is charging interest per se isn't wrong it's appropriate for living lending institutions, but only the exception that is not for individuals if there loaning to fellow believers to help them meet their needs so that the interest is charged.

Again, not to a fellow believer, but outside of that, it should be no more than the current yield you call it inflation rate or prime rate you know we don't want to be exorbitant and you know in the in the fair credit reporting act in the year. What we saw is that user re-replaced truth in lending so you don't used to be that it was usury couldn't happen. And then when they went to truth in lending. As long as they disclosed what the interest rate was they could charge whatever they want and so was a move away from this biblical concept that we see so I think what the key here. The big take away is nothing wrong with charging interest. We should not do it with a fellow believer.

But if we do charge interest. It should never be at an exorbitant interest rate beyond what would be normal and customary for the day. I think those are the big ideas we see in Scripture as we apply kind of the ancient times to the modern day Mohammed rear would lead you call today is not a question we get very often but it's it's an interesting one to say the least, and Rob. So again, usury is not even that term is used all that often these days, but that's that's not just interest.

That's an exorbitant amount of interest unless of course we're talking about fiduciary responsibility that a banker someone like that would have right yet again user is all about the exorbitant interest rate charged to another, and so we don't want to take advantage of someone based on their financial condition or where there add to their their desperate need for money and often times we do that we see. That's called predatory lending. This is another term for it, but essentially it's usury, and we see that the term in the Bible and it essentially means the same thing today know about one aspect of managing our money welcomes up all the time on the set program and that's well managing our money.

The actual act of budgeting, savings, spending doing it with the plan and that's where the money wise app comes into play that something that was really in your heart for the last couple of years is something that you were able to put into play with just a little bit of time tell us about that. Yeah, and we have the new moneywise app and it's really focused on providing a digital envelope experience or you can download all of your transactions connect to your institutions and have a way to track God's money in the tried-and-true envelope method of doing so. Which basically says at any given time. What's left in my envelopes and that then governs my spending and putting it in the palm of your hand in the form of smart phone app or a tablet just makes it really easy and convenient. So you'd like to check it. I would love for you to do that you can find it in your app store. With this the Apple App Store the Google play store to search for moneywise biblical flight. Thank you. Well that's it for today moneywise live.

This program is a partnership between Moody radio and moneywise media in the force your partner as well. That very very very much hope you have a great remainder of the day come back and join us again next

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