A Bigger Vision for Investing

In 1901, a woman by the name of Annie Taylor climbed into a barrel so that she could ride that barrel over Niagara Falls, the first person to do so. The reason for her crazy endeavor?

She was struggling to make ends meet and she was hoping for fame and financial security. It's Ryan from United Faith Mortgage, a faith and family mortgage team that tries to improve your financial outlook without having to ship you over a 170-foot waterfall. Our mortgage team happens to be an arm of a bigger company who is a direct lender, which means our company gets to use its own money and make its own decisions within its own walls.

There's no middleman. This advantage often allows us to get you a better rate, which can save you monthly and lifelong money through a refinance, or help you with a cash-out refinance, cashing out some of your home's equity to use for life. We are United Faith Mortgage. United Faith Mortgage is a DBA of United Mortgage Corp. 25 Melville Park Road, Melville, New York. Licensed mortgage banker. For all licensing information, go to nmlsconsumeraccess.org. Corporate NMLS number 1330, equal housing lender.

Not licensed in Alaska, Hawaii, Georgia, Massachusetts, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Utah. In Matthew 5, 16, Jesus says, let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. As believers, we must glorify God in all we say and do, but does that apply even to investing? Well, today host Rob West talks with Jason Meyer of Eventide about faith-based investing that glorifies God. Then we take some calls from all across the country. However, today's edition of the program is not live. We are prerecorded.

I'm Steve Moore. A bigger vision for investing. That's next, right here on MoneyWise Live. Rob, Eventide is an investment company that specializes in faith-based investing and a financial underwriter of this program. Our guest, Jason Meyer, is here today to help us understand the importance of faith and values when we invest. Well, something we always look forward to. And Jason, delighted to have you back on the program. Good to be with you.

Thank you. Jason, faith-based investing may be a brand new idea to some of our listeners, so I'd love to begin today by just having you explain how you introduce the idea. Sure. I usually like to start by just explaining what's happening when we invest. So at the most basic level, investing can be thought of as company ownership. So when we invest, our money will go to companies and in return we get ownership in that company. And this ownership is what gives us the rights, of course, to receive any of the profits and growth that might come in the future, which is really why we're investing, right, to get that return stream. Now, if investing is company ownership, this should just invite us to ask, well, what are the companies that I'm owning here?

And the problem is that most of us really have no idea. If you ask the typical person, you know, what companies they own in their IRA or their 401K, they're going to look at you with a blank stare. And the reason for that is that most of us don't pick the companies we invest in. Instead, we use investment products, things like mutual funds, where the companies are chosen for us by someone else, a portfolio manager or a team of investors. And that's really the value proposition of using an investment product.

It goes something like this. Hey, you don't have the time, interest or skill to pick companies for yourself, so let us do it for you for a fee. And most of us are very happy with that arrangement. And so we really don't have any idea what companies we're investing in. Well, that's exactly right. And going back to your original idea that investing is ownership and given the idea that we then hire somebody, in many cases, to make those decisions for us, that leaves us with a pretty big question, doesn't it?

It does. And the question is really, is the person that we've hired to choose companies for us to invest in, do they share our beliefs, our values and our ethical commitments? Are they choosing the kinds of companies that we would choose for ourselves if we had the time, interest and skill to do it? Or are they simply focused on the bottom line, looking for profitable companies? And that's really where faith-based investing comes in. You are investing with someone who shares your beliefs, values and commitments so that you can save your money for the future in ways that you can feel good about from a Christian perspective. And obviously, what we're saying then is through traditional investing, we can end up owning companies that are at odds with our faith, in fact.

Yeah, unfortunately, that is the case. So there are a number of common problem areas that we can come into in investing, reflective of the number of problem areas that exist in the wider business world. So tobacco companies or gambling companies that profit from pornography or abortion, there's unfortunately a pretty long list. And that's really the case with virtually every mutual fund, traditional mutual fund that's out there.

They'll have exposure to one or more of these problem areas. Yeah. We've got just about a minute left before our first break, but I want to turn the corner because faith-based investing doesn't have to be simply eliminating a few problem areas, right?

