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February 5, 2021 7:03 am
In 1901. A woman by the name of Annie Taylor climbed into a barrel that she could ride that barrel over Niagara Falls.
The first person to do so. The reason for her crazy endeavor.
She was struggling to make ends meet and she was hoping for fame and financial security, it's Ryan from United faith mortgage of faith and family mortgage scene that tries to improve your financial outlook without having to ship you over a 170 foot waterfall. Our mortgage scene happens to be an arm of a bigger company, was a direct lender, which means our company gets use its own money and make its own decisions within its own walls. There is no middleman. This advantage often allows us to get you a better rate, which can save you monthly and lifelong money through a refinance or help with the cash out refinance cashing out some of your home's equity to use for life. We are United faith mortgage. Another faith mortgage is a DBA of United mortgage Corp. 25 Millville Park Rd., Millville, NY license mortgage banker for licensing information, go to MLS consumer access.org corporate MLS number 1330.
Equal housing lender not licensed Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Massachusetts, North Dakota, South Dakota and Utah, and in Matthew 516 Jesus says let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your father who was in heaven.
As believers we must glorify God and all we say and do what does that apply to investing will today host Rob West talks with Jason Meyer of Eventide about faith-based investing that glorifies God then we did some calls from all across the country. However, today's edition of the program is not live.
We are, I'm Steve Moore, a bigger vision for investing.
That's nice right here on moneywise live Bob Eventide is an investment company that specializes in faith-based investing and the financial underwriter of this program. Our guest Jason Meyer is here today to help us understand the important of faith and values when we invest. Well, something we always look forward to and Jason delighted to have you back on the program you Jason. Faith-based investing may be a brand-new idea to some of our listeners, so I'd love to begin the day by just having you explain how you introduce the idea.
I like to start by explaining what's happening when we show at the most basic level investing can be thought of company ownership or money will go to company and in return we get ownership in the company and ownership of what you write the course to receive any of the profit growth that might come in the future sexually while inducting right you get that dream inducting a company ownership should invite will one of the company owning here. The problem is that most of us really have no idea if you typical person you know what company paid on their IRA, 401(k), look at you with a blank stare. And the reason for that is that both of don't pick the company cleaned.
After that we used investment products. Things like where companies are chosen for us by someone else, a portfolio manager or a team of investors really the value proposition you think about the product something like that. You have the time, interest or skill to companies for yourself so, but I feel for you Percy look very happy with that arrangement and until we really don't have any idea what company for investing in the right and going back to your original idea investing is ownership and given the idea that we then hire somebody in many cases to make those decisions for us. That leaves us with a pretty big question doesn't really be hired to companies that do they share our belief, our value in our ethical commitment to the kinds of companies that we would choose herself if we had the time & skill to do it or are they simply focus on the bottom line looking for profitable companies and actually work faith-based investing comes down you are investing with someone who shares your beliefs, values, and commitments that you can save your money for the future in ways that you can about the Christian perspective. Obviously, what were saying that is through traditional investing.
We can end up owning companies that are at odds with her for the exact McKay. There are a number of common problem areas that we can come into investing reflective of the number of problem areas exist in the wider world so companies are gambling companies to profit from pornography or portion. This unfortunately a pretty long list and that really the case with virtually every mutual fund traditional mutual fund account will have exposure to one or more of these problem areas so we got just about a minute left before first break I want to turn the corner because based investing doesn't have to be simply eliminating a few problem areas right right I think if you're starting from the place of traditional investing start with the negative and to create really a list of things to avoid what the minimum I have to do here to keep a clear conscience whenever I investing really. I think that darting from the wrong end of the spectrum, I think that similar to Israel trying to earn righteousness by meeting the legal requirements of the law provision should be something much more positive or starting on the other end of the spectrum, and really looking for companies that are well aligned with God's mission in the world love our neighbors and we want to make a positive impact in the world after the break to share some real examples of what that type investing can look like faith-based investing lines that and much more with her friend Jason Meyer back and chat some more.
However, today's broadcast mind pause briefly and then back this is moneywise live with us today discussing the subject.
We talked about before. Faith based investing. Often people think that's avoiding that are in sync with Jesus in the Bible, but it's much, much net and Jason Meyer with us today to help us think through this. Jason is with Eventide will tell you more about them later in the program.
