Financial Fantasies

You know, daydreaming can be lots of fun thinking about the what ifs and if onlys, but what about wishful thinking when it comes to replacing wise money management?

Those daydreamings, that could cause some nightmares down the road. That's right, the hard truth is all the happy thoughts in the world won't help you pay the bills. So today, Kingdom Advisors President Rob West reveals three delusions about money so you can avoid them. And we'll take your calls and questions on anything financial at 800-525-7000.

800-525-7000. I'm Steve Moore. We're slaying financial fantasies next on MoneyWise Live. So Rob, when does daydreaming about having tons of money or other things we'll probably never have, when does that become harmful? Well, Steve, you could argue that it's never a good thing because it's a waste of time and mental resources that could be put to good use elsewhere. So in the broadest sense, it's harmful all the time. But there's no doubt that it's harmful when you act or I guess I should say fail to act based on that thinking.

Okay, and what would that look like? Well, one example would be that you run up debt because you think there's money coming later. That's presuming on the future, of course, which the Bible warns about. I'll take you to Proverbs 27-1. It reads, Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth.

That could also mean that you do nothing, not doing up a budget and sticking to it, which leads to not saving. The Bible warns us about that too. In Proverbs 21-20, you'll know it well. Precious treasure and oil are in a wise man's dwelling, but a foolish man devours it. Okay. Well, I think we've laid a scriptural groundwork for avoiding financial fantasies. So let's identify some of them so that we can get to so that we don't do that. And you've got three I think that you want to talk about, huh?

I do. And this one, the first one, I guess, is thinking that you might someday inherit a big pile of cash and that it'll solve all of your financial problems. But how often are heirs unpleasantly surprised by the provisions of a relative's will?

It happens all the time. And think about this. If you're wishing for an inheritance, well, you're looking forward to someone dying. That's not only morbid, it's in direct conflict with the 10th commandment. You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not cover your neighbor's wife or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor. I think the point is clear.

That includes his retirement plan, I guess. Yes, that's right. Okay. I'm going out on a limb here and say that that may apply not only to, well, family members, but other people you might know. Maybe some people that you work with, things like that. Anything, anytime you're thinking about something that more than likely won't come true and doesn't bear any real resemblance to reality, huh?

That's exactly right. All right. All right.

What else do you have for us? What would be the next thing? Yeah, the next one is dreaming that you're going to win the lottery. If that's your retirement plan, be nice to your boss because you'll be working for a very long time. Statistically, Steve, you're much more likely to die in a car crash on your way to buy a lottery ticket than you are of actually winning. And if you decide to walk to the store to buy a ticket, well, you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning twice than winning the lottery. Here's what God's Word says about that. Proverbs 28, 20, a faithful person will be richly blessed, but one eager to get rich will not go unpunished. Now, that doesn't mean you're going to be hit by lightning for wanting to get rich quick. It means you'll naturally miss out on God's blessings if you fail to follow his principles for managing money. Those blessings aren't always financial, though. Sometimes they're things like peace of mind that comes from knowing that you're being a steward, a good steward, if you will, of his resources. Okay, I'm betting that a fair amount of folks might not fall for those first two financial fantasies.

But I'm peeking ahead here, if you don't mind, and seeing that lots more people might have a problem with the last one on your list. Well, that's right. It's probably a lot more common, and it's thinking that the government will provide for you. You know, it's no secret that entitlement programs are in big trouble, Steve. The latest projection shows that Social Security benefits will start to exceed the program's revenue next year. It will then have to start dipping into its $2.9 trillion reserve, which, by the way, will be used up entirely by 2035. Medicare is on an even faster downward trajectory. It's expected to run out of money in 2026. Now, that's not to say those programs won't be available.

They will be, but they'll likely have reduced benefits and higher taxes to support them. The point is, we all have to plan and save for the day when we can no longer work and be productive. Okay, we'll come back and chat some more about financial fantasies. We hope you're not entertaining any. And then give us a call, 800-525-7000.

He's Rob West. This is MoneyWise Live. Many people adopt an attitude toward marriage and finances that it'll all work out somehow.

But sadly, it often doesn't. Financial woes can devastate a marriage, but there is a better way. God's Way. Money in Marriage God's Way by Howard Dayton will help you discover God's approach to growing your finances, strengthening your relationship with your mate, and cultivating Godly joy. Money in Marriage God's Way is available when you click the Store button at MoneyWiseLive.org. How should we as Christians think about investing? What if we could invest our money in a way that aligns with what we believe? At Eventide, we believe it is possible to love God and love our neighbor in the very practice of investing. We design investments for performance and a better world so you can invest for the future with a sense of wholeness and purpose. We call this investing that makes the world rejoice.

More information is available at InvestEvenTide.com. Do you feel stuck? Are you tired of going through the motions of faith? Do you want to make real progress in your life but not know where to start? How to Grow is a book to help you grow spiritually and help others grow as well. We often see the Gospel as a starting point of the Christian life, rather than the main point of all life. How to Grow, a new book by Daryl Dash, available at moodypublishers.org.