Right. The temptation, I think, if you're starting from the place of traditional investing, is to start with the negatives and to create really a list of things to avoid. You know, what's the minimum I have to do here to keep a clear conscience whenever I'm investing? But really, I think that's starting from the wrong end of the spectrum. I think that's similar to Israel trying to earn righteousness by meeting the legal requirements of the law. The vision should be something much more positive when we're starting on the other end of the spectrum and really looking for companies that are well aligned with God's mission in the world.

I love it. We want to love our neighbors and we want to make a positive impact in the world. And after the break, Jason, I'd love for you to share some real examples of what that type of investing can look like.

Faith-based investing. Who, what, why, that and much more with our friend Jason Meyer of Eventide. We'll come back and chat some more. However, today's broadcast is pre-recorded.

Keep that in mind. We're going to pause briefly and then we'll be back. This is MoneyWise Live. Great to have you with us today. We're discussing a subject we've talked about before, faith-based investing.

But often people think, well, that's avoiding things that aren't in sync with Jesus and the Bible, but it's much, much more than that. And Jason Meyer with us today to help us think through this. Jason is with Eventide.

We'll tell you more about them later in the program. Jason, let's pick up on that idea that Steve just mentioned. You know, we can certainly exclude or eliminate companies that are in conflict with our values, but faith-based investing is much more than that. Help us understand that idea. Yeah, we were talking about casting a positive vision for investing. I like how a person named Dwight Short, a friend of mine, former financial advisor and an advocate of faith-based investing puts it. He says, try to think about yourself as God's portfolio manager.

Isn't that great? What's really happening, if we have a Christian perspective, is that God has entrusted us with his money to manage it on his behalf, according to his priorities. Now, of course, because God is generous, he allows us to use this money to provide for our needs and needs of our family. But the goal isn't for us to get rich off of it, right? It's to strategically deploy money to advance God's kingdom in this life.

I realize how extreme that sounds, but I really do believe that that's the case. And so I think we need to think about our investments with Christian imagination. And how do we use this money entrusted to us, seeking to maximize treasures in heaven, not just treasures on earth? And I think faith-based investing should be about investing to meet the needs of the world. That's a compelling vision, Jason, about how our investments should be about, as you said, meeting the needs of the world, not just maximizing financial returns. I'd love for you to share some real examples with us about what that looks like, because that then begins to make it real for us in the context of actual investments we can take advantage of. Sure, sure.

Yeah, I love telling the stories here. So let me give you an example in the area of water technology and clean water. So clean water is actually still a major problem for a lot of people in the world today.

Just before kind of describing how big a problem it is, it's helpful to know some definitions. So what does it mean when we say that someone has access to clean water? What that means is that, according to global standards, there's a source of clean water within one kilometer of our home where we're able to obtain 20 liters of clean water for every member of our household. Now, a lot of us don't think in terms of liters, so how much is 20 liters? Well, if you took a shower today and you're a typical American, you use 65 liters of water.

And here we're talking about 20 liters not just for personal hygiene but for all purposes, drinking, cooking, and cleaning. And so just to calibrate ourselves to how big the problem of water is, about 1.6 million people die every single year due to diarrhea. Obviously, most of those cases coming from contaminated water, and 90% of those cases are children under the age of five. Dirty water is actually the second largest killer of children in the world. Many of us don't realize this. You know, there's an estimate that about 800 million people will not have access to clean water by the year 2025.

A ton of people. 133 million people have what are called high-intensity worm infections in their gut from drinking contaminated water. So big, big problem here. And in most of the world, water is actually considered women's work. This is important because girls are often not allowed to go to school because they're so preoccupied with the task of getting clean water for the family. So if you care about women's issues in the world, you have to care about clean water. And there are many places in the world where water is reaching crisis levels. So in places like India, for example, scarcity is causing people basically to line up in queues for multiple hours a day just to fetch even a small amount of water for their families. And so hopefully you can appreciate what a big problem this is. Now, the world actually has a lot of water.