Jason let's pick up on that idea that Steve just mentioned, you know, we can certainly exclude or eliminate companies that are in conflict with our values, but faith-based investing is much more than that help us understand that idea. We were talking about capping a positive vision for ducting white short friend of mine, former financial advisor.
Try to think about yourself. God portfolio manager great really happening. We have a Christian perspective that God has entrusted with his money management on his behalf. According to his priorities.
Now course because God is generous, he allowed to use this money to provide for our needs and needs of our family, but the goal is to get rich off of it right it is to strategically avoid money to advance God's kingdom in this life. I thought stream that account but I really do believe that the case I think we need to think about our investments with Christian imagination and how to use the money entrusted to seeking to maximize treasures in heaven, not to treasures on earth, and I think faith-based investing should be about inducting to meet the needs of the world is a compelling vision Jason about how our investments should be about as you said, meeting the needs of the world, not just maximizing financial returns look for you to share some real examples with us about what that looks like because that then begins to make it real for us in the context of the actual investments we can take advantage of you.
I love telling the story. Ample area of water technology and clean water, clean water is actually still a major problem for a lot of people in the world today before kind of describing how how bit bigger, and helpful to know the definition. So what is it mean when we say someone has access to clean water.
What that mean that according to global standards. There is a source of clean water within 1 km of our home were able to obtain 20 rear of clean water for every member of her household. Now think in terms of leader 20 L 12 if you took a shower today. Your typical American you use 65 L of water in here about 20 L per personal hygiene. But for all purposes, drinking, cooking and cleaning and so the calibrator felt how big the problem of water in about 1.6 million people die every single year due to diarrhea.
Obviously, most of the cases coming from contaminated water and 90% of the case of our children on the age of five dirty water is actually the second largest killer children in the world don't realize that you know there at about 800 million people will not have access to clean water by the year 20 2500 people and 33 million people have what are called high-intensity worm infection from drinking contaminated water. Big problem here and in most of the world water is actually considered women's work is important because girls are often not allowed to go to school because they're so preoccupied with Getting clean water for family care about women's issues in the world you have to care about clean water, and there are many places in the world where water is reaching crisis levels so places like India, for example, scarcity is causing people basically to line up in cues for multiple hours a day to fetch even a small amount of water, their families, you can appreciate what a big problem with it now. The world actually have a lot of water is difficult access. So either locked up in the ocean with saltwater or underground or in glaciers. If you look at the amount of surface water we have available toxic something very very small, the opportunity would be to apply technology investment in infrastructure to sources like groundwater. This would be a tremendous advance in the world. So we decided to do my company is actually to adapt and what we believe in the leader in water technology both in the developed world, but also in the developing world actually have a 2025 goal to provide clean water to at least 20 million people living at the very bottom of the global economic term at the poorest of the poor will be pretty company match five natural donations to my company about 25 million towards clean water projects and hundreds of thousands of dollars employee voluntary. So here's a way we can invest in a for-profit way to meet one of the biggest need to adjust the world. It's incredible and it's amazing to hear that this need is being mad by a for-profit investable company than most folks don't realize they have access to investing in a company that's meeting a need this big. Would you mind sharing one more story. If you have an about to what this can look like faith-based investing example about that medical need in the area you're familiar with any kind of a difficult of the two. Get your mind around known by a set of symptoms. If you look at the symptom. The hallmark symptoms are delusion and hallucinations so people the things they will hear things often on the wall talking to them telling them something very dark and the people that we would be inclined to say are crazy. You walked on the streets of Boston Grande, you would see many people like that and it's actually a vast problem among the homeless is one of the main drivers for homelessness and it affects a lot more people than we think.
About 3 million Americans, which is about 1% of the population treatment. We have our ancient 1952 with the latest treatment they barely work and they have horrible side effects.
Basically no recourse and the World Health Organization ranks as the third most debilitating to the huge problem that I think all of us can appreciate this well, we've been watching the faith for a long time and decided to adopt a healthcare company that was developing new treatment time.