That's moodypublishers.org. Hospitality. Dustin Willis and Brandon Clemens say it's the simplest way to change the world. Gospel-centered hospitality makes a powerful witnessing statement as we open our lives and homes to others. The simplest way to change the world will show you how you can be hospitable even if you don't have the space for it. Most people are more likely to step into a living room than a sanctuary, so why not read The Simplest Way to Change the World?

More at moodypublishers.com. Would you like your life to be infused with joy? Would you like to interject an eternal dimension into even the most ordinary day? Author Randy Alcorn says you can when you discover the Treasure Principle. In a concise, power-packed style, this newly revised and updated book offers a six-step plan to finding the immediate pleasure and eternal rewards of the Treasure Principle.

And once you discover it, life will never look the same. The Treasure Principle is available when you click the store button at moneywiselive.org. Great to have you out there today. Again, our phone number, 800-525-7000. If you have a question about your finances, anything you might be wondering about, struggling about, particularly as we enter a brand new year and you'd like Rob to weigh in directly from God's Word, the Bible, we'd be happy to do that, so you'll just have to reach out to us first.

We don't know your number, but you know ours because it's 800-525-7000. So, Rob, we were talking a little bit about things not to do, not to get into things that are more fantasy than reality. Don't want to leave people depressed by all this. Any positive word of encouragement for folks who, maybe they're not daydreaming, but, you know, they tend to be people who are overly optimistic, let's say. Well, yeah, Steve, you know, it's a great question.

And I would just say, at the end of the day, why not put your hope in a sure thing, despite the other things we were talking about just before the break. And that would, of course, be God's promise to provide for all our needs. You know, of course, we have to do our part, Steve, by following his financial principles, including living on less than you make, staying out of debt, saving for the future. By doing those things, though, you can improve your financial situation without any help from the lottery or a rich uncle, as we were talking about earlier. You know, it's not a get-rich-quick scheme. It takes time, it takes steady plotting, but we know it works. And that's precisely what Proverbs 21 is talking about. Verse 5, steady plotting brings prosperity, hasty speculation brings poverty. Hmm.

Okay. Speaking of a rich uncle, you know, somebody must have a rich uncle. I don't have one, but I mean, have you ever met a rich uncle? I mean, where is this guy? And what's he do for a living? Why doesn't he give us a call? The elusive rich uncle is out there somewhere, right?

800-525-7000 Akron, Ohio. Alan, are you, sir, the proverbial rich uncle? Well, not rich, but I'm a helpful uncle. We'll put it that way. Hey, how can we help you, sir?

Okay. Well, a friend of mine that I'm helping out, they're rebuilding their credit and they were able to get a secured credit card for $300. And they asked me a question. They said they charge $50. Should they go ahead and immediately pay the $50 back off or should they wait for the bill to come in? Does that reflect differently on the credit report?

You know, it really doesn't, Alan. There's no benefit. As long as you pay it by the due date, it really doesn't make a difference as far as your credit report is concerned. I think the key there is making sure that you're an on-time payer every month. But in terms of how that information is reported, it's going to be reported after the billing cycle closes based on the fact that you were either on time or late. And it's going to be reported systematically that way. By paying it early, that information doesn't actually make it on to the credit report.

So there's really no benefit. I think the key is getting into a rhythm of making sure that that payment is made on time and every month in full so that you bring that balance down to zero and then obviously you can charge up to the secured amount again. By the way, and I wouldn't recommend you do this because you're going to get hit with probably a late fee if you do, information is not reported as late to a credit bureau until it gets 60 days late. So, you know, with a credit card, if you happen to miss one, yeah, you get hit with that late payment, but you've got to actually miss the second one before it gets reported as a black mark to the credit report.

But bottom line to your question, no, paying it early is not going to make any difference on the credit report. Alan, we're glad you called today. Thank you very much.

Let's quickly go to Pikeville, Kentucky. And Lee, I think we tried to get you on Monday and then things kind of fell apart from a phone standpoint. Is that you with us today?

That would be me. Great. I'm glad we finally were able to do it. Let's do it quickly so we don't leave ourselves up to the up to the frustration of the phone line one more time.

What's your question? Okay, I'm looking at perhaps doing a re-mortgage refinance on my home mortgage. My principal balance right now is $130,000. Okay, my payments are $1045.95 and I owe 13 and a half years. Okay.

On the interest rate of 3.99%. Okay. Okay. I have been offered the interest rate of 2.75% for 15 years, which would be adding my original that's what I originally financed for. Yes.

It would be kind of going back to start. They said the payments would be between $922 and $925 monthly. Okay.

With a $4700 fee charge. Yeah. And I don't know.

I'm not sure if that's such a good deal. Yeah. Well, a couple of thoughts. Number one, should you refinance? I guess the first question other than can you save on the interest rate at least a point which basically you're telling me that you are is are you going to stay in the home? Do you expect to stay here until it's paid off and beyond that?