It's just difficult to access. So it's either locked up in the ocean or it's saltwater or it's underground or in glaciers. And if you look at the amount of surface water we have available, it's actually something very, very small. The opportunity would be to apply technology, investment and infrastructure to sources like groundwater.

And this would be a tremendous advance in the world. So what we decided to do at my company is actually to invest in what we believe is the leader in water technology, both in the developed world, but also in the developing world. They actually have a 2025 goal to provide clean water to at least 20 million people living at the very bottom of the global economic pyramid, the poorest of the poor. This is a publicly traded company, and this is matched by substantial donations from the company, about 25 million towards clean water projects and hundreds of thousands of hours from employee volunteering. And so here's the way where we can invest in a for-profit way to meet one of the biggest needs that exists in the world. Jason, it's incredible, and it's amazing to hear that this need is being met by a for-profit investable company. And most folks don't realize they have access to investing in a company that's meeting a need this big.

Would you mind sharing one more story, if you haven't, about what this can look like, faith-based investing? Yeah, absolutely. Let me give you an example about an unmet medical need in the area of the central nervous system, a disease called schizophrenia. I don't know if you're familiar with schizophrenia. It's kind of a difficult disease to get your mind around because it's known by a set of symptoms. If you look at the symptoms, the hallmark symptoms are delusions and hallucinations.

So people will see things. They will hear things. Often they'll hear the wall talking to them, telling them something very dark. And these are the kinds of people that we would be inclined to say are crazy. If you walked on the streets of a place like Boston, where I'm based, you would see many people like this. And it's actually a vast problem among the homeless.

Schizophrenia is one of the main drivers for homelessness. And it affects a lot more people than we think, about 3 million Americans, which is about 1 percent of the population. Treatments we have are ancient. 1952 was the latest treatment.

They barely work and they have horrible side effects. There's basically no recourse. And the World Health Organization ranks it as the third most debilitating disease in the world. So huge problem that I think all of us can appreciate.

Yes. Well, we've been watching this space for a long time and decided to invest in a health care company that was developing new treatment for schizophrenia. And we don't have time, I think, to get into all the details of the clinical trial. But what they were able to demonstrate is a dramatic reduction in these symptoms over the course of a phase two clinical trial. In fact, when we spoke to clinicians, they said the amount of improvement that patients saw in this proposed therapy was a game changer, that it would revolutionize someone's life separate from schizophrenia.

So this is amazing, right? We get to be a part of a story about helping heal a mental disease and potentially even addressing the problem of homelessness in the world. And while we hope for a good financial result, of course, as investors, think about what this story represents in terms of blessing to our neighbor and advancing the character of God in the world. At my company, we call these kinds of stories investing that makes the world rejoice. Well, Jason, these were two incredible stories of faith based investing as we started today. Yes, based on a conviction, we could certainly screen out companies that are in conflict with our values, but we can also take it to a whole new level and invest in companies, as you said, that are investing companies that are, as you said, making the world rejoice.

And who wouldn't want to be a part of that? Jason, thanks for stopping by today. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Jason Meyer from Eventide has been our guest today.

You can find out more about faith based investing at invest eventide dot com. You're listening to Money Wise Live. But today we're not live. So if you hear that phone number, please don't call. But do stick around.

Lots of good information ahead. A real pleasure to have you with us today. This is Money Wise Live. I'm Steve Moore. That other guy over there, the guy with the answers.

He's Rob West. And we're happy to have you with us on the program today. However, we are prerecorded.

We won't be taking your calls, but we've lined up some calls in advance that I think you'll find interesting, helpful and practical. At least we've tried to make them that way. So stick around. This is Money Wise Live. Let's go directly to our phones. Let's begin, Rob, by going out to Missouri. Speaking of fair game, Shane, I understand you want to buy some hunting land, huh?

Yes. OK. What's your what's your question and what's your situation there? Well, thank you for taking my call and thank you for your show and your program. But yeah, I've got some land. My dad's wondering if I would want to go in and partner with buying. And I didn't know the long term outcome on that and if it would be a good investment.