I think you all the details of the clinical trial what they were able to demonstrate a dramatic reduction sometimes over the course of a phase 2 clinical trial with both the clinician they said the amount of improvement. Patients on the proposed therapy with the game changer that it would revolutionize someone's life. Get the party that this is amazing right we get to be a part of the story about helping heal a mental disease and potentially even addressing the problem of homelessness in the world and while we hope for a good financial results course of the investors. Think about what this story represents in terms of blessing to our neighbor in advancing the character of God in the world at my company we call the kinds of stories investing that makes the world rejoice sin. These are two incredible stories based investing as we started today. Yes, based on the conviction, we could certainly screen out companies that are in conflict with our values but we can also take it to a whole new level and invest in companies. As you said that her investing companies that are as you said, making the world rejoice and who wouldn't want to be a part of that. Jason, thanks for stopping by today. Jason Meyer from Eventide has been our guest today and find out more about faith-based investing investing Eventide.com listening to moneywise live but today we're not lives so if you hear that phone number. Please don't call look to stick around. Lots of good information and real pleasure to have you with us today. This is moneywise live times more that other guy over there. The guy with the answers he's run less than work with us on the program.
Today, however, we are pre-recorded. We will be taking your calls but we've lined up some calls in advance that I think you'll find interesting, helpful, and the practical, at least we've tried to make them that way so stick around.
This is moneywise live let's go directly to our phones. I let's begin Rob by going out to Missouri. Speaking of fair game and shaking.
I understand you want to buy some hunting land is okay what's here what you question what your situation will thank you for taking my call and I couldn't show your program but yeah yes land or my dad one wondered if I would want to go in and partner with Brian and I didn't know that the long-term outcome will man if it would be a good investment and you know just sure tell me a little about your situation first. If you don't mind Shane just in terms of you living on a spending plan.
Do you have an emergency fund. And maybe thirdly are you saving for the long-term. Okay, tell me about my I like about 3000 a month. My while she makes around 60 years so and we have an hour a 40 she's 41 so very good and are you putting money away just in the IRAs.
Are you saving through company-sponsored plan of some kind. Will she is disabled right now so that's that are sorry to hear that it telling that any debt that you have a week. We do have some dad from I'd say her student loan a car thousand and an expedition okay any credit card debt. Very little.
Okay so you living on a spending plan. You have a good account of what your monthly expenses are both what I'll call the discretionary the nonrecurring expenses but also the monthly bills do you have that written down in the attractive flow of money in and out each month. Not really track it with free will know know where everything goes okay tie things in any given month, do usually have some left over at the end of the month okay very good and you making some progress toward the student loan telling you things can take to pay that off. Will the student loan debt is she the teacher so that supposed to be for quick forgive and she said so how that works. So she's on track over 10 years to have been forgiven and she's done her homework to make sure that she qualifies for that the best you understand okay very good so from your standpoint, you really feel like you're on track to be debt-free. You got this car loan, but you you mentioned that you are saving for retirement both in the form of an IRA as well as to her company-sponsored plan. I let's talk about the land in a land can be a fine investment. It's not my first choice for somebody who's trying to put together a well diversified long-term savings plan and get a return on that just because it tends to be somewhat illiquid. There are number of factors related to raw land and in terms of how they're going to appreciate depending upon whether or not there's infrastructure there. Whether or not it's accessible by the various roads that need to be put in if if there aren't any currently whether there's any ongoing development of the single-family homes or other dwellings in that area and whether those are going to be desirable. So this just really a number of considerations, and for most folks are still kind of building their financial foundation trying to get out of debt trying to save for the future handling their monthly expenses doing their giving all of that, it really would be not my first go to if or just looking at it as an investment. I'd rather see invest in the stock and bond market with a well diversified portfolio and if you wanted to move into real estate. I'd rather see you go toward something that's more income generating as opposed to just raw land.
Now if you're buying it for another purpose, such as a hobby you're going to farm the land you're going to hunt the land, whatever it might be that's completely different but help me understand whether it's really in your mind, truly something you're doing as an investment versus something that's really just a hobby that you want to have some fun. Is not this early investment expert actually running it varies mainly created or is okay so then I think the question is are you financially in a position to buy this set piece of property for a hobby and I is is this a good idea at this point in your life given you. You guys are 40 you're trying to make some progress in your financial life. Do you have the financial wherewithal to do this and I would say you know I think long and hard about that. Especially if you're going to have to take on some debt to do it but do you have the money saved up to make this purchase.
Even if you're going in with somebody or are you planning to borrow to do it will be about oral okay so I'd be hesitant there without really taken a long hard look at your priorities. I'd start you and your wife sitting down safe. What are our values and, ultimately, our goals, I give that some prayerful consideration what we want to do in terms of our lifestyle in terms of our giving in terms of our long-term and short-term savings goals. The things that are important to us.