Yes. Okay, very good. And then beyond that, we'd want to look at making sure that you don't extend the term. Now, as you said, you'd be resetting that mortgage at 15 years.

You're already a year and a half in. That doesn't trouble me too much. But let me ask that $925 roughly that you're going to have as a new mortgage payment. Is that lower than the one that you have currently?

The one currently is $1045.95. Okay. And does that current payment fit into your budget pretty well? Yes.

Okay. So one thing you could do here, Lee, if we get you the right mortgage with the right closing costs, and you get that 2.75% interest rate, in fact, if you have good credit at 15 years, I'd like for you to do even a little better than that, maybe 2.6. But regardless, 2.75 or less, what I would do is continue to pay that $1045.95 every month, even though the payment minimum is that 925. And what that's going to do is add a little more than $100 a month to principal, which is probably going to allow you to pay it off at this lower interest rate in even less than 13 and a half years, which is what you had left on your current mortgage. So the benefit of that extra hundred a month plus the lower interest rate is really going to allow you to accelerate this and perhaps even pay that off in 12 years, which would be great. Now, the only other thing, though, we have to look at is the closing costs. Typically, I'd love for you to only spend about 2% in the form of closing costs, which would be only around $2600. You're up at $4500 or $4700, which is a bit steep. So I'd like for you to get a couple more estimates. That's going to be a good faith estimate for the loan. And where are you shopping this? Is it your current bank? It is Quicken. Okay.

All right. And they can be a fine. There may be some discount points thrown in there. I see that quite a bit with that particular lender, which you don't necessarily have to pay. In fact, you know, with where interest rates are today, in order to get 275 on a 15 year note, you shouldn't have any discount points.

So that would be one thing you'd want to check. So I'd go to bankrate.com and look for the online lenders that have the most competitive 15 year mortgage refi rates. It does vary from time to time just based on how much money they have available to lend.

And so certain companies will have different programs, especially now that we're into a new month and a new year. It's going to be a great opportunity for you to look around and see who's got the most attractive rates. A lot of folks are going with the lender you just described because they're doing so much marketing right now.

But I'd like for you to have at least three quotes. So bottom line is, I like the direction you're headed. I'd like for you to get the closing costs down to closer to $3,000, not five.

And I'd continue to pay that existing mortgage payment, even though your new payment will be considerably less. Lee, we're really glad that we're able to get through to you or you were able to get through to us today. And I hope that information helps you. Sounds like you're moving in the right direction there.

Thanks very much. You're listening to MoneyWise Live, a place where we do our very best to remember that God owns it all. We're just managers, or as the Bible refers to us, stewards of what he provides us.

We'll be right back with more phone calls, 800-525-7000, right after this. You probably have a strategy for your finances, your career, even your retirement. But do you have a strategy for your giving? At the National Christian Foundation, we can help you create a giving strategy to inspire your family, maximize your resources, and leave a lasting legacy of faith.

To learn how, visit moneywise.org slash ncf. The financial wealth you leave behind could be the best thing that ever happened to your loved ones, or the worst. In splitting heirs, giving your money and things to your children without ruining their lives, Ron Blue explains why it's important to make these decisions now, instead of forcing your heirs to do it later. Splitting heirs will foster a real appreciation for the precious resources that God has entrusted to you.

And it's available when you click the Store button at moneywiselive.org. Hebrews 4-12 says, For the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword. Here's Beth Moore with a quick word. Go back to Isaiah, this time to Isaiah chapter 6. In verse 1, I'll read verses 1 through 3. It says, In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe fill the temple. Above him were seraphs, each with six wings, with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying, and they were calling to one another, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty, that is the Lord of hosts.

That's our word. Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts. The whole earth is full of his glory. God is seated upon a throne, and he is in a temple. He's not a priest in a temple, but he is a king in a temple. In other words, it is the coming together of all what we would call religious life and all government.

The king is in the temple, and the kingship, the royal priesthood is depicted perfectly for us in Isaiah chapter 6, that he is the king that rules over all things sacred. There will be no separation whatsoever of church and state in the kingdom, absolutely none. All life will be governed by a God who sits upon a throne in a temple. It will all be what we would term in our culture, religious life.

It simply will, no separation of it. You've been listening to A Quick Word with Beth Moore. Beth is excited to announce now that Faith Has Come, a study of Galatians, is available as an online experience or as a printed workbook edition.

Grab your copy today at BethMoore.org. Hey, have you made any resolutions? After all, it's the first week of a brand new year. You know, there's that thing about losing a few pounds, maybe doing your best to change the oil more than once a year, and then there's that budget thing. Well, you know, one of the best ways, one of the most favorable ways to budget and to do it in a way that most people understand is the old-fashioned envelope issue or budget, and that's something that your parents did and probably your grandparents did. The envelope budget still works, and it works really well.