And, you know, just sure. So tell me a little bit about your situation first, if you don't mind, Shane, just in terms of are you living on a spending plan? Do you have an emergency fund? And maybe thirdly, are you saving for the long term? Yes. OK. Tell me about mine.

Go ahead. I make about three thousand a month. My wife, she makes around 60 a year or so. And we have an IRA and I'm 40.

She's 41. So. OK. Very good.

And are you putting money away just in the IRA or are you saving through a company sponsored plan of some kind? Well, she is and I'm disabled right now. So that's that. All right.

I'm sorry to hear that. Tell me about any debt that you have. Oh, we we do have some debt from, I'd say, her student loan and a car. Five thousand.

And an expedition. OK. Any credit card debt? Very little. OK. And so you're living on a spending plan. Do you have a good account of what your monthly expenses are, both what I'll call the discretionary, the nonrecurring expenses, but also the monthly bills? Do you have that written down and do you track the flow of money in and out each month? Not really track it, but we pretty well know, you know, where everything goes and we're pretty tight on things.

And in any given month, do you usually have some left over at the end of the month? Yes. OK.

Very good. And are you making some progress toward the student loans? How long do you think it's going to take to pay that off? Well, the student loan debt is she's a teacher, so that's supposed to be forgiven. She said so. OK. However, that works. Yep.

So she's on track over 10 years to have that forgiven and she's done her homework to make sure that she qualifies for that the best you understand? Yes. OK. Very good. So from your standpoint, you really feel like you're on track to be debt free.

You've got this car loan, but you you mentioned that you are saving for retirement, both in the form of an IRA as well as through her company sponsored plan. All right. Let's talk about the land. You know, land can be a fine investment. It's not my first choice for somebody who's trying to put together a well-diversified long term savings plan and get a return on that just because it tends to be somewhat illiquid. There are a number of factors related to raw land and in terms of how they're going to appreciate, depending upon whether or not there's infrastructure there, whether or not it's accessible by the various roads that need to be put in.

If there aren't any currently, whether there's any ongoing development of of single family homes or other dwellings in that area and whether those are going to be desirable. So there's just really a number of considerations. And for most folks who are still kind of building their financial foundation, trying to get out of debt, trying to save for the future, handling their monthly expenses, doing their giving, all of that. It really would be not my first go to if we're just looking at it as an investment. I'd rather see you invest in the stock and bond market with a well-diversified portfolio. And if you wanted to move into real estate, I'd rather see you go towards something that's more income generating as opposed to just raw land. Now, if you're buying it for another purpose, such as a hobby, you're going to farm the land, you're going to hunt the land, whatever it might be, that's completely different. But help me understand whether it's really, in your mind, truly something you're doing as an investment versus something that's really just a hobby that you want to have some fun on.

Yeah, it's not necessarily the investment. It's for actually hunting. It's trees.

Mainly all trees is what it is. Okay. So then I think the question is, are you financially in a position to buy this piece of property for a hobby? And is this a good idea at this point in your life, given, you know, you guys are 40, you're trying to make some progress in your financial life. Do you have the financial wherewithal to do this? And I would say, you know, I'd think long and hard about that, especially if you're going to have to take on some debt to do it. Do you have the money saved up to make this purchase, even if you're going in with somebody? Or are you planning to borrow to do it? Well, it'll be a borrowed loan.

Okay. So I'd be hesitant there without really taking a long, hard look at your priorities. I'd start you and your wife sitting down and say, what are our values and ultimately our goals? I'd give that some prayerful consideration. What do we want to do in terms of our lifestyle, in terms of our giving, in terms of our long-term and short-term savings goals, the things that are important to us? If you have kids saving for college, those kinds of things. And as you look at those things, I would look at where this fits into that. Nothing wrong with buying a piece of property to hunt on.

That's great. But I just want to make sure that it fits into your overall plan and that if you have to take on some debt to do it, that you understand the implications of that. Most certainly you'd want to make sure that it is something that's going to appreciate that as if you're married, that you and your wife are completely in agreement on that and that you have the backing to do it.