If you have kids saving for college. Those kinds of things and as you look at those things I would look at where this fits into that. Nothing wrong with buying a piece of property to hunt on. That's great, but I just want to make sure that it fits into your overall plan and that if you have to take on some debt to do it that you understand the implications of that that most certainly you want to make sure that is something it's can appreciate that as if you're married that you and your wife are completely in agreement on that and that you have the backing to do. What if you lost your job, so I look at all those things. Give it some prayerful consideration before you move forward in Shane we wish you the best with that. I've been googling while you been talking it doesn't look like a huge moneymaking proposition.
If you have to buy the land. Thanks for listening to a best of broadcast of moneywise why this program is pretty recorded.
Please hold your questions or you can email us at firstname.lastname@example.org email@example.com moneywise I trying to determine what God's plan is for your life and your finances and you want our opinions.
I really want God's opinion. Thankfully he's given us his thoughts and opinions and directives in his word of the Bible and that's where we begin that process of figuring these things out back to our phones, Aurora, Illinois, and Jasmine, thanks for your patience. What's on your mind will mom, boy and that and very low income may recant McIvor and literally translating tactile and covert family and that pre-much good in credit card every month and now are going for 90 minute and that I'm trying to figure out what that's about to go out in a 401(k) which had yet divorced men by better to go with that management or order statement for Mikey. When done with the word. I'm not quite sure what direction it out for the future. Jasmine, I'm sorry to hear about the situation. I know this is a lot of pressure on you. You're trying to be a mom to these three boys are trying to provide you got a lot in the way of debt, and financially. I realize this can just feel like a huge weight and so first of August want to encourage you. It sounds like you're doing an incredible job managing all of this, none of this caught God by surprise, and he is your provider and so organized moneywise community to be praying for you will certainly do that before we finish today and I'm really really glad you called and tell me think the credit card debt of 45,000 is that all going to be your responsibility. Or is there still some question as to how that is to be done on my where I met and sure, but the child support as you said is Artie been determined right at you know that people have been out looking reaching out to me that right at the top of port with you like it turned out that it actually majority according you let me greet with the calculation right.
Know that we something that that job now is okay. Do you have a sense Jasmine what you need to bring in each month to cover all of the fixed and discretionary expenses to be able to cover your taxes to be able to cover the minimum service on the debt plus those small read about your paying. Do you know what that is 4000 okay and what you averaging right now. Right now, how about retail yell whenever Mac had no relevant more now.
Okay, so the gap between the 3200 4000 that you really need on a monthly basis of roughly 800 a month.
You're just month-to-month try to figure that out. Where is that going you building up and accruing additional credit card debt is is your husband able your ex has been able to step in and help that his family, helping with that.
Where where is that going on at like maybe a call right now. I think the last $1800 and for any part really bad top part number which I might find back my little guy I work another week. I don't get vacation or sick, literally like a buildup of things happening now but we gotta turn a corner here, obviously. And certainly we don't want to file bankruptcy as a last resort. You won't find it in God's word is a modern legal term that we created, and there may be a situation where you're forced into that because there's simply no other option that doesn't mean you can't go back and as the Lord provides over time repay all of this debt because we know we should have an absolute commitment to repay as believers, but I understand your laced with what is reality right now in front of you and you just have to take one step at a time. Trust the Lord. Ask him to provide.
Let's see how he does that even miraculously along the way. Let's take the steps you can take but at some point that may become your only option if it is, you can navigate that from a godly perspective as well two things. Number one is does your church know about your situation. Have they stepped in to help as their real understanding there of of what you're facing, and perhaps could they be of some assistance.
I have a church I'm going to let my I got out on every week and I usually work all day on the weekend.
Well I'm really I'm really losing out on the church family person now looking you died, family Lambright well I would really encourage.
I realize you got to get your hours and you're trying to drive and pay the bills and all that but I would really encourage you to start to invest in the body of Christ there locally where you can build some relationships you can get to know some people you need a support system right now more than ever, and certainly family can be that and it sounds like they are, but you also need a church family that can rally around you as well. Not only financially, although I think that's a part of it but just relationally helping with the kids things like that and I think there really is no replacement for that.
Even if you have to stop driving for you know 90 minutes on a Sunday morning and then you jump right back in. I realize you're doing what you have to do to pay the bills but I really encourage you to prayerfully consider where the Lord might plant you and then see what you can do to invest there and make your needs. Now let them know what your situation is because again that's part of the role of the body of Christ. I think beyond that, I would love for you to start with Christian credit counselors. You can visit with them a Christian, credit counselors.org there to start by helping you do a budget and give you some real solid counsel to know personal, what with the interest rates be on the credit cards.