It's easy to understand, easy to apply, but these days, well, we're in a digital world, and if only, Rob, if only someone had come up with something digital, high-tech, something computery-like. Well, Steve, I have good news for you. We actually did it. Really.

See, we took a couple of days off, and while my back was turned, you pulled us together. Actually, it's been years in the making, and the team actually specifically dedicated eight months to building the MoneyWise digital envelope system. If you haven't checked it out, I really encourage you to do it. I use it for my finances, and I will just tell you because I had a hand in speaking to the features I wanted to see, although I didn't do any of the coding.

We left that to the professionals. It's the best digital envelope system out there anywhere, and here's why. It's really based on that tried-and-true system, Steve, of making sure that your money comes into your funding accounts. You then fund your envelopes based on your budget. You have all those categories, whichever ones you want to set up, and then as you spend out of those envelopes, you know exactly what's left in each one. So when you're ready to go eat out, you look in your app, and there in your eating out envelope, it tells you how much you have left in every other category. The great thing is when it's digital, all the transactions download from your bank or your savings account or your NCF Giving account automatically, and it gets smart as you go.

So it learns your behavior and knows that, yeah, when you go to Chick-fil-A, that goes into the eating out envelope automatically. And so it's all there, all the bells and whistles, not to mention our community where you can ask questions and even all the MoneyWise broadcast archives. So go download it today. Where will you find this wonderful thing? Well, it's in your app store waiting for you.

So head over to the Google Play Store or the Apple App Store and just type in the search field MoneyWise Biblical Finance. Download the app, check it out today, and let us know what you think. So the app knows if I go to Chick-fil-A.

Is that what you said? It does. Does it know if I order ice cream? Does it know that? No, no, it just knows the amount that you spent. And by the way, it's all secure, latest security features.

So it's only you that has that information. But yeah, it'll go right into your, you might even need a Chick-fil-A envelope, Steve, I'm thinking, rather than just the eating out. Yeah, I think. And if it's a large enough envelope, I could take, I could throw in a couple of those extra honey mustards. I like the honey mustard.

No, no, no. I like the teriyaki sauce. It's all in the app.

Digital sauces. Okay. Eight hundred five two five eight.

Wait a minute. What was the number? Eight hundred five two five seven thousand Wichita, Kansas. Hey, Dave, how can we help you today? Yeah, a friend of mine and I were chatting via email today and we're just posing the question.

How much money do you need to save? Dave, that's a great question. And there are so many answers to that question. So let me start with a kind of a high level thought on it. First of all, I want to make sure that when we talk about retirement, we don't automatically buy into the world's definition of retirement, that there's this date by which you have to cease all productive activity and live a life of leisure. You know, we don't really see this concept of retirement, at least the modern view of it, in the Bible anywhere. We recognize as workers, as God's creation, we were created to be used by him, to glorify him, and that we have a calling that doesn't expire until he calls us home or he comes to collect us when he returns. And so I think until that point, we need to always be asking, Lord, what do you have for me in this season?

And by the way, in those retirement years, I would argue we have the most in the way of experience and wisdom to bring in God's service. Now, that doesn't mean, though, that we shouldn't be steady plotters saving for a day where perhaps we can't work to earn a paycheck. And so we need to have means by which we can continue to provide for ourselves and anyone depending upon us in that season of life. And so that's why we talk on this show often about saving for retirement and we just look at it in more of a biblical sense. I also think there's a point where we need to set a financial finish line. We don't just accumulate for accumulation sake. We say, how much do we need to fund our lifestyle, whatever prayerfully we decide that's going to be? How much do we need in the bank when we get to that point if we're able to save that amount so that we can fund the lifestyle we believe God has called us to? But at that point, we don't continue to save. Once we reach it, we have the ability to give even more away.

Now, what is that number? Well, I think it's got to be considered prayerfully. I think each person or couple, if you're married, has to sit down and say, Lord, what lifestyle have you called us to when we get out of debt? How much do we really need to fund our expenses? And that's going to be the ultimate driver of what you need to have in the bank when you reach that point. Certainly, there are rules of thumb out there.

I'll mention them here in a second in terms of what that amount might be. But at the end of the day, that's between you and the Lord. And once you know what that lifestyle is, it's just a mathematical equation. If you're going to live on eighty thousand dollars a year and just pick that number, then you have to look at, OK, what am I going to have in the way of Social Security? I don't know for sure.

Obviously, it's that system has some question marks, but there'll be some version of it available. And so we put a number down for that. And then if the rest is going to come from an income stream generated off of your savings, then in order to come up with that amount of money, we know how much you need to put away in terms of the rules of thumb. It's usually 10 to 12 times your income that most people will say.

Or another way to look at it is if you take the amount you want to have in retirement as income and multiply that by twenty five, that will give you the number by which at a four percent rate of return, you'll be able to generate that exact amount. So think about that. Pray about that. If you have any other questions along the way, give us a call back.