What if you lost your job? So I'd look at all those things, give it some prayerful consideration before you move forward. And Shane, we wish you the best with that. I've been Googling while you've been talking, it doesn't look like a huge money-making proposition if you have to buy the land, but we'll be praying with you. Thanks. You're listening to a best of broadcast of MoneyWise Live.

This program is prerecorded. Please hold your questions or you can email us at questions at MoneyWiseLive.org. Questions at MoneyWiseLive.org. It's MoneyWise Live, trying to determine what God's plan is for your life and your finances, and you don't want our opinions. Really, you want God's opinion.

Thankfully, he's given us his thoughts and opinions and directives in his word, the Bible, and that's where we begin that process of figuring these things out. Back to our phones. Aurora, Illinois, and Jasmine, thanks for your patience. What's on your mind? Well, I am a recently divorced mom of three boys, and I have about $45,000 worth of credit card debt and very low income. Unfortunately, I go with my flexible schedule with three kids of Uber and Lyft driver and literally kind of living paycheck to paycheck. Everything covers $500 rent, living with family, and then pretty much food and credit cards every month. Child support is only $492 a month. I'm trying to figure out what's the best route to go with $50,000 in 401K, which hasn't been divvied up yet since the divorce from my cousin.

But just trying to figure out if it's better to go with debt management or bankruptcy to kind of get a fresh support to take from the 401K when that's done with the divorce. I'm not quite sure what direction to go for the future. Yeah. Jasmine, I'm sorry to hear about this situation. I know this is a lot of pressure on you. You're trying to be a mom to these three boys.

You're trying to provide. You've got a lot in the way of debt. And financially, I realize this can just feel like a huge weight. And so, first of all, I just want to encourage you. It sounds like you're doing an incredible job managing all of this.

None of this caught God by surprise. And he is your provider. And so we're going to ask the MoneyWise community to be praying for you. We'll certainly do that before we finish today.

And I'm really, really glad you called. Tell me the credit card debt of forty five thousand. Is that all going to be your responsibility? Or is there still some question as to how that is divvied up? Yeah, that's yeah.

On my end. Yeah. And that's literally because we've been divorced for two years. We're we're still trying to iron out things as far as that goes, as far as the 401K. It's kind of something that's just been a held up on that end. Sure. But the child support, as you said, has already been determined. Right. It does. It actually does need to be reassessed.

I do know things to people kind of, you know, listening and reaching out. People have told me that unfortunately something didn't seem right with the I guess with the child support, with the new law. It just turned out that the attorney had put in the wrong amount of days and given us 50 50 when it was actually I have majority, according to what we agreed upon.

Just the calculations weren't right. But I do know that we need to go back to court. It's just something that I'm kind of holding off a little bit since he just started a new job. So I see. OK. Do you have a sense, Jasmine, of what you need to bring in each month to cover all of the fixed and discretionary expenses, to be able to cover your taxes, to be able to cover the minimum service on the debt, plus the small rent amount you're paying?

Do you know what that is? It's got to be at least 4000 for the month. OK. And what are you averaging right now?

Right now, probably about 32. And yeah, with the help of, you know, whenever my ex-husband can send over a little bit more. So, yeah. OK. And so the gap between the 3200 and 4000 that you really need on a monthly basis of roughly 800 a month, you're just month to month trying to figure that out. Where is that going? Are you building up and accruing additional credit card debt? Is your husband able, your ex-husband able to step in and help that? Is family helping with that?

Where is that going? Well, unfortunately, the debt's been accruing due to the fact that, unfortunately, you know, circumstances like because I have to use my vehicle. So I've had a lot of vehicle issues where I've had to fork out.

I think the last one was like, oh, my gosh, like 1800 dollars. And that was money I didn't have. And I had to ask him for a advance for literally two months of child support to help and a family member, which I, of course, had to pay back. And then my son got sick. My little one, six year old, got sick. And so I was out of work for another week.

So I don't get vacation or sick days. So it's literally kind of like a buildup of things just happening. Yeah. Well, we've got to turn a corner here, obviously, and certainly we don't want to file bankruptcy. It's a last resort. You won't find it in God's word.