Can you afford to make the payment that I can put you into a debt management program. If you can't, and could we get you headed in the right direction because obviously you need to get to a place where you've got at least a minimum of the thousand or $1500 as an emergency fund because we know things are going to happen. The car, whatever else it might be that you can have to fall back on, and any cards that go into a debt management program organ to be canceled. So let's start there. If they say no we can't help you. This is you're not a candidate for debt management will then we need to look at some other options and again you may have to go the bankruptcy route, even though that doesn't absolve all of the debts in terms of your really think desire and obligation to pay that back as a believer.
So start there and then Jasmine reach back out to us. Let us know how that turns out.
And let's take it from there and before illegibility just asked the Lord to be with you right now.
Father, we just look Jasmine and her three precious boys up to you. We know this is a difficult situation and yet Lord, you are on the throne you are her creator. You are her provider. You're right there so I pray that you would just give her wisdom you give her discernment.
I pray you would provide even miraculously print the name of Jesus that people would just respond in an unexplainable way just to help out this family need for we just commit her to you.
We trust you. We look forward to hearing how you're going to work in the situation and will be sure you get all the glory for that father we ask all this in Jesus name amen S you Jasmine thank you so much for calling us listening to moneywise but today we're not lives so if you hear that phone number. Please don't call but to stick around. Lots of good information today. This is the calling program. However, moneywise is live today we are ported. We hope to stick around. We have some things coming up. I think not only surprise you but will bless you and you will find well tell you Steve, I love to take just a moment before we go back to the phones and just talk about the opportunity that exists to come alongside moneywise media the moneywise radio programs and be a partner, you know, we come to you each day only because of the generous support of our moneywise patrons and partners. These are individuals. Perhaps like you that count on moneywise you listen to the program by appointment. You are take advantage of calling in when you have a question you're a frequent visitor to moneywise live.org our website and to take advantage of the resources, thereby the way there. Many of them you availed yourself of a question for a coach or perhaps you've engaged one on one with one of our volunteer coaches. Whatever it is we would just ask for you prayerfully to consider partnering with us financially beyond the giving you due to your local church. Could you give monthly or maybe one time, whatever that looks like for you pray about it if you're married, talk to your spouse and then click or call you can do that easily and quickly by going to our website moneywise live.org and just clicking the donate button or you can give us a call at any time at 800-525-7000 and talk to one of our volunteers who would love to help you take your gift over the phone but however you want to do it we would just be grateful that you be willing to stand with us in by the way, would you pray for us as well as we do God's work here on the front line sharing his truth about managing his money that we can't do without you. That is for sure, go back to our phones even though again today's broadcast is prerecorded. Joe in Miami.
How can we help user might call you many times over the years and not my call. Thank you so what's going on. I put my house about seven years ago I paid for cash because that's all the property up north when I relocated here and I have my cars pay for no credit card debt. I was really doing well then, if you think the capital along the way. In the last 70 stock and the stock tank and I just recently lost about $80,000 so I got a couple things to share with you. I had a home equity credit which I took a while back. It was interest only 6% and right now that that balance is about $72,000 and I got about 25,000 credit card debt of 14% and I got car loans. About 18,000 1/2% just one about the same rate. So the combined payment of those credit card in the car loans is about $1073 a month.
Okay, my home equity line my payment interest-only is 60 so I learned that I can refinance that line of credit. There is the first right now going have a lot of 2009. 72 at 6%. I can refinance a 30 year principal and interest. I got him a big 480 just a little slightly above my interest-only current and the extra dollars from that 70% of hundred. I would pay off my caramel hike credit card which I don't secure the credit card. I will be securing it but it would alleviate thousand dollars in cash flow for me and that's where I'm at right now I'm struggling that decision because I part you guys talk about this before but I just want to share that with you by Joe I appreciate all the background that's really helpful. Just as did you borrow the money on the home equity line of credit for the investment I did not I was buying and selling turned out that weight way I had borrowed and paid back over the years, and at one point it was kind of a wash.