Thank you, Dave. When we come back, we'll chat with Cindy and Chad Nuga about possibly buying a home that and more right after this. For 30 years, Soundmind Investing has been helping Christians reach their financial goals with step by step guidance for investors at every stage, from those just getting started to those getting ready for retirement. Through scriptural principles and practical suggestions, SMI offers financial wisdom for living well.

More information, including a short video webinar on profit and peace of mind, no matter what's happening in the market, is available at soundmindinvesting.org. Christian healthcare ministries enables believers to meet their healthcare costs affordably, biblically, and compassionately. It's not insurance, but a voluntary cost sharing ministry based on the biblical example of Christians sharing each other's needs.

And members aren't fined under the law for not having health insurance. Christian healthcare ministries might be your health cost solution. Call 800-791-6225 or visit chministries.org. Authors Robert and Nancy Walgamuth have heard many life stories. They all point to the same God whose hand we see in everything, so we can trust Him to write the story. It's encouragement you need to give God the control. And He's wanting our lives to be a written, living demonstration for our good and for His glory. You can trust God to write your story by Robert and Nancy Walgamuth.

Order your copy today at moodypublishers.com. Americans seem wealthier but not happier. Loneliness and depression are on the rise, and wealth is doing nothing to make us feel whole. In their newest book, Becoming Whole, authors Brian Fickert and Kelly M. Capik argue that we've Christianized the American dream and it's tearing us apart. This captivating book, Becoming Whole, demonstrates what it means to be whole, revealing how we project our own brokenness onto the people we're trying to help. Get your copy of Becoming Whole at moodypublishers.com. Do you know if you have enough, enough money, enough house?

Do you know how much is enough? If not, Ron Blue can help with his book, Master Your Money, a step-by-step plan for experiencing financial contentment. Learn how to save, invest, and give wisely, how to create a long-term financial plan, and how to get out of debt. You'll find it all in Master Your Money by Ron Blue, available when you click the store button at MoneyWise Live.

With SRN News, I'm John Scott. The U.S. Capitol Police have locked down the Capitol building and evacuated multiple congressional buildings amid violent protest outside. What had been peaceful protest of the Electoral College vote turned confrontational. Some groups dressed in disguises and painted faces breached the Capitol building mid-afternoon in areas closed to construction.

Photos of protesters occupying the Senate chamber and Statuary Hall have appeared online now. No one has claimed responsibility for the incursions, and one person has been shot at the Capitol. The exact circumstances surrounding the shooting were unclear. The victim has been taken to a hospital.

Their condition was not known. President Trump is calling for calm. On Wall Street today, the Dow gained 437 points. The Nasdaq was down 78. The S&P 500 up 21.

This is SRN News. Hey, maybe you're thinking about saving or giving. Maybe it's investing, maybe buying a big ticket item, or maybe it's returning those golf pants that your Aunt Harriet bought you. Unfortunately, they're the same orange and red color that she bought you last year and you're wondering how to do it without offending her. Is that a financial problem? I don't know, but we can kick it around. 800-525-7000.

800-525-7000. And Rob, I mean, that's, I mean, you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings if they buy you something because they love you at Christmas. And that's right. But it just doesn't suit you. It's not your color.

You're in autumn and what they bought you was more of a summer. You want to do that in a way that isn't offensive. That's always.

Yeah. Try to preserve the relationship. And if you lead with that approach, I think you'll come up with the right decision. Just before the break, we were chatting with Dave, who was wondering just how much do I have to have before I can retire?

How do I know if I have enough? Any additional thoughts on that? Well, we talked a lot.

Yeah, it is. And we talked about a couple of things. We talked about the biblical perspective on it, which is our calling doesn't expire ever. We talked about the fact that we should set a financial finish line, meaning we don't just continue to accumulate into perpetuity. We should know where we're headed and have a plan to get there. And then when we reach that point, we can give even more away. But then the third piece is the financial computation side.

Once you decide your lifestyle, then you have to recognize a couple of things, Steve. First, once you reach that retirement season where you're no longer working and you're asking the Lord what he has next for you, you have to determine what are your expenses going to be? The typical person will live on 70 to 80 percent of their pre-retirement income.

Why does it go down? Well, Lord willing, you're out of debt at that point. You're no longer saving for retirement. Hopefully the kids are off the payroll. And so all of those things mean your expenses drop.

Right. So if you're living on 70 to 80 percent, you need less than you did during your working years. So how much is that? Well, that's where that's 10 to 12 times your income number comes in. If you save 10 to 12 times your pre-retirement income, then when you factor in Social Security and the reduction in expenses during that season, you should have enough to make up what Social Security isn't providing and be able to maintain relatively speaking the lifestyle you had pre-retirement. I also mentioned the multiply by 25 rule.