It's a modern legal term that we've created. And there may be a situation where you're forced into that because there's simply no other option. That doesn't mean you can't go back and as the Lord provides over time, repay all of this debt because we know we should have an absolute commitment to repay as believers.

But I understand you're faced with what is reality right now in front of you. And you just have to take one step at a time. Trust the Lord.

Ask him to provide. Let's see how he does that even miraculously along the way. Let's take the steps you can take. But at some point that may become your only option. And if it is, you can navigate that from a godly perspective as well.

Two things. Number one is, does your church know about your situation? Have they stepped in to help? Is there real understanding there of what you're facing?

And perhaps could they be of some assistance? I haven't reached out to the church. Honestly, I haven't. I've gone to the church a few times. It's kind of like a new church that I'm going to. But with my hours, my kids being at their dad's house every weekend, I usually work full about 14 to 16 hours a day on the weekend. So I'm really losing out on the church family versus listening to you guys and Charles' family whenever I can. Well, I would really encourage you. I realize you've got to get your hours in and you're trying to drive and pay the bills and all of that.

But I would really encourage you to start to invest in the body of Christ there locally, where you can build some relationships, you can get to know some people. You need a support system right now more than ever. And certainly family can be that.

And it sounds like they are. But you also need a church family that can rally around you as well. Not only financially, although I think that's a part of it, but just relationally helping with the kids, things like that.

And I think there really is no replacement for that, even if you have to stop driving for 90 minutes on a Sunday morning and then you jump right back in. Again, I realize you're doing what you have to do to pay the bills, but I'd really encourage you to prayerfully consider where the Lord might plant you and then see what you can do to invest there. And make your needs known. Let them know what your situation is, because again, that's part of the role of the body of Christ. I think beyond that, I would love for you to start with Christian Credit Counselors.

You can visit with them at christiancreditcounselors.org. They're going to start by helping you do a budget and give you some real solid counsel to know, first of all, what would the interest rates be on the credit cards? Can you afford to make the payment? They're not going to put you into a debt management program if you can't. And could we get you headed in the right direction? Because obviously you need to get to a place where you've got at least a minimum of $1,000 or $1,500 as an emergency fund, because we know things are going to happen.

The car, whatever else it might be that you're going to have to fall back on. And any cards that go into a debt management program are going to be canceled. So let's start there. If they say, no, we can't help you. You're not a candidate for debt management.

Well, then we need to look at some other options. And again, you may have to go the bankruptcy route, even though that doesn't absolve all of the debts in terms of your really, I think, desire and obligation to pay that back as a believer. So start there and then Jasmine, reach back out to us.

Let us know how that turns out and let's take it from there. And before we let you go, let me just ask the Lord to be with you right now. Father, we just lift Jasmine and her three precious boys up to you. We know this is a difficult situation.

And yet, Lord, you are on the throne. You are her creator. You are her provider.

You're right there. And so I pray that you would just give her wisdom. You'd give her discernment. I pray that you would provide even miraculously.

In the name of Jesus, that people would just respond in an unexplainable way just to help out this family in need. Lord, we just commit her to you. We trust you.

We look forward to hearing how you're going to work in this situation. And we'll be sure you get all the glory for that, Father. And we ask all this in Jesus name. Amen. Amen.

God bless you, Jasmine. Thank you so much for calling us. You're listening to MoneyWise Live, but today we're not live. If you hear that phone number, please don't call, but do stick around. Lots of good information ahead. Great to have you with us today.

This is a call in program. However, MoneyWise Live is not live today. We are prerecorded, but we hope you'll stick around. We have some things coming up.

I think we'll not only surprise you, but we'll bless you and you'll find helpful. Well, I'll tell you, Steve, I'd love to take just a moment before we go back to the phones and just talk about the opportunity that exists to come alongside MoneyWise Media and the MoneyWise radio programs and be a partner. You know, we come to you each day only because of the generous support of our MoneyWise patrons and partners. These are individuals, perhaps like you, that count on MoneyWise. You listen to the program by appointment. You take advantage of calling in when you have a question. You're a frequent visitor to MoneyWiseLive.org, our website, and take advantage of the resources there.