I had the same amount in my investment account, money and lost count. So it was that use the money from the line of credit hurricane impact window now. I was about $30,000. I my wife somebody vacation. Well here's my concern. Joe yeah on paper, it makes sense for you. The first will you got the right size. Your monthly budget. We gotta get to where you got a detailed accounting of what it's going to take to find your family, starting with not your discretionary and and fixed expenses. But starting with what it what you will want to do on the monthly basis in the area of giving what you want to do on a monthly basis in the area of saving and for what purposes, what are your what is your effective tax rate meaning when you look at your income and you divide by the amount of taxes you paid last year we got a cover that.
Beyond that, we wanted to be reducing any debt that you have not counting your mortgage and arose you don't have a first mortgage, but let's say we did this and then what is it take to fund your lifestyle both fixed and discretionary expenses and all of that is going to then tell us what income you need to be able to do all of those things build up pay off completely your dad to give to save to cover your taxes and to live. My concern is that because of some of the things you've done in the past. In terms of pulling out money against the house said with a variable-rate pan interest-only play in the stock market which I would encourage you not to do any more moving forward because really that kind of speculation is not supported in Scripture, we should be steady plotters. We shouldn't use a get-rich-quick scheme and that really is what that is unless your professional investor and that would be a very small percentage of the people that really make that are skilled or trained in that area probably work for an institution, not on their own, and I really have the ability to do that. So my fear would be that we roll all of this into a new 30 year mortgage would string it out over the next 30 years you the pressure would come off and guess what you'd be right back.
In this position six months from now are the debts back probably in the form of credit cards because you haven't really dealt with the underlying issue. So help me understand how you would account for that and what you would do differently moving forward. If you paid all this often had a fresh start with a new first mortgage so that I appreciate the feedback. So I will spreadsheet on my expenses down to table water property taxes to all my credit card will spreadsheet of all my expenses on putting away 6% of my income, which is not 6% of my employer about 150,000 in my 401(k) and other money right now, some not not take paycheck and I do.
I do have right now in overage of income of about $800 a month savings.
After putting the site of the attractive insurance of the property. All that they separate what this would do it. It would free up an additional $5000 and Mike Michael would be to double up on that mortgage to pay down automatic payment process.
I would not let that money get paid right back to the mortgage to cut it down early.
Okay well I'm a border that I think the key is you really need to demonstrate to yourself that you can do everything you just said on a monthly basis before you move forward with this.
I would not roll the carload into that I would go after that. Separately, I try to keep this mortgage as low as possible what you think the value of the home is today, about 50,000.
Okay, so I would only consider at this point, doing the home equity loan and this credit card debt role that in but then really focus on. First of all, paying off that car and then take that extra money and plow it back into this mortgage at least one extra payment a year if not more than that and I know you said you looking to double and every month which would be great, but also factor in the other goals that you have along the way. Make sure you're tracking the flow of money in and out so I'm comfortable with this, so long as you can really follow through on this plan and if for some reason you start to see some credit card debt built up that you're not paying off that I'd like you to cut those cards up and and not certainly go down that path again, we appreciate your call today the Lord bless you. Thank you Joe very much and arrive use the term that some of her callers sometimes use. I occasionally play the stock market. Oh, what do they typically mean and and what do you read into that when you hear that terminology well I think this is somebody who either just as a hobby or or perhaps with a certain amount that they've carved out or with the substantial portion of their long-term savings are really trying to move in and out of the market to catch and arising equity meaning a stock where they can buy write it up and then sell it.
The problem is you have to have yet be able to predict the future in order to do that and that just historically and through all the studies that have been done on that type of approach is not a winning strategy to high risk you're knocking to do as well. Over the long term, you should be steady plotters and follow the counsel Scripture that means a well diversified long-term investment strategy of at least 5 to 10 years, not 5 to 10 days biting me right well speaking of being a steady plotters.
There is no man, that's a greater proponent of that biblical principle that our good friend Howard Dayton, the founder of compass and he talks about that and much much more. In his book, money, and marriage God's way. So I guys, ladies, if you have a difficult time speaking with your spouse about money and finances, particularly at this time of year when were doing a lot of spending because of the holidays I encourage you to pick up a copy of this book, money, and marriage God's way, you'll find really practical timeless biblical information that will help you communicate better with your spouse and really maximize your spending or saving your investing and living God's plan for your financial life you'll find it available for purchase. When you visit our website moneywise like.org moneywise I.org check this out today. I thanks to our technical team, Judy, Amy, Aaron and Jim for their substantial help. My thanks to you for listening in today. Please tell a friend to join us again next time will be back with a brand-new edition of moneywise live