Let me just explain that one quickly. If you know that there's a certain amount you're trying to generate in income during a period of time and you're going to use that 4 percent number that we talk about when you have a nest egg that's invested, you can pull 4 percent a year out. You should be able to live on the income and never impact the principal. The way you find out how much you need to save to be able to pull out 4 percent a year and equal that amount is you multiply by 25. And when you do that, whatever that number is times 25, then at a 4 percent rate of return, you're going to get that same number. So it's just a little math trick there that you can apply in that situation. Does that trick actually have a name? I'm being serious now. It does. It's called the multiply by 25 rule. I'm sorry I asked now.

And I'm even sorry I mentioned the golf pants. You know, now it just doesn't seem to be worthwhile. Here's something that's probably worthwhile. It's our phone number because we have four open lines at 800-525-7000. If you'd like to chat today, still plenty of time. Open lines, 800-525-7000. That rule of 25 rule thing is something to remember as well.

Chad Nugget, Tennessee, WMBW. Hey, Cindy. How can we help you? Well, hello there. I hope you all are doing well. First of all, we applied exactly what you have been teaching four years ago. We were in debt up about 80,000.

I don't work because I have some health issues. And so I told my husband one night, I said, you know what? These gentlemen know what they're talking about.

And I think we need to apply what they have been preaching all along. So we sold our dream home and that helped us alleviate 90% of our debt. We moved into an apartment and I kind of fell in love with the apartment living. You know, with the rent, you do get the pool, you get all the amenities of a lifestyle.

You know, if something breaks, they come in and fix it. We have a washer and dryer we don't have to worry about. So my husband now, we've been here four years. We are 61 and a half. He wants to buy a house. Now Chattanooga has really, the housing market has just boomed. We're experiencing, you know, the highs of highs. Two or three years ago, the house, a medium home was about 280.

Now it's 340. So my question is, I kind of would like to stay in an apartment. Again, you get all of the benefits. Yes, you don't have a garage. Yes, you don't really kind of know your neighbors, but we've owned homes. We know what it's like to maintain yards. We've always had an HOA and those fees add up. A lot of the communities now are hearing poor people, I guess our age where the lawn and the maintenance is included.

Well, that kind of sky highs because if you're in a drought and they're having to maintain the yard more diligently, I'm afraid that's going to be something that's going to be up and down. So my thing is, what do you think? I mean, I just would like to know your thoughts because I know renting technically isn't, you know, we don't own, but so. Yes. Well, Cindy, first of all, thank you for that explanation and your encouragement. I hope after the advice we gave that you took, your husband is still speaking to us.

Is that true? Yes, he does make the dishes because he knew I was right. Okay. So if Steve and I invited him to a cup of coffee, he would accept, you think? Oh, he would definitely.

That's good news. We'll provide the coffee. He needs to provide the scones.

We're kind of partial to scones around here. So Rob, jump in here, buddy. Here's the thing. You know, I love the fact that you paid off all your debt.

I suspect that in addition to the part apartment living that you've been enjoying and the amenities and the less overhead, you've enjoyed the peace of mind that comes with being unencumbered and having the flexibility there. So I'm hesitant for you to rush back into a bunch of debt, even if it's mortgage debt that's collateralized by a home. But let's talk about kind of where you're at here quickly, because we're going to get short on time. You said you are completely debt free at this point, correct?

Well, I misspoke to your, the person who answered and I apologize for that. We do have some medical debt. And since I don't work, I do have a couple of credit cards that I have used to help with it. So anyway, the basic debt that we owe, not including the medical and that is including the car. The car is $10,000 and we plan on keeping that forever.

And your income sources, your husband's income. Is that right? Yes. Okay. And what do you have in emergency savings? We've got about four to 5,000. Okay. And what do you have saved up for retirement at this point? My husband has, he has an IRA.

He has a bunch of, I don't know, accounts with his, with his company. They're, they're very well taken care of us. Good. Okay. We're going to hit a break. When we come back, I'll give you my thoughts and we'll see if we can make some decisions. We appreciate your call. Hold the line. We're talking with Cindy.

We'll be right back after this. Do you feel like your hands are tied with debt, preventing you from serving God? If you have credit card debt, Christian credit counselors can help. Through our debt management program, we can get you out of credit card debt about 80% faster while honoring your debt in full. For more information on how Christian credit counselors can help visit christiancreditcounselors.org that's christiancreditcounselors.org or call 800-557-1985, 800-557-1985. Many people are experiencing financial challenges such as credit card debt, downsizing, debt in jobs and depleted savings.

In fact, more than half of all divorces are the result of financial pressures at home. But there's hope in Your Money Counts. Biblical financial expert Howard Dayton shows that the Bible is a veritable blueprint for managing your finances and you'll discover the profound impact it has on your relationship with God.

Your Money Counts is available when you click the store button at moneywiselive.org. This is Barry McGuire. I'm a car guy here to help you understand God's purpose for your life through the eyes of a layman. Maybe this is the year you plan to retire and you're looking for something to do, take up your time, a ministry you might do. I talk to many Christians who've recently retired and I ask myself why do people wait until they've given up the influence of their professional life to look for a ministry. No matter where you are right now, you're in full-time ministry. Ministry is not just an add-on to your life, it is your life. Every moment of every day, retired or not, a great influence or not, every person you know and meet will soon stand before God to give an account of their lives and that makes your influence on them hugely important.