By the way, there are many of them. You've availed yourself of a question for a coach, or perhaps you've engaged one on one with one of our volunteer coaches. Whatever it is, we would just ask for you prayerfully to consider partnering with us financially. Beyond the giving you do to your local church, could you give monthly or maybe one time?

Whatever that looks like for you, pray about it. If you're married, talk to your spouse and then click or call. You can do that easily and quickly by going to our website MoneyWiseLive.org and just clicking the donate button.

Or you can give us a call at any time at 800-525-7000 and talk to one of our volunteers who would love to help you take your gift over the phone. However you want to do it, we would just be grateful that you'd be willing to stand with us. By the way, would you pray for us as well as we do God's work here on the front line sharing His truth about managing His money? Yep, we can't do it without you, that is for sure. Alright, let's go back to our phones even though again today's broadcast is pre-recorded.

Joe in Miami, how can we help you, sir? Well, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate everything you do. I listened to you many times over the years and just appreciate you taking my call. Thank you.

So this is what's going on. I bought my house about seven years ago. I paid for it cash because I had sold the property up north when I relocated here. And I had my cars paid for, no credit card debt. I was really doing well. But then a few things has happened along the way. And in the last seven, eight months, I invested in some stock and the stock took a tank and I just recently lost about $80,000.

So I got a couple of things to share with you. I had a home equity line of credit, which I took a while back. It was interest only at six percent. And right now that that balance is about $72,000. And I've got about $25,000 in credit card debt at 14 percent. And I got car loans about $18,000 at four and a half percent.

There's two different ones, but it's about the same rate. So the combined payment of those credit cards and the car loans is about a thousand seventy three dollars a month. OK. On my home equity line, my payment interest only is three hundred and fifty. So I've learned that I can refinance that line of credit.

Remember, there is no first right now, but that line has a that line has a lot of it has about one hundred and ninety two thousand line. But I'm only using seventy two at six percent. So I can refinance at a 30 year, which I'll be paying principal and interest. And that payment will be four hundred and eighty, just a little slightly above my interest only current. And the extra dollars from that, the 70 versus 100, I would pay off my car loans and high credit card, which I know it's unsecure. The credit card, I would be securing it, but it would alleviate a thousand dollars in cash flow for me. And that's where I'm at right now.

I'm struggling with the decision because I heard you guys talk about this before. But I just wanted to share that with you and get some advice. Yeah. Joe, I appreciate all the background.

That's really helpful. Let me just ask, did you borrow the money on the home equity line of credit for the investment? I did not.

I did not. I had other money that I was I was buying and selling and it just kind of turned out that way. Some weird way I had borrowed and paid back over the years. And at one point it was kind of a wash. I had the same amount in my investment account, but I had made money and lost money on that investment account.

So it wasn't specific to that. So how did you use the how did you use the money from the line of credit? Well, I did hurricane impact windows on the house.

That was about thirty thousand dollars. I gave my wife some money. We took some vacations. I did other things.

Yeah. Well, here's my concern, Joe. I mean, yeah, on paper, it makes sense for you to first of all, you've got to right size your monthly budget. We've got to get to where you've got a detailed accounting of what it's going to take to fund your family, starting with not your discretionary and fixed expenses, but starting with what do you all want to do on the monthly basis in the area of giving? What do you want to do on a monthly basis in the area of saving?

And for what purposes? What are your what is your effective tax rate? Meaning when you look at your income and you divide by the amount of taxes you paid last year, we got to cover that. Beyond that, we want to be reducing any debt that you have, not counting your mortgage. And I realize you don't have a first mortgage, but let's say we did this. And then what does it take to fund your lifestyle, both fixed and discretionary expenses? And all of that is going to then tell us what income you need to be able to do all of those things, to be able to pay off completely your debt, to give, to save, to cover your taxes and to live.