You may be the only Christian who stands between heaven and hell for them, orchestrated by God Himself. This is your purpose and they are your mission field. Your job is to ignite revival outside the walls of your church by moving everyone every day closer to Jesus.

For help doing that, go to ROTW.com. How do you reach people who call themselves Christian but don't know Jesus? Find out by reading The Unsaved Christian. Dean Ensera was a cultural Christian. Today, he pastors a thriving church and he wrote this book to offer starting points that lead to deeper conversations. You'll be equipped to confront cultural Christianity and lovingly share the Gospel to the cultural Christians in your life.

Cultural Christianity is a huge mission field in desperate need of missionaries. Get your copy of The Unsaved Christian at moodypublishers.com. Do you feel stuck? Are you tired of going through the motions of faith? Do you want to make real progress in your life but not know where to start? How to Grow is a book to help you grow spiritually and help others grow as well.

We often see the Gospel as the starting point of the Christian life rather than the main point of all life. How to Grow, a new book by Daryl Dash available at moodypublishers.org. That's moodypublishers.org. We've been chatting with Cindy. She's calling us from Chattanooga. She and her husband are debt-free at around age 61. And Rob, any other specifics you want to lay out for us?

Yeah, you know, Cindy, I'm delighted to hear that you applied biblical principles. You really, except for just some medical debt and some other minor debts, you were able to pay off everything by moving from a home that you sold to an apartment. You've enjoyed some of that flexibility and now you're kind of itching to get back into a home that you own, even though you've enjoyed the or excuse me, your husband is even though you're enjoying the apartment living. It sounds like you all are doing pretty well in terms of managing your expenses.

You've got a bit of an emergency fund. It sounds like you're well funded and on track with retirement assets. I guess the question I would have is all things being equal, you know, if you could get into a home and you're comfortable with the lifestyle that comes with that, meaning the additional, you know, expenses, the upkeep of the property, you and your husband have really thought through that. And you've been homeowners before, so you know what that means that you all need to kind of sort through that and make sure that's in fact the direction you want to go. But beyond that, to the financial side, Cindy, I think at the end of the day, it's about do we have the money to put into a down payment?

Because I'd typically like for you to have 20%. So, you know, if you're buying $100,000 home, that's 20,000. As you said, homes, median home prices in Chattanooga, you're saying around 300 or even north of that. So we're talking, you know, 60, $65,000 in the form of a down payment. I don't hear you saying that you have that kind of money to put toward a home. And so what that would mean is that you'd have to get a mortgage of 90% loan to equity or even higher, which means you're going to have private mortgage insurance. And if the real estate market, which has been hot in Chattanooga, like it has in other parts of the country, were to take a downturn in the next five years, you could be upside down in that home. And even though you may just ride it out, I never like for you to be in that position. So I'm not hearing that you have the money to make me totally comfortable at this season of life for you to take on another, you know, large mortgage without having a sizable down payment. Have I missed anything or do you have any thoughts on that?

No, I mean, I am completely agree. I'm not sure about the savings. My husband has some equity in other things that I don't really know about at the moment, but he has always said that, hey, if we found the home that matches our lifestyle, we would be fine.

But knowing that things break, things are always, you know, something's going to happen and with us getting sick, you know, up and up with our age, I just don't like the idea of having and if God forbid, if something happened to my husband. So I know that in the past, renting was strictly for going to like from one place to another college kids. But I think renting has become a different lifestyle in some cases.

And that's what I was wanting. Yeah, you know, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with renting by any means. I think, you know, if you're going to buy and obviously, I'd love for you to be building an equity equity in something and I'd love for you to benefit from the appreciation that's has happened and will happen in the future. You know, there is additional expense and burdens that come with that and you have to count the cost. And so there's nothing wrong with renting necessarily, if that's the best thing for you financially.

It sounds to me though, Cindy, that you would really benefit from a financial planner that could come alongside you and your husband be a kind of a neutral third party, a godly person who understands biblical principles of finance, to help you get a handle on what do you have for retirement? And will that cover your lifestyle in that season? And where would a home fit into this?

And where would the down payment come from? And, you know, are you on track ahead or behind? And what about your spending plan and just kind of giving you really an objective perspective on where you're at. So I'm going to recommend you take that next step before you do anything because I think that'll answer a lot of these questions. And the way you find a CKA there in Chattanooga, and there's some wonderful ones, just go to MoneyWiseLive.org and click the button that says find a CKA. I hope that helps. Cindy, God bless. Thank you very much. Quickly to Euclid, Ohio, WCRF and Temi. Thanks so much for bearing with us.

What's your question? Thank you for picking my call. My question is, I have a mortgage. I pay $9.85 a month.

And I can afford to pay additional $500 a month. But at the same time, I love investing in stocks. So I'm thinking I should rather be putting that money in stocks.

But I just want to get your own perspective. Should I add the money to the, to the mortgage or should I be buying stocks? Yeah. So Temi, when you do your budget and all the bills are paid and you've got, you paid your mortgage and food and you know, all the expenses you have fixed and discretionary, what I'm hearing is you have an additional $500 a month available.

Is that right? Yes. Okay. And do you have an emergency fund, Temi? I, just a small amount, like I only have like $2,000. I put multiple of my money in stocks actually. I see.

Okay. Well, I'd love for you to have at least three months expenses in a liquid savings account. And I realize you're not going to earn a lot on that, probably a half a point with an online savings account. But that's money that's available that the market was down and I realize it's been going up for a while here with the exception of last March.

You know, if we got into a bear market, I wouldn't want you to have to sell out of stocks that were down in value just for you to cover an unexpected expense. But once you get your savings up to three months, then I think you've got to look at whether you're on track for retirement. If you're not, meaning if you're not on pace to save what you feel like you need to fund your lifestyle and your expenses in retirement, then I would prioritize that first because that long term savings compounding and a tax deferred environment is really going to be, you know, an important piece of your long term savings.

If you feel like you're on track with that, and if you need some help with that, a certified kingdom advisor there in Ohio could help you make that determination. Then I love the idea of you accelerating the mortgage payoff. But if you're not, I would prioritize retirement over the mortgage acceleration.

You know, just all things being equal. Tell me, we often recommend our good friends at Soundmind Investing. If you're looking for a primer when it comes to doing some investing on Wall Street, stocks, bonds, things like that long term. They have a number of wonderful resources. You can check them out at soundmindinvesting.org.

You might want to look into that soundmindinvesting.org. And thank you very much. Morris, Illinois. Hey, Mike, what's your question today for Rob West? Hey, how are you doing? Great. Thanks, Mike.

Thanks. I got, my father-in-law told me something just recently, but anyway, I got 401k and I have both options of Roth and the pre-tax, right, after-tax, pre-tax. And my father-in-law was telling me that the Roth, you know, it's not like that great of a deal, not so much the Roth. He was saying that what I'm getting taxed on now, if I make 80,000 a year, he's saying that I'm getting taxed on 80,000 a year versus like when I pull it out when I retire, I'm only going to be taxed on a little bit that I'm taking out. So I was under the assumption that like, see, they're taking a hundred dollars out for each one of them, the pre and after-tax. I was assuming that they were taxing that a hundred dollars now for the Roth and the other hundred will get taxed when I take it out.

Am I confused on that? He's talking about I'm getting taxed 80 for 80,000. Yeah, I think what he's talking about, Mike, is, you know, when you make a Roth contribution, it's after-tax dollars that's going in. So you're earning the money, you're paying tax on the income that you earn now, which arguably is potentially higher than what your income is going to be in retirement. And then you're funding your retirement account with after-tax dollars that then grow tax-free and you pull out the money you've put in plus all the gains without any taxes on any of it in retirement. So as long as time is on your side, even though you might be in a higher bracket today, if you've got a considerable amount of time for that money inside the Roth, a 401k or Roth IRA to grow on a tax-free basis, you're still going to do very well in retirement being able to take out all those gains without paying any income tax on the withdrawals because you paid it on the contribution going in.

But there is something to be said about having both buckets available. And so I like the idea of you either funding a traditional 401k and a Roth IRA or splitting if you have this option your contributions and your company sponsored plan between the traditional 401k and the Roth 401k. Because when you get to that season of life in retirement, who knows what the tax rates will be, right? That's going to be a couple of presidential administrations from now and Congress is going to turn over and our tax rate is going to be considerably higher than they are today, possibly. So even though you're earning less, you still may be paying more in taxes because we don't know what the tax structure is going to look like. So I'd like the idea of you being able to pick and choose in that season of life which account is going to be the most tax advantaged for you, whether that's pulling from the tax-free growth in the Roth or pulling on the pre-tax traditional IRA and then paying on it as income, paying tax on it as income at withdrawal. Does that make sense though?

Yes, yes it does. That's what I thought. I thought the taxes are going to be, are probably never going to go lower in the future. So that's why I feel like it's better to do Roth.

Or because of the uncertainty, yeah, you could do both. But I like the Roth, especially if time is on your side. I think Senator Roth had it right when he came up with that. So hey, we appreciate your call today.

We do indeed. Thank you very much, Mike. You're listening to MoneyWise Live, but we're going to have to put a bow on it for today. We are almost out of time. So our thanks to you for being there and for joining us. We'll be back tomorrow. Hope you will as well. Give us a call then if we can help you. 800-525-7000. MoneyWise Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and MoneyWise Media. My thanks to our technical crew today, Chris P, Gabby T, Dan A, and of course none other than Jim Henry in charge of doing all of our biblical research and in charge of taking down all the Christmas decorations. He's halfway there. Have a great remainder of your day. Join us again next time.