My concern is that because of some of the things you've done in the past in terms of pulling out money against the house with a variable rate, paying interest only, playing the stock market, which I would encourage you not to do anymore moving forward, because really that kind of speculation is not supported in scripture. We should be steady plotters. We shouldn't use a get rich quick scheme. And that really is what that is unless you're a professional investor.

And that would be a very small percentage of the people that really make that they're skilled, they're trained in that area, probably work for an institution, not on their own, and really have the ability to do that. So my fear would be that we'd roll all of this into a new 30 year mortgage. We'd string it out over the next 30 years. The pressure would come off.

And guess what? You'd be right back in this position six months from now where the debt's back, probably in the form of credit cards because you haven't really dealt with the underlying issue. So help me understand how you would account for that and what you would do differently moving forward if you paid all this off and had a fresh start with a new first mortgage. All right. So thank you for that.

I appreciate the feedback. So I have a full spreadsheet on my expenses down to cable, water, property taxes, food, all of that stuff, and all my credit cards. I have a full spreadsheet of all my expenses. I'm putting away six percent of my income, which is matched six percent by my employer. And I've got about one hundred and sixty thousand in my 401K. And I have some other money right now.

So I'm not I'm not paycheck to paycheck. And I do I do have right now an overage of income of about eight hundred dollars a month after savings, after putting aside for the for the taxes and insurance on the property and all that, which I paid separate. So what this would do is it would free up an additional about a thousand dollars. And my my goal would be to double up on that mortgage to pay it down on an automatic payment process. So I wouldn't I wouldn't I would I would let that money get paid right back to the mortgage to cut it down and pay it off early.

OK, well, I'm on board with that. I think the key is you really need to demonstrate to yourself that you can do everything you just said on a monthly basis before you move forward with this. I would not roll the car loan into that. I would go after that separately. I'd try to keep this mortgage as low as possible. What do you think the value of the home is today? Oh, it's about four hundred and fifty thousand.

OK. All right. So I would only consider at this point doing the home equity loan and this credit card debt. Roll that in. But then really focus on, first of all, paying off that car and then take that extra money and plow it back into this mortgage. At least one extra payment a year, if not more than that. And I know you said you're looking to double it every month, which would be great. But also factor in the other goals that you have along the way and make sure you're tracking the flow of money in and out. So I'm comfortable with this so long as you can really follow through on this plan. And if for some reason you start to see some credit card debt built up that you're not paying off, then I'd like you to cut those cards up and and not certainly go down that path again. We appreciate your call today, the Lord bless you.

Thank you, Joe, very much. You know, Rob, you used a term that some of our callers sometimes use. I occasionally play the stock market.

What do they typically mean and what do you read into that when you hear that terminology? Well, I think this is somebody who either just as a hobby or perhaps with a certain amount that they've carved out or with the substantial portion of their long term savings are really trying to move in and out of the market to catch a rising equity, meaning a stock where they can buy, ride it up and then sell it. The problem is you have to have you have to be able to predict the future in order to do that. And, you know, that just historically and through all the studies that have been done on that type of approach is not a winning strategy.

Too high risk. You're not going to do as well over the long term. You should be steady plotters and follow the Council of Scripture. That means a well diversified, long term investment strategy of at least five to 10 years, not five to 10 days by any means.

All right. Well, speaking of being a steady plotter, there's no man that's a greater proponent of that biblical principle than our good friend Howard Dayton, the founder of Compass. And he talks about that and much, much more in his book, Money and Marriage God's Way. So, guys, ladies, if you have a difficult time speaking with your spouse about money and finances, particularly at this time of year when we're doing a lot of spending because of the holidays, I'd encourage you to pick up a copy of this book, Money and Marriage God's Way.

You'll find really a practical, timeless biblical information that will help you communicate better with your spouse and really maximize your spending, your saving, your investing and living God's plan for your financial life. You'll find it available to purchase when you visit our website, MoneyWiseLive.org, MoneyWiseLive.org. Check us out today. My thanks to our technical team, Judy, Amy, Aaron and Jim for their substantial help. My thanks to you for listening in today. Please tell a friend and then join us again next time. We'll be back with a brand new edition of MoneyWise Live.